Complicated doesn't win....

The NDP could have won. They could have done it.

By "playing it safe" and multi messaging they have sentenced our Province to 4 yrs of corporate greed and environmental destruction.
The destruction will be irreversible.

Carole needed to be tough from day 1.

The signs of where the campaign was going was early when she didn't support candidate Mable Elmore and made her apologize or the candidate with the 'silly" photos on face book who had to step down.
A few days later the story broke on all the traffic violations of Liberal candidates including the solicitor general.

People would have remembered her standing up for her candidates. Campbell would have looked even worse with his 'speed crazy" dangers on the road candidates.

The issues needed to be clearly defined. The BC Hydro rate rises and the selling out our rivers to his Corporate friends was a big enough issue to defeat the Liberals.

Everyone in B C gets a Hydro bill. No one wants them to double or triple in the next years like they will now under the Liberals.
Why wasn't there an ad with Carole holding up a BC Hydro bill of the future-showing huge increases? That would be simple and direct.

Most folks still think "run of river' as small benign power plants.
Why not an ad of her beside the destruction of the Ashlu River from a "run of river" project? Again simple and direct.
They needed to drive home that "run of rivers" was actually "ruin of rivers"-easy to remember

Bill Clinton won two presidential elections.
His campaign strategy KISS-Keep It Simple Stupid.

And what did the NDP so called strategist's come up with?
KICC-Keep It Complicated Carole.

Too bad.

Campaign tactics

Let's face it, the NDP ran an awful campaign led by two old time party hacks, both of whom have a proven track record: of losing elections.

The Liberals have a formidable machine of volunteers and plenty of money. The funneled that money into ridings they knew they could win, Vancouver Fairview for example. They stuck to their issues and for the most part kept it clean. Nobody ran after Carole looking for a blood sample, nobody ran "Carole James Hates You" ads.

The NDP was all over the place. They could not keep on an issue, were all over the map on the environment and had there supporters do some pretty distasteful things. It didn't work.

The real issue here is can the NDP learn from it's mistakes? They basically ran the same campaign with the same people in 2005 and they lost again in 2009. In my opinion the NDP participates in way to much incestuous amplification and convinces itself of victory so completely they lose sight of their goal: attaining government. Finally, when the post mortem happens they centre on blame and never of themselves. It is always Canwest or reactionary bourgeoisie or whatever other scapegoat they can think of.

The Liberals cost me money!

I was sold by "The Liberals cost me money!" theme. I didn't need more than that.

They froze my wages. Ditto my spouse's wages. My kids' tuition went up. My ferry rates went up. I'll have to pay for Olympics I didn't want. On and on and on....

I can't quite comprehend how people can actually vote against their own best interests. Anyway, I know enough to vote against people who make my life more difficult and more costly.

Uphill battle

The NDP is up against a huge establishment with tremendous resources. No matter what strategy it employs it is a huge uphill battle.

The Liberals have a lot of bad policies and though perhaps not the worst, their minimum wage policy is indefensible despite repeated attempts by CanWest publications to do just that.

If the minimum wage had risen with inflation the last 8 years it would be guess what? About $10.

And that's official inflation which has gone up much slower than food and rent inflation.

Pay raises for the Liberals and the top brass in gov't have gone up astronomically.

That the Liberals are not under any pressure to raise it even a nickel, or to start indexing it to inflation starting now, cannot be blamed on the NDP.

Society as a whole must take the blame. Business leaders and paid pundits and the delusional sorts that run our mainstream media are to blame.

The number of working people in homeless shelters is rising fast.

Class warfare is happening right now folks, and it's making our society uglier and uglier.

Wilf

"Finally, when the post mortem happens they centre on blame and never of themselves. It is always Canwest or reactionary bourgeoisie or whatever other scapegoat they can think of."

Wilf, where do you come up with this stuff? Is your analysis of the NDP post-election based on a few commentators at the Tyee or do you have some kind of inside track to the NDP back room?

You go on and on and on, saying the same things over and over AND you're smug, to boot. There's something to be said for being magnanimous in victory, you know?

The election is barely two days over, people are still licking their wounds. The post-mortem will come in time.

Yes, the NDP do have some soul searching to do, no doubt, but you'll have to forgive them if they don't go looking to you for the answers.

Boring Gordon

I have a contrary view of the success of the campaigns.

Most polls had the NDP quite far back at the beginning of the campaign. Over the campaign, they managed to shore up all their support from 2005, and I think that was an achievement. Some of their TV ads were effective, although very Harper-style negative.

The Talking Gordon ads were very boring, however. I don't think any of them were very good or convinced many new voters, especially the 60-second ones.

I think the BC Liberals won despite these ads, not because of them.

The BC NDP's Plans???

Wilfred Laurier

"The real issue here is can the NDP learn from it's mistakes?"

The BC NDP doesn't make mistakes so its unlikely they'll learn anything.

"Let's face it, the NDP ran an awful campaign."

They sure did. The Campaign was so bad the majority of voters stayed home. Now its the Blame someone else game.

Lets blame Former NDP AG Gablemann. His public statements still resonates with me.
(1) We (The NDP) are under no illusion we'll ever be elected again so taking that into account were going to make sure whatever we do cannot be undone.
(2)Logging companies as we know them will be in the waste paper basket within the next decade.

The BC NDP's visionary planning seems to be working.

Gordon Campbell - NDP's Best Friend...

The NDP should be very happy the they achieved 42%. That's much higher than most prognosticators ever expected.

The reason? Gordon Campbell. He's a lightning rod for negative reaction for years and one can read same negative reaction on the Tyee ad nauseum.

Campbell has very negative numbers on many matters and has turned off the female vote as witnessed by the Ipsos/Mustel voting demographics.

Plus idiotic policies... too high tax cuts after 2001 resulting in deep cuts... the carbon tax ... the $8.oo minimum wage and on and on.

Campbell won't be around in 2013 though. Ya can bank on it. I'm still placing my money on Surrey mayor Dianne Watts as his replacement... she's attracted many centre-left New Democrats to her Surrey First municipal party... Judy Villeneuve comes to mind.

It is simple and don't complicate it.

None of the analysis is worth a pinch of crap unless you first admit first that Gordo got a free ride from CanWest. I know what Laurier and Luke and the rest will say, but it is the truth and I don't fall for these complicated theories one bit.

The Campbell strategy

The Campbell Liberals' strategy is to mix enough good with bad, that while voters may get annoyed, they will not get angry enough to rush off to the polls and boot you out of office. Look at the last four Vancouver elections to see what happens to voter turnout when people get angry.

The carbon tax is a brilliant spin strategy. Shallow and flawed, it scooped the NDP and the Green Party and blinded the MSM and many others. It has given the clever backroom boys and girls lots of opportunities to redesign the economy around NeoCon principles that are now thoroughly discredited.

Four years from now, you can look back at 12 years of Campbellism and see how they chipped away at the public sector to create a bigger private sector that will support them politically, financially and with campaign workers.

Campbell

Campbell has bad reactions because he's a terrible leader and incapable of working with anyone except sycophants.

The fact Campbell won another term - when the electorate could have chosen a competent, honest and ethical person to lead this province through the next four difficult years is incompehensible.

Either the populace is 'Non compos mentis' or unconscious.

Take your pick - the population has chosen theirs and the province will be the worst for it.

RossK

I thought Martin, above, made a very good point:

"I think the BC Liberals won despite these ads, not because of them...."

I mean, imagine if there had been, say, three TeeVee debates....

_____
As for Mr. L. Skywalker....

"The NDP should be very happy the they achieved 42%. That's much higher than most prognosticators ever expected."

Cheese Willickers.

Wasn't 42% within the MOE of both post-writ-dropped AReid polls?

Having said that, it was great to read what Mr. S had to say about his view of Mr. Campbell's deficiencies; the lapse into genuineness, whether intended or not, was duly noted as a significant positive over in this corner at least - thanks for that.

______

Finally, regarding those tight ridings where there was swing potential, as described by Mr. McMartin in the post at hand.....

Does anyone else think that the outcome might have been different in some of those ridings if a significant number of folks on the lower rung of the socioeconomic ladder not been effectively disenfranchised by the ID law portion of the egregious Bill 42?

.

Jail and GORDO

All the NDP had to do this election is stand around on street corners with signs that said
" WHEN WILL GORDON CAMPBELL GO TO JAIL ?"

Nobody had to say a word other than to tell the news media to ASK GORDO.

The sheep and unfortunately the people that didn't vote for this bum will be a lot poorer after the next four years. Get out the vasciline, we're all going to need it.

Wouldn't matter what strategy

It wouldn't matter one wit what strategy Campbell used. With the media fawning all over him and never reporting on anything that might make him look bad he'll get his 45% regardless. It might be different if the right wing vote was split but that is not going to happen. The corporate interests won't let it and they've been calling the shots ever since they took the party from Gordon Wilson and transformed it into this neocon bunch of crooks.

RossK

"Does anyone else think that the outcome might have been different in some of those ridings if a significant number of folks on the lower rung of the socioeconomic ladder not been effectively disenfranchised by the ID law portion of the egregious Bill 42?"

That's a great point. I doubt the number of voters who were turned away for not meeting the ID requirements was recorded. I, for one, would like to know how many were.

This is the part of Bill 42 that was vastly under reported and scrutinized in the lead up to the election.

The ndp started slow but did

The ndp started slow but did well in getting the momentum the final two weeks.
All three leaders were uninspiring and the
initial results certainly reflect this in
a 48% turn out of eligible voters.

Wilfred Laurier's comment on the ndp not
faulting themselves for losing elections
isn't true. They are as good as any party
at dumping leaders. The criticism that
thousands of centre-left people direct at
Canwest-Global is justified. That network
displayed the same negative bias toward the
federal liberal party in the fall election
as they do every four years to the BC ndp.

I think most ndp voters know they weren't
able to get about 50,000 voters from 2005
to the polls this year. There are many
reasons for this and the party has to be
better at identifying and keeping ALL of
it's support. Despite this they did gain
slightly in their share of the vote.

The BC liberals do have more money to poll
at the riding level; gaining the advantage
on where to put more resources. The ndp
know they have to develop a broad base of
donors giving smaller amounts similar to
the U.S. democratic party.

They have four more years to work on these
issues.

The fact is the Liberals

The fact is the Liberals will have a new leader in 4 years and as long as there is not a real 3rd party to take votes from the lieberals the NDP will never get in again in this province. They need the split on the right.

If Diane Watts does become Liberal leader like Skywalker says, she will make Campbell look like an amateur when it comes to big business. Big Business owns her in Surrey.

Yes she won re election but she was backed by business and the fellow she ran against was basically a 'no name' with no money unlike the Big Business money Watts got.

Just look at all the development and destruction in Surrey. Latimer lake devastation comes to mind as well. Man she is El Gordo 100 fold....

Re: The Bill 42 Voter Suppression Project

verso--

...More than who got turned away, what really matters is who never even bothered to show up ...

.

civil disobedience...

With the erosion of democracy, and so much at stake, mass civil disobedience seems to be the only option left to resist and stop the BC Liberals from doing irreversible damage to this province and its citizens.

No non-fiction category

An excellent article, Will McMartin.

Especially the reminder of how in 2001 the defeated NDP left the BC Liberals what was then the largest surplus in BC history.

And how this big surplus was intentionally spun into a big deficit by the premier's "hand-picked" "fiscal review" panel.

And how the mainstream media helped in the dissemination of this "work of pure fiction."

"Pure fiction" it was....and never described better, by the way.

Now,

Eight years on,

All is pure fiction.

Green power fiction.

Strong Economy fiction.

990 year fiction.

Ever new categories

For ever new lies.

That they set the clock at 990 years

Surely

Must tell us

Just how far

And for how long

They are willing to go

In their purely fictional pursuits.

Jim

Campbell is not unpopular regardless of what poles have to say. The electorate has elected him three times in a row now.

The NDP are not gaining any ground and why do you suppose that is? There is nothing "new' nor relevant about them.

They have, and always will be the party of big unions, which are just as unsavory as big business. In the end the poor goose, just has to decide which party won't 'pluck' them too badly.

G West

A clarification, please. Rather than jump to conclusions and also risk your wrath,

quote:
"Take your pick - the population has chosen theirs and the province will be the worst for it."

Is that the 'worst' province or did you mean BC will, in your estimation, become worse?

The NDP will have to drop the 'working-class' banner it has and it will have to ask the unions to restrain from blanket negative campaigning (Campbell Eats Children) since it either backfires or just turns people off and they don't vote.

The Greens, The P.A.B., and Bill 42

I'd like to congratulate the large percentage of British Columbians who fought the good fight trying to save the environment we love.

We fought a good fight. But the odds were overwhelming. In my view, three things made the task unreachable this time around.

The Greens, flying under a false flag, made a critically negative difference. What Ralph Nader did for George W. Bush, the "Greens" did for Gordo.

The Public Affairs Bureau with its $31million a year budget has been electioneering for Gordo at public expense for longer than we knew it existed. The PAB was a very difficult antagonist.

And the final, cruel touch was Bill 42 which disenfranchised so many voters.

Many people gave up and stayed away from voting. Some angrily spoiled their ballots in protest.

But many people fought the election campaign all the way, and for that they deserve big, beautiful bouquets.

But G,

None of that matters. The main thing Gordo does is that he socks it to a lot of people whom those who vote for him want him to sock it to. Has it not dawned on you yet, that a lot of people in this province just plain don't like a lot of other people. There are a lot of smug jerks in this corner of the world, who thrive on having their basest instincts acted out right in front of them. In fact, the truth is, that whenever a homeless person gets done away with because of some buraucratic or law enforcement- based high-handedness, some people rejoice, for 'who needs them?'

How do I know this? Because if it weren't like that, there would be rioting in the streets a lot more than there is. Action speaks louder than words...

It would be so handy to blame things on press and strategies, but that's just not it. We aren't that gullible, we're just totally not our brothers' keepers.

Unions 'sock it to us' just as bad as big business

Don't you think the big unions with over the moon wages for civil service, teachers, health care etc. 'sock it to the general public'?

They do have the public over the barrel and get pretty much whatever they demand.

Why do you think they support the NDP??

jimorsheryl

I don't believe most people think teachers and nurses are overpaid. Its not like they're bringing down hockey player salaries.

I admit I was appalled at how the older women who cleaned hospitals were attacked and humiliated by the Liberals. I wonder what that's like hearing from every speaker at the podium and the columnists of the Sun and Province that you're all overpaid and that we could replace you with trained monkeys? Wages were certainly lowered, cleaning standards went down and yet we don't pay them directly, we pay them now through a private company who takes a big profit for doing sweet nothing.

But then the Liberals have always looked down their noses at people that actually work.

dorothy

I agree completely.

My post was a specific response to one or another of the usual suspects around here.

There are some possible conclusions (in my view):
1. Ignorance and stupidity (combined with a lack of education on the part of a sufficiently large cohort of voters who - wittingly or not - have the power to change things for the better); and

2. A version of class war - the kind of thing Warren Buffett talks about - which uses entrenched elitist power and influence to further the cause of the few over the many is the central 'intellectual' conceit of this outfit - or at least in so far as such a thing exists; therefore

3. The way to fight this battle is through argument and debate - education and persuasion if you prefer....but, in the political sphere, it's unlikely that change will happen without a real fight. In a real fight, you don't tie one hand behind your back.

Carole James - as I wrote above - was tough, but not tough enough.

The campaign should have attacked Campbell's policies, his failures, his peccadilloes and his shortcomings - not least the man's hubris and his practice of running a one-man government.

We all know there was never a moment when Campbell's forces were not profane, inaccurate, bloody minded and personal.

Politics is war. The problem wasn't lacking the truth - the problem was that James wasn't prepared to tell it all.

G West quote.

How true-
"We all know there was never a moment when Campbell's forces were not profane, inaccurate, bloody minded and personal."

In Delta South, a Wally Oppal's campaign flyer featured photos of folks who did not give permission for him to use and definitely were not BC Liberals supporters but known in this community for their good works.
Calls to his office to complain were never returned.

When asked about the so called dirty level of campaigning here, his comment? I have a "high level" of campaigning.

They lie, they don't care and they are our Government.

And so here we go socking it...

"Don't you think the big unions with over the moon wages for civil service, teachers, health care etc. 'sock it to the general public'?

They do have the public over the barrel and get pretty much whatever they demand."

No, actually, I don't think so. I don't know what you consider to be 'over the moon', but being on the receiving end of a health care union wage, and considering that you have to keep yourself in a state of health and functionality, where you literally don't have a single bad day, because someone's life and welfare could be in the balance, you can go pretty quickly through that relatively moderate wad of cash.

You will, however, notice that if you follow the link below, there are perhaps a few in there you might consider to be described by that famous jump, but none of these people are in a union, at least not one that is associated with the NDP.

http://www.phsa.ca/NR/rdonlyres/BC2F2E1D-3666-489E-81F2-76C24EB32631/30590/Part11EmployeeSalariesExpensesexceeding75kl_w_cont.pdf

As for who has who over a barrel, I suggest you familiarize yourself with the concept of essential services and the rules for obligation to provide them. The health care unions can, at best, inconvenience the public legally, certainly not have anyone 'over a barrel'.

southdeltawalker - thanks

One small consolation - devoutly to be wished prior to the final count - is that Oppal will be forced into retirement...

If the wages had gone up

If the wages had gone up over the 1,000% with the cost of living in the past 35 years, the minimum wage should be at least $20/hr and some trades should get over $50/hr.

50 years ago carpenters were getting $2./hr and electricians, the highest paid at the time, $2.20.

But house prices started at $2,000 and they could buy a very good house in Vancouver for $5,000. and a family of 5 could feed themselves very well for under $20/wk.

Gas was about $.27 cents a gallon, a VW was $1,200. a Morris Minor $1,300. and American cars started under $2,000.

Compare this with the cost of living and wages today. Every time we go shopping, prices are up, not only by a few cents, but by .50 cents, a Dollar a and many doubled in the past year.

Bought our usual maple syrup that used to cost $10. a year ago,now for $20.The contents have been watered up, when compared to what was left in the old bottle, which means an inflated price of probably 200% within a year and not into the pockets of the unionists.

Ranchers are going broke all over BC and Canada, because of the price fixings by the corporate mafia, while the prices in the stores are up.

The top 100 of Canadian executives stole over $10. million each from the public last year, a certain bank CEO over $42. million, or over $23,000/hr. and yet we keep hearing these hysterical screams about "unions".

Where were the unions in this last campaign? Nowhere. A very large number of now unemployed unionists in this area have voted BCLib.

Which means that the "business leaders" have done a better job than the "union bosses".

Ed Deak. Big Lake.

Percieved legitamacy only concern

All the hand wringers can f*^k off!

YOu should have voted for STV if you think the current system is flawed and no longer legitimate because less than half the eligible voters (sheep) bother to take part in the once every 4 years 'duty'

I am joining the ranks of I do not give a f%^k; and I will no longer contribute to the (il) legitimacy of the current adversarial my interest over your interest crappy system.

It is a political industry (as is Separation in Quebec) of which I want no more part of (age 48!)

The only elections I will vote in now are municipal ones where the politicians (most) have no party affiliation (until they run for provincial politics!) and they are easier to find to talk to!

Would Gordon Campbell accept the Premiership if an election was held and only a 1000 eligible voters bothered to cast a ballot for him and yet he won?

Can't wait to hear all the hand wringing once Gordo dismantles the province and hopefully is caused to testify!

ANd be sure to be explicit in your questions because we see how Brian (Ly'n) Mulroney plays the game (he asked if i knew Karl-Heinz, not whether I had business dealings with him!)!

Liberals's biggest gamble paid off?

What gamble? It was in the bag when the corporate media joined it. Nothing complicated or gambling about that.

Whining and Aging Leftie Blame Game

Here's an interesting comment from a poster on the Georgia Straight:

"“I think it’s because Gordon Campbell has an open mind. His mind is more open than the union mentality we’ve all grown up with. I grew up in a small town, and my parents were IWA and HEU members. My dad, he’s a [B.C.] Liberal now too. B.C. is doing better than any province in Canada right now.”"

The next generation won't suck up to the withering negativism.

greenies for gordo postscipt.

From Angus reid's last preelection poll

“uncertain Green voters are twice as likely to list the NDP as their second choice (36%) than the BC Liberals (17%)”

If we run these numbers (69/31) riding by riding through the latest results we get Liberals 45 ND 40 assuming a simple collapse in the Green vote - say all the Greenies withdrawing their candidacies. However if the Green's and NDP had come to some kind of Israeli type accommodation, which presumably would have included the NDP espousing some form of carbon tax Reids 69/31 vote split would only have had to change to 76/34 for an NDP/Green coalition win.

The NDP forgot that that Green voters are mostly idiots who haven't had an original thought all their lives and when a mainstream media celib says something it must be true. DaGucci. Berman, Weaver, Pembina and Harcourt must be permanently ostracized from the Green and progressive movements and if possible financially ruined by their odious sellout.

Had somebody in the NDP campaign had beaten some sense into Carole James and/or Gerry Scott, they would had realized that the Green factor was the key to a win and dumped the carbon tax thing right away. That Campbell's carbon tax was simply a method of funneling campaign donations to humongous bank and had utterly no effect on carbon consumption was logic. Dispute their love of Spock, the fevered mind of a Greenieis utterly incapable of logical thought

The Green's are universally despised in the US after their leader Ralph Nader elected George Bush and sent the greatest Green politician the world has known Al Gore to the sidelines. The NDP need to study how progressive leaders decimated the American Green party.

As much as I shudder to

As much as I shudder to admit it, Wilf is right about one thing, the co-campaign managers of the NDP campaign need to hit the waste basket, yesterday. They did a terrible job.

Otherwise, however, I disagree with him. On the ground the NDP ran a pretty good campaign. If Canwest Global hadn't been shilling for the Liberals the whole time the results would have been a lot closer.

I'm know other mistakes were made, but really, other than the leaders of the central campaign being washed up hacks who were risk averse and prone to bureaucratize EVERYTHING, the NDP did well. Unfortunately we just couldn't afford to have those washed up hacks at the helm. Plus it appeared they did no organizing between the elections. What a bummer.

Carole did a fantastic job. I am one NDP member who is praying for her to stay on board as leader.

Can the NDP expand its base?

I think the article makes many good points. But I think it is likely the NDP wou8ld have fallen short of government, even with a better focussed campaign.

Moe Sihota on CBC radio on election night suggested the NDP needs to find a way to "grow its base" and suggested it needs to be more friendly to small business and should ditch the sex and ethnic based quotas for candidates. I am not a huge Sihota fan, but I thik he was right about both.

I am intrigued by the suggestion of Diane Watts as next Liberal leader. I think it might be a good fit as I think she is a "concensus builder" and obviously has some pretty savy political instincts. I don't know if the Liberals would go for an outsider but she would be an interesting chice (in my mind, a far better choice than Carole Taylor).

I really think that factions of the NDP membership have to find a way out of this fight they keep waging with environmentalists, that I recall exploded when Glen Clark referred to them as "Enemies of BC". (Was he advised on this tactic by our favorite NDPer, Bill Tielman?? -- just curious)

I do agree that the Green Party is going nowhere in this province and will likely have extreme difficulty ever electing an MLA without some form of proportional representation which seems highly unlikely to happen in the foreseeable future.

It seems rather pointless engageing ..

...in a debate around the election results with those that were on the winning track from the beginning and now attempt to offer their advice on what the NDP should or should not do. I listened to some of the lies from the Liberals so no they were not running dignified campaign. Claiming in whatever way that BC is strong when the economy is not is the ultimate. When anyone other than them speaks the truth it is whining. Well from their privileged position with a media that's as devious as the liberals they support that is no surprise.

It's all about the agenda to emasculate the left so that it is no different than the right - something like Republicans and Democrats in the U.S. Listening to them is pointless unless you feel that the NDP should stop the general increas in benefits to the elite and screw the labour and the classes below them. That's why people don't bother voting. The choices are not clear enough and all yopu hear from Laurier, Realisticman and Luke is the same old, "Become like us if you want to win." They can do that because the left is still scared S&#tless of the media and what power they have.

If the NDP does not start taking off the gloves now with Campbell and start acting like an opposition with a thirst for political blood, and to hell with the CanWest clowns, then they will languish in opposition.

I am thoroughly disgusted with local the NDP Member's lack of effort. I don't think I once got a general letter explaining what he was doing on our behalf. If they were all deadbeats like that and hoped nice Carole would pull it off in the end, no damn wonder they only got their jobs back and nothing will change for the rest of us for another four years.

Rafe Maier wrote a piece a while ago about how easy Gordo had it in the Legislature. Maybe some of the opposition should start earning their keep and we pay less attention to the self seving advice from the few on this site who enjoy the fruits of a biased, useless corporate media.

Good Points..

Skywalker, you make some good points. The major problem the NDP has is incestuous amplification. All the Faithful sit in a room together and agree on everything and think that they cannot possibly lose the next election because they are the purveyors of All that is Righteous and Good. They then sit on their fannies and "wait for the government to be voted out" because, in their incestuous way, they have decided that is how governments change. Therefore, since it is 100% certain that the NDP will win the next election, it is better to sit quietly and not make any firm commitments in case you have to honour them. This is why Campbell got a cakewalk in the Legislature, Rafe had it right on this one.

Another problem with the NDP is it's proclivity to keep rehiring people who have failed them. Gerry Scott and Tieleman are prime examples. By they way the lefties squealed you'd think that the NDP had Mel Lehman elected for sure yet the NDP lost in Point Grey bigger than they did in 1996. This from a party hanger on who has shilled for them for years and taken some nice fat paydays off of the party. He did not do this for free, he go paid and he got smoked. The guy should be tossed like yesterday's meatballs because as much as he shills, he doesn't produce votes.

Finally, the NDP has to realise they are up against a formidable and well financed Liberal campaign team. They have boatloads of campaign workers, most of them very young and tech savvy. They KNOW how to win elections, they have a proven track record.

Will the NDP learn? Well, they didn't learn in 2005. They cannot listen to anyone outside their tiny little incestuous and end up snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. Just look at the socialist blather posted here. That stuff went out in the 1960s yet the Faithful are still bonded to it like a fly to you know what. Things have to change in the BC NDP. It needs to be less of an interest group for Ken Shields and more of an inclusive party in order to get the votes it needs. For proof of this, just look at the attacks in the Greens above.

Skywalker

Many NDPers have given up on voting. Perhaps in the next election there won't be an NDP and instead we'll have a one party state and it'll be endorsed by a turnout of around 25%. Or the Libs will split in half and we'll still have a turnout of 25%.

Its unfortunate it came to this but I'm seeing a lot of comments on different sites where people say that's it for them.

Absurd

The suggestion that left-wing voters are monolithic in their views, parroting the party line against all evidence and victims of some kind of group think is so absurd it beggars the imagination.

The only generalization one can make about left wingers and their attitudes would be, from my experience, that they have much better parties.

Wilf

Thanks for agreeing with me but I didn't say that. Its not the case people aren't voting NDP, the problem is they aren't voting at all.

People have given up not on the NDP but on political parties and elections.

Without a doubt many of those non-voters might at one time have leaned NDP but as Luke pointed out, the biggest drops in turnout were in strong Liberal ridings. Which tells me that those are people who think their vote doesn't matter.

CanWest says low turnout means everyone is happy with the status quo. Of course these are the same people that think less subscriptions means everyone is happy with their paper too.

Unlike CanWest I think people are giving up on politics because it doesn't lead to change and doesn't address their problems.

So Which Voters Stayed Home? - One Case Scenario...

Pitt Meadows-Maple Ridge-Mission:

Federal Riding:

Con: 26,552
NDP: 16,915
Green: 3,936
Lib: 3,400
Total: 50,803

Pitt Meadows-Maple Ridge and Maple Ridge Mission

(provincial ridings - basically in same boundary as the one federal seat)

Lib: 17,455
NDP: 17,427
Green: 2,364
Total: 37,246

It looks like the provincial NDP kept their federal vote and some federal Libs, but most interesting is that the provincial Libs were 9,000 votes short of the federal Con tally.

Now what that tells me is that NDP voters went to the polls but Lib/Con voters stayed home in droves!

It certainly seems that those Mustel and Ipsos polls were right with regards to overall voter intention... but the voters that turned out were NDP... at least in those two provincial ridings.

Luke

I'm not going to argue one way or the other with your point but I will say that's bad methodology as the ridings are different and I doubt people only started getting turned off since the Fall.

If the ridings hadn't changed we could simply compare turnout rates in each riding going back to the 60's and see if there's any difference in seats where one side or the other always wins or is a swing seat.

Voting for Vampires is Never a Good Thing

As VivianLea writes:

Quote:

"but soon it may not matter, because global warming and salmon and rivers are politics instead of lifeblood..."

Yup.

Without lifeblood we got nothing.

And ours is dwindling badly....with greedy corporate vampires sucking life from this planet at every turn.

We need a helluva lot more of Zorba in our politics...and a lot less dead brittle wood. Then this sinking ship might stand a chance of making it to shore....guided by a wisdom that sees the real value and worth in real live things...and that dares to dance with the sheer joy and camaraderie of being alive.

Instead on May 12th, (backed by a "strong" army from the duplicitous Public Affairs Wasteland.... and an equally duplicitous and boring MSM special mercenary force of "trusted" soldiers), the dead world won....

Just so you know who some of you voted for...

If Zorba is listening, call home.

We need you.

Luke

Interesting comparison of federal and provincial voters in Maple Ridge. You got me to thinking about overall results, which were...

2008 federal election in BC.
Cons -- 797,177
NDP -- 467,882
Libs -- 346,344
Greens -- 168,282
TOTAL VOTES -- 1,793,400

2009 BC provincial election
BC Libs -- 713,788
NDP -- 650,770
Greens -- 125,151
BC Cons -- 32,653
TOTAL VOTES -- 1,549,056

Combined federal Tories and Grits got more than 1.1 million, but BC Libs took just 800,000.

In fact, Gordon Campbell's Liberals got 83,000 fewer votes than Stephen Harper's Tories!

B.C. NDP increased 183,000 -- with most of that coming from federal Libs?

And maybe some from federal Greens... B.C. Greens got 43,000 fewer votes than their national counterparts.

Overall, provincial vote was down by 245,000 compared to federal campaign.

It looks like BC Libs and B.C. Greens did relatively worse than their federal cousins, and the NDP fared less badly. That's just a preliminary assessment at any rate.

That's no problem!

"Campbell has bad reactions because he's a terrible leader and incapable of working with anyone except sycophants."

But see, this is where the Midgaard serpent meets its other end and starts chewing on it. What has our public education system been doing for the past few decades? Churning out sychophants, that's what. It has a knack for beating the stuffing out of its subjects and then teaching them to look for validation outside themselves, following and sucking up to those who can cook up a good mythology of their own eminence. Why else can you get anyone to look at dreary drivel like all these 'idol' shows??

Until we manage to effect that shift in our culture that will value people who can stand on their own feet and are capable of original thought instead of learned helplessness, only then will people like Cambell run out of followers. For now, there is no lack of slavering dogs, who wait for someone to take them to the money river, and Campbell knows how to deliver, carefully measured out to how little will keep each compadre on his coattails.

It seems to me, that it all starts with who we are before we hit our fifth birthday. Beyond that point, everything we do to make things better can only be band-aid. Does anyone not understand that this is about souls, and the quality of them??

dorothy

You can't blame the teachers for kids being overwhelmed and indoctrinated by right-wing popular culture. They only have them for a few hundred hours a year.

I was saved from terrible

I was saved from terrible upbringing by public school and the public library.

It isn't the fault of teachers, it is the whole society we live in, designed to dumb down our dear children, to grind every spiritual impulse from their little bones.

I was born with the miraculous adaptation of preferring books to television, lucky me, that is why the teachers and libraries were able to get to me.

Tick-tock. Time is the real wealth.

I read a comment somewhere on The Tyee that shares in Plutonic Power went up 20% after news that Gordo's Liberals won the election.

All the CEO crew that think they will profit from this election just ain't paying attention. The "best before" date of the stolen millions from the public purse is almost up.

It's going to be a very short party.

The thing is, our serious lack of time to remedy this global environmental crisis is making monetary measurements meaningless, and irrelevant, more than that.... obsolete.

Time is the real wealth ....and it is running out fast....even faster now since the re-election of Gordon Campbell on May 12th.

His pretend environmental and economic policies and his superficial PR games will run the sand right out of the hourglass.

d-e-l-a-y

So, one more twist in the Basi/Wirk trial?
good chance the new judge will demand to hear the evidence repeated all over.
Maybe the case will be cleared just after the NEXT election?

Reply to Frank and Moonbug:

I hear you. And I deliberately did not blame teachers, for I know quite well they are faced with a demand to swim upstream. I certainly recognize that they may save some kids and trash others. In the case of my own kids, a nasty cocktail of economics and demography made their school life Hel, and so I am not necessarily a good judge of the system in the more technical sense. My belief is, that far more of the stuff that goes on in schools should be standardized across the province, as this would take some load off the shoulders of teachers and might save the weaker among them from messing up. My kids hit a rural school and discovered, for instance, that you can use a textbook in a progressive fashion, from cover to cover, as the notion in the boonies was’ is there any other way?’; in the big city, they had been used to skipping, passing, and seeing half of the book replaced with printed out gobbledygook suiting the politics of the day better, a very disjointed attempt at a learning process.

Now I was talking about the culture, and it does of course weasel into the schools, too. They are not helping, but are most often going with the flow. There also is a built-in mean-spiritedness as there is in all public service, maybe even a bit of closet Christianity, and somehow it results in the kids being turned out with an understanding that they are nothing in and of themselves, and keeping their head low and letting themselves be guided by those more capable and of more consequence is the best approach to life. Everywhere in this society there is a screaming shortage of capable leadership. And I am not talking about people good at strong-arming the already programmed. Any dumb fear-monger can do that. I am talking about people who can inspire confidence and inspire others to try to excel, and inspire a sense of purpose. People we would want to elect, not out of fear and lesser loathing, but out of respect and maybe even reverence. It has been said that good leaders can be recognized by the fact that they generate other good leaders. What our so-called leaders do now is their level best to keep people in the dirt, so that they won’t offer any competition or raise their heads where it could be inconvenient.

like that very much, Dorothy

Yes, the test of leaders is that their followers become leaders, and for teachers, that their students become teachers...in some sense or another.

Thanks, and another thing

I have been meaning to take up is this popular mythology that NDP is 'run by unions', 'owned by unions', etc., etc.

This crops up and never gets questioned. Until some time in the beginning of Carole James' leadership, union reps had places in the party's leadership. But that was dealt with and changed. What evidence do we now have, that unions own or run NDP?? My own union is equally supportive of all poltical involvements for its members as in 'do something, anything, to contribute to how your local community works', but without partisan bias. I know that the membership would riot if anything else were the case. I am sure there are other unions which are more partisan, but do they dictate policies to the NDP, or is that just a tired old adage that has acutally no longer any truth to it?? I happen to know what that really looks like. Back in the day in Europe, my father was a union/party man, out every May 1st waving the red banners. I see nothing of that culture at play in BC here and now.

I suppose that because NDP is championing stuff like the living wage and the literal equality for all, some people think that must be unions dictating to them. How about common decency?? Well, I know that some people, cynically, think that that motivates no one, but bully for them. They haven't dicovered the true cost of wasting people. Allow me one didactic quote: "We have, then, come far in wealth, when few have too much and even fewer have too little!" From a national anthem of that country, where the voter turnout is solidly around 85%, from 1943 till now.

Don't get me wrong. I love this country with a passion, which is precisely why I think it deserves to be filled with something better than we are adding up to right now.

'land-pimp' Premier

This is from a post on Opinion 250 on the "Friday Free for All" talking about the Fast Ferries and Campbell in general.

Lynn, your remark reminded me of this. It was posted by "socredible." I corrected a spelling error.

"The NDP would've been far wiser to have had one ship built first, and identified the technical problems that are bound to show up with anything new and untried. Rather than building three at once, and compounding any design failures.

But at least they were BUILT IN BC! The work and wages stayed HERE. The shipyards, their suppliers, their employees, all paid a multiplicity of taxes here on every dollar that they earned, and then some.

What did we get back in taxes, or any other way, from the Germans when the new "Weinerschnitzel class" tubs were made there?

More sales of large chunks of 'recreational' Chilcotin real estate to absentee European landlords at inflated prices? And larger future property tax bills for our own legitimate, working ranchers as a result?

What else would we expect from a 'land-pimp' Premier who sees every rise in price as a sign of prosperity? Rather than what it really is to the general public that always ends up being disadvantaged because of it ~ straight inflation."

At

http://www.opinion250.com/blog/view/12861/1/friday+free+for+all+-+may+15th%2c+2009?

"land-pimp" says it well

It is good to hear from you again, North Of Hope.

An excellent comment that really nails it.

We don't have governance in this province we just have one big real estate agency.... with government ministries providing convenient insider access to our most valued resources, farmland , waterfront, rivers... and on and on.

Just check out the hundreds of thousands of dollars that went to "real estate advisors" for the sale of BC Rail....and the clause that "forces" (haha!) CN to buy rail land for the "exorbitant" price of one dollar. As Joy MacPhail said once in the legislature (paraphrasing here) "please, please, force me, too, to buy rail land for a dollar!"

And our priceless rivers not only diverted but auctioned off for a measly ten thousand dollar licence....with millions upon millions return in profits to IPP's. And our hydro prices to rise sharply .... just like the property taxes of working ranchers mentioned in your quote.

The people of this province are being left with nothing while our tax dollars are subsidizing "special corporate interests" and rampant privatization.

We have become a corporate welfare state. Big Time.

It is a massive betrayal of our rights as citizens of this province.

It is extremely devious.

It is sheer insanity.

Which tells us a lot about the people now running this province.

NDP opposition to the carbon tax is "playing it safe"?

If you say so, McMartin.

The belt-tightening has already started...

B.C. government asks employees to take unpaid vacations

http://www.theprovince.com/Business/government+asks+employees+take+unpaid+vacations/1601865/story.html

BY ROB SHAW, VICTORIA TIMES COLONIST MAY 15, 2009 COMMENTS (51)

VICTORIA — The B.C. government is asking thousands of employees to consider taking unpaid time off in order to save the province money and avoid possible civil-service layoffs.

After months of negotiating with unions on ways to prevent job losses, the government Friday unveiled a 10-week pilot program to voluntary reduced workweeks.

Employees can take 20 per cent of their normal work time as an unpaid leave of absence. For a full-time public servant, that translates into one day per week from June 29 to Sept. 4.

The province is looking at ways to save money as it undergoes dramatic internal belt-tightening in the wake of the economic slump and a deficit budget tabled earlier this year.

“The idea originated with employees,” said Kim Henderson, head of the B.C. government’s workforce planning and leadership secretariat.

“We had a lot of employees talking about the benefit of reduced workweeks, from the benefit of work-life balance but also the benefit of saving dollars in the public service to avoid future layoffs.”

(more at website...)

Rae days?

"The B.C. government is asking thousands of employees to consider taking unpaid time off in order to save the province money"

I wonder if the media will call them "Campbell days"?

No, probably not.

Campbell days.

Love it. Defined as: "The day to stay home from work just so you can do a weeks work in 4/5 of the time but get paid 4/5 salary."

Maybe Campbell could claw back the tax breaks for the rich that he so generously handed out when the world commodity prices were so high.

Interesting numbers

"Key to victory: 4,126 votes

The NDP, which won 36 of 85 seats in Tuesday's election, needed 4,126 more votes to secure a majority.
Riding Liberal candidate # votes NDP candidate # votes Margin
Maple Ridge-Mission Marc Dalton 8,393 Mike Bocking 8,195 198
Saanich North and the Islands Murray Coell 12,513 Gary Holman 12,118 395
Oak Bay-Gordon Head Ida Chong 11,266 Jessica Van der Veen 10,736 530
Kamloops-North Thompson Terry Lake 9,351 Doug Brown 8,798 553
Burnaby-Lougheed Harry Bloy 8,544 Jaynie Clark 7,732 812
Boundary-Similkameen John Slater 6,439 Lakhvinder Jhaj 5,626 813
Burnaby North Richard Lee 9,377 Mondee Redman 8,552 825"

From this article in the Glob & Mire

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20090516.BCELECTION16ART2130/TPStory/TPNational/BritishColumbia/

Don't buy it!

"..unpaid time off in order to save the province money and avoid possible civil-service layoffs."

The province doesn't care about layoffs and the consequences to the laid-off people. They care about keeping the labor force in place, so it will be cheap and convenient to adjust the size up again when needed. We should not fall for this gimmick, but should stand our ground in refusing cuts and job-sharing nonsense, so that people can be laid off. Those who then get laid off should do everything in their power to not stand outside the gate nicely waiting for the doors to open again, but should be non-obliging and get the hel into something else to do.

It is vitally important that we not oblige the corporate warlords and their pimps in this. The pressure must be kept on; we should not tamely absorb their villainy and grin and bear it. This is about our quality of life and right to have any degree of self-determination into a very long future. The bitter irony of this is that when there is enough work and more to go around, it is virtually impossible for a beleaguered civil servant to get unpaid leave, due to 'operational needs'.

Personally, I believe we are seeing the result of everyone's trip to the Beijing Olympics, where merchant's delivery people could 'be told' to not enter the city for two weeks, and workers could be shuffled and dealt like a deck of cards to where the 'big ones' needed them the most. I remember some moans and sighs about how lovely it would be to have such a 'command economy'. Well, only in China...

For added understanding of the issues involved, please check out some of the items on this web site:

http://dieoff.org/

Particularly this article:

http://dieoff.org/page80.htm

It is about behaving more intelligently than reindeer, Rudolph notwithstanding. If the bobbleheads will not see sense, then we on the factory floor must be its guardians.

Gender

Charlie Smith in the Georgia Straight, "10 reasons why the B.C. Liberals won the provincial election" [http://www.straight.com/article-220170/10-reasons-why-bc-liberals-won-provincial-election] noted "Female party leaders rarely fare very well in provincial politics".

In all the discussion I've seen over the last few days, no one else has touched on the gender issue. I think it is a factor.

View from a propaganda master... Herman Goering

"But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."

-- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials

[http://www.snopes.com/quotes/goering.asp]

Rather fitting, is it not?

Civil service 4 day week

I told you so: In my posts before the election, I noted that an NDP government would raise taxes and a Liberal one would cut services.

In any event, I do not think this will be seen as a very bad policy by the government employees. As I understand the proposal, it will be voluntary and will only be for the summer months. In the current fast paced work environment, many people will welcome an extra day off to enjoy the summer. I know in my workplace, lots of workers would be interested in having more free time even if it means less take home pay.