News

Taxing the Fish

Sport fishing reels in money, but too much swims away say coastal local governments. A TYEE SPECIAL REPORT

By Heather Ramsay, 8 Mar 2005, TheTyee.ca

salmon1sm

Text size:

Rate this:

Login/Register

"It's like going to the Calgary Stampede and expecting to take home a side of beef," says former commercial fisherman John Disney of Masset.

He, like many who once made a good living on the seas, feel the elite sport fishing industry in British Columbia is taking wild salmon away from coastal communities and giving it to those wealthy enough to fly in for a chance to play a feisty tyee.

And it is not just local fishermen hooked on this line of concern. Local governments are worried about getting some kind of payback for the use of local resources too.

After years of discussion, the Skeena-Queen Charlotte Regional District, has opted to implement a two per cent tax on some of the lodges on the Queen Charlotte Islands. But after sending the bylaw to the province for approval they hit a serious snag. The province says 50 per cent of lodge owners must agree to the tax before it can be passed.

Much of the sport fishing lodge controversy swirls around the fish-filled waters of the northwest coast of Haida Gwaii. There are seven land-based lodges on this rugged coast, but many of the deluxe accommodations are on floating lodges, some nothing more than ships that anchor while the fishing is good, then move on.

Recreational fishing booming

Around 18 fishing lodges operate on Haida Gwaii, but the number fluctuates year to year. Although the land-based lodges pay leases and taxes, the regional district has not been successful at assessing and taxing many of the floating lodges and none of the lodges will agree to pay the new two per cent tax.

Regional District administrator Janet Beil argues the transient lodges do little for the economy of the islands, as guests are flown in by charter plane and transferred directly to float planes or helicopters for the last leg. Supplies such as food, gear, and even gasoline are brought in with the guests. Most lodges don't even process the fish on the Queen Charlotte Islands.

Some operations pay nothing more to set up in these wilderness areas than a business license, a few fishing licenses for staff and a liquor license for the guests. Leases are required, but not often acquired.

"Why businesses in our area and extracting our resources have more say than the community impacted by them is beyond me," says Beil.

Perhaps it is because the recreational fishing industry is booming. Lodges charge anywhere from $3,000 to $4,500 for a five night package. All told the industry brought in $620 million to the provincial economy last year, says Eric Kristenson spokesperson for the Sportsfishing Institute, an industry-supported lobby group.

In 1985, when the first lodge set up on Langara, 500 chinook salmon were reeled in by guests. In 2004, the take went well beyond the projected 60,000, forcing the Department of Fisheries and Oceans (DFO) to reassess midseason. By the end of the year, 74,000 chinook, one of the most valuable and coveted fish on the coast, were bagged by thrill-seeking, deep-pocketed anglers.

Although the commercial fishery brought in 150,000 chinook in 2004, the best year since 1997, Disney insists that every fish caught by a sports fisher is one that won't help pay mortgages or put food on the table in Masset, a community that has supported fishermen for thousands of years.

'Like last buffalo hunt'

The controversy has been swirling around for more than 15 years now, and by some people's standards, the sport fishers have gotten their crab cake and eaten it too.

By 1990 the Council of the Haida Nation (CHN) had already had enough. More and more lodges and sport fishers were amassing each season on traditional Haida fishing grounds, creating conflict on trolling tacks and dominating well-known halibut holes.

According to Arnie Bellis, vice-president of the CHN, a Royal Commission type report was prepared that year which recommended a Haida-led management plan for the industry. They called for a restriction on the number of beds, visitor days, and fish caught. The Haida also called a moratorium on any more lodge development, which was respected by the province.

"It is like the last of the buffalo hunt and it is starting to have a substantial impact on Haida Gwaii," says Bellis.

The conflict culminated with a protest, in which Haida in large canoes, along with commercial fishermen, amassed in the small harbour off Langara, positioning themselves so it was impossible for planes to bring customers in to the Charlotte Princess, one of Oak Bay Marine Group's contentious lodges.

Controversial report

Then in 1996, a controversial report called "The Economic Value of Salmon," prepared by Gordon Gislason for DFO and the province of B.C. suggested that a sports-caught chinook is worth more than $670 to the provincial economy compared with only $26 for a commercially harvested salmon. Disney and many others, including Don Pepper, a former economist with DFO who teaches at BCIT and wrote a rebuttal report, felt the methods used to arrive at these numbers were unsound. Nevertheless the report was used to justify political decisions about fishing on the west coast.

Compounding all of this was a real concern for some salmon stocks in the mid 1990s and the ensuing Mifflin Plan. The minister at the time, Fred Mifflin, decided the commercial fishery should be cut in half, and in the wake of his plan, more than 1,173 licenses were bought out or lost due to fishermen being forced to reduce their activity to one type of fishing gear.

In 1999, DFO further restricted the Haida Gwaii commercial fishermen. They gave the recreational sector priority access to chinook and coho salmon, and the commercial sector primary access to sockeye, pink, and chum salmon. And a no-go boundary along the north coast of Graham Island was imposed on commercial boats to address congestion in the area.

Tax: 'It's a crumb'

Disney says the trouble communities like Masset, Ahousaht, and Kitkatla are facing now are repercussions from bad decisions made over the past 16 years.  "We are still suffering and the problem is an entire generation has disappeared, who could teach younger ones how to get access to the resource," he says.

Disney says the commercial fleet in Masset used to consist of 54 boats, all built locally. Now there are only a couple left and none of them are in the Haida village of Old Massett. People feel the proposed two per cent tax hardly makes up for what they've lost.

"It is a crumb, but it is better than nothing," says Disney, who is incredulous the lodges won't agree to the tax.

West Coast Fishing Club owner Rick Grange takes exception to the generalization that all the lodges on Haida Gwaii are not giving anything back to the community. He owns two land-based lodges and one floating lodge in the Langara Island area and another farther down the west coast.

"There are good lodges and bad lodges," says Grange, who also now owns a house and lives on the islands.

He knows and is unhappy about the lodges in the area that don't pay for leases, don't employ locals, take the fish and leave. The most infuriating for him is that his customers sometimes book into these other places by mistake, due to the myriad of similarly named outfits.

Lodge employs 130

Grange, who after buying 38 acres of deeded property zoned for a resort and a marina, opened his first lodge on Langara Island in 1991.

Last year he employed 130 people, more than half of them from the islands. He says he also tries to buy as much as he can locally and use locals to build or do renovations on his property in the winter. He was the first lodge owner to consistently use the Masset airport and he also has all of his clients' fish packaged and processed locally.

"We're not in here to make a few dollars for a couple of years, we're looking at this as a long term business, long term commitment."

But Grange says his foremost concern is to put more fish back into the ocean than his clients take out.

He collects five dollars from his guests for each fish they kill and matches it, which he then gives to an organization he set up called Queen Charlotte Islands Salmon Unlimited.

Grange recruited his neighbours at Langara Island Lodge to participate in the program as well, and together they have raised around $600,000 in the last six years. This goes into local salmon enhancement programs on the north island, including managing a hatchery, repairing fish ladders and restoring access to creeks that cross the highway.

Owners question fairness of tax

Grange also promotes catch and release. He has set up a unique fish bank system, in which he buys salmon from local commercial fishermen, and keeps these at the processing plant in Masset for clients who agree to release any fish they catch.

"If it's a bleeder, they take the fish and mark it down on their ticket and it goes back into the pool for others who decide to go catch and release," he says aware of the concerns regarding mortality statistics on catch and release.

With all he does, Grange doesn't think the regional district's tax is the answer.

Kristensen says lodge owners do not support the proposed regional district tax for a number of reasons. For one thing it isn't fair.

The tax is aimed at lodges on the north end of Graham Island and wouldn't affect other charter operators or accommodations on the island or on the mainland, says Kristensen.

But more importantly to Kristensen, is the lack of a clear picture of how the money would be used. The SFI have been told the money will go into a fund to promote tourism on the islands. Kristensen says the sports fishing industry already spends $2–3 million on promoting the Queen Charlotte Islands as a destination.

Kristensen argues the lodges collectively contribute $7 million a year to the local economy through wages and tips, as well as lodge and client expenditures.

'Has to be level playing field'

Disney points to the reported $2 million in local wages. Spread out over the reported 115 local employees, the average is $17,000 each, a far cry from the $100,000 many local fishermen used to earn. And Disney points out that the 2003 report, "The Queen Charlotte Islands Fishing Lodge Industry," was written by Gislason, the same consultant whose 1996 report reported much higher benefits from sports fishing compared to commercial operations.

Gislason himself couldn't give a detailed breakdown of the numbers. He says the lodges voluntarily reported what they spent on the island through a survey he sent to them. For example, his report allocates $2 million in transportation as a local expenditure. This number includes air transport from Masset to the lodges, which many argue is carried out by companies not headquartered on the islands.

"I guess there is a legitimate issue about how much of that actually is a benefit to the Charlottes," he says.

For his part, Grange would rather see governments put more effort into ensuring all lodges are properly leased, taxed and regulated.

"There has to be a level playing field and a code of conduct," he says.

The problem with this theory is no one government department handles the sport fishing industry and none of the many interested departments have budgets to monitor the situation on the rugged coast. In 2002, Samson Lodge in Naden Harbour sunk and many believe with proper monitoring, this could have been prevented.

Haida to key off Supreme Court ruling

Ian Smythe, section head for Land and Water British Columbia based in Smithers, cites the moratorium as the reason there are lodges with no leases. They stopped writing new tenures in 1990 and, according to Smythe, will not proceed until a proper planning exercise has taken place.

Bellis says the Haida are in the process of starting another round of discussions with stakeholders and the province around the management of sports fishing. He notes the Haida are looking to ensure the recent Supreme Court decision regarding the government's duty to consult and accommodate is upheld in this industry.

Skeena-Bulkley Valley Member of Parliament Nathan Cullen appreciates islanders' concerns about the sport fishing industry.

"You find this type of elite tourism all around the world," he says.

The attractiveness of the place, be it the Galapagos Islands off Ecuador or the fishing grounds off Haida Gwaii, is the remoteness, but unless operators are willing to support the local communities conflict will ensue.

"People feel a great ownership and responsibility to water and fish [on Haida Gwaii]. When someone takes it out of their control, people get up in arms ... and so they should," he says.

Heather Ramsay, a journalist in Queen Charlotte City, is a frequent contributor to The Tyee. [Tyee]

22 Comments:

Login or register to post comments

  • Bill Hills (not verified)

    7 years ago

    Government favouring a special commercial interest group over the resource and over the local economy is province wide. Big Game guides and their surrogates are asking the government to change the classification of a bird-the Turkey to Big Game so that bird hunters from out of province will have to hire a guide. When a fowl becomes a mammal we are all fould up.

  • Gee Whiz (not verified)

    7 years ago

    Some yank wants to spend $4,000 to catch 5 fish I say good. The local government should have a means to tax these local businesses but I don't want to hear complaints from the commercial fishery. I say we put a royalty on every fish in the province, commerical, recreation, sports.

    Fish are a provincial resource and the group that exploits it the most while giving back the least are the commercial fishermen.

  • Haida Gwhy? (not verified)

    7 years ago

    Management skills ... every darn crisis seems to be a failure of management.

    Obviously the current business-league government can't manage this precious Queen Charlotte resource. Bastards begone!

  • ch (not verified)

    7 years ago

    Sure, keep fighting over the salmon untill they are all gone...

  • Matthew (not verified)

    7 years ago

    This article is the equivalent of the buffalo hunters criticizing the tourists who come to look at the last few buffalo.

    Tourism, and in this case sport fishing, is the future. The total salmon harvest is far less than the commercial catch has been. Local critics would be better off figuring out a way to create businesses catering to people willing to pay the big bucks to come and catch a few fish.

  • Lorne Finlayson (not verified)

    7 years ago

    Bit of an error, Heather. The Minister of Fisheries and Oceans whose name is connected with the commercial licence buy-back, area licencing and all of that was Fred, not Todd, Mifflin.

  • Lanagara Fisherman (not verified)

    7 years ago

    Too bad the article does not mention the fines DFO issued West Coast Fishing Club for poaching last year .....

  • Sam Salmon (not verified)

    7 years ago

    'Langara Fisherman'-do you have a link?
    I heard of no such fine and in the world of Sportfishing in BC-which is a small world-that would be news indeed.The only 'poaching' that goes on @ WCFC is in the kitchen.You may be thinking of OBMG a rather shoddily run outfit that's all about numbers not fishing.
    For the record I've been to QCI seven times Sportfishing starting in '89-the fishing is better than ever thanks to ocean survival conditions being favourable for smolts.
    In fact this past summer @ Milbanke Sound on the Mainland side I could literally catch Coho Salmon @ will-even with Orcas feeding 150 feet away.
    The article as written is a one sided account by someone who has never visited a lodge or caught a fish-with the requisite sour ex commercial fisherman b*tching and whining as they are wont to do even after their fat buyouts.
    I note no mention of the ground breaking agreements that Michael Coe owner of Westcoast Resorts has with local Haida leaders, the efforts of Queen Charlotte Lodge to employ young Haida-a great bunch of people BTW-as Guides.
    Guiding positions can be very lucrative and the young Haida who are employed by QCL are able to use that money to further their educations.
    One year the Fishmaster @ QCL was a bright friendly eminently helpful young man who's name was Riel.
    Think of the irony of someone named after Canada's most notorious dissident helping people to safely enjoy the unique and enchanting homeland his people have lived in for so long.
    The idea that fish should somehow be *processed* in QCI is laughable.Fish are cleaned/boxed and frozen @ the Lodges-is someone supposed to load them onto a helicopter into Masset to be cleaned?LOL!!!
    BTW-There is no commercial smokehouse on QCI so fish are sent to Vancouver or Nanaimo to be smoked/canned.
    As to gasoline being flown into Lodges-that's a complete falsehood-the economics are such that gasoline is purchased in QCI in bulk and shipped by barge to the Lodges-something I have seen many times.
    The reference to the bogus 'protest' that prevented incoming planes from landing many eyars ago is poignant-I was one of the outgoing guests aboard the Charlotte Princess that day.I witnessed the skiffs buzzing in the bay and after the planes had departed I saw the leaders of the protest head to the Lodge next door for lunch while their 'troops' waited outside in the skiffs/drank beer/ate sandwiches-a complete farce.
    In the end as I've said saner heads prevailed and the baksheesh demanding crowd were shunted aside by educated and knowledgeable leaders.
    It's true that the Lodges there are expensive but it's also true that not everyone pays full price.
    Someone who can go at the last minute can often take a trip for half price or even less-I know I've done it 7 times to QCI alone!

  • allan (not verified)

    7 years ago

    Seems to me if you are operating a profitable business within Canada, BC or a regional district that can set up on public water, you ought to be paying taxes just like those based on dry land.

    The alternative? There's a great big friggin ocean out there just outside Canadian waters where no one has to pay taxes.

  • Sam Salmon (not verified)

    7 years ago

    Allan-from your statement I surmise you have never heard of a 'water lease' or are aware that a number of Lodges in QCI are in fact on dry land and do pay taxes.
    A few floating Lodges/converted Tugboats pay little or nothing it's true but they generally only last a few years in my experience.
    Of course that's the problem with this article-written as it is by someone who has never visited any of the Lodges but relies on secondhand info for her sources.

  • allan (not verified)

    7 years ago

    Sam, please allow me to try to explain the rational for my comment.

    I relied primarily on the second sentence in the sixth paragraph from the top:

    "Although the land-based lodges pay leases and taxes, the regional distict has not been successful at assessing and taxing many of the floating lodges and none of the lodges will agree to pay the new two percent tax."

    Later paragraphs continues in the same vein.
    In other words, I wasn't referring to the land based lodges when I suggested those who didn't pay taxes ought to 'float off' on the high seas.

    I'm sorry, but I don't quite see how I'm off course. The free-booting Tugboat-Annies and Andies were the target of my suggestion some might want to weigh anchor.

    What am I missing?

  • Sam Salmon (not verified)

    7 years ago

    Yes I see and that's where the article goes off track-she makes it sound like there are pirates in every Cove skulking around freebooting off the resource.

    In fact I can think of 2 (two) operations that have no permanent anchorage and so no lease-they move weekly sometimes more often and sometimes fish the Mainland side-perhaps there are more but they must be very small indeed.

    The statement that no one has agreed to an increase in taxes with no increase in services-in fact no services of any kind-isn't newsworthy.Who in the name of all that's holy is going to pay for nothing?And how many times in the future is this grab going to repeat itself?

    Lodges already pay to transport guests in and out of either Sandspit or Masset, the Bus companies that are contracted to shuttle guests from Airport to Seaport employ local people and the Airlines pay fees to use the Airport facilities.When weather conditions preclude flying into more remote lodges the Lodges pay for guests to stay overnight in local accommodation/all meals and it happens believe me.

    How many more taxes need be paid and for what?

    A person has to visit QCI and see what a tiny rural place it is to understand that this tax is nothing but a money grab by greedy local politicians.

    Like many small places QCI is rife with jealousy and anyone with a dollar is a target for the small minded and venal to backbite/stab.

    No matter how much goodwill, employment and funding for Salmonid enhancement Lodges provide there'll always be someone with their hand out.

  • allan (not verified)

    7 years ago

    Sam, if you are earning a living on land in the water, underground or in the air in BC, you have absolutely no right to object to paying taxes.

    I don't give a shit if you have to carry your guests on your back to get them to your lodges.

    It's the cost of doing business fellow, and the trickle down into the local comunity certainly doesn't seem at all like a good heavy rain.

    You are earning an income from them by utilizing BC resources.

    I've been to the Charlottes and although it has been years since, I imagine there are still many costs the regional district or others have to deal with.

    Fishing lodges are part of the hospitality, recreation industry that has been crying out for recognition of its value to society. What is that value if you don't pay any taxes?

    My sense is that you come out of an era when resources, like fish, wildlife, trees and a province full other stuff, were seen by a great many as being unlimited and free for the taking.

    I help subsidize the ferry service on which many of your clientelle arrive at your lodge.

    Why am I being taxed for that again?

  • anne cameron (not verified)

    7 years ago

    I don't live in Haida Gwaii, although I have family who do, and who were in the blockade. I support the Haida position and I don't give a rat's furry backside what $$$ accrue to the province from these floating shit palaces. The level of inspection and of enforcement of such basic necessities as where the toilet flush ends up is a very fundamental bone of contention... the Haida have an emotional bonding to their homeland that most of us , children of immigrants, recent newcomers, can't fully appreciate.


    I live in Tahsis and we who have chosen to live hours by gravel road away from "civilization" are jealously protective of the area we now call home. I won't mention the actual name, I don't want to offend or embarrass anyone but there is one place here which is so special it should by rights be a world heritage park. Even though we live surrounded by incredible beauty, we speak of this place as one of the special gifts. Most of us go there on a more or less regular basis...not to "picnic" or to build a fire and sing Michael Row The Boat Ashore but to just sit and think and feel and BE for a while. This year someone , somehow, either bought or leased this unique and precious place. He is going to put pre-fab chalets on it and either rent them or sell them to very wealthy "outsiders"


    Miffed? You betcha!! I know of no public discussion on this, no input from interested or concerned locals, no suit came to ask us if we wanted this absolutely unbelievably fragile and gorgeous place covered with cheap-shit plywood chalets...where is the shit going to go? It is not a place suitable for septic tanks. As recently as twenty years ago you could have got permission to build a house in the area because of concerns about septage. But someone is going to put a mini subdivision in a place which really should be left completely alone, for the entire world to visit and quietly enjoy while contemplating the real worth and value of this land which sustains us all.


    I've only been in Tahsis full-time for three years and the thought of septage draining from what was once one of God's Gifts just makes me boil with frustration. I want to stand on the beach there and yell No, this is WRONG...

    I suggest to you that some things are just that, basically wrong. In my personal experience the Council Of The Haida Nation has always taken a long-term view. In my personal experience they consult with educated people before making decisions about the land which has been theirs for twelve thousand years or more and which STILL is their responsibility. And yes, they speak from a place of emotion. And yes, many of us do speak from that very place, as well.>P>
    Again, any discussion of $$$ is a stupid waste of time. NOBODY is saying stop the sports fishing. It is the commercial lodges which are not licensed, not paying any lease, not paying any tax, and , in many cases, not paying any attention to where the toilets flush which have kicked off the original protest. $$$ aren't going to mean bugger-all if the ocean and land have been exploited and ruined. Fisheries has done such a great job in the past forty years that there are no cod on the Atlantic grounds and twentyone species of groundfish have been so extirpated as to be eligible for the endangered species list...IF we even had one which we don't. Every bay up and down this coast used to roil silver when the herring returned. This year most of the herring are heading for Tahsis inlet...and up and down this coast people are wondering where in hell all the fish went... well, look to Fisheries for the answer. Properly managed there would be enough for everyone. But when $$$ become the deciding factor something is very much out of whack. If they're freeloading, if they don't have the proper permits, the proper inspection, if they aren't paying taxes...sink the bastards and make way for those who will cooperate and help ensure future harvest.

    kleko

  • Sam Salmon (not verified)

    7 years ago

    Please Note-I don't own/operate or work in or for any fishing Lodge-but I have been to every major sportfishing destination in BC-including Tahsis-at least once.

    Also note that contrary to the ignorant and angry 'allan' lodges do indeed pay for water and land leases.As per my patient and detailed explanation only 2 (two) floating lodges/tugboats pay no taxes and those operate only part time in QCI.
    'allan'-your lack of knowledge of BC geography is appalling.
    No one and I mean No One takes the Ferry to QCI to fish at a lodge-they all fly in.The logistics of ferry travel are such that it takes the best part of a week to travel from Vancouver to Skidegate and back-you really should try and leave the double wide more often Old Boy.~~~~~~~~~

    'anne cameron'-if you took the time to read my previous posts you'd know that the agreements reached between various lodges including but not limited to Westcoast Resorts and Queen Charlotte Lodge have provided many Haida with employment for years now.The blockade mentality has been replaced by a spirit of cooperation and education.Haida not only work as Guides and Dockhands at Lodges they sell their timeless carvings as well providing additional income in a severely depressed economy.The net benefit to both sides has been tremendous as any guest or Haida employee can tell you.Too bad your bile anger and ignorance have blinded you to the reality of situation.Your are deeply misinformed and decades behind the times in your cramped and narrow view of the situation.~~~~~As to the Tahsis situation I have lived in Tahsis Springs apartment building while fishing in the area and know that tiny village inside out.
    FYI-this past season was one of the most successful sportfishing seasons every for Tahsis based sports-or have you heard?
    'anne'-you really need to buy a boat and head out to take a look around-the coast is healthy and so is the resource.When was the last time you were out at Ferrer point or Nuchalitz anyway?
    Listening to broken down old commercial fishermen stewing in the sour juices is no way to gather impartial info.
    Living for 3 short years in Tahsis won't teach you much-do you know what life was like when the sawmill was operating?How can you?
    There was hideous noise 24/7, stink, oil spills and shit in the water day and night from ships who picked up the timber-I know I was there and saw/smelt it!
    Ever wonder how efficient the sewage treatment plant in Tahsis is?Does it meet contemporary standards?Are your turds of today making the Inlet any healthier?The big sportfishing boats that engender so much jealousy in a backwoods village like Tahsis are bought and paid for by hardworking people who have jobs/businesses in functioning economies-places quite unlike you beloved backwater.

  • allan (not verified)

    7 years ago

    Sam Salmon, best that you seek out a mirror before accusing anyone of being angry.

    But stop shaking and wipe the froth off your lips before peeking at your own image. Frightening man.

    I promise not to try to match your word count here but feel I must respond to a few of your more interesting comments.

    I've always prided myself for having the good sense to look at a map before going anywhere I haven't been before. It beats carrying a long string.

    Are you saying the geography up there has changed since the last time I visited? Hey anything's osible under this curent Liberal government.

    I guess it was just dumb of me not to know that guests who stay at QCI lodges are well-healed enough that they don't have to get there in BC Ferries steerage with us mere taxpayers.

    And can you imagine the nerve of anyone to suggest that BC ought to earn a bit of tax revenue of the leisure habits of wealthy tourists? What was I thinking Sam?

    Regardless Sam, take a deep breathe, count to 10 and then try to read all the way through my previous post.

    My position is that land based lodges DO pay taxes and so portable water based lodge operations should also pay taxes.

    Perhaps the key word here is TAXES. You are not the first person I've come across who doesn't like paying taxes.

    Now don't get me wrong, because I am not angry, but rather insistant that you pay your fair share of taxes on revenue you earn from the resources of BC.

    I can appreciate that you may not have liked the smell, noise or other unpleasantries associated with mills such as the one that once operated at Tahsis. A lot of people, Anne Cameron included, would agree with you on that, I suspect.

    But the mill paid its employees good wages that were taxed and then spent in the community and then taxed again and then spent a bit more and taxed some more. . .

    Surely I don't have to explain to you how the benefits of wages etc. are supposed to ripple through a community. Especially so, if business people don't help out by paying their own share of taxes.

    By the way, what kind of wages do QCI lodge owners pay their workers and how much revenue spin off goes back into the community?

    Finally Sam, your explanation was anything but patient or detailed and given that you claim not to have a financial stake in the industry what drives your rage here?

  • anne cameron (not verified)

    7 years ago

    Sam, settle down, cool out, and chill! Without the blockade the benefits you quite correctly list would probably not have happened. It's a sad truth that all too often people have to get radical before other people, particularly those with axes to grind and profit to make, will listen. "Timeless carvings" are nice, some are world class art, but not everyone has the gift. As for when was the last time I was out at Neuchatlitz..not that long ago , Sam. The otter have stripped all the mussels, barnacles, and cockles from the rocks. I am very aware the sports fishing was great in Tahsis last year... it was so stinking lousy on the other side of the island that people who usually spent the season there drove in here. So with many many more sports fishers out there, busy six to ten hours a day, there were, of course, more fish caught. And that's the point, my friend. The government has cut funding to the hatchery.. already most places in Tahsis are booked solid for the coming season...and they will all expect to catch fish, fish, fish...and how long will the inlet be able to support the demand for those fish? I don't even know any of those bitter old fishers you mentioned, the people I know are sporties, full time residents who buy their licenses every year, can or freeze what they catch, eat and enjoy it. As for Tahsis as it used to be...I was here..I heard the noise, smelled the stink, saw the drunks, and as soon as I could got my kids the hell out of here. After the mill closed and the place calmed down I came back. This is not the same place as that scrofulous mill town. Come on up, I'm in the phone book, come for coffee, hell you can even freeze your catch in my freezer if you can be civil. This is a place for exchange of ideas, Sam, not for a fuckin fullout war. Shock and awe might work for the Amerikkkan empire, but it's a tad out of place here.


    I stand by my previous post. Some places should be world heritage sites. NO place needs the exploiters and too many of the "lodges" are exploiting what should be everyone's resource. Most of those wealthy people who are willing to spend whatever amount to come and cavort in our back yards live in places where the very jobs and industries which provided them with that wealth have also degraded the environment. Nobody is catching anything in downtown Phoenix, in Berlin, or in New York. A recent article by Robert Kennedy tells that MOST of the fish in the rivers in the US are not fit for human consumption because of contamination... and we can not stop that kind of grim future if we just sit here and smile as we count the Winnebagos rolling into town. I really don't think I'm the one who is decades behind in my view. I think people who work from the supposition that everything is peachy keen in the ocean are people who have shoved their heads so far up their own basic fundaments that they can't even see any more. "Fisheries management" is a prime example of an oxymoron! I also don't think I suffer from "bile anger". I feel a lot of concern, I feel a deep emotional commitment to this area, I mourn the mess southern Vancouver Island is becoming: I was born here and too much which should have been protected has been pillaged and destroyed. And the sewage treatment plant in Tahsis passed government inspection...can you say the same about where your flush goes? There is no envy in "backwater Tahsis" for the big sportfishing boats, there might be some laughter and the suggestion most of them are so much more than is needed that it looks like a "my pecker is bigger than your pecker" competition, but then we feel that way about Humvee's as recreation vehicles, too. I guess we're all just hicks, right?


    settle down before your ulcers start to bleed. I have only lived fulltime in Tahsis for three years but my son has been here for thirty...I lived here during the hey-day...it was hell...it isn't hell now and those of us who have chosen to live here want to protect this place. It is very easy to become emotionally involved and very protective of what is still here when you've travelled extensively and seen what is festering "out there". And because I've seen dead water, because I've seen what corporate greed has done, you can bet your ass I'll do what I can to protect this place.

    But I'll still make you a coffee. We might not agree on everything but we don't have to disagree, either. Why sneer at my "beloved backwater"...you come here, you rent an apartment, you go out and catch your limit... what's to scorn in any of that? This place must be pretty good or you wouldn't come here... well it is the dedication of the people who live here who have made it acceptable even to a person of your own doubtless discriminating taste. So we must be doing okay, eh?

  • Sam Salmon (not verified)

    7 years ago

    'allan'-transportation is included in the price of all QCI lodges-haven't you looked at the sites?Your tired argument about 2 lodges who don't pay taxes to local Govts is pointless-they pay for a business licence from the Provincial Govt and pay all business costs-how much is enough anyway?Give it up-you're becoming quite tiresome.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~'anne'-I'm aware of the state of fish stocks on the Inside-I live in Vancouver.The lack of Salmon Inside is directly attributable to global warming-an earlier and smaller freshet from the Fraser means what smolts that do make it to sea migrate Outside ASAP.Because conditions in the Alaskan Gyre have been favourable Salmon returns have been healthy.I agree that then resource belongs to all Canadians-all they have to do is access it.
    That's why last year instead of a Lodge trip I went to Shearwater and fished Milbanke Sound.It's easy to trailer up to Port Hardy and take the Coast Discovery ferry to Shearwater, camp there and go fishing every day.*Anyone can do this* and believe me I'm far from rich.Similarly anyone can go to Tahsis or Gold River or Zeballos or Winter Harbour and fish if they really want to.
    The fish don't belong to the few hundred souls who tough it out over the winter in those lost towns no matter what they think.
    As to fishing out of Tahsis I don't like the long run daily out to the outside.The place is 'ok' but run down and the people who live there a forlorn lot.Been there/done that ain't a goin' back as it were.

  • allan (not verified)

    7 years ago

    Sam, if you could make a statement without trying to beat the other side up first and then ignoring anything you don't want to hear, you might advance your cause a bit.

    I haven't put out any argument, tired or anything "about two lodges that don't pay taxes."

    In fact, I beleive you raised that number.

    Ain't nothin' free Sam. Pay your taxes.

  • anne cameron (not verified)

    7 years ago

    Sam , you seem to have thought the protest against those who exploit and try to dodge paying taxes, permits, etc., is an arrow aimed at the heart of sports fishers; the sporties aren't the target, and aren't on the line...it's the absentee landlords who want to have more than their fair share..."the people who live there a forlorn lot"...don't know who you saw, myopia can be a real problem, I guess...the "forlorn lot" I know are industrious, cheerful, and very gentle and friendly people. We have more than the usual per centage of painters, photographers, crafts people, musicians and writers here, and we drive "out" regularly enough to practise an understandable version of the English language...sorry about the "long run out" to the open water... no need to make it , the inlet itself is rich, you just have to fish at the proper depth...have a good fishing season, hope you limit out...I'd be interested to hear your views on "catch and release", it has seemed to me that the seals and eagles sort of hang around to get the stunned, often injured fish which get released...sometimes seems, too, that people are releasing so as to continue fishing in the hope the next one will be a smiley...I'd be interested, too, in your take on "guides"...if you're camping and fishing you probably don't need or employ one...I personally think it's a bit of a rip-off to charge almost six hundred for two people for six hours..granted the guide uses his own boat and tackle, buys the fuel and sometimes even provides a sandwich lunch but...it still seems like a tad spendy...on the other hand I suppose we have to also count in a reduced search and rescue cost, as you doubtless know it's easy for the unknowledgable to get turned around in the many fjords and need to be escorted back...

  • Arnie (not verified)

    7 years ago

    Sam - you had me at least listening to your point until you started insulting the other guy. This is an important topic and a lot of us are thinking it through. Please don't diminish the debate, make your point. This ain't the WWF.

  • QCI Fisher (not verified)

    7 years ago

    Interesting thread especially some of Sams blatant promotion of some lodges while trying to slam others.

    Did you know that...

    - Even though Michael Coe (an American)and his offshore owned company West Coast Resorts, have a "ground breaking arrangement in place with the Haidas" that hey are one of the lodge groups that don't have foreshore leases in place and therefore don't pay any form of tax at all?

    - that the ship based floating lodges (OBMG and the converted tugs) are the most highly inspected and regulated lodges on the coast in terms of safety and environmental impacts. The barge operations (like West Coast Resorts) are the least inspected and regulated. That may have something to do with why it was a barge, and not a ship that sank in Naden Harbor this year.

    With regards to the others - business is a fact of life in BC, get over it. No one is stopping you, the First Nations of BC or anyone else from starting your own lodge or other business and adding some value to the provincial economy using the resources of which we are all blessed. If you choose not to, great, but its unfortunate that you have to resent and disparage the entrepenurial spirit of others.

    When I last checked, Salmon and other tidal fish were a common property resource owned by all Canadians. Its been proven time and again (in spite of the protests of Mr. Disney and his associates) that lodge and charter based use of Salmon is by far the most sustainable and economically valuable use of this resource. If we are going to use this resource for economic gain, the shouldn't we place priority on the type of use thats been proven to produce the biggest economic bang for the buck with the lowest impact?

    Should they be taxed? Certainly, but only if all other similar businesses in the region are subject to the same tax. My understanding is that this was not the case with regards to this particular tax. Fair is fair and this tax isn't.

    • No best comments selected by an editor for this story yet. To see all comments, click the All Comments tab, above.
    • The discussion for this story is closed. No more comments can be added.