Correction: Not "deregulated

Correction: Not "deregulated money creation problems", but "powers"

Ed Deak.

Being an older boomer I made

Being an older boomer I made a comment to 90+ year old woman last year about how us baby-boomers have screwed up this world (re; pollutian, world financing ponsi schemes, etc etc). Her come-back was that we were only partly resonsible; her generation too was responsible because they let us get away with it.

I agree with you Ed 100%.

I agree with you Ed 100%. How come we seem to be so smart and educated but certainly act so stupid.

Look to Saskatchewan

For over two decades, Saskatchewan has had the honour/shame of being the "oldest" province in Canada. We've been exporting our youth for over a generation and now the chicks are coming home to roost.

Maybe our experiences will have something to say to the rest of Canada?

How does this economy work?

This article is really unclear on how this economic shift is supposed to occur and operate. Reading between the lines, I think this is what's being said:

The boomers will realize that they need to grow the tax base to continue subsidizing their health care. The government will focus on increasing productivity through education. The young workers will start thinking of themselves in their grandparents' shoes and happily pay higher taxes because the economy keeps growing. Since this growth is pure productivity, it will be sustainable.

Is that what you were trying to get across, Crawford?

What is "productivity". More

What is "productivity". More resources wasted for the production of more profitable garbage ? How is productivity measured ? By replacing workers with automation ?

Service jobs are not "productive", but "parasitic"

You can't fire the the production workers in a factory and increase the janitors and office workers, paying them from the sale of infrastructure, machinery and lands.

Which is what Canada is doing right now, while filling our lives and garbage dumps with the pathetic junk made by Asian slave labour and poisoning the environment with the transport of "cheap" products that could be made locally with the fraction of physical inputs.

Ed Deak.

Change, it is a comin'

This demographic shift is going to mean a profound change in our country. It is already happening. It is going to mean closing schools and opening care facilities. It is going to mean that our already high health budget is going to get even higher. It means that more immigration is a certainty.

I am a late, late boomer, right at the end. I have already noticed mass retirements in practically every institution I deal with, be it City Hall or ICBC. It means that may organisations are at the moment dealing with an inexperienced staff that makes more mistakes that we are used to.

It also means that boomers will be the ones howling the loudest and resisting change the most. They can resist all the want but it is going to happen anyway. Canada will be a very different place in thirty years than it is now.

A minor statistical quibble

If the "median age at death [is] 81.1", that does not mean that "half of us born in 1944 or earlier will die after 2025".

It means that half of the people who die in 2025 would have been born in 1944 or earlier. It doesn't sound so optimistic when written that way, I know, but it is a natural result of measuring death rates based on the year they occur, not on the year when someone was born.

To understand the difference, think of a generation with high mortality rate early on in life (say, those who were young adults during WWI and the 1918 flu pandemic). The people who survived that period might then have long life, and depending on changing birth rates, they might later be more numerous in old age (and death) than those born in later decades, creating a high median age-at-death in the year they die. But the average lifespan of their birth cohort would still be low because of all the people who didn't make it to old age.

To The Next Generations is Bequeathed I...

"Get the hell out of the criminal conspiracies like the NAFTA, the WTO , the IMF, and other gangster rackets stripping our and the world's economies bare and killing tens of millions every year." writes Fait.

It is a special pleasure to read Fait, right off the top of the thread. He has that special ability to nail it.

I would only add, and get this country the hell out of fighting the US Empire cause. We have more important things to do, than be these folks shoe shine boy and dying for their imperialist causes.

Now, actually, I'm pre-baby boom. And I sure as hell do not especially blame "baby boomers" for the failures of capitalism. It's a much more complex issue than any one generation. This blaming baby boomerts game that has become so popular, mostly in media and State circles, is simply another obfuscation and deflection attempt to avode dealing with the real problem, which is the intrinsic, built in character and mechanics of the capitalist greed system.

What? You can watch the destruction of the economy by the ruling business class of the last 3-4 decades, their greed, graft, corruption and casino economics, and then blame baby boomers, the working class and/or the poor for the increasingly apparent criminal failings of the system?

Get real.

It was the generation of the 30s, especially its organized and militant working class, who, for the first time in the history of capitalism since the Industrial Revolution, were able to win decent standards of working conditions and wages for the working class and its families. It was the intention of that generation of class struggle, that their children, the baby boomers, should live a better and more secure life than they had themselves.

Continued next post...

To The Next Generations is Bequeathed 2...

Continuing from above...

If there was a failure of baby boomers, and I think there was, it was a failure to understand the history of their parent's and preceding generations' struggles to change and yes, even overthrow capitalism. Their failure was to fail to understand that this struggle is unrelenting, and had to continue to its logical conclusion. The postwar was reduced, understandably in many, many ways, to a party time and celebration of having survived the Great Depression and the second "Great Fucking War". Many hadn't.

And the consequence of that "relaxing of the guard" has been, over these same last 3-4 decade, since the late 1970s, that the system, Capitalism, from which the post war social contract was won in a great class struggle, has again turned on them, and is in the process of systematically stealing back all their social and economic gains.

Pay attention here ye generations since the boomers, don't let "the ruling class system" sidetrack you. The boomers are not the problem. The good times simply messed up their understanding. They thought it had always been that way, or that the system had given the good times standard of living out of the goodness of its heart. The problem is still capitalism. It is unfortunately left by circumstances and history for you to deal with. And you will... or not.In which latter case, you will do what never occurred to the boomers, and leave it to your children to resolve too, or worse.

coyoteman

[quote}Pay attention here ye generations since the boomers, don't let "the ruling class system" sidetrack you. The boomers are not the problem. The good times simply messed up their understanding. They thought it had always been that way, or that the system had given the good times standard of living out of the goodness of its heart. The problem is still capitalism. It is unfortunately left by circumstances and history for you to deal with. And you will... or not.In which latter case, you will do what never occurred to the boomers, and leave it to your children to resolve too, or worse.

So what's the alternative and remember you're dealing with human beings and all that entails.

The problem of uncontrolled

The problem of uncontrolled capitalism is that it is an ideology that's being taught in our universities, as have been Stalin's dialectics and Rosenberg's racial theories, as a "science", since the corporate mafia acquired control of many university departments, beginning with economics in the early 70s.

I have long been advocating the transfer of economics to the "Divinity" faculties, because economic theories are nothing more, or less, than pseudo religions, with the so called "economists" the Priesthood of the Money God, using fraudulent calculations, like "efficiency", GDP, to justify the crap forced on humaity.

The problem is not capitalism, per se, but its scriptural legalization, that now has become the biggest crime wave in human history, at the same mental level of the Holy Inquisition.

Without this legalization the whole criminal idiocy wouldn't have a hope in hell.

Ed Deak.

Human Beings and All That Entails I...

"So what's the alternative and remember you're dealing with human beings and all that entails." asks Snert.

Of course we are dealing with "human beings and all that entails". It is the supporters of uncontrolled capitalism who treat people, especially working class people, as commodities (wage slaves) and statistical entities (consumers etc) rather than flesh and blood, thinking, feeling beings. (And I understand that Fait and I have a somewhat difference of opinion re capitalism. Which doesn't mean that I don't still hold him in the highest regard.:-)

I'm a lower working class person myself, and I KNOW we are flesh and blood, real living, thinking and feeling human beings, not a theory, mere ideological concept, or a statistical "ledger entity."

In a word Snert, outside of where I think this is all heading, which in the direction of an eventual "transformation" of society, leading away from capitalism and towards a quite different "co-operative" rather than "competetive" social and economic order, the immediate battle cry has to become, in my view, "Demoocracy and More Democracy".

And when I say "democracy", I mean something which can include, but really needs to be much, much more than JUST a ruling class managed and scripted "party system". And that need is to put democracy in touch with where its real beating "power" heart needs to go-, IF there is going to be any real, substantive and lasting imporovement in the lives of ordinary people and our interface with nature. And that is, in addition to finally moving in the direction of a true "proportional representation" political system, that is more inclusive of a broader range of ideas and solutions to the problems of society, but also finally moving the concept of a true participatory democracy into the plants, enterprises, management and directorship councils of the economy as well.

Continued next post...

Human Beings and All That Entails 2...

Continuing from above...

It is time to bring the working class and its class organizations in from the cold, where they function now as but mere wage slaves, or tools, commodities and statistical non-beings that serve Capital.

You want to really deal with the issues of poverty, and say "inconveniencing" labour strikes, and all the other manifestations of the class, equity, and disproportional "power" arrangement problems within capitalism? Then this is the main direction, towards a democracy with a more real content, that society and the economy need to finally evolve.

And while some may say, and do, this will only save "capitalism", I'm prepared to take that risk. I think, over time, as the implications become better understood and percolate, it will more likely actually be the thin edge of the wedge in a more profound social, political and economic, revolutionary transformation of the great, unwieldy edifice of society and its economic relationship with nature.

Now, I can understand this being viuewed as "unrealistic" by ye supporters of the status quo, of courese. For you we really are only wage slave commodities and statistical creations. I, on the other hand see this concept of democracy as the only real, long term way out of the current morass/impasse in the social order. But then I see myself and my working class brothers, sisters and comrades as something quite different from you, Don't I? Eh? :-)

Coyote........I'm a skilled

Coyote........I'm a skilled cabinetmaker/woodworker and have worked in the dirtiest menial jobs in construction and farming in 4 countries, including where the foremen were expected to slap, or kick anybody for any reason.

Now remember that it was the working class who voted almost solid Reform here in the West, we have a perennial Reform MP here, elected in 4 union towns and an excellent, hard working NDP MLA lost last year by 88 votes in union towns.

Because if the unionists vote Reform, both federally and provincially, the "foreign investors will come and create jobs, jobs, jobs".

In short, I have seen and heard everything and nothing surprises me about the gullibility of the suckers.

Ed Deak.

The Alpha and Omega...

"Now remember that it was the working class who voted almost solid Reform here in the West, we have a perennial Reform MP here, elected in 4 union towns and an excellent, hard working NDP MLA lost last year by 88 votes in union towns." wrote Fait.

Indeed. No different a reality than large swaths of the working class in Germany supported the Nazis. And you are correct, of course. Segments of all class strata demonstrate the same gullibility, and no less the lower working class than skilled tradesmen, doctors or lawyers. It is a problem.

While the problem has many faces, of course, across all of society, the working class, it seems to me, is especially vulnerable for reasons of 1., education 2, vulnerability and always being one paycheque away from catastophe, and wanting to avoid conflict, or any other interruption that will further complicate their lives This latter which is really across all class strata as well, and 3., illusions, self created AND encouraged by a complex and powerful "propaganda" media and culture of mindless diversions (celebrities,hockey, porn etc.).

So, I do understand what you are saying, and don't disagree. But to me at least, which still doesn't mean they, the working class, doesn't have to, or is genetically or developmentally incapable of being won to such a course as I propose. Which isn't to say it's going to be easy. I've been at this most of my adult life, so I have some realistic idea. :-)

Though, I have always conceded that there may be another element in play here, in a way not generally understood or appreciated enough. This is the old alpha, beta and mega phenomena of all other social/pack animals. Which isn't to say amongst wolves or other pack animals for example, that beta and omega ranked animals will not rise up and overthrow an alpha in particular circumstances. Which they in fact do on occassion.

I've always suspected that the class rankings in
human society are a manifestation, or play a role, at some level, of this same phenomena amongst humans. Certainly, it is no less rare to get beta and omega humans :-), if I can be indulged for a moment, to rise up against their alphas. Though this too is not entirely unknown in our species. Though much depends on factors beyond our control, no friggin' doubt.

A Final Point...

Most folks, including working class folks, have been born since the end of WW2. And for the immediate period of the postwar, though to the 1970s, much of capitalism was in a "reconstruction of Europe" driven Prosperity Period, which much reshaped working class attitudes and thinking about capitalism, over what they had been. (And few things are entirely white or entirely black.)

Capitalism, under the influence of neo-liberal (neocon) economics, began to change itself back closer to something more resembling the capitalism of the Depression Era and earlier, pre-union, starting in the late 1970s. (It has been called Reganomics, Thatcherism etc., spreading virtually to the entire capitalist world.) Which turn around has rattled the working class world, making it not so much angry and rebellious, as it was in part intended, but more fearfully conservative and obedient of its masters.

In short, it is my view, the average working class understanding and thought processes are still being dragged along, kicking and screaming behind this changed reality within capitalism. They, and labour unions, are still trying to appease it.

How long this will continue, no one can know for sure. Certainly, I do not. Indeed, depending on the relative strength and ingenuity of Left and Right, the working class can still be won to either, in my view. Though the Left has been virtually destroyed in this country; certainly lacking in creativity and resolve. The working class could still, more likely at this point, probably more readily buy into fascism, than they could radical "progressive" social change.

Little is to be served for sure, by certainly such as myself with a revolutionary outlook, by clinging to illusions about anything. It could even be dangerous.

coyoteman

Just remember that some say "a camel is a horse designed by a committee". I think that the type of democracy that you envisage would at best morph into something dysfunctional and at worst fall apart into chaos.

Further, in order to get anything done somebody has to take charge and at that very point a hierarchy starts to evolve. Pretty soon you are right back to square one, all the alphas are on top again. Unfortunately that's the natural order of things hence my comment about dealing with human beings.

The system we operate under now guarantees a certain amount of churn amongst the alphas. It is not perfect by any means but does provide a degree of instability that should, in the long run, keep us from falling into the pit of total "slavery".

One's freedom is not only a status but also a state of mind. Not too many people are feeling oppressed these days.

The Ruling Class Influenced View 1...

"Just remember that some say "a camel is a horse designed by a committee". I think that the type of democracy that you envisage would at best morph into something dysfunctional and at worst fall apart into chaos." Snert.

Well, I think my first reaction to leap up from the page to your critique of my position is, that it is transpaerently an overly status quo ruling class influenced view of the world, that sees chaos in the notion of any seriuous extension of democracy, especially into th ecnomic realm. Whereas I, from the other end of the class spectrum I merely see the need to put in place, likely over a process of evolution, involving some trial and error, popular forms of democratic functioning that actually work.

Indeed, on the contrary, it is current capitalism that is fostering and creating a great gathering chaos, increasingly proving itself unworkable and unsuited to the times and its political, economic and environmental problems. Indeed, as it thrashes about like Harper, trying to control through prorogation of even limited democracy, the problems that neo-conservative view of the world and policy has created, it succeeds only in making matters worse.

And while yes, the working class is not inherently rebellious, in my view, preferring real stability no less than the business class, the working class are not, as you in effect suggest, entirely unaware, unthinking, unfeeling. emtirely lethargic beasts. And it is the extreme of current rightists that I have to thank for beginning this renewed process of arousing that side of them.

And like I have said before, even allowing for the Alpha, Beta and Omega phenomena in society, its consequences are not an absolute. It is not unknown that the leader, or more true in the more complex human pack, that leaders(s) can and do get driven out or otherwise dealt with. Indeed, in human society from the time of slaver, whole Alpha class social edifices have been overthrown and dramatically altered. That's my first observation.

Continued next post...

The Ruling Class Influenced View 2...

Continuing from above...

Secondly, I suspect you may be right, that regardless of what democratic changes are made in society and/or the economy, there will nonetheless be a tendency, as there is in capitalism, for new Alpha's to emerge. It may even be desirable so, at some level.

But the best cure, or manner of "controlling" this phenoena of "out of control, greed driven Alphas" within "human" society is through the further expansion of popular democracy, granted in a form that works, throughout society, including, indeed especially into the economy.

Now, no doubt that seems like an impending horror show to yourself and the ruling class of capitalism. Likewise did it to the slave owners and feudal aristocracies of old. Still, the reality is, that the growth, development and expansion of the ideas of populst democracy have not made society worse for the masses of citizens, but improved their lives and power across the centuries.

It is merely a matter that it is now time to further advance and evolve democratic ideas to include not only an overly formal and stage manaeged "parliamentary", first past the post democracy, but into other more inclusive forms, like proportional representation, and into the very economy itself.

This is not, as the status quo ruling class may understandably see it, a threat of chaos, but for the mass of society at leas6, a socially and economically enriching opportunity. And I mean in more ways than just the accumulation of yet more junk and diversionary material stuff. (Though doubtless there are many in current society who do need more material stuff, and more material security in the essentials of life.)

Freedom ????????? Millions

Freedom ?????????

Millions of people have died in WW2 fighting for "freedom". The nazis for "Freedom, Christianity and Western Civilization" the Soviets for "Freedom, democracy and the workers paradise".

Back in the mid 50s my starting wage as a cabinetmaker's apprentice was .75 cents an hour, at the age of 28, my wife was making about the same in various odd jobs. Our rent was $35/mo. our foodbill under $20/wk. and we had a small Hillman car. Cigarettes, .37 cents, gallon of gas . 27 cents, hot dog .25, hamburger .50 cents and a union carpenter was making $2.10/hr. One breadwinner per family was enough. Kids didn't go home to an empty house from school.

We bought our first house in Vancouver in 1966 for $500 down, and $45/mo. There were no foodbanks, no homelessness.

Are things better now? Have wages and incomes risen with the 1,000 % inflation since the mid 70s? If so, minimum wage should be around $40-50/hr. But we're now living in a "globally competitive society" that can't allow anything so inefficient.

Of course, things have vastly improved for some.

Executives who were making then $25 to 50,000/yr. which should be about $250 to 500,000 now, are now stealing tens of millions from the public and people put up with it in awe of their wealth creating skills and our politicians strings of directorships after they quit, or are kicked out.

In the bright imagination of our so called "economists", like those employed by the corporate advertising agency called the Fraser Inst., everybody should be in 2-3 highly competitive, minimum, wage part time jobs, send their children to private schools, be upwardly mobile with their homes and save enough for retirement, eliminating the need government pensions.

The 2 world wars and the death camps of Stalin, Hitler and Mao have killed approx, 110- 120 million in about 70 years.

Our globally competitive, wealth creating neoclassical market capitalism kills the same number in 4 years, with starvation, bad waters and easily preventable sicknesses.

In short, the numbers of "economic efficiency" have really improved. The question is: Which way?

Ed Deak.

Ed

Most of those that would be homeless today were all in mental institutions. The DTES was the DTES back then as well so there may not have been foodbanks but there were soup kitchens.

Only by virtue of the fact that the same "globally competitive, wealth creating neoclassical market capitalists" have managed to extend the life spans of a significant portion of the planets population. That and the improvements in health care that have gone along with them have lead to increased pressure on food supplies which have also been boosted significantly, btw. Obviously not enough to eradicate starvation but unfortunately people have always starved.

The problem, Ed, has absolutely nothing to do with economics. It is very simply that we have developed our abilities to the point that we are too good at what we do.

We now have the ability, over a relatively short span of time, to literally deplete the oceans of fish and the forests of trees with very few people involved in either endeavour.

Populations the world over have exploded and need to be fed. Modern medicine has probably had just as much effect on this as your 'neoclassical market capitalists'.

You can complain about them all you want but they are the reason Canada is as empty as it is and it would be real nice to keep it that way. There have been some messes made along the way, sure but in the long run very little permanent damage has been done to the country. Some things do require immediate attention and that should be our focus now.

Just making sure we don't screw up in the future would go a long way to making this country a better place to live. We don't have to overthrow or toss out anyone as some might imply.

coyoteman

I'm still trying to figure out where you get this 'working class', 'ruling class' conflict from. In Canada it is an established fact that if one wishes to put the effort into improving their lot in life they can go about it in almost any field they chose. There is absolutely nothing stopping anyone with any degree of ability from moving from a lower level in society to the next one or for that matter right to the top. As always luck plays a certain role in this but that is something we all have to contend with.

Just to reiterate what I said, the retiring CEO for one of the largest corporations in Canada started at the bottom. I don't recall seeing anything in his resume about silver spoons.

You must deal with a far different working class than I have because in my world most of the people seem to realize that for the most part they are masters of their own destiny. Most wish to just do their jobs and go home. Very few wish to add increased responsibilities to their workloads. Of those that do most remember where they came from. Only a few forget and turn into assholes.

In Canada your "working class," which BTW encompasses most of us, performs their duties under what is called a master / servant relationship. I don't like the sound of it any more than you probably do and would like to see it changed. One has to be really careful what one wishes for though because several large and well know corporations have come up with their version of a change which is not for the best. They now call their employees 'associates'.

There has to be a balance in society and it's my belief that if you try shift that balance too much one way or the other then there is an increased risk of instability. It's OK to rock the boat but only gently.

The vast majority of the

The vast majority of the deaths by starving etc. are little children. Some 30 million per year by UN figures. Many of whose parents have been thrown off their lands by "foreign investors" and their local pimps, where they could at least feed themselves somehow, now starving in cardboard city slums.

Since the criminal conspiracy called NAFTA, 70% of Mexicans are below the poverty levels on $2-3. per day. Millions of farmers have been forced off their lands by the agribiz corporate mafia, setting up huge kolkhozes, waiting for Alaskan and Canadian waters for irrigation, our Reform party governments would only be to pleased to provide

When the allegedly CIA installed Papa Doc of Haiti opened up the borders for heavily subsidized imports of US rice etc. it ruined the food self sufficiency of the country and the once 50,000 population of Port-au-Prince blossomed now to 3 million .

The EU is colonizing the East European countries. It is estimated that 3 million Polish farmers will be forced off their lands by the Western corporate mafia, something not even the communists could accomplish.

My family have been instrumental in kicking the communists out of Hungary in 1919. My uncle spent 15 years in communist jails, I was sentenced to 10 years in the gulags, but they didn't catch me, but have a 45 years record fighting communism with guns and words. Now intent to spend the rest of my life fighting their collectivizer brothers under the skin, called capitalism.

And believe me friend Snert, I'm an old pro fighting all forms of dictatorships and their sheepbrained amateur propagandists.

Ed Deak.

A state of denial

Snert, if you don't see class division in the world around you, you are in a state of denial. We have a tiny minority that own and control the societies of the world and the rest of us work for them and every 4 years or so get to choose which of their tweedle dum and tweedle dee parties to rule ovedr us...

The world's food supplies

The world's food supplies are now controlled by about 3-4 mega corporations, who call themselves "private enterprise".

They're trying to take over the Canadian grain boards with the help of our Reform Party hacks, like Harper.

The Canadian beef industry is now controlled by
one US based corporation, one of the 3-4 above, who are fixing prices and ruining Canadian ranchers by the hundreds, while raising prices in the supermarkets they also control.

Thanks to their criminal actions, Canada is now an importer of beef and other food supplies, where we could not only be self sufficient, but used to be major exporters with the real private enterpriser farmers and ranchers supplying the products.

I'll never forget the words of the then ambassador of and impoverished African country to Taiwan on one of the World Bank economic forums I was on 10 or so years ago :" We've always been poor, but always had something. Now we have nothing !"

Thanks to the collectivizing efforts of the "competitive capitalist collectivizers.

Something Stalin couldn't even have dreamed of and must be rolling in his grave. He tried it with bayonets, these crooks are succeeding with the perceived power of imaginary capital "created" from the air.

Some "free" enterprise.

Ed Deak

Ed

I'm not disagreeing with you totally but this map seems to paint a slightly different picture than the one you are using

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Percentage_population_undernourished_world_map.PNG

It seems that areas of persistent drought and tribal warfare are the ones that are most likely to have the higher numbers of malnourished people.

I'm pretty sure that there may be a few 'neoclassical market capitalists' involved in some of these areas but people do have a tendency to be their own worst enemies a lot of the time.

Yes, people are definitely

Yes, people are definitely their own worst enemies, by always permitting crooks to rule them, and I have seen them under every goddamn flag and colour.

The old communist cadre are now the biggest capitalists in Russia, with the most villas and yachts on the Mediterranian.

Here, our biggest capitalists are happily rolling around in bed with their Chinese communist brethren, destroying the lives of their own peoples.

And people put up with crooks out to dictate them because they're too lazy and stupid to stand up against them

History shows that democracies are not thrown over by barbarians, but self destruct, because people are too lazy to think and invite the barbarians to rule over them.

Used to be called "conquests" and "colonization", now called "globalization".

I watched once an interview with the foreign minister of an African country, where thousands have been thrown off their lands to make room for the pineapple plantations of United Fruit. He was asked whether it bothered him that the company takes 94% of the benefits out of the country ? He replied :"I'm not interested in how much they take out, only in what they leave here"

And this is the picture also of our own political geniuses, who are happy to sell of this country under the fraud of "resource economy", while flooding us with the garbage from the Asian slave labour factories of our own "important businessmen" jerks, now meeting and conspiring in Davos on how to steal more. .

Ed Deak.

anarcho

I'm not the one in denial. If you can't see that the world will never function any differently to one degree or another then 'tis you, sir that is in denial. Unless of course we transform into energy beings with all sorts of strange powers and call ourselves "Q". Oh, seems to me even they had their differences.

More right-wing propaganda from Snert

Snert, your view that everything must stay the same is the oldest form of propaganda in existence. Furthermore, Coyoteman, Fiat Lux, nor any other progressive people here think we can establish a utopia - we have all lived too long for fictions. What we want is a better situation for humanity, not the straw man of perfection. We want a society that is more democratic, more humane. For thousands of years chattel slavery was thought natural. 200 years ago the apologists for the status quo were stating that the level of democracy we have now was an impossible fantasy. The idea that the average person could and ought to live well and have some kind of life outside of bone-grinding servitude was also dismissed. And on and on...

Utopia and Real History...

"For thousands of years chattel slavery was thought natural. 200 years ago the apologists for the status quo were stating that the level of democracy we have now was an impossible fantasy. The idea that the average person could and ought to live well and have some kind of life outside of bone-grinding servitude was also dismissed. And on and on..." Anarcho

Brief, but to the end of a point well made, Anarcho.

To these extreme rightists, all progress, certainly technological, that serves the ends of capitalism is possible. They have no trouble recognizing and conceding evolutionary, even "revolutionary breakthrough" progress at this level.

But when it comes to human and social progress that improves the material and quality of life of ordinary working class citizens, that aspect of life is fixed, frozen in time and unchangeable from here, forward. The masses must content themselves with what is their lot and the way it is today. The social and human present is immutable, except perhaps as political platitudes at a phony election time.

That is the classic perspective of the ruling class status quo of any time, across all recorded time. But it is a view that does not stand up to critical scrutiny, but is reduced to a rag wrapped shell like the mummies of the royal Pharaonic families of Egypt, or the bare bones in the tombs of the Great God Mayan Kings, or even Louis XIV, or Charles I and II of more recent history.

This too shall pass however, not of its own accord of course, but because the great mass of people of this Order shall too eventually weary of their condition like the street and peasant masses of Revolutionary France, or even more recently, Czarist Russia. Eventually, even if we despair of them now, they will do whatever is necessary to move the quality of their lives forward again. (Capitalism even, was an improvement over the Feudalism that preceded it, from the perspective of the mass of humanity, as unsatisfactory as it too has become in our time. Which is how real history moves forward.)

The route of history is a tortured one, no bloody doubt. Utopia it ain't, nor likely will ever be entirely. And nobody understands this better than we serious revolutionaries, who always work the margins of society until we are eventally needed again, to be the midwives of the next birthing. So long as the changes improve further the lives of the mass of humanity, and our relationship with the natural world, as muddy as that gets sometimes.

Everything is subject to constant change, so long as the universe shall continue. Nothing stands permanently still,,, even human relations.

Everything is subject to constant change ...

“[T]he Eubie Blake economy, in which we take better care of ourselves because we really are going to live a long time”, seems to ignore some fairly significant variables which, to save space, could be loosely categorized as the earth’s carrying capacity.

In studies that look at population dynamics, an aging population is one that isn’t sustainable: Death rates are higher than recruitment rates, and the population is heading for a crash.

This fact isn’t lost on those folks that are looking down the road and wondering what has to be done to keep (their) economies alive. The simplest method of countering this trend, and the one most are aware of, is to increase the immigration rate … preferably favouring those that are young, heatlthy and wealthy.

But increasing the rate of immigration, regardless of policy, is, at best, a temporary fix. The reason it’s temporary is best illustrated by taking a look at what are, measurably, negative trends in carrying capacity variables.

It’s probably safe to say that all of the natural resources that human population growth demands, and our desire to equitably share these resources, have peaked, or nearly peaked. The production of food and energy is reaching the upper limit of that demand.

No doubt technological change will continue, in an effort to counter dwindling supplies, and to take the pressure off the requirement to start dealing with the fact that the upward trend in human demand will soon cross the downward trend in energy and resouce supply.

However, once the trend lines cross it really won’t matter whether industries and workers pay higher taxes. Regardless of the investment in future wellbeing, putting tax money away for a rainy day will not guarantee needed care will be there down the road.

The same goes for the thinking that wants to settle the juxtaposition between capitalism and democracy. Although making capitalism more democratic (if that’s possible), and regulating financial institutions will have obvious benefits for some, it’s unlikely that it would eliminate conflict.

The reason these interventions won’t reduce conflict, generational or otherwise, is because we are not only ignoring the fact we are approaching carrying capacity, we are ignoring the fact carrying capacity is dynamic: it’s not a fixed quantity, and it’s trend line is also downward. Increasing conflict is the obvious outcome.