Dead right!

I agree. The NDP could not come out and support the Valley Rail proposal, which may not have won them an election, but may have made people demand the same of the Liberals.

This election was for James and the party to lose and they did, in Technicolor!

If Delta South could elect an independent in a Liberal stronghold and with a Liberal star candidate, then every BC riding was winnable.

another great column

Thanks Rafe, always enjoy reading your columns.

Yes: get rid of the NDP campaign strategy team.

Yes: get rid of the gender bias rule, it just alienates the party insiders.

And RECRUIT NEW VOTERS. Sign up those under 30s. We had less than a 50% voter turn out . . .

PS Thank you for your wonderful work against the industrial private power dams. At least the issue is on the table now.

I made some comments, before

I made some comments, before the writ was dropped, about why the NDP want to form the government, when the economy is in such a shambles and the Ca-ca is going to hit the fan over the Liberals mis-management. I thought that the NDP should just go through the motions and hope to lose. Just wait for 4 years and see the Liberals self-destruct. Campbell is the glue that hold those bunch-of-boobs together.

look around: it is a big world!

Good observations, seems most NDP voters knew that party had flunked out, even before the ballots were counted!

Customarily it is for the leader to set the tone, and James failed to make an imprint of her style (except for that gender equality fiasco).

She needs to go, the sooner the better, let the Captain go down with his ship, that is the tradition because it is assumed that it is his directions that caused the failure.

We make the mistake of waiting for new hopefulls to become known, before we dare to endorse them; but in an atmosphere of a failing movement, can you expect any talented person to hang around?

Maybe we need to scout the world for someone who has visions of his own? is that not what the liberals did?

Provincially and federally the NDP needs new inspiration, and it would be great if it included some world-perspectives.

Everyting depends on the world situation and we are fooling ourselves to think that we can create circumstances here that overrides the world market.

Once again I call for a world-wide organization of people to oppose the consolidated force of organized multi-nationals.

In other words forget all this nationalistic crap! we are controlled by a multi-national group and we have to meet them on a similar basis!

Carole James and George Chuvalo

Rafe is out of his mind thinking the party can ever ever win with Carol James.

The level of competence the NDP has shown by picking Carol James in the first place and running one of the stupidest election campaigns in decades, requires a massive purging. And the buck stopped at Carol James, she needs to stick around long enough to find a replacement then go.

James is the George Chuvalo of the politics game, wooden, dogged, utterly no finesse, uneducated, stupid, stubborn, but great at taking a punch. Chuvalo was also a close second in almost every major fight he was in. Muhammad Ali made the Carole analogy perfectly in calling Chuvalo "washerwoman".

As Rafe states the party lead by James ignored the unmatched in Canadian history financial incompetence of Campbell, barely mentioning committed IPP and other PPP losses approaching 100 billion and all
off the book . No matter how many commentators be it Rafe himself, online and on the air commentators on stations like CFAX kept telling James, Horgan, Dix, Simpson and other NDP idiots "its the economy stupid" they'd persist in speaking of hospitals, and homeless, and motherhood and little kittens. Everybody knows the NDP was great on those issues.

When Campbell mentioned James' lack of business experience, she could have hit back with Campbell having no business experience either having worked 30 years ago as the political bagman for some real estate developer. She have asked Campbell why is it that the only experienced qualified power engineer and business executive in his party Ralph Sultan sits on the backbench.

James barely made it out of high school and it showed big time.

Adrian Dix despite following the leaders policy of ignoring economic issues, was an excellent debater kicking the ass of Neocon contenders whenever they dared rear their ugly heads. Jim Sinclair, Ken Georgetti both excellent debaters would have wiped the floor with all Neocon comers, especially the likes of Suzuki, Bill Good, Vaughn Palmer, Mike Smyth and of course Gordo and any of his minions.

In speaking with my non political working class buddies, they refused to vote for James with names for her like shrill, just can't stand her, harpy, witch, bitch, ugly and ball breaker. Given the utter idiocy of those comments, sadly the NDP must realize that it is impossible to get a working class male or female voters to get out and vote for a woman unless she is a spokesmodel Sarah Palin/Carole Taylor type babe. George Bush was elected and reelected by working class types, who were the major recipients of the Bush crime family shaft.

The party needs her out of there and soon.

Right on Rafe!

Just waiting for the neocon side to implode is not wise. They will always find a way with a sleepy opposition. Rafe is right. Whatever influence Carole James had on the strategy - and I don't believe it is just the campaign team - it all needs to change. The NDP needs some pit bulls who are not afraid to rile the Campbell gang. Too many are just content to have a good paying job and are too afraid to lose it if they offend some people.

The battle needs to be taken to every constituency all through the term. People don't watch the legislative channel and they can't get awake just at election time. MLA"s now have considerable resources and large salaries to communicate with constituents. They just seem too lazy to do anything.

step up to the plate

Progressives need to help out the NDP although I am with you in wishing they'd change their name.

We all need to step up to the plate.

First, we cannot let the Green party stand.

The misguided individuals currently in control of that party, are already committed to running a full slate of idiots in 2013 and no doubt in the coming federal election. They hell bent on destroying the environment and our economy by continuing to ensure neocon victories.

All progressives NDP and Green alike need to take up provincial and federal Green party memberships, go to meetings nominate delegates and eliminate these misguided fools that have so far elected George Bush (instead of Al Gore), Harpo twice, and Gordo twice. This party must stop running candidates and thinking progressive voters need to ensure that happens.

Having done so we can turn our attention to the NDP and get that bunch straightened out with decent policies and new leadership.

This is a war with the dark side. The world doesn't have time for us to split up the good and let the Neocon evil triumph. So far they are winning, and Jane Sterk is on their team.

Not far enough Rafe

I think the NDP needs to do even deeper soul-searching than suggested by Rafe.

Rafe suggests bringing organised labour back into the fold. I say no way! It is time to END OUTRIGHT all donations from unions or businesses in politics. Any loss in dirty union money will be more than made up by similar decreases in Liberal dirty business donations. The influence of organised money in democracy is perverse, undemocratic, and toxic.

Union members, not unions. Business owners, not businesses.

It is not that new progressives want to "gag" these legal fictions, it's that we understand that citizenship is the only real unit in democracy and we want those fictions to stop "choking" and skewing the democratic process itself.

I believe the NDP campaign (and communications strategy in the house) shows that the Farnworth/James/Dix crew actually believes politics to be a game with power as the prize. It's OK to lie and mislead your own supporters and the public so long as it gets you to power.

I would suggest that those who agree the "strategy team" needs to go should accept that the James/Farnworth/Fed team needs to go. They had complete control of communications and the strategy is a true reflection of that group's political values and judgment.

The James/Farnworth team also silenced their own MLAs.

I don't think they understand how different many younger progressive people feel about the world going forward; and I don't think they understand the nature of the threats that face our future. The BS politicking and undemocratic money IS the threat.

The James/Farnworth/BC Fed wing represent the BS politicking and undemocratic money wing of the party; which is more of the same. I believe a more dramatic break is necessary to attract progressive leaders and voters.

Good Points, Rafe

Having been involved in engineering all my life, I will avoid commenting on the power side of Rafe's article. It does not present both sides of the story.

That said, what Rafe is recommending for the NDP is exactly, to the letter, what I have been posting for the past five years here.

The two hacks most responsible for the defeat, Gerry Scott and Bill Tieleman, should be exiled to Lower Post without a computer until after the next election. Both these guys walked away with big fat pay cheques they won through incestuous self promotion and they should be banished from anywhere new party HQ. They accomplished absolutely no gains for the NDP this election.

However, the real problem is the Party Faithful. For them, they represent All That is Just, Good and Fair and deviating one mm from the Cause is Heresy and Punishable by death. They would rather lose elections and feel Good and Just and Fair than to actually have to run a campaign that voters would respond to with their votes.

Let's face two basic facts:

1. You can be Pure, Good and Just but if you don't hold office you can't do your good works. If you do attain office, you have to keep enough people happy to keep yourself there. It is so basic and the Faithful just keep missing this.

2. Your opponents are not "stupid." They are darned smart. Just because 80% of people don't agree with your Faithfulness, doesn't mean they are intellectually challenged. Holding this view is an enormously patronizing to voters and holds the NDP back from winning elections.

3. The NDP is not capable of learning this anyway, so it is all a moot point. They seem to thrive on defeat.

Lose the central campaign team..

and strategists. Those guys are so far out of touch with the "real" world they may as well be on the moon. And the rest of the party needs to get off their butts and quit waiting for someone else to make the decisions. They all blew it big time and now the rest of us have to pay for four more, incredibly scary years.

Wilf and Amor de cosmos

Bill Tielmann was not a strategist for the NDP. Gerry Scott was. Your hate on for Bill knows no bounds since you lost STV. I dare say even STV would have lost without Tielmann. All you had to do was get into the details an people said no thanks. So get over it. You're a Campbell Liberal anyway so why would your advice be worth anything other than a way of keeping him in power.

There is really no one in the NDP currently who can jump the gap created by Canwest. That takes a special type of person and it can be done. Carole is easy to ignore as are most of the NDP. They need to be let loose on the liberals.

As for Amor de cosmos my point is the same. So labour had a connection with the NDP. That was hardly anything as bad as the Liberal/business connection. A government does something to make it easier for workers generally and you guys go ballistic. Liberals do something to increase profits for business at a cost to taxpayers and it is OK. Privatizations, pimping our rivers, selling of assets and resources to fill the pockets of carpetbaggers in the U.S. and that's OK with you guys. But make it easier to unionize or pay fair wages to an entire sector of workers and uou guys go nuts..

Please, no more advice from the supporters of known liberal hacks and choir boys.

Really?

"Bill Tielmann was not a strategist for the NDP"

Really? He ran Mel Lehman's campaign in what is about the most important riding in the province. He was well paid to do it, too.

Skywalker, you and your party have to, at some time, accept responsibility for your defeats and do something to keep it from happening again. That is what the article is about and your reply just goes to show how difficult a task introspection is for your party.

Memories

One should recall whenever reading a post by Wilf or realisticman that over the years they have never disagreed with a single Liberal policy.

No matter what the issue, even highest child poverty in Canada, they support the Liberal brain trust and their dear leader.

Its Liberal talking points 24/7.

Just something to keep in mind so that it puts their comments on the NDP in proper context.

NDP Will Not Be Reinvented

Sorry Rafe. Canada's existing crop of political parties are all dinosaurs. Vicki Huntington's success is additional proof that they're headed for extinction.

I read the closing pages of Garth Turner's new book, "Sheeple", yesterday and his prognosis is very convincing.

As for the unions, same story. They buy political support of all kinds with money they take from members who are conscripted without any choice in the matter. Unions themselves are not democratic and most of their members resent the treatment they receive at the hands of the self-perpetuating labour elite.

The money the NDP gets from the unions comes at a price - votes. Apparently this doesn't bother them because they are prepared to stay perpetually in opposition.

ChrisB

"Unions themselves are not democratic"

Voting for the people who represent you isn't democratic? Using the same criteria, is BC democratic?

"Apparently this doesn't bother them because they are prepared to stay perpetually in opposition."

Its voters who decide who will govern them, not the NDP. As long as voters wish Campbell to rule in perpetuity, he will. Voters should blame the government they support, not a party that they didn't vote for.

Amor de cosmos

"I don't think they understand how different many younger progressive people feel about the world going forward"

How so? Let's not forget they tend to be non-voters and are apathetic politically. One can easily conclude they don't care about much except last weeks' American Idol.

QED

"Its voters who decide who will govern them, not the NDP"

Which leads us back to the problems that Rafe and myself have been posting here for years. It is more important to be Pure and Faithful than appeal to enough voters to get elected. For this reason, the Liberals easily win every election by default. They know it, too.

Wilf you are twisting again.

This is not about accepting responsibility for a defeat. I'm not the NDP or even a member. I'm just very careful about who the NDP should take advice from. I agreed with Rafe and have for some time. You on the other hand always come up with some liberal self-serving advice for the NDP and disagree with much of what Rafe says. You've become a constant apologist for everything that keeps Campbell in power.

"Pure and faithful", you gotta be kidding me!

"Pure and faithful" and "Campbell Liberals" are oxymorons. Any inference that Campbell is faithful to any more than a few corporate firends to pay his way is ludicrous. If Canwest did the job they are suppose to do and had an ounce of integrity the whole picture of who Campbell is faithful to and just how impure his government is would be revealed. Campbell does not know how to win an election without the media in his pocket. It is Canwest that got the government they paid for.

Voting Isn't Democracy

"Voting for the people who represent you isn't democratic? Using the same criteria, is BC democratic?"

No. I remain hopeful that democracy can be found in some places, but not where it counts most. It requires a lot of nurturing and so I suspect may be found in some smaller organizations (maybe even in some small trade unions). We haven't figured out how to keep it alive in our major governing institutions. Elections are used to put a false stamp of legitimacy on a power structure that does not represent the electorate.

In this recent election I voted for BCSTV and left the other ballot blank. I did not vote for Gordon Campbell by default. I knew that the incumbent NDP MLA would be re-elected in my riding. He didn't need my vote. Whether he deserved it or not is really a moot question because he has no ability to represent me. I don't mean that as a personal slight. I had a meeting with him not long before the election to discuss my ongoing dispute with the government. It was cordial, but not really productive.

The people in Delta South should now have a different perspective. Arguing that Vicki Huntington will have no voice in the Legislature is pure cynicism. Apparently Val Roddick was unable to offer them any representation, and Wally Oppal has just spent four years demonstrating his ineffectiveness as both an MLA and Attorney General.

I've been reading books and articles by various authors who have done a pretty good job of analyzing the problem. Donald Savoie, in "Court Government and the Collapse of Accountability ..." does an especially professional and thorough job of explaining the complex internal dynamics of government that work against the principles of democracy. However, generally speaking these authors stop short of prescribing solutions.

My view is that we have to find a way to enable some meaningful forms of participatory democracy. The Internet seems to offer some real hope for that. Discussion forums like this are a start, but we can do so much more. What, for example, is preventing us from running a full parallel election online but with a different voting system. BCSTV may have been a good idea. I particularly like the idea of a ballot that allows one to vote against a candidate. I could imagine a result that would be an embarrassment to the winning party, but that would reveal the real sentiments of the public.

Raif has it right

I totally agree with Raif Mair, when he says fire the campaign committee! I have been involved with this party since the early 70's and been very active. I can't remember being so frustrated as i was during this campaign with the central campaign.

What happened to James' plan to bring in new blood. Here were saddled with the tired old hacks.

Too bad for the province.

Rafe is correct..........

.......Carole James would make a good premier of this province.

And he's especially right about the power generation of IPPs. Sorry, Willy, but you aren't the only engineer in this province.

Bill Tieleman replies - Wilfred Laurier dead and wrong

"Wilfred Laurier" is both dead and wrong, dead wrong.

I had nothing to do with the BC NDP election campaign, I have received no "big fat pay cheques", and I haven't been anywhere near NDP HQ!

But Laurier says this:

"The two hacks most responsible for the defeat, Gerry Scott and Bill Tieleman, should be exiled to Lower Post without a computer until after the next election. Both these guys walked away with big fat pay cheques they won through incestuous self promotion and they should be banished from anywhere new party HQ. They accomplished absolutely no gains for the NDP this election."

And then this:

"'Bill Tielmann was not a strategist for the NDP'

Really? He ran Mel Lehman's campaign in what is about the most important riding in the province. He was well paid to do it, too."

Also dead wrong, including mis-spelling my name! I was MC for an event with Mel and Dave Barrett. I wasn't even paid for that.

Bryann McIver was Mel's campaign manager by the way but don't let the facts get in the way of a good posting.

And don't mistake my ongoing support in general for the NDP with a major, paid party role - because it just ain't true.

And now - back to the election

what must worry the NDP was their collapse of the vote in Delta South. This should send shock waves through the NDP hierarchy, because is shows that the NDP, like the Green party, is a party of protest and when the voter wanted to send a message, with the right candidate, it came via the Green and NDP vote.

Negative campaign, no voters

No surprise that many Tyee posters think the NDP failed to ignite voter passions around ... fill in the blanks with your pet campaign issue.

I think the NDP campaign was a success, if an unintended one. Their negative attack ads, ostensibly targeting Liberal wrongdoing, essentially said: Don't B.C. politics make you just want to stay home? In short, the constant drone was about problems without solutions (or none offered at least, let alone offered compellingly). Their only consistent message: Gordon Campbell! Gordon Campbell! Gordon Campbell!

The NDP succeeded in fueling the lowest voter turnout ever.

The NDP should tender its next ad campaign to a short list of professional advertising agencies, not the usual party hacks, and choose the proposal that most surprises them with its freshness. It is time the NDP saw itself as others see it, which is one reason private-sector marketers go to ad agencies rather than listen to themselves tell themselves how great they are.

I and most Tyee readers are likely to be captive NDP voters, and indeed I voted for the capable Adrian Dix in my riding without reservation, except one: it is depressing to keep voting for the party of yesterday's complaints and yesterday's campaign style.

We will see what Carole James does next, and hope mightily that it is a clean break from what she has just done in this campaign.

Leader

Rafe should run for leader of the NDP.

He would know how to lead and how to best utilize current talent and fade dead wood.

He also knows how to prioritize issues, as well as how to stand up to bullies.

Unfortunately, this BC province is simply not ready for a woman leader; even a Thatcher type would not do.

Do not mistake me - I'm a woman and have seen the intimidation, bullying, and ostracism practiced by both genders in politics and recognize that BC will still accept a good man as a Premier before a good woman.

Unfortunately, that is the reality today.

So, Rafe, why don't you start the process.

Unfortunately, this BC

Unfortunately, this BC province is simply not ready for a woman leader; even a Thatcher type would not do.

Do not mistake me - I'm a woman and have seen the intimidation, bullying, and ostracism practiced by both genders in politics and recognize that BC will still accept a good man as a Premier before a good woman.
----------

Hogwash.

Jenny Kwan or Joy McPhail would of won. James was a very poor amateur hour and she is to divisive within the party and a divided party does not win.

Dan

Its not hogwash at all. Carole James, Sharon Carstairs, Linda Haverstock etc were all labelled "shrill" among other terms. What a coincidence.

3 different provinces, 3 different women, same result. Women are discriminated against in politics. Their only chance is to run just as an MLA and ride the coattails of a man.

And Joy McPhail would not have had any better success considering what she endured as opposition leader.

Some facts to consider...

1)BClibs won by only 3.69%
2)Second consecutive election Carole James has scored higher percentage of pop. vote than anytime the NDP won power.
3)BClibs won 8 of their 49 seats by 0.4 to 3.9% over NDP candidates. 3464 ballots in 8 ridings gave Campbell a third term.
4)The NDP won 51% of the vote on Van. Isl- Sunshine coast and many of their 35 seats with over 50% of vote.

122,000 fewer people went to the polls and this is where the party should focus.
Gary Doer won on his third attempt and was elected to a third term as Manitoba's premier last year.

Darrel Dexter has a 16 point lead in the final days of the Nova Scotia election. This is his third election as NDP leader.

The BC NDP has to be careful not to throw the baby out with the bath water.

Rafe is right about a new team to manage the next election and to attract younger and non-voters between now and 2013.

He is wrong on returning to an organized labour base. That would return the NDP to a high 30's level that was successful only when the right wing vote was split. Unions and corporations should not control our political parties....this is a major reason for lower turn outs.

The changes that James has brought to the NDP have increased their vote totals. She and the people running this campaign did blow an opportunity and she has taken responsibility for this. I am inclined to give her another chance; with some fresh talent inside the party.

Frank...

So why do ya always wanna put words into my mouth? ;)

Criticize the Libs... Alrighty then...

1. When they came into office in 2001, they cut taxes too far and too fast which would blow a hole in the budget and it did;

2. The carbon tax is useless social engineering (cost the Libs many more votes than it gained) albeit I have analyzed it from an objective political perspective previously;

3. Gordo is a negative lightning rod for the Libs resulting in their low voter base turnout. He'll likely get replaced by Surrey Mayor Dianne Watts... and like I've said before she's very likeable, popular with the centre-left, and one helluva vote getter.

That's just for starters.

Now as for BC's political scene, your favourite pollster, ARS, released a federal opinion poll today with a BC sub-sample:

Con: 45% (N/C from elecion day) [right]
Lib: 26% (+7% from election day) [centre]
NDP: 22% (-4% from election day) [left]

http://www.angusreidstrategies.com/uploads/pages/pdfs/2009.06.01_FederalScene.pdf

That 22% is the hard core BC NDP base. The right-wing has double that figure.

Those figures provide a snapshot of BC's true political leanings. Ergo BC is much more centre-right than it is centre-left for all of you hard-core NDP'ers who can't ever figure that out. :D

Remember, Gordo cost the Libs 10 - 15 seats.

Next time round with Dianne Watts it will be a completely different story. REALLY. ;)

Agreed

Campbell is not going to run next time, he will be 65 and he wants to spend time with his grandson after a very long and successful political career. He was mayor of Vancouver three times and Premier three times. Like him or not, that is success in politics. Like him or not, he did something no NDP Premier has ever done, get re-elected and he did it twice.

Dianne Watts is his obvious replacement and she has charisma, backing and a very motivated campaign team. She will waltz into the premier's office by default because the Faithful are so clueless at winning elections.

Luke

You've just separated yourself from Wilf and realisticman in my opinion. I thank you for that.

"The right-wing has double that figure.
Those figures provide a snapshot of BC's true political leanings. Ergo BC is much more centre-right than it is centre-left for all of you hard-core NDP'ers who can't ever figure that out. :D "

Actually I always say that. But guys like you argue with me. Show me a time when I haven't pointed out the federal Conservative support in this province proves that BC is a right-wing province. I have no quibble iwth the ARS poll. It supports what I keep saying.

Which is that the NDP start much further back than Campbell does and that is why James' popular vote showing is excellent. Because it means about half of her support came from people who don't vote NDP federally.

Pundits just that!

In fact who's to say that the campaign was not well run. Once the NDP starts talking about economics, many die hard NDP haters just lose it. The NDP would have had to attack the Liberals economic record and defend their own. No small feat when it is almost a sin in politics to go on the defensive. It may be that this election was truly one that the NDP just could not win. Going negative with Gordo worked well, but the voters just couldn't get past a woman leader, another socialist gov't and past economic sin's.

The NDP needs to learn how to spin the truth to their advantage. Gordo gave up spinning the truth, he just out and out lies now.

Future BCliberal leader..

Diane Watts won't "waltz" into the premier's office. She may indeed be a good choice to lead the party after Campbell, but she faces some hurdles.

Frontrunners at this point are Hansen and De Jong, and both have considerable bases with the membership and with donors. And don't forget that many in the party see the conservative party as a threat in the future--especially if defecits become chronic. Watts may appear too moderate.

And all of the above

are why the average voter, with a short attention span, is so disenchanted with both parties and their respective hacks. And FYI, my union dues are not/were not dirty money. I earned em and paid em to the union of my choice who used to make donations to the NDP. I don't believe they do now. That should tell the NDP something.

PS I am a member of the NDP.

last hurrah

Campbell's last hurrah won't be the Olympics,it will be the wholesale sell-off of our public forests. This will be his solution to revitalize the ailing forest industry in B.C. We have a very large percentage of our forests held in public hands but are controlled by private corporations through TFL's, FL's, TL's etc. These companies are just salivating at the prospect of gaining full control of these forests in order to re-invest in mills and so on. They will get them at fire sale prices so Campbell can balance his budget but once in private hands their so-called re-investments will disappear along with the raw logs heading across the border and they will finally crush the forest unions which has been their main goal for years. This sell-off will make the IPP's look like a garage sale and thanks to NAFTA the logs and jobs will flow south along with the electricity. Once the forests and the rivers are under corporate(and foreign) control what do you think will become of the wild salmon?