What a stupid comment....

Typical right-wing philosophy in this company. No wonder Gordo is involved and toadying up to them. Safety is second to last on their priority list of expenditures, just before employees.

Yes, the pipelines will be maintained by the same people as now, allright. Well, at least some of the same people. How about a few ? How about importing them from Asia when the GATS is signed and frees companies to import labour, they all are counting on, while governments remain silent even on the subject of the negotiations at the WTO?

After all, when corporations fire workers, or "outsouce", their stocks go up and they can't miss out on that. CN shows the way on how to reduce the workforce and "improve" the quality of their services and demands on the public.

As long as multinationals can take more and more money and benefits out of BC and Canada, our governments will be very happy.
Ed Deak, Big Lake. "

another stupid comment from the peanut gallery ....

I have to agree with the comment above. It's a keen observation and should be further explored. History shows us that the peanut gallery is always standing at arms length willing to offer advice and criticism, but rarely do they get involved. It was "Mr. Peanut" who finally exploited his position within the gallery in 1938 with the mass marketing of Planters peanuts. His simple outfit of a cane, top hat and a monocle soon became common place in our lives, thus giving further credit to the "peanut gallery." The branding of consumerism has continued to grow and the corporations have reaped untold profits. Sadly Mr. Peanut became disillusioned as time went by, seeing that the corporations, especially Planters, had grown wealthy and sadly he was now destitute. Having long since left the "Peanut Gallery" for the high life, poor "Mr. Peanut" was now no longer welcome, and now spends his time alone calling everyone and everything stupid!
True story....I swear....

gasworks, "gas" doesn't "work".

Ideas, thoughts, full sentences indicating mature comprehension of something might work, maybe, perhaps, possbly.

But "gas" doesn't "work".

But before I get too ahead of myself let me just say C.I.R.E.

Don't like deal? Don't like the company? Don't like the price increases of natural gas?

Take it out. I did. Switched to electricity with wood-burning stove back-up.

Have slept better with less oxygen depletion in the house - feel safer too.

Maintenance, will only be done as money is bugetted for it. If Kinder Morgan needs more money for sharehilders, then money will be channelled from maintenace programs. CNR is suffering from the downside of this.

Lest us forget when the pipeline split in Bellingham and the local creek was literlally turned into a river of fire. Just a few people were turned in char by this so the lawsuits were not all that onnerous.

"What a stupid comment...."

"another stupid comment from the peanut gallery ...."

Do you have something to add, or are you just going to hurl turds from the sidelines?

I am sure if Kinder Morgan was a Swedish firm we would not be in this discussion.

They are not Swedish, they are an American company. Many of us are opposed to foreign ownership of our resources because we feel that the profits should be for the benefit of the people that own them ie. the citizens of British Columbia. Maybe you could explain to us how it is better to have foreign ownership, Mr. Erwin.

C.I.R.E.
Why not?

I think if that swedish company liked to dump gas in wetlands, we'd be having it

having what?

The conversation we're having

Once the BCUC does it's rubber stamp thing and Terasen is no longer in Canadian hands, let alone BC hands, the writing is on the wall for BC Hydro.

We'll be told that KM only owns the pipeline, not the gas or the ground the pipes run through.

Then, after a while, we'll be informed that since foreign ownership restrictions no longer apply, a large California interest has made an ofer for BC Hydro. A huge offer. An offer that would wipe out the provincial debt.

But don't worry - we'll still own the land the power poles are mojnted on so everything will be fine.

Chuckstraight' It's a global economy, we don't have enough money to capitalize everything.

When you have resources, you have capital. Period. Neither BC, or Canada ever needed a penny of foreign investment. Ed Deak, Big Lake,

Lord or lord, I am getting so tired of LEARNING all this dumb hogcrap and I ask NOW in all sincerity....I do not remember voting for the give away of our Province, Country to the new Religion of Corporate Profits, do you CITIZENS?
This new religion appears to be the opposite of the "Bible"(s)and besides, the bestowed status of 'A PERSON' to 'CORPORATIONS' is to me a sham, bogus, counterfeit, fraudulant on behalf of ALL CITIZENRY and a great blight on my senses.

Well, they don't have that status in Canada as far as I know

Assuming you had any loverofalllife (senses that is). Your comment tops them all - here, have a peanut.

Well, gasworks... do you think corporations should be given the same status as a person? That is the way it works in the US.

They do have the same status as a "person" in Canada - but they do not have "Charter rights".

Do you think that's right?

I, as a former owner of shares in Westcoast Energy, was annoyed at the governments' indifference (prov. & fed.) which permitted the sale of a very good company, to the American Duke Energy. I sold my shares and decided to buy into B.C. Gas. So, along comes Gordon with his Howe street cowboys, and guess what?..it happens again! No comments from any governments; are we going to allow these guys to gut our resources, that we as Canadians, investor and non-investor alike. Consider, that these resources were paying for the costs of paying for education, infrastructure maintenance, health, as well as low-cost heating gas and hydro. We'll all be pleading bankruptcy and have to sell our homes, to break even, and then be at the mercy of these offshore absentee landlords. Already, we are seeing the results of far-off events (Katrina, for example), diminishing our bottom lines, with 16% natural gas increases courtesy of Kinder Morgan.

Do I think that's right? - How else could it work?

Dave A, any time now one of our resident trolls will be along to tell you that you're a commie or something equally absurdist. pay them no mind.

It is astounding isn't it that we can have such significant elements of our natural resource sector so easily sold out from under us?

I'm not sure what we ought to think of ourselves.

Perhaps we are merely a nation of shopkeepers, willing to attach a price tag to anything at all. Perhaps Canada isn't a country after all but only a kind of store where wealthy international corporations can bid on anything they see that strikes their fancy. Our role is to develop industries and then to stand back while our governments sell them off directly or allow them to be sold off.

It's demoralizing. It's worse than paying high taxes for crappy services.

What is the point of a Canadian company developing an industry and taking it public?

Develop it sure, but keep it closely held if it matters to you and you want it to either remain within Canada or for it to remain yours. Like Frank Stronach and Magna.

Maybe it's time to give up on the very idea of Canada if we're so easily willing to sell so many of the best revenue producing parts of it it off to the highest bidder.

Ed Deak, you are right. There are no national or provincial policies covering natural resources anymore other than reaping the royalties as the boats sail off.

Sadly, those royalties are a pitance, often not even paying for the damage the extraction caused.

And the bizarre part of it all is when workers are smart enough to organize and insist on a living wage they are attacked as greedy by the chambers of commerce, the media and even fellow workers.

Yet their wages represent the only substantial benefit to the local community from the resource giveaways.

Their wages buy the groceries and other necessity as well as a lot of the discretionary purchases that put the value-added into a community.

Even those crazy weirdos who started the old Social Credit movement in Alberta realized that resources were sometimes better than cash, unless of course, you gave it away.

Can someone perhaps explain why workers ought to simply accept whatever benefits the employers offers even if it puts them in the same exploited position as the resources they process?

And to what benefit is this for local merchants, the tax base and the comunity's sense of well being?

Oh, oh...sense...oh..oh.

Off topic, but anyone remember ghost machine, I stumbled across his vendetta site with the tyee.

http://www.davidbeers.blogspot.com/

loverofallife, the new/old religion is Fascism. ID FD

Pat Bowlan from Edmonton owns the Denver Broco's of the NFL.

Whoopyding Ron. What's your point?

How else could it work? I'm not a real lawyer, and even though I do play one on TV, I can only offer my opinion. In the documentary "the Corporation" they said in the beginning the corporation had a shelf life. It was to complete it's goal/objective in a said amount of time and then poof, it vanishes. As soon as the lawyers got involved it was all over, status as a person granted, but no liability for their accumulated assault on our resources. If you were going to design an ecomomy that was built on sustainability you certainly wouldn't use this model we have now! What part of "we are headed for disaster" don't you understand?

Well there you go then Clubofrome, you've answered your own question. - Obviously you watch too much TV

Right on "ghost", but it seems a little late for that. If the natives don't get it, the big corps will...soon us paupers will be begging for scraps.

I'll take two bags of the dry roasted peanuts please.

Your welcome

September 15, 2005

ROBBINS Sce Research (1998)
robbinssceresearch.com

For immediate Release

Question #1-In your opinion should the BC Utilities Commission allow the sale of Terasen Gas to the U.S. Corporation Kinder Morgan?

Yes-32.5%
No-67.5%

Question #2-In your opinion should the BC Utilities Commission permit the increase in gas prices to consumers in the amount of approximately 13%?

Yes-29%
No-71%

Question #3-After the Vancouver civic election November 19, 2005 which political association would you like to see possess a ‘voting majority’ on the Vancouver School Board?

Non-Partisan Association-47.5%
COPE-48.5%
Other-4.0%

Question #4-After Vancouver’s civic election November 19, 2005 which political association would you like to see with a voting majority on City Council including Mayor?

Non-Partisan Association-48%
COPE plus Vision Vancouver-51%

Question #5-Of these three ‘Vancouver’ political personalities which one would you prefer to be your next Mayor after November 19, 2005?

Christy Clark-25%
Sam Sullivan-29%
Jim Green-46%

Question #6- (only to those respondents who selected either Christy Clark or Sam Sullivan in Question #5). If the person you selected as the one you prefer in Question #5 does not win the NPA nomination scheduled for this September, will you support the other NPA candidate that you did not select, when that candidate goes against Jim Green for the Mayor’s job?

Yes-95%
No-04%

Commentary-This ‘combo’ survey on applications before the BC Utilities Commission and questions relating to Vancouver civic politics provides some additional insight into the minds of Vancouver voters prior to the upcoming civic elections in November of 2005. These responses reveal ‘class divides’ in the City.

People on the East side of Main Street overwhelmingly don’t want Terasen to be sold to U.S. conglomerate Kinder Morgan. The majority of respondents who answered “Yes” in Question #1 live on the West side.

Similarly, those on the East side are in the majority in saying that approval should not be given for higher Gas rates, while fewer respondents on the West side accept a 13% increase as compared to a sale of the entire company to U.S. interests.

Civic races for School Board, City Council and the Mayor’s Chair will be close but Christy Clark has slightly shorter coattails for School Board than Sam Sullivan. What’s very interesting is the fact that although the Christy Clark plus Sam Sullivan support in Question #5 exceeds Jim Greens support, Question #6 tells us that virtually all of Sam Sullivan’s ‘supporters’ will take Christy as second choice, while Christy’s ‘supporters’ (in total) are slightly less inclined to support Sam Sullivan.

So the people on the west side are saying it is ok to sell our resource based companies to the americans, while those in the less affluent part of town are more concerned about our assets being sold to a foreign country?

The greedy types are more concerned about their own bottom line then that of the nation, no wonder they always vote right and the right sells us off one chunk at a time. Again read Hertigs Vanishing Country!

Ursus, Canada vanished years ago. Welcome to the global economy. Take your head out of the sand.

The answer to Question #6, reminds me of North Vancouver in the last Federal election. The Pres. of the Lib Riding Assn. stood down to challenge the nomination. For weeks, he told anyone who would listen every reason under the sun why Don Bell, Mayor of the District of NV, should not get the nomination. He was right, and then some. Don Bell won the nomination. At which point the other guy was asked, "What do you do now you're no longer president?" "Oh," says he, "I go back to being President and have to work hard to get our candidate elected." "But you've spent weeks telling us why he's no good for the job. How can you work to get him elected - especially now that we know about the Sponsorship scandal?"

"Oh, well, he's our candidate and those are the rules of the Party."

Now the rumour is that he'll stand for council. Is it any wonder we get the governments we do?

As for heads in the sand....If someone doesn't stand up for what's left of this country, our heads certainly will be in the sand - trodden under the feet of all those who would rape our resources until they're all gone and then move on to what's left in the globe.

It's past time the subjects of democracy - and ethics - began to be taught in elementary school. The kids are about all the hope we have left.

Isabella2, I agree that it's time for schools to teach democracy and ethics. I don't fear my grandchildren at their private christian school being taught this by non BCTF teachers.

I recieved all but two years of grades i-12 at religious schools and while I learned little about democracy and nothing about ethics, I did learn somehow (probably infected by "reason"), how to distinguish right from wrong.

I've since spent the rest of my life learning that right and wrong, such as practiced and taught by various religions and their luminaries like these last two Popes and such as Pat Robertson and Billy Graham, has little to do with ethics and a lot to do with political positioning and product branding.

And that's the kind of "Democracy" we've wound up with.

I too spent several years in Very Religous school. It took many years for me to realize that a large part of what was taught was completely false. When I see what so-called followers of the Prince of Peace are doing to our Southern neighbour it is obvious there has been no improvement since those days long ago.

At least there are no strikes at christian schools. And no brainwashing by BCTF socialist neo-libs.

No, just brainwashing by Christians

and what the hell does your schooling have to do with Kinder Morgan ? Must be the oil for brains !!!

Ouch! Touche, netscaper2.

In retrospect, even though the numbers generally reflect a public sentiment of don't sell to the Americans, the "No's" in our polls of the split in BC Hydro to sell part of that company to Terasen were far more vociferous than in this most recent poll. Also, in the first poll I recollect we called folks in the norhth and interior of the province (the second Vancouver). When it comes to the sale of BC Assets people in the North and Interior go crazy, even if they are staunch conservative types. The conservative types in Vancouver, or more precisely 'market liberals' in my opinion justify these sales by suggesting that government should stay out of business, rather than telling the truth and saying 'while I've got mine so I am not going to worry about it'.

It seems to me that when the name label is British Columbian any sale (whether rich or poor) is not acceptable. It is as if the first sale to Terasen was established as a sort of 'laundering' or 'rinsing' to 'set up' the eventual sale to the U.S. conglomerate.

Selling off our assets will never ring up 51% of public support, but this rinse job of (initially) BC Hydro into Terasen seems to have taken a little sting out of the (what I personally believe) may have been the intended sale all along.

If Nixon can reconfigure the layout of Universities to make protests more difficult, I suppose any type of plan from government can be undertaken, if they want a specific outcome badly enough.

Hello everyone! I can't help but wonder why Premier Campbel and his cohorts are so eager to seel out verything to U.S. based interests. It reminds me of the Mulroney years when Canada was sold dwon the road, as it were, to the States, via Nafta, etc... Like Mulroney, perhaps he's been offered board positions on those same corporations i.e. Kinder Morgan, CN Rail (which is mostly U.S. investor owned), Maximus, and so on. Otherwise, what could the Liberals possibly have to gain, as these sales and privatizations will end up costy British-Columbians more money, and the Liberals their poltical support? Or perhaps they take us all for a bunch of idiots, who knows...