I am absolutely appalled by the insensitive and ill advised decision to build these ferries in a foreign country.While talking to a retired shipbuilding builder in B.C., he advised me that the ship building industry will be set back ten years. What kind of government would allow this to happen?

shipbuilding industry? my shiny butt. I served an apprenticeship as a machinist/fitter in the 'shipbuilding industry' here in the lower mainland, finishing in the early 1980s. using machine tools that literally built stuff for WW 1, as well as 'new' tools that were made under 'war orders acts' for WW 2, we were not competetive 20 odd years ago, and we are even less competitive now. take a look at the drydock sitting at Burrard, excuse me, Washington Marine Group, which was built in Japan, and towed into Vancouver harbour one sunny day in the early 80s. If we were capable, we could have built it here. We are no more capable now, no more competitive, and no more a 'shipbuilding' region.

And never will be with the BC Liars in charge.

a very funny piece but ...ah, but..humourless feminist bitch that I am...Krupp steel...aren't they the same Krupps who supported Hitler? And aren't "our" ferries being built by companies whose feet stand on the bones of millions of dead slaves from the labour brigades of Auschwitz and Bergen-Belsen? I don't know about anybody else but things like that tend to piss me off! mind you, where the Fiberals are concerned I do recognize my own growing pissed offedness! AH, but now we have a bull-**** , oops, I mean billion dollar surplus...where in hell did it come from? Why, from the hides, bones and blood of the working poor, the unrepresented ill and the kids too young to vote, THAT is where they got that money. grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr snarl gnash hiss

to all those who say bc shipyards can always bid for the smaller vessels that need to be built over the next 15 years.. all tho nothing is signed its going to be a done deal that all those small vesles that run the smaller routes will be built in poland... they've been talking for months... once the campbell corp and david hahn say "no decisions have been made" be sure the deal is done yet again, to exclude any bid from locals.. if this is working for the good of all british columbians... god help us come next may...2 decades ago we the citizens of this province would be outraged at this... even as little as 4 years ago... but the can west global corp, circle the wagons round our fearless leader.. touting how great it is... when our govermnet outsourses its workers and industries like one big garage sale. the m.l.a.'s will never be held to account... all they have to do is say i need to be with my child.. they have no honour no decency... we jump all over other politicos for wrong doings those folks who resigned had the decency to do so... to bad the word decency appplies to none of the bc libs traitors all of them they will sell you and your grandmother out for the cheapest buck.. wait for more coming if they renew a second term

Gutter-talk is not helping. I resent being spoken to in these terms. It makes us all sound like losers. Please discuss how B.C. might revitalize its shipyards, upgrade its shipbuilders, and get things back on track wherever need be.

It is unbelieveable that the government would turn it's back on the ship builders of this province. I would like to know who they are planning on having do the warranty repair work. My guess is the local shipyards won't be too keen to empty their drydocks to repair a boat they didn't build. On another note if in fact the government is correct in estimating there isn't the skilled workforce to build the boats they have only themselves to blame. They and they alone gutted one of the best apprentice programs in the world.

What's with all the whining? Do you think that BC Ferries deliberately went out and searched for a non-BC company, because they wanted to avoid our own shipyards? Perhaps swearing repeatedly and making veiled "Nazi" references will change peoples' minds. Or maybe, as Mary implied (above), it will just delay the time when a discussion of improvements is possible.

sure...and pigs can fly too

Honestly... I don't know enough about this situation to make a fair judgement call, and I doubt any of you do either. What I do know is this... a few years back we the people of BC were royally screwed by our fellow citizens who built the totally useless and wildly overbudget fast ferries. I might feel a bit more indignant if this hadn't happened, but in light of this experience I'm afraid that I can't help but think these guys brought this upon themselves. Funny how nobody seems to think that maybe there wouldn't be repercussions from that fiasco. It's time to accept this loss, and move on. Don't like the Liberals? Tell them with your vote. Unfortunately the other guys weren't exactly doing a bang-up job either.

The fast ferry fiasco has absolutely nothing to do with the present situation. David Hahn has an agenda--to have BC Ferries play its part in union busting in this province. Those ferries could have, and should have, been built here in BC. Gordon Campbell, David Hahn and Kevin Falcon have taken their lead from Maggie Thatcher--just 20 years ago, when the shipyards in Glasgow were anxious for work, the Conservatives had Royal Navy ships built in Korea. The shipyards are now idle and thousands of workers displaced and having to make-do with low paying jobs. All part of globalization.

Anti German sentiment isn't funny. The political left thinks it's just great to be intolerant as long as the intolerance is directed towards excepted groups i.e. Germans, Christians, guys etc. but don't say anything against Stalin or Sven Robinson... This kind of 'news' is just really shitty propaganda and it sucks. I'm glad the Liberals are doing something for this province to make it a better place for young people to live and work. The amount of money the left is willing to waste is incredible... where do they think all of the money comes from? Should we buy more fast ferries, maybe the last ferries didn't cost enough? Just remember this, it's not 'government' money—it's our money and we need jobs and a good economy to keep it flowing. And a message to the old lefty hippies: I'm tired of paying for the debt you guys racked up under previous governments... or let me put it simply: money comes from somewhere; if you borrow ten bucks before pay day you'll be short ten bucks on pay day... get it?

I'm familiar with your site, which is a good local alternative news source. At least it wasn't a tank or a battleship or...(shudder) a VW Beetle! Ironically there is a german company that currently does lead the world in research around using large inflatable airships to carry cargo. They are called Cargolifter, but I think they went into receivership recently. I don't really get the point of this, though, Germany historically and currently is a world leader in shipbuilding and engineering when it comes to any form of transportation, not just cars: railways, aircraft, etc. So why is everyone always poking fun when Germans are involved in anything? Jealousy, I think.

The reality is that the corporations that run the shipyards have refused to invest the money to build ferries in BC. Washington Marine Group does not want to build ships in BC - no amount of knashing of teeth or moaning at government will change that. People talk about several thousand jobs being lost in BC - that is part of the problem, the Germans will the build the ships with 600 workers. This is because they are getting more and more productive in building them - something business in BC has not done. There is a constant global demand for Roll on Roll Off ferries. But the companies in BC decided long ago - the 1980s - to not try to get this work. THEY DO NOT WANT TO BUILD LARGE FERRIES - how much clear can their actions be? Canada has added new ships to the Navy, the latest being submarines built in the UK (and not working properly when delivered) - no one pilloried the federal Liberal government for not letting any Canadian shipyards build them. This being the UK that had some of their latest ferries build in Finland. So why should I as a user of the ferries pay a pile of extra money to the Washington Marine Group? Do they need more money to build more of their own ships in China? The extra $160 000 000 in spending is worth 1600 jobs that will be saved in BC by not wasting the money. BC Ferries has a fiduciary obligation to the travelling public to provide a high quality transporation network for the lowest cost. There is no argument that can counter that duty of the company. As a company that is no longer politically controlled, David Hahn and the board can and should be sued if they do not choose the best deal for the ships. David Hahn is not causing any problems for the shipyards, he is simply goign with the flow that local government and the shipyards chose for him. Local governments that are driving industrial development out of BC. North Van would perfer to have the shipyard lands as housing and offices. Victoria's harbour is going condo. Local govt meanwhile charges industry up to 10x as much in property tax as residential for industry. In many cases the property taxes on indsutrial lands and buildings is more than the cost for 100% financing of the business. Meanwhile in Washington state the industrial property tax is the same as the residential. There are things we build in BC and things we do not. We once built airplanes in BC, but that is no longer here. We build no cars in BC, though new factories for cars open in North America every few weeks and none of them come to BC. We in BC thrive through doing and making what we can more efficiently than others - films, 2x4s, video games, OSB, snowboards, coal, luxury yachts etc.... Should we stop all but Canadian film making in BC? Should we bar German tourists or tell them they can not use plywood from Savona for concrete forms on their biggest building projects - such as the Flensburger Shipyard? Spending money on businesses that do not make economic sense leaves us poorer. David Hahn and Gordon Campbell should never be blamed for the failures of the corporations or the anti-industrial behaviour of municipalties with shipyards. Fast Ferries is a relevant comparison - it was a government attempt to use its umph to try and get a business going. In hindsight, as much as I thought it was a bold idea at the time, government can not and should not intervene that directly in choosing businesses to support. addemdum So Anne, should Germany be an impoverished agarian nation? Should the people of Germany forever suffer for the actions of 1933 to 1945? Should the workers at Flensburger be penalised even though all of them were born after the war? Did Germany industry not have to go through fundamental changes between 1945 and 1950 as forced upon them by the Allies? Germany (in the west that is) remains hyper aware of what Germans did during WW2. Their are no illusions and endless navel gazing as to what Germans did and did not do in the war.

the problem with the fast ferries: 1) built through (not by) bc ferries - mandated by government to bring the shipbuilding industry into the newest technology in the world. Not really a bad idea to invest in training BC residents so they can earn a good living and pay good taxes. 2) keeping this idea hidden - by making BC ferries "order" these ferries - which BC ferries - and their union all knew from the start were not suitable for our type of ferry runs. 3) the new liberal government seems to like the slanted bidding process. only 3 companies were "ALLOWED" to bid on the fast cats - 2 drop out -- my my what a coincidence... and the ships were given away. Those were good ships - just not suitable for here!!! we were robbed - and it continues - David Hahn said over and over again at the non - AGM that NOW the canadian bidders have a road map about how they should have bid - it wasn't given to them before the bid - but after. He admitted that they "normally" take 6 to 8 bidders into the final round - but this time they decide on 3 -- the canadians were number 5... This is happening all over the fleet - in Powell River there was a new building needed. This new private BC ferry company planned for and had over a dozen contractors from out of Powell River flown into town to spend 4 hours going over all the reqirements - each one was given a set of blueprints and almost 3 weeks to put their bid in order. The local contractors in Powell River were told there was ONE only set of blue prints that they could look at - not have - just look at down at the ferry terminal. And they were given less than 4 hours to get a bid in. Anyone see a pattern here?

I suspect washington marine group is not whining about the loss of the ferry construction because they got the fastcats at a discount price what a nice little trade off amongst friends eh. Where are the fastcats now has anyone heard? This is the same old story of divide and conguer make the suits and bankers think that union workers are over paid and over worked so they can be easily hated and despised. It is like class warfare and it has worked really well for the likes of mulroney thatcher reagon etc. It is easy to hate a local worker trying to earn a living when you are miserable isn't it. Sending the work offshore makes no sense if you believe in your local community, union workers were always supporting local business but I doubt they are now, I am not, why when I can buy something from an american store sending the profits to the states and the work to asia at half the price? So why support any local jobs why not just put everyone out of work we can all be beggers and land pimps selling our homes to rich americans looking to cash in on our cheap medial while it lasts. I for one do not have to work in b.c., I am a tradesman in a union with tickets that are in demand all over north america and now northern africa and europe, we do not have to depend on gordo the drunk for work, on the contrary he will never affect me but what pisses me off is the fact that young people would benefit the most from shipbuilding and they are the ones who should be angry instead they bitch about the previous generation leaving them the debt. Whiners like jordan to blind to see who really left them in debt believing all the media rhetoric instead of spending some time learning who really drove this province and country into debt and it wasn't the left.

Fast Ferries. Everybody always trots out the Fast Ferries ad infinitum but nobody ever talks about the Osprey: a ferry, which looks great, runs great and was built ON BUDGET right here in the Kootenays! I guess it's taboo to equate NDP with success in the mainstreaam nedia. As far as going to Germany goes, a much better effort should have been made in trying to avoid going abroad. Alas, there was no political will to take a second look or go the extra nautical mile. Have a Martini!

is it ok if you know your car was built or assembled outside of canada to complain about this german deal? just a thought since billions of dollars , go to workers pay checks ,to buy toyotas hondas etc. would that not mean as a faithful canadian i am supporting other countries work forces or outsourcing jobs by funding same? as a sidebar at previous gatt mettings some manufacturers of autos lobby to get the nuber system obfuscated. you seee a vin number starting with two is indicative of final assembly point in canada others such as one indicate u.s. as final assembly point. just let me get it straight, some people in unions in /or the NDP in B.C. might drive autos built by people in korea say or bavaria but might object if their govt outsources the ferry labour transportation contracts,oh my oh my hypocrates must be laughing

check the flensberger web site , mr egon oldendorff owner,he purchased the Kiel assembly drydock which is enclosed and locate at the eastern end of the kiel canal in 1990 , at a fire sale so top speak. but warned though he ha s a stake in a shanghai drydock/marine facility which is expanding. ITcurrently o is for repairs of his ships.but one can conjecture that in some time in the future completely knocked down sub assemblies may be built in china, floated to germany and voila ! a german final assembly point. This is progress,no? the Campbellites would benefit from the horrid legacy left from the past as Anne Cameron outlined.of course one of the enduring mottos of this neo-con thinking is " the end justifies the means".The taxpayers will benefit ask any Campbellite. the misnomer of liberal was just an expedience to get voted in.

So long as the West gives it's production to the East there will be problems in having heavy industries competitive in the Western Hemisphere. That these ferries have gone to Europe is indicative of the specialisations that now exist in the industry, and only by the skin of the teeth. Be thankful that they did not go to the East. As for the local industry, what have unions and owners done in the last however many years to foster a competitive industry, probaly at each others throats and in the meantime someone else steals the bone. Has happened in so many places. Once the East controls all, then what will our childrens children do??? (look at who is driving the oil costs today!) So the democratic right allows you to show your contempt in the ballot box, but recall that those of you who let it get this way will continue to fight and not only will the bone be gone but even its shadow and delicious smell that once ws enjoyed by all. Time to work together while there is still a chance.

from my office downtown I can look to North Van and see the fast cats sitting in the water...and they havent moved in a LONG time...

Fast cat ferry was it a fiasco? If i beleive the reports about 400 millions got put thru workers pay cheques into the economy from tax payers funds/general revenue/ credit/bonds. This must have had some impact on the economy of the province,buying houses etc. or do workers not spend it in the right businesses? The hullabaloo put up by the press and TV media ranting about a fiasco was it just a protest that funds did not go their way? Now the campbell gov't is buying advertising again at many venues that ranted, perhaps paying for the assistance rec'd. Quid pro quo I think is the modus operandi of the day. The ideological campbell gov't is a real howler, the unions benefited from the contracts for the ferries not the exactly friendly to campbell crowd. Most voters can be pushed by fear and loathing this is well known,did it happen here? Suppose it did .

Shipyard Flensberger has now told its workers to work at no pay this year for forty hours and next year 88 hours at no pay. Reason given ,to come in on budget for the new B.C. ferries. Saw this report in the gulf islands paper, funny i did not see it in Vancouver nor Victoria paper?

you can bet that this will cost more in the long run, I agree that our unions seem to price them selves out of work all the time and treat non union ppl like dog dirt and expect more than non union ppl even if the union is doing the same job this government is anti BC anti Canadian and I can't see how this will save us money esp. when these Americans in Victoria parlament gave away the over priced fast cats, those ferries were a thorn in the tax payers side but they could have been used from tswassen to duke point in the summer months and with the right promotion could have served as a connector to sport fishing on Vancouver Island, with the right marketing tools could have brought alot of American $$ to BC. But No can't do that lets give them away for next to nothing and buy 3 new ships for horseshoe bay/departure bay route and pay for it in euros and call it dollars to us stupid Canadians and say its going to be cheaper. what about the spirt class ships we have right now? they were built here they work fine. I don't think the new C-class types are going to be any larger and you can bet that these will be built with the same type of tech the spirit class ships have. I would like to see what these new ships are going to look like, but I bet they don't have any plans drawn up yet just like the fast cats with no plan just a nice drawing of some boat that looks like what they want. these guys just do what they want and I'm guessing that the price expectations that BC ferries have is not even close to realistic, what corners are they going to cut to make it on budget other than making ppl work for free? as much as I hate unions I want to say GOOD job on the spirt class ships by BC ship builders and other ferries built in the past by them.