“Ritalin is More Potent Than Cocaine” at http://www.mercola.com/2001/sep/26/ritalin.htm

As a parent of a child with ADHD (among some other issues) we found Dexedrine effective, but had the same sleep issues. A psychiatrist suggested taking the Dexedrine in the morning and takng 3mg of melatonin 30min before bed time. It was very effective. Melatonin is available by mail order from GNC in Bellingham. Good luck. This is a very real but also treatable problem and left untreated and misunderstood, it can have a devastating impact on a person's self esteem. No one should have to experience repeated frustration and failure caused by ADHD.

My friend was diagnosed with ADD at age 12, and was give ritalin to calm him down. But he didn't take the pills with water, he crushed them up and snorted them.

Please, ADD and ADHD are concoctions of drug makers out to make money. I mean, think about it, the number 1 qualifying factor of ADD and ADHD is underachievement.

How many of our little underachievers give close attention to details or make careless mistakes, have difficulty sustaining attention in tasks or play, don't seem to listen when spoken to directly, don't follow through on instructions and fail to finish schoolwork or chores? Sounds like most kids to me...How many of us want to see our kids become as successful as their motivation, efforts, intellects and abilities seem to indicate? Sounds like most of us to me...Just pop a few little pills and watch the rise out of mediocrity - how handy.

Ritalin is an amphetamine, and the long term effects of amphetamines include lowered immune system effectiveness, heart problems, stroke, liver, kidney and lung damage and erectile dysfunction - but, there's always Viagra, isn't there...

My brother was having a few problems with night terrors and fitting in when he was about 10. He was immediately diagnosed with ADD and put on Dexedrine. The poor kid turned into a full-time zombie, stopped sleeping, and lost an alarming amount of weight. My mom pulled him off the drugs of her own volition and took him to see a behavioural therapist instead. He turned out fine. It was only many years later, when he obtained his medical records to apply to the military, that we discovered the initial doctor never actually diagnosed him with ADD. She just prescribed the Dexedrine as a quick fix without any further investigation - just as many doctors do for kids that seem "not quite right." Obviously stimulants are a godsend for those who really have ADHD/ADD and truly need them, but just like antidepressants, they seem to have made the medical profession lazy about treating illness in the way that's best for the patient, rather than easiest for the doctor. It also does a disservice to those who truly do suffer from ADD/ADHD, by lumping them together with "troubled kids" who may need a whole other set of treatments.

“Creation of the Modern Medical (Drug) Establishment, Flexner Report, Rockefeller, Carnegie Foundations” at http://www.sntp.net/fda/piper_griffin.htm

“It's Official: TV Linked to Attention Deficit” at http://www.whitedot.org/issue/iss_story.asp?slug=ADHD%20Toddlers

"Sounds like most of us to me..." says Rob.

I certainly thought someone, maybe through Maximus, had managed to get ahold of and make public, my personal profile.

But in the New World Order, in which children are in fact raised in school "factory" systems, rather more than by parents or a parent, and the factory system's time and motion study logic is the driving force, keeping staffing levels to an absolute minimum "cost effectiveness", as determined by the much vaunted "free market forces", the little blighters are expected to perform like wee, mindless robots, absorbing and churning out the system's notions of facts. (The better to be workers in the "real" world, at least as understood by "the system".)

Distracted by the colour and song of the robin outside the window is he, the little bugger? Give the wee beggar a "mind control" pill. (Until we can figure out how to install the appropriate system of on, off and performance switches into them.)

Come on! Stop the bullshit! We force them into schools, and tie them up so goddamn much in "organized" learning/regimentation activities, often way before they are ready mentally or physically, or is viably healthy, making fat little "artificial" gamers of them, that we rob them of spontaneity and the simple "playful" physical and imagination joys of being children. Over achiever/ under achiever! Complete horseshit! For what? Again, the bottomline needs of these same bloated, spoiled brat Market Forces darlings.

And when they don't fit into our "market driven models", then something has to be wrong with the children. Give them another pill. That'll get them performing to "accepted" standards.

The reduced consumption, family planning world of the future, often of which need there is much talk here, would have a better chance of coming into being with an increase in the number of so-called "under achievers", not so obsessed with the "free market forces" and the accumulation of obscene levels of "stuff". They might even actually be able to think more creatively and CRITICALLY, than be merely "regurgitatively" learned.

Mostly, there's dick all wrong with the dreamers, even the hyperactive dreamers. Sometimes it really is the world that is all fucked up. (Let Jean Binette rave piously. :-)

I think there is something really creepy about it all.

If swallowing pills can alter body chemistry enough to alter behaviour, it is also likely that swallowing more organic fruits and vegetables may also alter behaviour. Eliminating processed food and adding long-distance running 5k+ (cardio-vascular exercise) could also alter body chemistry. Sleep quality will improve and this is known to alter body chemistry. It will probably take about 4-8 weeks, but it is an experiment worth taking.

Check out the following website for a new look at ADD and ADHD. www.childrenofthenewearth.com

ADD, SADD and countless other diseases are created by marketing and pharmaceutical companies. Why do people want to believe a dubious diagnosis so they can be prescribed drugs rather than take responsibility for their own diet, lifestyle and actions? http://eatthestate.org/02-44/DiseaseChildhood.htm

I'm with Coyote and those like-minded, I mean give me a break. When I was a kid we watched limited tv, no sugary snacks and no pop in the house EVER (except ginger ale for tummy aches :) and my mum would tell us to get outside and play/exercise. Funny how we were never diagnosed with "attention deficit" problems (diet, lifestyle).

Though maybe I did have it, coming to think of it, for year after year on my elementary school report cards were the words "Fiona is a bit of a daydreamer- she is always gazing out the window and needs to be called on continuously to pay attention". I think I snagged a window seat in school for 12 straight years.... Luckily my mum and dad thought this was sonewhat of a positive thing and didn't haul me off to a doctor to shoot me up. Yikes!

In spite of his "ADD / ADHD" Dee Hon managed to become the news editor for Terminal City and occasional contributer for the Tyee. Now he wants to load himself up with drugs and seems to be pretty stoked about it. I'm not familiar with the research on ADHD but with depression, Cognitive-Behavioural Therapy (a form of talk therapy focussed on dealing with your problems rather than drugging them) has been consistently shown to be more effective at reducing symptoms, and you don't need to take a pill every day for the rest of your life. In spite of this, the impression seems to be out there that there is a "biological revolution" in psychotherapy, where all personal challenges can be dealt with quickly by prescription. A big part of the problem is that people want to deal with life problems in the same way that McDonald's handles nutrition, and the long term results are likely to be about the same. As a counsellor, I have worked with people in their 20's who are struggling to get by without Ritalin after being force-fed it throughout their childhood and adolescence. Among other problems, my clinical experience has led me to believe that long-term Ritalin use may be associated with incapacitating apathy / lack of motivation. People in therapy, more generally, often insist that their "illness" has more control over their life than they do, and hand over responsibility for taking care of themselves to their doctor, pharmacist, and therapist. While Ritalin may indeed make Johnny a little easier to manage in the classroom, or at home after a stressful day at work, a fast-food approach to education or parenting is extremely disturbing in what it implies about our attitude towards living and our prospects for the future.

"Fiona is a bit of a daydreamer- she is always gazing out the window and needs to be called on continuously to pay attention". confesses Fiona.

Now I know what it is I liked about Fiona all along. We are kind of "kindred spirits".

Yes. Even kindred spirits can disagree from time to time. :-)

I think you are a sweetheart Fiona. A tough one.

And Paul, I'm not entirely sure what it is you do, not that it matters awfully, but I did find your piece here extremely interesting. And it certainly fits in with my entirely personal observations.

Especially however, I agree with your concluding statement that, "While Ritalin may indeed make Johnny a little easier to manage in the classroom, or at home after a stressful day at work, a fast-food approach to education or parenting is extremely disturbing in what it implies about our attituce towards living and our prospect for the future."

Which strikes closest to the heart of the matter, I think. And in case it is not clear, I agree entirely with that. :-)

Thank you for you view.

http://www.sweetkid.com/customers.htm

http://www.addgroup.org/

“Journal Article about ADHD, ADD, Ritalin Hazards by Peter R. Breggin, MD and Ginger Ross Breggin” at http://www.breggin.com/methylphen.html

There is something not quite right with this article. First it begins with the judgments of wife, family and scores of teachers. Then it zeroes in on a psychiatrist's diagnosis --- all pointing at something terribly, terribly wrong. Then, in the second paragraph, we find out what's the matter:The author can't sit still, shut up or follow rules. Excuse me, but my jaw just hit the desk.

I'm missing some major pieces of information, Dee, because these sound like character attributes, not genetic flaws. I can understand why authoritarians would have issues with them. As for the academic underachieving, non-McJob business ... sorry, I just don't get it. First of all, that it's a problem. Secondly, why it's your particular problem. This isn't rhetorical. I really wonder.

“Ritalin alternative for attention deficit disorder ADD children” at http://www.retrainthebrain.com/

“ADHD Diet - ADD Diet Information” at http://www.newideas.net/adddiet.htm

http://eatthestate.org/02-44/DiseaseChildhood.htm

I thought this was the most interesting and informative piece of all those you posted Anonymous. Thanks for the read.

Read Dr Peter Breggin's books and search the internet BEFORE you place any one, especially children on these drugs. Read the package inserts - you can find those on the web. Too many parents and teachers and doctors are trying to find the easy way to deal with a new paradigm of children who are trying to teach US something. "Say No To Drugs" - yet we hand them out at home and school like candy!!!!

You people are terribly self righteous and have no idea what it's like to live with a,d/h.d.People with a.d.d are often bright which means that their problems are all the more frustrating. Untreated, they often end up depressed and with all kinds of problems keeping relationships and jobs not to mention finding keys for the billionth time and with a low frustration tolerance and 45 mins. spent looking.. and not finding,see how you feel. Good luck to the author. I was diagnosed at age 40 and am hoping I can tolerate a tiny dose of dexedrine without tics when I need to finish an article for my own self respect...

Wouldn't it be nice to have the gadgetry to help us regulate our own brain systems. For example, a screen that allows us to monitor the areas of the brain we are using at any one moment. (one area would light up etc.) I personally think that choice is the best option. If I am in a creative mood with lots of time to experiment with a project, I like to 'let my brain go' making connections and links between ideas that my otherwise time limited world wouldn't allow. Sometimes I need to think effeciently and linearly... remember Educating Rita? The thing that pains me is the child who wants to do something and can't, the child trying to draw or cut something on their own that keeps losing their focus and ends up with their head in their hands. Lets face it - we don't have a lot of medical knowledge behind this yet! Oh, and Dee - have you heard of oppositional defiance disorder? Careful of the slippery slope of medical maladies! Good book: Mel Levine's book The Myth of Laziness

My grandson was having problems in grade four, and causing problems for teachers and other kids. On Tuesday he was put on Ritalin. By Thursday the difference in his behaviour was noted. He was able to concentrate, he was able to focus, he was able to stop being the class clown. I thought well, I'm leery of medicating children but I can SEE the improvement... and so things went well right up until they fell apart... he went to middle school... he again couldn't stand the noise , the crowding, the scuffling in the hallways, etc. He started getting resistant, hated the idea of being on pills, being different, being "wierd"...it all fell apart, he spit out the pills, he refused to listen to anything anyone said..so he's out of school now, he's working at a shitty job, he still won't take any medication, and if I had it to do over again I think I'd just pull him out of school at the point where he was put on Ritalin because he'd have been HAPPIER. When he began resisting I reached out for help, discovered that most of the boys in the alternate school were in the same boat, they were refusing to take Ritalin (or any other medication). Like my grandson, they did not want to spend their lives on pills which made them feel wierd. My grandson's athletic skills plunged while he was on Ritalin, his soccer became of no interest to him, he stopped bushwhacking and tramping the trails, he was quieter, yes, but he was zombie'd. I wouldn't do it again. I wish I hadn't done it to begin with. Much of the trust between us was eroded and I regret that very much. All the things "wrong" with the boy could have been real benefits if ..........ah, IF....but things aren't different, his skills aren't "needed" in our urbanized society, and we haven't found how to HELP these kids, we've only found how to numb them. I regret very much that my grandson had to go through this particular hell but I have promised him that I won't allow any other kid in the family to be turned into chemicalized zombies. Even if his current job is low paid, insecure and probably exhausting, he is treated as an equal and THAT, more than anything else, seems to be what he needs. So much has changed and progressed in the past three hundred years and yet we still cram our kids into schools and try to teach them the same damn things the same damn way. And I really wonder, now, WHO decides these kids ARE problems, rather than HAVE them... the same adults who are popping Prozac? The adults who buy an ocean of alcohol? The witherdick men who take Viagra?

Im an adult with ADD Ive tried Dexedrine and Ritalin and have had no success .I wish I could find something to help.

So many people out there who do not have ADD self-righteously come up with thier own theories an how to deal with MY PROBLEM. This herb, that religion. Well I have news for you, 10 mg. of Ritalin twice a day improves my quality of life. The boss is happy, the wife is happy, and I have less close calls driving to boot. Drugs on thier own are not that helpful. However, drugs with a serious attempt do deal with the situation behavioural, *incremental improvement*, can really turn things around over time. ADD does not mean retarded, it means slow-to-develop and some of us ADDs will keep growing and outgrow a most of you so called normal people. Some of you who are posting here: get over yourself and your high and pious "if you just ate/prayed/acted like me" then you could be saved/cured/perfect like me. I am adult, ADD, on medication and doing very well thank-you. I am no longer scraping by.

WHY do you wish you could find something to help, anonymous? I just don't get what's supposed to be so terribly wrong with you. Why aren't you okay just the way you are?

Anna, I for one am not suggesting that medication is never helpful for anyone, and I certainly didn't mean to imply that people with "ADD / ADHD" don't have some serious challenges. If you feel, as an adult, that drugs are your best or only option, who am I to disagree? I apologize if I seemed dismissive of your situation. What disturbed me about the article was its cheerleader tone, and more generally what disturbs me is the widespread, first reflex prescription of drugs to children with "behaviour problems". It is important to realize that disorders like "ADD / ADHD" are collections of symptoms / behaviours that are observed by psychiatrists and psychologists. There is no test for "ADD / ADHD" that shows positive, like a blood test for AIDS, and therefore there is no objective reality to the disorder (as opposed to your and others' subjective experience, which I understand is quite real). Problems like difficulty concentrating or sitting still make sense only within certain social situations, like a classroom, where the ability to sit still and concentration of a specific kind (i.e. to written material or extended oral instruction) are simultaneously required. When large numbers of individuals require medication so that they can function within social situations that we design and control, we have to ask ourselves (as many of the readers obviously have) whether the problem is with the individuals, or with the social situation. Is it reasonable, for example, to ask 11-year-old children to sit inside at a desk for 5 hours a day reading and doing math problems? I think it's also reasonable to ask if there are other ways the difficulties individuals like you are experiencing might be dealt with, like mental exercises or changing aspects of your life where the problems are most challenging. It is my strong bias that medication, particularly when it's life long, be a very last resort, only taken when all other options have been explored and weighed against the costs and benefits of taking the drugs.

Why we wish we could find something to help isn't because there's something wrong with us...In some ways we've got it better than non a.d.d.ers...more spontaneous, more "in the moment" and so on...unfortuneatley though we can also be a lot more moody and have a lot of trouble with things other people take for granted like going into a grocery store and without getting completely overwhelmed coming out with a reasonable selection of groceries...making a meal without burning it or leaving out a critical ingredient,getting stressed and so ill extra easily because of our different wiring, finishing a project when it comes to a point where it needs organising, getting sexually used as a teen because we're "spaced out", being a parent without calling crisis lines from the stress and so on...it adds up...How about educating youselves...abouta.d.d.com is one source of info ...Thomas Hartman is good, Driven to Distraction is the classic, Lynn Weiss has written some good books. To the woman who thought her son would have been "happy" taken out of school instead of being put on ritalin don't count on it. My daughter may well also have the same wiring and I intend to ask for conscessions for her time wise at school...she's smart but has an extra slow pace....and let her know her options if and when she' wants to choose another way to get by.Good luck to you other a.d.d.ers and don't let ignorance get to you.

Paul, I appreciate your point of view,. I just a couple of days ago took out a book of exercises for a.d.d.ers and was most susrpried to see I'd been the last person to take it out before....Although it's frustrating there is humour in it...I quit a self empoyed importing business I'd been in with my hubby which i loved the adventure of but went completely raving stir crazy when it came to selling and am enjoying nannying, looking after other people with short attention spans and a sense of fun. It's true it's important to do work that "fits". Still I do have another ambition that will take some focussing capacity and my brief time with stimulants before the tics set in showed me a tempting possibility. Now it seems I'm getting stuck on this page so I've got to go get my daughter to bed {takes some time.....]Anna

Damned fine piece of writing, Anne Cameron. But then, I know you as a woman with insights. My time was well before Ritalin, thank God, or they would have had me on it, I know. (Still can't stand "authority". Even tried to strangle an officer in the military.) That said, life is a struggle anyway, unless you're born with a silver spoon in your mouth, and many are rolled under the wheels of the freight train, even the so-called "normals". But some make it. I did. And looking back, it was an interesting life. And I don't regret the many diverse trails I wandered one bloody bit, and it doesn't seem to have seriously harmed my family none. Though we were a band of gypsies. Good strong and loving women all.

I wouldn't want to have to do it again mind, but eh, that's not going to happen anyway.

I hope it all works out for your grandson, and with good folks like yourself around, it usually does. There's more to life than these friggin' over-achievers will ever get their heads and their emotions around anyway, like bushwhacking and humping the trails of the backwoods. If it works out for him like it did me, it'll keep him sane, and give him an understanding of life and nature that many a "normal" would eat out their dried prune hearts for.

Besides, time even settles we "differents"-, some. Though goodness knows, I don't know what I'd do without the old lady to keep track of my keys, as somebody mentioned here, and everybody's names and birthdays, and the other minutia of my life. I mean, how important is that anyway?

Tell him, he's gonna need to look for a woman with patience, of which there is NOT an over abundance. :-) And good in bed helps. (They ain't all.:-)

But seriously, your experience with your grandson rang lots of old bells in the belfry. (I've got a really talented, artistic and funny grandson the friggin' school system is testing right now, in the hopes they can persuade his mother to put him on Ritalin. I hope she's as smart as I think she is, and tells 'em to fuck off. If he wants to later, that's up to him.)

A good night to y'all.

It's one of those "things" that tells ya, it's all really messed up out there. Makes you feel like an alien from another planet sometimes.

Look, Anna. I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm barking up the wrong tree here, but I do take issue with a psychiatric diagnosis of symptoms that actually make the afflicted person sound ... well, heroic, frankly, and the unafflicted like some sort of scary compliant pod-people. In this day and age, you seriously have to wonder about kids that sit down, shut up and never break the rules. To whom would that sort of behaviour be considered desirable except to control freaks?

Now, I know people with mental illness --- schizophrenia, psychotic breaks, mania --- and the meds are a heavy regime, a life sentence of balancing dosages with ongoing physical, emotional and mental side-effects. The only possible justification for taking the drugs is that the alternative, going without, is so life-shattering. Is ADD or ADHD that bad?

I just have to call into question what sort of behaviour is "problem behaviour"? For whom and why? For the numbers of people diagnosed with it in Canada, we haven't exactly had a bunch of Ulrike Meinhofs running around.

And now for something completely different ! http://www.metagifted.org/topics/metagifted/indigo/ wander around in this site and see if this very different perception is a better way of veiwing the lable

Very informative piece. I was very interested in the statistical data, but author fails to mention if data is Canadian, North American, or Worldwide... which makes it quite meaningless. I liked the piece, though.

I agree with Coyote. Its only because we force kids into these prisons called schools that these problems arise. I think ADDS and ADHD are manufactured "illnesses" created to help the drug companies can push their dope on us - meanwhile of course, a harmless weed is illegal...

I agree with Coyote. Its only because we force kids into these prisons called schools that these problems arise. I think ADDS and ADHD are manufactured "illnesses" created to help the drug companies push their dope on us - meanwhile of course, a harmless weed is illegal... What a crazy ass-backwards world!

Diogenes, I am not and my daughter is not from another planet [!] one of the premises of indigo children. Also by the way I am not for drugging children.

It is natural to be spontaneous. Contemporary schools, largely, are not. Children are naturally curious and impulsive. They break the status quo, of boudaries by nature. This is an imperative (in my view) of life - to create, to seek what is unique and personally meaningful.

Drugging children (or adults) is an utter monstrosity, that is "systemic" - and a representation of "fundamentalist" belief systems, "fundamentalist", in terms of individuals that do not trust spontaneity, nor their inner natures. That can include those so calling themselves "religious", or "scientific".

Chemistry follows imagination and belief. Try even a rudimentary imagination experiment and the result will be obvious. Imagine an outcome of telling people otherwise. Now that's schizophrenia - a systemic schism of ideas. Those beliefs are in vogue. Such beliefes are espoused by individuals who presume that peoples minds and bodies are like cars - a little chemical "patch" will fix the broken "biochemistry" of thought and ideas. Good luck. What a way to thwart the conscious mind of its integrity and rob the conscious will of any being.

Core beliefs don't matter? Ask yourself what the medical/ psychiatric "professions", or "religions" - or you believe about Darwin (survival of the "fittest" - what do you think that means exactly - to you personally?), or fundamentalist "original sin / fall from grace" assumptions, or sciences "big bang" cosmic chance explosion etc. Those are but small belief examples. Children are immersed in those psychological assumptions - all of them - because they must, in degree, acquiesce to them temporarily, to survive. The work is in beliefs, not chemistry. It is in refereshing and rebuilding trust, will, imagination and esteem.

To anyone who knows of the work of A.S. Neil, who ran a school in England named "Summerhill", these behaviours - and the issues behind them are self-evident. All life seeks effective action, a power of action, of justice, of natural chosen collaboration. Children naturally represent, to varying degree the psychological climate of their environment, of peers and parents. They are not empty, stupid glasses, to be filled by "elder" assumptions, of "certainties"- of temporary, workable fictions that some adults now call facts. There are no finite points of arrival, of finite "truths" and life ever creates past any assumed boundary. That is a characteristic of spontaneity, and that natural characteristic will not be denied. One can bet that "hyperactive" (or whatever acronym) children often are representing the unexpressed energy in a group, and particularly in a restrictive / aggressive family circle. As others here have pointed out, nature is truly a great healer. So is artistic play and make believe, the contruction of stories and physical performance.

.

test

"The only possible justification for taking the drugs is that the alternative, going without, is so life-shattering. Is ADD or ADHD that bad?" writers the mad fox.

A pretty good analysis. And your rule of thumb above, I would say. is pretty sound as well.

Much other sound thinking here as well, in my view, such as from Robert Q. Kit as well, made a couple worthwhile points, in my read of her/his piece.

Thanks for the link to that study Rob Q, it's a topic I feel very strongly about. When I was living overseas (going there straight from three years in Banff, of all places) in a mostly-concrete city, I broke down on a street corner once. Just fell apart. Traffic zipping all over, not a shade of natural green in sight (I went days, sometimes, without seeing so much as a nice, big, tree) and just stood there sobbing, thinking, "WHAT is going on??" Culture shock, and the stress of living somewhere with no access to nature. This was in the city of course, and on weekends my friends and I went hours out of our way by bus to go hiking in the mountains. We HAD to, or we would have snapped; as many foreigners did.

Paul summed it up very well... and Coyote, I think we are kindred spirits (why did you try to strangle that officer? haha), and you're a sweetheart too :)-

Interfacing with internet formatting systems can be a bit of a structural tyranny in "its" own right...wasn't meaning to be overly strident ;) Another belief that can get overlooked in engaging "disorders", is the assumption that some "practitioners" adopt - that they're "ok" and that they're treating "a patient" - seldom reflecting that the (so-called) patient may actually be (highly probable) - a representation of some their own unresolved or conflicting ideas, as well as desired areas of the (so-called) "normal" individuals growth yet to come; a living metaphor of the practitioners, "teachers" - or parents mental landscape of challenges and aspirations. One probably cannot witness desired change, without the observer first doing so in whatever degree. Such an operative assumption implies the possibility of all observed phenomena being a moment to moment construction of ideas made physical.

Kit, I appreciate the arguments you've made and the effort you put into them.

Cheers, Rob Q, Coyote and Fi.

Before I shut this down tonight, I just want to make one observation. I have a very good friend who has suffered from chronic depression for years. Sometimes that means her friends have to take a suicide watch and remain with her until the urge to jump into some sense of oblivion passes. Therapy doesn't help. Advice doesn't help. She's tried every solution, remedy, cure, alternative she's ever heard of, and she tells me, "Until you've been there, you just haven't got a clue."

I assume it's probably that way with ADD and ADHD as well. So, Anna and anonymous, whatever gets you through the long, dark night. Cheers.

Thanks, some humanity is good to see. Kit, I'd like to quote you Marjorie Holmes;When the author chooses to bury [an idea] in verbiage, convoluted sentences, and references of such erudition that even the erudite get lost, he is not communicating, he is showing off. Or he is camouflaging an idea that wasn't worth all the mental acrobatics."

Just checking, Anna: maybe you (or symbolic "others") are in "the erudite league", and "an author" has presented you with something that has lost you?

We're are indeed all responsible for being "understood", true. It's not our job to satisfy, appease, or answer anothers' questions in terms or codes that they pre-define. There's nothing buried in any verbiage here (if that's what was meant). I also do not need to quote "another" to make my own points, should I happen to feel off-put.

I believe that people are responsible (as in able to respond) to their ideas and impulses, and are personally capable, with an empathetic circle of peers, to effect meaningful change - changing or becomming that which they may want - if they truly want it. I feel that that idea, that faith in another, is respectful, and gives an energy that permits all participants and peers in an encounter to grow.

I happen to not subscribe to assigning labels, or "you're a this or that" tag to anyone, nor do I believe that one need to "adopt an acquiscent stye" - or else.

I've certainly witnessed direct and indirect aggressiveness when people are not addressed in terms or labels they feel necessary for a current self-image. [the "thanks for "some" humanity by "some"...but for you, who's pissing me off by not getting me, I have little "quote"..] As I indicated earlier, every encounter is a joint challenge and I willingly work with my part of a relationship, and I respectfully anticipate the same.

No probs, Fi, I'm with you. There's nothing better than getting outside and breathing the air that comes with the wind across your face. Seeing and feeling and hearing nature cure my various ills every day, from work stress to home fatigue. Gotta get that little bit of outdoor time...

Is it just because I crave it after having spent so much time out of doors as a child and adolescent, or is there really truly something intrinsically healing about being around something green and alive as the study suggests? We know people need sunlight to cure some depressions...

Hello Kit, Funny but today, after a small dose of dexedrine [tch, tch] my head and the tasks before me are so much clearer yet your writing still isn't. I wonder why you are so passionate on this issue when it does'nt [?] affect you? Unless you believe that we will be turned into a nation of zombies by some companies and doctors who's reality is not your own? I have never been pressed to take a stimulant yet find the occassional relief from brain fog a relief... Passion CAN be a great thing. By the way what do you have against me quoting someone I'd just read to help improve my own writing? I'm sorry you took it as an attack...while it's true I find your style overly wordy. By the way having empathetic peers and a strong desire to focus hasn't helped me to focus one iota...There was a time when I also believed it ought to however what "ought to be true" and what is can so often be different do you find?

"Brain Fog". That's interesting. Bill Gaston uses the same words in his new novel Sointula to describe the reaction of a character coming off anti-depressants. It's the reverse though. By coming off the pills, the protagonist feels like she's coming more fully to life. Every morning, before I go for a walk and have my shot of Osso Negro "Prince of Darkness" or Kicking Horse "Kickass", I have a hefty dose of brain fog.

Kit, I realize underlying prejudices can influence the epistomology of diagnostic psychiatry. I can only imagine how fraught the decision must be for the mentally ill in whether to accept permanent brain-function altering medications or not. It is truly scary to think this stuff is being given to kids.

Hello, Indeed it is a scary decision and one that I hope to compromise with by taking medication only at a very small dose which luckily works for me and only "as needed"....Imagine that brain fog continuing all day, after the coffee, after the walk...bummer, no? Although I can see given the research into outcomes for untreated a.d.d. why a parent would make the very difficult descision to medicate their child I would personally choose to wait 'till the child is at least old enough to make an informed choice...[of course I could be wrong]

I'm happy that you value good communication, Anna. I'm sure that you'll try to practise that even more, as pleases you in your circle of relationships. I feel well enough understood by my peers and friends, as is. Don't understand your need to share of what you took today. You've made significant judgments of some posters who don't agree with you, implying negative opinions about their humanity, calling views righteous, et al. You don't sound particulary happy nor modest in those stances. This "issue" as you call it, is important to me because I believe in the basic power of individuals to address ideas and and respond to impulses effectively, and I'm not willing to be silent on it. You appear to argue otherwise. Your posts appear to me to imply certain labels as a lens, and appear to me to demand a conscensus. And what is your perspective - definitive, or your current operative perspective? I choose the second.

I don't personally know who your peers are nor how empathetic they may be, or have been. That's rub, of "virtual" exchanges at worst, or secondary, non-current (inderect) information. They're representations. I am not asking nor demanding that you understand me, nor do I need your, um, "council", on how to communicate with you specifically, or others perhaps in a "larger" sense, as you "suggest" I do. My own and any other online posts are an offer, resonating with some. Anything more is someone else's problem with needs and demands.

Empathetic peers not having helped one not "one iota" is pretty remarkable sounding. There can be fake empathetic (scripted) behaviour, there can be unwillingness by recipients of offers of asked for support, regardless of what they may outwardly say (not said accusingly here). I believe that there can be "apparent" shortcomings in wanted capacity at any point by all participants by conscious choices of belief and actions - but I happen to basically believe that conscious natural means can be found by an individual seeking it. That is not a stated as a judgement of whatever past choices of any person, or whatever a pasts perceived reason for being in someone's experience; I'm basically expressing it as a trust in a present, and trust of an individuals conscious mind. I don't basically beleive that effective change needs "vehemence" - but committed focus, well, absolutely. Sometimes asking oneself why one believes in a need to be "passionate" to make an effective change can provide an interesting answer. I think the answer is called a belief. That belief can be a hub to a ton of other associated ideas, I believe. My current assumption is that beliefs (ideas that one accepts as true, whole hog) - and the working with ones conscious belisfs to be utterly neccessary to effect change. To a conscious individual, I believe that that is an important position to consider. My view is that all else will produce a listlessness or resignation.

A belief may not be a fact - but if a person believes it - and doesn't question the idea of its "rock certainty", it plays out as a fact, imaginatively, chemically and physically, I believe, so long as the person believes, completely. I happen to believe, that even questioning - starts to crack a grip of any idea, a first step of effective change in any area. Being impulsive, in line with a counter (new, desired) belief, I believe, will in time (with genuine trust and standing ones ground).. produce effective enough evidence, with the new assumption, to support a person to continue with the new assumption. I also fully believe in acting in line with personal and practical common sense, appropriate to a situation, as any individual expriences their immediate reality. I've really gone on here, but I thought I'd relate it, since I felt I was being asked to be more directly personal (I may be still viewed as "unseccessful" in my attempt..that's ok). That's been some of my experience. Good luck in yours.

Kit, My empathic friends have been an enormous asset in my life...I only said they don't help my focus and indeed why would or should they...It seems to me you're good at handing out the critisism yet not so good at receiving it. Our debate has gone fom stimulating to boring. Over and out, Anna

Its basic common sense, that focus, from ones own point of reference, is one's responsibility, not empathetic friends.

"It seems to me you're good at handing out the criticism yet not so good at receiving it." Anna, if you feel like it, maybe re-read your posts, and your personal remarks - and ask yourself more carefully to whom the above refers. 10/4

Kit, one last try, We probably are quite alike in being idealists...unfortunately in my case my idealism has caused me to take a long time to see that I could be helped instead of just somehow overcoming something that's beyond my power. I've always experienced innattentive a.d.d., only recently have I known there was a name for it perhaps explaining my own passion and quite likely defensiveness. As I write this I can feel the clear headedness i had today as a result of a dose the psychiatrist thought too tiny to make a difference[it wasn't] wearing off. For some people what you theorise about is a reality. I mention the medication and it's effects because that is the topic of the article. I wish you no ill and I'm sorry if I was inneffective in sharing my experience with you. It's true I can certainly be blunt. I do think you have some good theories it's just that that's what they are ; theories...I don't claim to have the answers ,I just recognise when something makes a difference in my life. Wishing you well.

Anna, Dexedrine is a form of speed, isn't it? -- an amphetamine? Don't the side effects sometimes include edginess, anxiety and aggression in the personality that isn't there normally? That must require extra leeway and patience in others which would take a huge toll on your relationships. I wish emotional intelligence was valued as highly as mental clarity when companies designed drugs.

Dear mad fox, The effects of speed on someone with a.d.d. are paradoxical. Anxiety, edginess and aggression are all conditions that are likely to co-exist with untreated a.d.d. I would like to hear more accounts from others with a.d.d. if there's anyone out there who'd like to add their experience. Otherwise I've got to put my attention to more productive uses than endlessly trying to convince people who have no reason to understand.

One of the hardest things on any relationship in my experience is the refusal of either party--and in my 20 yr relationship we've both been guilty at times--to accept that another persons experience of the world is different from our own. My husband and I are not better or worse than each other just different...I like a lot of change,he doesn't...he feels accomplished when he makes a good sale...I feel accomplished when I've made a grouchy baby laugh....he's a social extrovert, I get overwhelmed in crowds.and so on and so on....likewise we have brains that work differently;I think a very good thing. At the same time a teensy bit of "speed" helped me finish an article that was important to me to finish and that I otherwise couldn't focus on. Saying that, afterwards when it had worn off and I had to go to my daughtwer's school performance, it seemed even more frazzling than usual whether because of the dexedrine come-down or because I'd previously been 2 days at home with my sick daughter [the contrast] i don't know....I'd love to hear other's experience with and without meds. I am not bent on pushing anything here...just hoping for more understanding of different peoples experience. By the way there was a time I was adamantly against psychiatric drugs...What changed my mind was when they likely saved my life during a severe post partum depression....Till you've been there....

My heart goes out to you, Anna. Thanks for describing what it's like to actually live with ADD. That sort of anecdotal experience is more helpful for me to understand what the disorder is than any scientific description. I truly have no judgments against you for how you choose to handle the symptoms.

For what it is worth, many, many people have found help for these symptoms with flavonoid supplementation. I use one with both grape seed and ginko biloba that has stopped ADD symptoms within a week. Mark

No one has mentioned two non-drug treatments: neurofeedback and structured exercise (Brain Gym). Check out www.dorecenters.com and www.avstim.com

My husband's father thought no kid should have to sit at a desk for five days a week. He took his out one day in the middle of the week...skiing, swimming, any kind of exercise. The children all went on to university and careers they enjoyed. Smart daddy!!!

For all you preachers judging the inside of their minds from the outside lookin in, trust me, when you live with someone with ADD...you KNOW it has to be more than simply behavioural. You know it's not something pharmaceurticals have 'made up,' and you thank god there is medication for a medically based problem. If anything to slow the mind somewhat, so that he might actually focus and complete a task(often required to sustain an income), prioritize and pay a bill before buying that powerwasher or remember to pick up little Johnny who waited for Daddy for over 2 hours but KNEW he'd forget....etc.,...if a little pill assists in taking the heavy burden off the wife of doing EVERYTHING emotionally and otherwise to keep a family intact when everything else has failed them...I say..Bring it!-pw-camp