Thanks, again, Rafe

My admiration for you and your quest for publishing the truth (as nearly as you can discern it), grows with each article you write. Best wishes...

Great article Rafe

You know I probably wouldn't be upset if they turned that raise around and put it into our pensions.What was our recent raise? Two Per Cent? Then they jacked the gas up so high that we lost all that and more.

And I really wouldn't be so pissed if as you say they did actually work for it. When you say they are in the legislature for just a few days each year I only have to look at the Premiers absenteeism and scream.

When this Bill Passes I will be asking every member of the Legislature to tell me just why they voted for it. If I get the blah blah answers I will write them again and keep on writing till the next election. I can tell you they don't yet know what a boil on the butt feels like but they soon will.

Gotta love that sexism, Rafe

"Politically inspired hissy fit." How nice, Rafe. It took guts to say no to a huge raise, but you could never give a woman that much credit, could you?

Now we start to see why you don't like Carole James. She's a woman in a man's world. That's it, isn't it.

I thought you were just a grumpy old man. Now it's clear you're just a grumpy old boy.

Good point jonagold

It seems clear that Campbell is going to try and finesse the opposition with the Ontario formula.

If Ms James and her caucus hold the line and refuse to accept this provocation such that the Liberals are truly outed for what they're up to and only the Premier's party colleagues take the raise - then the people of the province may know exactly how tough and principled she actually is.

It would be a significant turning point for responsible political behavior in this province.

On the other hand, if she succumbs to the luster of gold - then Rafe's point may prove to be well-taken - not because of her sex but simply because of her character.

I would like to see them

I would like to see them come up with their own plan such as 3% above the cost of lining over the next 2 years as a catch up. And cut the pension idea.

Over 50% of British

Over 50% of British Columbians file tax returns with line 150 showing a yearly income below $30,000. Oh - any chance of an increase in the minimum wage which hasn't been raised in 5 years? It's always the same refrain when the well polished and self congratulatory minders of the province come to legislating for the poor - "we can't afford it".

bpither1

Not only has the minimum wage not been raised for 5 years. It has been reduced by $2 per hour under the guise of an "entrance wage". What a crock. The cost of living keeps skyrocketing and the poor get poorer. And they keep crowing about low unemployment and companies crying for help. I know which orifices their heads are occupying. Nobody will work when their net income every month leaves them in the red.

MLA's over paid as it is.

Other than Rafe's good points, the 3 member commission was from the 'elite' class, receiving 'elite' class wages. Also, let us not forget all the MLA's freebies, such as living allowances, travel allowances, etc., etc.

MLA's are not managers, rather elected, and almost all 'goose-step' to the party line, thus do run the legislature in the best interest of the public, rather what is best for their party, as such, they are overpaid shills.

I have a question...

The benefits....

Pensions were alluded to but nothing specific as far as I know.
Is there an MLA pension (indexed) in the works? In fact, this is where I would draw the line.

I believe at present the MLA is offered unlimited RRSP contribution rights according to his pay.

One also has to consider the very generous expense account of any MLA.

Jack's

They have an indexed pension but I think they have to serve a number of years to get it. And the pensions were mentioned . I beleive the Liberals are going to package it with the wage increase to make it harder for the MLA's to vote against the bill. Lali has already said he woul break party ranks.

It's just plain insulting....

The likes of Gordon Campbell go on about having to raise wages so as to be able to attract the "brightest and the best". If so, there should be no raise until after the next election so as to give the money a chance to do so. Even then, it should be nowhere near the magnitude of what is being proposed. So far, I haven't seen too many MLA's who could manage their way out of a wet paper bag in the private sector, or anywhere else.

Oh, and while they're at it, instead of the "brightest", how about throwing compassion, caring, common sense and a sense of fairness into the job description, especially that of the premier.

A 29/ 54% raise is a blatant money grab, plain and simple, and is an insult to the average working stiff who is footing the bill.

Nice to read the truth for a

Nice to read the truth for a change. The raise is not justified because the system is a sham and they simply don't deserve it. If they're working so hard, where are the results? Is poverty increasing or decreasing? Homelessness? Is health care improving or worsening? I don't care how many hours these puppets work, if it's ineffectual like Rafe says then cut their pay.

Our rulers can't find the money to shelter the poor but there's $100 million to build a luge run in Whistler. The refrigeration unit will be one of the biggest in North America. Bravo, mlas! Bravo, cabinet ministers! $100 million... what a superb achievement, what an improvement in the health and wellbeing of society.

Thanks for saying it!

"Now here comes a very important point which is badly overlooked: most of the time I actually spent with constituents also involved politics, namely my re-election prospects."

The work that is done outside the legislature is done only on the discretion of the MLA. There is no accountability there, and we shouldn't have to pay for someone to get re-elected by meeting with their "base." Why we don't link pay to the sitting days in the legislature is beyond me. I have no problem with an MLA making $100,000 a year if he/she is actually working for BC, and not for him or herself.

unreasonable proposal

"The Ontario formula" ,eh?
How about devoting some time and effort into explaining to everybody just what that entails?

It is easy to talk about political integrety when it applies to somebody else!

How many of you, out there, would accept a proposal that you NEVER get another raise?

This is political manuevering of the worst kind, and that is what dear old Rafe should scream about!

I think most people would throw a "hissy fit" if their income was to be kept at the current level in perpetuity!

As I see it Carole kept her cool, and her collegues decided to follow her lead (reluctantly or not); keep in mind that they all have a life and a future to consider!

Interesting take

From a member of the 1997 commission on MLA compensation:

http://www.publiceyeonline.com/archives/002406.html#more

More comparative information

http://www.taxpayer.com/pdf/MLA_Fair_Wages_June2006.pdf

Good one Rafe!

You are also right about the constituency assistants. Go into any office and while you are waiting you will see them dealing with constituents problems. I have often wondered if when the solve a problem, does the MLA take the credit. I also suspect that government MLA's do more constituency work which is of the non partisan variety. After all if you wanted a problem solved, you would not go to an opposition MLA unless it was the last resort and you had nothing to lose.

minimum wage

If the mlas need more bread...would logic not lead one to believe those on minimum wage must also require more bread?

Ontario formula

The legislation is rumoured to be based on Ontario MPP's compensation legislation which requires members to opt-out if they don't want the increased pay or pension plan. If the NDP vote against the increased pay/pension plan and then don't opt-out of the new compensation plan, they will, in the eyes' of the public, look like hypocrites by voting against the new compensation package but not opting out of the new, too generous (in the NDP's mind) compensation package for MLA's.

If the Opposition votes against the bill they will look like hypocrites if they don't opt out and, Campbell being the kind of politician he is, they will never be allowed to forget it.

On the other hand, the Opposition could propose a better bill of their own or try to amend the government bill - neither of which will work although a filibuster could be interesting since the Liberals want to end the session before the end of May.

On the other hand, an interesting option for the Opposition would be to vote NO then opt in but donate the extra salary (or the portion of it they deem to be excessive) to charity - adjusting the charitable donation by an appropriate amount each year while the government members take all the swill for themselves.

The other option - and the one that would give them the most mileage is to simply refuse to take anything but the current salary by not opting in.

Then, until the next election use that as a stick to beat the Liberals with regularly.

The last option is the best but it requires solidarity, dedication and sacrifice. James should go for it and her MLAs should support her to a fault.

Time to show both Erin Airton and Moe Sihota and Rafe Mair – as well as the people of BC – what a different kind of government the province could have if people voted for a party that cared about something other than the bottom line.

I would take a wage freeze!

"How many of you, out there, would accept a proposal that you NEVER get another raise?
This is political manuevering of the worst kind, and that is what dear old Rafe should scream about!
I think most people would throw a "hissy fit" if their income was to be kept at the current level in perpetuity!"

I would be willing to take a pay 'freeze' provided that I can sill afford shelter, food, medicine, health care, etc.

As to MLA raises, any raise should be comparable to a raise in minimum wage, or disability payments, and/or the increase in the cost of living.

I also think that a previous poster made an important point:

What is used to measure MLA performance? Are things better for the average citizen and family?

If they are not better, why should MLA's get a raise? !!!!!!!!

And as to pensions, what percentage of citizens even have a pension plan (besides CPP)?

As to attracting the best and the brightest into politics by offering more money - I guess that means the current crop of MLAs are the worst and the dimmest!

Jonagold 10 hours ago: How

Jonagold 10 hours ago: How the hell does your imbecilic little garble have anything to do with MLA PAY?
I believe that this is just this band of criminals way of trying to deflect from the Big Picture "The BC Rail Scandal" Actually I'd call this whole lot, traitors as TILMA is an act of treason as we are at war for Democracy and Freedom of Speech!
V Palmer what a joke he is anymore, he sold out to Gordo, shameless lout! He had Coleman on last week and could have put his sorry A-- on the hot seat butt no!
The CanWest media has big front page coverage of this Pay BS, but the public are becoming more aware of this fascist media as Campbell’s private mouthpiece! Not US the People’s “Right To Know”!

WE as a Free People (for how

WE as a Free People (for how long?) should be out on the streets (Peacefully) demanding the Resignation of the criminal organization called the BC Liberal Government Forthwith!
We also need an independent (made up of the general public and Attorneys who are well known advocates of and for the people) Auditor to go through OUR books and make public where OUR Tax Dollars have gone, vanished!
I decided three years ago to Never Step Foot Into Any Company Big or small who advertised in/on CanWest Global Media and to try and buy local!
A wee bit of Humour!
http://www.bank-b-gone.com/pointgreygordon/

LIke any other legislation,

LIke any other legislation, it can be changed. So Gordo makes the opposition either take the money or no raises again is simply so much BS. His greedy bunch can get unelected next time around and the pay could then be revisited. I do recall a lot of collectives, pensions for government wokers getting cut when this gang took over. There are still court cases on those issues. SO do you dambness Gordo and wait for the great unwashed to vote you a differnt line of work.

MLA's pay raise as BC Rail

MLA's pay raise as BC Rail Hush Money?

DPL

I agree.

If James has any sense she'll vote NO - decline the raise or take it as a charitable donation - and make Gordon Campbell wear what is obviously a political move to put the opposition in a hypocritical position.

The Opposition should call his bluff and raise him.

A Raise! For What?

A Raise! For What?

BC Jim Van Rassel believes the recent Independent report recommending wage increases for MLA’s and the Premier of 30-50% to be “larcenous”. The increase for the Premier alone is equivalent to the average household income for a family of four living in British Columbia.

“Frankly I haven’t seen anyone in the government, in particular the Premier to be doing work of any value other than wander around aimlessly pretending to appear to be working and getting his picture on the TV and in newspapers. In any other job Campbell would have been laid off by now, he is nothing short of a lame duck.”.

Van Rassel argues that “Carole James has taken the principled position over this issue and if she can hold the rest of her caucus (save for selfish Harry Lali) to do the same, she will have beaten Campbell at his own game.”

Van Rassel asserts, “Only in British Columbia is the Premier considered to be a good leader by the mainstream press because he decides to vote himself and his flunkies a huge raise…what a pathetic joke this government has become. They should ALL be ashamed.”

Van Rassel also believes that reports such as this should feature a disclosure date so they cannot be used for partisan advantage. “Here we have news coming out of the BC Rail trial which shows what most of us already know, which is, how dirty and rotten the BC Liberal government really is, and voila another convenient distraction. This government is so anemic and pitiful it needed to get businessman Jimi Pattison to start paying for Beautiful BC ads because the government got caught using taxpayer’s money to promote itself.”

“It’s always the hardworking taxpayer taking the hit for the silly games of BC politics.”

Jim Van Rassel

Awesome article but how to enact changes

Loved the article. Rafe certainly seems to know all the system warts. Would he know how we can possibly change the monster??? Gives me a headache just to think of it.

The only MLA I'd give that

The only MLA I'd give that kind of raise to is Jenny Kwan. Her first term earned it.

too much for too little

For seasonal workers, MLA's think way too much of themselves. Lets not forget who insisted the HEU take a pay cut and let the teachers go on strike over a smaller increase... The audacity of this "recommended" increase and the additional perks is beyond the pale.
I could live with 4-5% over 4 years with no additional perks (considering MLA's have always gotten cost of living increases, have a stellar medical plan, travel, food, entertainment and other perks)
British Columbians already pay too much in the way of taxes; and how does every one think the gov is going to make these funds available for their pay increase and perks anyway? Because as we all know, there is not enough money in the coffers for Social assistance for people who genuinely need it or housing for the homeless or even a tax break for us blue collars; user fee's and cost down loading is the rule of the day to make up for the shortages the government is constantly moaning about... so every one had better start emailing and calling their government representative or we will see more money going from our wallets to pay for government stylists, cars, plane tickets for the MLA wife/ husband/ golf buddy, home redecorations and so on.

I dont know who said it but all it takes for evil to triumph is for good people to say nothing.

Raises

How about MLAs bargain their wages same way they deal with public sector workers? They have dealt out many contracts of late. So how about they take the average of the raises they felt everyone else was worth and that is their wage? So a few years back there was a 15% cut they get that and now can be fighting to win back what they lost forget about inflation. Gee wonder if they would learn to be more careful in dealing with the lowly public sector.

MLA pay raise

So, let me get this straight... the MLA's (of all stripes?) need a raise in salaries.
OK, let's consider what legislation they have dealt with since the previous spring sitting of the Legislature. Our illustrious Premier decides that a fall sitting is not necessary; with little or no reaction from the Loyal Opposition, so no discussion even, on such a draconian bill now known as "TILMA". These people should be hung out to dry and twist in the wind, while the minimum wage group throw stones at them. The sooner the labour movement take off their blinders and get rid of their infatuation with the NDP, the better we all will be, union and non-union alike, and include also those idealists who put forward their names to become city councillors, as they will soon realize that the corporations will ride roughshod over any by-laws that are in place to protect the average home-owner in this province (not to forget Alberta), because that would interfere with their RIGHT to earn a profit. We need a true Labour Party in this province.

Politicians voting themselves a pay raise stinks

In Nanaimo, the Council just voted for their third pay raise in 18 months. It stinks to high heaven.

City workers are grovelling for a 3-4% increase every year, and the City Fathers get three raises in the same term of office. The actual pay scale is totally irrelevant. What stinks is the frequency of reviews and the fact that there are two laws; one for the workers and one for the lah-dee-dahs. How many times do we have to see this before we get enraged?

If the unions have to tighten their belts, the Mayor and Council, or the MLA's should tighten theirs too.

In my opinion, having seen the Nanaimo Council debates on TV, it is actually the City staff who are responsible for this debacle. They are the ones continuously checking the salary horizons and recommending the increases. In Nanaimo, the person responsible is Jerry Berry. I don't know who would be his counterpart in the provincial government, but their actions are reprehensible.

If the mucky-mucks are worth three raises in 18 months, so are the grunts at the bottom of the scale. And by the way, it is the taxpayer's money they are spending, and taxes keep rising out of control.

Politicians voting themselves a pay raise stinks

In Nanaimo, the Council just voted for their third pay raise in 18 months. It stinks to high heaven.

City workers are grovelling for a 3-4% increase every year, and the City Fathers get three raises in the same term of office. The actual pay scale is totally irrelevant. What stinks is the frequency of reviews and the fact that there are two laws; one for the workers and one for the lah-dee-dahs. How many times do we have to see this before we get enraged?

If the unions have to tighten their belts, the Mayor and Council, or the MLA's should tighten theirs too.

In my opinion, having seen the Nanaimo Council debates on TV, it is actually the City staff who are responsible for this debacle. They are the ones continuously checking the salary horizons and recommending the increases. In Nanaimo, the person responsible is Jerry Berry. I don't know who would be his counterpart in the provincial government, but their actions are reprehensible.

If the mucky-mucks are worth three raises in 18 months, so are the grunts at the bottom of the scale. And by the way, it is the taxpayer's money they are spending, and taxes keep rising out of control.

Dave A

I think you should check some of the facts about the short sitting. Under legislature rules they managed to extend it. Check Hansard.

Par for the course

Rafe; remember when you could get a beer fo 20 cents?
I remember gas costing 36 cents oer gallon for years.
Bananas, 10 cents a pound.
Give me a break.
I am sure you didn't work many months during the year.
Talk show radio hosts must get 2 months off per year.
The NDP indignation about this pay raise is over the top.
The raise is okay. All parties get it. And there are only 79 people getting this raise.
It can't be compared to a minimum wage increase, which wou;d affect all of us ( millions }
Who do you expect to take up this cause for the MLA's?
A groundswell of public support to raise the compensation of politicians is not ever going to happen. so we need an independent review panel to judge this.
Make up an independent panel of ypou own making, and I am sure they would come to the same conclusion.
This article is pure liberal politics. It should be discounted as crap.

Privatization Investigations Inc.

....maybe the NDP should just use the extra money to hire a team of really good private investigators. ;-)

Mr. Mair, this whole screed

Mr. Mair, this whole screed reads like an admission to the fact that you were simply not a very good legislator. It sounds to me like your constituents didn't get their money's worth!

You presume that since you and your cohort spent most of your constituency face-time on political manouvering, all other MLAs are pretty much alike.

If it was your business to toe the party line, hadn't you at least enough curiosity to find out who drew it? You might have spent some of that time in office attempting to shape policy rather than hanging on to Bennett's coattails.

You might have spent some of your time on committee actually pushing for results rather than resigning yourself to inevitablity and riding it out until your "retirement" after a meager six years.

There is a mechanism in place for the adjudication or a member's performance: the election. If an MLA does a decent job, they more than earn their pay - seriously, is $76,000 really that much? If they are imcompetent and constituents fail to exercise their responsibility to remove them, who is to blame?

I think most of this whining about MLAs' salaries boils to the fact that contsituents are addicted to the availability of a convenient scapegoat and too lazy to take the initiative in informing their MLA of their needs.

Democracy has nothing to with relieving the citizenry of their responsibility to stay active and informed. If that were the case, a dictatorship would be the bee's knees. You'd never have to vote!

If our MLAs are acting without our knowlege or consent, or not acting at all, and we do nothing but gripe about how much we voluntarily pay them, we have no one to blame but ourselves.

What Rafe said in essence is

What Rafe said in essence is that politics in BC is a game.

A game played by an elite few who control the lives and wills of other by power and manipulation.

And he is quite correct that the leader controls party affiliations and candidacy.

Which ,eans if a back bencher is vocal and unwilling to submit on all votes, he/she will not get another shot at running under the party flag.

And only the most cavalier of individual will be able to make a repeat as an independant after being the bad boy or girl in caucus.

Again, all the more reason for changing the power structure in BC away from party/leadership dominance to voter dominance.

Mike Summers
vanderhoof BC

Rafe, the only criticism I

Rafe, the only criticism I have is your description of Carole James objections to the rip-off as "a hissy fit".

I know you're an old fart, and I know you're an old Socred shill, and I know I agree with you in only a few areas but those areas of agreement are important to me and because of that I've tried hard to overlook the fact you too often come across as a dinosaur.

But this is just a tad much. Carole James did not have a hissyfit. She spoke out against an egregious abuse of a deeply flawed system. Of COURSE her motivation was political. So's yours. So's mine. To a feminist the political is deeply personal, and the personal is political, and at least James didn't lie down and play dead.

And what a co-inky-dinky that this comes up at the time it does. And we're all busy talking and writing about an obvious trough fest instead of about Basi-Virk-Basi, which might be one of the most blatant examples of corruption in government to come down the pike since oh, back in Vander Zilch's day. It should bring down the provincial government and shake the foundations of the federal LiEbral party.

Then there's the recently revealed whisper that the RCMP and CSIS knew ahead of time about the Air India bombing plot and did phuque all. Oh well, what the hey, eh, just a couple of hundred east indians, not worth putting down the donuts for that.

WHY do people continue to discuss and take seriously a system which is rotten to the core? Each and every party in government provincially or federally stinks like an over-used under-cleaned outhouse on a hot day.

We need to renegotiate confederation. Clean house. Kick out the bums.

And Rafe, you need to take some sensitivity training. We not only hold up half the sky, we're apt to pull it down around your head. Your attitude to and about women, particularly feminists, sucks goats old man. Check your calendar. This is 2007. The women's movement has changed this society , changed this culture, moved mountains, and is still moving them. You can clean up your patrist act or you can get tossed out of the lifeboat.

Thanks Anne

Bill Tieleman's column for today (24 Hours) is worth looking at. You can also find it here:
http://billtieleman.blogspot.com/2007/05/liberal-mlas-want-pay-pension-raise.html

Almost as much as the Basi/Virks Railway trial, which may still be derailed before it pulls into the station, these raises are a turning point issue for the province.

James has a chance to do something that has the potential to change the politics of the province and illustrate clearly and conclusively what the BC Liberals are, and have always been about. Thank God there's a woman in a position of authority who may well have the strength to play the right cards and hold them, despite the personal consequences.

It's way past time someone did.

In Defense of Rafe

I still think Rafe is right on in this article. I was never a Rafe fan and I will still take some of his comments with more than a grain of salt. A "hissy fit" by any definition is NOT gender specific. One could get exorcised about the reference to Rafe being "old" and maybe some sensitivity training is warranted for those people. Whether Rafe was a good MLA or not is irrelevant. He left finding his niche elsewhere and if the influence he had was any indication he was damn good at his job not that I was ever a fan.

As well if Carole James had expressed some reservations about the selection of the "independent" commission at the beginning as David Schreck did, I might consider her stand highly principled. To wait till the fan is distributing the stuff and then express indignation is suspect. Reading the political winds and going with the winds is fine but it is political opportunism.

The wage increases are completely out of line. None of them work that much harder than anyone else. They require no specific training or skill. The job can be done by used car dealers, mill workers, loggers, home makers, people just out of university, social workers, retail clerks etc. More than half of their time is spent on holding on to the job.

Van. Sun today-"What it costs to serve"

The Sun today ran an article, "What it costs to serve" and asked 16 defeated or retired politicians about the "cost". of serving in the Legislature.

More or less they all supported the pay raise and guess what...they all are B.C. Liberals!

No indication if The Sun will be asking retired or defeated NDP'ers the same question.

Skywalker

Seems to me you acknowledge a learning curve for Rafe.

Doesn't fairness require the same courtesy to Carole James?

This bill, if it's structured as rumoured, will be her Waterloo if she doesn't step up now and meet the ethical test.

The past, as they say, is prologue

Fundamental Causes

Right on, Rafe.

Seems to me the problem with politicians in our culture is we treat them like royalty.

Take away the palaces, take away the perks, take away the pensions.

Give them a taste of the realities the rest of have to face in our working lives.

To: G West

Learning curves are for rookies on the back bench and opposition members before they become the leaders. I have no time for a learning curve for someone who went to the top job right away and now wants to be Premier. It is my opinion that Carole's inexperience in the cut-throat arena of partisan politics is what gave Campbell another four years after all the pain he caused in his first term. It gave the economy time to be in "his favour" and for him to try to claim the credit to a naive public. I personally am tired of hearing the same cliches from Carole when she is asked to comment on something.

She may well take the high ground in her efforts but an opportunity like she had in 2005 will not come around again. Even if things get worse for the liberals, say a Basi/Virk scandal, a change in liberal leadership will create a whole new dynamic.

Skywalker

I don't disagree with you and, for the most part, if you've been following my narrative here I've been extremely critical of the NDP and their milquetoast approach to 'opposition'.

That said, they are the only viable option available, especially given the fact that we are still saddled with FPP elections (at a minimum in 2009) and perhaps longer.

The fact is that there is only one MLA left on the opposition side of the house who held a seat in 2001. Only 2 members of research staff were kept on after 2001 as well.

Therefore, whether you and I like it or not, there is going to be a steep learning curve. I think the Opposition is finally beginning to mount the kind of challenge in the Legislature that's one of the things necessary in order to ensure that there won't be another 4 years of Campbell after 2009.

James made a very stupid move over the rejected 15% wage increase last session. It indicated exactly how much of a tyro she was.

And now, if she doesn't step up and put her money where her mouth is on this upcoming legislation then she's toast.

However, I think that the right stand now, along with the hubris, which is rapidly eating away at Campbell can make a real difference in the next election. Lance Armstrong doesn’t vote in BC elections.

Even if Campbell's gone, the millstone of this pay legislation - given the fact that the Opposition DOES NOT TAKE IT ON PRINCIPLE - will become a tumor that eats away at the Liberal party, no matter who leads it into the next election.

My view.

Much as I don't like it, that's about all progressives in this province can hope for.

I agree she needs to toughen up a lot more; still, I've seen a real improvement in her performance and in that of several of her colleagues.

The Liberals, on the other hand, are increasingly shrill, inept and rudderless - including Carole Taylor. Tune in on the Legislative channel for while and see if you don’t agree.

learning curve

hehe learning curve - how about they get their 6-bux-sux learning wage for the first term? if they can do the job well enough to get re-elected then they get proper pay. how does that sound?

Are you learning?

As you well know in some constituencies any party hack can get elected and re-elected, that does not prove they are any good!

About learning curve: It is proven by now that past experience, in business for instance, is not of much use.

So where exactly should a new politician pick up the experience?
James has the aptitude and the willingness to lead, she could easily have pulled back after her illness, remember?

People complained about Clark, now they have the opposite with James, and still complain!

Personally I would have preferred Dix, but he will succeed whereever he is put.

G West

"The fact is that there is only one MLA left on the opposition side of the house who held a seat in 2001. Only 2 members of research staff were kept on after 2001 as well."

I have a hard time believing that the above was an accident. The party brass had a hand in ensuring that this was going to happen. They could not or would not defend any action of the NDP government of the 90's because of the perceptions created by the media manipulation of that era. The party planned a revival hoping the public would forget and they could truly claim they were different. I actually heard a lot of anger at any of the veterans who were thinking of running again in 2005.

The problem with the strategy is that it could be interpreted as the party validating all the nefarious claims of the CanWest Media.

So while we stew, James learns and quite frankly that is a small comfort particularly when the NDP are lower in the polls than the government. That is normally unheard of if the opposition is doing their job.

As to "I think the Opposition is finally beginning to mount the kind of challenge in the Legislature that's one of the things necessary in order to ensure that there won't be another 4 years of Campbell after 2009." I'm thinking that it may already be too late. The polls show it and if Campbells sits back and hands out a few crumbs as he did with the public service and teachers, he will be back. The economy must take a downward slide in the next year to show his nasty ways or he will be back. Again, I hate to see everyone suffer in either event.

In will agree that the pay and pension issue has been cleverly used by Campbell to paint the NDP into a corner. The ideal solution would have been to concede some wages in exchange for a modest pension. All of the liberals particularly those who ranted against the old pension plan are now eager to get their hand in the till because quite a few are considering getting out of the "game". Certainly the true Liberals must cringe at the spectacle of Gordo and his spending for liberal/socred/reform insiders.

"And now, if she doesn't step up and put her money where her mouth is on this upcoming legislation then she's toast." She will have to lose the next election along with some seats before someone will bell the cat. I just don't have the patience for her learning curve. I really do miss Joy MacPhail.

Skywalker

Again, I don't disgree with much of the foregoing. I'm not quite as negative about the 2009 prospect though. I know it's a cliche but a week is an eternity in politics - just look at what's happened in the past 3 weeks to the CPC.

Are there any 'true Liberals' left in Campbell's caucus?

My point is that the whole caucus has to opt out of the pay bill (assuming of course that all the rumours about the upcoming legislation are true) or she has no chance. It she does accept the challenge then I think this could well work and some of the other scandals in the closet will have come home to roost before 2009.

I miss Joy McPhail too.

Just came across another opinion on the same issue that's not very different from mine:

http://billtieleman.blogspot.com/2007/05/liberal-mlas-want-pay-pension-raise.html

Enough talk, where is the action?

This MLA pay raise thing makes me sick. I walk past people downtown every day sitting on the sidewalk begging because there is a lack of social housing and these idiots want a huge pay increase? If anyone knows of a protest in the works in Vancouver in reaction to this, please let me know. I'll be there.

Saw it comin'

Predictably, the Vancouver Stun came out with a full page article today (page B3- "What it costs to serve") with a bunch of quotes of ex (Liberal) MLA's crying the blues about how much politics took them away from their families, how much work it is, how much they deserve a raise, etc. It didn't work on this boy, for one. I can make up my own mind, thank you very much.

As for the MLA's complaints, boo effin hoo.

pension plan?

There is an

to a pension plan - yet the media has never really explained anything about it.

I know that in place of a pension MLAs are presently allowed a very generous RRSP contribution option. Is this about to change to a regular indexed pension plan?

If so, then that's where the public should place their objection.

Taxpayer money is wasted on Federal government pension plans, most of which are equivalent to a substantial salary in today's world.

pensions again...

gary writes...

I think you're wrong here... MLA's do not have an indexed pension plan - they have a generously extended RRSP contribution limit.

I agree that the no#s for

I agree that the no#s for raise is just another Liberal Dirty Shaft smoke screen to slip in their very lucrative taxpayer funded pension and also the BC Rail and "OUR" BC Legislature Blgs. Raid Scandal.
Province 09/07 rag A16 at least they are consistant with same page. lol
Gordo still thinks his big contribution "US" to NWO/NAU king bushco via TILMA will work.
He and a few, a very few, forget that mankind will be the victors again because WE have the "WILL" and the "Compassion" towards our fellow man!

As to politicians, all media

As to politicians, all media reporters, and US the Taxpayer WE pay their extremely high salaries plus perks
"Each man must for himself alone decide what is right and what is wrong, which course is patriotic and which isn't. You cannot shirk this and be a man. To decide against your conviction is to be an unqualified and excusable traitor, both to yourself and to your country, let men label you as they may: Mark Twain

If... the machine of government... is of such a nature that it requires you to be the agent of injustice to another, then, I say, break the law:" Henry David Thoreau, On the Duty of Civil Disobediance, 1849

MLA's pay

MLA's pay should be based on the average wage of British Columbians. I don't care if it's the same, or a multiple, or whatever. The point is, if they get a raise, it should be because their policies have increased the average wage of the people they serve.
FYI, the average earnings of people employed 52 weeks of the year in BC was about $38,500 last year.

Canada Day is July 1st! This

Canada Day is July 1st! This could be the Greatest Day that ALL CANADIANS should be out in full force in Ottawa, Victoria, Vancouver, all cities and towns to save OUR country from the fascist Corporate Pimps S Harper's Conservatives and P Martin's (S Dionne you've gotta be joking) Liberals!
The head of the Government and the head of the military should be charged with "War Crimes Against Humanity" for being complacent to torture and if they getaway with this now, who says it won't or doesn’t happen here in Canada already against the ordinary Canadians?
An ex-military Peacekeeper!
RIPhttp://sisis.nativeweb.org/sov/allnahan.html
http://harrietspirit.blogspot.com/
Remember Betty at Eagle Bluffs an Environmental Warrior/Hero she gets 10 months in jail (while violent pedophiles get out) against the Campbell fascist criminal gave a free pass to his Environmental Criminals! WE need a new law to bring these Corporations before a/the World Court for Crimes Against the Environment!
http://bettysearlyedition.blogspot.com/2007/02/bettys-final-submissions-to-madam.html
YES MLA are paid way too much to steal OUR taxes! Now if they were there For US The People of BC a reasonable raise would be OK
as it is they should only be paid for hours worked for US and docked big bucks for all secret backroom deals with the Greedy, Power hungry Corporations = satan/devil

Pay increase smoke screen

Pay increase smoke screen for BC Legislature Raids 12/28/03!
Thank you BC Mary, Bill Tieleman, House of Infamy and anymore I've missed!

Conrad Black a pathetic, Greedy little man, what a laugh a Lord says a lot for the house of Lords, the rich get greedier and greedier and are always looking out for back stabbers, who can they trust?
No one what a horrable life they must live?
Lots of bucks for their souls!
Satan is having a great harvest of souls around this planet in the last 15yrs!

Moe Sihota...

says this A.M. on CBC Radio that our MLA's are worth it, 'cause they work hard and long.
Very good -- except that the MLAs are getting a 50% increase (with perks), while BC citizens are restricted to single digits. Is Moe REALLY saying that BC workers are NOT working hard?