never watched the show, but

never watched the show, but it looks like another brainwashing spin.
about the actor it shows that money corrupts!

this guy's name is perfect.

this guy's name is perfect. whaa, whaa, whaa. whatever happened to all the real men?

Ruper Murdoch is a Social Disease

It may be "just fiction", as G West says, but I don't doubt Murdoch views it as having propaganda value supporting the "need" for the Bush administration's (illegal) torture policies, and the war on terror.

I could never watch such a show for
entertainment. My tolerance for depictions of violence has disappeared. Just seeing a depiction of someone pointing a gun at someone else I now find offensive, viscerally.

I suspect the pervasiveness of graphic, though fictional, violence in movies, TV, and video games is probably a net negative for society.
There are some studies out there that suggest this is may possibly be the case.

But there exists such a strong demand for violent scenarios (and crack cocaine), that there will always be purveyors eager to supply, to make money.

Keifer and 24

The show is entertainment and nothing else. It is a great TV show - probably the best television show ever created!

Keifer is nothing more than an actor. In fact, his dad was an actor. The guy wouldn't know reality if it hit him in the face. He's constantly drunk, he's exposed himself in about 10 different countries, he's been arrested a couple of times - and I remember an incident a couple years back where he tackled a giant x-mas tree in some fancy hotel in England.

Who cares what he believes in. He doesn't believe in anything. He is little more than an good actor that likes to have a good time. Amen to that!!

Where are the Tyee slander police?

cappie ... you'd better be damn sure you can prove what you're saying about Kiefer Sutherland.

Cappy on others being dissolute

sez Cappy.

You must be joking!

And, from a guy who gets his jollies playing the tables and getting "shit-faced" I'd say you haven't a lot of room to talk...hypocrite. And you said that about yourself. Remember?

Maybe you recall the old work hard / play hard adage. Seems I've heard that from you too.

Mind you, I've been convinced since you changed your name from Mabellbc that you were something of an actor anyway.

Capitalism to Gavin

Gavin, if you read my post in full, I said "Amen to that". Quite frankly, I love it! Keifer is a lucky one! He relishes the fruits of a capitalistic, entertainment oriented society.

The guy acts for a living and parties his face off!! If I were him, I'd be having as much fun!

All i'm saying is that let's not read this for more than it is. The guy is an actor, spoiled with riches and fame. These guys have the luxury of having too much money, too much time and a complex of being more than an actor. Go look at Angelina Jolie - 35 years old (or something) searching desparately for a sense of purpose.

He doesn't stand for anything. It is a big paycheck, a hit show and a lot of fun....you think he stops to think about how this reflects on the Bush administration.

The guy is no hypocrite - this show is not spin. It is entertainment, but good on the Tyee for trying to turn it into some conspiracy theory.

Same Value

I'm sure this show has the same impact as the evening news on Fox. How would one tell the difference anyway?

spoiled with riches

Just like you Cappy!

And it's not the best thing on TV. By a long shot.

I take it you haven't seen THE WIRE.

He stands at least, on the basis of the interview with Charlie Rose, for something a little less evanescent and meretricious than you do.

Hollywood huh The Tyee are

Hollywood huh
The Tyee are there not much more pressing real news out there?
Television the most mind numbing all-consuming media to keep the masses dumbed down (Reality shows, ET, Hollywoods Self-righteous awards and everything about them is decadent in your face look at us! three minutes of commercials every 12 minutes etc) and the news is not news as to what really is happening in the world of takeovers, massive layoffs, outsourcing, corporate corruption on a level never before seen in history.
Check out http://www.killercoke.org/protest.htm
http://home.freeuk.net/freenations/british-eurofederalists.html

BC Dude's Got it About Right,

...IMO.

One reason the general population is so poorly informed on national and world affairs is 'cause so many of them spend so much time
watching infotainmen and MSM news which
keeps them semi-informed and misinformed.

After watching the "news", and feeling freshly up-to-date on world goings on, they can relax the rest of their evenings away with low-brow violence or reality TV, or other escapist fare, as their brains get conditioned to want to buy lots of advertised stuff they probably have no need for whatsoever.

How else do you explain that for the longest time most Americans continued to believe Saddam had something to do with 911?
Or, that Saddam DID possess WMDs, and that such weapons in fact had been discovered - that was another common belief.

I say leave that TV off a little more often, folks!

Gavin

I take it you haven't seen THE WIRE.

I've seen the Wire through the season where Omar and the assassin from NY kill Stringer Bell. It is a great show! I don't really have a ton of time to watch TV, so I buy all these series on DVD. I watch most of the HBO programs. I loved Oz, and really enjoy the Wire. I especially liked the Series with the dockworkers - though my wife didn't.

My wife bought me 24 - Season 1 for Christmas a few years back. I had no interest! One saturday night, after an extremely long week at work, I stopped by BCL and picked upa 6 pack of Kokanee. It was about 9PM and I was exhausted. I cracked a beer and turned on 24 with my wife. We were up until 5AM watching episode after episode!! I haven't been to bed at 5 AM since my days at UBC - Vegas notwithstanding!!

My favourite series is Carnivale. It is an HBO series. It is very, very good. Set in the dust bowl, which actually resulted in thousands of Oklahomans migrating to the Canadian Praries - including both my parents families when they were young.....Check it out Gavin! You made me some money on Alcan - the least I can do is find you something good to watch!!!

That being said - I've never been captivated by TV the way I was that evening I first saw 24!

entertainment or propoganda?

I am fervently anti-Bush, anti-war, anti-torture and anti-death penalty! And yet I am pro-Jack Bauer. The agents and agencies in the show have dealt with this issue (torture) since season #1.

I can watch a TV show without it having to reflect my particular point of view about politics... it's called entertainment... fiction... don't take everything so bloody seriously!!

Funny Thing....

I remember an article about a year ago where this site commended and raved about the West Wing and its characters. That show, which I actually really liked, was perhaps the biggest piece of left-wing democratic propaganda i've ever seen!

If I was an American I wouldn't vote. Each party is completely out of touch - but as much as I do not align with the American Democrats, I really enjoyed the drama on the show!!

This hypocricy is what keeps bringing me back to the site. They'll praise it one way - and attack it the other.

Canadian eh?

Damn fine entertainment too! But do Americans generally know the difference between fantasy and reality? They elected him twice. They bought into the war on terror and are still in Iraq. No, GI Joe, John Wayne, the Marlboro man, and Rambo all add to the set of this fantasy. The country has an ego problem, a bully syndrome if you will. I think they suffer from low self esteem and make TV shows like this one to feel better about themselves. Making the eventual fall higher and harder. On the other hand, that is going to make for one great episode of "Amerika's Worst Disasters" caught on film.

It's mostly torture

T.V. has always been a semi-welcome guest in this house. When it was 20+ below for more than a week at a time (in the old days), we gave in and re-subscribed for a few months. We appear to have given it up entirely two years ago now, with my own last viewing coincidentally being two episodes of "24" which my teenage son thought I should watch with him. It seemed, like most American television, to be clear propaganda to me. A family of politically religious Turks were busy poisoning their son's girlfriend and the Dad went on to attempt murder of his own son for betrayal of the anti-American cause. The Americanized son, of course, had no choice but to shoot his own father and - thank God - there was a mother involved who could not help (in her Americanized way) but help to save the son before being slaughtered herself. I believe that my intelligent analysis of the plot went as follows: "Wow!"
Despite having no T.V. in our house, my two young daughters bring its influence home from their contacts at school, other advertising aimed at them, presents (which we parents consider inappropriate) from grandparents (whom we can't convince to stop providing more crap for us to deal with) and less than stellar literature available to them at local libraries. I listen to the them playing with their new Polly Pocket figures, having the characters argue about whose outfit is "cuter" and who saw who at the mall (the mall? When's the last time we went to "the mall" around here?) - and I go off on semi-regular rants with them regarding the value of their own intelligence and personalities, staying silent at times in order to encourage them to work out their own interactions with the world.... and mostly I just wonder at the pervasiveness of it all. Where do all these (American) values come from and how did it become part of the air my kids breathe? In a house full of books and no T.V. or audible media. With parents who could hardly be less engaged with popular culture....
And then I wonder what the right approach to it all might be. Clearly, I cannot and would not ban it all from our house. But, please God and all that's good, don't make me watch all that crap with them in order to help them "interact" with it all. Is that or "banishment" my only choice?
The line between rejection of the propaganda and complete withdrawal from the world in which my kids seem to live requires vigilant sruveilance it seems.
Maybe I should just buy them all cell phones and then have them tapped.

Anyone seen "The

Anyone seen "The Sentinel"...???

Keifer was in it with Michael Douglas...
Seemed like a similar role as he does in "24"

I thought "The Sentinel" was the sh!tes though...( as was Mission Impossible 3 )

Recommend " Lucky Number Slevin " and " Why We Fight " .

Sadam and WMD's

Bobb999 said,

"How else do you explain that for the longest time most Americans continued to believe Saddam had something to do with 911?
Or, that Saddam DID possess WMDs, and that such weapons in fact had been discovered - that was another common belief."

Of course he had WMD's. One American journalist said to Jon Stewart that we know he has WMD's because we have the receipts.

bobb999

Didn't I hear that the Bush "administration" pays for such rah-rah-rah promotions? If so, what would Fox and Murdoch's views be if that funding was cut?

American Culture

The Americans created The Wire, Deadwood, Sopranos, Nip Tuck, Dead Like Me, 24 Hours, Roots, Steinfeld, MASH, Prison Break, Ed Sullivan Show, Dallas, Dynasty and I not need go on.
Jazz, rock and roll, gospel, marching bands, hip-hop, The Grateful Dead, Elvis, Louis Armstrong in the early 20th century, actually working on gambling boats floating down the Mississippi River, grooving on his trumpet and virtually inventing jazz music.
All that we sing in are own mind was created by Americans. ( not to dismiss Gordon Lightfoot or all other Canadian musicians. ) but it was America that gave us all of the above contributions to our culture.
So my point is that American Culture doesn't have to answer to anyone. It just has to continue to give us entertainment in a free way, that justifies their existence.
And that's just fine for me.
God Bless America.

The last major country to

The last major country to give up slavery; segregated schools; bans on gay marriage; the KLU KLUX KLAN; 40 odd million people with no health insurance; 5% of the world's population and 25% percent of the total prison population in the world; a laughable minimum wage; infant mortality that's worse than many developing countries; a lower life expectancy than Canada; the fattest population in the world; lower rates of literacy than Cuba; almost 9 Trillion dollars in debt; a negative national savings rate; an economy so sick Ben Bernanke today warned of its dire consequences; a president who a majority of Americans think is the worst president in history; greater income disparity in the G8....Fox News..3,000 dead soldiers in Iraq, tens of thousands injured...34,000 Iraqis killed in just 2006.....

I can go on forever Ron. That's quite a record and I haven't even started on the environment.

That stuff ok with you too. Does all that justify their existence?

Why don't you just head on down to San Diego and schmooze with your sister. I bet you guys agree on Everything, eh.

for cryin' out loud

What on Earth are people commenting on an handsome child who made it in LA for?
Who cares what Keifer is or thinks
I'm disgusted

sorry about that

I came home, did not read the article or the comments and posted a sentiment I may or may not agree with after I check what was said.

Actors

Do actors always play roles that they would agree with in "real life"? Of course not... I doubt Sutherland is pro-torture.

Bringing up the fact that he is the grandson of Tommy Douglas and that his father protested the war in Vietnam are total red herrings. It is like the author is saying that Jack Bauer betrayed his grandfather and father! Jack Bauer is not related to Donald Sutherland or Tommy Douglas.

Donald Southerland played the role of a U.S. army general in Outbreak (w/ Dustin Hoffman) who wanted to turn the virus int a bio-weapon. Should his father be ashamed of him?

VanIsle Guy

It's a very poorly researched article. The majority of references are from the earlier series and the writer ignores Keifer's public statements about torture and how useless and wrong it is. As well as his clear identification with social justice and left politics - as any Canadian should know.

There is an unfortunate tendency in a lot of Tyee writing to come at things from what can only be said to be an American point of view.

When Charlie Rose interviewed Sutherland last week he didn't even have his facts straight about Tommy Douglas and it had to be pointed out to him that Douglas was never Prime Minister of Canada.

Yeah, Keifer's a poster boy, alright.

I guess it's all a matter of how close to personal idealism one tries to stay. I, for instance, always turn down opportunities for making money if I think they will tend to turn me into a Judas.

I remember especially being offerred a big superintendent job in exchange for some minor betrayal of my boss. (The guy even showed me some bonusable gold bars) Coulda been a 'contenda' in the construction industry, as Marlon Brando said in that movie.

We all have opportunities to show how much (or how little)integrity we have. Of course, as might have been noticed around here, I tend towards self-righteousness.

Keifer's turned himself into a perpetual maniquin for the 'ticking time bomb' syndrome. (A torturer's delight). I think he should be soundly heckled the next time he drops into Canada.

Jon Wiener got it exactly right, I think.

What a little puke has our Keifer become!

And what a disgusting program.

I think this season may be different

Until I watched the first 4 hours of this new season - something I'd never done before for largely the same reasons you mention above - I'd have totally agreed with you.

I saw the Charlie Rose interview and it made me curious enough to tune in for the first two sessions...

You go ahead and be self-righteous. I'm going to watch a couple more episodes. Maybe it was something about the image of an atomic bomb’s mushroom cloud wiping out an LA neighbourhood.

Usually that kind of mayhem only happens in other places...and for once Jack Bauer didn't save the day.

series

well I still think this topic may be one of the more vacant that thetyee has engaged in.
I love fantasy, don't get me wrong, but what is a discussion of a rip off doomsday scenario doing on this site?

If we were critiquing movies (which I guess we are now) I would recommend the "Serenety" series.

you're right Ken

It is pretty light stuff...just that mushroom cloud over LA....and the terrorist who set it off was played by the CBC comic Shaun Majumdar. Never seen him scowl before.

Did you watch it?

The problem with Amerika-philes.....

....is they they have one eye shut. I would hazard a guess that the positive things to come out of The Excited States, did so out of spite.

G West

Was Shaun sweating..........?

like a pig

He played a terrorist/scientist character who puts together the bomb components as the good guys are raiding the deserted factory - at the last moment he flips a toggle switch & boom. Bob's your uncle.

Spin Doctoring

This is a bit of topic, however I want to pass this info on.
CBC Radio One is broadcasting a series called Spin Cycles: A Series About Spin, The Spinners And The Spun during the final hour of the Sunday Edition, beginning on January 21 at 11 a.m.

North of Hope

Thanks for that - tomorrow at 11 am - I'll try to listen.

G West

Yes....but was he sweating, as he does so well as a character in 22 Minutes...?

One good thing to come from the states..

The best thing ever to come out of the States, as far as I can tell, was my grandpa--in l910. He just got tired of all that lynching, and those families out for a Sunday afternoon, laughing and chuckling, as they hung a black guy for getting uppity, then burned him alive before lifting him off the ground like a fireworks display.

The United States is not a good place for human beings.

Rick W

Oh, he was sweating, that answer was in my subject line - immediately under yours.

Sorry - I don't know what else to do with that 'subject' thing but play games with it.

Truman

There must have been a couple other things too, over the years - but in the main I agree with you.

Have a look at this pathetic little story from Georgia - in tomorrow's NYTimes.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/21/us/21fugees.html?hp&ex=1169355600&en=87e5a535bcd9d008&ei=5094&partner=homepage

G West: Reading 101

I'd better take some lessons........(blush)

G West

How about this one:
http://idexer.com/2007/01/11/pizza-chain-under-fire-for-letting-customers-pay-with-pesos.html

Truman, will you be

Truman, will you be celebrating your family's centennial in Canada in 2010?

And hey, is that your ... um, err ... bro on the Pacific Gazette top story right now?

And if so, are you as handsome as that?

Because I thought there was a Divine Covenant which promises that nobody is allowed to be really good-looking and really, really smart all at the same time, eh?

Keifer Shmeifer duh How can

Keifer Shmeifer duh
How can this be happening in April it becomes law?
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/westview/story/3758460p-4345834c.html
What the hell is gordo/traitor doing with Alberta's Barf/Ralph Klein?
This will come about before the 2003 BC Legislature Raids trials humm I smell Dirty RATS!
Check it out maybe I'm wrong and things are just peachy in lotus land.

BC Mary you are absolutely

BC Mary you are absolutely right about the Van Sun and the International press coverage of these most heinous crimes not being investigated from 78-91 why?
Not to take any steam away from the pig farm.
I think maybe someone should give some of these real International investigative reporters a heads up on this 2003 BC Provincial Legislature Raids scandal.

Yes, BC Mary, that's my bro, alright.

Yes, Mary, I just had a look. That's my bro, alright, but I'm not overly confident that a family centennial will be in the cards.

As for 'looks,' well, not wishing to run afoul of the 'beauty's only skin-deep' caveat...well...uh, thanks for the compliment(s).

Interesting story, G.West! I'm not really an anti-America bigot, though.

Well...a little bit, maybe.

American complicity and more

From Testimony before a US Senate Committee last week - you need Quicktime installed to listen.

http://www.vivek.ca/arar.mp3

Entertainment can be used as propoganda

Sure it is. That's why advertisers spend gazillions on entertaining tv ads... because our mindset is never framed by that which we absorb as entertainment.

Clearly some folk need to grab a clue.

I watched amost an entire

I watched amost an entire episode a few months ago.

If you get right into it--suspended disbelief and all--you can put yourself in jeopardy of getting a case of malignant hypertension, and a stroke.

I mean, have you seen the stats on deaths of viewers--especially seniors.

I seen this one study where they claim that 92% of viewers over 60 who watched Bauer kill people, (he even bit one guy to death last week, I think) just dropped dead with strokes.

Kidding!

24

This is one show I have never watched, and never will. I have an excellent idea of the content, and have no desire to watch yet another show about paranoid politics advertsing guns and ammo.

The steady diet of TV violence bothers me more as I get older. Watching old movies shows how the standards have changed. Dirty Harry Callahan looks tame beside today's "heroes".

How much further can TV go and still be watchable? I enjoy the Law & Order shows, but had to complain when Law & Order SVU was shown at 5:00 pm on Channnel 10. It was a relief when they switched it to the 7:00 pm slot. At least mom and dad are watching with the kids.

The 24 series would be fun if it weren't for the fact that life imitates art imitates life.

24

This is one show I have never watched, and never will. I have an excellent idea of the content, and have no desire to watch yet another show about paranoid politics advertsing guns and ammo.

The steady diet of TV violence bothers me more as I get older. Watching old movies shows how the standards have changed. Dirty Harry Callahan looks tame beside today's "heroes".

How much further can TV go and still be watchable? I enjoy the Law & Order shows, but had to complain when Law & Order SVU was shown at 5:00 pm on Channnel 10. It was a relief when they switched it to the 7:00 pm slot. At least mom and dad are watching with the kids.

The 24 series would be fun if it weren't for the fact that life imitates art imitates life.

oh yeah

Expand your horizons... if it was just "24" we might not have too much to worry about but if you look at other shows, "reality" shows like Dallas SWAT and COPS and... there's a lot of iffy crud coming down on citizens. Just about every "police" show has physical violence not only tolerated but glorified... especially when it is used against citizens.

Was a time we taught our kids to trust policemen. Now we call them cops and more and more of them are charged with rights abuses... but not to worry, we'll all get conditioned to accept it, then we'll hardly be upset at all.

That's what scares me, Anne ...

What scares me is the likelihood of the Pickton trial becoming a gory horror show which will be used by the commercial media to attract viewers and to sell more advertising.

The Bay Boy

Several years ago, Kiefer Sutherland acted in a movie called "The Bay Boy." It is a great movie, at least I liked it and I think you should look at it. It is a coming of age story of a young man in Glace Bay, N.S. It does show he does have talent if you don't think "24" does. I do watch "24" on ocassion and even though I may miss an episode, it doesn't seem to detract from the flow of the series. realizing this, I am not compelled to ensure I have control of the the remote or even in the room when the show is on.