honorifics---come on give us a break.

A very timely article considering the very tragic accident on the upper levels a few days ago. Upon hearing of this accident Sleep deprivation came to my mind, I know ,I also drove for a living.

Look, union membership is dropping so unions have to try to get shorter working hours for their members so that companies will hire more drivers and thus increase their membership. It just like the environmental groups out in BC that have membership dropping off so they have to have logging road blockaded and have the media show up and have it broadcast-t around the world so that more people might consider joining their cause. Things have'nt changed that much in the Forest Sector of BC. Indepentant drivers in the Interior drive a lot longer than the Coastal Union Members and in some cases on lousier roads and very few of them are involved in accidents. It has more to do with up keep on trucks and pre-trip/post-trips on the trucks.

I hate to think of the times I've been run off the road by logging trucks. The Island is the worst - the crummies drive slow out to the blocks and the log trucks don't give you the smallest amount of room. I'm sure it's only a few guys, but it's scary enough to make all of them suspect.

Maybe it's time to lay off the crysyal meth Zar, pullover and have a liitle nap you ding-bat.

BC need more mobile DOT... the Hours of Service should be reviewed, and in most cases, shortened. There is a 160 km (100 mi) radius that drivers' don't have to run 'log books' (hours of service books), but they MUST still comply with Provincial Laws. I am in Alberta and am APPLAUDED that drivers work the hours they do.... AND FOR WHAT? They lose their family, their lives, and everything they cherish just to deliver the goods us, as consumers can’t live without. Everything we own a trucker has delivered, and yet this group of hard working men and women (not just in the logging profession) go basically unnoticed until your precious goods are not on the shelves, or delivered on time. Canada is in need of 50,000 drivers... now.. Not tomorrow, not next week... NOW! The demand is WAY too high on these people to succeed at their jobs, and still please everyone along the way. Next time you are passing a truck, think of the men and women that work the long, hard hours. ... The people behind the scenes in the fuel depots (truck stops), the shippers/receivers, and all hard working people that put in 15 hours a day, or so. So quit bitc***g about drivers’ sleep deprivation and do something about it. Change the laws, order the government to take a stand, and help these people that hold the motoring public’s lives in their hands. PS.... if you work out the hourly wages of a lot of truck driver’s vs. the hours they actually put in.... it works out to less than minimum wage.... Sometimes less than $1.00 per hour! Suck that one up!

First off "Zar's" comment on unions plugging for "shorter working hours" to increase work hours per member, is ridiculous & utter tripe. I'm sick to death of union bashing. Simply put, unions are for working people, how bad can that be? Grab a brain! However, back on subject, an imposed 11.5 hour shift with three deliveries per day is pushing the envelope to the extreme for truckers. I live on Vancouver Island and, just recently, I was waiting on the main highway to make a left hand turn onto a secondary road when up the Island highway comes a fully loaded logging truck in a 80 kph zone pushing 100+ kph...he was barelling up behind a car doing the speed limit when he decides to pass. He yarded on the wheel so sharply that the top three logs on the truck shifted, I thought the whole unit was going to tip over. I was a sitting duck and thought "great I'm going to buy it right here, right now". It was obvious he gunned the accelerator to shift the load back and I was thankful he was only in a mad rush and not nodding off to sleep. I will not drive anywhere near a logging truck these days and wonder at the condition of their tires...I've seen too many bald ones, plus blow-outs...not to mention when ever would truckers get time to perform repairs and maintenance when they are either on the road or sleeping...11.5 hours is almost 1/2 of 24 people...figure it out! All the gains society has made towards safe standards of employment and decent working conditions have deteriorated to Third World conditions since the Liberals cut red tape and thrown the province wide open to "anything goes" as long as the stinking bottom line, more important then human lives, is thriving. Such a great value system, eh? What are we going to do about it?

Yeah Zar,ya can't pin exploitation on the greens you dimwit. Someone's gotta say something about industrial lemmings. The cliff is approaching. After years of brual community-killing layoffs and fastidious re-tooling, the "beast-that- shaves-hillsides" does OK in a pinch. The big corps. that control BC forests now have humans where they want them: as insecure disorganized plug-ins to a highly efficient mechanical extraction of BC wood. It's been a boom year, cubic meters per second floating away. The current flood of fibre, expediated by fiberal policy shift and momentary markets, has hit a somewhat vacated industry in the union halls and independant coffee shops. Things'll only slow down with an 85 cent dollar, not with a flurry of roadside memorials to peripheralized people.

Logging truck drivers are like everyone else--truck driver or mill worker or store clerk--we all get tired and 12 hours is long day to sit at the wheel of a multi ton missle. Ever try driving for 12 leisure hours? Then think of how Weyco forced the trucker involved in last week's fatal accident to drive from Port Alberni to the Fraser River Log Export dump to buy logs originating in Port Alberni. That driver needed a union to help him before the accident.

Seems to me that the IWA and related Unions are at fault for accepting the longer shifts in the first place.

Interesting article Quentin. Just for interest sake, a "truck logger" is a logging contractor. These guys are truck drivers. And jack is correct: they need to be in a union. Regards from a fellow former sufferer at the old Powell River News, now with USWA. K.

As a former log truck driver I will tell you that a 12 hour day is too much, and I've put in many. I worked for Weyerhauser and my very last day was a 30 hour day! Weyerhauser built a strictly off-road haul where I was working, none of the provincial driving restrictions applied and log books were not necessary. In fact on my 30 hour day I was supposed to keep on working but the road gave away and they called it a day(s). I once got chewed out by my supervisor for working two consecutive 9 hour days, he asked me if I was on vacation.

It has been my experience that most of the log truck drivers, especially owner operators, are overworked and underpaid. We are giving these goddam logs away and only the big company shareholders are truly making any money. My father who's been in the business for over 20 years can finally see the light of environmentalism as can many other ol'tyme loggers. There's no point in cutting it all down and working like a maniac, you only ever get as far as making the payments on that $200,000 rig or $500,000 grapple skidder.

I have to add my concerns for the hundreds of commercial dump trucks within the downtown core of Vancouver due to rise in construction for 2010(partytime-olympicks-my ass)Jake-breaking creates an industrial noise pollution further amplified by high reflective surfaces in the city core, and is technically illegle under by laws in the city. These commercial drivers are not interested in slowing down ,but rather as a habit, speed and rely on the emergency they create by speeding to justify their jake breaking. It is a MAJOR problem in Van at present and no or little enforcement takes place.The mayor and council are not responding to this problem as I witness jake breaking in every corner of this city , the east, UBC entrance all complain about this problem and nothing gets done and the truckers know it and abuse residents in the pursit of making a living. We dont mind a living being made but it is at the cost of our quality of life, and it is a noise that breaks the camels back, and one that rises well above the normal noise of cities associated with police,fire and emergency vehicles..There is an accident in waiting due to the speed that some of these truckers use,.they disregard the by laws which creates animosity for residents who are impacted by this jake breaking noise..There should be a province wide look and resolution of this specific problem from commercial trucks..

K-kanada - so sorry about the noise, but I think we're talking people's lives, here. The perpetuation of the bloated multi-national company will be a continuation of the lives of employees and innocent by-standers being put at risk. In the Okanagan, many of our one lane highways are death traps; exhausted drivers trying desperately to make the schedules set by profit hungry corporations make a simple 30 km trip an extreme sport. And we, as the ever demanding consumers, have our own burdens of guilt to bear. If our world had a little less of the "I want what I want when I want it" mentality, perhaps there would be more room for realistic business practises.

Jake braking you say. I would much rather a trucker use their jake brake than overheat the brakes on their truck while all of the idiot drivers in Vancouver pull out in front of them only to turn left just up the street. I've driven dump trucks in Vancouver and jake brakes are necessary. Truck drivers on average and statistically are much safer and more trained than your average driver, perhaps we should be worried more about the people in small cars that constantly pull out in front of trucks. I would always give a very large cushion on the upper levels highway only to have many many cars pass me and then pull into my cushion, resulting in me slowing down even more to give back the cushion.

I have never met a truck driver, and I know many, who wants to speed around from site to site. The reality is that they are pushed by supervisors and employers to be quicker all of the time, I've been there believe me. When I was part of a construction crew building a new section on the Transcanada we weren't held back by speed limits, don't think that I enjoyed driving a loaded dump truck at 115 km/h in a 70 km/h construction zone. It was either drive that fast or look for a new job.

Jake brakes make all of these so-called "dangerous" trucks much safer. To limit their use is foolish, that's why the law isn't enforced and most police officers have the common sense to acknowledge this.

Now how the hell is gold rush Gordie supposed to send a record amount of our raw logs down south and at the same time promise the non-union truck loggers at the last “truck loggers convention” that this was going to be “your year”? Come on you dumb asses, don’t ya know It’s a whole “new error” of profit over people. Wake up and face the facts that it is now a global corporate business economy, run by Wal-Mart. ;-)

AMEN KAYBERTOSS!!!!!!!!! You got that right... but we are Canadian, EH!!! we sit and bit** and take it up the @$$ like the "good, nice neighbours from the North"... and don't do a damn thing about it. Stand up... Stop this in Canada... and instead of bitc**** about this... let's do something

did you even read the article sd green?.. The unions had this IMPOSED on them. Arbitrators these days also seem to be in the back pocket of business and like minded campbell government. Know this, unions are still fighting for workers rights although all the union bashing that the average citizen puts out nowadays doesn't help. The standard of living for middle Canadians is being pushed down as fast as the corps can take them. This problem of tired truckers is just one of many. And yes, sd green, your standard of living will go down as well, union or not.

Add too many hours and the speeds at which these trucks haul down back roads and highways (how about 140 Km/h down Lake Cowichan Highway!) is a recipe for disaster. It's a frightening scene looking in my rear view mirror, driving my sub-compact car, when I see one of these rigs closing in on me with no place to go. All for the love of money. Slow down before you kill someone, maybe your own.

If employers are intimidating drivers into running their rigs too fast and over too many hours, then it would seem the drivers' union or, if not unionized, co-workers have a responsiblity to insist the illegal actions enforced by the employer stop. If the employer ignores the union or the workers, then it would appear the provincial government, which regulates the labour code, WCB, the Highways Act and various other acts and regulations meant to protect workers and the general public, is both legally and morally bound to take action. If a government that has the resources and the trained staff to enforce their own rules, if it wants to, but doesn't, it would seem to me citizens then have every right in the world to employ whatever actions (short of violence) to protect themselves and fellow human beings from those dangers. You can accuse me of inciting anarchy if you wish. I see it as combating corporate anarchy. As the Ford Motors ad proudly states "At Ford safety is Job #1, which sounds equally fitting for our forest industry, don't you think? Safety First!

Yes I agree Allan, however it is easier to say than to do. This is an industry-wide issue, not just a Vancouver or a British Columbia problem, its happening across the country. There isn't much that the workers can do, most of the unions I've been involved in try to make a stand but ultimately cave to multinational pressure. On a more positive note I will say that my experiences were somewhat better when dealing with smaller companies like Abitibi Consolidated or smaller construction contractors. Once the multinationals like Weyerhauser become involved things really hit the fan. On one hand Weyerhauser claims safety is number one and backs this by imposing strict millyard safety and things like fall restraint systems. On the other hand when nobody is looking (read the government) they will tell you to do some incredibly dangerous things, I've had to hand-roll 500lb logs off of the top of a logging truck!

The government enforcement is a whole other ballgame. Roadside safety checks are a joke, they are very easy to circumvent and it is nearly impossible to discover logbook fraud. In my opinion the only way things are going to change is if the government goes to the company's and tells them that this has gone far enough and that they will be closely watching. Your average equipment owner or truck driver cannot risk financial ruin only to not make a difference. I've seen Weyerhauser bring equipment owners and workers from as far as three provinces away when they want to squash a worker uprising. Trust me it works every time when you have people with payments of 2 to 5 grand a month.

A little more. Again I think that the government could easily audit the books of these corporations and discover how many people it took to complete a contract and how many hours they worked. This information could then be compared to expert generated job estimates, I think most people would find the results staggering as I know many people in logging and construction who work more than 60 hours a week.

Peepers I agree, things have to change. In simple terms I feel many trucks are far to large and carry far to much weight to safely share the roads with ordinary vehicles in B.C. Many of our roads, highways,bridges are of 1950's,60's and 70's vintage and cannot safely accommodate these large trucks, eg, the location of the tragic accident last week on the upper levels highway I've heard and read that at the location of this accident,the high way is narrow and that it takes an unusual turn or twist, more than likely the road is 50's,60's or 70's technology, with present day large trucks using it. The engineers and bureaucrats that allow these conditons to exist should be dragged through the courts,sued, fined, and possibly jailed. Due to their incompetence, people are dead, dying and injured,as these jerks go driveing around with their heads up their asses looking for nothing to do. The unit involved in that tragic accident was it a hay rack type trailer?Were the stakes mounted on a flat deck trailer(high boy) or was it a custom built hay rack trailer? Great deal of structual difference between the to.

Mr. Coffee, I agree taking any action is easier to talk about than do, but if it's of sufficient concern and the death of two women last week seems sufficent to me, then the issue is larger than the livelihood of truckers. Anyone who feels at risk, in my opinion, has the right to try to put a stop to this madness. While I sympathise with owner-operators who may be slaves to the banks and to Weyerheauser Canada's quest for a quick buck, I have a lot more sympathy for the families of people killed and injured due to accidents caused by tired, scared or just bad drivers. When you are driving 13 or more hours every day of the week and trying to meet cycle expectations set by the employer, you can be classed as either tired or scared, but the end result is you are a bad driver if an accident you cause kills someone. I also agree that better auditing could and should be done to weed out these problems, but recent history has proven this provincial government and most of its ministry's or agencies are not about to take any action until they are forced into it. Perhaps a couple of BC ferries with blockaded logging trucks holding things up is one means of getting a communications link to the premier's offices.

EXACTLY Henry! Thank you. We need improvements, across this country, just to keep up with today's transportation needs! Mr. Coffee: "The government enforcement is a whole other ballgame. Roadside safety checks are a joke, they are very easy to circumvent and it is nearly impossible to discover logbook fraud.".... That's the biggest line of crap I've heard... Mobile patrols with your Department of Transportation (DOT)... Set up more scales, or more patrols... not downgrade and cut wages like in your Province... Train the experts to be experts! Allow the DOT to either charge a driver with 'shaving hours' from a log book or... give him/her a speeding ticket because it took them..... say.. in their log book 1.0 H from Campbell River to Nanamio!!!!! Falsified Log book? Speeding Ticket?... or BOTH! BC has a NSC (National Safety Code) phone #... take down company names/plate #'s and start complaining!!!!

Peepers its not a line of crap, I never filled out a logbook in 7 years of trucking. I'm telling you based on my experience not supposition.

K-kanada it's not the Jake brake or Driver that is the problem. It's the lack of a muffler or the use of an inferior muffler,there are regulations in place regarding this type of noise, force the Cops and or the M.O.T. (DOT) to carry out their duties, and or force the W.C.B.to act on it as well. The resources are there use them.

This is a multi-part problem, I'll try to work my way through them while the coffee lasts. 1. Vehicle safety enforcement is a joke. The few roadblocks/inspections that happen typically find about 1/3 of the trucks checked are unfit to be on the road. This is consistent over time and seems to me to mean that at any given time 1/3 of the trucks out there are endangering the public, although the sample size is pretty small. They should ramp up the inspections to the point that every truckand trailer is inspected at least twice a year. 2. As long as truckers are paid by the mile or the load the beancounters will try to squeeze them and they have a huge incentive to make more by going faster longer. Pay them by the hour. I know it's tricky but it can be done and it's worth it to remove that incentive. Sure there will be those who abuse the system but better to err on the side of slow & safe. 3. There are more logs travelling farther to fewer mills. The logs that used to go to the Tolco mill at Barriere are now going way the hell up north somewhere and the Barriere mill isn't being rebuilt. Whenever I travel here on the Island I see an endless supply of logging trucks going in both directions. Processing the logs near the source rather than trucking them farther to fewer, more "efficient" mills and rationalizing the distribution would seem to make sense from a safety point of view. 4. Mixing huge trucks that want to speed with cars that are content (some of them) to drive along near the speed limit is just asking for trouble and the trucks are getting bigger. Most that I see have 3 axles, I don't know the weight limits but I know that extra axle isn't for looks. More trucks means more wear on the roads and who is paying for it? I'm out of coffee now.

Brian, you summed it up well. Just a note on the Barriere sawmill. Had it burned down in April 2003, Tolko Industries would have been required to rebuild and re-employ about 200 production workers in the Barriere area. Unfortunately for those workers, who represented the mainstay of that community, the Liberal government ammended the Forests Act in May 2003, removing the requirement that resource extraction be tied to local jobs. Along came the McLure/Barriere fire of 2003 that burned the mill and many homes in the area. Insurance and a desire to remain in the community prompted many to rebuild. Unfortunately, the government give-away to the industry three months prior meant the community's largest employment base was history. One more thing: your reference to the fully loaded logging trucks you see regularly heading in opposite directions on the island is, I feel, one of those great contradictions to the myth of the superior efficiency of the free-enterprise system. A touch of central planning would be a refreshing change in this resource-exploiting industry.

K-kanada - Something I should have mentioned,just because you see exhaust pipes on trucks (usually mounted near the rear of the truck cab, and pointing upward)does not necessarlly mean the truck has a muffler. The truckers refer to these exhaust pipes as stacks,a considerable number of these stacks are straight pipes( in trucker languge striaght pipe or pipes means no muffler) Many truckers have now installed the larger 5 inch pipes(stacks)Im sure the regular size is 4 inch, this in turn causes a deeper throatier sound on acceleration, and a loud snapping sound upon using the jake brake. Any experienced trucker could easily point out to you the differnce between a muffed pipe or sraight pipe, for sure the M.O.T know what to look for.Phone I.C.B.C. that's where these dip turds are head quartered. Make them do their jobs.

Yes good point Henry, I used to drive a truck that was certified under California Noise Emission laws. It had a fantastic muffler system and the jake brake was barely audible over the regular noise of a truck. It is possible to have quieter trucks and jake brakes, and it is much safer to have truckers use the jake brakes.

I live near Campbell River on Hwy 28--road to Gold River. I have lived there now for just over 12 months. I that time I have seem 5 Logging trucks, I dumpter truck, one conrete truck go in the ditches. I believe it is only a matter of time before one of these truck will land on an innocent on-coming car. When that happens I hope they sue for that its worth, if they are still able to--because that is what it will take to change the current approach by industry and government.

Mr. Coffee I have never driven state side(and I never will)Could you can answer this for me.Drivers tell me that in some states, but particularly in California, that no matter how many axles a unit has (truck and trailer) your allowed 88,000 lbs max, thats it, period. We can run up to 144,ooo lbs here in B.C. correct. The rig that was involved in those fatalities on the upper levels must have been grossed out at around 100,000 lbs correct.Speaking of quiet jakes, in 92 I drove a new Western Star with a series 60 up front, Im sure I could have driven up behind a jack rabbit with out him hearing me with the jake on, it was one quiet truck, I've driven many before and after, but that one had to be the quietest.Im trying not to ramble here but I want to make readers aware that there is no reason or excuse for a noisy jake brake.

Actually I've never driven state side either but I have heard similar things about GVW, but of course it varies from state to state. I think that GVW's are too high but I feel that most governments won't tackle these issues of less weight and less hours for drivers. If they did it would probably have some serious implications on the cost of goods which in turn could cause inflation.

Agreed about the quieter jake's, that's exactly what I was trying to point out because I just hate to see an outright ban on jake brakes. I've driven a couple of noisy ones myself, a bunch with series 60's in fact.

"Automobile Accidents--Are You Safe?" at http://www.watchtower.org/library/g/2002/8/22/article_01.htm

It's interesting that a subject that effects anyone who lives, or ventures, outside the major urban areas has tailed off into a discussion of the Jacobs Engine Brake. Meanwhile other less immediately dangerous topics ramble on seemingly forever. Not only do we take driving for granted, we seem to take bad, dangerous driving for granted, just another cost of doing business. I'm thinking that the almost complete lack of traffic enforcement we currently enjoy has something to do with this atitude. Just as the cop on the beat has turned into the cop in a cruiser reacting to problems, not preventing them, so too has the traffic cop turned into a revenue enhancing speed trap practitioner. I say bust 'em before they cause an accident. Back to jske brakes, you learn to appreciate them when they quit in The Canyon.

Im a newbie to this site and i found it while i was doing a report on removing the Engine Brake Ordinance. Just to say, a lot of the new Frieghtliner Century class semi's have an extremely quiet jake brake. My dad drives for Schneider Specialized and when he comes home at night, I don't even realize he is home until i see the lights on the buildings. And I know that there are lots of trucks running with modified or unmuffled exhausts. There is times that I can hear a truck running the engine brake for at least 3 miles once they pass my house. I think the ordinances are useless, but I also think that environmentalists should start bi***ing about the unmuffled exhausts because they smell like hell and can't do much for the environment.

I just found the web site, weyehauser needs to pull there heads out of there ass. I work at the shit hole 11.5 hours running a log processor,i would like to take a pencil pushing upper managment idiot and have him work 11.5 hours at no over time........meat heads. the time for a fatality is comming real soon.......

Like I said:

Using Weyerhauser as an example is crazy. They are the worst lying bastards in the industry. They preach safety, fail to fulfill there road maintenance responsibility,and then chissel the truck rate (log hauling) down so low that there is not enough money in it to make a decent living.So the guy trying to make a living hauling has to go like hell to make a dollar on the worst roads anywhere. So you might as well take all your safety rules and throw them out the window, because you now have trucks travelling faster than they should on roads that are far too rough, carrying payloads way heavier than a class 8 truck is designed to haul.Those ignorant lying brain dead fucks then blame the accidents on the truckers when the truckers are forced to work in these weyerhauser implemented conditions. If that isn't enough they have the balls to print an anual report showing a quarterly proffit in the millions. The safety rules and especially environmental rules only apply when it is in there favor. I have seen the stringent requirements for a contract logger to cross a small creek in a block, but weyco's company logging outfit just toss a few logs in the creek and skid wood like a bastard. Then after that and hundreads of other examples that I don't have time to get into, they go around mouthing off "The future is growing at Weyerhauser" like they are all concerned about anybody or anything but themselves.BULLSHIT!! The lying fucks are a discrace to the logging industry and using that comunist fucked-up outfit as an example of todays logging standards is just giving the industry as a whole a bad rap. I especially feel for the men and women in the industry that do a good job and take pride in there work because it is those individuals who are getting judged unfairly because of that fucked-up outfit. There are dumb-fucks in management positions at that company that can hardly tie there own fucking shoelaces,and its those retards that are implementing rules and regulations that the working man has to follow and in turn is beeing judged by....What gives them the right to make you look like an incompetent dumb fuck while they make millions?

Using Weyerhauser as an example is crazy. They are the worst lying bastards in the industry. They preach safety, fail to fulfill there road maintenance responsibility,and then chissel the truck rate (log hauling) down so low that there is not enough money in it to make a decent living.So the guy trying to make a living hauling has to go like hell to make a dollar on the worst roads anywhere. So you might as well take all your safety rules and throw them out the window, because you now have trucks travelling faster than they should on roads that are far too rough, carrying payloads way heavier than a class 8 truck is designed to haul.Those ignorant lying brain dead fucks then blame the accidents on the truckers when the truckers are forced to work in these weyerhauser implemented conditions. If that isn't enough they have the balls to print an anual report showing a quarterly proffit in the millions. The safety rules and especially environmental rules only apply when it is in there favor. I have seen the stringent requirements for a contract logger to cross a small creek in a block, but weyco's company logging outfit just toss a few logs in the creek and skid wood like a bastard. Then after that and hundreads of other examples that I don't have time to get into, they go around mouthing off "The future is growing at Weyerhauser" like they are all concerned about anybody or anything but themselves.BULLSHIT!! The lying fucks are a discrace to the logging industry and using that comunist fucked-up outfit as an example of todays logging standards is just giving the industry as a whole a bad rap. I especially feel for the men and women in the industry that do a good job and take pride in there work because it is those individuals who are getting judged unfairly because of that fucked-up outfit. There are dumb-fucks in management positions at that company that can hardly tie there own fucking shoelaces,and its those retards that are implementing rules and regulations that the working man has to follow and in turn is beeing judged by....What gives them the right to make you look like an incompetent dumb fuck while they make millions?