I think that there are a lot of us out there that don't miss hockey yet. The regular season is so g-damn boring until the last 20 or 30 games, so who cares. I would much rather watch Jaws on CBC's "Movie Night in Canada" than some pitifully boring dump-and-chase-clutch-and-grab-stay-back-play-the-trap game between Toronto and whoever or Vancouver and whoever.

Thank you Mark. I've been waiting for Tyee's take on this fiasco and you certainly outscored the typical sports commentator's take on it by moving the issue away from the so-called straight labour relations grind they know so little about. If I hear another overpaid talk-jock spewing labour relations bafflegab such as "just wait until January 1, 2005 when the employers can simply fire all thoe fast skating ingrates" I'm going to puke. I don't need sports reporters derssing up as industrial relations specialist any more than I need public relations specialists acting like they know anything more than what their boss has told them. You are absolutely right that NHL hockey like all major professional sport, is really just entertainment. But as a recovering fan, you do share in part of the responsibility because without the fan's wilingness to spend, spend and spend some more, these modern day gladiator exhibitions are doomed. We may no longer live in small isolated communities, cut off from the rest of civilization, but the professional sport industry has been quite successful in capturing the old sense of community-first that at one time drew residents to the town square, the big campfire or the shaman's gathering where our ancestors would chant or pray to scare away the evil from outside. From the professional sports industry's perspective you are simply doing what any good citizen is expected to do for the good of the community. Much of the sports media's reportage follows that simplistic view to the detriment of the larger community that ought to be their fisrt priority.

First off you can't be a true canuck fan if your missing 10 games a year for the last 10.Now there is few bigger game fans then me and I have to concur I'm not really ready to lose it yet.I hope this stoppage will last till jan 2006 just to see a few teams drop and a few of the power brokers of the game with a little luck lose their job.

I'm with ya Mark. I catch every Canucks game I can but so far this year I haven't cared one iota about them being on extended vacation. And its nice having the extra hours in a week without feeling like I'm missing an important game.

And I HAVE to agree with allan on the sports-jock types who are suddenly labour relations experts. I can't even listen to Sportstalk because of the blather.

I hope the players hold out till they get rid of the owners.

I used to be completely on the players' side for philosophical reasons, but am leaning away because I've had the revelation that hockey is nothing but a license to take money from me and thee. We are hockey slaves, in thrall to our fix. Is it morally right to continue a system where we are obliged to pay indefinite increases? I don't think so. While I would not argue that salaries cause ticket prices to go up directly, they're one obvious causative factor. Capping their salaries will hold back the ticket inflation that we've seen. I could get a $25 seat ten years ago.

Ten Reasons to Love the Lock-Out: 1. Spend more time with your kids. 2. Watching the BC Lions. 3. Baseball is once again enjoyable. Sox/Saint-Loo will be a classic. 4. Visiting the local movie theater on a Saturday night. 5. Watching Junior A, BCHL, and minor league hockey at Pacific Coliseum or your local community rink. 6. Enjoying the Bush/Kerry debates. 7. Listening to Trevor Linden get scorched on AM radio by Neil Macrae. 8. Seeing the desperation in the eyes of the players. 9. Hearing about Bertuzzi's increasingly bizarre off-ice shenanigans, including the building of the BertWall around his home in Kitchener. 10. Giving your freed up time to a charitable cause.

11. More time to watch the NFL where regular season games are more important than the first two of a best of seven NHL playoff series.

blah blah blah, another round of players vs owners vs fans. why not do a story on the people who actually do suffer from all this: the hundreds of fulltime and parttime employees who work in places like gm place? how many of them have been laid off and/or have no work to look forward to this winter? how come everyone overlooks this fact when pontificating in this subject?

Hey Jackson, looks like you need the same tongue-lashing that Larry Campbell gave to certain members of the Bus Riders Union. And if you're actually looking for an answer to your question, the reality is that the affected employees are just pawns in this game of chess; casualties that won't garner the same kind of fanfare as spoiled players and billionaire owners. More importantly, the ability to grill a hot dog or check ticket stubs is not limited to the game of hockey. Most of these people will land on their feet, whether it's with the Giants, Burger King, or Genesis Security.

well, i imagine that gm place is a union shop so they probably get paid better than at burger king or wherever, health coverage, etc? plus, most of them probably have day jobs somewhere else too, because its not like a few evenings a week at 'the garage' is going to pay the bills...

GM Place is union? I find that hard to believe. Built by private interests, doubt they'd let a union in without a fight.

Lets be honest. The ownerrs are at fault in this whole situation. They created this financial monster by paying the players such exorbant salaries and are now asking the players to bail them out. The players of course, want to keep the status quo but unfortunately will blink first and succumb to the owner's demands.After all, who wants to kill the goose that has laid the golden egg?

Frank, yes they are unionized workers and you would certainly be correct in assuming that private sector ownership opposed the it's employees right to form a union. It's standard employer practice in this province to try to interfere in workers' rights, a 19th or perhaps 18th century philosophy encouraged by this "new-era" government of the 21st century. I would have to assume the workers opted for a collective voice prior to this era, otherwise the application for union recognition would still be lost on some vice-chair's desk at the BC. Labour Relations Board awaiting the next challenge from the employers highly paid (anti)labour lawyers.

I would have thought unionizing under McCaw would be like unionizing the McDonald's inside a Wal-Mart. Did the guys transfer en masse from Pacific Coliseum or something?

I agree about the owners, they created the mess because they're the ones that control the treasury not the players. Managers really don't sign Jagr for 10 mill because they have a gun to their head. If every manager had just said "why would anyone pay 10 million for a cancer like you Jaromir" he would have had to take that high paying job at Euro-Disney instead. Or let his ego contract a little.

Yes it was the owners who blew the budget and yes nobody was holding a gun to their heads. However the owners have demonstrated that they cannot be trusted when left to their own means and this is where a cap makes sense. A luxury tax will not do because it will still create disparity. On the same note though I sure would like to see a creative salary cap, like one where a player who is originally drafted by a club would not count against the cap if that player stays on with the original team. This would help to build fan loyalty and reward teams that have good talent development/farm teams/scouts.

Geek, I like your latter idea.

The league should contract back to about 24 teams and then institute revenue-sharing.

Least I be out on a limb,did not the huge advertising revenue from the breweries enable the stratospheric pay levels to exist?The Tv.veiwers feed the monster,no?, if they buy the beer they will come,or some such thing. NHL is a business not a game not even close, ask the guys who protect the stars from the hard checking.Even the opposition is advised the bigger the draw a star has , benefits " the game " Self interest is what it's all about. The lowest paid player takes 300 grand U.S. i am told per annum, or am i misinformed.

Frank - GM Place staff are CAW, which as you may know, were the UAW in Canada at one time: nobody thought they could organize Ford Motor Co. either. Pacific Coliseum and PNE staff are CUPE. Just came back from a few days in Edmonton, now there's a city with serious NHL withdrawl...

No withdrawal here. I stopped watching some time ago. Why? It just isn't the game it once was, and as far as actually going to an NHL game, I wouldn't think of paying what they ask now. I don't even attend Junior games, which, others tell me, are just as good. Why does anyone go to see millionaires playing games? Beyond me.

CAW? A quick google search (union, orca bay sports) shows that the Hotel and Restaurant Employees Union (local 40) is the union at GM Place, while those at BC Place are BCGEU... just FYI

Local 40. Well, then perhaps GM Place employees might consider a Canadian conversion rather than propping up an old America-first compromise.

Yea! Hooray! CBC has replaced hockey night with movie night, presumably just until hockey is again happening. Oh well, enjoy it while it lasts. I was among the 74 percent of voters in the Globe and Mail online poll who said the lack of tv hockey would make no difference to them. I was wrong, as I found out by idly channel surfing and discovering CBC's true-entertainment solution to the unlamented elapse in hockey hooliganism. May they hang up their skates for good. Playing hockey on outdoor rinks and ponds forms a rich trove of childhood memories for me. Watching grown men play it for money, completely surrounded by billboards, is boring, boring, boring. It seems like not everybody agrees with me, just the vast majority maybe.

Ya Dude, I watched Jaws (unedited no less) and Indiana Jones. Much better than any boring regular season game.

Way to go Mark. Still miss those Canucks though and hope Bertuzzie is back soon as well as the rest of them. Owners shake your heads!!--In the meantime I get lots of hockey with my grandkids, Karl, Lucas and Alex. Keep up the great articles. Marna

In principle, I support the players. In reality, who cares? I stopped watching NHL hockey a long time ago because it is crap. Like most, I got hepped up at playoff time but that is the tribal/herd instinct and has little to do with the quality of the game. There is lots of amateur sport providing great athletic competition. But that is not really what this is about, is it folks? Some of us remember minor league hockey that packed the crowds in. Soccer, lacrosse, basketball, fastball, all had great followings. People actually went to games (and could actually afford to go). Then came the boob tube and the neccesity of selling soap. We have become supine consumers and it is the TV fix that is missing. Hockey night in Canada? The cultural glue holding this fractious nation together? Good grief! Look at another way, this may be a great moment in the development of a new cultural reality. Just a small chance I grant you, but a chance nonetheless.