Should we care?

Just a thought, Grumpy, but since things seem to be getting worse, not better regarding our current version of "Democracy", and since US States enjoy far more autonomy than Canadian Provinces, what would be so bad about hooking up with the US?

Since both Harper and Gordo are so intent upon selling the farm out from under our feet, why not regain at least nominal title to it?

Reasons to hate?

Excellent backgrounding, Skookum1.

Many years ago I read a story about Tito's efforts to modernise Yugoslavia.

A major problem he faced was the existence of many local and ethnic hatreds which had existed for so long that everyone had forgotten their origins and which then relied instead upon traditional tales of supposed grievances.

The story recounted the situation of two remote villages situated less than 10 miles apart in which their hatreds were so extreme they would shoot each other on sight.

Such was also the case with West Coastal natives - sometimes even within tribes.

Something similar bedevils US policy. Every American is taught from cradle to grave that their system is the best humankind has ever developed. For them, it follows that all their customs and all their values are the best to be found anywhere and that everyone else in the world should be thrilled to be given the chance to learn and adopt them.

One might think that highly educated US leadership might be aware that this is their "creation story", a myth little different from those held by other peoples.

But no. Perhaps because the myth dovetails so well with their greed, it's clear US leadership buys fully into it, and IMO this explains the hamfistedness and short-term thinking that characterizes all US policy.

Bye.

Farewell.

Here's the invoice for your part of the national debt.

Politely step back and let them either sink or swim.

The stupid situation which has been financially crippling the Canada for about a century should be ended, before we allow another federal government to hand out more sacks of cash.

Quote:A major problem he

The story recounted the situation of two remote villages situated less than 10 miles apart in which their hatreds were so extreme they would shoot each other on sight.

Such was also the case with West Coastal natives - sometimes even within tribes.

"Tribes" is a term that's a problem, as we're now using it to refer to language groups as if they were nations, when in reality there were separate nations in the same language group; a "tribe" shares a community of purpose and is not defined only linguistically; that's what "we" have mistakenly done, including in the creation of tribal councils and bands which coalesce former enemies solely on the basis that they spoke the same language.

re the Former Yugoslavia and the Balkans, there are several ethnicities in the region which do not have territory, e.g. the Tzintzars, who are a Romance-speaking merchant people distributed through Bosnia and adjoining areas, whose origins date back to when this was the Roman province of Pannonia; likewise in one ethnographic account I read, the higher up in the mountains of Greece, Romania, Bulgaria, Macedonia (FYROM) and Albania you go, the more arcane dialects you find, usually of older pre-Hellenic and pre-Slavic languages like Aromune (another Romance language dating to Roman times); the Greeks call them Vlach, which is also their word for peasant/hick, but is also the term for Wallachians, i.e. one of the main branches of the Romanians. Many such peoples will never have a state, and some have nearly been wiped out (only a few hundred or few thousand Tzintzars exist today, SFAIK, although there have been no genocidal campaigns against them; like the Romany they're a closed society and I've never seen much more on them than what's in the fantastical Khazar Dictionary by Milorad Pavic.

The US AND We...

The "would be" US Empire and we, pathetic tag along, butt bang, almost nothing state that we be, are in over our heads. It is just a matter of time in Iraq, Afghanistan, and everywhere else that they/we be, attempting to surround and contain Russia and monopolize the world for ourselves. And Harper is such a dummy, so anxious to serve the US Empire, as Skookum helps make clear above, that he can't connect the dots of not only the bum-boy role he has us playing in the world, but the national soul destroying precedents he is setting in Kosovo, assisting the US-Euro breakup of Serbia vis a vis Quebec. And this is already on top of the Conservative treachery of committing the subservience of our armed forces, and the cash and human treasure they represent, to the US Empire ambition, whilst we can't even maintain a credible presence in our north, upon which the US has its covetous eye as the principle threat to our very national interest.

This country, if one can even credibly call us that, is about already economically and politically, one of the most pathetic and emasculated excuses for a so-called "independent" nation, or nations, depending upon how you see us. It really doesn't matter about Quebec if we continue down this current course we are on hardly any time longer, and have been since the collapse of the British Empire, which we also served as a bum-boy fighter for its foreign wars as we are now serving the US. We are ourselves already a virtually done deal.

Already the national wake-up call for this country has likely already come and gone-, whilst Canadians were cross border shopping looking for relatively cheaper gas and Wal-Mart deals.

Kosova/US ~ Serbs/First Nations, and then some

Boy doesn't that look strange, but that's the equation, although maybe I could have arranged the relationship a bit better....what it's in reference to is that from the United States' timeframe the Kosovars have been there long enough to warrant ownership, no matter if it's someone else's ancestral homeland, or the placed that defined them as a people at any rate, even though it was a catastrophic loss, unlike the US' sweeping conquest by settlement and conquest of the better bits of the North American continent.

Up here the parallel to the Kosovars, the newcomers in the region under dispute, is the Canadian state and its population; or "settler population" as one of the politer terms used by First Nations writers goes. And we haven't even been here as long as the Kosovars. "Here" having an especially loaded meaning in native-majority or strong-minority places like the Fraser Canyon or Skeena or Omineca and Chilcotin and so on.

Endorsing the Kosovar claim to statehood may not shore up Canada's and the US' possession/appropriation of native territories, but there's a real parallel to the Serb context for the First Nations position(s): "we were here first, we don't care if you've got the bigger numbers now." The historical solutions to cases like this have been expulsion, extermination or forced assimilation; ethnic cleansing is an old and unpleasant art, it's really nothing new, sadly enough.

And it was, in fact, contemplated by native peoples a number of times between the foundation of Fort Astoria in 1811 (which was "ours", for a while) to World War I, and the attitude is still out there; "drive 'em out". A few of us here in this group have no doubt been in or outside bars on the Interior or Coast or otherwise heard someone cursing the whites, wanting to kill us all. The term is cultus whitemen in CJ and I've heard it more than once; I know the tone and inflections of sama7, the word for us, enough to know when to get out of the way, or leave the room, or duck. Never heard hwelitum said angrily in Halkomelem (and don't want to...) and not sure what it is elsewhere; usually the term for whites is derisive, or can be.

(cont.)

cont.

I'm not saying they're going to rise up and do a Rwanda on Lytton and Smithers or Merritt or wherever, it's just that it's an old and very real sentiment, in-built in family upbringing no doubt, like so much else of the inherited poisons of an abused/abusing family life. But for those here who have sympathies for the First Nations, consider the Serb position and its parallels; the Serbs, for those who don't know, only "got onto the map" after centuries of oppression (and mercenary-dom) back in the early 1800s, so their state is "new" too, and includes part of the Banat, a tri-national region partitioned by Versailles between Hungary, Serbia and Romania, with those ethnicities plus Transylvanian Germans and others, and also the Sanjak, which had been in Ottoman control (as a corridor between Muslim Albania and the dominantly-Muslim Bosnia, also still under Ottoman rule then), which is a sort of border strip against Macedonia. Where Srebrenica and Gorazde are/were....(cont
anyway the Banat's another firecracker, or at least the Serb portion, the Vojvodina is, and the Romanian sector was very volatile in the post-Ceaucescu period. Even Slovak-Hungarian spats could turn into something; one reason to bring everybody into NATO, in fact, to prevent the consequences of not having everyone all lined up and not having any potential states/militaries not only talking to each other but part of the same organization....yes, it's Empire, supposedly without an Emperor. So far anyway....the game is what it's been since Alexander's death words gave it succinct form - "to the strongest" (or so the legend, politically mistold, goes....).

more on US/Kosovo motives/parallels

When my Serb friends, who came here in the early '90s, realized the political disarray and the volatility of the native and Quebec situations, they were dismayed, seeing the trouble for what it was - unresolved conflict with the potential for war; when I briefed them on the Oka Crisis a few years before they were shocked (I taught them English while living with them). At the same time, I know they regard Albanians the way "most Canadians" see First Nations people (if it's most, I don't think it really is) - the negative image of the lazy, slow, drunken, stupid hick (the Serbs and Greeks see eye to eye on this one). Not a great parallel, I guess, but still the notion of time-of-occupancy and when an in-migrant population like the Kosovars gets to have national rights in what had been another state's territory....well, the US understands that all too well because that's how it took nearly everything it's sitting on, and not so long ago either (Serbia is only slightly older, though the Serbs have been there longer).

But well there's no real way around it, given their numbers, is still foolhardy - and dangerous as it will no doubt to out to be in terms of diplomatic and potentially military consequences (like I said, the Balkans is another Iraq "ready to go off" if destabilized...it's not like it hasn't happened before).

Militarily and diplomatically, the US has the clout to get away with this; but the Kosovar presence in Kosova has yet another, more modern parallel, than the natives. Mexican immigration......(btw if the continent could be united into one big republic without the US running the show, I'd be all for it; absorbing Mexico and Mexican culture/society would be good for nortenos and gringos...

Continue

Why was recognition of Kosovo inevitable Mr. Mair? Do you think that Canadians would stand by if some countries that belong to a self serving alliance came here and told us that no matter how we feel about Quebec, and no matter what treaty Canada has signed with other nations and with Quebec we have no say if and when Quebec will become independent? Why do we sign treaties when we don’t intend to observe them? Where, in this case is our credibility?
We signed treaty 1244 with Serbia about Kosovo and just as quickly broke it by recognizing Kosovo’s independence. From the outset we had no intent to observe this treaty that is why we took our sweet time to deal with the issue of Kosovo independence. NATO nations used the time to militarize Kosovo so its reconnection to Serbia would be impossible. Is this how we want to relate to other members of the United Nations or is this simply a process to gain an advantage in a region which is unable to defend its sovereignty?
There are many reasons for the break-up of Yugoslavia, but we in the West have been fed a sanitized version. However, we along with the rest of UN gave support to the 1999 UN Security Council Resolution 1244 which stated that Kosovo is sovereign territory of Serbia and only a new UN resolution can change that legally. Germany, United States and Great Britain signed this agreement and they were the first to break it. It is obvious that they did not intend to observe it from the outset. As the people rioted recently in the streets of Belgrade, the US spokesman on CNN asks Serbia to “fulfill their international obligations to protect the American embassy”, this while US tramples on international law in Serbia and elsewhere in the world. Did you ask yourself what is the purpose of Camp Bondsteel in Kosovo, the largest US military base outside of America? Your article provides a similar sanitized version of the Balkan events without answering the though question.
Milosevic, Mr. Mair, was the leader of Serbia who wanted all the Serbs to live in one state and that state was Yugoslavia. Milosevic was not a democrat but he was not a nationalist either, however, the corporate media painted him as a nationalist monster but even the Hague Tribunal was unable to find a single statement where he promoted Serbian nationalism. Events that brought NATO bombers, like the RACAK massacre, were fabricate to alienate the Serbs. Hashim Tachi the present leader of Kosovo brags of this today and we recognized him as a leader of Kosovo when just prior to our bombing of Serbia he was on the CIA terrorist list.

Third comment

In Milosevic’s Serbia lived some seven million Serbs, two hundred and fifty thousand Croats, one million Muslims, two hundred and fifty thousand Albanians (excluding the million and a half that live in the Serbian province of Kosovo), four hundred thousand Hungarians and many other minorities who still live there today. During the NATO war and the wars in Croatia and Bosnia not a single member of these minorities was maltreated and in fact thousands of Muslims, Croats, Albanians and Serbs escaped from conflict zones and found sanctuary in Serbia. In fact other than Darfur, Serbia, today has the second largest refugee population in the world. So why would Milosevic go outside of Serbia to cleanse non Serbs when he never touched a single one in his own province and doorstep?
Milosevic helped pressure the warring parties to sign five peace agreements in Bosnia and Croatia but in each case the other side violated these agreements with American encouragement and pressure. Holbrook, American diplomat prolonged the conflict with his double dealing, however, you place the responsibility on Milosevic for continuing the war and conveniently forget that Milosevic brokered five peace agreements and provided sanctuary in Serbia for all ethnic groups in former Yugoslavia who were fleeing the war zones. Journalism by omission is as repugnant as journalism by manipulation, and we know that there was plenty of that and most of it in the service of NATO.
The question how many people died in NATO’s break-up of Yugoslavia needs to be answered because it speaks to the heart of media manipulation in the service of NATO. NATO representatives reported that two hundred and fifty thousand or five hundred thousand died in Bosnia, and CBC as well as other Media outlets including the Vancouver papers reported these figures without verification. We now know that approximately 17% of the dead were Croats, 34% Serb and some 45% Muslim. Tokača, a Bosnian Muslim researcher states that as of 15 December 2005, “our list contained 93,837 names of [dead] civilians and soldiers, [which] comprised of 63,687 Muslims, 24,216 Serbs, 5,057 Croats and 877 others.” When one extrapolates the military casualties it can be concluded that most of those who died were members of the military factions. Furthermore, these percentages reflect the population proportions of Bosnia where most of these people died. Whose interest did these inflated figures serve other then those of NATO that wanted to use their smart weapons in the break-up of Yugoslavia?

4th Comment

In Kosovo Serbia was fighting a terrorist organization the KLA and in that war about four thousand people died not ten thousand that journalists use without verification. Many of the deaths were Serb and Albanian civilians who were kidnapped and killed by the KLA or killed when grenades were thrown into crowded cafés. NATO bombing campaign added over nine hundred dead to that list. Mass exodus of Albanians, Serbs and others from Kosovo started when NATO bombs started falling. Many of these that left went north to Serbia. It is a well known fact that the KLA forced many Albanians to leave Kosovo so that Serbs would be blamed. Did you ever wonder why over four million Iraqis live as refugees in Syria, Jordan and Iran or why over four million Afghans left their country when the Soviets invaded. People leave war zones or send their wives and children to safe areas as many Albanians, Muslims and Serbs did in Bosnia and Kosovo.
The question, were people cleansed from their homes in Bosnia and Croatia in this war. The answer is yes and I have many pictures that show the effects of this criminal practice. I saw the results of this cleansing on a month long trip into the region. I also know what happened from discussions with two of my former history students who served with the Blue Helmets in Bosnia and Croatia. They corroborate what I witnessed and what I ascertain in the interviews and write below.

I have read reports from Generals, McKenzie, Numbiar, and Rose the commanders of UN forces in Bosnia and I have recently interviewed Serbs, Muslims and Croats who lived through the conflict so I know how our government fabricated our military adventures which the media reported as facts and supported without verification. I have read everything on this conflict that I could get my hands on so I know exactly why the war party lied and partitioned the country. If you really want to know what happened in Yugoslavia read “Diana Johnstone, FOOLS' CRUSADE Yugoslavia, NATO and Western Delusions, Monthly Review Press, New York, N.Y, 2002;”

I saw the results where Croats expelled Serbs and Muslims from the territory where Croats were the majority, and where Muslims cleansed Serbs and Croats from areas where Muslims were the majority and where Serbs cleansed Muslims and Croats from where Serbs were the majority. I have spoken to persons who spent month in camps that were under the control of the three factions. Serbs and Croats were held by Muslims in railway tunnels, Croats held Muslims in forty degree heat in oil tanks buried in the ground while Serbs held Muslims and Croats in barbed wire enclosures. Some half million Serbs who live today as refugees in Serbia have not been allowed to return to their homes in Croatia or Kosovo while the majority of Muslims and Croats and Serbs in Bosnia have returned. Of course many have no homes to return to since their homes have been burned or vandalized in their absence.

5th comment on Mair

Why did NATO want to break-up Yugoslavia? NATO wanted to break-up Yugoslavia to privatize its economy in the name of Globalization. Milosevic was the only one of the old communist guard who refused to move to total privatization, so Milosevic had to go and for that he was made a scapegoat for NATO’s acts of war. This was the same reason the West got rid of Gorbachev in Russia. Gorbachev wanted Russia to become a Swedish style socialist state while US wanted total privatization so Gorbachev was out and Yeltsin “the drunk” replaced him. Under Yeltsin the country was robbed blind until Putin entered the picture and stopped the economic bleeding. .

You fail Economics 90 Mr. Mair because you did not recognize that privatization was the aim of EU and USA in the break-up of Yugoslavia. Today, Croatia’s Dalmatian and Montenegro’s coast is being bought up by foreign interests (NATO countries), toll highways are being built by foreign firms and privatized in all parts of former Yugoslavia while the infrastructure, telecommunication, resources, financial institutions (banks and insurance companies), tourist facilities are bought up by Europeans at anywhere from 10 cents to 30 cents on a dollar. In former Yugoslavia, like in Eastern Europe and Russia prior to Putin a massive theft of state property is underway. Wal-Mart like stores, fast food outlets, soft drink and tobacco companies are on the move into the Balkans. Former Yugoslavia is well on its way to MacDonaldisation, Cocacolaism and Rothmanism.
Joe Bissett our ambassador to Yugoslavia when we started this illegal process was fired by our government when he objected to this international terrorism. He writes “During almost ten years of NATO/UN occupation [of Kosovo] none of the provisions of Resolution 1244 have been carried out. In fact almost all of the non-Albanians have been expelled from Kosovo, 150 Christian churches and monasteries have been burned and crime, corruption and violence is endemic in the territory. All of this at a time when there have been up to 40,000 US and NATO troops there to maintain order and implement UN Resolution 1244.This is a shameful record of duplicity, double standards and cowardice on the part of the US led NATO forces.” You Mr. Mair call this “legally defensible”.
Mr. Mair you also write that “The recognition of Kosovo does not imply that minorities all over the world will pour into the streets waving new nationalists flags and singing new anthems as they take over their part of the country.” What exactly does it imply if not that? If Kosovo can do it why not Chechnya, Quebec, the Basque, Northern Ireland , Northern Cypress, the Kurds and so on. Oh yes I forgot these regions are in nations that have clout and power so don’t piss around with them because they will tell the world to f - - - - off and they will deal with their internal issue the way they damn feel.

6th Comment on Mair

As a lawyer Mr. Mair you fail Law 12 as you forget to tell us about the fundamental principles of international law and how the NATO nations broke it. International law was, as Bissett states “designed as a guarantee that all nations small as well as large need not fear aggression by a more powerful state. They are meant to have universal application and cannot be set aside because of special circumstances or when they prove to be an obstacle to the policy aims of powerful nations. Their message is simple and clear--borders cannot be changed without the consent of the affected state.” This is why Mr. Mair we signed the Yalta Agreement, and the Helsinki Accord on Borders.
Honorable men like Bissett make sacrifices even when it cost them their job, others like a drowning man grab for straws to justify an illegal act. Bissett writes that “In foreign policy as in other issues of public policy there are times when principles must be honored otherwise we risk sliding back to the days when force was the only means of resolving disputes.” This is exactly what NATO wants. NATO wants to subvert UN and become the sole arbiter of international law no matter whose national interest is compromised.
Mr. Mair you write that “The international impact of the recognition of Kosovo is on Russia's relationship with the West”. Why don’t you explain this? Why is Russia, the only nation that supported international law in the case of Kosovo, and why is she concerned? If you look at the reasons for the breakup of Yugoslavia, Russia’s concern is understandable. Look at the letter written to Gerhard Schroeder the German Chancellor by one of his political advisors who attended a conference in Bratislava Slovakia. The conference dealt with NATO expansion. This letter is important since Germany was the first to recognize Slovenian unilateral break with Yugoslavia. Germany did this with their recognition of Croatian unilateral declaration of independence. Some might say this was payback to these countries for their alliance with Germany and Nazism during WWII.

7th comment on Mair The letter

Here is the content of that letter.
“The conference [in Bratislava] was attended by very high level political officials, as witnessed by the presence of a large number of prime ministers, as well as foreign ministers and defense ministers from the region. Among the numerous important points of discussion, certain themes deserve special mention:
1. The conference organizers demanded the speediest possible international recognition of an independent state of Kosovo within the circle of the allied states.
2. The organizers declared that the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia lies outside of any legal framework, before all outside the Helsinki Final Act [on the inviolability of state borders – trans. note].
3. The European legal order presents an obstacle to carrying out the plans of NATO. In this sense, the American legal system is more suitable for application in Europe.
4. The war against the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia was waged in order to rectify General Eisenhower’s erroneous decision during World War II. Therefore, for strategic reasons, American troops must be stationed there, in order to compensate for the missed opportunity from 1945.
5. The European allies participated in the war against Yugoslavia in order to, de facto, overcome the obstacle and dilemma that appeared after the adoption of NATO’s “New Strategic Concept” in April 1999, that is, the Europeans’ efforts to previously secure a UN or OSCE mandate.
6. Without denigrating the importance of the Europeans’ after-the-fact legalistic interpretation, namely that the expansion of NATO’s tasks beyond the treaty’s legal domain in the war against Yugoslavia was just an exception, it is nevertheless clear that this represented a precedent, to be invoked by anyone at any time, and that many others will follow the example in the future.
7. It would be good, during NATO’s current enlargement, to restore the territorial situation in the area between the Baltic Sea and Anatolia such as existed during the Roman Empire, at the time of its greatest power and greatest territorial expansion.
8. For this reason, Poland must be flanked to the north and to the south with democratic neighbor states, while Romania and Bulgaria are to secure a land connection with Turkey. Serbia (probably for the purposes of securing an unhindered US military presence) must be permanently excluded from European development.
9. North of Poland, total control over St. Petersburg’s access to the Baltic Sea must be established.
10. In all processes, peoples’ rights to self-determination should be favored over all other provisions or rules of international law.
11. The claim that, during its attack on the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, NATO violated all international rules, and especially all the relevant provisions of international law – was not disputed.

8th Comment on Mair

After this conference, at which discussion was quite candid and open, it will not be possible to avoid the importance and long-term ramifications of its conclusions, especially having in mind the competence of the participants and organizers.
It seems that the American side, for the sake of its own goals, is willing and ready to undermine, on a global scale, the international legal order, which came about as a result of the two world wars in the previous century. Force is to stand above law.”
If this letter does not tell you all you need to know about the Balkan events I don’t know what will?
You claim that Russia is in this because of Pan Slavism, her love for Serbia, but is it not also reasonable to say that Germany is in this because of Pan Germanism because of her love for her former allies in WWII Slovenia, Croatia and Albania or America is in this because of Pan Americanism? Is it not reasonable to assume that America wants to dominate the main corridor between Europe and Asia by controlling the Balkans? Why have they built the largest military base, camp Bondsteel in Kosovo unless they planned to stay there from the outset? WWI Mr. Mair was not a war of alliances per say, even though we teach that, but a war hoisted on the working people by the upper classes to divert their attention from the union movement and Socialism. Unfortunately it got out of hand. Blaming Russia is a Cold War syndrome that you need to shed.
Mr. Mair you write that “had only the West not behaved as it did after the breakup of the Soviet Union” things might have been different. Gorbachev who started glasnost and Perestroika was our man for a time until he said Russia must choose the Swedish style of socialism. Once this policy was known in the West he had to go as our aim was total privatization of Russia’s state assets and for this he was replaced by the buffoon Yeltsin who went along with everything that the West wanted. Russia sled into chaos. In comes Putin who brings the chaos under control but to us this is KGB at work. The thieves who stole Russian assets should join our friend Conrad Black, not in a posh US prison but in Siberia.

9th comment on Mair

Melanie Phillips a respected British journalist writes for the Spectator magazine on February 24th:
“The decision by Britain, America and certain other European countries to recognize Kosovo as an independent state is mind-blowing stupid and suicidal and of a piece with their obvious determination to capitulate in the war for civilization. It is a rotten decision …” She does not mix words in condemning the illegal actions of Germany, and her NATO allies in recognizing the unilateral declaration of independence of the Serbian province of Kosovo. She writes “Serbia is a properly constituted democratic country. To recognize the validity of such secession is to undermine the principle of a country’s right to determine its own composition. [I]international law … explicitly recognizes Serbian authority over Kosovo and upholds a state’s right to its own sovereignty. It opens the way for any other breakaway movement to do the same, both in the Balkans and around the world”

The chickens will come home to roost for us here in Canada when Quebec decides to go her own way and at that time the rest of us will be poorer for it.

SORRY I had to break up my comments as the Tyee only allows 3000 characters and I needed to tell R. Mair to do his homework

1st commentMR. MAIR YOU FAIL ON FOUR COUNTS IN YOUR VIEW ON KOSO

MR. MAIR YOU FAIL ON FOUR COUNTS IN YOUR VIEW ON KOSOVO

Mr. Mair your article on Kosovo fails on four counts. It is historically bare, it fails to address the legal principles involved, it fails to explain the geopolitical factors in the breakup of Yugoslavia, but most strikingly it fails to explain how NATO nations fabricate their actions in order to explain their criminal activity in international relations.

Recently I read an article written in a popular Croatian newspaper about George Bush’s visit to Croatia. I will translate only one sentence from this article because it reflects the overall thesis. The sentence reads “This story about Bush’s presence in Zagreb [capital of Croatia] was really a story about us in a small, and for that reason pitiable Croatia. Captivated with sparkling American power we sottishly looked on as he was paraded before our eyes, the most powerful man in the world waved, bowed and winked. Blinded, we were thinking that this is recognition of our country, this is attestation of her international worth, that after these things we will be better off, and that from now on we will not be isolated and marginalized". This is from a Croatian journal in one of the wealthiest parts of former Yugoslavia.

Croatia is not Kosovo. Since NATO arrived Kosovo has become a state ruled by people who are drug dealers, prostitution purveyors, white slave traders and according to Carla Del Ponte former Chief Prosecutor of two United Nations international criminal law tribunals they were traders in human organs taken from Serbian civilians. Serbs should dance in the streets to be rid of Kosovo as it was an endless pit for aid. Kosovo was a yoke on the neck of Serbia. So why does Serbia want it?

Mr. Mair you fail History 12 if you can’t understand that taking Kosovo from Serbia is like taking Jerusalem from the Israelis. Kosovo is Serbian culture its poetry, its art and its mind. You also fail history 12 since you fail to inform the readers why and how Kosovo was separated from Serbia. More importantly you fail history 12 because you did not explain how and why NATO broke up Yugoslavia. Mr. Mair you also fail Geography 12 since you don’t understand that Kosovo’s location is central to NATO’s control of Europe and the Middle East. Mr. Mair you also fail Law 12 which is shameless, since you are a lawyer, and as a lawyer you fail to deal with how Canada ignored the rule of law, due process and the independent judiciary in our participation to break up Yugoslavia.

NATO and our government was a party to this shameless act of international terrorism that wrought poverty, death and pollution to a land which empires invaded without any sense of morality for their own geopolitical reasons and you sir as a lawyer should have seen this and objected to it, like Edward Greenspan did, like Christopher Black did and like Michael Mandel of Osgoode Law School and other international lawyers did.

uh.....

Very interesting background, Mr Trkla, I will read it again in detail later; one phrase caught my eye, though:

That would be "the majority of those Muslims and Croats who survived....have returned". What was the total count of Muslim and Croat dead/disappeared in Bosnia, anyway? Also, what about Slavonia in the same context? I know Serbs have not been able to return to the Krajina....but where there any Croats to return to Slavonia?

re settler/in-migrant self-determination

It came to me while cooking dinner that there was another BC parallel, though short-lived and pie-in-the-sky - the plan by Sikh extremists to create "Khalistan" in Newton/Surrey.....same idea, move in, dominate the population in a given area, then lobby for self-determination. The Americans had the same agenda in California and Hawaii, and sort of also in the Oregon Country and very briefly in early colonial BC.....more to the point, it's the same logic being used by China about Tibet, plus the Chinese notion that Tibet is part of the "homeland" of the Chinese people (which can mean either subjects of the Chinese state, or Han; usually it means the latter).

And speaking of which, the torch relay troubles currently following the Olympic flame can be expected to have their echoes here in 2010. China will make sure of it....

The death in Bosnia

Skookum1 I am sorry about this disjointed post. I did not realize I was limited to 3000 characters so I had to cut my post in sections and when I posted some post made it to the blog and others did not so I was forced to repost that is why my reply to Mr. Mair is not in sequence . I would like to say from the outset that I am only interested in harmony in the community in Bosnia and in the world.

The media reporting on the breakup of Yugoslavia was a classic case of misinformation, omission, and yellow journalism. Reports were never impartial, neutral, and independent. These reports served one purpose NATO expansion, and Globalization. Remember the press claims half million raped, in Bosnia, and million dead in Kosovo was reported without an iota of evidence. This was the big lie as was the concentration camp where a skinny man was presented to the world as proof of a Serb Auschwitz. In a British courtroom this was shown as a fabrication but after the fact and after NATO provided air support to Izetbegovic. I had written dozens of letter to our media and the so called expert from SFU that they used but they were either, blind or silent due to intellectual laziness.

You ask an interesting question on the number of dead in these wars. Unfortunately there were too many mostly due to clan mentality. There have been three studies and all suggest that about 100 thousand died in Bosnia. I answered part of your question in my THIRD POST LAST PARAGRAPH.

The number of Muslims that died is about 50% of the total. The Muslims had a three way war , against the Serbs, against the Croatc and between themselves. The Muslim leader Izetbegovich usurped the election when he became president he lost the election but expelled his opponent who wanted to remain in Yugoslav union. Slovenia went relatively peacefully and only a few Slovenes died. Most death in Slovenia were Yugoslav Army conscripts who were told not to shoot but they were shot from ambush. Slovenia has about 10% Serbs and 12% Croats and there was no mistreatment. Some did leave fearing persecution but in order to enter EU Slovenia had to behave. There is some conflict between Slovenia and Croatia over territory but it has not emerged into open conflict.

Not all Muslims Croats and Serbs have returned to their homes in Bosnia. Why go back when they are ten times as well off in their new homelands. These new immigrants are hard working and many are well educated and have good managerial jobs. I always say what is wrong with our kids when I see such success. All the ones that I know have their own homes and travel back to the old country almost every year.

Slovenia vs Slavonia

I'm sorry, it wasn't Slovenia I was meaning, maybe I've got the name wrong, I thought it was Slavonia; the traditional name in English (though obscure) for Croatia's old "north arm", stretching towards Serbia and the Vojvodina between Bosnia and Hungary, where the Croatian War broke out as the first phase of the disassembly of the former Yugoslavia. It's partitioned now, I believe, with its eastern half or third now part of Serbia; it was that area I was wondering about; details hazy now but it was at war a while before things spilled over/erupted into Bosnia, wasn't it? Slavonia was an old Austro-Hungarian term for it, I'm sorry I don't know the modern name in Yugoslav (which seems the only safe term for the Croatian/Serbian/Bosnian language..."south Slav")

Slavonia

You are correct in your location of Slavonia. Geographically it is located north of the Sava River and West of the Danube. River. The area between Slavonia and Bosnia forms a corridor that stretches all the way to Zadar on the Adriatic Sea. This Corridor was populated by Serbs whose ancestors came here after the battle of Kosovo. They fled the Muslim occupation of Kosovo. They were resettled in the Austro Hungarian territory where they became border guards and guerrilla fighters against the Ottomans. As an example, Nikola Tesla one of Serbia’s greatest inventors (everything from speedometers to turbines) was born in Croatian border lands. His mother came from a family of officers who served as border guards while his father was a Serbian Orthodox priest.. Tesla is best known for his invention of the electric motor, AC current and transformers. His work on magnetism is used in MRI and the machines that we have in our hospitals are called Tesla one and Tesla two. He has over a thousand patents but died poor. That is another story.

Slavonia like Dalmatia were separate entities like Kosovo and Vojvodina. Tito added Slavonia and Dalmatia to Croatia and gave Vojvodina and Kosovo autonomy from Serbia. Some suggest that this was done to create a balance of power between the former Yugoslav republics. In Slavonia and the corridor between Slavonia and Sava River lived some 150 thousand Serbs Pakrac and Vukovar come to mind Number of Serbs and Croats died in this region. Most Serbs were cleansed from here as one group retaliated against the other when the hostilities started in 1992 . Very few have returned. Krajina which means Kraj- border or borderland was populated mostly by Serbs. The first problem in this region took place in Gospic, Nikola Tesla was born several kilometers from Gospic. In 1991 one year before the war started between Krajina Serbs and Croatian paramilitaries some 100 Serbian professional men teachers, lawyers and doctors were killed in this town leading to Serbs taking up arms in Krajina.

The long-term goals of the Security Council is to get a complete and unreserved commitment of Croatia to the permanent reintegration of its Serb citizens; and secondly that the international community must continue to scrutinize Croatian performance closely. Croatia wants into EU and now is harmonizing its commercial law with that of Europe; Human rights are not there yet. I was in Croatia five times recently and I had more problems in England and our customs when I came back than in Croatia.

You are correct that Slavonia belonged to Hungary as did Croatia for several centuries they were also part of the Ottoman Empire as well . Vojvodina also belonged to Hungary. The Capital Novi Sad was called Ujvede. Many Serbs came to Vojvodina after WWI when the King subdivided large land holdings and gave land to peasants from Herzegovina. After WWII many Hungarians and Germans were expelled and their land was given to Serbs and Croats. .

I flunked History in school

A very interesting account, Mr Trkla, but well over my depth. The machinations of the US as it tries to drive home the final nails to secure its Economic Empire makes sad reading. And so too the co-operation of the EU through the "New World Order".

Sad, because it all suggests to me that this is doomed to be an ongoing saga as they, with Russia getting involved too, are interested only in the exploitation of these presently weak nations.

We can only hope that these people won't tread the path of countless others before them, and see their only defense as joining mutually exclusive blocs.

One Small cavil re your information. You wrote:

"Did you ask yourself what is the purpose of Camp Bondsteel in Kosovo, the largest US military base outside of America?"

But Camp Bondsteel is a relatively small installation among "outside bases"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Bondsteel

But then that led me to a very interesting account about US bases, which I found well worth reading
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0115-08.htm

I look forward to Mair's reply to your posts.

Tesla tangent....

Tesla is well-known, of course....one thing I remember from a biography of him (Tesla: Man Out Of Time) said that he was also a highly-regarded Serbian poet, and also that his translations of poetry into English (and maybe English poetry into Serbian) were definitive. Would you happen to know any publications of his poetry or translation? In English, I mean....

I flunked History in School

ME2 I would have passed you in history since somewhere along the way you have learned the most important history lesson which is to ask questions. The question is always better then the answer. Every messenger has an agenda and through questions we can see if it meets the test of impartiality, neutrality and independence. The evidence that we provide should be verifiable and measurable.

I am not sure if you have ever seen the movie “Twelve Angry Men”, the old version with Henry Fonda, if you have not rent it. In the movie there a jury member, a watch maker from Eastern Europe, who makes a comment that it is remarkable to be called for jury duty where one has nothing to gain or lose but must decide guilt or innocence of a man he does not know but the decision he makes may lead to the accused living or dieing. The juror was in a moral dilemma to do the right thing but sometimes we have to make decisions that can cost us our job or even our life and how we decide is the test of our morality. What are we willing to sacrifice in order to be able to look at oneself in the mirror? In WWII in Kragujevac Serbia, German soldiers were ordered to shoot some 1700 civilians which included 350 high school students. This was in retaliation to an ambush by Tito’s Partisans where several German soldiers were killed. Two German soldiers refused to shoot and in tern they were shot with the civilians, a supreme test of our humanity. Joseph Bissett our ambassador to Yugoslavia challenged our government policy on Yugoslavia and was fired. He placed morality above personal gain when all those around him did the opposite. Global Research has some great columnists here are some links from there.

Bissett James Canada’s former ambassador to Yugoslavia.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=listByAuthor&authorFirst=James&authorName=Bissett

Camp Bondsteel is there to protect AMBO pipeline (Albania, Macedonia, Bulgarian Oil), which is an entity registered in the US, a pipeline that is worth $1.1 billion. Seems like the Russians have undermined this somewhat with their agreement to construct a pipeline under the Black Sea through Bulgaria and Serbia to provide gas to the Balkans, Italy and Austria.
http://canadawatch.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=608&Itemid=58

Lewis MacKenzie Canada’s General in charge of UN and Canada’s Blue Helmets in Bosnia. Two of my students served under him.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8533

Scott Taylor well known journalist one of few that writes objectively.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8432

Nebojisa Malic expert on Serbian issues writes for Anti War.com. Brilliant.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=listByAuthor&authorFirst=Nebojsa&authorName=Malic

Tesla Tangent

Skoocum1 I don’t have any translation of the epic Serbian poetry. Both older generation Serbs and some Croats (Eastern Herzegovina) know these poems by heart. They are sung and accompanied with a gusle a one string instrument. Muslims say that when the gusle is played it usually leads to loss of two Muslim heads.
These poems are similar to Beowulf in the English language but Serbian Epic poetry is more prolific.. Initially these poems were passed on from generation to generation by blind guslars who sang them at gatherings and outside of inns. I think the blind guslars were the forerunners of our present buskers. These Epics deal with myth and legend of Serbian battles with the Muslims. Serb supper heroes take on Muslim supper heroes but the outcome is the same the Serb hero wins eventually. Serbian children even before they enter elementary school know many of these poems by heart. Will look for sources and let you know.