Another reason why no one will even open a hot dog stand in Kitimat. Alcan took on the original risk of the original development after the Government of the day declined to do so. If it weren't for this original development, Kitimat would not exist- No Alcan, No Methanex, No Eurocan, No pipelines, nothing but bush and snow. Tlak about biting the hand that feeds you. Rick "Woe is Me" and his band of idiots won't be happy unless they chase away 2B$ worth of investment in secure, high paying, long term jobs. I guess my kids will have to stay in Alberta to learn a trade after all.

Steve, chill out man. It seems you applaud government givaways to private businesses.

Are you Mr. Alcan? Are you a major shareholder?

As a 5th generation BC type, I applaud the decision. If you want to send your kids to Alberta, do, please, so to leave more education money for my kids!

I hear Alcan is being pretty critical of this decision.

One wonders if we've heard the last of it.

I'm surprised the BC Utility Commission turned it down. Perhaps they didn't get Campbell's memo.

I'm sure they'll fix it up in the new year as the sell-off of all our power generation capacity goes ahead.

Grumpy- unfortunatly, I've already had to send them away because of the lack of real jobs in Northwest BC. The proposed developments in Kitimat were their last best chance to stay home and get decent jobs. I'm a 4th Gen myself and have no Alcan shares other than through my RRSP.
How can this be construed as a gov't handout after Alcan took all the risks and built the dam and the town of Kitimat in the first place? The Government of the day chose not to due to the enormous risks involved. So what kind of message do we send to potential future investors? Build it and we'll screw you later? This province was built by big men with big dreams-now it seems we are ruled by bureaucrats and lawyers with no imagination. If you lived in an area with 20% plus unemployment and someone wanted to invest 2 Billion dollars and provide stable, long term, high paying jobs, how would you feel?

Of couse, how much can you trust a story that starts like this

"A tiny town in Northern B.C. has become a big little pain in the ass for the B.C. Liberals. Kitimat is a company town about 200 km inland from Prince Rupert. It was in the news again this week when a provincial regulator quashed a power sale agreement"

Check your map Richard- Kitimat is ON the ocean and south of Rupert-not 200 km inland. It also has a lot of other employers so doesn't really qualify as a tiny company town either. Is 10K plus people a tiny town? Topley, Granisle and Telkwa are tiny.
Your lack of facts bring the accuracy of the rest of your article into question

steveoverhere seems to be missing much of the point here.
No guaranteed jobs
Garanteed high payments per KWH
All on the backs of BC ratepayers.
No cost and most likely gagantuan profits for Alcan
And the way things are going today the smelter would probably be closed anyway so they can reap even more profits.

steveoverhere = its all about the money

Once one gets beyond the namecalling, there are a few points that deserve notice.

1. The water behind the electric power is worth far more today than it was when the original Alcan agreement was signed. This fact has implications for how badly Alcan wishes to sell electricity into a market of energy shortage. It also has implications for how highly the people of BC should value it.

2. Few would argue that there is risk in industrial development. However, there seems to be plenty of demand for aluminum, and even if wages here are higher than in China, the electricity is very cheap (proportionally much cheaper than the energy advantage would have been 50 years ago when Alcan found it advantageous to take smelt with it).

3. Alcan owes nothing to the Northwest apart from its legal obligations. Some of its obligations are to its shareholders and debt holders, namely, to get the highest return possible on their invested money. Its other obligations are a matter of dispute; the lawsuit that the city of Kitimat has brought against Alcan, presumably for breach of the original agreement referred to in the article, has yet to be settled. The city officials in Kitimat are elected to pursue the interests of the municipality; Alcan's board of directors select corporate policy in the interests of its owners. It's no surprise that these interests are not identical.

4. The government of BC is meant to govern in the public interest, and the BCUC is an arms-length adjunct of government that regulates utilities in the public interest. The broad and often conflicting private interests that make up the "public interest" require some measures of compromise in order to be adequately defined so that decisions such as the recent BCUC decision can be made. The narrow interests of Kitimat citizens or of Alcan shareholders may have to give way to broader considerations of getting a reasonable deal for the whole citizenry of BC. (Isn't that why the Liberals decided to buy their new ferry overseas--to get the best deal for BC taxpayers?)

As with most such disputes, lack of current resolution will require greater efforts by all concerned. I would be surprised if Alcan decided to walk away from its liquid cash cow of Kemano power. And surely the BCUC will not approve a sweetheart deal that screws the people of BC. There is obviously more to come.

Steveverywhere:

I think you're being just a tad uneducated and slow here in terms of how much Alcan actually needs to expand, and I'm being polite.

http://www.tsx.com/HttpController?GetPage=DetailedQuotePage&SelectedSymbol=AL&RowNumber=1&DetailedView=DetailedPrices&Market=T&QuoteSymbol_1=AL&QuoteSymbol_2=&QuoteSymbol_3=&QuoteSymbol_4=&QuoteSymbol_5=&QuoteSymbol_6=&QuoteSymbol_7=&QuoteSymbol_8=&QuoteSymbol_9=&QuoteSymbol_10=&QuoteSymbol_11=&QuoteSymbol_12=&Language=en

Alcan isn't a small corp and has been generating profits for years. If this longwinded link doesn't work, a simple AL symbol on tsx.com will reveal a near 20 billion dollar market cap with a P/E ratio of under 18.2, indicating they made a paultry billion plus dollars after taxes last year. I think they can afford to spend... don't you?

Or must our provincial government just give them money hand over fist to the tune of 71$ per kilowatt hour... by the way, do you know how much that is? Any idea how many kilowatts per day the average house of 4 consumes? In fact, do you have any idea how much BC Hyrdo charges for a kilowatt of power to your own home?

http://www.bchydro.com/policies/rates/rates757.html

Good discussion, with good points on all sides.

I think most of us in B.C are familiar with the story of Kitimat and its origins. In the late 1990's we toured the town and went on an Alcan tour. Recall the company tourguide literally stating that this was a job -for -life, no-one had been laid off...etc etc. Then in the mid 1990's the KCP became a huge issue, and Rafe had this KCP topic for what seemed like 1/2 his air time.

The key of course is C-H-E-A-P power, given that the raw bauxite ore is shipped into Kitimat for processing. I highly doubt Alcan would pack up and leave, and lose access to the cheap power, as my view is that energy is simply going to get more expensive globally.

I suppose many of us thought this latest deal was actually a DONE deal...this BCUC decision sort of came out of the blue. This goes to show a good neutral regulatory/adjudication body like the BCUC is crucial, though I am a bit surpised that such a deal is first negotiated that may very likely be turned down by a regulatory body.

The KCP project clearly showed, (at least via Rafe's shows), that Alcan
projected more money in selling power than producing aluminum. Thats' fine, that's what a good business should do,...but it involves a "crucial Crown asset" ie water.

Personally, I think BC can cut a better deal in the Citizens' best interests AND a Win - Win for both sides without Alcan leaving town. Let's start with it is OUR(ie B.C Citizens') water, the raw resource that makes the REST possible.

If , for some reason, Alcan finds that aluminum production is no longer viable/profitable, my view is that BC Hydro should "do a WAC Bennett " and purchase all the hydro-electric generating capacity from Alcan, and hence make it a Public Asset. Failing that, simply negotiate a purchase of power at a rate on par with BC Hydro's own wholesale prices, as Alcan does not own the grid, correct?

You obviously haven't been following developments in the Hydro file. That is no longer an option - all Hydro can do under the current crop of political masters is buy power NOT GENERATE IT - its generation capacity is capped and it can't undertake any new sources itself. THat's lest up to the premier's friends after they've bought up all the water leases for a song.

So G West

...given what you say , why didn't this deal simply slide like shite through a goose ?

G West:

What happened... you not pay your Hydro -bill ?

Freudian slip perhaps? This certainly sums up the current state of the Nechako.

Alcan wanted to dredge Tatsha narrows a few years ago to increase their access to more water so they could continue to sell power during low water years. there has also been talk about completing the cold water release at Kenny dam, that would allow them to meet the temperature requirements for the Nechako River salmon. Another wrinkle there is the white sturgeon population of the Nechako.

Alcan could upgrade the smelter, which would reduce energy consumption and allow them to maintain their current energy agreement with a longer payback period than this deal would have given them. Can’t say I feel sorry for Alcan, this proposal is just greedy.

I would have to agree with Colin, this is just another disgusting case of corporate greed.

Alcan announced several months ago the construction of a new smelter in Kitimat. The new smelter would replace old technology and would allow them to significantly reduce the workforce and produce aluminum more efficiently.

The new smelter would generate more profits than the old one as the payroll would be decreased and they would be able to sell even more excess power due to the higher efficiency of the new smelter.

The posters above are correct, this is not the end of this story. Gordie will step in and devise a scheme to allow Alcan to make obsence profits from our natural resource.

To Steve, yes Alcan took a risk to develop this smelter, but they more than made their money back and have been screwing the people of Kitimat and this province since the 90's when they started to reduce production at the smelter and started selling power for profit instead of using it for productiion, as per the original intent. Water is our resource, it doesn't belong to some bloody corporation, unless we let them.

From today's NP...

"...Alcan, the B.C. government, and B.C. Hydro all claim that Alcan owns all the electric power produced by the giant Kemano station. In the words of the B.C. government filing, "Electricity is property. It is a fundamental attribute of property that its owner [Alcan] can sell or dispose of property in any way he/she wishes. Hence, Alcan needs no authorization from the province in order to be able to sell electricity it produces."

The idea that Alcan owns the power rights from waters flowing through Kemano is alien to people who have come to think that water is a public resource that must at all times be subject to major political involvement. If Alcan does indeed own the rights, then the case should not go far. A court decision is expected soon. A ruling against Alcan could kill Kitimat expansion.

Alcan, it must be said, is no stranger to government subsidies. As a world class consumer of energy, it scours the world in search of government-backed energy deals and industrial aid. In Kitimat, however, the company appears to have received more than its fair share of political wrangling. In 1995, Premier Mike Harcourt arbitrarily killed an earlier attempt by the company to expand in the area, after the company had spent $500-million.

In the new Kitimat case, Alcan appears as a private-sector company with property rights mired in a province-wide system of government-owned utilities, regulators, politicians and others who have no great interest in rights and an overwhelming wish to play politics with economic development.

It's probably not quite a death wish. If Alcan leaves Kitimat, shuts down the smelter and sells the power, the Kitimat area appears to be a great tourist destination. If that's what they want, that is what they might get."

Anyone in BC who still thinks that obviously isn't aware of the current government plans to sell/lease to PRIVATE companies all of the remaining generation capacity of British Columbia's Rivers and the sweetheart pricing deal that goes along with such arrangements relative to the buy-back of any eventual hydro produced on those 'public' waters.

Of course Campbell will find a way to over-ride a Utilities Commission that hasn't got the message about the province's future.

G West

you've taken that quote out of context by omitting some words in the sentence. On top of that, you've missed the point.

Steveoverhere found all the relevant holes in the TYEE story...the rest is bafflegab.

YES, it's all about the money. Alcan is in business to make money, otherwise it would die - so is BC Hydro.

Alcan made a lot of money last year due to high Aluminum prices - doesn't happen every year.

Maybe Alcan is getting its just desserts with all the interference. Maybe that's the price they have to pay for being a beneficiary of government welfare.

As the saying goes, "there are no atheists in foxholes, nor conservatives when the subsidies get handed out".

Brian Tobin and Danny Williams haven't done Newfoundlanders any service by delaying projects such as Voisey's Bay. There is such thing as an opportunity cost, you know.

neocon
I have not. Are you aware of the way BC Hydro has been split up? And what the various parts are / are not still permitted to do?

BCHYdro was a public utility - a monopoly providing a service at as close to cost as possible using public resources to do that.

This government, sadly, is changing those terms.

Time for neocons to wake up.

You can start with this, it's long so it'll take a few posts:
Hydro – Peter Dimitrov
Tricked and Treated: The Case of Modern Day Piracy involving British Columbia hydroelectricity and water

© Peter Dimitrov, October 27, 2006/ bcpolitics.ca

Folks, this is an article I would rather not write. Indeed I would rather enjoy Halloween, the trick-n’ treating, attending parties, the joking around, and watching the fireworks that accompanies this time of year. But it is not to be. The story that unfolds herein ought to be sufficient to ‘scare your socks off’, to cause you to demand answers, leap in to action. If you have any concern for the welfare of your children and grandchildren – please read this, pass it around, get very active.

Here then, in short, is the ‘skinny’ on what is happening with our rivers and your electricity!

1. Campbell soup & company (hereinafter the “Pirates”) have split up what was once an integrated BC Hydro company, a company that produced electricity, transported it over its own power transmission lines, and then sold it to us residential, business and industrial consumers at the fairest price in the land.

2. A good part of BC Hydro was sold by the Pirates to Accenture (enough said about that which you can Google yourself), which now operates in British Columbia, although strangely you won’t see their names on the hydro service trucks.

3. The Transmission resources were ‘split away’ from the Crown corporation to form a separate Transmission Company, the BC Transmission Corporation.

4. Under the BC Energy Plan, BC Hydro is no longer permitted to build/construct new hydro-electric generating facilities, it has been compelled to purchase our future electrical supply from “Independent Power Producers” (IPPs)

5. According to the BC Hydro web site there are presently 14 different IPP hydro projects on various river/creek systems in British Columbia, still under construction, some near completion.

6. The price which these IPPs pay government for a “small” water license is $5,000, for a term of 40 years, renewable for another 40 years, but likely renewable in perpetuity. In addition to the water license to have water reserved to produce hydroelectricity, they get some land along the site to build the powerhouse,etc.

7. Once an Energy Purchase agreement is signed between BC Hydro and an IPP, the IPP then waltzes to the bank and with that secure contract is able to negotiate very favourable lending rates from the bank to build the project.

8. Unlike oil & gas, where royalty rates are established relative to the market price of those commodities, the royalty rates to be received by the Province from the water licenses granted are not tied into the potential market price that will be paid to the IPP from the sales of the hydroelectricity.

9. A $5, 000 water license (for a small hydro project) will potentially generate between $10- $15 million/year in revenue for the IPP, and while there are some minor fees to be paid annually ($200/year ) by the IPP, the province will see a return of only 4-5% of the $10-$15 million. For a water license costing $10,000, much larger IPP projects can be built, where the payoff per year for the IPP could be $100 million plus/year, and yet due to low royalty rates the Province will only see 4-5% of that $100 plus million.

10. Up until now, the average price per gigawatt (million watts) that BC Hydro pays for electricity is about $1.08 per Megawatt hour, which cost is passed on to you the consumer.

11. BC Hydro has signed ‘energy purchase agreements’ with the IPPs listed on its website, which require BC Hydro to pay them approximately, $16 billion dollars for that electricity. The average cost to BC Hydro for that power will be $87.00 per megawatt hour. These contracts will kick in during the 2009/2010 and are payable each year to 2051. Guess who will be paying for that? From $1.08/gigawatt hour to $87/gigwatt hour is an astronomical increase –guess who will reap the profits from those energy purchase agreements – if you guess IPP’s and the banks (the pigs at the trough) you guessed right.

12. It gets worse, the scenario exists, that several, if not all of the IPP’s will ‘flip’ their water license and hydro project to a larger energy company, likely American, (the “mega pigs”) and voila, us, lambs for the slaughter will have lost control of our new ‘green’ energy, and the ‘water’ in our rivers/creeks to Uncle Sam forever – under NAFTA.

13. The IPP’s, or their new American owners, will want to export as much as that power to USA, as likely the market price is higher, and if we can’t pony up the cash or refuse to, well we can just sit coldly in the dark like mushrooms.

14. Then there is Bill 30. Once upon a time municipalities, and regional districts in rural BC, had the zoning authority over rivers/creeks in their territory. They had the power to deny an IPPs application to build a hydro project. Well folks that is gone. Witness, the Ashlu Creek IPP project in the Squamish area now being constructed by Ledcor Power Inc.

15. Prior to Bill 30, passed by the Pirates (soup & co.), the duly elected folks up in the Squamish area, which included the mayor of Whistler, twice denied Ledcor Power’s zoning application. What happened next, is speculative, but “words must have gotten back to El Pirates that the ‘lambs for the slaughter’ where acting uppity out in the country and the lambs needed to be herded in, hence – dutifully, we have Bill 30.

16. Indeed, Bill 30 takes away all powers that municipalities and regional districts had to decide zoning matters respecting IPP hydropower products.

There you have it, a true to life Halloween story of how El Pirates ‘treated’ their pigs at the Victoria animal farm, and once again ‘tricked’ the ‘lambs for the slaughter’.

As long as there is something to grab here in our fair province, there will be entrepreneurial types who will weigh in during elections, in order to see a government in place, which will get as little in their way as possible. Such a government will always consist of the same class of people. The great mystery to me is, since, by the nature of he beast, they must be in minority, why do they keep getting their kind elected? Are there too many people naively thinking, that when it rains on the priest, it will dribble on the deacon, i.e. believeing the myth of the trickle down effect? Good luck!

Praise God,
The tiny little town of 11,000 needs all our prayer and support, David vs Goliath.

May the house of cards fall as surely as the dealer was dealing from the bottom of the deck.

David and Goliath? hardly so. Every sports team of every type and age, every arts display, ballet tour, workshop, meeting, Christmas drive, full brained, half brained and half baked idea, plan of any type goes straight to ALcan (or as he's know hereabouts, Uncle Al)for money,funding and support. Alcan is a good, responsible corporate citizen to Kitimat, Terrace and indeed to the entire Northwest. Are they in business to make money? You bet. Is profit a dirty word? Only to a few who don't get how it works. Alcan was given water rights in exchange for the development (and employment) of a huge tract of what was an undeveloped country. As long as the power was used to create jobs and investment " in the vicinity' of the smelter. The rub is, according to Woe is Me and his cohorts, this means "in Kitimat" end of story. To the rest of Northern BC, who do not support Kitimats legal wrangling, this means jobs and development in Terrace, Rupert, Hazelton Smithers and indeed all the way to Prince George. It is Northern BC's answer to the Alberta Advantage. This has less to do with power and more to do with what Kitimat sees as its divine right to Alcans money, investments and power.
Alcan created Kitimat and Kemano and could surely take away what it gave. Be careful what you ask for- you might get it.

Steveoverhere:
Guess the question is, in the end, whether - and the BC Utility Commission found in the negative - this particular deal was in the public interest.

That's the trouble with independent commissions, sometimes they actually act independently. Surprise, surprise.

No doubt, the decision will be appealed and you'll get your way. But it won’t be providing a lot of local jobs mind.
Corporations serve their shareholders. Those shareholders have done very nicely from Alcan's original investment $500 million investment in British Columbia. From everything I've read, their plans for modernization and expansion will actually reduce local employment in Kitimat. Further, there's some doubt that Alcan has a very carefully thought-out business plan anyway. Maybe the Utilities Commission actually got it right.

Nevertheless, I don't think there's any doubt Campbell will find a way to reverse this decision. It doesn't fit the Premier's worldview to actually have BC Hydro in the Hydro business any more - he'd much rather it was his friends making the profits. I wager Alcan’s legal eagles are busy drafting the appeal right now.

Alcan hasn't really given any one anything - it's simply taken advantage of what were public resources and turned a healthy profit into the bargain.

OK that statement tells me all I need to know about you Steve.
Alcan has never affectionately been known as anything! there is not about Alcan that incurs affection.
In fact the citizens have felt used and manipulated since the very beginning!
How many referendums have Alcan forced through about flouridation of the municipal water(so that they could blame the water supply when/if the leakage from the plant caused problems?)
From day one every decison, even minor ones, needed approval from Montreal making the local management looks inept.
This venture has indeed been about corporate greed that had to do with money and not about the employees, the citizens or even about efficiency.
Some Swedish Nazi and old WC Bennett cooked up that deal, where huge tracts of land was offered as a bribe so that old Wacky could boast about yet one more mega-project.
This was never about the people of BC, only money and ego's!
The jobs that Steve is talking about were mostly in the potlines where the heat, smoke and gas would squeeze your lungs and make you gasp for air!
I should know having worked on repairing the overhead cranes in up to 140 degrees heat, breathing sickening gas/smoke that filled my gasmask with blood from my nostrils.
One entrepenurical crew took it upon themselves to install a 6' fan in the gable-end to make the job endurable (some jobs kept us up there for 16 hours)
but the powers that be in Montreal demanded the fan come down, because it caused a heatloss!
In other words the empolyees were less important, than saving a few cents!
so please quit talking about "good jobs", check how long the men working the pots live on the average, just look at their complexion and you know it takes its toll!

Avg annual salary 75,000k year-most higher- free clothing and protective equipment (can't help it if some idiots cut holes in their masks so they can smoke). Cool rooms, frequent manadatory work breaks in high temp areas. A union so corrupt it makes the teamsters look like Santa Claus, the lowest productivity per employee in the industrialized world, the hight amount of money in savings accounts per capita in Canada. Terrace is only 36 miles away-wanna guess why Alcan won't hire any 3rd gens (or some 2nd gens) from Kitimat? Maybe they should move the smelter there and find a decent workforce

I believe we are missing the mark here. gordo is selling out the people. Yes steve, you and me. We will be raped by the new higher rates. I really have a concern with this campbell fellow, cause of his drug related (yes booze is a drug) activites. I'm sure they sort of haze over the details in his mind. A sick man. Not a leader, but a user.

The Alcan situation and the larger issue of the breakup of BC Hydro, and the selloff of BC's rivers has massive future repercussions for the people and industries of BC. We are giving away our competitive advantage, of low power rates, to the richest 1% of society. Instead of all the people of BC having the advantage of low power rates and all the associated benefits. We will pay 10 times the price and then more as the worlds energy supplies deplete. Instead of us getting the advantage of all our hydro assets, massive profits will go south and we will pay insane electricity rates, for our resource!
If the people of BC were truly informed by the media as to the ramifications of what Gordon Campbell is doing there would be a revolt overnight.
We are really, really, really getting shafted here and eventually this sellout will clearly expose Gordon Campbell as an enemy to 99% BC's citizens. This is grand theft and when the people truly understand what has happened they will weep, because there is no return.

steveoverhere
That has to be absolute garbage steve and you know it. If the situation were as bad as you describe ALCAN would have pulled out years ago and taken advantage of the hydro rates in Quebec. Cry me a river.

I have a feeling someone from Kitimat will take that little gem up with you too.

It's not something I have any knowledge of, but before I accepted that kind of a statement I'd want more than your testimony as evidence - you're clearly busy grinding an axe of your own.

Once more you prove that you have no grasp about what a "good job" is.
I spent about 6 months on that particular job mentioned, wading through inch deep dust on the crane-rails 40 feet above the floor!(yes no safety-railing either).
Breathing polluted, poisenous air and suffering 140 degrees heat, so quit telling me about people cutting holes in masks in order to grab a smoke, because the only concern anyone would have was to get a breath of fresh air!
Besides the masks were massive heavy monsters nobody could cut into.
Endless safety issues were dealt with at so-called safety meetings where officials would take note as to who the "trouble-makers" were.
So, once again Alcan is not a good corporate citizen despite the recent TV ads!
Considering the fortune Alcan makes and and the location, a decent salary is the only way to attract employees, that is the only reason for the 75K average.
Just like Gold River, the main advantage Kitimat has is the fact that they are deep-sea-ports!
Just like Kitimat that fact was taken advantage of by a giant corporation in Gold River and once again strictly for its own greed!
Gold River could not make its "benefactor" stay and protect jobs, and since that firm owned the access to the port no other industry ever developed there. The rest is history: cry me a river about the lost jobs, we relocate elsewhere in order to save the shareholders some money.
Heaven forbid that ordinary people should acquire a good standard of living, when there are other areas begging to be used.
yep, this is free enterprise! and you fools voted for it!

Hey Grumpy:

How is this a handout? The Government merely committed for BC Hydro to buy the same power, for the same prices from Alcan - as it would any other company.

I don't see how this is a giveaway. This $2B investment would have really, really helped the economy of the Northwest and it is very disappointing it was not approved.

Everybody should know (esp. the people in Kitimat) that commodities are cyclical. Aluminum is hot right now, but it won't be in five years. Selling power to the gov't AT PREVAILING MARKET RATES allows this massive investment to remain profitable during the down years...

This is a sad day for BC. I suspect many NDP appointees sit on this board. Clearly, an overhaul is necessary.

Worrywart:

I don't see your point. There would be no power (in this instance) if it weren't for Alcan. Alcan has purchased or leased land and adhered to some of the most stringent environmental policies in the world....

Saskatchewan has fertile farmland - they produce a large portion of the food in this country - yet they pay the same prices we do in BC!!! They could shut their border down and feed their people for pennies - but think about what kind of sense that makes!!

This power is not OUR POWER. It is Alcan's power. Power is not like water - it doesn't just appear. As long as they comply with environmental standards, they can do whatever they want with it. Furthermore, we charge Alcan royalties for doing this.

This is a foolish arguement. I can somewhat see this argument with oil and gas. Once you drill it, it is gone forever! However, these companies pay hefty royalties. This power is generated as a by-product of Aluminum production. They will continue to generate it, so long as the water flows..

Capitalism/ Mabellbc sez

This government had been in power since 2001. It has had plenty of time to re-stock the Utilities Commission with folks who think as you do Cappy.

Clearly, you don't like people actually doing their job unless the result suits your palette.

Why am I not surprised? That's pretty much de rigueur for neoLiberals in this province. Thanks at least for not trying to hide behind a veneer of phony objectivity. When an ‘independent’ commission in this province actually acts independently, it’s a time for rejoicing, ‘now ain’t the time for your tears’.

Hey Gavin,

Alcan's (AL) share price has dropped over 10% in the past couple of days. If you are so certain about the reversal of this decision...go buy some shares! You talked me into it!!

Use this opportunity to capitalize - it is the Canadian way!!

PS - Did you see Tim Horton's shares today! I'll be going out extra hard during my next trip to Vegas - March Madness 2007!!

Gavin,

If this was indeed independent - then good on them. Though, I smell politics here. There is no doubt this does little (really nothing at all) for hydro consumers. They may be looking at it from that angle - though it certainly doesn't hurt hydro users.

However, when you add zero net gain to consumers + huge provincial economic gains and investment = LET THIS THING PROCEED!

Cappy
Your attempt to be fair-minded is late and light. I know exactly what YOU think and I'm not surprised you'd be crying the blues.
Have you taken the time to read the material from Peter Dimitrov I posted here yesterday?

I'd guess not.

Hydro should be a public utility producing power at the best possible rates for all British Columbians - not just Liberal friends and neighbours.

Capitalism in essential services is nothing but an opportunity for legalized theft and that's what you're into, I know.

If Alcan really wants to produce the extra power it should be under a long term contract at below market rates just like the first 25 years of Columbia power was. That's how you stimulate growth and build infrastructure. Something Hydro Quebec understands and Campbell couldn't care less about. All he wants to do is give guys like your bouquets of US $20 bills and smile like an idiot.

People - even the people on the Utilities Commission are gradually waking up.

It's sad you're still asleep.

Gavin,

I could care less about what the Russians have to say. They've already ruined their own country once. As things were finally starting to turn a corner, Putin and the KGB hacks got at it again.

That pretty much sums you up doesn't it Cappy you haven't got a clue.
Peter Dimitrov is a proud Canadian - I guess you're not.
You're not even as funny as maestro.

You must be into the sauce again tonight.
Just go back to sleep - people who are actually interested in the fate of the province and its assets will read the article and it'll lead to understanding.

You're not worth my time.

For anyone who actually wants to learn something about what's behind the Utilities Commission decision, and isn't intent upon demonstrating how utterly ignorant they are, I would suggest stopping by vivelecanada.ca sometime in the next day or so to read Robin Matthew's thoughts on the thing.

I'll just post a few lines to give you something to think about while you're waiting for the full text:

The "long-simmering dispute" is really the Alcan intention to dismantle its 1950 agreement with the people of B.C. and to grab the whole Nechako River for itself, for its power, for Alcan to sell at kidnapper prices (with the active support of Gordon Campbell).

In 2002 Alcan presented a Province wide river energy plan to Gordon Campbell, a planned privatization - in fact a suggested policy of theft of every hydro capable river. And in this case - of the Nechako River - it wanted the people's ownership delivered to it before New Year.
Working as he does for Private Corporations and not for the B.C. people, Gordon Campbell used the Alcan presentation as a model for all B.C. rivers being transferred into private hands under "his own" new energy policy. He has been wrenching rivers from public ownership and guardianship as fast as he can, delivering them to private, often foreign corporations.

Campbell is doing that in an active breach of trust, lying, deceiving, using secret deals, and gag-legislation, hiding all that he can from British Columbians (with the active support of the Private Corporate Press and Media in Canada).

Opponents of the Alcan deal point to what is probably a key to the whole scam. Gordon Campbell travelled to Kitimat, did not see the Mayor or Council, but instead inked a quiet offer to Alcan of $2 billion for power and decided to cloak it as expansion money intended for the aluminum smelter there. He didn't mention the planned (secret) change to the status of the Nechako water resource. Many believe the whole smelter expansion announcement was a fraud, set up to divert attention from the real plan. That was to end aluminum production (already cut down), close the town of Kitimat, and unloose Alcan to be a major, highest price seller of water energy power into the U.S. - into the so-called power grid.

Alcan (as the headlines I've quoted suggest) claims the water energy power sale deal is part of the aluminum smelter expansion program.

That is simply false. The people of Kitimat know that. They've experienced such dealing before.
The proposed deal for power handover to Alcan - is to sell to B.C. users energy at $71.00 a megawatt hour that costs Alcan a little less than $5.00 to produce. That means British Columbians' energy prices would soar perpetually so that Gordon Campbell's corporate buddies could glut themselves on obscene profit "forever" - as far as B.C. users are concerned. Moreover, the proposed sale is NOT tied to the building of the theoretical 2 billion dollar aluminum smelter expansion (as is ballyhoo'd in the Private Corporate Press). The theoretical expansion, it appears, is simply part of what we have come to know as Gordon Campbell's deceitful style.

So, interested readers, follow up at Vive. Cappy, you get the weekend off.

Point is, the wealth of this province is generated in the north and the hinterland in general. Yet the only area of the province that is growing is the lower mainland, where all they can do is grow cranberries. The hinterland is shrinking.

Amazinig what profits can be generated from cranberries...........

Gavin,

That little blog you posted is pure crap - reading behind all the emotional words, there is nothing there.

Let's move away from conspiracy theories for one second. The question becomes - how is this deal bad for Hydro consumers? Alcan will merely sell its power for the same prices, BC Hydro buys it for in the first place?

The commission said this will harm consumers. Show me where we are harmed and we can discuss the latter issues.

Secondly, the only reason it costs Alcan $5/mw hr - is because they are about to invest $2 billion to do so!!! Gavin, that is what businesses do. They make large, up-front investments - which provide them with economies of scale. They then sell their product for a profit!!

Pssttt..go buy some Alcan stock!!

BS, Cappy and you know it, this is a bad deal for everyone except Gordo and his friends and shareholders who don’t pay their fair share of taxes on dividend income and you know it. You know perfectly well what's happening to BCHydro and any consuming British Columbian who doesn't feel a foreign hand in their pockets is paralytic or someone who is in on the theft of 'our' resources.

If you don't know the difference between $5 and $71 I have that bridge I'm taking bids on. Certified cheques only.

This isn't a conspiracy theory. It's theft. Plain and simple, in my view.

By the way, if developing the power IS the real reason behind Alcan's plan then I'd far sooner the investment came from the public and the benefits - in terms of downstream hydro capacity and stimulative rate structures - go to the public and not a bunch of greedy lazy shareholders with imaginary money like you. Your kind doesn't need ANY encouragement.

I've actually met Mr. Campbell a few times - before and after him becoming premier. He is a geniune person. I have no doubt he has BC's best interests at mind.

We are in good hands!

Gavin,

The truth comes out - you commies. You would rather the good ole government build it, create government jobs - crown owned assets.

You know what Gavin, the only way to do this is to increase taxes. Forget it. We pay far too much already! We don't live in the 50s Gavin.

We have competitive forces everywhere around us. Haven't you seen the ADs - BC, the best place on earth! It should also be one of the best to do business. Let's bring the best minds forward!!

Yeh I've seen all the lies Cappy. People with truth on their side don't have to make up ridiculous slogans and get their 200 odd full time paid hacks to get them in front of the public. Have a look at Order in Council 656 (Sept 12, 2006) if you don't believe me. You can get it online - for a small fee (well within your capitalistic means) at QPLegaleze.ca if you're interested.

As usual, when push comes to shove you revert to type and start calling people names. We don't need to increase taxes - rates in fact would go down on average - just every dollar earned, no matter how, would be subject to tax. No more freebies for folks like people who pride themselves on having 'passive' income.

You and the rest of the Robert Kiyosaki and Donald Trump wannabees have run this ponzi scheme long enough. It's time to come clean and get a real job Cappy - either that or move to the States where guys like you are heroes. Until they get caught and go to jail.

You couldn't cope with real competition dude.

yeah, and my granfather met Mr. Hitler and he too was a genuine person.
What counts is who control this puppet called MR. Campbell and what sick scheme they have in mind for the citizens of BC?
Most likely they reside elsewhere and we are the pawns.

alive
Thanks for bringing that back up, I tend to skim Cappy's offerings and missed this howler:

We are in good hands!

I think it deserves a little frame and some bold pigment don't you?

This is the same guy who posted this gem yesterday about Peter Dimitrov:

We are clearly dealing with, in Cappy, a figure of 'intelligence' and stature all right. If I had more time I'd post his magnum opus on getting shit-faced and playing the tables at Vegas.

I once read a book that collected all of Hitler's so-called fireside chats. I think he made one mention of Canada. He said, and I paraphrase since I can't remember the actual words and the book has long since gone back to the library, that 'Canada was a land so rich and empty that even an idiot could not fail to run it profitably'.

I don't know if we're proving the truth - or the falsity - of that statement.
cheers.

Gavin,

You are rather clever - what amazes me is your knowledge of popular culture. Trump, Cramer, Kiyosaki - you drop the names of celebrities.

I was but 22 when I made my first investment. It's not too late for you. You clearly love research and analysis. Start playing the market! It's a heck of a lot more productive that spending all your time at the Tyee...

You might find that your fortunes will change! In fact, the Tyee has made me a little money. Everytime I see them write an article about a company, the stock shoots up. I think it is because these companies are starting to garner the attention of the fringe media - and soon the masses.

I've bought everytime - the only time I've lost is on Talisman!

My fortunes are just fine Cappy! Don't lose a moment's sleep over me. It's people with your kind of pathology who bother me.

If I'd wanted to play the Celebrity Ponzi Game I could certainly have done so. I really do believe - and try to live - the philosophy I espouse on these pages. In fact, in some dark way your success as an 'investor' just helps to prove the point that the system is stacked unfairly against real people who do real work and actually contribute to the well-being of the country – and pay their fare share of tax to help support the kind of life-style we all ought to enjoy in a country as rich as Canada.

Your 'style' isn't the least bit attractive to me.

Capitalism said,

Nice compliment to the Tyee.

Thanks G West, exactly my sentiments, except the idiots we elect seem to manage to destroy it by giving away the riches!

Woody,

The Tyee doesn't move the market. However, they are good at creating conspiracy theories against profitable companies. They try and provide "innovative" journalism. They merely attack very profitable companies, who are clearly making a fair bit of cake.

So, when the Tyee catches on - it tells me wow! - this company must be raking in the cash!

That's so fascinating ... Cappy has met a genuine person and lived to tell the story!

Please, Cappy, fill in the details (where the Devil is, you know).

Where, when, and why? Then, of course, what? And if?

Then you went back and did it again?

I'd say that Kitimat should be the Flagship town of the People's Peace Movement!
Kitimat just showed the rest of US that WE as a movement togeather can take on these Alcan't etal greedy corrupt corporations and Win!
I'll/WE be sending the mayor and brave citizens of Kitimat a letter of support as they are not alone in taking on gordo and his cowardly stooges selling US out.
MY grandchildren will remember this turning point in their history!
cap I notice all your other miscreants have left
http://www.iwtnews.com/home

Good idea!
It is great to learn of one politician who is not in the pocket of the big corporations!
To me Alcan exemplifies, everything that is bad about big corporations: they say all the correct things and implement trendy ideas, but miserably fail to follow up!
Everything gets buried in their bureacracy, and the the result is that even good ideas never get past the big fanfare at the beginning.
In simple language: too many chiefs, not enough indians!

Alcan power deal creating big problems for Liberals

Paul Willcocks

Times Colonist

Sunday, January 07, 2007

So why did Premier Gordon Campbell back a power deal that would have gouged British Columbians and handed the proceeds to Alcan? That's one of the tough questions that is going to be asked after the latest twists and turns in the aluminum giant's 58-year dance with provincial governments.

Back in August Campbell took a break from his holidays to celebrate a complex agreement with Alcan.

The corporation said it intended to modernize its Kitimat smelter. The $1.8-billion project would result in about 550 fewer jobs, but would ensure the plant stayed open for a couple of decades. As part of the deal B.C. Hydro agreed to buy electricity from Alcan for the next 20 years.

Campbell maintained that the power sale was a good deal for British Columbians. But all the parties fought to keep its terms secret.

The bid for secrecy failed. And the details that emerged prompted angry complaints from consumers and companies developing other power projects. Alcan's deal was wildly generous, they maintained. It handed the company huge profits -- in the hundreds of millions of dollars -- for no reason. The mega-corporation got the agreement even though the government should have had all the negotiating power.

The government brushed off the concerns. But it turns out, according to the B.C. Utilities Commission, that the critics were -- at least in significant part -- right.

The commission, the watchdog that regulates B.C. Hydro to make sure consumers are protected, said the deal was fundamentally flawed.

B.C. Hydro was agreeing to pay too much for the power, handing Alcan windfall profits. Consumers, individuals and companies would pay unnecessarily high power rates as a result. The initial ruling supports complaints that this was a sweetheart deal for Alcan.

B.C. Hydro and the government had agreed to pay $110 million in up-front "incentive payments" to Alcan. The deal also committed B.C. Hydro to pay at least $70 per megawatt/hour for electricity, comparable to the rates in its latest open tender process.

Too much, said the commission.

and here's the rest of Willcock's column.

Reads a lot like Robin Matthews and Peter Dimitrov - if you didn't you notice, Cappy? Guess they're all Russians eh?

And those companies had to construct new plants. Alcan would simply be tapping its existing Kemano power project, which produces some of the cheapest power in B.C. The electricity that B.C. Hydro proposed buying for $70 per megawatt/hour costs Alcan $5 to $10 to produce. Alcan would have made something like $1 billion in profits over the life of the deal.

Now things are getting interesting. Alcan says unless it's allowed to make big profits from selling the power it won't modernize the smelter. It's not an idle threat; aluminum companies routinely seek and get concessions from governments in return for investment.

The affair will add to fears, especially in Kitimat, that the government is more interested in making Alcan happy than in protecting the public interest.

The municipality has been in a fierce battle with the government over Alcan's power sales. Kitimat argues that the 1950 legislation giving the corporation the right to dam the Nechako River and build the Kemano power project was clear. It could only use the electricity for the smelter or other industrial development in the region.

If the deal was enforced, Kitimat argues, Alcan would have to expand the smelter to use the electricity -- protecting jobs -- or the power ownership would revert to the government. That would mean B.C. Hydro customers would benefit from the cheap power.

A reading of the 1950 act supports the community's claim.

But the provincial government says Alcan can do what it likes with the electricity, including closing the smelter and selling all the power.

But the government hasn't explained when the rules changed, why or who made the decision.

Kitimat took the government to B.C. Supreme Court last month to try to make it enforce the 1950 agreement. A decision is expected soon.

There's no way to predict how this is going to be resolved. But the whole affair is certain to raise more tough questions about whether the government is paying more attention to Alcan's arguments than the public interest.

Footnote: An Alcan executive warned that the expansion will be scrapped if the company can't sell the power at market rates. But he didn't say what would happen to the electricity if the sales deal doesn't go through.

Kitimat maintains the power -- a hugely valuable resource -- would belong to the public. The utilities commission ruling and the B.C. Supreme Court ruling are turning in to billion-dollar decisions.

© Times Colonist (Victoria) 2007

For those of you who've been bopping back and forth looking for Robin's piece excerpted above, it is now available complete at http://www.vivelecanada.ca/

Thanks again G West
Well gordo some more late nights behind closed doors with your pack of rats.
"Oh what goes on behind closed doors" 50's song I think
Just for trying to screw the British Columbian citizens gordo should be brought up on Charges of Treason against the People of British Columbia and OUR kids future because thats exactly what is happening!
Gordo should be stripped of the title of Preimer and all power!
GREAT JOB KITIMAT!

"GREAT JOB KITIMAT!"

Just change that to "NO JOBS KITIMAT"-we'll be just fine-keep them welfare cheques comin'......

Paul Wilcock's article can also be found at

http://willcocks.blogspot.com/

steveoverhere:

Even The Province thinks the deal was bad for BC.
Here is their editorial.

http://www.canada.com/theprovince/news/editorial/story.html?id=8bd06d7b-2096-4cdd-9dd0-e3aa69c9b20a

steveoverwhere? Why don't you read before you enter such unintelligent blogs you are just proving your?.
Man BC is fighting for it's DEMOCRATIC life/future right now!
January 17 2007 9:00am next trial date for Basi, Basi, Verk I think at least it was, maybe delayed again?
Alcan and Gordo sounds a lot like insider trading to me.

I wonder what happened to BC Mary's site as the last entry was Jan 02-07?
It was rumored she had been warned twice by who and what happened to free speech?
I've followed her site for about 21/2 years.

"steveoverwhere? Why don't you read before you enter such unintelligent blogs you are just proving your?."
Man BC is fighting for it's DEMOCRATIC life/future right now!"

and
"I wonder what happened to BC Mary's site "

Y'know, I hear that if you put tinfoil on a kitchen pot-"They" can't read your mind.......Do you mean BC is fighting to finally shaking off the cobwebs from the failed socialist attempts of the past?

Steve,
You've been putting it in a 'pot' on the stove?

My God man, no wonder they're reading your thoughts.

You have to shape it into a pointy funnel and wear it on your own head, like a toque.

In addition, you should get the amalgam fillings pulled out of your teeth too. I understood Gordo sent that memo out to all his supporters.

The Utilities Commission has a good track record of protecting ratepayer interests. It turned down the first incarnation of the (environmentally and economically ridiculous) Nanaimo gas plant, as being not in the ratepayer interest. That was a fascinating story - Glen Clark having fast-tracked an earlier incarnation of the gas plant to bypass the BCUC (the plant's power being so *vital* to the public interest that there was no time to do a public review), the Liberals campaigned that they'd never allow a power proposal to bypass the BCUC. Well, once elected, many reminded them of that election promise, and Campbell grudgingly referred it to BCUC, which then rejected the Nanaimo gas plant based on its cost to ratepayers. Hooray!!
However, the sidebar is that BC Hydro then sold (cheap!) the plans to the private sector as a private power proposal. The rules before the BCUC were different - I think maybe the BCUC legislation didn't anticipate private power - and the new version of the Nanaimo gas plant was approved (but later, engo's were given leave by the supreme court to appeal, which made Hydro lose heart and cancel the whole deal... Hooray again).
So, locally we are living happily ever after, having fought the gas plant for 4 1/2 years...
But with that, and with Alcan clearly working the press hard in the wake of the ruling against them, look for the Liberals to gut the Utilities Commission Act, as they did the Environmental Assessment Act when first elected.

steveoverwhere? Quote:Y'know,

steveoverwhere?

No wonder the so called right/elite are so ked up
With an answer like yours WE lefties/real people with compassion for OUR fellow man/woman have nothing to fear from you and your gated communities. WE have more freedom than you with your back yard tennis courts, swimming pools, expensive cars/trucks, all material STUFF.
If you lose all your wealth in the next stock market crash and it will come will your buddies be there for you? I doubt it your way of life is extremely cut-throat.

Alcan & BC Hydro

Alcan got the rights to generate electricity at Kemano by talking about building a smelter 4 times the size of what they ended up building. They only built 1/4 of the plant. They had plans for many more pot lines, and a much larger city. I think they reneged already, then and there.

Workers on the pot lines are given salt tablets so that they don't collapse from dehydration. The pay is good, but you can't call them pleasant working conditions.

Now they want to get into the much more lucrative electricity generation industry. It's way easier to make money in generating electricity than it is in smelting aluminum, especially with guys like Campbell in charge. So they come up with this "great for the north west" plan to modernize the plant. The thing is that the plant will end up employing LESS people. What will that do to the town? Do you know how cheap you can buy a house for up there? You can get several apartment blocks for the price of a single house in most other towns - but good luck finding the renters to keep them full.

The root of the problem is the criminal dismantling of BC Hydro. After the criminal dismantling of BC Tel, of BC Gas, of BC Ferries, and probably ICBC eventually. All of the infrastructure that all of us built and owned that made this such a great place to live being torn apart and handed out to good old boys. Very sickening. Is there any better place in the world left to move to?

They've demolished the hospital (hugely oversized because Alcan never built the smelter they said they would), the housing market is a disaster, and everyone shops in Terrace anyway. Why not let Alcan close their plant and let the town die?

Then Kemano could be taken over by BC Hydro. THAT would be in the public's interest. Cushion us a little bit from needing all those overpriced over-termed independant power production contracts Campbell is pushing down our throats. What say everyone?

G West to mikev

Makes eminently good sense to me. I think it's time we did a little more than talk about this stuff. I think it's time we started organizing.

The opposition in this province appears to be in a permanent coma. Keep watching, things may be starting to stir this spring.

Interesting thought mikev..........

Interesting thought mikev, what makes you think the price for power would be lower if BC Hydro was in charge of the power produced in Kemano? After all BC Hydro is a business too. Do you honestly believe that this is all Alcan wants to do, sell power? To spend 2 billion dollars to modernize a facility, only to sell power?

You may want to do some more FACT finding about what it is Alcan is proposing for the modernization. The new smelter, yes you are correct would employ fewer people but it would also consume more of the power generated from Kemano. There would not be this excess of power people seem to think there would be. Probably around 50 megawatts left over, hardly enough to power Kitimat or Terrace on a regular basis. The current price for power to IPP (that is independant power producers) is around $78/megawatt, more than what Alcan was looking for ($71).

As for buying a house in Kitimat for a cheap price, you are correct again. There are fewer people working at Alcan through attrition, employee's not replaced after some have retired, newer equipment, micro-environment machines for the workers, etc. We should also (to be fair) look at some of the other employers in the town who have cut back on employee's.

Both Eurocan and the District themselves have fewer people working for them then they use to have a few years ago. Wouldn't this have some impact on these empty houses you talk about? If you think that by letting the town die will solve what you see as a problem I disagree, it would compound the problem of the North West. There would be a fair amount of businesses in the various communities closing their doors, due to the fewer customers.

Let's not forget that Methanex left the town also, something there was not much mention about from the Distirct or the Mayor. Why not? Surely you would think that the Mayor and his followers would want all the business they could have to stay. What about mentioning these job losses? I didn't hear about this in the news as much as Alcan is, probably because it doesn't make as good a tale to be told.

A thought for consideration is this: there are people in the community who are not in favor of what the Mayor and his followers are doing (Yes I am one against the Mayor and his followers). There have been court cases fought and lost by the District on the issue of Kemano. It is too bad that we who work and live here, and want to have a good life for our families are subjected to all of this negativity. You see not all of us believe Alcan is only after selling the power generated in Kemano, they are an aluminium smelter first and foremost.

There are many other points of FACT that I could write about but what would it do? They are available if anyone really wanted to educate themselves. I find it odd that the National CAW in Quebec would be in total support of Alcan's recent announcements in that Province and here they are not. You can look this up, the pictures of support are worth a thousand words.

You mentioned about people shopping in Terrace, do you have any idea why this might be? Would it interest you to know that the Mayor and his followers shop in Terrace? It would be for several reasons, one is that the price of most things are cheaper in Terrace. It would be a reason to get out of town for even a day with the family and to spend some of the money made form working in clean, micro-environmentaly friendly machines.

The working conditions are not as you described them. The description you gave in your article is about 20 - 25 years old, salt tablets will make you sick. The average worker spends about 3-4 hours a shift in the section. Of this time spent in the section working the employee's have the most up to date respiritory equipment available. Aircondition machines, cool rooms airconditioned and the lunchrooms airconditioned. Pretty bad working conditions? Ask the guy who works outside all day long, in the cold, wet weather if he would like to work in the conditions I described. I bet he would ay sure.

G West,

you are correct also, we should organize. Just not the way you see it. The people who are not in favor of the Mayor and his followers should organize, rally to save the town, the modernization project and reputation of Kitimat as a place to invest in. What do you think?

Fascism is here in BC!

G West I also believe that it is time to Organize start organizing now for early spring!
What happened to the idea that government worked toward the "Betterment of all People" who are elected and quite handsomely paid by USthe People
The People of BC United Will Never Be Defeated let's speak with "ONE VOICE"

The great T.C.Douglas

So long as the people do not

So long as the people do not care to exercise their freedom, those who wish to tyrannize will do so; for tyrants are active and ardent, and will devote themselves in the name of any number of gods, religious and otherwise, to put shackles upon sleeping men: Voltaire. François Marie Arouet (1694-1778)