Why should we be grateful that this election campaign has been hijacked by an emotional, junk science issue like this ?
I know that there are zero potential tourists sitting in California discussing Victoria's secondary sewage treatment.
Typical Victoria enviro-fraud BS.
Please vote for people that are not using this non issue to score political points.
If you do, you are a sucker.

"If you do, you are a sucker."

Thanks Ron. Always nice to read a concise and reasoned point of view;-P

Ron Erwin,

If not in California, certainly in the state of Washington.

Should the sewage situation remain as is, a whiff of poetic justice emerges since dumping on Canada seems a continuing sport for many U.S. horse-traders and politicians.

Correction

If not in California, certainly in the state of Washington there will be dicussion.

Ask anyone in Walkerton Ont if treating environmental issues is important. (if anyone cares to remember 11 folks died and 100's were air lifted to hospitals due to the ecoli in the drinking water) Hard to imagine that in BC the so called tree huggers province we have 1000's of tons of untreated sewage being dumped everyday. What's even harder to imagine
is that we are considering not doing anything about it due to some cost numbers being thrown around to scare taxpayers, we are a rich country and if taking care of our natural environment aka our long term health is not a priority then I don't know what is.
First of all lets get some estimates folks , lets compare different models of treatment and decide what is the mostcost effective way. Or are we just relying on one estimate from one group. If so I have some swamp land I need to sell you.
2) Lets consider our priorities as a province, what's more important a 2 billion dollar Rav line or a speed skating oval in Richmond or clean water on our coast.
3) Lets consider the cost of doing nothing in the long term, Potential law suits( just wait for class actions to come if residents in WA start to get sick) Decline is sea life, decline in standard of living etc. Did anyone know that a dead Killer Whale is considered hazardous wastes because its so filled with PCB's ,
4) consider cost sharing, why is it the entire province that has to pay for say a RAV line but only Vitoria that pays for clean water on our coast. We should all pitch in for major projects etc. Have the private sector step up , their is an extra hotel tax in Victoria now that is helping to pay for the new convention center, so why not have a corporate tax for this upgrade, what's more important a convention center or clean water.

Anyway I'm sick of scare tactics, lets just be responsible and get the job done.
OH Ron your such a silly boy, if its all BS please provide your address so we can truck the sewage to your area for disposal.

Not to mention our international reputation is doing down the toilet( pun intended) I was on a whale watching tour last summer, we had tourist from over 22 countries on board. The guide was doing a presentation explaining
why we should have good habits when it comes to our natural world etc, one tourist asked if its true we don't treat out sewage and just dump it. Well you can image the response, OH Gross, one kid laughed and said mommy do they actually swim in their poo. I wish I taped that moment. Canada Nation that can't afford proper sewage treatment,

People shouldn't have to chose between healthcare and sewage disposal.

I also question CRD's so-called figures, evidence and experts.

Recently the CRD staff examined privatizing Salt Spring Island's home grown Community Recycle facilty and installing a blue box program,which no one wanted, that would have involved a number of trucks operated by a CRD subcontractor.

In order to convince locals that this was a good thing a $20,000 CRD review of the existing community run Recycle facilty was undertaken.

The CRD straff produced incorrect figures to support their agenda and the expensive Consultants report fell into disrepute when a copy complete with CRD staff corrections surfaced.

Needless to say, this whole fiasco has been abandoned and damage control is now the order of the day.

Expert opinions are just that, opinions, and they are becoming a commodity, just
like any other. After all why would anyone pay for an expert's report that wouldn't support their position?

Don't people in Victoria care about the health of their waters? Don't they want to eat local seafood anymore?

What Americans are saying about Canada,
Just a tidbit...Please point our any flaws in the argument.

"For those of you heading to Canada, here's something for your to-do list...get Canada to stop dumping raw sewage into its rivers, lakes, and oceans. The Victoria BC area alone dumps over 26 million gallons of raw sewage into the Pacific Ocean each day; it's a supposedly modern city that lacks a sewage treatment plant. Victoria screens the sewage to keep the bigger solids (from grit to man-made things) out of the water, and it makes industrial activities like dry cleaners capture their hazardous wastes on site. But as for the domestic waste, Victoria believes the ocean has plenty of capacity to absorb the sewage and has no plans to change. Little wonder the orcas in the Lower Georgia Straight are amongst the most contaminated mammals on the planet. And how about those salmon passing through..."

There is something that appears to have been overlooked in this commentary. What about the concentrated sewage sludge that is created by a treatment plant? Treatment plants don't simply make all that nasty stuff dissapear. Sewage treatement plants tend to clean up the liquid portion making it safer to dump (especially into smaller systems such as rivers or lakes), but they also concentrate the solids which will inevitably contain concentrated portions of all those nasty chemicals we pour down our drains. What then happens to these concentrated, toxic solids? Sewage treatment plants, especially secondary treatment plants, are not able to remove or breakdown many of the harsh chemicals we dump down our drains. Usually they just get dumped into a land fill somewhere which can cause even more environmental distress than dumping the more dilute untreated sewage into a system such as Juan de Fuca straight where it will be further diluted and flushed out to sea (given a long enough outfall pipe).

Aren't there some jurisdictional issues here? Sewage treatment is a municipal responsibility, but health care is funded by the province. Would implementing sewage treatment directly impact the funds available for health care? Would choosing not to treat sewage actually result in more money being spent on hospitals and long-term care? Are the citizens being presented with a false either/or proposition?

I remember reading articles a few years ago where somebody had suggested that Victoria install a number of windmills on the coast to gernerate environmenatlly friendly power. That suggestion was rejected, because it was an eyesore.
Dump your raw sewage into the ocean, no problem, nobody can see, therefore it isn't a problem. Super Natural BC, my foot!

Typical market economy garbage, measuring everything in artificial, imaginary, monetary terms.

How long can humanity put hundreds of chemicals into the environment, including the residues from billions of birth control pills into the environment, before it collapses. The ocean and wildlife is already badly damaged, not to mention the human race, filled with profitable poisons.

I would like to see the dear doctor put a monetary figure on the costs of the degenerated humanity and ecology a few generations down the line, while banks are prouducing billions of dollars more funny money every day, to increase the damage, while calling it "investment".

Ed Deak, Big Lake.

Stuart, let me respond
1. there are no health risks. This has been studied for years by UVIC and many other scientists. Thre is zero proclem here.
2. We have clean water on our coast.
3. The cost of doing nothing is nothing.
4. cost sharing, hey I got an idea, why don't you pay for it all if it's that big of a deal for you, don't ask me to pay for something so stupid.
Exactly who is using scare tactics. It's the proponents of this goofy scheme who want to make it a political football.
This happens at every municipal election, whre have you been ?
How else can we deal with this but with scientific measurements ?
What a joke.

I bet the crabs and other shellfish are nice, fat, and juicy around the outfall! Let's feed some to Ron!

Since dealing with excrement is such an indelicate topic, I feel the vast majority is content to, as it were, just flush it away. In doing this, we have, quite possibly, left ourselves vulnerable to a multi-billion dollar boondoggle.

The skeptical councillor who came up with "There's no planning, just deals." probably had something like this in mind.

There are chemical toilets that produce compost. More could be done to seperate bath, sink and washing machine water (brown water) from what is normally flushed from the toilet bowl.

Where jobs and bureaucracy are concerned, there are some not interested in alternate solutions.

I would love to see the professor that claims putting raw sewage into the ocean has no health effects, the cost of doing nothing will be huge in long term heath of sea life aka humans in the area. Most summers in Ont have swimming advisories due to high levels of bacteria caused by local pig farmers dumping untreated manure, we also had the Walkerton tragedy etc, being cheap never pays. You will always have those who prefer to do nothing when it comes to spending money. (they will always quote studies that support their point of view)

Check out the research data
"Tests on sewage in the Vancouver/Victoria area showed the presence of mercury, lead, chromium and copper along with organochlorine compounds and hydrocarbons. The sewage also contained PCBs and PAHs, substances know to cause mutations and cancer in humans and wildlife. The discharge of these elements is putting people at risk through both direct contact with contaminated water and through eating contaminated shellfish or fish that have bioaccumlated toxins in their bodies. The long-term impacts on human health from this exposure are of grave concern. "

Of course our sewage contains all those nasty ingredients Staurt mentions above.
What doesn't ? Our own bodies contain these items.
The question is, at what levels ? This method of spinning junk science is what reduces credibility in eco-frauds.
We are not that stupid to swallow a statement like ' Cranberry juice contains lead, amd lead contributes to liver failure "
You have to have scientific facts and measurements to back up your argument.
It's kinda like the sea lice fiasco.
Or worse KYOTO ( may she rest in peace ).

To hear the Medical Officer of Health for the Vancouver Island Health Authority say that sewage treament is unnecessary in Victoria, is an absolute outrage.

The fact is that most of the beaches in the CRD are often closed to swimming. Shellfish are contaminated and inedible, and the plume goes all the way up Vancouver Island.

We are not talking about secondary treatment for Victoria. We are talking about primary treatment. That is the term used everywhere on earth for primary treatment which allows 90% of the solids to settle out. Secondary treatment takes out about 99% of the solids. Victoria's system is not even primary in nature. It is just a big pipe.

Ultimately, it does not matter what the people of Victoria think about this issue. It is the perception of the rest of the world that counts.

I had the singular experience of taking a boat trip down the Fraser River a couple of years ago, with a writer for the National Geographic. For the whole trip all we could smell was sewage. There we were, at the mouth of the largest sockeye salmon river in the world, and all we could think about was the smell. What do you think his perception was? Do you think he went home thinking about how clean the air was in Vancouver?

I believe it was in 1993 that three medical conventions booked for Victoria were cancelled at the last moment, when the organisers learned that Victoria does not treat its sewage. Those three conventions alone were worth at least $1 million each. How many more conventions are cancelled before they even get booked?

It is a national disgrace that the capital city of BC is still in the 19th Century with regards to sewage treatment. If Nanaimo can afford primary treatment, Victoria can too. Suck it up Victorians.

I remember hearing that every municipality in BC was to have secondary sewage treatment by 2000 A.D. That was five years ago and it still hasn't happened.

If anyone doubts the technical capacity for sewage treatment, go to Calgary, where they have primary, secondary and teritiary treatment. They may have the best system in Canada, feeding effluent water into the Bow River that is balanced for nitrogen and phosphorus, to maintain the World-class trout fishery downstream. It works there and it should work here too.

I agree that this shouldn't be an election issue. It shouldn't be an issue at all. It should have been done 50 years ago.

Shame on Victoria. Shame on British Columbia, and shame on Canada for allowing this state of affairs to continue. Mr. Floatie is being altogether too delicate in his campaign to get Victoria to clean up its act. He should be spreading the word south of the border.

Matter of fact, hasn't the tourist trade gone down in Victoria over the last few years? I wonder why.

Calgary dumps their sewage into a tiny river. This is no comparison to the Pacific Ocean.
I also don't buy the 'perception' argument.
Does anyone have any numbers to support the argument to support the tourist argument ? I doubt it. Lets say 1000 tourists didn't come to Victoria each year because they were alarmed at our lack of sewage treatment. If every tourist dropped $1,000.00 per year, that would be 1 million dollars in sales ( not profits )
Just how long would it take to justify spending money on this project ? 300 years ? If the only justification is perception, I say forget about it.
Mr. Floatie should be flushed out to sea with all the other turds. What an idiot.

BULLSHIT ALERT!
Be advised that all postings from Ron Erwin are highly contaminated with fecal matter. After retiring from the Honeymooners as Ed Nortons stunt double, Ron moved to the peaceful city of Victoria. Ron swims, eats, drinks and plays in the local waters of the Juan de Fuca. Ron is living proof that there is a direct link between sewage dumping and toxic human poisoning. Health authorities should consider condemning him as hazardous material.

Did anyone listen to the CBC Victoria edition, this morning as the subject of sewers was being discussed? Seems one guy had a letter from the fed. to the CRD which had a different slant on it than the good doctor had. I missed a lot of the discussions as I was due somehwere. But the two or three citizens were telling us that the so called science is not that sound in their argument that the sewer doesn't bother anyone

One wonders if anyone has looked at the Hyroxil systems developed for some places around the country? Could they use a coupoe of them in this tiny littel city?

This area of the world is full of wonderful sewer stories. North and Central Saanich spend around 38 millions on a system but a great number of houses in the top of the pensinsula wern't hooked up. This was almost ten years ago. They still have septic fields and the deal is, the pump them out and haul the stuff to the sewer plant just out of Sidney. One of the subject up for discussion for the North Saanich council election, as we write.My oh my do we like to save some money.

For someone who likes to toss around the term "jun science" as though he has the goods, Ron Erwin should do a little research before posting his fecal matter to this site, or any other site for that matter. Calgary wastewater is treated. Calgary sewage is treated in three stages, and the solids are then treated in anaerobic digesters, and then in treatment lagoons, whereafter the water is returned for further treatment, and the biosolids, now

Sorry, hot the wrong button...

I reiterate and continue...

Calgary sewage is treated in three stages, and the solids are then treated in anaerobic digesters, and then in treatment lagoons, whereafter the water is returned for further treatment, and the biosolids, now
suitable for use as organic fertilizer. As was noted earlier by Fish-Counter. Too bad Erwin has to resort to inaccuracy to make an incorrect point. But I for one do not expect any better from Ron.

And sorry about the spelling. I should really settle down before I respond to RE, or Elliot for that matter.

Mr. Erwin:
Sewage treatment is a matter of hygeine. If the people of Victoria won't do it for themselves, perhaps they would do it for the rest of us, or for the memory of the man to whom we all owe so much, Mr. Thomas Crapper.

skeptikoll:

Why not just direct it into your neighbour's backyard? It will provide food for worms and whatnot.......

Ron Erwin:

It's not the "tourist argument, nor is it the health of the local populace argument. It is simply "the right thing to do", like recycling, or like NOT dumping one's "night soil" into the street (as it was a mere few hundred years ago).

Oh, let's not compare Walkerton to the dumping of raw sewage into the ocean; the two have no comparison, and you do a deep injustice to the people who died in Walkerton.

Dumping raw sewage is just wrong: as a society, we need to decide on what a reasonable zone of environmental responsibiliy is, and stick to it. Should each house have to deal with 100% of its own footprint? Each village? Each city?

Toronto trucks its garbage to another country, and ignores a problem of its own making.

Victoria dumps its raw sewage into the ocean, which does not belong to Victoria but rather the world. Halifax does the same.

Pick a zone, and live up to it. The "100 Mile Diet" story is one potential manifestation of this; keep your garbage, your water consumption, your recycling all within 100 miles of your home if you can. It's not possible in Toronto, where that distance barely gets you from one end of suburbia to another; it's a town that has non-sustainability built into it.

It's still possible for Victoria to do this; do it now, before population growth makes it harder.

I'm not saying Victoria shouldn't treat its sewage, so in the interests of contaminated marine mammals, I wonder: does primary treatment remove mercury, lead, chromium, copper, organochlorine compounds, hydrocarbons, PCBs or PAHs? Does secondary treatment? Does tertiary treatment?

Interesting how we seem to be saying that our options are limited by economics again, - we can either provide better health care or treat our effluent.

However there is no relationship between economics and nature, so the ideology of economics is an ecological dead end.

The question is how far down this branch can we go before it snaps off?

No commentary movement earlier today, but after a short feeding frenzy I see the usual diarrhea is starting to flow. Perhaps Tyee could install a bullshit filter! Too alimentary?

KWD:

Perhaps we could start by pulling obvious flame-bait such as your drivel? What do you think?

darcy.mcgee

I see many comparisons to the Walkerton tragedy here, the Walkerton deaths were caused by ecoli getting into the water supply. The water was contaminated by untreated sewage from pig farms mainly and from leaking septic systems also. It was also economics that came into play, The Harris government in an attempt to cut costs privatized the water treatment facilities in more rural areas, at the hearings
the manager of the water facility broke down and cried and said he really does not think he had the background and skills to do the job property.

As a society we only seem to act or think we should do something once tragedy strikes, anyway just my 2 cents.

Monetary games and costs are not economics and economic actions can not be measured with present monetary figures.

Especially since bank deregulations, which permits them to create money out of the air for the benefit of a special interest sector, while transferring the liabilities of money creation on the environment and society at large, with the cooperation of governments.

Costs can not be cut, only transferred on other sectors.

Victoria's sewage mess is a good example of this cost transfer. Also the untreated sewage of umpteen municipalities along the Fraser, because they "can't afford treatment", while the multinational carpetbaggers are taking incredible benefits out of the province and country.

One of these days the human race will have to come to grips with the sordid fact that its survival can not be decided by imaginary figures loaded into computers by a class of international thieves.

Ed Deak, Big Lake.

Wallace; read the postings before the one of mine you are critical of. I know that Calgary treats their sewage. I was making the point that you cannot compare a small river to the ocean. Get your facts straight please. Read everything before you blab off.

Stuart, please don't spread information again. Walkerton's water system was not privatized. It was under public control. The only thing that was private was the testing facilities.
The people in the PRIVATE testing facility did their job. They continually reported bad news to the PUBLIC employees. The PUBLIC employees didn't listen and people died.
2 cents ir right. You are always misinforming people. Why ?

Halifax is in the process of building three sewage treatment plants, as the residents there realized the negative impacts of flushing everything out to sea.

The solids will be processed into a commercial fetilzer.

Come on Victoria, your turn.

crh' I don't know how far out to sea the Halifax outfall goes or what the tide conditions are, do you ?
What negative impacts did they realize ?
How much Federal money is being contibuted ?
The Liberal Party of Canada will do almost anything to bribe The Maritime people to vote Liberal. It's more important to them now than ever.
It's kind of like the Conferderation Bridge the feds built to PEI ( a population the size of Saanich )Blatant vote buying.

I am not sure what Ron Erwin has against municipal waste treatment, but he seems to very sensitive about it. It is almost a fetish you could say.

It would be a shame if Victoria's liquid waste treatment were decided in a court of law. It is conceivable that the city be taken to court for dumping deleterious substances into the ocean. Sewage does contain a cocktail of toxins, and the Strait of Juan de Fuca is fish habitat. It is highly doubtful that DFO would lay charges, but in theory, any member of the public could do that. As is well known, the Sierra Club did file a complaint against the GVRD. The case was taken over by Crown Counsel and buried, but the precedent was set.

If charges were laid against the CRD, the complainant would have to name all the regulatory agencies and Crown Counsel in the complaint,charging them with dereliction of duty.

Don't worry, it won't happen. Such a case would be too difficult to prove, unless and until there is a Walkerton-scale disaster.

"Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof".

I don't have the article at hand, so must go by memory.

I'm sure the doctor under attack would love to have Greater Victoria's sewage treated so that the costs would be supplemented by power production and that the process leave only clean water and a commercial fertilizer.

But, is he not asking whether the area is being taken to the cleaners on the cost?

That article I referred to mentioned the filling-in of the Canadian half of a small tunnel that straddled the Canada/U.S. border.
The tunnel had allegedly been used for drug-smuggling. The article mention a $30,000 cost to close that illegal entry.

I recall no one questioning that cost. I feel that taxpayer-paid charge as worthy of investigation as the drug-smuggling.

Interesting spin Ronnie. While your statement is technically correct, it really paints a very narrow assessment of the situation. That the water testing system was the only privatized part of the system is true. That they properly tested the contaminated water and properly reported their finding is true. That the water system itself was public is true. That most of the fault lies with the managers due their unbelievable negligence is true. BUT

Your neo-conservative heroes, Ontario version, severely cut funding in areas where human life was affected. But even this isn’t the area of most concern. The Harris government introduced a policy to reduce red tape. One aspect of this was to eliminate accountability for private firms doing business for the government. That means that any regulation that would have resulted in an efficient and effective plan when problems arise was practically eliminated. The Ontario Red Tape Commission was responsible for this policy and what’s really interesting is that there’s no mention of the commission any where of the Government of Ontario website. Furthermore, the private labs didn’t “continually” report bad news. They did so once – perhaps if the proper regulations where in place, perhaps the lab could have made their findings known to all officials involved. But because their private, and because

oops

.... But because their private, and because the Harris gov’t wanted to make things easier for private companies, no such regulation existed.

The rumours are true. Mr. Floatie is back, and this time he's on video,
and he's joined forces with Victoria city council candidates Philippe Lucas and
Sonya Chandler. Check the big & juicies @ Cafe Poop
http://www.victoriagreens.com/lets/treatwastenow.asp

ubiquitous, the private water testing facility did not report problems only once. there were multiple attempts to warn the PUBLIC authorities.
And why don't we have a Red Tape Commission in BC. I think it would be a great idea althogh probably " a narrow assessment of the situation "

Yes Ron, the private testing lab did report only once that there were issues with the water. It was in the form of a faxed report to stan koebel - who was ultimately negligent for mislabelling samples and ignoring the warning. The private lab did not adhere to a rough set of guidelines and notify the public utilities commission or the ministry of the environment. But this wasn't neccesarily the fault of the private lab. They were not aware of the guildlines. The real problem is that there were ONLY guildlines; that means, even if the private lab was aware of the them there were no legislative/legal regulations in place ensuring that the lab would have to notify all stakeholders when a problem with the water is found. The fault there lies with the Harris government, who through such initiatives like the red tape commission (why don't we have a commission in B.C.? Honestly Ron, is that your idea of whit?) made damn sure that private firms doing government business would not have to adhere to the same regulations as a government run entity. Why? Think bottom line!

ubiquitous, Why should we not have a Red Tape Commission in BC ?
Canadian productivity is lagging badly. This is affecting our standard of living. There is no doubt about this.
Anything we can do to make it easier to be more productive is a good thing.

So more productivity at the expense of quality? Do you not agree that there should be some kind of balance? Especially when public interests and public safety is at issue? And how do you measure productivity Ron? How do you measure performance? Who exactly are we lagging behind Ron? The U.S. - a country that strives for "growth" at any costs so long that it doesn't impact the size of our wallets? Are you suggesting Ron, to return to the Walkerton tragedy, that it's ok that a few people died, so that a private lab isn't forced to report tainted water to all stakeholders? Like you say, "anything we can do to make it easier". But I don't think that you're really that greedy Ron. I just believe that you fail time and again to really consider every side of the coin.

So many posters seem incapable of original thought. Another mega-project for mega-taxation.

Mr. Floatie is cute and clever and has all the appeal of a fart joke.

It's a motherhood issue to be politically exploited and the vast majority will mindlessly jump on the bandwagon only to whine later, if the project procedes, at punitive taxation made even worse, no doubt, by cost over-runs.

It truly is, a dirty business.

ubiquitous, you talk about balance. The balance is like a 400 lb Public Sector Employee on one side of the teetor totter and a 90 pound weakling on the other.
This is your idea of balance ? I am trying to starve the fat boy, there is no doubt about that. Every chance I have tp promote privatization and starve the Govt. of tax money I will.
I am clear about where I come from. I am trying to save our country. Sorry about that, but someone has to do the dirty work.

Ok Ronnie. Lets get the big guys in on this one then...

Save on Foods Shit Processing Centre or

Pepsi Crap Distribution or

McDonalds Poop Patrol

Take your pick. Balance it out a bit.

somethings just are not accountable to market forces ron. even the most hardened capitalist would admit to that.

Um - fish-counter has it right. Have any of you (Ron, for example) ever tried to go swimming around Victoria, say at Willows or Gonzales' beaches? They are often closed because of high fecal coliform counts.

Yuk - This has been Victoria's not so secret disgrace for years......

Prospect Lake is more than often closed because of high fecal coliform. This is caused by bird poop. What would you have us do ? Kill all the birds or perhaps erect a massive net over the lake to prevent bird poop.
What I am trying to say is there is a limit on how much money we can spend on these problems.
I suggest you swim somewhere else. We could build 100 swimming pools for the cost of this treatment plant.

skeptikool:

Sounds a lot like 2010.................

ubiquitous:

Even the most hardened free market supporter demands a publicly funded military, when nearly everything else should be in the hands of private businesses. I wonder what they are scared of in this instance...?

Ah that explains it! Prospect Lake is closed because that is where Ronnie swims. HAHAHA. Now that I have the cheap shot out of the way, I wonder if Ronnie thinks that the 400 lb. Public Sector Employee is really the problem.

Ron , I happen to think that I want an 800 lb. PSE when I read about obscenity like the Sherry Charlie case. Or do you think that that is just collateral damage in the drive to privatize?

Sherry Charlie, A group of Indians sends an Indian child to be cared for by another Indian. The other Indian murders the Indian child. And this is our fault ? Give me a break.

I don't care how much it costs...Victoria, clean up your crap! It is completely unacceptable that our capital city dumps it's crap in the ocean. We had to pay $15,000 for our septic system (in the RD of Nanaimo). No "I can't afford it", or "the tide will take it away".

As for science, money talks and statistics lie...you can buy any opinion you want. It simply defies logic that pumping the concentrated sewage of a whole city out a pipe into the ocean is harmless. We are so stupid, thinking we can continue to pollute at the current rate and not have to eventually deal with the consequences. Wake up and smell the pollution!

Thank you to the Sierra Legal Defence for highlighting this issue during the current election.

There is absolutely no reason that the beaches around Victoria should be closed to swimming. That affects the quality of life for everyone who lives in the area. Imagine the impact on visitors, when they see those "No swimming" signs. Impressions like that last for years.

Don't make excuses by blaming the wildlife! The shorebirds have always been there. It is the 7,000,000 people who live in the Greater Georgia Basin that create this problem, and Victoria's outfall pipes completely unacceptable.

The capital city must set an example. If enough people raise hell, the politicians will eventually get the message. The longer it is left, the more it will cost. Where is your civic pride? Have you no shame?

Hey Ronnie you got a medical card in your wallet, you closet socialist you.

Michelle Y,

Of course, it is preferable that sewage not enter the sea, our rivers or lakes since it is the NATURAL CYCLE that it be RETURNED to the land.

But vested interests are dumping more excrement on us than is passing through those outfalls.

Even though SOME farmers put cow, sheep and chicken manure on their land many fruits and vegetables today have been found to be lacking nutrients held previously.

To build land that was to lie fallow for a period or for forestry, the sewage would require minimal, if any, treatment.

Very difficult when a city is established, but if ground was broken for a new development, I would seperate the sewage at source by having all but the toilet flushings directed into the storm drains. Not rocket science but it raises the question regarding how necessary those mega projects were.

The Petro-chemical industry and its shills have been very effective with their scare stories regarding the use of domestic sewage.

willy

yes I have a medical card in my pocket. I am forced to deal with a single supplier. Somewhat like in North Korea and Cuba. Unlike Sweden, Norway, France, Germany, Spain, USA, Austarlia, New Zealand, Russia, Poland,
I am sure you get my drift comrad.

Dear Skepticool:
In most municipalities, Nanaimo being one shining example, storm water runoff and sewage are totaly separate systems. Our stormwater runs into the nearest creek, providing fish habitat. The sewage is treated in a true primary settling system, which removes 90% of the solids. Nanaimo also uses secondary treatment in the form of high molecular weight polymers, which help some of the remaining solids settle out faster. I think our Total Suspended Solids is less than half the provincial threshold level.

In Toronto, the two systems are combined with the result that during heavy rainfalls, the sewage system is overloaded and raw sewage is discharged into Lake Ontario.

Most of the GVRD (Vancouver) has a similar system but in the East Hastings District, there is a 10-year program to separate stormwater and sewage, capturing the stormwater in East Hastings Creek, which used to be a salmon river. The creek is being daylighted to recreate the old streambed. I believe the cost is around $50 million.

I don't know if Victoria handles stormwater and sewage separately but it is extremely expensive to separate them once the drains are in place. It has to be done during development.

Perhaps, in this message, there is a solution to Victoria's problem. If poor old Nanaimo can build a sewage treament facility, surely Victoria can too. If not, I am sure that our engineers would be happy to show your engineers how it is done. The first step is for our politicians to show your politicians the reasons why it should be done. If the people of Nanaimo can talk, condescendingly, to the people in Victoria sufficiently often, it may just trigger their pride enough to get off the pot.
It is all very well to brag about the Bouchard Gardens and the Empress Hotel, but you should start doing something about your effluent.

Fish counter,

Thank you for the info. As I said, it ain't rocket science - sort of a BlueBox system for poop.

The key is education. We are as much wasters of water as we are energy gluttons. Without becoming too graphic many households flush ten times more than is necessary.

We teach children to flush. We must also teach them when not to. Table conversation or not, I'd like to see it taking place in the mainstream media.

It should not have been necessary for a walking turd to spark this most important topic but I thank Mr. Floatie and The Tyee for that.

You know, a composting toilet (no water) is about 1300 to 1500 dollars... and that is a one time expenditure. Having to treat just grey water would be a lot cheaper.

The responses seem to have slowed down on this issue but the voters of Victoria had better be absolutely certain that the rest of BC will not let this issue die.

It will be a stain upon the entire province, until Victoria builds an effective sewage treatment facility.

We Canadians like to take the high road with the U.S. on softwood lumber and on environmental issues, including the Pacific Salmon Treaty. We like to sell our clean and water. To retain credibility we must, like Caesar's wife, be above reproach.

Never mind who has jurisdiction. The costs must be shared by the province and by the federal government, but the plant must be built and operational in the next three years.
Why? Because the Olympics come to BC in 2010 and if Victoria wants a piece of the action, you had better get your house in order, and get rid of the odour.

So please, design and build a facility that will include primary and secondary treatment, with a solids digestor that will produce a fertiliser that can be used in agriculture.

The benefits will include:

- Beaches that are open to swimming year round
- Edible shellfish and seaweed that can be sold
to tourists.
- Cleaner waters and reduced pollution levels
in the marine mammals.

It may not make sense to Ron Irwin, but it will
to the rest of the Vancouver Island.

Correction: in the above message, for"

"We like to sell our clean and water", read

"We pride ourselves on our clean air and water".

Sandra posted: 11-14-2005

"Aren't there some jurisdictional issues here? Sewage treatment is a municipal responsibility, but health care is funded by the province".

No one is contributing to this story any more. I guess it got flushed away with the election and it is no longer flavour of the month. Sandra's posting is interesting to warrant a comment.

The comparison I would make is that when we talk about disposing of consu,mer packaging such as blister packs etc., we always hear that packaging is foisted on consumers by the manufacturers. This argument when applied to the Victoria sewage treatment issue applies equally well. Regardless of municipal quirks, the people responsible for sewage treatment are the producers i.e. us; anyone with an *sshole in fact. If you have an enteron, i.e. a mouth-anus, like an anemone, you may be partially exempt. Otherwise, we are all collectively and individually responsible the sewage treatment in our respective towns and cities.

Recent TV articles have reminded us that Victoria's tourist trade has declined steadily over the past five years. The city is going to reposition itself in the new year. It is no overstatement to say that efforts to reposition the city will fail as long as US critics can point to the lack of sewage treatment. Mud sticks, and so do a lot of other things.

It will be a great day when Victoria has a primary and secondary sewage treatment plant.