See you at Canada Place tonight

6pm is when the rally for the coalition begins; I hope we march from the nice indoor hall. Murray is right to urge us to drop everything and fight for what we still have and what Harper hasn't been able to destroy

...namely the country...

If Harper survives this

The enormous disappointment (on the scale of the shock when the Yanks re-elected Bush) might finally push regular folks (like me) over the edge.
If the mish mash Coelition has their way with Michell Jean we could be expected to sit back and hope for some minor improvement in our future outlook.
From what I find the Neo Cons are proposing John Baird to replace Harper.

I'm pouring 13 cubic yards of concrete tomorrow. I would not want any of these people even attending this ceremony, let alone running the Pump truck or driving the Redimix delivery truck.

What in this world have these people to do with actual REALITY?
This (real) stuff - concrete - sets hard in less than an hour.
If what I do is not in the correct place I live with that

Harper's Wrecking Crew

The ReformaTory cabal is anti-democratic and anti-Canadian.

Many of the writers and posters here complain when liberals and Tories (remember us ?) cut programme spending and taxes but what Harper has wrought is unprecedented.

By way of analogy :

The government cash-flow taps often got turned down to a drizzle - or less - in the Lib/Con budgets.

Now Steve the Plumber has left the taps in place, but cut the water supply. He's sold the pipes for the copper.

OilbertaRedTory

"Sell the pipes"? He wouldn't DARE do that, would he?

GOT it !!!!

You hit the nail right on the head. Harper benefits by being a leader in a coutry where politicians see each other as "ladies and Gentlemen". Harper had been consistent in his advocacy of the extreme right agenda until he became leader of the conservatives. He HAS NOT EVOLVED. This whole thing is Harper's attempt to wipe out the opposition, all opposition, so that he can change Canadian society to what he wants. He has shown total contempt for the country, for the people, for our institutions and is creating this constitutional mess when we have serious economic issues. As a proud Canadian, I am ASHAMED of this individual as the Prime Minister

Dark knight

It’s like Sarah Palin in drag is running Canada -- the same game-book: the divisiveness, the whipping up resentment, the fear mongering, the setting of Canadian against Canadian, the careful fuelling of ignorance, the willingness to wreck the nation just to gain unfettered control of government. (A pit bull without the lipstick.) I was so pumped by the creation of the coalition, but after seeing the Harper thugees in action Tuesday, fear prorogation. If the GG allows it, expect the blue-shirts to saturate all the kinds of media, raising fear-mongering to a new low for Canada, fanning a jingoistic nationalism, attempting to arrogate for themselves alone, “Canadian”. The lies, the deceit that will flow. A sad, sad time for Canada. I fear the real coup is coming -- not the coalition, but the storm being fomented in its wake. I fear this crisis may turn out to be Canada’s Reichstag Fire. The coming dark night for Canada's soul. God help Canada if the coalition stumbles now. The retribution will be truly biblical. I hope the GG does right by Canada, not what's expedient for Harper.

Prorogation-a heart attack for Canadian Democracy

Are we witnessing the murder of democracy in Canada?

All this with the country in a recession. Harper is brilliant in getting his way, we have got to get rid of him fast!

Yup.

Good on ya Murray. This is not about left or right. It's about one party trying to eliminate rights and the competition through Machiavellian machinations and three parties trying to come together to seek a consensus government for the greater good. Let's hope the ideologues can come to accept compromise in their own position as well. Rafe? Bill?

Thank you, Murray. This

Thank you, Murray. This reflects my thoughts.

Can they renew the accord in the event of an election?

I've finally come around to Dobbin's way of thinking...we need a new party, a bigger tent from the centre to the left.

The Harper Plan

It has been completly missed by all the bloggers on all of the news sites of one preventlent fact: Harper did not make any errors. This has been his plan all along.

Harper did not like the taste of a minority goverment. He wants power. So, how does he get it? He creates a "crisis". He put together an economic update that he knew would rile the opposition parties.

He knew they would try and form a coalition and he knew he could prorogue parliament. He is a very smart cookie. He is now on a propaganda mission to finish his plan.

His plan is to put every Canadian in a state of fear ot the "Seperatists". Make Dion look like a donkey. Make the NDP look like the socialist hoards are banging on the gates of power.

For what? I say he is planning all this to win a majority in the next federal election. He will try to convince Jean to disolve parliament and call a new election. With his fear mongering in place the public will vote for "stability" allowing him to grab full power.

When that happens all that Murray Dobbin says he will do, he will do. Fear is a great motivator. Let us educate our neighbors of this plan so that it will fail.

Shock Doctrine a la Harper!

Just finished reading Naiomi Klein's Shock Doctrine. An excellent read and has made me think that Harper is trying his hand at this Neo-Con Friedmanite game.

Creat a shock or take advantage of one happening within our society (the current financial meltdown) or combine the two. It seems Mr. Dobbin, you may be right to oppose Mr. Harper in any way one can.

I am not sure we need another election, but Harper has to be put in his place and stopped cold in his attempt to impose his right wing agenda on us without a majority, at the very least.

Shock Doctrine Applied

Here's what Naomi Klein says specifically about our current crisis: http://www.naomiklein.org/articles/2008/12/cant-lose-this-moment.

That's interesting Romeogolf

But I think it's a little early to say that Harper has been chastened; in fact, quite the opposite - there was no sense of 'reaching out' to anyone in that pathetic speech - simply more of the same and the continued demonization of the Bloc as a wedge issue.

Remember, this is the man who suggested - not all that long ago - that there should be a firewall built around Alberta.

The man is an amoral wreck and he has lost the right to govern anything more responsible than a croquet club.

Ouch!

We'll have to wait and see Murray but you might be just a wee bit off base.

"The potential backlash against the Coalition partners is now palpable in the data: if a Federal election were held today it's likely that the Conservatives would reap a very large majority government with 46% of decided voters supporting the Conservatives, compared with 23% for the Liberals, 13% for the NDP, 9% for the Bloc Quebecois (37% in Québec) and 8% for the Green party. Five percent (5%) remain undecided."

IPSOS Dec 4 08

Tim for you guys to roll out the old Super-Scary 'NEW & IMPROVED' Hidden Agenda bandwagon.

Cheers, have fun!

Oh there's no doubt

There's no doubt Pee Wee will get his base - minus I'd say 99% of the votes he got in Quebec last time...

Abomination of Desolation

"Harper is a right-wing revolutionary manipulating a democratic system, which he detests for what it has produced: a pluralistic society, an activist state and a compassionate society."

Exactly. He hates Canada. Hates hates hates it.

"There will always be 30 - 35 percent of the population who are too stupid to know what actually happened here today."

Since 2004, the percentage of Americans identifying as Republican has declined from 29 percent to 25 percent. How many Canadians identify as Conservative? 30 - 35 percent, probably.

Daniel 9:27 (ASV) "And he shall make a firm covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease; and upon the wing of abominations [shall come] one that maketh desolate; and even unto the full end, and that determined, shall [wrath] be poured out upon the desolate."

Harper just a little PInocchio

I suspect, too, that Harper is deliberately itching for a bigger fight - taking a calculated gamble on a new election. Thus Liberal and NDP average waffler voters will be duped into once again playing "nice" Canadians, not having a clue that this struggle -- at least for those of us who see what's at risk -- isn't merely about civility and "getting along" in the Commons, but about defending the fundamental public realm.

I disagree with Dobbin only on one point, when he says "this is not an ordinary government." I think it actually IS; I think this IS the new neo-con face in the 21st century where governments, in order to win, have to push with a much more obvious naked ambition for power -- and to hell with what the voters or anyone protesting thinks. Get used to the new norm.

Thus, blaming poor Monsieur Harper as the architect of all of this and thinking that he alone is the problem and not the party, does the public a great disservice. It then thinks that all it has to do to achieve a kinder, softer government is to change the puppet.

You can replace Harper with a more well-mannered figurehead like Prentice, a charismatic Obama type, or someone seemingly less hot-headed (as we did in Alberta turning in Klein with meek-mannered Stelmach), it will make little difference to the underlying corporate fist running things.

P.S. Could be a little wakey wakey unpleasant surprise for the Cons if there's blowback in the Quebec election next week.
Any guesses?

alda

The ADQ was virtually invisible after the debate but Pauline Marois hasn't been a powerful campaigner either - In the middle of the last week on November Charest looked sure to get a majority - what I've heard since is that the PQ is on the rise....If Charest ends up with another minority I think the conclusion is clear..

Can you explain why Alberta has become such a reactionary backwater?

GG was conned by lying Harper

It made no sense for the GG to arrive from Europe late yesterday and agree to meet with Harper this morning. Exactly who is paid to be her advisers? Why is she travelling around Europe instead of visiting across Canada as Adrienne did? Just how much education does she have? This was SO STUPID today I am embarassed to live here. All Harper's lies about the Bloc were disgusting. Think he will get his comeuppance on Monday. There are English radio stations in Quebec. He seems to have forgotten that calling the Bloc one thing in English and another in French. What an arrogant poseur.

Three strikes, you're out

Harper has twice been unable to get a majority government. Now he has been unable to get the confidence of the House. bye.

Now come the attack ads

If you think Harper played dirty pool before, watch what he will do in the coming weeks! The media will be full of attack ads, backed by the editors and columnists of that same media.

CanWest is already on board, with editorials and columns lamenting the "sleazy tactics of the opposition, trying to grab power." How ironic, when that is an exact description of Harper's attempt to force the opposition to vote for their own extinction, leaving him with a clear field well into the future.

There is going to be a full-scale attempt to terrify the voters into supporting this neo-con government, with allusions to the plan of the "separatists" in English ("sovereignists" in French) and their nefarious plans to break up Canada. Has no-one noticed that the Quebecois no longer plan on leaving Canada? They have recently made it very clear they have no interest in forming a separate country.

Further scare tactics will include the raising of taxes, the implementation of a deficit (horrors!), and probably something in the order of downright bankruptcy of the economy. Everything and anything they can think of to discredit the coalition will be prominently displayed in every media. "Illegal!" "Immoral!" "Arrogant!" "Sneaky!" "Underhanded!" "Opportunistic!" ... Have I missed any? Probably.

Let's not forget that Harper tried exactly the same tactic when he was in Opposition, attempting to get the opposition to unite to oppose the then Liberal government. It was not deemed so reprehensible then.

Let us hope that we can use the internet as effectively in Canada as they did in the recent US election. It is our best hope of countering the coming propaganda storm.

STUBBORN AS MULES

G West. Thanks for the Q. update.

As I see it, there are 3 waves of Alberta immigrants who've contributed to the perplexing Alberta mindset:

#1 Descendants of Pioneers, like myself, who, influenced by hard-bitten farming grandparents, carry resentment of the East in their DNA, thanks to the Dirty Thirties Depression when the Eastern governments sent barrels of rotten apples and lousy $5.00 per month relief (welfare) cheques to farmers. (The old story, my mother wore flour-sacks to school, had no water for crops, etc.) As the province prospered post-Depression, a tough mindset developed that said, "To hell with depending on outsiders. Never again."

2. Americans - who came up to work in and develop the oil industry with a good ol' boy Texas philosophy that said, "Government had better get out of the way." Calgary, with a population of a million, has 100,000 Americans living here. Think they might influence Albertans just a little as to how business gets done?

2. Later migrants to Alberta are often from places where jobs were scarce (Ontario during the downturn, Newfoundland, 3rd world countries: Mexico, the Phillipinos, etc.) ... every single one of them damned grateful to be employed, and who now, with their new upper middle class SUV status, don't want a thing changed -- even if the Tar Sands development will kill their children's drinking water.

So, you ask, what makes Albertans tick?

FEAR. DEEP AND SECRET FEAR OF LOSING THEIR WELL-PAYING JOBS. Because Albertans think the bad times -- AND JOB LOSSES -- in the 1980's were due to the NEP (orchestrated by those Liberal Eastern Bastards), and not understanding that a worldwide recession was a bigger influence, who do you think they're afraid of most?

That's right. Easterners controlling or nationalizing their oil industry... and thus, causing them to LOSE THEIR JOBS.

But even as some of those old historical resentments ebb, this fear is now promoted, fostered, and played to the hilt by corporate Alberta during all elections, so the fear cycle continues.

(Ironic, then, isn't it, that average Albertans would rather see the cream of royalties that should stay in this country siphoned off to US and foreign oil companies, yet highly resent some of those royalties going to Eastern Canada, especially to those "sneaky, smart" Quebecers?)

Finally, the stricter environmental regulations and taxation that progressive governments (a NDP and Liberal coalition?) would enact, undoubtedly WOULD put a damper on oil industry profits. The Americans running the show (and Peak Oil) .... WILL NEVER LET THAT HAPPEN.

alda - thanks

pretty much what I expected - my forebears (on one side – the others were from England and Europe) had much the same experience as immigrants from rural Ontario to the Saskatchewan prairie just before the First World War. Funny though, in my background the connections to the east (Ontario - the area around Arthur) seemed to have remained intact and the bitterness of the depression was directed at the Provincial Liberal governments more than at central Canada per se. There was a sense of thanks more than resentment for the dried cod from Newfoundland and the apples from Ontario - and most of the deepest resentment was targeted at the God damned CPR.

I guess Leduc oil in 1947 made a huge difference between the way the two provinces evolved - Alberta going social credit rather than progressive and Saskatchewan going CCF in 1944.

But, truth to tell, minus the money and the immigrants (most of Saskatchewan's growth after 1922 was negative until the last decade) the two provinces aren't much different.

Saskatchewan is a terribly bigoted and racist society now and Harper and his cynical brown shirts have played the race card every chance they can get. Just stop for dinner or coffee in any of the shrinking small towns or booming ones (like Kindersley) and listen.

Sad. Sad to think that the place where universal public health care got its start should have turned into such a place - and sadder still that we have governments who play up the prejudice and nominal hatred of their supporters.

Oh, and if you can speak French, try to order coffee and a piece of pie in that cafe.

Alberta's twin

G West. Thanks for that.

I lived in Saskatchewan for a time. Sad to see it becoming Alberta's twin. Douglas and colleagues would turn over in their graves.

Today, polls tell us that Tory federal support has gone UP 10 percent during this fiasco. Only proof that Canadians, with their typical self-important and puffed-up sense of "playing fair" can be suckered in to believing just about anything if sold to them by enough media wash. In this case, that means they now believe that getting along nicely in parliament and "tradition" are more important virtues than upholding justice, not to mention the constitutional law. Beyond unbelievable. We live in a matrix.

Pot calling kettle black..

"Both know only too well just who Stephen Harper is and what he would do to the country should he ever achieve a majority."

WHAT?!?!

How can you possibly put words like that out?

No one can ever 'know' what a majority government might be 'like'.

More often than not the LIEberals would campaign on NDP like platform talking points and then Govern like the Conservatives.

I'd say that Both Rafe and Bill have been around the political block long enough to smell a stink-bomb of a coalition as it forms.

Did you not hear what the PQ announced was part of the conecessions that the BQ got from the deal? I heard it reported as $1 BILLION (with a 'B') going into the Quebec coffers.

If that is not a recipie for disaster I cannot fathom what other works of wonder the bag-of-mixed-nuts troika would perform!

jeaness

"Let us hope that we can use the internet as effectively in Canada as they did in the recent US election. It is our best hope of countering the coming propaganda storm."

Are you suggesting that individuals should finance the political parties, as they did in the Obama campaign via the Internet, as Harper and Flaherty proposed; rather than the parties living off the public purse as they currently do in Canada?

A BILLION?!?

So in a budget of $200 billion, which was to be temporarily raised to $230 billion, 23% of the population will receive a billion more than they do now.

What in god's name is wrong with that?

realisticman

Unless you also demand that donations not be tax deductible, which you aren't, then you're simply using the public purse to fund the Conservatives.

shane.polak@shaw.ca

No Fair! I said that first! Except that I think Harper's "motivation" is annexation by the US (by whatever term it is called). And it doesn't much matter who is Prez down there...........
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/29/AR2005122901412_pf.html

Great article Murray.

Alberta is such a reactionary backwater because they were lucky to be sitting on oil. That means they must be better financial managers than all the rest and by extension smarter.

The comments about the risks each leader took is dead on. Loved the cartoon as well.

Right on Murray!

It's never too late to stand up for our country. This morning I heard on the radio that BC is becoming a majority for the Conservatives. Obviously the folks they talked to have no idea what Harper is capable of and how dangerous he is. I don't think the big question should be 'the economy' - it needs to be about Canada! Harper's arrogance is going to cost us all dearly - and I for one do not want to pay his price. I don't want to see our sovereignty handed over to the US empire. Just read between the lines, he's lying to everyone...

Harper.....

Harper will do nothing,the coalition of the idiots will self destruct,no propoganda,no media blitz,the Liberals were in on this plan from the beggining,with the conservatives.

I just can`t believe how stupid Layton and Elizabeth May could of been!

Expect to see resignations from Layton and May early in the new year!

Murdock proves my point

Proving my point, Murdock, you wrote, "Did you not hear what the PQ announced was part of the conecessions that the BQ got from the deal? I heard it reported as $1 BILLION (with a 'B') going into the Quebec coffers."

From that, I can take it that you, too, would side with the majority of brainwashed Albertans who continue to vote AGAINST their own best interests by supporting the Conservatives who keep the oil royalties ridiculously low (the greatest profits, then, going to the corporations - often American). Yet, you turn around and resent what would be a pittance of those lost royalties going to your fellow Canadians - Quebecers who live in a have-not province.

Use your logic, and see what folly that kind of thinking is = cake for the international rich (more of a united country than we are), and crumbs for the Canadian masses.

Care for BC first.

alda,

"Use your logic, and see what folly that kind of thinking is = cake for the international rich (more of a united country than we are), and crumbs for the Canadian masses."

BC has the ability under the current consitiution to form its own bank, currency, police force, pension plans - the LOT.

We choose to hand it all over to Ottawa, for 'redistribution' where only $0.73 of every dollar we send gets back to anyone...the rest being sucked into the black-hole useless vacuum called Ottawa and the 'Federal' Government.

Our taxes too are sucked into this sink hole where more is collected by Federal statute than local, municipal, or Provincial - yet we see less and LESS of it coming back here to BC all the time.

If money and or care for the populace is your concern then join the ranks of BC separatists and tell Ottawa NO MORE.

I agree that this means we would need to have a more caring and capable BC administration, than we currently have, but with a good backbone we could easily tell Ottawa that their rusty railroad to nowheresville Ontario will just not cut it for keeping BC in the 'confederation' the way it has been.

We have the talent, the resources and the ability to make our own here.

What we lack is the will.

The Big Lie

It seems the Big Lie still works, and Harper is the one to deliver it to the gullible.

Maybe we should be ignoring Harper

Seems there are many more important things a REAL GOVERNMENT should be working on:
http://business.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20081205.wjobs1205/BNStory/Business/home

Here in the Banana Republic of Canada all that's really important is that the dictator of record keeps his chestnuts out of the fire till after Christmas.

Susan Riley in the Times Colonist puts it pretty well; very well considering its a CanWest organ:

Emphasis added.