Stuart: You're right that the ballot lists a party affiliation next to the name, but the fonts are all pretty small. I could see it confusing somebody.

I've seen James Green's bus. It is rather large and impressive for such a minor, independent candidate.

This definitely presents a communications challenge for Jim's team. I would probably get my phone bank volunteers to stress the difference to confirmed supporters, and maybe do a small pamphlet in the predominant non-English languages stressing JIM and VISION.

I think alphabetical is the only fair way to go. Listing the parties at the top unfairly penalizes independent candidates. Better to be discriminated against because your last name ends with a letter late in the alphabet! (Hey, candidates could always change their name. Next thing you know there will be a lot of Aardvarks in the race!)

Where's Mr. Peanut in this race? At least we could tell him apart! Really, is Greene's election bid so shaky, that an independanr Greene will glean his votes?

Netter get out and do some real door knocking!

Saw the James Green campaign bus today for a heartbeat.

Damn! This guy has a cmapaign bus!

Anything that'll keep the lunatics from running the asylum for another three years is good with me.

Of course James Green will steal votes from Jim Green.

Why, unless they sell bridges, is anyone suggesting James Green's entry into this election race anything but a put up scheme to target Jim Green?

I think darcy.mcgee comes closest to expressing the true sentiments behind James Green's campaign in his last sentance above.

Although, obviously, ol'darc' isn't likely to paint it in such clear hues.

It is a desperate effort by the right-wing to try to rob Jim Green of votes.

Unfortunately, the truth behind this sick perversion of the democratic process will not likely be fully understood until months after the election.

One more reason for clear, manditory rules that ensure the public knows who is financing political campaigns at the municipal level where, sadly developers try to buy their way into influence with far more success than any ordinary taxpayer could ever hope to achieve.

Why should anyone financing political campaigns get to hide that activity from the voters?

Is it about democracy or the right of the wealthy to exercize extra powers?

I could imagine certain times in history when such attacks on democracy might have prompted a local tar and feathering party.

I don't suggest that for James Green, but rather for the money bags hiding behind him.

It's quite disgusting, folks will make the mistake. Older folks, people in a hurry, people with weak English
skills. Very fishy to me,

They should have the main parties at the top of the ballot with the Party names clearly marked in large print. If they for example put Jim and James names next to each other their will be huge #'s of voter miss haps. We already know Sammy has the Wal Mart communications rep running his campaign, I don't put it past him. I say we work hard to get the east end vote out, we cannot let the NPA back into city hall.

Why would anyone think there is Big Money behind James Green because of one campaign bus? Compared to Jim and Sam's billboards, signs, elaborate campaign flyers and TV commercials one bus doesn't seem so expensive.

Has anybody noticed how much the media is just focusing on Jim And Sam? How else would an independant candidate who is serious about running for mayor get the attention and votes?

If James Green really wanted to confuse voters he would have stayed with the name Jim Green and not decided to use James instead.He has been on the street meeting people everyday and at various events. If he was planning to confuse voters he would just stay home and not show that he definitely is not Jim Green.

If anybody read the Whole article, you would see that he knocks Sam as well as Jim.

I don't see any conspiracy here, just alot of people looking for drama that doesn't exist.

Yeah, Jim mentioned to me that he was having a bus for the final week and a half at one of the debates. After he got turfed from the Plaza, he was looking for something.

But really, this guys got it made, I mean, half of Vancouver knows about James Green, and even if it cost him 10K for the campaign, whatever business endevour he goes into next, will surely prove good on is ROI.

I applaud Sam's story and agree that some voters may be confused between the names James and Jim Green. But surely the Party affiliation Addendum to Jim Green's name will settle matters--except perhaps for a few non-Englishs peaking voters.

As an Aside, I must say that it is distressing that some posters think that James Green is a fraud or an NPA front man. Sam Cooper did not mention in his story that James Green has previously served in public office in the Municipality of Delta. He served one term there as a school trustee in the late 1980's and early 1990's, I believe. So, as far as I know, he is probably a legitimate candidate. Its time to put the conspiracy theories to rest and just tell voters in Vancouver to vote for the Green with the "Vision Vancouver" text. Simple.

This might be a tad off topic, but all this talk of people voting for the wrong person reminded me of something.
I used to live in Australia a number of years ago, and was rather suprised to find out that voting there is mandatory. Appearently not voting results in heavy fines being levied against you and tacked on to your income tax, so obviously voter turnout is extremely high.
Be that as it may, a large portion of the people who turn up to vote are only there to avoid the fine and could care less about who they vote for. Quite often the winner of the election is the person whose name appears at the top of the ballot, as people simply vote for the first name they see. The order of the names on the ballot is selected randomly (I guess far too many people with last names beginning with the letter "A" were getting elected), so anyone (or thing) running has a pretty good chance of winning if their name is selected to be first on the ballot.
As a result, A dog, a camel and a dead man have all been elected in previous Australian elections.
Just thought I'd share that anecdote.

Dangrice, please don't run that tired old exageration out to try to downplay your friend's obvious game plan.

I would suspect that a clearly non-partesan poll would show the majority of Vancouverites haven't got a clue who James Green is and that a strong minority would identify him as Jim Green.

Your friend has yet to refute the original stories about his somewhat shaky business and financial history.

I'm glad that he told you beforehand that he was going to take the bus, but then I'm amazed if you had all this info on his plans you didn't share any of it with Tyee readers who have been discussing "James" Green for the past month.

The long and the short of it is: James Green's name is almost identical to that of front runner Jim Green;
James Green was given financial support from business people who also have ties to Sam Sullivan even if, on paper, they are only business ties;

James Green is high-profiling himself in neighbourhoods such a Chinatown where his campaign bus tells a lot of people who haven't English as a first language that he's the Mr. Green running for mayor.

Sorry dangrice, but your Mr. Green smells too much like the easter bunny, Santa Claus and others in that long list of characters otherwise grown-up people like to trot out to baffle the young ones when bit of hoodwinking has been prescribed.

Note to robm, while I too have some problems with the way Australians run their elections and support facist American war-mongers (can't miss an opportunity), I do suggest your animal crackers election results are probably an urban myth.

Ooh, ahh, Allan. All I suggested is that James Green is an opportunist, and if he was really looking to get elected, he would have ran for council.

And yes, I found out about the Van about two weeks ago, when I attended a mayoral debate at the round house. The conversation went like this. Me: So I heard they kicked you out of your office. So what are you doing now. JG2: "Oh, we're getting a bus for the final weeks". Me: "Cool."

Vision's worst fears about the "James Green factor" have unfortunately come to pass.
In future elections, if NPA again has the benefit of a diversionary name on the ballot, Vision/Cope will have every right to do likewise, and recruit a "Sam Sullivan 2" , or whomever just to level the field and ensure democracy is served.

This mayor's race was stolen. Enough Jim Green supporters were tricked by "James Green" on the ballot, to give Sullivan an illegitimate win.
This election was as disgraceful as many 3rd world election "wins".

I'm quite sure that James Green did siphon away votes from Jim Green, from voters who are too uninformed, careless or illiterate to have made the correct choice.

I think the problem goes beyond whether this mayoralty election is illegitimate, but whether all democratic elections are similarly vulnerable.

It makes no sense to me that uninformed, careless and/or illiterate people contribute as much to the democratic process as, say, Allan.

How about a skill testing question before counting the vote? A simple quadratic equation ought to weed out the moron factor.

Many voters are "too uninformed, careless or illiterate to make the correct choice", judging by the number who voted for Sullivan...

But it is sad, and frustrating, and infuriating that in the end the election was decided by the James Green ploy, rather than by the issues and the true democratic will of the voters. My mother inadvertently voted for James Green, when she meant to vote for Jim Green, and she does not fall under any of Yammer's pejoratives. If she could make that mistake, then many others (over 4000?)could (and did) do the same.

I agree that the source of candidates' financing should be open to the public, and I also agree that this election was stolen - it is a disgrace.

Also, I would point out that "James" was initially running as "Jim", until the electoral officials persuaded him to run as James, so that is not an indicator of his good intentions.

Allan - where did you get the information that James Green was financed by people with a business connection to Sullivan? I don't know why that information has not been reported more widely.

Well, the argument could be made that Jim Green stole 57,000 votes from James Green.

Yes, I'm being sarcastic (Mentioned before the resident right trolls backed me up on that)

Well, I'm James Green's brother and I find the fact that he was running as "Jim Green" until persuaded to run as "James Green" quite disturbing, too. I'm also a bit cynical about his criticism of Jim Green for being a draft dodger. I'm surprised that he would condemn Jim Green for not going to Vietnam. I would have thought he would have given him at least as much slack as we both gave Cassius Clay for refusing to fight the Viet Cong.

To "Truman Green" :
First of all James Green wasn't "persuaded" to change his name from Jim Green at all. As his brother, you should know that his given name is James Green but he has used the name Jim most of his life and decided to run as James again to make it easier for voters to tell the two Greens apart. Secondly Cassius Clay was against the war but didn't run to Canada. He stayed and fought for what he believed in. James Green is not a supporter of the war his criticism of Jim Green is that he ran away instead of staying in his country and fighting for what he believes in. Maybe you should get your facts straight. Are you just upset for being the lesser known Green? I find it funny you would write into a forum such as this and be critical of your own brother.

Well, Jo Jo, whoever you are, I think my facts are pretty straight on this issue. I have read that Jimmy was persuaded by the elections people to change his name to "James" for the purposes of the election. If this is true it seems that he was willing to run in the election using an identical name as the other Jim Green, which would have created a situation in which the voters would be even far more confused than they already were. As far as it being "funny" that I would criticize my own brother, I've criticized everything and everyone else I've found undeserving of my support. As far as me being "upset for being the "lesser known Green, uh, no, I'm not upset at all --I suppose you mean jealous-- and I would have loved a situation in which I would have been able to support Jimmy in running for mayor. This is not such a situation. And, Jo Jo, speaking about names, do you think you could let us know yours.

Well "Truman" elections people cannot persuade a candidate to change their names for the ballot. You are ill informed. IS this a swipe at "Jimmy" because you have been unsuccessful in everything you have done ie. your book. Also, perhaps you have some problem with your younger brother actully becoming a successful teacher when you were only capable of being a marker at Queen Elizabeth High School. Don't you live in Surrey? Who cares if you support James or not? From what I understand you haven't spoken to your family for many years so its funny you have now fallen out of the woodwork to criticize your younger brother. Maybe if you had been around James you would know the real story and not have to result to pathetic tactics. I don't believe James's real brother would be this mean spirited so you tell me your REAL name and I will tell you mine.

And furthermore, Jo Jo, I wasn't disputing Jimmy's real name. It's James Carl Green. He's been known as Jim Green all of his life. As far as the Cassius Clay thing, I will admit that Jimmy might actually believe that the other Jim Green is a coward, or less than honourable etc. for coming to Canada--but I doubt it. My personal belief is that soldiers who refuse to fight in a dishonourable and stupid war are heroes and not cowards--and the fact that they might have been convicted for dodging the draft wouldn't change my assessment. I might have been projecting my own beliefs on to Jimmy, but only he knows the answer to that.

Yeah didn't think so "Truman Green" I think its sad you would pretend to be mayoral candidate James Green's brother just to get some attention. Whoever you are, get a life.

Well, Jo Jo. You do seem to know a bit about me so I think you know I'm really Jimmy's brother. I admit it was a real problem for me deciding if I would comment on this situation, but I've come to the conclusion that I should. If you check the archives of the Tyee, you'll find that I've commenting at least a hundred times on other issues. I find your suggestions about my own success or failure a bit strange. Suffice to say I'm a roaring success--at least in my own eyes. As far as "who cares if I support Jim or not", YOU certainly seem to, but I also admit that perhaps noone else does. You seem to be a friend or relative of Jim's. I'm sure it would be easy for you to find out if I'm really Jim's brother or not. As far as "falling out of the woodwork to get some attention"--NOT. I think Jimmy's entrance into the race was extremely disgusting, and I'm criticizing him for it because I think it's morally appropriate. We all have to live with ourselves tomorrow, and I hope you are guided in your criticism of me by your own moral standards. Personally, since I've shot my mouth off about everyone else on this site, it would have been a bit much if I shut up because Jimmy's my brother. And what "pathetic tactics" am I using? I'm criticizing my brother, under my REAL name, realizing that few will applaud me for doing so.

Blah Blah Blah. . .Whatever pal.

Truman Green is a real name. And a real good Tyee commentator.

Yammer thanks for that. I haven't been back to this thread for a long time and didn't see it at the time it appeared. Yeah, James is my little brother, alright.

Wow, this story has been open for comment since November 15, 2005. Now I'm curious about the criteria for closing.