Hi there, I just wanted to say thank you for reprinting the Campos article off of Alternet. I’m the Communications and Administrative Coordinator of The CEDRIC Centre, an eating disorder counselling centre in Victoria, B.C., a former board member for The Vancouver Island Association for Ending Disordered Eating, and a recovered binge eater. I once attended a meeting for Dr.’s and nurses to discuss obesity in the U.S. All day, experts trotted up to the stage and would bleakly list off all the things that obesity was responsible for, and then, they would share deeply personal stories of their own “battle against obesity.” What was most disturbing were the tales of deprivation and chronic under-eating these medical professionals endured, in the name of medically/culturally sanctified thinness. The damage they did to their knees from running. The schism they lived with of: good food versus bad. Good girl for eating carrots and tuna for lunch, bad girl for eating a grilled cheese sandwich. It became painfully clear that the message that “fat is bad for your health” wasn’t an objective conclusion reached through unbiased scientific investigation, but an aesthetic and cultural preference whose foundation was built on a house of cards. The truth is, we don’t know why some people are prone to be larger than others, and rather than railing against a genetic proclivity, doesn’t it make more sense to promote health, wellness, and balance for everyone, of every size? Thank you, Brooke Finnigan www.cedriccentre.com

paul campos himself is pretty skinny

paul campos himself is pretty skinny

I am a pretty fit person, however, with today's standards, I would be fat or obese. For years, my weight yo-yoed, I was always looking for a quick fix or looking to the next diet craze to help me loose weight so I would look more "normal". When I turned 30, I gave up the fight! Now, I eat healthy (however, I can have a burger and fries at lunchtime and no longer feel guilty about it!), I'm doing yoga, I'm in dance class about three nights a week, I go to the gym and, I'm still overweight! I'm probably more fit than my friends who are the "ideal" weight. I agree with Brooke Finnigan, I believe too much emphasizes is put on size rather than health.

The fact is that we have a heavy intake of toxins true food and air that our system can not depose off fast enough and demand our bodys to produce more fat to store the toxins.

For a 5'4" woman to be 127 pounds is NOT insane. 107, yes. 107 is an "incredibly low range" but 127 isn't. There's a 20 pound difference there. I'm 5'3" and about 115 lbs and noone would look at me and think I'm "too thin"... but I'm fit, and I have a small frame. Different body shapes and sizes have to be taken into account. We have a huge cultural obsession with "weight" but this BMI does not take into consideration what it is that makes up the weight- body fat or muscle. Trying to be thin and losing muscle tone as a result is dangerous. And of course women in particular need a certain amount of fat to be healthy, period.

I have a bit of a problem with "You've got these really skinny upper-class white people with their anorexic tendencies"... what?? Non-whites don't have anorexic tendencies? Non-whites aren't thin? That was just dumb...

The only person who's positioned to decide what weight is right, is the person attached to the body. Weight seems a highly charged topic because, for one, I believe that one's body is honest - and will not mask the screen of beliefs of the person of whom it's an expression of.

I happen to beleive that some people (metaphorically and practically) bury a lot of feelings (including anger) within their forms. So a conversation around weight (for such an individual) is going to be a real hot button. It's probably tricky thing, because, some people termed anorexic appear to be grappling with control, with food and their bodies a proving ground. Similarly, people with charged emotional energies on core ideas, will express a different form.

Bodies can also be armour. It's not one size fits all - but ones' form, its look, is probably no accident - and the look is probably heavily informed by the core ideas of the person that their form expresses.

It would be nice if the article had also expressed the "other side" instead of a caricature of it. There is a lot (LOT) of good science showing the link between obesity and many, many, many diseases. Too many people accept the notion that the known risks are in fact all just racist/misogynist/other labelling. It's an easy way out, and do you know who is feeding you that line? Or at least paying it's most effective proponents? The same industry that's feeding you the junk food...

FiMaxwell, I think you'll find that if you read the article more carefully, you'll see that what Campos is saying is that it is "insane" to expect all women who are 5'4" to weigh between 107 and 127 lbs. He is criticizing the assertion that to weigh more than that is to be obese. I agree with him on that. Take a step back, I think the "other side" does a fine job of getting it's message across. I, for one, don't need to hear it again. Also, I think that Campos addresses that LOT of science when he argues that being fat, in and of itself, does not necessarily damn a perons to ill-health. Poor diet, poverty and overwork are all far more likely to make a person sick.

As many have mentioned earlier BMI is a foolish measurement, as it doesn't differentiate between fat and muscle. Health also involves considerably more than simply the body fat percentage. Too much of anything is unhealthy (and that includes muscle) as it puts various forms of stress on the body.

Too much exercise, especially too soon, is bad for you. Exercise damages your body, and your body responds by repairing itself in such a way to better endure the damage next time. If you don't give your body time to heal after exercise, your tissues will break down, and your immune system will function less efficiently. You will get sick more often, and will likely sustain sports related injuries. Moderation, and listening to your body is exceptionally important on the road to getting fit. Most people make the mistake of doing too much too fast and then get injured or sick and give up. It is also important to realize that everyone is suited differently for certain forms of exercise. Tailoring excercise that suits your body best takes time. It's not as simple as 40 to 50 minutes a day of this or that. If you are unfit, doing 40 to 50 minutes a day of intense exercise is almost guaranteed to make you sick.

What is obese is a more difficult question. The crap Campos is dishing, however, is potentially dangerous, as being overweight AND unfit is a guaranteed road to health problems. But eating too little, eating only junk food, smoking cigarettes, or having some form of excessive chemical dependency (alcoholism, etc.) are also unhealthy.

Campos is right that thin shouldn't be an ideal. It places emphasis on appearance and says nothing about how a person should get there. Many years ago I had a roomate who worked as a model. Her diet consisted largely of fat-free butterscotch pudding and cigarettes. Needless to say she'd get sick from a cold breeze.

The ideal should be listening honestly to what your body is telling you, not the mirror, not your friends, not your mouth-watering imagination when you're thinking about a second giant piece of mocha banana cream pie. How do you feel walking up a hill? How do you feel bending down to pick up the pen you dropped, or the penny on the ground? Are you tired all the time? Do you get sick a lot?

Food is a simple as replacing (as much as possible) processed, and/or packaged food with fresh perishable food. To give you an idea, most milk (an exception is organic AND unhomogenized milk) and soy drinks are among the most highly processed foods out there. If you're not eating something fresh, or that you've made from fresh ingredients every meal, then you're probably not eating as healthily as you should.

Again the right food is about listening to your body. If you eat something supposedly healthy that makes you feel bad, find something else. If soy or other legumes make you gassy and give you cramps find something else, don't pop digestive aids like candy. If you must be a strict vegan for political reasons, realize you are likely sacrificing a measure of your health as a result, and be comfortable with that decision.

Forget all this polemic crap from goof balls trying to sell the latest fad. The idea that "Gluttony is Good", is about as intelligent as "Greed is Good". Following that creed may seem to make bits of your life better for a time. But because it's primarily about selling you something you don't need, or excusing bad behaviour, it'll catch up with you.

Again, take the time to pay attention to what your body is telling you. Is your knee a little too achey after that last run? Is the pain a little too sharp? Take some extra rest days before running again. Are you vibrating after that third latte, but fine with just one? Does the insulin rush after a handful of hard candy make you feel like you're gonna puke? Eat just a couple next time, but savour them.

But hell, if you can't live with moderation in anything, make peace with the fact you're probably gonna die young, or be riddled with disease and infirmity while our wonderful medical technology keeps you clinging to some semblance of life.

I remember the Harper’s article the Campos refers to. The argument there was more persuasive and much more controversial than what Campos offered up. Greg Critser said that the feminist critique of body image was both classist and myopic. Whereas Campos says that the obesity “scare” foists upper class neuroses onto the poor and in so doing helps to create a greater market for “diet” food, Greg Critser said that by praising poor racial minorities for having better body images than upper class whites, feminism was compounding a situation (lower class obesity) that when compared to the problem of anorexia was much worse. For Critser, besides creating a general ethos, in which it was impolite to raise the issue of a child’s weight as a concern, the whole subject of body image help give ammunition to those who wanted to cut funding for PE programs, particular in poorer school districts. Another article in Harper’s detailed the importance the French government has placed on keeping childhood obesity at bay.

Looli, yeah- good point; I re-read it and see what you are saying; however, Campos was also citing only researchers from Harvard University. I checked the American National Institute of Health site and their "normal range" was from 18.5- 24.9, which would mean anywhere from 107 pounds to 145 for a 5'4" woman. Overweight is considered 25-29.9 (up to 174 pounds for a person 5'4" ) and obese a BMI of 30 or greater. Like I said earlier, BMI has to take into account what it is that is weighing in, fat or muscle, but to be honest, if I was weighing close to 174 pounds it would be fair to say I was overweight. I doubt I could build that kind of muscle mass. So yes, in the case of the Harvard Uni recommendation, it is silly- but that recommendation is not the same across the board, so I think his research was a bit misleading.

The BMI is a flawed, somewhat misleading tool, but focusing on its shortcomings is a red herring. Campos's argument is that weight in and of itself tells us little about a person's actual health. Therefore, fat acceptance advocates like Campos, NAAFA, Bigfatblog, FATSO, et al, take the view that dieting and weight loss surgery are pointless practices, offering no benefits to go with their considerable drawbacks.

People are ectomorph, mesomorph, or endomorph. Some are a combination of ecto- meso- endo- (e.g. they have a heavy bottom.) No matter what parameter you choose someone will deem you out of the normal range and then you panic ... WHY? You were born with a body that has a particular blueprint that is right for you and what you have to do in your short time here. Through neglect or misuse, your appearance may change, but only to a limited degree ... your blueprint scores big every time. So please stop with this high priced nonsense and get on with doing what your really supposed to do.

this is ridiculous, it is much better to be thin, because your body moves much better, you are much more agile and flexible, it is easier on the joints, you will not develop a hernia, which means you do not have a potbelly that gets in your way, it is just plain ridiculous to suggest that we should all be as fat as we possibly can, WHY? What for?

I don't have any "expertise" on this subject of obesity, so I'm only really speaking to what seems obvious-, to me. With that qualifier, I certainly don't think it is necessary or desirable to be as thin as many of these breastless, boyish looking women being clothes horses on the TV "fashion file" show. On the other hand, when it lays on you in rolls, chafes your thighs when you walk, makes it "problematic" to bend over and tie your shoelaces, hampers your breathing and threatens diabetis, you have a problem, whatever the attempt to create a new political correctness, now for obesity.

I do like "my women" :-)... And eh, married men, like married women, LOOK. ...with some meat on their bones, and a fit for breeding look about them, no doubt. Which means I don't have any desire for an "anorexic", breastless, curve shorn woman, who appears to speak more to a "repressed" desire to make out with a prebuescent boys. On the other hand, there is a scale of reasonableness and, as in the case of my wife, I don't have any problem with the fact that as a women ages, she is not going to look like she did, or be as svelte, as she was when she was 18. She still turns my crank.

For my own body, I like a little weight as opposed to being the bone rack I was through my teens, and even into my early twenties-, but at the point it hinders my activity level in any way, such as I can do if I don't stay active, and I mean seriously active for a man my age, and watch what I eat, then I do haul in the quantities I'm eating, especially my love of sweets and "snacking", and step up the physical pace. (And I love candy and chocolate as much as any woman. Fortunately, I'm also a "physical" kind of guy, and always have been. I even love it too.) Which is the point, I think, there has to be a balance between intake and output, and it's "largely" as simple as that.

And I understand there are "emotional" issues which effect eating for many folks, as there are with any "substance abuse", and there are different "body types" that make "fitness weight" easier or more difficult. Still, this attempt to "apologize" for seriously excessive "fat/obesity" is just more classic bleeding heart liberal "do-gooder" apologetics, with the potential to be harmful to the overall wellness of the larger population-, which is already too many Big Macs over the line. Just look around you, at men and women-, and kids. If it doesn't go in your mouth like ramping up the knots on an old coal fired battleship, it can't get layered on the old frame, all jiggly and wiggly, heaving and sweaty. While there are special problems and issues with specific people, and there are always those damned "exceptions" that prove the rule too, there's still no substitute for good old fashioned self-discipline-, with a little "empathy" for folks "market addicted" to grub, like some others are to crystal meth.

And the fact is, I think, from what I'm seeing more and more on the streets, we as a population have been partaking of the "good life", at least insofar as it involves calories, just a little too much, for a little too long. For what we put out.

And, of course, there are "overweight" folks on welfare I've known, with a whole other different "causal set" driving the problem for them.

Really driving it all though, is capitalism being a "system of artificially stimulated" or "market driven" excesses and imbalances, and socio-emotional stressors and insecurities flowing therefrom.

Withheld -- fat acceptance is not fat supremacy, or trying to advocate fatness as a desirable goal. It is fat people asking for an end to jokes, knee-jerk moral judgements, and discrimination. I like being lean better myself. For some it is not an option, even after torturous dieting. Whether it is a physiological or psychological problem is something that is interesting, but also besides the point.

"withheld,"with all respect, what is ridiculous is suggesting that ANYONE is saying that we should all be as fat as we can be.

as for diabetes, lack of flexibility, trouble breathing, hernias, etc., again, i would point out that these are due to poor diet and lack of exercise, NOT to being fat in and of itself.

the way that people confound these two things continues to amaze me. i would argue that morgan spurlock's wildly successful supersize me makes the same mistake. the sharp decline his health takes is due to a diet entirely devoid of nutrition and a sedentary lifestyle, and yet he confounds his argument again and again, by trying to make it about obesity. which is foolish given that, despite the claims from his doctors that he was on death's door, he did not become obese, by anyone's standards.

and let me be clear, i don't argue for a second that poor diet and lack of exercise can't lead to obesity, because certainly they do. what i am arguing is that poor health and fat are both effects, whereas the current trend is to make being fat the cause of the poor health.

I think James Burns hit the nail on the head when he called what campos was dishing out for dessert - crap. Campos obviously knows all about american consumerism as he is appealing to a growing population in the Big West who are both great consumers and looking for validation against the constant lecturing from health officials saying that they are killing themselves (and tax payers bank accounts) with their own self-indulgent kindness. He fails to mention that obesity and anorexia are two sides of the same coin and that both involve "unhealthy" obsession with food - obsession itself is not a disorder until it affects the everyday quality of life and productiveness of the individual. I also argue that driving an SUV and eating a triple cheeseburger are both equally distructive to both people and the environment in which they live - but are comparable as apples and oranges in their carb counts. I also find it ironic that he tries to state a case of rascism and classism as the root cause of the anti-obesity movement in health and political circles - but I find his comments about rich people's sense of superiority and lettuce eating habits and the "skinny upper-class white people with their anorexic tendencies" as being both classist and rascist in the extreme as well as heartily inaccurate - as anyone who can objectively look around them can see that not many rich people munch celery (unfortunately, Atkins is dead but his diet isn't), nor are all diagnosed anorexics upper middleclass white women - at least not anymore. He is obviously neither objective or a health care researcher/practioner or else he would see all the holes in his arguments leaves a rather transparent aim to capitalize on the obesity epidemic of industrialized nations with a nonsensical new book. As an aside, the BMI is a tool to be used as only a very rough estimate for people to gage if they are within a healthy weight range - and it does come with a footnote that it would not be applicable to many athletes or bodybuilders or those with smaller or bigger body frames. And lastly, there is a clear link (despite the claim Campos makes to the contrary) between thinness - or more accurately - calorie restriction and longetivity that is of heightened research interest. In fact, it is the only thing that has actually resulted in our never ending pursuit of extending our consumer driven existence - ironically enough. I find it deliciously satisfying that not consuming is the key to extending our hunger-driven lives (for more info see: http://www.infoaging.org/b-cal-home.html).

no, looli, trust me, i have been fat, i have been thin, thin is better, physically, period.

Dear withheld; I've been short and I've been tall, and believe me rich is better. So is pretty better than homely, smart than stupid, healthy than ill. Think about it. You really think these are matters of choice?

What is it about people that makes us want to think less of others? If fat became fashionable, as it has been in the past many times in many cultures, would we then blame thin people for their thinness? Seems so. How sad for us.

There was an article i read recently that discussed how 'fat' is an organ, which emits hormones to regulate some of the 'hunger' we feel.

The problem is that this organ can grow and grow and grow...i don't think that it's healthy to have organs grow and expand like that, as their influence on the body increases with size..

I really can't believe someone would argue that excessive amounts of body fat can be healthy. There are probably zero reputable studies to back this up...and many to the opposite.

Oh well, who'd want to read about that? Gotta throw some reactionary media in there every now and then to keep the readers on their toes..heh

Dave Noisy - you probably read about adiponectin which was recently highlighted in Nature Medicine as one of the hormones secreted by adipocytes (fat cells) - which are now considered part of the endocrine "organ" system. You're right - as starvation is hardly a problem in Western industrialized nations - expanding waistlines in and of themselves have led to a parallel increase in the incidence of associated problems, such as type 2 diabetes and cardiovascular disease. Adiponectin - among other proteins secreted by fat cells, are linked to both insulin resistance and atherosclerosis, and have received a lot of attention - as the sound of big pharma cashing in on our gluttonous human nature fuels the rush for a fat cure. Ridiculous - half the world is starving and the other half spends millions to pharmalogically induce starvation while over-eating and debating the "obesity is a disease" issue.

Having struggled with my weight for some years now, I am endlessly fascinated by other people's response to it. Coworkers feel they have the right to be body Nazis by suggesting I take up exercise, and are then shocked to discover I have always been a regular at the gym and love to workout. My doctor gets miffed when taking my blood pressure only to discover that it is fine. She then sends me for endless tests intent on finding something wrong with me only to get frustrated when everything comes out perfect. My cholesterol levels are great. Tests show I have no interstitial fat; I don't have any internal fat inside my organs. Not once has my doctor ever bothered to ask me about what I eat or if I exercise. My body says it all to her. She continues to suggest I need to lose weight and asks me to take dangerous weight loss medications (which I refuse). My newest personal trainer who tested my fitness levels recently looked frankly puzzled when I tested well above average in cardiovascular fitness, strength and flexibility. The funny thing is that I never had a weight problem until I decided I wasn't thin enough and wanted to be super skinny. I began to seriously restrict calories and thus began my steady ascent into fathood. While it has been unequivocably shown that calorie restriction does not work and that chronic yo-yoing can lead to obesity and serious health problems, you all still seem intent on telling fatties like me to simply keep doing what is dangerous and doesn't work. I think Campos is essentially right. It is far more important to a person's overall health to exercise and to eat healthy. Like me, you can still be fit and fat. Unlike being a bone rack, a healthy diet and exercise have proven to be significant contributors to health. Would I rather be thinner? Sure...but mainly because it would make my life easier to be socially acceptable to you people out there with a pathological fear and hatred of my fat ass who feel compelled to treat me like shit and tell me how to live my life. Despite the limitations that you would like to impose on me, I refuse to hate myself because you think I should. My life is not lonely and miserable. My life is pretty much the same as before I got fat. I have friends, I workout, I pursue interests, I get laid (oh my god! even the fatties get some!). What I would like however, more than my losing weight, is for you anorexic thinkers to get off my lardy derriere. A pox on all your scrawny asses! Get a life and fixate on your own physical imperfections rather than mine.

I gave myself and my attitudes towards the superior moral virtues of being skinny a reality check recently. I was packing up some old National Geographics when I glanced at a cover and thought to myself "what a willowy beautiful woman on the cover! so graceful, she could be a model!" Upon closer inspection, I shocked myself when I realised that the beautiful willowy woman on the cover was an Ethiopian famine victim. There is definately a problem when one equates famine for beauty.

I find the last comment by Sam bitter sweet in its irony - I was just purusing the latest National Geographic - the headline cover: "Why are we so FAT?; A love of carbs? A lack of exercise? The real reason one in three Americans is obese is simpler than you think." - by Cathy Newman. As an aside, just because the Ethiopian beauty depicted on the cover was a famine victim does not make her any less graceful, willowy or beautiful. Ethiopians have been given the gift of grace to adaptively deal with the hot sun - lanky leanness helps with keeping cool by offering greater surface area for dissipating heat.

Dear cram, Hear, hear! Well said.

In recent years I've come to feel that all the directed oppressions we practice on one another are based not on principles of any kind, but on vulnerability. Blacks feel oppressed by whites, women by men, the Jews by the Nazis, etc. etc. and so on.

After watching how non smokers behaved toward smokers, I began to reexamine my take on oppression. I noticed that when any oppressed group fought back and won, and removed themselves from the list of the oppressible, as all the groups I just mentioned have to some extent, other groups were added. The new groups had vulnerability in common. They could be blamed and they were not in a position to fight back. They could be oppressed without risk, and so oppressed they were.

Smokers, the fat, the poor, the disabled, the mentally ill. AIDS sufferers, addicts, prisoners. Basically, the rule seems to be, if they can't prevent it, we can abuse them at will. It seems to be somehow a defect in our souls. Like birds in a pen, if we show a spot we can expect to be pecked to death. It makes me feel sad, and rather ashamed to be human.

Dear essence, You have got to be kidding! The woman on the cover was not lean because she was "dissipating heat"! She was dying for Christ's sake! But I suppose you're the death becomes her type.

Sam - I did not see the cover of which you speak - I just know that Ethiopians are graceful in build (I minored in cultural anthropology and was fascinated by the whole adaptation of physical body types and the environment in which they live) - that is all. The cover of which I spoke of America's obesity epidemic is the present one on National Geographic - quite a good read - especially given this topic. I do find it strange - though - that you mistook a healthy lean body for one that is dying due of famine by your own admission - was that a hyperbole on your part or were you trying to make a point about our obsession with being lean when we are fat? I suppose I may be a "death becomes her type" being one who is lean due to being a runner by nature - though a strict carb-loader and an anti-atkins advocat. I admit I love sushi - as the Bare Naked Ladies say - "'cause it never touched a frying pan".

essence-the point i was trying to make is that i have come to view skinny as some sort of ideal of beauty, when sometimes it just means underfed, malnourished or in this case dying. It's obvious I've internalised our culturally dictated concept of beauty to an unhealthy degree. A famished body should never be equated with beauty. What's so beautiful about a woman who is emaciated and dying, shrunkenly devoid of those secondary sex characteristics which make a woman look like a woman as opposed to a walking corpse? lean is not necessarily healthy and fat is not necessarily unhealthy. I agree with Bailey that we need to stop being judgemental bigots and stop demonising anyone who has a perceived weakness or difference. Whether we like it or not, most of us are conned by our culture and media into accepting certain attributes as beautiful. I grew up thinking I was ugly not because I was fat ( I was skinny), but because I was Italian. It wasn't until a trip to Europe in my late teens with my beautiful WASP blonde friend that I realised that I wasn't ugly. I got all the attention. It upset the hell out of my friend because in Canada, she was the one who had all the male admirers. Our friendship actually dissolved over this stupid beauty ideal issue. Our culture dictates beauty norms and we are stupid enough to fall for it. We need to take a good look at our own shortcomings before we cast stones at others. So you're lean! Great! Good for you! And you're healthy too! Bonus! Just don't look at the fat chick sitting next to you and assume she's a lazy, unfit, McDonald's loving slob because she doesn't fit into your preconception of what a fit person looks like. I suggest you read cram's letter.

Thanks for a great article,puncturing one of our society's biggest myths today. I want to scream every time I hear people making these comments (at least 3- 4 times a day!!). I liked especially the quote from the definition of "anorexia" and the comparison with excess consumption in other aspectss of our lives.

Sam- I understood the point you were trying to make - and like all things in life - optimum on the bell curve is in the middle of both extremes. I would never judge someone - he or she - based on their girth. I had previously served as a counselor for those suffering from eating disorders; and despite the common misconception such disorders were induced by societal ideals of beauty - they never were. In fact, these people withdrew from society and became obsessed with trying to gain control - it is always a battle with the self and the fear of losing control. Rather than drugs, people with eating disorders (both anorexia and overeating) fall into a pattern that they know is destroying them but don't know how to gain control of the runnaway train. Often coaxing them slowly out of their destructive patterns and out of their comfort zone they realize the world will not crumble by finding comfort in things other than their obsessive fixation on food and weight. However, the article above is not about ideals of beauty, but about what is healthy, and the fact is that being obese is not healthy. We really have to change the way we are forming our society when preteens can't run around the block and are showing signs of type 2 diabetes. As much as many of us would like to hear support for the "big and beautiful" dogma - just like the luxury SUV running on extra fuel, its a luxury with a price too high to pay for our society and ourselves.

Dear essence- I see that you equate thinness with health and fatness with being unhealthy. I think the article was trying to point out that that is not necessarily the case. Exercise and a healthy diet are much more important than a number on a scale. Yes, beauty ideals do come into it, because our beauty concept correlates to what is considered healthy in our society. Thin people are considered better looking than fat people. Also, I don't see where Campos is promoting the "big and beautiful dogma" as you put it. He is simply pointing out that there is little hard evidence to prove that weight in and of itself is dangerous. It is much more dangerous to be unfit, regardless of your weight. Your supposition that fat people are unhealthy simply because they are fat is a bigoted supposition which is dangerous because it is the basis of much disgust aimed at those who are overweight. It's o.k. to belittle them and make moral judgements as long as the object is to make a point about their health. Bigotry couched in concern about unhealthy fat is is still bigotry. I would hate to be a fat person in a world full of people who think like you. Sorry, but you're not going to make me believe that all fat people are psychologically damaged people who binge and fixate about food. I think the world is much more diverse than that. Once again, I urge you to read cram's letter.

dear essence-I think Campos states it pretty clearly that our perception of what is a healthy and desirable weight is based on an arbitrary concept-the height and weight chart-which has no basis whatsoever in science. It is a white and I would add a WASP or Northern European ideal. Our ideals of beauty are indeed influenced by these charts. Skinny white people, indeed all people, should stop dictating to others what they should weigh. We should accept people at no matter what weight, while stressing a healthy diet and exercise for everyone, no matter what the weight. We need to stop telling fat people they're deficient. I have yet to meet a fat person who isn't aware they're fat, but I've met plenty of unhealthy thin people who think they're healthy simply because they're thin.

Attacks on obesity and smoking are the way yuppies consolidate their class privilege. These broad terms are code for, you know, working people.

Percy-thanks for the sanity. You're totally right. Way too many of us aren't ready to examine our own prejudices. We can't eliminate sanctioned bullying of the obese without taking a hard look in the mirror first.

Is being non-obese an ideal only valued by "skinny white people"? Most Asian societies I know of are definitely more inclined to value the petite - but that is besides the point. If we were to have suspended disbelief that there is no health hazard to being clinically obese (not pleasantly plump) - then I suppose most of the "weight it great" supporters would not support gastric bypass surgery - or any other obesity related treatment as being paid for out of taxpayers money since, afterall, weight has no health hazard in and of itself - correct? The truth is that there are actually 2 camps at play - the pharmaceutical and diet industries love a population that is growing large because the money in treating the problems that are to arise with such a phenotype is tremendous - selling recombinant insulin and weight loss pills is a very lucrative business in industrialized nations. Two misconceptions that have been articulated here are: 1) it is more likely that thin/underweight individuals are likely to be malnourished compared to obese people; unfortunately, the problem with many obese here is that they are actually deficient in nutrients (ie malnourished) despite carrying extra weight. The fault is directly related to our food system - when we get hungry - it is as a result of signals from our body that we need nourishment; unfortunately, the food that is widely available is high in fat and calories but low in nutrition - which is a craving that is left unmet. The second misconception is that fat cells in and of themselves do not contribute to obesity related disorders - when in fact they are actively involved in raising circulating insulin levels as well as cortisol and hormones (which leads directly to an increase in many forms of cancer). Not all fat is equal; however, abdominal adiposity (found more often in overweight men who like their beer and post-menopausal women) is far more dangerous than is that packed in the hips and breasts of women of child-bearing years. It is interesting to note, however, that most of the discussion has tended to equate societal ideals to beauty and body dysmorphoria as a female-centred problem when the great girth hazard is more a danger to men.

shirin-you're right, the percentage of fat men is greater than fat women, and it is more dangerous in men, but you're still missing the point. Gross morbid obesity is not the norm, the plain obese as Campos is talking about are not the ones rushing for gastric bypasses nor does he discount that at some point being really obese is a health hazard. What he does talk about however is that what we have come to regard as obese is getting thinner and thinner. And the obese are the targets of hatred in bigotry especially when less svelte peoples like indigenous latin americans and african americans make such nice fat targets. In that vast majority of obese people, the fat equals you're sick equation is not always clear. Read cram's letter-states it most eloquently-cram exercises regularly, eats healthy and by all medical measurents except a number on a scale is considered very fit. Why do we belittle people like that? Shouldn't fitness come first? You're right about asians too, but their body type dictates the norm. Spend some time in sub saharan africa-lots of non McDonald's eating, physically strong women who we would consider fat and ugly by our standards. The men in Djibouti love big booty, but their beautiful women are considered fat and ugly over here. Whether you like it or not, our standards in English Canada are still very WASP. Why is it so hard to believe that not all thin people are healthy and not all fat people are unfit? By the comments posted you would think that was tantamount to saying that the Pope is Jewish and fish ride bycicles. If we're going to belittle all fat people because a few grossly morbid obese people are gobbling up our health dollars, then lets start targetting infertile couples who want to have babies, and athletes who get injured playing sports, or drivers for getting into accidents. Lets even the hate others field to all who gobble up tax dollars-while we're at it, lets target doctors like cram's who waste our money trying to prove illness where there is none.

Sam -observing your tenacity on the subject, I hail your passion. I actually have spent quite a bit of time in Africa - my parents were born there - and I can tell you the level of tolerance for fat people is zero compared to the hypocritical avoidance of the topic directly in Canada. It angered me that people at the airport and streets in Tanzania, Kenya, and Egypt would point at my self-conscious cousin - who has a complex problem of being obese and having dysregulated hormones - and laugh and say in swahali or Arabic "Man or woman?". She - being 6 years older than myself - would cry like a bullied child in our room, and I was helpless to comfort her and I wished I could remove her pain. Let's not kid ourselves, my line of research has found a direct correlation in the development of asthma in adolescent females who are overweight (about 30-40% now fall into that category) as well as an early onset of menarche - this early exposure to estrogen is linked to an increase chance of breast cancer and fibroids later in life. I read cram's letter and wanted to avoid commenting on it because I can't understand why she would stay with such an obviously incompetent doctor. The last Diabetes Forum I attended in Winnepeg - doctors were told to alert patients showing signs of the Metabolic syndrome - they should warn patients to change diet and lifestyle when the 5 predictors of insulin resistance are recognized during a regular check-up. This warning can actually prevent the onset of type 2 diabetes - imagine actually having the opportunity to avoid the worst of all diseases. Unfortunately, doctors have a hard time addressing any weight-related issues they see in patients without being provoked to do so. To actually prescribe drugs (a last resort at the best of times), is very unusual for a Canadian doctor - especially in the absence of any overt malady. What struck me is that cram actually considered herself - as did her doctor - an extreme exception - which would seem unlikely given the number of the healthy plump roaming around. I find the issue regarding African American, First Nations, and Latino's a little more complicated since these are exactly the people who have suffered the most (health-wise) as a result of our Western cultures change in lifestyle encompassing a sedentary, high-stress job, and loads of cheap nutrient poor food - and they are more genetically susceptible to CVD and diabetes. Undoubtedly, socio-economic factors play a role in this incidence as well. Like smoking - some can smoke until the age of 90 without a hint of cancer due to their genetic susceptiblity to malignancy - and some can tolerate high levels of insulin and weight on their frames without succumbing to arthritis or diabetes - but that doesn't remove the fact that they are gambling with their health. If we can just get beyond the esthetic norms and defensiveness of the touchy subject of "fat" - the good, the bad, and the ugly of it - and accept that we are facing an epidemic the WHO have now termed "globesity" (http://www.the-scientist.com/yr2004/may/feature_040524.html - is a pretty straight forward and disgustingly objective scientific view of adiposity in all its drug potential to line the pockets of us researchers). Regards - and good health to all.

Wow, so many people get so incredibly defensive and irrational about this topic. I am talking about the people that - laughably - try to clothe their bad choice (and the outcome that they don't want to admit ownership of) in REAL social problems like racism, misogyny etc. The fact is that being overweight is, in fact, a CHOICE for the majority of people who are overweight. And it is well recognized that this is, generally, rather unhealthy. This is just reality people. Not some crazy wild conspiracy against obese people. You are being duped by a handful of corporate apologists for junkfood who just want to keep you eating and eating and eating (not to mention car manufacturers who want to keep you passive in your transportation habits). Would you like fries with that?

Oops I hit the submit key too early. Being overweight is a CHOICE made every day that a person eats more calories than they burn. I make that choice some days (some months) and I gain weight. And you know who is to blame for that? Me! And then I realize that I am getting unhealthy (in many ways) and - lo and behold - I make the CHOICE to cut down my eating and get more exercise. And then, miracle of miracles, I lose the weight. It's not as easy as gaining the weight, but it's possible. And it's possible for most people who are overweight. But some apparently don't want to make that choice, preferring to characterize themselves as victims. Well, in a sense, they are victims, but not of the health professionals whose duty it is to tell them of their folly. Rather, they are victims of the people selling them the products that make them overweight.

wow - you're in for it now, buddy. you are soon to be targeted, maimed and called a "fat hater" for speaking so. you will be told to go stand in front of the mirror and recognize your inherent weakness in fearing the fat and not accepting the tryglycerides as a beautiful part of life. shirin - it is useless against wind which cannot read - but that was a good article.

Wow! I haven't kept up with the comments and am amazed at how much my fat ass has been the topic of discussion! I'm not a freakish exception-I weigh 240lbs at 5'5" and have always been a regular exerciser. I don't eat junk food and my health is great. My doctor does not think I am healthy however-she thinks I'm a stupid,lazy, fat, ugly slob who needs to lose weight and is constantly trying to find something wrong with me. There are many fat healthy women in my gym who have been exercising forever and they too are still fat. In a former chronic yo-yo dieter like me, the simply cut back on calories equation is not so simple. I've trained my body to think there's another famine just around the corner. I eat healthier and less now then when I weighed 127lbs, but I'm still fat. I also exercise more intensively now. By the way shirin- the latest university of california study on type 2 diabetes confirms what other studies have shown. Even in patients who failed to lose weight, the improvement in blood sugar was similar in two groups of patients-those who lost weight and exercised and those who were unable to lose weight but exercised and ate healthier foods. What's so revolutionary about advocating a healthy diet and exercise? I guess I can pat myself on my big ugly jiggly bum which makes you all cringe with revulsion safe with the knowledge that it is providing you with the opportunity to believe that you're more worthwhle human beings that me and my fellow fatties. Who knew I was so special?;)

Cram, why do you think people judge you solely because of your weight? I can't imagine a doctor being so insensitive as to call you "a stupid, lazy, fat, ugly slob" - it sounds that whether or not the body is healthy the self-esteem area needs a shot in the arm. It is great that you take such good care of your health - and you are absolutely right about exercise improving insulin sensitivity (mostly in muscle tissue). My point was that we now can predict who will get Type 2 diabetes by a series of markers that show up on tests - called the "metabolic syndrome" - and people positive for 3 of the 5 are virtually guaranteed to become insulin resistant. Prevention is the best medicine - and you are obviously doing your part. Constant caloric restriction - or starvation diets - lead to the most energy-consuming tissue to be sacrificed by the body - namely muscle. Muscle mass is one of the main determinants of ones metabolic rate (which is why women tend to have lower metabolic rates than men - and thus need less calories to function). It sounds as though you have hypothyroidism - but your doctor must have already tested your thyroid function if she was concerned about your weight. Either way, you deserve a better doctor - why do you stay with someone you obviously feel thinks so little of you?

Shirin? My doctor does not call me any of those things, but its obvious by her demeanor and constant harping on about my weight that I repulse her. Other doctors? I've been to other doctors and its always the same attitude. You're fat, so you must be sick. You yourself are seeking to medicalise my weight thereby falling into the category of people like my doctor. The possibility that a fat person could be fit is just too mind boggling for you isn't it? As for self-esteem? Sorry, I'm not the lonely, miserable fat girl you would like me to be just because I choose to challenge the attitudes of fat haters. The real world that I live in is chock full of smug people who delight in judging and hating people like me. The real world also has an unfortunately much smaller, but thankfully more open-minded and tolerant group of people who view me as human. That's who I chose to spend my energy on. That's not a self-esteem issue, it's a reality. There's no point in me continuing to debate, because the possibility of fat being other than a sanctioned punching bag for the "I need someone to hate and feel superior to" majority is obviously too hard to fathom. Thankfully my ass is extremely cushy. Keep punching. I give up.

Shirin- you beat me to it again! Sam~~!!! Have you been to Asia???? Your comment that "the height and weight chart is a white and I would add a WASP and European ideal" is sooooooo off base I burst out laughing. Perhaps it started out as a "WASP" ideal but buddy, it has spread to reach all corners of the globe; trust me on that one. It has been taken to all-time new extremes in countries with NO white population.

Sam, your point that "Their body type dictates the norm" is a good point, but that is not what Shirin is talking about... what is going on in many parts of Asia these days regarding thinness (mainly in women) is WAY out of control and not at all normal by ANY standards. It's downright scary.

FiMaxwell - sorry for speaking your thoughts - but as they say - great minds think alike. I'm pretty sure that Sam my man had no trouble comprehending the essence of the argument - but we all have the freedom to interpret the way we want - I'm used to it as I have to deal with petulance often enough. Cram - you're right - I was moved to "medicalise" your 240 lbs on a 5'5 frame - despite eating with reservation and exercising with gusto as something terribly awry - especially since you used to weigh in at 127 lbs. You've essentially added another person on your frame, and apparently seem to think this the norm. The reason your doctor is concerned is because you are not just class I obese, or class II, - but you are bordering on class III (extreme obesity) with a BMI bordering on 40 - according to the NIH. Running around the block at this point is not recommended I imagine. I bet even Campos would not hesitate too long before admitting something is amiss. However, I shan't prolong the agony of this point any further.- The words compiled by the National Heart, Lung, and Blood Institute entitled Clinical Guidelines on the Identification, Evaluation, and Treatment of Overweight and Obesity in Adults: Evidence Report. It is available in pdf format - and says everything that needs to be said on the heavy subject (can be downloaded from http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/guidelines/obesity/practgde.htm). cheerios

once again, i just think that thin is better by the same token that lungs of nonsmokers are healthier; it is just easier on the system.

this is kind of sick, that we have to have this discussion in the first place. some things are obvious, less bodyfat means more agility, thus more control on motion, one thing less to worry about. Lots of letters here suggest, that there is a lot of money to be made by people who are proponents of obesity. Campos writes a" controversial" book, thus what is the difference between him and a writer of a faddish dietbook. Pharmaceutical companies and physicians can happily add new members to their clientele, more sick people are good for business.

Hey Withheld, no one who is a "fat acceptance" advocate disputes that being thin makes life easier. However, there are those of us (like myself) who find it pretty easy to diet/exercise into trimness and those who for whatever reason can't meet societal norms. Why not examine those norms for the sake of decency and compassion?

i cant even start to explain what bothers me about your letter, but i might as well try. first:societal norms.If anything, societal norms in north-america are on the side of fatties, nobody cares about how fat other people are, society could care less, everybody' s weight and size is a totally personal choice.Second: You are x-tremely patronizing, you think that anybody who is larger than you, needs compassion and decency.Why? Because you are supposedly healthier?You have no data to back that up, you might be healthier, you might be not, and it is totally irrelevant. I am happy for you that you have more selfdiscipline, that is nice, for you, but who cares. It does not give you a moral highground, to treat others with "compassion", as you word it.The premise of campos's book is that obesity does not equal disease and that research does not back up the notion that obesity equals disease, physical handicap, limit of kinetic ability and the like. This is pretty hippocritical, because he himself is thin . Would it not be better to advertize and foster behavior, that is positive.

i cant even start to explain what bothers me about your letter, but i might as well try. first:societal norms.If anything, societal norms in north-america are on the side of fatties, nobody cares about how fat other people are, society could care less, everybody' s weight and size is a totally personal choice.Second: You are x-tremely patronizing, you think that anybody who is larger than you, needs compassion and decency.Why? Because you are supposedly healthier?You have no data to back that up, you might be healthier, you might be not, and it is totally irrelevant. I am happy for you that you have more selfdiscipline, that is nice, for you, but who cares. It does not give you a moral highground, to treat others with "compassion", as you word it.The premise of campos's book is that obesity does not equal disease and that research does not back up the notion that obesity equals disease, physical handicap, limit of kinetic ability and the like. This is pretty hippocritical, because he himself is thin . Would it not be better to advertize and foster behavior, that is positive.

[to paraphrase Pastor Niemoeller] "They came for the smokers, but I was not a smoker, and so I did nothing. Then they came for the SUV drivers, but I was not an SUV driver, and so I did nothing. Then they came for the fat people, but I was not a fat person, and so I did nothing. And when they came for me, there was no one left to do anything....."

what a bunch of crap

what a bunch of crap

since when is having a lot of fatcells or adipotic tissue or whatever you name it between your epidermis , skin , whatever, and your bones constitute moral superiority or inferiority. your analogies are totally out of whack.

Overweight or obsese = unhealthy. Bottom line, accept it & get over it. Is it a choice? I'm not sure about that, it could be for some people. I believe some people are addicted to food rather than drugs or alcohol and should be treated as addicts.

i totally agree with ruby and would go one step further. If we have safe injection sites in the downtown eastside of vancouver, we have grocery stores like safeway and the like everywhere. It is basically the same except that this way of overconsumption fuels our economy.

http://www.hotshotdigital.com/WellAlwaysRemember.2/KarenCarpenter.htm l

Why does the topic of health have to be so complicated. Ask yourself one question -> Do you see anyone trying to justify the fact that they are skinny? People who know something is bad will try to justify this to other people in order to be comfortable with that which exists. Spare me your diabolic rant. Everything in moderation. Eat as much non-manufactured foods as possible. Exercise to increase your resting heart rate daily. Your mind and body will thank you.

Carl, are you overweight?

Carl I have had to justify my thinness on several occasions. Usually to overweight women who are making snide, jealous remarks about me. They're pissed because I'm 36 and I'm still thin and in fabulous shape. And you know why I'm still like that? Because I weight train, do cardio & pilates and I eat well. Yes I eat, actually I eat 6 times a day but it's all good food, no crap. I'm not like this from sitting on my ass, watching TV & over eating my bad food choices.

“Some obese people are unable to tell the difference between being scared, angry, and hungry, and so lump all those feelings together as signifying hunger, which leads them to overeat whenever they feel upset.” -- Daniel Goleman, “Emotional Intelligence” (Bantam trade paperback edition), page 248, © 1995 by Daniel Goleman. ISBN 0-553-37506-7.