Rafe, Rafe, Rafe...

The free-flow of treasure that both the LIEberals and CONformers will have to continue, if they ever hope to continue 'in power'. Otherwise neither will have the needed majority to form a stable government.

Stability is what is needed in order to wrestle the situation to the ground and re-establish the sort of 'dream-like' past that you desire.

Razzberry, say I.

British Columbia has been robbed from the start of its entry into confederation with 'the canada' and should withdraw at once!

The entire commission that was its genesis was divided and only a minority report was accepted, in fear of 'the americans' spreading like wildfire from the gold-fields of California to the new strikes in BC.

Fear was the driving factor and it was as bad a motivator then as it is now.

In order for us, together, on the norther portion of the continent of North America (that area now called Canada) to continue as a 'confederation' each province needs to start exercising the full powers that the ORIGINAL CONFEDERATION gave them.

Unfortunately not all provinces are equal, and this will be the downfall of the confederation, as was put forward in his original thoughts by Dr. Helmcken.

I believe that, were BC to exercise its full rights under the confederation documents of 1871 (when BC entered) that we here in BC would have control over our own resources (thru our own banking system and currency - ALLOWED BY CONFEDERATION!), our own courts and legal structures (thru the BC constabulary - gone in the 1950's at Ottawas' insistence and by undermining the costs of policing and 'undercutting' with some 'initially' cheap RCMP {that are now outrageously expensive!}), and with those elements we would be able to better detect the political influences flowing from Ottawa and national based parties into the BC provincial body politic. Not to mention the freer hand we would feel to negotiation of the use of our natural resources ourselves, rather than thru representatives that care not one whit for those things that matter to us here!

Ask any Ontario MP what a salmon looks like!

Ask a federal LIEberal or NonDP'er why thier party should be 'connected' both morally and financially to any of the provincial 'counterparts'? An answer to this that does not include 'to influence provincial action(s) towards Ottawa' is a LIE.

The sooner 'the canada' butts out from BC the better in my book, we have sent far too much treasure in tribute to their 'two-nations' view already.

"How long will it be before you answer your doctor's questions online to India with the necessary drugs supplied from Calcutta?"

The sooner the better! The doctors, dentists, pharmacists and veterinarians from India I've dealt with have all been top notch.

As long as we make it a priority to pay off foreign debts, limit foreign ownership of Canadian land, and let the value of the Canadian dollar settle where it belongs relative to our productivity, this is not a huge problem. If our productivity is too low and we spend too much money on foreign goods and services, our dollar will simply drop to the point where it's cheaper to buy locally. We can raise our productivity by linking any corporate tax breaks to capital equipment investments and corporate training initiatives. It would also help if students currently majoring in Art History would switch to something that's actually needed, such as Nursing, and recognize Art History as a weekend hobby, not a career.

Instead of trying to woo Quebec with more money, we need to focus on a few other things:

1) Amend the constitution so the head of state is the Governer General instead of a foreign queen. This would likely convert at least 20% of Quebec separatists into federalists without costing us a nickel. It would also please a lot of non-Quebeckers (including me). Since Blair has given the Royals an opportunity to familiarize themselves with fast-food drive-throughs, an unemployed Charles could land himself a useful job as an order taker at McDonalds. Seems they're starting to sell some reasonably healthy stuff in addition to the usual greaseburgers.

2) Tell Quebec that if they leave, we will redraw borders in such a way as to force them to take Ottawa along with them. That's a brutal threat to make, but sometimes tough action is needed.

YAYYY!

I support this 'clear answer' initiative all the way!

Oh Good:

Not too many Lefties yet ! ( Must be sleeping off the Vodka hangovers ).

Happy New Year to ALL !!!

Here we go again with another genuflection towards another so -called LIEberal brainiac messiah....

If its mobility is relegated to slithering around with no legs and forked tongue then it's a serpent in disguise.

Rafe's article seems to imply an opposite take towards the same result. The old classic LIEberal method was to curry favour of Quebec aka ass-ki$$ so it wouldn't separate. It seems Rafe is instead implying Dion's tact be based on the opposite premise that Canada not separate from Quebec.

Perhaps we should have a Royal Commission
(by Pro-enviro Dion ? ) on how much of an " environmental impact " all this Quebec separation matter has had, ie the wasted tax dollars and the trickle down effect. The travel, the pollution, wasted energy, paperwork, (ie the needless waste of trees)etc. etc. as byproducts of this futile political - mythology exercise must be mind - boggling.

One gets rather tired of the chicken little "sky is falling" rhetoric...anyone heard of " Don't cry wolf?" Seems what our Federal LIEberals are all about, spinning the same old tired fairy tales, and perhaps the Public is both tired of it AND waking up.

What the hell is a so called "leftie" .

You guys keep on using this stupid buzzword without explaining what you really mean, which means that you have no idea what you're talking about ?

If Dion wants to save Canada, he and the people will have to realize once and for all, that the NAFTA, WTO, IMF etc. are criminal organizations and foreign investment is a fraud and a con-job.

It is nothing more than the temporary inflation of a country's money supply from abroad and then endless flow of exploitation and now also the destruction of democratic decision making, under "rules based trading regime". They make the rules and we lie down.

Compared to this danger, Quebec is chickenfeed.

Happy New Year in a Canada, free of Harper, NAFTA and foreign investment.

Ed Deak.

The deeper I gaze into my crystal ball, the more disheartened I get. I think the great Canadian split will be short violent and very nasty.

I will not be Quebec going but BC.

Reasons:

The large asian and south asian population will grow very tired dealing with the first nations people. People opposed to any land deals with first nations will be ellected.

A large part of the population will grow extremely dissatisfied with our electoral process, regional, provincially, and federally, with many seein the process a mere sham, with show case elections. Our population is growing more and more didtant from the political process. The GVRD and TransLink are prime examples where the taxpayer has no say or no vote!

A large part of the population will tire of our old boys/girls club of MP's and MLA's, where the 'party' has all but taken away the voice of the people.

Change will happen. A very anti federal government BC politcal party will be elected reflecting the above views. Disputes will become normal as the 'BC' government ignores the federal courts. Provincial police will engage RCMP. Troops will be sent but local militia's resist and mutiny. Chaos and civil war will happen.

Don't think it will happen? Not in 20 or 30 years, but in 50 years, just maybe.

One more point, the above was the mild version!

Dion on an enviro -campaign will not bode well for the west, particularly BC and Alberta.

It's simply another serpent's guise to milk and plunder the West in colonialism mode, and politically pretend the East has no environment. Same old Canadian political equilibrium...... why fix it if it ain't broke, why re-invent the LIEberal wheel, especially if it has many more miles to still be driven before the wheels finally fall off ?

It's energy efficent for the LIEberals.

Happy New Year to you all.

As if Dion as PM could or would be able to control anything. The direction of this country is set by the elite corporatocracy and Dion, like Harper, is their boy. Why do we cling to the illusion that some new face is going to change that? Would Dion abrogate nafta? Of course not. Would he stop the vast theft of public wealth by amending the bank act and stopping the private banks from printing money? Never heard a peep about it from him.

Nice article, Rafe, but thin gruel indeed.

Cycling Computer.

You might want to check the accuracy rates of radiographs and other diagnostic media read in India vs. the ones read here in North America. You can find the data in any of several medical journals.
For simple breaks - which could equally well be read by a competent Canadian 'technician' - the Indian results are fine.

For more complex diagnostic chores, the accuracy rate plummets like a stone dropped in a well.

Grumpy:

Your Translink/RAV etc expertise adds to the bigger picture.

What IF B.C. had been a more autonomous entity, want to hazard a guess we wouldn't even have gone near this RAV/SkyTrain/Canada Line scam ? ( I won't get into the old " FLYER bus's " built in Central Canada ).

The ONE and ONLY reason we have this SkyTrain/RAV boondoggle is because of Confederation, simply add it to the B.C. "red-ink" cost of Confederation.

Latest scam is a planned joint venture multi- level parking lot being shared by the RiverRock Casino and the RAV /Canada Line. They will share the use...ie RAV clientele will use it during Casino off -hours...or is it Casino clientele get to use it during RAV line off -hours.... w-h-a-t-e-v-e-r .

Otherwise, really, what is B.C.'s true place and subsequent role in this tired old Canadian model ?

I guess all you Quebec haters know that the top marginal rate of tax on wage income in Quebec is 48.2% while in BC it's 43.7%.

Why do these conversations almost always degenerate into an exercise in slamming Quebec and boosting BC as a separate entity.

Just what this country needs, more internal divisions!

Here, our neo-conservative US Empire Loyalists are again this year, picking up from where they left off last year, plumping for their policies which effectively sow divisive national chauvanisms, especially Anglo-centric/Alberta and BC Conservative based ones, and maintain the old divisive class and national inequalities, and as serve or outright advocate for the breakup of the country, in order to hand it over to their real ideological Massah here; a US Empire that would build and control a quasi-fascist, corporatist envisioned, North Amerikan Union super state. (Which they attempt to hide by playing to a narrow, already much discredited, Conservative Western Canada Concept sentimentality and audience.)

Clearly, they have the momentum and the backing of the ruling financial class, and the major "leadership" mouthpieces or but still way too polite and token resistance of frightened leadership in all the formal parties to the so-called Canadian democracy and State. And they have the corporatist propaganda media which facilitates the spread of their North Amerikan Union, break-up of the country ideology and schemes.

And unless there is a huge awakening that quickly occurs here within the whole country and all its national parts, that links up with a resurgent and awakened working class interest and willingness to take the corporatists on and transform our society in bold new democratic directions, away from the predominance of US Empire influence, it is entirely possible they may succeed at their betrayal of the country enterprise.(Or at least take us even further and more precipitously down that road, such that it will be harder to return even to this starting point, in defence and advocacy of a more democratic and egalitarian direction of country-wide development.)

Though, on the other side, and working against even their current enjoyment of the high ground advantage (strategically and tactically, as opposed to morally speaking) and ruling class sponsored momentum, is the increasingly apparent decline of the United States itself: it's position in the world and the state of its internal affairs and economy at home. The cracks of corruption, huge internal poverty, and re-emerging class and race-based unrest, and their own increasingly war ravaged and drained economy, which drains away ever more daily in Iraq, Afghanistan and throughout the Middle East. (Pay close attention to this new Sen. Edwards candidate who has emerged as a contending presidential nominee for the Dems. In the context of Conservative, Right-Christian Fundamentalist USA, he is sounding increasingly radical, and has the backing of official Labour there and the growing anti-war sentiment. It's not so much as I trust him as a serious solution, but you know he is playing to a growing sentiment amongst the US populace, and especially within its economically reeling working class. Even if his motives are entirely opportunist, that he would dare take the positions he does in what has been an extreme Conservative/Fascist dominated USA, is indicative of a fundamental ground shift occurring there, just below our field of vision, or at least that of our ruling class beholden media.)

So, as this class war of ideas will continue here, likewise will it out there in the real world of people's daily lives, within an increasingly fragile and reactionary capitalist system. Such that while the corporatist class and its bootlick supporters clearly have the huge advantage of ruling class support, that of its deep pockets and media, and of no small significance, the ruling class managed State with all its various defensive/offensive arms, other events which work to undermine and mitigate against them all, are also loose and evolving in the real world, in "Amerika" and in our own country.

From previous post...

And even listening here, to the random voices that appear and disappear from time to time, there is a growing awareness of the actual world of capitalism, and even in the major "propaganda media" , is evidence periodically of even the poor, wrestling with the means of finding their voice and exerting a power. All this too will continue.

Which adds up to me, to the ever present and increasing possibility of pleasant "surprises", for us, :-) such as may yet grab our enemies here by the short and curlies.

We are back would-be maestros of "rightie" quasi-fascism, betrayal of the country to the US Empire, like the foreign fascist serving Vichyists you really are at heart, and servants of greed driven class privilege. Up against our being here, you have never been able to hold your own, but slip back into irrelevance and silence. :-)

Amen to that. Definitely not Rafe's finest piece of analysis.

Nahhhh....

That can't be Comrade Coyote ...

The posted diatribe is deficient in the normal pre - 2007 " cuss - word percentage " .

W-H-O actually wrote it ???....(unless this is DAY ONE of 2007 New Years' Resolutions).

Hurray for Ed!

I've always wanted to bring up the "leftie" thing. I've been called everything from Harry Reagan to Harry Mao depending on the time of day. A number of posters writing into this forum seem to think that name calling equates intelligence. Let me be the hundredth to inform you that it indicates the complete opposite! I read the stories on this page semi regularly and it really pisses me off to see stupid people pretending that labeling others with whatever brand indicates to them something but is meaningless to thinking people. Let me propose something as a New Years Resolution: IGNORE THE TROLLS!

thankyou...Harry

Harry....the true believers always think that anybody who expresses any independent thought is immediately in some opposing camp, because their narrow little minds can not imagine any degree of independence.

As I wrote before, after many years of studies into ideologies, I have come to the conclusion that the so called "political left and right wings" are located vertically, like the C and F on thermometers, screaming at each other, with a thin line separating them and the higher, the more dictatorial they are.

I call this "The Nut Ladder" and when we look at their plans, policies and actions it becomes obvious, why ?

So, what were Hitler, Stalin and Mao? Left, or right ? I've heard Mao described as both a right and left wing communist in major publications.

I've been called "the running dog of capitalist imperialists" and a "government hater", and was sentenced to the gulags, in absentia, by the communists, and a "leftie, pinko, socialist, commie, government lover" by the capitalists.

Yet, all I ever wanted to be is free to think and act. Which stinks to high heaven to the servants of the politbureau/corporate director, collectivizer fascists, in the name of "freedom" of course.

Ed Deak.

Cycling Commuter..

Rather than amending our constitution, we just need to directly elect (50+1 via runoff vote) our Governor General and allow the constitutional powers as written to be exercised by their office rather than the PMOs.

These require no constitutional changes, and would rather allow our government to act more along the lines of the constitution, which never was intended to allow MPs to self appoint themselves.

Specifically:

a) Appointment of PM and Cabinet from legislature.
b) Dissolution of Parliament.

This would have a few results:

1) Eliminate the ability for the PM to set size of own cabinet, and bribe MPS with ministerial pay.
2) Allow minority governments to work properly as the GG would be the only one able to pull the plug.
3) Guarantee that the real head of state has the confidence of a majority of Canadians. Currently the PM wins with under 0.2% of Canadian votes directly, and 30% for the party.
4) Bring electoral focus back to the individual representatives.

One of the biggest difficulties facing Canadian unity is that Quebec is simply a far more giving and caring province for its residents than the rest of Canada is, drastically so. That's especially true when it is compared to BC and Alberta. Yes language plays a role, but there are deeper cultural considerations.

BC and Alberta are probably the most resource rich regions left in Canada. Interestingly, we now seem to have the highest concentration of American ownership of corporations extracting those resources in this region: that's no small coincidence.

BC is currently enjoying immense amounts of wealth inflow, despite all the foreign ownership and their undoubtedly rampant transfer pricing of the resources being shipped out for tax avoidance purposes. Yet poverty, and homelessness are exploding in this province. There can be no clearer indictment of a society than its treatment of its weakest and most vulnerable. On that score, we here in BC fail, and we are allowing the situation to worsen.

Unfortunately, that worsening situation is unlikely to change until there is real catastrophe. And catastrophe is a real possibility, not some feverish imagining of hopeless Cassandras. Environmentally we face serious problems not simply with the toxicity of pollution, but with the death of much of the life in our oceans. Add to that the unpredictability of climate change warming and rising sea levels and the possibility of serious environmental adversity is guaranteed over the next few decades. But that's only on the environmental front.

Economically the United States has adopted lunatic policies. In their efforts to militarily dominate the Middle East, they are going into ever greater debt faster than at any point in their history. What's more Americans themselves are mired in personal debt, and holding on to massively overvalued shoddily constructed real estate. Their dollar is being kept afloat by the Chinese and the Japanese, and by a world dependent on Americans to buy their goods. The US has destroyed its manufacturing base by allowing its corporations to exploit indentured labor overseas. Paradoxically, the only thing that has prevented the US economy from collapse is the massive amount of corporate welfare to the military-industrial complex that comprises the only manufacturing base the US really has left. Yet is it that very same spending that is digging them into an ever deeper hole.

The only constant is change, and our current course worldwide is unsustainable, environmentally and economically. It will change at some point. Those most hurt will, as always, be the most vulnerable. The elites have undoubtedly prepared for negative eventualities. But when this will happen is anyone's guess. It is in no one's interest for the US economy to fail, because it will cause a worldwide depression, that even those isolated from trade with the US will be affected by. Ideally change would come about rationally, but unfortunately looking back in history, it appears that people resist change until catastrophe strikes.

All I hope is that the catastrophe that provokes real change is a relatively small one, and that the change we see goes more in the direction of what is occurring in Latin America, instead of our current trajectory of ever increasing corporatism and militarism.

The left and the right are divisive terms popularized by political parties to monopolize the political spectrum and to fear monger.

Red and blue politics must die, to be replaced with a violet revolution.

I agree with Mr. Mair that the country is sliding towards irreconcilable differences. In order to put our house in order, though, we have to understand both our history and the nature of the pact at the heart of confederation. The Liberals didn't, and it is the Trudeau revolution that has caused the deep wound. In typical fashion, the Liberal party treats Canada--a successful country with a successful history--as some sort of laboratory in which to conduct experiments. Our country is a historic pact between two founding peoples, and it you pretend that doesn't count for anything, then you're just harming the patient, not curing her. Let's not vote for the Doctors of Death.

-- Best Wishes for the New Year --

In today's Globe the frequently astute commentator Lysiane Gagnon doesn't think that Dion is the messiah, she says Harper is best for unity. If Harper loses, then Charest might loose too and the PQ will be in power again.

*Strange bedfellows in Quebec*

LYSIANE GAGNON

Stephen Harper and Jean Charest are like Siamese twins joined at the head. If one falls, both fall. ...

Good piece, James Burns. Much in agreement.

As for the "left/right" issue, I tend to disagree with some opinion here-, that it doesn't exist. It remains, whether one places the bar horizontally or vertically, and accepts a number of descriptions, even those which would deny its existence. Like all intellectual tool constructs, it is certainly not perfect at all times and in all situations, and it is frequently subject to the flawed and inadequate thinking to which we are all, on occasion, subject. :-) (Save for thee and me, of course. Though I sometimes wonder about thee. :-)

Yet, by and large, in my view, it continues to serve to help describe and make sence of the different ideas and interests sets that arise out of different social/class strata in society, and compete in the social, political and economic arenas.

That said, I can certainly live with the different explanations others attempt, and see no harm in attempting other explanations, which might even be useful within their novelty, and with varying degrees of success, to explain these differences in partisan political phenomenon. Like I say, whether the line is placed left to right, or up and down, makes little difference to me.

And that construct line of competing interests and ideas sets, whether one calls them ideologies in form or something else, like everything else in life and nature, is subject to the laws of eternal change and development no less. Ideologies arise and attempt their explanation of reality, some may even exist and prove useful for awhile, but are invariably proven to be inadequate at explaining the full complexity of reality. Thereupon which they die a quick or slow agonizing death, but a death nonetheless, just like our corporal bodies. And therein, of course, because there is no permanence to anything, save eternal impermanence, as I understand it, lies the central source of the confusion.

We keep looking for permanence where none exists.

Coyote:

I disagree very much. What do "left" and "right" mean? Nothing. These are stupid words used by people to insult each other. I've been called both, yet I'm neither. I have opinions on various matters that involve my life and experiences. I refuse to accept your labels. Thinking people can have opinions without falling into simplistic categories. I've fought against labeling all of my life. I'm not as extreme as I was as a youth because I don't have that energy anymore, (which is probably a good thing) You'll notice that I haven't labeled you yet, I hope you would do the same for me. You explain idea sets and ideologies and yet you still want to label. Even the TROLLS on here probably love their children and such, so the labels do no good. O bye the way you're right about impermanence...I hope you can apply this to labels as well.

thanks...Harry

The overarching reality of our time though, as I see it, is that there is a partisan struggle going on between diametrically opposed interests within society, and to determine the direction of social, political and economic development there. And there is simply no rising above it, or at least highly unlikely, reconciling the camps, at least still at this juncture in time and place, or explaining it away. This clash of fundamental and different interests, which I suggest reflect different and competing class interests in society, by and large, simply exist-, is a fact of life in capitalism. (And there are always exceptions, of course, such as serve to prove the rule.)

That said, what seems impossible today, with time, engagement/conflict between the parties, and developments arising out of that, can certainly "become" possible. Here, however, at this time and place, I suggest, it is impossible, and is likely to remain so for a time, at least until this seriously backward looking neo-conservative tendency that has arisen in society is soundly defeated. Or we on the left of the horizontal continuum, or on the lesser totalitarian and more democratic aspect of the vertical continuum are ourselves entirely crushed. Both of which are at least theoretically possible.

Though I suspect that likewise over time what is left can become right over the process of social change/evolution as well, calling up the need for a new left eventually, to press for a new change agenda, and possibly/likely even a new right. (Indeed, we are witnessing this very phenomena right now in this country. Though I will leave it to others to explain it on their vertical graph-, with which I am less familiar.:-) LOL.

Then on this matte at least, we will simply have to disagree. :-) Which doesn't then follow that I have to disagree with everything you say, Harry. :-)

We all love our children-, or at least I presume. Which has nothing to do with what we are talking about here, I don't think.

Go ahead though. Label me. I can live with it, be the label accurate or inaccurate. :-) And there certainly are accurate labels, with which i might even agree, that could be applied to me.

I must admit to feeling "mischievous" on this first day of the New Year. Which likely has something to do with the fact that I didn't have so much as a drink or a toke last night.

But that's it. I'm outta here for the evening. Enjoy yourselves. :-)

OK: I left the trolls thing dangling like a participle for someone to pick on...the actual story was Canada and Quebec. Raif gives us thin gruel, but that's what discussions are based on. I was taken and raised amongst the heathens in Alberta at a young age and grew to love them and it. It's an incredibly ugly place in terms of what people have done to it. The natural beauty of the place is equal to BC in my opinion. The hatred of the federal government would shock most people. It's mostly a holdover from the Trudeau energy position, but like hatred of any form is taught to the children at the dinner table. Most people never acknowledge that what they think is truth is just something that their dad said at the dinner table. Did you ever hear the one about using 10% of your brain? Never happened. It was one guy in about 69 that made up that story with no substance, and was reported in all the media as truth. The truth is we use 100% of our brains all the time. Frightening? I think so. I read these comments! There really is a hatred of Quebec and Canada out there, especially in BC and Alberta. I really suspect that it's fostered by sorry people who stand to gain by division. The Quebecers that I've met were fabulous people that loved being in Canada. Also young people that I've met(other than the mindless shoppers), have been far more patriotic than the norm. The point being that we can make this country work if we want to. If we don't or let other people run it for us, we're doomed.

thanks...Harry

The collision and everlasting conflict between ideologies and peoples is caused by what I keep repeating all the time: "Wealth can not be created, only taken....."

The conflict has always been for energy control that gives either religion, or ideology based expropriation rights to certain sectors, usually led by the same predator class under every flag.

This is why I have developed a no ideology, physical efficiency based system some 22 years ago, where nobody has any extra claims and everybody is equal. I have enough scientific opinions backing it up to know that it is correct and workable.

How can humanity tolerate the present corrupt system, where some banks can "create" imaginary capital to take over the properties and lives of peoples in other countries and call them their own?

"With bank deregulation money ceased to exist as an instrument of trade and became a licence to control energy, issued by a special interest class for its own benefit".

As long as free money creation remains in the hands of these crooks, there's no hope for humanity.

Hoping for an awakening, very soon, before it is too late, all the best, Ed.

Oh, man, so many issues boiling to the top on this one... so many different views of different ideologies and thought. Thats the thing with a piece like Rafe's here and the commentary itself. It is so generalized and oversimplified, that we can't see the forest for the trees. So many of us are too proud in believing the few pieces we hold make up the entire picture... I guess its my turn next.

Ed's right again. It comes down to ownership and this country, its markets point to Canadians participating in globalization in the same way as the U.S. How can we be protectionist with our resources when we exploit the resources of so many other nations abroad? But then, its more past tense than present and future. Bay Street, for all its worth and worthlessness, is selling out more than it wants to compete and we now have a government that is doing everything it can to pave the way for U.S. multinationals to finnish the job instead of being loyal to our greedy corps here at home for their own corrupt, but necessary good in the hopes that the next generation of CEO's and corporate sellouts of this country will not be so arrogantly blind. Man, once we sell, its no longer ours. Its just that simple. One can only hope Dion sings a different tune, offering vision to CEO's too blinded by their own greed.

This nation is a nation of nations. And while it disappoints me to hear BC residents talk of separation as being their "best choice", or that of Albertan's or Ontarioans, or the most obvious of all, Quebec, with their continuously divisive "our province/nation comes first" and everyone else, "who cares" bull shit, the reason for my disappointment to such foolish, proudfilled, thoughtless arrogance with the minority of such separatists, whether east or west, could not be more clear. When it comes to the U.S. empire and its U.S. born multinationals with its constant insatiable appetite to "own" us for its ugly greed, we really do have to stand together or we'll fall... one by one.

Does Quebec or any other province think it has a stronger voice than Canada as a whole? Does any province think that it realistically has a better chance of influencing our environmental dangers at home and abroad by itself moreso than it does with the united voice of Canada? Does anyone think a tenth to a quarter of the whole has a greater chance of fending off the greed of the empire than the united whole itself?

And while the U.S. rages wars based on lies to instill international markets so that their richest shareholders can "own" their commodities in the next "middle east sellout" becuase their coups didn't work, the spending run amuck is now a currency that tipping over 50% foreign owned. And is the world getting sick of this ugly empires empirial ambitions? You can all most assuredly bet they are. And it will be Canada's saving grace.

We are known to be one of the most peaceful nations of the world. Young, diversified in cultures and beliefs, wealthy with resources and potential, we are perhaps the second most coveted nation to live in the world. We have our fair share of ugly iniquities, true. And we have our fair share of selfish people scattered throughout our lands. But we have always been known for peace.

Cont.

And so it comes back to the two Steves. I believe that if Harper doesn't allow his MP's to vote freely from here on (and its a snowball chance of this happening from that control freak) that they will lose the next election. I also believe that Quebec will try to separate within the next decade and it might not be peaceful. And where will this civil war rage? Try within Quebec itself. And when the U.S. is blatantly caught interfering, as it is even now with the coup of Harper, the world will come to Canada's rescue for whether we know it or not, we are loved... at the very least, strategically so.

Whether the ignorant, arrogant, proud and dumb Canadians know it or not, our own immigrants will be a major catalyist for international help against the empire itself. Its my belief that amidst this Canadian civil war in Quebec, hosted by its own immigrants, anglophones and natives, the greater enemy will be realized and Canada will unite to face the threat of its greatest enemy of all... the empire itself. And I believe that it will unfold all within the next 12 to 20 years. And, I really, really, really, hope I'm wrong because we should have all seen this one coming. Its all preventable. And Dion's first big mistake? His choice of deputy leader. Not good for the unity of this country at all.

And one final note on Ed Deaks posts. It really does come down to science. While ideologies cherry pick hypothesis, theories and laws in science to perport their own biased, polarized views, never, ever does science declare even its own laws as being absolute. Never does science declare the tree of knowledge as being "full grown". But ideology does. Philosophy does. Cherry picking half truths to support fallacies and lies... and that's the sad truth of it.

Ed Deak, you couldn't be more right about your assessment of the polarized versions of left/right. Its all about control and greed... at everyone elses expense, even to the expense of the control freaks and pchycopaths themselves. All else is smoke and mirrors. Who cares about being a king when its inheritance is nothing more than a burnt out lifeless wasteland?

Obviously some people have nothing better to do on a New Years Day than to plunk around on a keyboard. I'm one of those people. I quite agree with Ed in Deaks Lake that the whole system is rotten. I've followed his rantings? on this site for a long time and seen the vituperation that he's received in return. I've never come across someone who follows my own thinking so closely and so those of you who like to label can label me as "one of those". If this country falls apart, I can go anywhere I like. I have transportable skills. I'd rather stay here and make this a great country, but if not I'll just go somewhere else. At this point in time I work on a union Job(TROLLS NOTICE). (I guess I must just be evil). We will never see perfect mankind in our lifetimes, we just have to hand off the best we can to our daughters and our sons. There are good people in Quebec there are good people in the USA(or Iraq). The fact of the matter is that most folks are deluded whether they be capitalist, or whatever. We go along with what the Brits, or the Americans want because it suits our greed.We have for hundreds of years. That's the bottom line: Greed. A fine legacy for our children: GREED IS GOOD! Do any of you apologists for the way things are ever really think? The best things in our modern society are communistic! Libraries! Linux! All horrible communistic people coming together to make things that work right in a collaborative fashion. Oh! The humanity! No one made a cent! This is future: you're either on the bus or you're not. Get used to it or your children or grandchildren will eat you.

thanks...Harry

Why are you guys bitching so much? Canada is the best any nation will ever be. Even I, with my two bit trailer and total wealth of a few hundred dollars am among the wealthy on the planet--so much so that I sometimes feel embarrassed.

Grow up you pack of whiners.

And Rafe, drop the Peak Oil crap. There's enough coal to run everything for a thousand years. Oil's being found all over the place, not least of which, is from 'deep wells' as in Viet Nam which was once declared totally energy-barren.

And Ed, how about proving the 'positivist' link you've been flogging--'wealth cannot be created, only taken, etc.

It's the first law of thermodynamics all over again.

Why does it apply to the creation of wealth, which is usually in direct ratio to the number of lies that the super intelligent can get the rest of the population to believe--you know, stuff like peak oil, wars on terrorism, the reserve banking system.

Truman:
Here's a perfect example of ignoring TROLLS that I posted earlier. Not! Of course Canada is a great place because we allow obvious degenerates like you to walk around and touch keyboards without supervision. You obviously don't understand peak oil in that it means we use more than we discover. O, what's that you say? Oil is created in the sky by aliens? Or it's created by the earth as lubrication? Or maybe you have all the oil! Give us some you rich bastard!

And some of your gold too!

Harry

“But when this will happen is anyone's guess.”

No, it is not. It will happen on December 21st, 2012, then end date of the long count Mayan calendar. That will be the end of an era, and of the world as we know it. Be prepared.

“Our country is a historic pact between two founding peoples, and it you pretend that doesn't count for anything, then you're just harming the patient, not curing her.”

The only problem here is, that most Canadians now do not belong to any of the two founding nations you must be thinking of here. What to do with them? It may be worth your while to consider Rafe’s notion of a “constitution and instruments of government suitable to the next 150 years, not the last 150.”

Granted, the historic pact counts for something, but the full formula reads: Past, Present, and Future, or Urd, Verdandi, and Skuld as one of your founding nations would have expressed it. The present and future is what we must keep our eye on, or else nothing we do will go right.

“all I ever wanted to be is free to think and act.”

But Ed, don’t you know just how difficult this makes it to fit you into the matrix of mediocrity so carefully constructed for maximum profit?! People may see you think and act, and sometimes it may be more effective than what the mind-numbed can accomplish with plastc gadgets and fluff, and so they may start doubting themselves, and even begin to wonder just where they are, and some may peep over the edge of their pod, and will then have to be unplugged, picked up by a grabber and flushed. It doesn’t make it any better that you have already swallowed the red pill and started digesting it, for Heaven’s sake! Beware, man, you are dynamite for the order and sanity of the dreamers in their pink eternities, who are producing so well!

canada is well past it's expiry date - being so close to the states we have a false notion of liberty and freedom here, however it's more like the state has absolute control over all our lives -from border guards acting as state censors, to it being illegal to buy care for yourself to the way municipalities are the closest and most important branch of government being bled dry by greedy premieres and prime ministers alike....this country must die in order to allow liberty to bloom in Canada.

Talk to me about a police force that spies on elected officials, talk to me about faith-based policies in the DTES that have failed for years on-end, talk to me about the future discord being created by official "multicutluralism", talk to me about MP's who cravenly are beholden to religious and profiteer interests against those of the poor folks locked up for prohibition...bah!

The greatest gift we could give Canadians is the end of Ottawa's hold on the country - the provinces should get together and tell the feds we're not listening anymore and we will govern oursleves with a new parliament with democratic structures and most definitely with checks and balnces that are sorely mkissing from our current elected monarchy.

At the very least the cities should turn their backs on both the provinces and the feds until real political, taxation and representation come to municipalities - almost every error in judgement in governance has come from distance, centralized dictates - a trait we share with The former USSR, China and North Korea.

Cause its not perfect, Truman, and what we have, as great as it is, is under threat to greed. Thats why we whine. And then, those with this unsatiable appetite of greed always want more... at everyone elses expense. Only the pigs at the trough don't whine when they are having their fill and even then, they eat noisily... before they eat their young... or the young grow up to eat them, like Harrypal says.

While I fully agree with Ed Deaks take on things, I only disagree with one thing that Ed speaks of, and it is "wealth cannot be created, only taken". On this front, Truman, I agree with you from a specific viewpoint. Ed's view comes from the fraudulent economic sense and its obvious that he is right from an economic point of view.

But from a scientific and moral perspective, "wealth cannot only be created, it can be shared." The greater question is in defining what true wealth actually is. Long life, long health, sustained plateau's of preserved happiness that is passed down from generation to generation, peacefully existing with the rest of life... its far from eutopian. Its achievable, but everyone has to be on the same page.

No one does it alone. Only fools pretend to think they can ever go it alone and this is capitalisms greatest deficiency. My help, to put it bluntly, is nothing less than mindblowing and while I have many questions and theories to prove up, the answers remain. Our current human systems are disfunctional.

We can't see the solutions to our environmentally cause problems because we can't imagine a system that can run without money. And yet, when the balance of power is shifted and spread evenly, for power comes only through empowerment... our world will know in the coming milleniums this truth that I now speak:

"This world will heal only through created wealth that is shared." It won't come from biotechs, or big oil, or cheap labor. It will come from the power of the sun, the heat from the earth, the motion of the ocean, and the belief that our greatest assets, our greatest wealth, is life itself. It is no Eutopia, no mindless drivel, only pure logic and that logic is saying that it can only be achieved through a collective effort.

In this world, we have leaders/lions, free thinkers/planners/eagles, builder workers/oxen, and the faces of humans, the ones that can do it all: lead, follow/build, plan... While some of us will think this talk is gibberish like the language of physics or ancient tongues of old, the rest will know the truth in this statement:

Regardless of our roles, whether we be builders, planners or leaders, leaders must follow and followers must lead. One is lost without the other. Only those with the best laid plans know that success comes only when our will is the will of one. (and that time will come, but not in this lifetime, perhaps not for another two thousand years) And on that note, cheers, Truman and a happy new year, one and all.

MyBrainIsOnFire:
So: you want to replace Ottawa and the Mandarins with The NPA and Sam Sullivan and his backers. O, We'll be so much better off. That's direct democracy for you. Democracy by real estate agents and car dealers. I feel better already!

Harry

Truman... you've answered your own question on wealth creation in you last paragraph.

As far the "super intelligent" goes, I've been circulating between the super rich and powerful for 22 years, between 1957 and 79, in Vancouver, picking their brains on every possible occasion and was surprised how openly they talked about their actions and plans.

The one thing I've hardly ever encountered was intelligence, let alone "super".

Some were quite decent, away from their talents with the cash registers, but some were so incredibly ignorant that I wouldn't have employed them as sweepers in my shop. Yet, super rich, paying off politicians.

Dorothy...... thanks for the warning but
at 79 I have survived certain death on more occasions than I can remember, have lived in 4 countries, under every known ideology, but still consider Canada the best place in the world and the only one worth fighting for.

Ed Deak, Big Lake (Diehard Canadian nationalist and economic nationalist for all)

Hey, hey, Harry, coal oil extraction with CO2 collection isn't all that far off the beaten path... but geez, if we try it without the CO2 collection, this world will greenhouse like venus and mars. And where is the most coal on this planet? The U.S.!!! Man, its not just oil and gas we can burn and when you look into power generation alone... Truman is no fool with peak oil. Liquified oil can be extracted from coal, but with a huge cost to the environment they way technology currently stands. As it is, global warming is as much responsible by coal as it is oil. And the tarsands? How much oil is there? And how little CO2 are we capturing from its processing alone?

Fact is, Harrypal, we are discovering more oil than we are consuming, but its just not in the form you are expecting it to be and if humanity exploits these old/newfound resources, look out. I don't see how this world could survive it, quite frankly, but then, I see a great deal of death coming within the next 50 years or less anyways. The Mayans could be right.(mind you, I have my own theory on why time stops outside of natures great culling)

Nevertheless, in my own crystal ball, I see the population peaking around 8.5, 9 billion, and dropping to a tenth from destroyed environments. Funny thing is... it will take almost completely devestated environments before natures great culling. War, depleted resources... Then, and only then... will our survivors get smart and come up with systems that actually function.

All:

Superintelligence.

HAHAHA!

I've had trouble finding intelligent life on this planet, let alone super. When will we all try and see that the so called "super" people are just as screwed up as anyone else? My dog was smarter than most people. What is the "talent" or the "super" in greed? If you want "survival of the fittest", how about I come over and steal all your stuff? The law you say? How about if I make a law that says I can? What then? Or howabout I just go ahead and do it and leave it to the courts? See you in a few years!

thanks...Harry

Holy slippery squirrel sh!t batman, we’ve come a great distance here, I read somewhere this post was about some messiah by the name of Dee-on,and some country called Qwebec or some thing like.

Brain.....what you say fits exactly in with what I mean by "taking". Think about it.

The only way humanity can survive is an economic system built on "The supplying the needs of most with the least resource/energy inputs". This single sentence fits the concepts of physical, or thermodynamic efficiency snd can save the world.

This can only be achieved with what the economics textbooks preach, but never fulfill: "Economics are the science for the management and distribution of scarce resources". In spite of this definition, students are filled with false theories bringing on contradicting results and no economic theory has ever even come close to this ideal and intent. They all deteriorated into "Wealth creation" for a few.

But this definition can and must be done against the screams of all economics departments and professors.

Ed Deak.

Leftie= anyone who disagrees with maestro, apparently.

the brain:

I've been studying this energy problem for over 40 years and I can't agree with you at all. I, in my youth had figured that this had all been figured out 30 or 40 years ago and promptly forgot it. Remember the energy crisis of the 70's? I developed a car that would get 100 MPG, but came to realize that no one would buy it because it was small and ugly. Guess what drive train it used? Hybrid! HA! The hybrid cars of today are just a sop to environmentalism and have nothing to do with living light on the planet. Even bicycles, which I build custom jobs of now, are made from steel, and aluminum, and other alloys, that use horrendous mining techniques that I've seen in action. Nothing is inheritabley environmental. I don't see why, other than mental illness, so many have trouble seeing the problems we've created. I'm starting to wake up myself and get out and see what people think. I spent far to long in the forest where everything makes sense, and far to little in the city where nothing makes sense. It's an adjustment. Do you see that the cars of today are almost twice the size of the old Cadillacs we used to make fun of as "bloatmobiles"? This is clever? This is smart?
Coal? Have you been dropping acid again? Oops..Should that be acid rain...sorry.

OK..the ultimate of course for all you corporate loving types should be...the giant corporation. Let's get Walmart to be the boss of Canada. It would be Efficient beyond compare, we could all own shares, and would take care of us till our graves(and even provide us with graves). They would even take over those troublesome Quebecer's.
No one would ever have to worry again.

thanks...Harry

Rafe started off discussing Dion as the possible saviour of Canada. Wandered around to the current Quebec premier( changed parities) Harper( who was in a few as well) BC should separate and on it went. Burn coal, there is lots BC and Alberta have the resources so everyone should listen to us. Energy seems a big issue to some. Where you aware that our smallest province, which relied on diesel generators for eons to make electricity, is now going windmill generation big time.We have a lot of coast line and tidal conditions that should allow electrical generation with the reverse of the tides,and wind power. Next thing we will be talking about how safe and clean,nuclear power is. I spent three years living in Quebec and found it a great place for our kids. The folks there were very nice to us and most helpful. They aren't going anywhere. But each time somebody says lets separate, the money starts to flow in big bunches. The two big parties know they would have a tough time forming a majority without the seats in Quebec. Hell, if the same sort of thing happened somewhere else , all the provinces would be saying the same thing. When the Quebec premier calls an election he might as well pack his bags. He really doesn't do that great of a job.

palharry - foolish man, when the bauble is less, the takers are beggars and brigands....

Many of you seem to have bought into the Political Correct/Government of Canada propaganda that Canda is so great in comparision to other places in the world so we should all be happy with what we got and shut up and behave - forget that buddy, I say let's work for the future and be from fear.

Criticizing the government and the country is a duty to our fellow citizens, our offspring, our friends and ourselves. And comparing ourselves to third world dictatorships is nothing short of despicable - I do not want to be measured by that yardstick at all.

Think for yourselves, read history, be free and be able to care for your fellow citizens - it's not hard, we can do it.

Recorded earlier:

"....Yes Jeeves...it's been a long day.... help Comrade Coyote park his new 150 ft. Yacht...I have to check THE TYEE posts ....."

( Noise of pouring a Remy Martin VSOP )

" Gadzooks and Balderdash...Mr. Burns says release the hounds...the masses are revolting....!!! "

ALSO: " Short Sell " the Petrol peak oil stock...Xmas ( aka "Holiday Season" for the TYEE heathens) is over.

LESSON: See what happens when you are watching Bowl games with the masses and aren't here to supervise / referee ?

MyBraonIsOnFire:

Nice quote. You still didn't address the fact that what I was saying is that you prefer theNPA and Sam Sullivan to Ottawa.
It sends a shiver...wait! My brain is on fire too!

Harry

Maestro:

Why do you never address the issues? It seems that you think yourself a clever fellow with lots to say about nothing. Perhaps you should get a hobby or a job.

Harry

P/Harry:
This (The Tyee) IS maestro's hobby.

Has anyone seen the ‘New Canadian Government's’ 'boreal forest' ad?

Seems to me it's a good indication of what pee wee has in mind for his election campaign. Get ready for the 'middle way'.

If Dion wants to propose a coalition to save Canada from the evil neocons and protect the environment I'm prepared to listen. But if this election stacks up the way I think it will - as the 'Liberal Party' being the only agency that can save the country (especially with the help of BC Liberals like Mark Marissen and Christy Clark - not to mention Erik Bornmann.

Well, I just don't believe it, sorry.
He wants my vote - he's gonna have to pay for it with a cooperative vision that doesnt' just include the Liberal Crap he's been spouting so far.

No 'PARTY' of any kind ever saved any country. And, without Quebec, there'll be no Canada.

I disagree Coyote, for were this actually true then American Hegemony would already be done.

The reality is much more complex, one that allows Canada to be a financial 'holding zone' and legal 'gray area'.

Were we really 'on the ball' regarding this sort of thinking we could much more easily turn the situation to our advantage as a separate provincial entity than as a poor sister with no real clout, as a part of 'the canada'.

Buddyharold

Jeeves has kept me abreast of the postings all day...

The TYEE conversations have apparently unfolded all day via apparent mention of a couple of words/phrases.

Sorry, but what is THINE point ???

QUOTE: BuddyHarold : "I've had trouble finding intelligent life on this planet,let alone super . "

Well Palbrainiac, probably still time to rent a booth at the PNE ....read people's minds and charge them versus the freebies you are offering here on the TYEE . World Problem: ..picking winning lottery numbers with vowels in them, any tips ?

So,how as Roswell ? , sounds like you arrived from the 7th farthest planet from the sun...or was it the planet Smirnoff?

P.S. Jeeves will keep me updated...

Coyote, you must be mad to think that such a thing could ever be accomplished within the framwork of the current confederation.

Only smaller locales would ever be able to achieve these aims, to even attempt it within Canada as a whole would be for naught, sayyy...kind of like what the Non-Democratic Party has been spouting about these past 20 years?

Ohhh gawwwdd....

Here comes THE TYEE's Sideshow Bob aka G West....make sure you bring your decoder rings , Kiddies, but AFTER you genuflect.

P.S. How did you find a phone booth so fast...SUUUPPPERRR G ' ster ?

says dangrice.com

your proposal is nothing more, or less, than a republic.

nothing that will likely fly here north of the 49th...unless the smaller parts (like a province or maybe a 'city state' like Torontonia) decide to take actions into their own hands.

Says James Burns.

This is exactly what was going on for three centuries in ROME from 200-500 ce.

The modern equivalent is on a grander scale, or louder if you will, but the action/response to the PAX AMERICANA is the same.

I suspect that, we here in North America, (on the continent at least) will have to endure the long slow decay and decline just as the Romans did so long ago on the Italian Peninsula.

It will only be on those places where defence is easily obtained and organized that some modicum of peace will be found.

If you have not looked into The World is Flat, I recommend you give it a read. Along with an earlier work that handles similar issues, The Sovereign Individual. Both have material that can help to explain the transitions underway since the fall of the Berlin Wall...

http://www.thomaslfriedman.com/worldisflat.htm

http://www.amazon.com/SOVEREIGN-INDIVIDUAL-MASTERING-TRANSITION-INFORMATION/dp/0684832720

opines Fiat Lux.

alright, so what is your solution?

I propose PRIVATE CURRENCY, based on GOLD.

This would take trade negotiations back to the way they were done in the 1750's (or earlier). But at least 'currency' as issued by certificates (possibly only digital records) from the gold depositors could be counted on as no longer being devalued by their issuers...for were the business holders of the GOLD to do this there would be a run on that holders' assets.

Just like the lemming like run that is coming for the 'fiat' US bank notes...

This is not 'clear-thinking' at all...you are proposing that the peaceniks CANADIANS! will actually start to shoot at each other with more than harsh language? (in both 'official' ones of course)

Where do you think this violence will come from?

How long do you think anyone will let it go on?

Niether PQ nor 'upper Canadians' are as hot-blooded as you seem to aspire them to be...even in another generation.

Just remember when the crunch comes and our present world civilization 'tanks' mankind will never again find it easy to 'rebuild' because ALL the easy resources have been extracted and used up for 'the few'. Plus the forest, fish, water and soil resources have been over abused for the profit of the few and continues unabated. Why else are our 'betters' accumulating all the wealth the can before the collapse comes? The rich and powerful live for now and no one else. Sheesh! Now isn't that a nice thought for the New Year. To the Naysayers reread Rafe's article and do some honest research and quit the revisionist rhetoric.

The World's problems can be summed up with the lack of political will to oppose the few who hold the most of the World's wealth. Why else has Canada allowed the Atlantic fishery to be raped? No Cod? Hey no problem fish down the food chain to the bottom feeders and then drag the last shrimp and scallop for a buck. West Coast same. Fifty years ago one could almost walk from Bamfield to Uclulet on Herring Balls. Not now. Why? The Pilchard return to the West Coast after 40 plus years and DFO says open season. Seines scoop up the returned Pilcards and guess what? No pilchards. The Straight of Georgia was a veritable fish 'bread basket' until some moron in DFO decided to let the Herring fishers overfish. Destroy the food chain you destroy the resource. One can only hope a Dion government has the brain power ( or balls) to out flank the money folks who are at the point of our planets slide to destruction. These folks wont be happy until they have dug up the last piece of ore, cut down the last tree, hooked the last fish, sold off the World's heritage for the last buck, One has to wonder what they think THEIR grandchildren are going to survive on. You can't eat 'gold' folks.

murdoch, if we eliminate the queen from our pennies, then we have a republic. I couldn't personally care if her or Wayne Gretzky appears in my penny jar, but to do so would require a constitutional change and as long as the current queen is alive, I don't think there is any political will to do so.

We technically live in a monarchy, but our head of state (Governor General) is chosen by the head of government (Prime Minister), where as our constitution clearly states it should be the opposite.

I'm saying we still have a Prime Minister and Cabinet, but to vest the Governor General with real authority providing by a real majority of the people. I'm not suggesting we have a phony electoral college like they do in the states, but to do give somebody oversight ability on the PMOs office.

This is called a semi-presidential system, and its how it works in India, Germany, France, Ireland, etc. Germany, and India require their head of states to be non partisan, which I think would work best here as well.

This is possible without changing the constitution and would be a way to force minority governments to function without having to go to elections every 15 months.

Murdock, my man, don't think for a minute that the separatist movement isn't entirely french based, because it is. So who's against separation in Quebec? Think about it. I don't see FN's sitting back and waiting for this to happen, and they won't be alone. Nor do I see the military complex south of the border not wanting to cash in, or the Republicans not wanting a divide and conquer tactic themselves. Same old U.S. foreign policy same old.

And in Quebec, the real issue with a split will come down to money, once the nationalist pride rears its ugly head enough. Currently, their provincial debtload is at 117 billion and counting. If they were to take on the proportional debtload of the federal debt, their debt would be to high to float and with a provincial spending climate that they've got already...

People think that Quebec forming its own nation will offset their taxation in terms of doubling their own national federal tax revenue and that they can float it. But that's not how it works. There will be spending increases and revenue declines along with a shrinking population for a tax base from exodus, not to mention the reality that the money and stock markets will harshly react to separation. No, the best they can hope for is to reneg on any kind of Canadian debtload and rough out the economic fallout from anglophone business pulling the pin which in itself, will lead to an economic war at best and a violent one at worst, likely within their own borders.

Quebec separating from Canada would devastate their provincial economy and thats assuming that they keep a Canadian currency, which is again, the best chance they've got. If they had to spend major money trying to squelch a civil war with federal loyalists, immigrants and FN's, it would further wreck the economy of this "new nation", and that's if Canada allowed Quebec to keep their currency to begin with. Unneeded divorces like this often get bitter. If anyone out there thinks Quebec will become a strong economical nation overnight and that populations will swell instead of shrink with no conflict and be filled with all of the nutty optimism that usually precedes ruin, best think again. Instead, it will be like watching dummies walk off a cliff with bags packed, thinking they'll grow wings or get caught on the way down. Reality just aint that luv'n kind. And the best this scenario will lead to, is a reunited Canada with an extra 50 to 100 billion of Quebec debt for Canada to pay for 10 years later after the failed experiment leaves an ugly stench for all to see.

Its the same old same old flawed thinking there, as it is out here in BC for the BC separatists like yourself. They all think that their own government would do a better job, when the provincial model is that "better government". When I see voters electing the Glen Campbells and PQ separatist leaders, I cannot help but shake my head at such insane optimistic thinking. The only way this would reverse itself, is if voters actually voted for what was best for their nation instead of what's best for themselves and their precious egos. Thing is, if they did this, there would be no separation. People would see the light.

So there you have it. Do spoiled children act wisely? I think not. And reactions to them is often just as polarized and extreme.

Why don't we eliminate the pennies while we're at it - they did years ago in Australia and it hasn't sunk the island continent? Any serious discussion of constitutional change in this country is nothing more than pissing into the wind - It'll come to nothing and we'll all get wet and smelly into the bargain. Politics is the art of the possible.

the brain:

Happy New Year, brain - I've seen credible studies that show this would not be the case. I think Quebec would do just fine and it's a sufficiently cohesive society that I think whatever adjustments would have to be made would be borne willingly.

I wish the possibility of the ROC separating from the USA were as sanguine a prospect.

I remain unconvinced that an "economic system" is actually required. I'm beginning to warm up to the idea that there is a system better than the monetary one, but I'm going to have to think about it for a while yet. I'm beginning to think that numbers in terms of placing values on commodities, manufactured goods, and intellectual designs, might not be needed in the way we think. All economies fail in the exact same way. False values! Fix the values and make it float with population numbers... competition breeds despair.

We would need a completely new way on how we place value on resources of any and all kinds and like I say, it would take a completely new approach that doesn't include an economical system at all, but rather, placing the highest values on life itself and that obviously also means the very environments that substains it. Just think about it for one minute. The only monetary construct in this world is the human one. Does any other form of life rely on it? Likewise, would a highly evolved alien race rely on such a flawed system if there was such a race?

Sure, we might need a monetary system now, but a thousand years from now... even 50, after 90% of the worlds human population potentially becomes devastated by the very monetary system that has placed all of this "false value" leading to all of this human destruction of ourselves, our nations and our environments. I honestly see the monetary system as we know it as an archaic one leading to our own doom. I say give unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and give unto God that which is Gods. It is only then that we will begin to see the light, but I see alot of needless death and destruction arising first, before such forward thinking rises from the ashes...

And what? What is that some of you nutters are thinking, that such thinking is nuts to begin with? Fat chance of such forward thinking being the cause of our own demise. Rather, its believing that a monetary system MUST ALWAYS EXIST especially in the way we have it, that is the way of the nut and if some of you can't see it, just read the post again.

Our monetary system is just plain disfunctional! To think that it isn't is quite nutty. But to think of what kind of system it will take to replace it... I myself, will have to think long and hard on that one, and in truth, I don't see how I can come up with a new system to replace such an fraudulent, out of date system we currently have, on my own. Its like most other plans that succeed. Takes group effort!

I quite literally might need help from thinkers that are not of this world. (Hey, I've got a lot of current distractions as it is... dietary protocols for cancer and diabetes comes to mind currently along with the neurological diseases). Plus the science we have needs more work, but its not far away from practical application (geothermal/solar, ocean currents/tides). Otherwise, I believe we really are saying the same things, Ed, just playing it with different words. Enjoy your posts as always. Cheers! (Anonymous fellow diehard Canadian nationalist and temporary economic nationalist for all) :-)

G West:
Only if every star aligned for them, would they be able to make it happen. But trust me when I say it. If the population shrank to any marked degree and they swallowed 250 billion in debt or more, I believe this province, especially a province that could face war from FN's, anglophones and immigrants... lets just say that its French only that wants out of Canada. Already, you should be thinking that it could become language and racist divisive and if that happens, it doesn't matter how good the "credible" numbers crunchers shake and bake it. Those numbers won't be cooked on "the downside" of separatism.

Its not hard to see why it won't work. Quebec would be leaving a nation that really is functioning quite well despite our Canadian complaints that contrasted to the rest of the nations in the world, sound unrealistic. What I'm saying in a nut shell, G, is that a nationalist based movement will create an exodus and if Quebecs population shrinks to francophones alone, look out. Too much debt and economical revenue drains. The optimists simply have not thought this one through.

Oh yah, Happy New year, G West! Got to get researching now, later and all the best.

Why don't we eliminate the pennies while we're at it ..

I'm with you on that, what a waste of materials and handling time.

Maestro:

You've actually hit upon a sore spot with me.
The bully boys who beat me up in the schoolyard used to call me that when I was a boy. Would you care to do that? O, sorry you already have. I'll meet you any time and any place. the choice of weapons is yours. I'll hunt you down otherwise bigmouth.

Harry

oops: my bad. I'll never be back on this forum again. It was an aberration in the first place. It kind of felt good to vent, but I can see that I have a thin skin and that I can't stand up against name-callers and jerks like Maestro and such and that I would really have to kill them if I continued. HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL!

GOOD-BYE Harry

I just want to drop this little item into the mix:

Stephane Dion and Jack Layton caused heads to swivel at the Royal York Hotel one morning during Christmas week, when they sat down in the main dining room for breakfast together.

Not a whisper about what they said. Or whether they were smiling when they departed. But that little brekkie might just be the first step in the coalition some folks have been hoping for, eh?

"There is, believe it or not, an even worse curse on the horizon: globalization. Not only will we find our natural resources like lumber badly outbid by places like Russia, which doesn't worry about the environment, worker safety or selling raw logs; not only will we be less and less able to compete with foreign imports; more and more services will be done abroad and those who feel safest will be hit the hardest."
Is globalisation not inconsistent with increasing energy prices? Economies will likely relocalise as transportation increases in price due to oil shortages.
In regards to the ongoing abiotic oil crap, does anyone think that Chevron would spend $100M per hole drilling below the Gulf of Mexico, if there was unlimited energy supplies?
Peak Oil is probably here now. Observe the situation in Central Africa where they can not afford $60 oil and at the same time their lakes are receding due to drought, which has reduced the amount of available hydro-electric power. It's called demand destruction as the Africans are being out bid for the remaining oil. Power plants operate sporadically as the people simply can not pay their power bills. This is having disastrous effects on industry(closures) and hospitals etc..
Is their any way we could send them some of the abiotic oil?

BC Mary - sounds too good to be true therefore.....

happy birthday,rafe

Hey Palharry:

" Bring it ON " in THIS forum.
You are only dangerous to yourself.

Don't leave in a hissy fit.
Maybe regroup and come back better prepared the next go around.

Happy New Year P.H.

Harrypal. Best thing to do with thin skin is to thicken it up a bit with the odd callous or two. The Tyee works well in this fashion for guys like myself and Maestro. Stick around! Good stories, outrageous commentary, there's frills, thrills, bells, whistles, the odd nutbar or two (ok, there's quite a few, lol), even the spelling and grammar police come around from time to time to keep us in check. Were all around one big disfunctional, sometimes even happy family out here in internet land, bitter enemies on one thread, staunch allies the next, and sometimes are even blessed with good old fashioned articles that shoot it straight (sometimes). Rafe is one of my fav's.

BC Mary. Interesting observation! Nations have been known to heal or divide over the breakfast table. Even Jesus was known to dine with strange sorts when he spilled the wine. :-) Happy New Year BC Mary, and excellent work on our BC crooks in the provincial legislature. Speaking of which...

P.S. Gordon Campbell. You can kiss both sides of my ass there, yah U.S. multinational sellout @#%$@*%#@@#%# money grubbin' SOB. (when I think of Saddam's latest vid flick, I think of Gordon and a bright smile finds itself on my face :-)

I totally disagree, every dollar sent in tribute to Ottawa comes out from that sinkhole at $0.78.

It is the 'central control' model that this destroying the resources, using the excess to make very loud 'flushing' noises!

and when the federal Conservatives elected Kim Campbell as leader I was incredulous! when the Canadian public then elected DARTH CRETINOUS as PM I was totally devastated!

My Quebec friends all said that the rest of canada is insane! They all knew how much of a guttersnipe Cretin (misspelled ON PURPOSE for all the spell-check flamers) was! His back-room maneuverings make what Mr. Dithers did seem like a cake-walk (who do you think taught him how to take out a leader?).

The lessons coming out from Lyin' Brian are proving more than ever, to me at least, that the federalist system is broken. I think irretrievably so.

It is broken and time to fix it, time for BC to politely point out that the 1871 agreement has been broken (in many places) and that on those grounds BC is withdrawing from Confederation, please just erase the 'penciled in' name British Columbia from your documents.

No fight, no anger, just a departure -> fairly quiet just like the arrival.

Touche' Brain:

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Let's all start with TYEE = Free Speech, a venue off the beaten path,... the rest will take care of itself.

Maybe even provide thick skins on loan at the door if not in possession of one at the start. ( P.S. Haven't found one that will fit G West though...at least the pull- over type )

PS Friendly Note...wicked pothole on Delta's River Road East Bound towards the Alex Fraser Bridge by the railway tracks in the Industrial area...seems any vehicle that hits it has received a FLAT tire...

Murdock,

First, I acknowledge you are an extremely interesting fellow, with very many excellent observations. Though I much disagree with some of your central conclusions, especially re your effective advocacy for a return to the ancient City State, but also your view regarding the possibility of a new "unity" between Anglo/Immigrant Canada and Quebec. (And hopefully, for me, eventually, including a future Native Nation as part of the fabric of the entire country. With which concept Quebec also has a problem, despite the fact Quebec is generally more socially "progressive" today than is Neo-Conservative dominated Anglo-Canada.)

The current main problem standing in the way of this, of course, is deeply rooted Anglo chauvanism west of Quebec. Which manifests itself in a "We won the Battle of The Plains of Abraham, hence that is the end of the matter." Except as it so often is in "forced unions", from human marriages, to Chechnya for Russia, to Ireland and Scotland for England, this continues to count for squat and be resisted. And Quebec, save for some ruling class elements within it, doubtless understand as well, perhaps even better than we, that the main overarching threat to their continued national existence and national survival, as well as our own, is in fact an aggressive US Empire which covets both our territory and resources, now in the new form of a North Amerikan Union super state. Being precisely the reason the citizenry of Quebec has demonstrated great patience with us time and again, evidencing a preference even for conditions that would allow them to remain in a Canadian Union as opposed to drive a permanent rupture between us. (Which will eventually wear thin, no doubt.)

So, if we are flexible and accommodating, to a point, with both Natives and Quebec, I don't think there is any doubt but that a strengthened Canadian Union is possible, with a recognition of the realities of our history, and a determination that we should ALL, stand up and assert ourselves and our uniqueness against the covetous imperialism of the US Empire. Like I say, on the current path, the course is set to continued discourse. It is time to attempt a new tack.

And indications are, in any case, with emerging new political positions by virtually all parties to even "official " Canada on this issue, that this is already the direction in which events are beginning to move, and will evolve. A development which I favour-, against all Anglo-Canadian chauvanisms and intransigence, and such as may exist also in Quebec.

The unity of the country, against the predator ambitions of the US Empire, which is going to take Anglos, Quebecers and Natives to secure, in my view, require that we at least attempt to resolve the main sources of division between us-, with an accomodation attempt, as opposed to continuing this national chauvanist dance of death into the arms of Amerika In Decline. (And I am not advocating laying down and surrendering to Quebec or anyone else. )

Mary,

Sehr interresant re Dion and Layton. My view for a long time here has been that an eventual union or working accomodation between the Liberals and NDP is but a matter of time. The political convergence to the right is already well underway.

Though, unlike yourself, if I read you correct, I am not of the opinion that this is a good thing. Quite the contrary. It reduces, not enhances real choice.

The need of the country is, in my view, for a more radical development than Dion and Layton shagging under the covers, or Tweedle-dee and Tweedle-dum get it on. The Libs, especially since Trudeau, and to here, have done more to contribute policy and action betraying the country to the US Empire than even the Conservatives. That's the fact.

Never mind disagreeing with me, Murdock, you contradict yourself! The feds spend more than they recieve on and from Quebec. From the 60's through to the early 90's, Quebec recieved roughly 40% of Canada's total federal spending. Do you for some reason think that Quebecs axing of its gravy train from the rest of Canada won't hurt it economically? Christ, federal spending is still around 32 - 34% with Quebec mustering less than 24% of the Canadian population. And their inept provincial governments over the generations that have frittered away a 117 billion dollar provincal deficit (2005 numbers) doesn't help any.

And how can Canada help them with it, when there's this separatist spectre hanging over Canada?

There's so much that Canadians don't know about the history of Quebec, and the brainwashing that's occuring in their institutions of education from their high schools. Their history books have literally been rewritten since Quebec gained control of their own school system separate from Canada since the late 60's.

Simply put, their own social studies is grossly bias and predjudice towards the rest of Canada when it comes to history and the federal and social treatment of Canada towards Quebec. When the school systems have bred more than 3 generations of social study teachers beginning their classes with "we've got to separate", what can Canada expect in the next generation to come?

Few English Canadians know this much about their educational system in terms of its break from the cirriculm guidelines with the rest of Canada since the late 60's. With this kind of mass brainwashing, it is literally just a matter of time before they separate... but don't take my word for it, pick up some text books from their own high schools with ours and compare and contrast the history textbooks! They are quite simply night and day when it comes to the history of this country in relation to Quebec and the rest of Canada. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they had a referendum within 10 years and the separatists won. But where it will go from there...

One of the most racist men I've ever heard speak in my life was Jacques Pariseau. When the last provincial vote to separate was defeated, he blamed it on the immigrants and anglophones outright that same night in his speech.
The PQ distanced itself from Jacques statements, apologizing for days on end afterwords, but the message is still thick with "we are better than, we can do better than anyone else, our way is the only way" cult crap.

There's cultural and systemic racism there, outright. That's the ugliest thing about the whole issue of separatism is that in order for separatism to succeed, pride and/or predjudice must feed the well from which separatists draw from whether they are from Quebec, or from out west, like yourself and I make no apologies for bringing this to light.

And where did it begin with Quebec? Try the lies in the text books in their schools. Quebequois will come on this thread if they read it and most will deny this of course, until they actally compare and contrast the differences between English and French textbooks and even then, most will believe the French version. Same goes for the English who assume to know what history and the present contradicts... That the differences between the cirriculm's in the historical and political realm are night and day and one version, if not both, are wrong, that I can guarantee. Christ, its a matter of historical record! And if its not brought to light in major fashion, Quebec's separation, I believe, is inevidable.

An incredible dump of snow here, which I must now go and spend a couple hours digging ourselves out from.

A good day.

Hmmmm. Though it is also as likely a possibility, if that Liberal and NDP "accommodation" goes ahead and takes organizational form, that the right or conservative wing of the Liberals will be inclined to move over to the Conservative Party. Creating an interesting realignment possibility.

Got that right, Coyote, a major dump! (good ol' Revelstuck) I think I read somewhere's that oxygen is good for you (with antioxidants, that is) Got some major digging to do myself! Good luck pushing the fluff, pal.

the brain
As someone with a slightly more than passing familiarity with La Belle Province, I have no (or at least very little) disagreement with your observations about the way 'Canadian' history is taught in Quebec. Although, in fairness, most of this goes on at the Cégep level. A program which is, in many ways, so superior to the general public education program in the ROC that I can almost say it has been worth it for the other benefits it has delivered to the population of Quebec.

Be that as it may, I'd still say that - textbooks to the contrary - the racism of the west is far more nasty and comprehensive than anything I ever experienced in the east.

In some ways, although I find it very hard to say much that's positive about W.A.C. Bennett, there was once a proposal for a realignment of governance in this country, which I think he proposed that may have - had it been adopted in a thoughtful way - given the last 25 years of Canadian history a different and much more positive arc.

Provincial divisions, as they currently exist, seem almost purpose-bound to create division and dissent. I do think there is something bizarre and self-defeating about the way we govern ourselves these days. Although I’m not sympathetic to the atomizing effect of murdock’s solution, it is increasingly clear that something needs to be done.

I think the start, nominally at least, should be a different and more representative method of electing our political servants. That having been achieved I trust that party traditions might begin to reflect a more accurate assessment of the possible and mimic less the simplistic desires of a few corporate and elitist fat-cats.

Hi Rafe

I'm with you. Dion is the best chance we've got to get Canada into the 21st Century and prevent it from being pushed into the 19th by Harper and his fellow ideologically driven, pro-Bush/US, crazy "Christian" etc. neo-neo-con dilletantes.

I am also convinced that Dion will be our next PM. The majority of Canadians now realize that if Harper ever gained a majority, his agenda would be disastrous.

Harper is crafty, devious and scheming, but not wise. It is also obvious that he has no real vision for Canada and is disconnected from today's reality here and abroad.

Regarding foreign policy, Harper's marching in lock step with the Bushites at the UN and other fora together with his fawning subservience to the pro-Israel lobby demonstrate that he wants to pursue an international agenda that will only lose respect for Canada around the world and do great harm to our real interests.

Tyee, put these folks out of their misery. They keep going round and round on subjects that may start on the subject posted but soon turn to fishing, snow removal and what if's.

I suppose, if Harper, the Cons, and Fraser Institute types were really serious about the markerplace and free enterprise being the best guide to productivity and freedom in this country, they'd immediately put a stop to all business subsidies............

writes Coyote,

In my observations of this only those from eastern Ontario and Quebec are the only ones that even bring up Abraham.

The anglos claim a victory, the Quebeckers claim a 1-1 tie (since the brits won in the autum and the Quebec militiamen won in the winter) with the Royal Navy doing the 'tie' breaking by arriving first.

In the end it was Guadalupe that decided that matter, as the land of snow and beavers was wothless compared to a tiny 'spice' island!

For the majority of the rest of what is now "canada" they could not care less about this two-founding nations crap!

This is the dichotomy that cannot be solved with the current format of either Parliament, the GG or Senate.

I understand why the brain feels the need to take up arms to 're-forge' a new nation. What is missing is a clear view of what that will be...I say that the future world will be less defined by 'physical' barriers than it was in the 20th Century.

Social, emotional, blood-family, clan or other ties will be of more import than 'quasi-imaginary' nationalities.

Just as Canada was built-up bit by bit, so too will the decay come bit by bit.

wrote the brain,

I have not contradicted that at all, nor my own statement of $1.00 becoming $0.78.

The losses come from the pay of the seemingly nunberless mandarins in Ottawa, doing all sorts of busy work, much of which is of dubious value (if not almost worthless).

These $0.78 dollars are what are handed out in 'lolly' to Quebec (officially) it is from the missing $0.22 that the brown paper bags of money were deposited on the desks of those whom 'needed' it as judged by Darth Cretinous.

Love that!!! Very apt!! I will be thinking of this the next time I hear of an MP complaining about his long working hours in such august publications as Maclean's, the reporters of which invariably fail to ask: "Yes, but doing what?"

It was said" seemingly nunberless mandarins, doing all sorts of busy work" and "Love that!!! Very apt!! I will be thinking of this the next time I hear of an MP complaining about his long working hours in such august publications as Maclean's, the reporters of which invariably fail to ask: "Yes, but doing what?"
This reminded me of a question posed to a government appointee to a "job." The appointee was asked, "What are you doing?" The reply was "Just f*cking the dog." Then he was asked by the political neophyte "Now is it a big dog?"

January 3, 2007
Dollar’s Skid Puts a Glow on the Euro
By JEREMY W. PETERS

The dollar slumped yesterday and the euro climbed to a three-week high against the currency.

A steady slide in the value of the dollar since late 2005, primarily against the euro and the British pound, has steepened over the last month amid indications that interest rates will rise in Europe, while the Federal Reserve is expected to cut rates this year.

At the same time, countries with large dollar holdings are showing a new willingness to dump the dollar in favor of the rising euro, though the current activity is seen as posing little long-term risk to the dollar.

Late last month, the United Arab Emirates became the latest country to shift more of its currency reserves away from the dollar, joining Russia, Switzerland, Venezuela and others.

Those moves coincide with ambiguous signals from China about possibly pulling back from the dollar, and recent word from Iran, the world’s fourth-largest oil producer, that it would prefer euros as payment for oil, which is typically priced in dollars.

But currency experts say that this turn away from the dollar is not likely to do any long-term damage to the currency’s value for a number of reasons. First, the motives of central banks that are adding other currencies to their reserves do not appear to be driven by the belief that the euro will eventually supplant the dollar as the world’s key currency. Rather, these central banks are doing what investors do to cut risk: diversifying their portfolios.

Moreover, the amount of currency moved so far has been relatively small in a global market that trades trillions of dollars a day — only about $2 billion in the case of the United Arab Emirates, for example.

“There is some indication that central banks are moving to diversify reserves, but it’s at a very slow pace,” said David Powell, a currency analyst with IDEAglobal. “Is it the start of a massive shift out of the dollar? I would say no.”

Yesterday, the euro traded at $1.3272, up from $1.3198 late Friday in New York. The British pound was at $1.9721, up from $1.9586. The United States dollar index, a measure of the dollar’s strength against a basket of currencies, fell to 83.23 from 83.65 on Friday. In February 2002, the index was at 120.

Thats how it seems... until you live in Quebec and see it for yourself. All you have to do is speak French, pretend your born there and suddenly the whole world opens up to you... including their opinion of the rest of Canada of which the English out here aren't heavily favored. Trust me G. Its there in Quebec, same as here. Assholes everywhere.

Speaking of currencies, part of the reason for the strong Euro and pound is that they too, are jacking up their fed rates to compete and when the money players look around, the U.S. dollar is a dog with outsourced manufacturing and huge debt, even though its fed rates are 2.5 points higher or more.

I'm with Murdock in the sense that the U.S. foreign policies are insane. What they are trying... what they are really trying to do in the middle east, contrary to global warming warnings, contrary to "freedom" and "democracy", is to instill international stock markets in each middle eastern country to buy and own their oil outright on paper. Its what the largest investors and banks want... to control the worlds energy. And if they can't get anywhere with governments there, they'll try coups. And when the coups fail, they'll go to war outright.

The whole reason why they are in Iraq is to appoint a government of their calling to make it happen. Spend a trillion bucks to own Iraqi oil? The U.S. multinational bought warmongering for profit Republican whitehouse thinks so. Iran is next. And its insane. What a gamble to greenhouse the planet and sewer us all. That's greed for you. No sanity whatsoever, just Rome all over again. And the U.S. wonders why they aren't liked. They've done it in South America, Africa, why they've even done it here and quite successfully, I might add. Harpers the icing on their cake.

Arrived EARLIER this evening. Spent the past 3 hours or so taking in what was being said on this Posting.

Realised that I was wanting to listen in and fully comprehend the sense of the discussions. Also was seeking to decipher the reasons for the passion and the determination of the CONTRIBUTORS , who invariably offer what seems to be..., genuine beliefs and positions..*

MAKING ME ONCE AGAIN CELEBRATE THIS DISCUSSION AND PROCESS ( did I get that right ? ..)

Anyway , you get my drift ...,

THANKS , once AGAIN , one and all, for caring enough .. that you offer up some of your valuable time.. ( one and all - you know ..life is short .. just ask .., some of those who no longer exist ,
like the '' plastiniation ',- anybody see that powerfull exposition ? - I highly recommend it to all budding EXPLORERS AND DISCOVERS.., - such as the seekers of knowledge and truth are, that participate in this new found medium of exploration and discovery... ( DISCOVERY OF VOICES.., OUR VOICES *.. CANADA'S VOICES..! ..

Any body seen that exposition as I was saying.., of rarefied '' mummified '' bodies that are on display at the SCIENCE CENTRE .. in VANCOUVER..* ?

But I digress.., it's late , and having just returned from CONTRACTUAL OBLIGATIONS , I am determined to make certain reflections on this MATTER AT HAND..

or is it mind ? , as the saying goes ?

It's great to see that 2007 has not prevented you from contributing some of that valuable national resource and treasure we all have within this country...

IMAGINATION... *... leading me to a wonderfull conclusion .., that there is '' intelligence in the land'' , that there is a determination also to EXIST.., in whatever form each of the participants imagines*.., as an entity, as a PEOPLE.., as a NATION.., as a
yes., thinking, feeeling , caring community!

And before anybody takes a shot at that observation..., please consider that in my world ..:

INTELLIGENCE..*.. is that ability to think- to reflect *.., and eventually - most importantly , to attempt a bold step.., into the arena of ideas..*.., to eventually plant the seeds and reap the collective harvest of THINKING..., which invariably produces the kind of core energy ..*.. mind collective energy .. , at that..,

ENERGY as I was saying , [B]21st Century energy., that comes from the will itself of a PEOPLE.., to simply exist *[/B]

TO BE.., for it is not by any accident that the very notion of .. I THINK , THEREFORE I AM.., has been one of the most powerful observation ever devised by the homo sapiens.. creature that has emerge to the position it holds in the scheme of things on this planet..!

. that will , in turn , (this ability to THINK ) determine the survival of those NATIONS .., ''those collectives'' , '' those tribes , for lack of a better word..'' that have found a way to harvest that greatest of RESOURCE...,

self directed and activated intelligence*..!

Good Night , and Good Luck..on that one RAFE..,

And while I'm at it.., this question I would like answered by anyone who feels themselves deeply knowledgeable enough to answer this one.., ( since were talking of the individual and collective minds of this country , and the ability to think.. and intelligence itself.. or the DEVELOPMENT THEREOF and THEREIN.., )

( EDUCATION) being my subject of interest at this moment ..

Can anyone enlighten me , as I began to ask.., .. on what are their understanding of the status of EDUCATION IN CANADA is?.. ( as per the powers that were conveyed to the PROVINCES.. under the BNA ACT..*...?)

This question has some baring on the comments that were made.., as per one of the provinces educational system.. and so , I would like to know what the understanding is by those that post on this subject matter above.., - what is your understanding of how all provinces of Canada evolved, in their respective implementation of each of their individual and unique educational programs..,

YOU KNOW..,(* as to the road travelled...) AND THE TRIAL AND TRIBULATIONS OF EACH PROVINCE., of putting in place an EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM.. in their respective territories..

ANY TAKERS ?
Thanks.., I'll tune in from time to time, to reflect and respond in kind..

Happy New Year..

Village..

Hi Village, Happy New Year:

We couldn't continue our past discussion, because it got archived before I could post another comment. However, I felt you would join in soon on this somewhat related topic.

Yes, we saw the BodyWorld's 3/plastination ...which I found excellent. It was fascinating and also done in good taste.

PS I will comment some more later.

Dion, Chrétien, Dion ,Chrétien, the only difference between these two ,Chrétien spoke from the left side of his yap , Dion speaks from the udder side of his yap. Now it would appear that Rafe does also. Previously Rafe said he would vote for The Green Party, here is a small quote from that post.

http://thetyee.ca/Views/2005/12/12/WhyImVotingGreen/

I was going to vote Green, now,You have convinced me other wise Rafe.
The Liberals, NDP, Greens they all smell the same, the only difference, their from different manure piles, clearly, the only way to go is with The Conservatives

I thought you were voting Green Woody, seems to me you're in the midst of a re-alignment too.

Yes Maestro, I realised that's what happened. ( the discussions. Being archived .., and such ).

Nice to see you made it through another one of these '' benchmarks '' imaginative constructs , in any other deciphered code, by any other name , , '' that we .., (*homo sapiens ) created right out of our evolutionary leap to imagination itself. .., to ., yes , INTELLIGENCE.

Tools , such as CALENDARS.., studies of the celestial bodies.., observation on this time and movement, of the WINTER SOLSTICE.. and all..., the passing of the seasons, the eventual agricultural applications , to solve the ever on going search for sustenance.. and on and on.

CULTURE.. as in agri-culture , this time around.. THIS MIND AROUND*..,

( Thoughts of Neil Young.. emerging.., of a song he had.. stating that : to come around... simply find someone that's turning*... or something to that effect*.. a powerful wistful and at times wise imaginative solution..., to.., if you find yourself.., ----------, then find yourself someone that's TURNING. A wonderful bit of advice..- probably to himself..- as he put wonderful music and a very unique and at first strange voice*.., TO A HAUNTING MELODY.

''find someone who's turning and you will come around *.. '' there, I remember the famous line that I felt was so helpful for anyone.. who'd been to the very limits and edge of existence itself.., as I sense in his music and words THAT HE HAD..*

Sorry for straying of the trail a bit..BUT,the fact that, in some strange way.., that voice.., THAT INDIVIDUAL.. WHO ROOTS FROM THIS PART OF THE PLANET... did leave his unique mark.., with an original voice.., a unique experience...

Wonder how he managed to explore and discover his magic? , his unique inner voice &...( I'll wager a bet that it wasn't because of the EDUCATION he received up in CANADA.,) or maybe perhaps , in spite of the exposure he had to it's attempts and influence.. - that wanted to basically shape his mind and way of thinking..,

He obviously managed to hold on to his very own.., * a lesson for all of us.., wanderers and ponderers who invariably are trying to make sense of our individual and collective EXISTENCE*

I'll be interested in hearing of your comments . especially as it relates to the state of EDUCATION in this country and how it came to be..,[B]a unique preview of the PROVINCES..* ..[/B]

( continued ...)

Hey WOODIE.., it would be nice to hear and come full circle with you on some of the unfinished conversations we had in a previous post* ..,

Did you see them ? .., if not, do you want me to search them out and bring them forward to this active forum ? ..

They are related , these conversations , and perhaps , by picking up where we left of, we would complete our very own..probe into the IDENTITY question itself.. ( which as you know is a determining factor .. of whether any entity*.., goes on existing or simply passes the remaining part of their lives.., worrying about worrying itself.., a bit like another piece of wisdom that was passed unto us by an individual who said .. THAT THE ONLY THING ONE HAS TO FEAR IS FEAR ITSELF..one of the truism of any millennia .., for lack of the very essence of ROOTS.., ( just ask any tree...they ,in a chorus, as will FORESTS themselves.. provide a very clear VOICE on this MATTER and MIND )

. And ,anyway , it would be nice to EXPLORE and Discover a bit further ..
''in a mind to mind exchange '' ,taking a walk in the woods together , so to speak , so that we can better grasp where we are coming from, as to the very IDEA OF CANADA.

as these opportunities only rarely.. present itself to any who ventures boldly forward.. what do you say ?

Nice seeing you in this NECK OF.... ,
well you get the drift of my thinking.

Anyway, hope you can find the time to respond to some of the questions I presented to you... back when.

TAKE CARE,
Village.

UNFINISHED MATTER , UNFINISHED MINDS*..

yup ., pretty describes all of us.., up here in the TRUE NORTH..

COMPASS AND BARINGS..

anyone.. ?

( in my books these are all good things , by the way..., for it tends to invite us to finish the WORKS IN PROGRESS that is this very experiment.)

THIS COUNTRY!

CANADA

G West said,

Well I thought ,what the hell if Captain Rafe is abandoning the ship, no sense in me being the last one to board the life boat, additionally I heard a blip on the news this morning, apparently the Conservatives are looking pretty receptive to the Quebeckers.

village, sorry there guy, I was off line when I wrote my reply to G West,I will return in a couple of hours.

The key will be Charest, Woody, in my view. If the PQ wins the provincial election then pee wee is in lots of trouble - the main question now is whether pee wee has the jam to lose a vote in the house so he can call an election before the provincial vote in Quebec.

He's a guy who seems to act on impulse so my guess is he'll go right after the budget which will be a cornucopia of goodies he thinks will make a platform impressive enough to beat Dion.

If pee wee wins - and your green vote was more than just a protest - you'd be better to move to London and vote for Elizabeth May.

I'd think I’d like to see her in the House - no matter who wins.

My view , upon more reflection as well having read some of these posts, is that Quebec is perhaps more open to shifting allegiances /alliances towards the Tory party.

The LIEberals cannot wean themselves of bad habits...no matter how delusionary they and their supporters are. It's in need of a retroactive enema as well as truckload of such for the foreseeable future.

In my view, Dion is just the fall guy, no matter how good or bad he may actually be .

Perhaps a perfect time for the Tories to review and re-assess what Quebec within Canada and vice versa can be more clearly defined. "Certainty" versus this bogus ad - nauseum waffling.

The LIEberals are on the same path as the NDP,...the mask is being exposed and their ain't much there behind it. The gas tank is empty and one can only run downhill on the fumes for so long.

Really, what DO the LIEberals have to offer, leopards don't change their spots....and the more leopards in the pack the even less likely.

Quebec should simply distance itself from the LIEberal Pusher/Power Addict party party. Being an Addict AND concurrently a Pusher as well leads to all sorts of interesting situations, mostly negative.

Much like the Province of Quebec is beginning to do in the collective process of re-discovering it's ROOTS.., so must the rest of Canada..

Programs on RADIO-CANADA .., such as Serge Bouchard's .. LES REMARKABLES OUBLIÉS.., point to a point to a genuine effort to correct the deficiency... that exist in the JE ME SOUVIENS ...(memory) of that particular province !

Such is also the sad reality that the other Provinces have a very long way to go to simply grasp the CANADA OF OLD..
(* Nearly 500 years under construction ).. which is simply .., out of sight out of mind.. for all kind of reasons .., for all kinds of ..
deficiencies of our EDUCATIONAL APPROACH .. in all of the PROVINCES OF CANADA..

No wonder.., no wonder our comments and observations are blurred by the fog of our ... perception and understanding on how we came to be..

And so , how does this relate to the article above ?... simply put .., explains away the kind of comments and struggles we have.. in coming to terms with our very existence.., and by extension creating the kind of ...
futility that is felt at times..,by citizens of goodwill,, who simply cannot wrap their experience.., around the ROOTS and FONDATIONS themselves.., that , until , this happens.. will prevent the ..,

EXISTENCE.. OF CANADA.. in any contextual framework.. you choose to imagine..

Thus , our need to .., accept the challenge of admiting our mutual existence of each others road travelled would go a long way.., in creating the
'' light at the end of the proverbial identity tunnel , we find and lose ourselves in...'' most of the time..
AS THESE COMMENTS AND POSTINGS ATTEST TO.., all too clearly !

Can't we all accept the fact that we have individualy and collectively our HOMEWORK to do..! .. in EDUCATING ourselve to the footing and historical foundations of our .. '' sense of place'', '' sense of belonging '' and sense of community/indentity..?

THIS WILL BRING TO ALL OF US A SENSE OF SELF CONFIDENCE.., that will .. simply
remove the confusion , the desperation .. the negativity that we exude , from time to time.. and from mind to mind..

Take Care..

We are much like.. : the Blind leading the BLIND..

, Village.

Our political culture ... suffers tremendously from this MEMORY LAPSE.. individually and collectively speaking.. which in turns .. creates the parochial
READ PROVINCIAL ..approach that is all so prevalent in this country.

When do we break the chains of ignorance that has shackled us for so very long..?

When do we mature as a PEOPLE.. who can confidently tell our stories , our NARRATIVE.., to the point of providing for all newcomers .., a sense of that kind of CONFIDENCE.. that can only be displayed by those who have the knowledge of their past.. , and the accompanying pride of being able to share this with confidence and agility , in the present along with a accompanying vision and determination as to facing the future !

Think about this.. when you attempt to devine the political landscape and mindscape of tomorrow.., as we are doing with these exchanges..*

Thanks for the chance to way in on these discussions..

Take Care.
Village.

Hello Village:

How about I start with Body Worlds 3(something we both can relate to having both visited) as part of our continued discussion.

A few years ago when I FIRST read about this human body preservation process/exhibit, and my initial reaction was "not pleasant"...a view it was some rebellious artiste' out for shock value.

Then, over time, one would hear more about it...and perhaps the shock value lessened. Then I heard that it was coming to Vancouver and put it on our "must see" list . (We pre-purcahsed tickets so as to force ourselves to not forget).

I recall that their were some concerns expressed by the public, some regarding the dignity of the deceased etc.

However, once we entered I was intrigued on many levels. It was very tasteful done and a good blend of art and science.
One body, you will recall was displayed in a praying position with arms on a crucifix and a human heart as well , and this display was used to allay concerns about any religious protests to this exhibit, at least with respect to Christianity. It seguayed into how Christianity accepted the study of human anatomy ie the dissection of bodies hundreds of years ago, which ultimately benefitted future medical advances.

The exhibits were cleverly done, ie leaving the lips, noses, and eyebrow areas intact to maintain an individuality, for their removal, in hindsight, would make them look a bit grotesque and less human . The various poses were on various athletic themes which seemed to actually give them life, if one saw and read in the irony,( versus simply lying flat in a funereal sleeping position).

Many bodies appeared to be very fit and muscular, which left one wondering how they died(more irony), though the exhibit noted that such information was confidential.

The health issues were also well done, the affects of many diseases, many of which are preventable.

All -in -all, we who attended this exhibit left far greater educated on what an amazing thing the human body is, a chance otherwise afforded only to anatomy and medical students.

PS before I left...I bought the $40 book, and will look forward to reading it.

Simply part of another "Journey of Discovery" in Life...a new way to look at something "old" and established.

Didn't bother you that some of the 'bodies' may have been people 'executed' by the Chinese Government for God knows what crime and that informed consent may not have been an issue or even considered?

Not sure it wasn't just another way to exploit the powerless.

maestro did you happen to notice some of the exhibits were Lacking brains? I heard those ones had been NDP- Liberal supporters.

Well Maestro , I also was reluctant to see this exhibit at first.* ( not for the same reasons as you, at the beginning because I hadn't taken notice..of what I'd only gotten a glimpse of through the NEWSPAPERS and this resulting conclusion - that I initially filed away in my mind - was that the whole idea of this EXHIBIT reminded me more of the idea of attractions that one would find in the CIRCUS of OLD.. ( you know.. step right up Folks !.. Barney style and all.. ) , and simply found the stories and images they were using to let people know of this kind of offerings.., were usually hype and often disappointing .. and never living up to the selling points they were making..)..

And so had decided not to see it..,

BUT.., one evening all the while visiting downtown Vancouver.., - having had a beautiful walk on the North Shore , taking in the ravages of that storm recently .. photographing some very beautiful '' dead '' trees...
( funny how alive NATURE is..and serene I might add.., even in so called state of death itself.. the very idea of passing.. that obsesses the THINKING ANIMAL so..,as we choose to call whatever we think has died.. around us )..

anyway.. it was a very wonderful evening.., with hints of another ''blowdown'' coming also.. gusty winds and heavy rain coming down., enveloping me in the excitement of NATURE'S POWER..., when I decided , much too late , to cross the Lions Gate bridge..,and all the while.. using my camera.. captured the intensity of the rain, light and shimmering canvas of delight that was visited upon me.., as I made my way ... taking PICTURES every 1000 yards also.. - you know how easy this is with a digital camera..- wonderfully happy for the light show I was capturing and the sensation it provided.., as I approached STANLEY PARK.. etc..

(continued... )

ANYWAY.. , at one point in that evening I remembered that this exhibit might still be around.. and with hailing pouring rain.., made my way to the SCIENCE CENTRE..

WHAT A POWERFUL FEELING CAME OVER ME.. WHEN I REALISED..- HAVING OVERHEARD THE COMMENTATOR SAYING THAT THESE WERE TO BE REAL ONCE UPON LIVING .. NOW DECEASED INDIVIDUALS..( ENTITIES ) THAT HAD BEEN SOMEHOW NOT ONLY PRESERVED AND ..
MUCH LIKE AN ARTIST WHO WAS A A MATERIAL ARTIST DOING SCULPTURE , BEEN SHAPED AND FORMED TO GIVE THE VIEWER AN OPTIMAL VIEW OF THE VERY .., MYSTERIES AND ENTRAILS OF MY INNERS..*¸

There was indeed a sensation that I would be let in the mysteries of .. the UNIVERSE in so many ways.., and I was reminded.., in my mind , that Leonard DeVinci HAD TO STEAL BODIES from Cemeteries.. to have a peak inside..,the most mysterious dimensions of our CONSTRUCTRUCTION.., and that I was also going to be able to do ..! the most sacrilegious act was about to take place.. in my experience of looking at death in it's face.. (*this was the drama..inside my very imaginative mind at that moment )..

hence.. yes.. a Journey of EXPLORATION and DISCOVERY.. no doubt about it.. and I,alsoMAESTRO ,I was individually/singularly touched and left with a profound sensation - as I am sure others were -that for every breathe that I take and everyday that I experience being alive itself.. - not only this body in MOTION per se.. but also in exhilaration at times..,in a moment of great awakening.., all the while experiencing the ultimate sensation of.., sheer ecstasy and DELIGHT itself., at the very thought of THINKING and IMAGINATION itself..and all of the UNIVERSES it ( THE MIND ) opens up for me..,

reminds ultimately me of the awe and wonder of .. this very existence.., that I perpetually experience.. on a mysterious.. BREATH BY BREATH basis.., movement and all., of my limbs readily in motion.. simply by a thought and wonderfully powerful deeply imbedded within my being.. ( A MIND ECOLOGY THESIS at work here.. ladies and gentleman.. )

What a wonderful re-discovery , what a wonderful exploration also.., of what it might mean to no longer exist..,and then fully EXPERIENCE THE AWE AND WONDER OF BEING ALIVE .. all in one moment of awakening.. of taking inside oneself.. one's cells also.. the very act of INTELLIGENCE..

One more time..,I WAS REMINDED OF THAT WONDERFUL FEELING via another powerful experience of simply thinking through that most illusive of FRONTIER called THE MIND*..,

the very first and last frontier ..*(the mind that is ). in needing of comprehension , of mapping.., exploration and Discovery.. Brave New Worlds...indeed.. and infact.. ( as in INFORMATION ACTION.)

thanks for sharing that thought, and making me realise the depth of the experience of that visit . Maestro.

Village,

Now how do these off the trail discussions relate to the topic written by Rafe..?

''Dion might be able to keep Canada alive and in the game.'' says rafe.., and when thinking more on the very idea of being alive.., there does begin to be.. a relevance .. in our discussing these inert yet very informative '' bodies'' that were in this exhibit.. at the SCIENCE CENTRE..

Just think of CANADA.. as a body politic having been donated to this organisation for an autopsy of sorts.., and think further of their skills in peering INSIDE THE ..'' BODY POLITIC '' OF ANY COUNTRY as a metaphor of our times..,
and BINGO.., we have contact.., we have relevance.. and we have LIFT OFF...

IMAGINATION in flight , I will agree.. yet what is conversation, what is deliberations such as these .. if not one of shared intelligence.., the very act of .. IN - TELL(ing ).. as in taking inside one's self and cells.. the observations, feelings and data that we are forever receiving from all points of views , points of perspectives..

So , where do we go from here, ladies and gentleman..

I personally proposed to the Publisher of the TYEE.. that he should organise a 21 Century style.., CANADA construction style Conference.., which would harness the emerging tools of the day..along with the emerging CITIZEN JOURNALIST.. such as those that contribute in these forums.., to infact take on not only the challenge of defining 21st Century Canada... BUT clearly set out the parameters and the blueprint.. in how to go about achieving this worthy goal...

We are a creative lot..and have got the BRAIN and MIND POWER to bring to the table a resolution.., to the design quandary of the CANADA of tomorrow..

ARCHITECTS.. ladies and gentleman..
this is what we need.., a SUMMIT ..
citizens summit.., on the very existence of CANADA..

and me thinks that what I experience when I visit the TYEE.., as a case in point.. convinces me.. that we have..- IN HOUSE..- all the mind, brain and intelligence ingredient.. to successfully come up with the NEXT STEP .. * (baby steps , I'll grant you ).. for we are forever.. a WORKS IN PROGRESS.. and 21st Century bound..

remember..: we did , after all inherit the 20th Century.. AS laurier predicted.., we simply never did fully understand what the word inherit means.., for to inherit..as any one will tell you..,the CENTURY HAD TO HAVE PASSED ON..and been completed..

WELL, were here .. in a 21ST CENTURY window of existence.. and having as it was predicted..inherited a deep grasp and understanding of the WORLD that we've experienced so far.. - having so many connections to the Global Village itself.. as to make us the ultimate and legitimate '' power broker ''.. , middle kingdom and all.. as we've been described for many centuries.., now arrived.., on the WORLD STAGE..

it is up to the PEOPLE'S OF CANADA now to awaken to their destiny.. to their inheritance also.. and most important of all..

to their NARRATIVE ( stories ) and ultimate destiny .

A PEOPLE'S OF THE QUESTION MARK..by any other name.., fully cognisant of the journey needing to be made.. prior to arriving at a meaning of it's EXISTENCE.. thus making us.., thinkers..world thinkers.. full participants..in the CANADA branded expression.. '' GLOBAL VILLAGE'' which Marshal McLuhan for one..,offered , in a futuristic language form..,

that was to revolutionise how we experienced our technologies.., and revolutionised , most important of all, how we internalised..,within our individual and collective imaginations.. the very act of THOUGHT itself..,

Land of Communications.., indeed !

Village..

Village,

I'm going through another one of my "busy spells", though I did take time to do a cross country ski today, and hence will be away some more than usual from Tyee. I am glad I read your stuff here though. Interesting stuff, you are charged with energy and raring to go. Good. We need more, much more of it yet.

For contrary to the neoconservative nay sayers and others, like you say, there is the brain power and capacity to fight and win in this country, if it can but be harnessed. And the Libs, NDP, Greens, BCFed and the rest of them are not the solution, but more of the problem. Which is not to be willing to work with any of these parties where that proves mutually useful.

I've been reading some stuff from Robin Matthews, and from Peter Dimitrov today, and grass roots movement building is afoot, have no doubt. It is early days still, of course, but movement is going on. Hopefully, soon here, it will begin to gel up into something more concrete than simply the yada, yada file that has been about it thus far. Watch for it. If you know who and where, work with it. (And keep the pressure on Tyee as well, to be part of the solution and not the problem-, the latter seeming to be its natural tendency want sometimes. :-)

Rome was not built in a day, nor is it likely to be brought down in but one. But ancient Rome was finally brought down, and so will this new one be.

Keep the faith, brother.

it's the 5th of January , 2007, and after a good night sleep.., am indeed raring to go ! , as you put it CAYOTE..,
and by the way , thanks for the suggestions and the '' heads up '' as per Robin Mathews and Peter Dimitri..., I'll look into these.

The movements are indeed , ''forthcoming'' and with the natural instinct we've developed in CANADA , to solve communications related challenges , such as GEODESIC COMMUNICATIONS SATELLITES.., how else were we going to even imagine..linking up this very very large territory..?*.. ( making us , from the word go.. a communications giant in the global village that Marshall so well described in his.., technology extensions observations.. )

Even prior to that benchmark reached in communications.. when it came to the use of SATELLITES .. we were forever - as a People - attempting to come to grips with the vast dominion.. * terrain that we ,not only imagined for ourselves., ,but went about, as busy as a Beaver could , SURVEYING it's immensity.. ( the inventory was on !),

indeed , all of the PEOPLE's that came to call CANADA home..,were invited in this Quest in this search for the full inventory*.. ( this was the fundamental reason and still is..for our on going INSTINCTUAL ingrained IMMIGRATION POLICIES that have blessed us with the imaginations and the cultures of the world.

We , in our history , never flinched in front of the impossible..,be it in our composite identity of the pieces that made up the whole.. or .., in our.. MIND OF CANADA determination.., as a PEOPLE's who would fully appreciate what NATURE herself.. has bestowed on all of us.. in her gifts and in her grandeur..*..

We are , by history , and by each ''others '' questioning step we've taken thus so far.. a THINKING PEOPLE'S PEOPLE. And though other culture's would see us bland at times.., the true intelligent types living on this planet .. know us to be true and true .. ( and NORTH! ) to be sure !! ( Make no mistake about that ).. of our cousins beyond the 49th... We are a different breed , and we clearly need an up to date INVENTORY of our accomplishments thus far. The inherent Knowledge of the lands we choose to call home..,calls on us to tap into our mental inventory.. ( memories , archives and explorations and discoveries.. that have forever been a guarantee of all people's who value their ROOTS..)
¸

And so the question is.. what do we do with this enviable position and status we've inherited from a communications legacy that has been passed on to us.. ,

from generations of CANADIENS and CANADIANS.. each at the very limits of definition and ( past future ) memory .To the NEW CANADIANS who have been invited to come and complete the DREAM.., to fill in the blanks really of such a vast undertaking.., of such a vast uncharted territory.., the very first and last frontier of our very unique and individual/collective IMAGINATION.. having become one*.

MIND OF CANADA ...

Our '' global village '' repositioning/geopositioning mainframe/mindframe within a world that has lost for the most part..,bearing and compass.., brings to our shore an opportunity to take up the challenge of COMMUNICATIONS.. HUMAN COMMUNICATIONS on A GRAND SCALE..,

MAP technology and UNIVERSAL TIME tables and charts for RAILWAY FUNCTIONALITY .., notwithstanding , we have consistently wanted to.. nay NEEDED TO .., imagine a different kind of future that would have us .. become KNOWLEDGEABLE about our HOME.. about our LAND..* (*the First Nations with their thousand years of deepest of knowledge of these very lands we coveted..,has made all of us 21st Century resulting settlers of these lands..,by their enduring existence and determination to be recognised.. also as the residents , the inhabitants of the CANADA OF TOMORROW.. ) .

continued....

We do need to fill in the blanks that exist in our IMAGE NATION.., that sits very deeply imbedded within our ''COLLECTIVE '', thus MIND OF CANADA..

people's of Canada..,when will you take your destiny in hand..?

it's still your land.., you best understand her, you've -over generations- innerstood her , at times outerstood her,and yet, THOUGH WE HAVE NOT REACHED A COMPLETE UNDERSTANDING AMONGST OURSELVES and individual cells..,

she has never ever left you indifferent.. for she inhabits your mind .,even though you might even question it's existence at times..,

WE'VE INHERITED A MIND OF CANADA legacy that will stand the test of time.. (reason and rhyme..).

LAND , (ladies and gentleman) ., the very source of our imaginations.. collectively speaking..

( no wonder you enjoy these ''cross country skiing outings COYOTE..)

Take Care..,

I'll be looking to hear your reflections once you come back from your '' busy period ''.. probably doing what all Coyote's so well know to do.., as they
keep on top of their designated territories..*..

be on the lookout for the Beavers.., they have a special knowledge of this LAND OF OURS.. , and of course.., not off course.., are the off springs of our great experiment.. ( not to belittle the land of the turtle.. who for thousand of years served another culture that preceded ours..), a 500 year old world fusion and cultural revolution ready to go the distance..

Our Children..,looking up to us..,wondering , dreaming and contributing to our happiness..,as they bring to the Home and the Heartland.. a contribution. .. of exceptional value..
unconditional love.. ,

What a gift and what a source of inspiration.. are we going to let them down and not pass on this great experiment to them ?.. this is our obligations now.., not only to them but to our individual and collective selves.. AS DEEP AS YOU CARE TO TAKE THIS THOUGHT.. RIGHT DOWN TO YOUR VERY EXISTENCE AND CELLS..

have a good day.., and a safe journey CAYOTE..

Village.

G West:

Body Worlds 3

For the most part, I do enjoy debating and sparring with you etc. on the TYEE.

However, at times I think you really stretch the bow beyond yourself trying to be funny with dry wit OR otherwise.

However, your comment suggesting the Bodies on exhibit were executed Chinese prisoners is rather bizarre.

IF you attended the exhibit, it's creators noted that all bodies were acquired via donation/legal consent, and it also had exhibited an enlarged copy of the donation agreement.

According to their information,there is also a ready supply of donors, and no need to access the bodies through other more dubious means. This is apparently a non -profit organization , which also provides these preserved bodies to various other qualified non- profit/educational etc. institutes for the cost of the preservation process.

Further, as I mentioned earlier, many facial characterstics were preserved on the exhibits, , and I did not observe any bodies which had Non- Caucasian features.

I think that if any of these bodies had come from Chinese prisoners, that type of news would leak out very quickly...and I don't think the creators or the Science World exhibitors want or need that kind of negative publicity.

Perhaps maestro, you'll be interested in the following article from the New York Times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/08/business/worldbusiness/08bodies.html?ex=1312689600&en=672da5787d998daf&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

Please pay particular attention to paragraphs 6 - 10. If, for some reason, you can't open the file let me know. I have a copy in my files.

G West:

Thanks for the link...but upon review its full of "allegations" and further stretches.

Von Hagens , who originated the concept, was also interviewed in the video link. Obviously he has inspired imitators. It appears these competitors are cashing in on the popularity as well. As I alluded to , he states most of his donors are of European origin, but any use of Chinese bodies is also not illegal.

His establishment of "a facilty in China" , like many other entrepeneurs have done, , is more the global norm. Seems like this " executed Chinese prisoners " allegation always gets submitted in similar issues.

I also read into the interview and the article that there are many Chinese medical school grads who cannot find work and he is accessing all this available talent.

Some examples may slip through the cracks, but much like anything else in life at times does.

By the way. .THE THINKER had clear...
ASIAN like features.. from my recollection of that particular exhibit.

It was the one that I was very fascinated with. Having a powerfull motif and clear link to RODIN's Masterpiece . And successfully sending a thought provoking UNIVERSAL message...as to the HUMAN CONDITION and the marvel and mystery of EXISTENCE itself..

Village.

As to the article in the NEW YORK times.., I did not have time to read it..

AND WILL PASS ON IT for the moment as I was reflecting on .. Rafe's observations and statements.. and quoted a few of his.. ( With comments of my own ) that followed.

For example.. :

quoting RAFE.. :

''There are other matters that have become Ottawa traditions, such as subsidizing the hell out of Central Canadian industries, the most notable being Bombardier. Special considerations for big Central Canadian industry, very much including the banks, also amount to subsidies. This is part of Canada's economic way of life, going back to the national policy of Sir John A. Macdonald, which, in essence, made Western Canada hewers of wood to be sent back to Ontario, where the industrial results were sent back to Western Canadians at inflated prices protected by Ottawa tariffs. That policy remains part of the Ottawa psyche.''

How else could it have been.... way back when.. Rafe.?., with the historical fact and reality...that but for the deep roots of the First Nations in this part of CANADA.. there was very little CRITICAL MASS.. as per POPULATION itself.. that could have propelled the industrial revolution forward.. let alone the fact that the AMERICAN WESTWARD push at the time.. .was breathing the founding fathers of Canada... right down their nose.. and neck !

Hence.. a bit a context and content please.. so that we can go about , in reality and in true factual historical spirit, build the 21st Century Canada... by the only means we have at our individual and collective disposal... PEOPLE rafe , PEOPLE and their willingness.., their imagination and their spirit... which can only be harnessed with the ... TRUTH.., with the passion and the factual backgrounder to the ''road travelled '' of the earliest of pioneers and those that followed them... in a QUEST for a NATION... ( homeland ).. that would eventually provide...,

not only the substance to live.. but the potential for dreams and vision and above all.. .day to day projects... that would enhance our respective individual as well as COLLECTIVE LIVES..*...

THE then, EMERGING MIND OF CANADA... also westward bound and expanding on what is , to this day a 500 year near experiment .. worthy of explaining away with a CLARITY ACT of each and everyone of us..

THIS IS THE STUFF OF SUCCESSFUL COUNTRIES..and we are no exemption to the rule... of collaboration to the rule also of .. a need for deeply ingrained knowledge and consequent spirit that comes from... a clarity.. : speaking of a clarity act.., this is the most urgent challenge to face... ( TO GET OUR ACT TOGETHER...) contextually speaking , communications Canada wide speaking also...

as per : THE NARRATIVE.. of our history.. of our becoming !, of our beginnings .. and of our story telling .
Even as we tackle this moment and tomorrow .

Take Care , Rafe.. ( good article..)
Village

You manage to get people thinking and that's fine by me. Let's just go further with this project*

Would you consider being part of a CONFERENCE of sort that would attempt the impossible ? Actually , more clearly put .. will you accept to be part of a conference bringing together 21st CENTURY ARCHITECTS.. ( citizen journalist ) who would go about finding the approach and the strategy and the
steps required in constructing .. a uniquely designed HOUSE..

CANADA?

Village .

Village:

In a huge country, that is becoming increasingly urbanized...and populations further concentrated, can't the socio-political quasi-thermodynamic forces explain much of what is gong on ?

Isn't each Province itself simply in the process on laying the foundation for a nation -state...or to be more precise a " Province -nation".

Thus,does not the umbrella country /nation becomes more irrelevant due to these forces in play ?

as per the ''OTTAWA PSYCHE''.. rafe..., it was out of obvious practical and necessary STRATEGY..., end of story!

Get over it.., they... CANADA OF OLD.. had not only the POPULATION .. but had the history... they were CANADA! , FOR GOD'S SAKE..

and besides... the complete picture of how the west was settled...- especially out WEST-..., is going to take some doing.. ( as per the homework that will be required... by those that claim to have CANADA at heart...)..indeed.. , need I bring up the conflicting interpretations and confusion that is communicated... Historically and Educationally speaking for many generations... and is this not endemic of a PROBLEM.. we have as per our collective history ? ..

OTTAWA PSYCHE.. indeed... for was it not for the kind of ''big picture'' approach that this part of our HOUSE had way back when... we would not even be speaking RAFE...let alone disagreeing from time to time.. and MIND TO MIND..*

We are a product of that determination by our ancestors to arrive at some kind of GOVERNANCE that would guarantee..., from Sea to Sea...a Nation.. and a PEOPLE's that would inherit... as LAURIER so well predicted.. the 20th Century...

WELL WE'VE ARRIVED... NOW WHAT ARE WE AS THE CHILDREN OF THESE FOUNDERS GOING TO DO WITH WHAT THEY'VE PASSED ON TO US?... and what is our strategy and plans.. as to our children... yes children of CANADA.. who are there looking up to us.., in a bewildered sense of wonderment and expectation that we will PROVIDE..*

Can you about imagine..., what they will think... DECADES hence..if we do not fullfill our duty... not only to them and familly..but to our country... ,TO what is after all.. though a world experiment... worthy of not only fighting for...but being creative ... being awake and willing... in a CONSTRUCTION of proportions.., of scale.. and purpose.., to reach certain conclusion of our state of mind. Of our thinking , feeling , imagined at times .. sense of CANADA itself.

MIND OF CANADA , indeed..,

let's get on with it..

village ..

Maestro, your reflections asks of every Canadian ,in many ways... to seriously think through the very MIND CONSTRUCT that has been a guarantee of sorts of the fact that to this day the very brand called CANADA.. even to this day exist*..

Think back of the UNION JACK days.. and how from Ottawa a decision was made to break rank with the EMPIRE..,by simply going about , in search of a FLAG.. a very simple act.. but one that could not have come from any other place then...from OTTAWA itself..

Which is an aggregate really of all of our individual and collective aspirations , to begin with.. WITHIN THIS EVOLVING GOVERNANCE model that we've come to build for ourselves...

Make no mistake about it.. , our COMMUNICATIONS INSTINCTS .. in this HOUSE OF CANADA .. has much roots in the determination of OTTAWA to maintain an integrity of identity and an integrity of purpose.. even if at times their ( politicians integrity ) was in question..

Our MIND OF CANADA.. aggregate intelligence in many ways found it's way to OTTAWA.. as the cleavage forces of such a large territory converged and clashed at times.. though , always finding a way to compromise.. , one of the endearing characters of our NATION *

Indeed.., the wilderness backdrop..forever present in our thoughts..along with all of that spirit that comes with being alive and in touch with NATURE.. in that very immense TERRITORY we have successfully begun to do the inventory.. , thereof and therein, but have as of yet to complete indeed ,that most important of integration. Our individual and collective MINDS*. ( bar none )

KNOWLEDGE OF OUR LAND...is .. the most urgent ''next step '' for each of us.. who love this land..,

and want it to not only survive but thrive.

Village.

there's snow out there, and NATURE CALLS.
( in more ways then one ).

I'll look forward to your reflections Maestro.

Meanwhile, I will listen very carefully to what the land has to share on this magical snow landscape / mindscape DAY!

I'm also very receptive to the comments that any CITIZEN JOURNALIST has , as per the 21st Century Construction project I propose..

ARCHITECTS .. and clearly blueprints and designs.. needed. No idea is too small or too big for that matter.. ( for are we not talking of MIND ! ) And is not infinity privy to that universe.?

Imagination , and freedom of thought itself.. in hindsight , foresight and
above all CLEAR SIGHT..

Now for that walk in the snow.

A FOOTPRINT. ( and a signature .) GO!

Take Care,
Village.

5th of January , 2007
Village.

Obviously I disagree maestro. I think the source of many of the bodies and the systems of collection in China is highly suspect. I hope people don't go to the exhibit for exactly that reason - but thanks at least for reading the article and acknowledging your error in your personal attack on me. Never argue a question unless you know the answers in advance.
On another point, Americans aren’t the only folks to outsource their dirty work to China.

Village, I think one could add Alcan as another huge Quebec based multi-national whose presence here in BC and the benefits of which (not always positive as pointed out in another thread here) for this province is at least something of an answer to Rafe's condemnation of Bombardier.

I have some difficulty defending either corporation but the point needs to be made once again that the ROC would lose a great deal if Quebec were to strike out on its own.

Westerly, I may have stated a trend when I defected from the Greens to the Conservatives this week . I wonder, do you think its possible that I may have influenced Wajid Khan to switch also to the Conservatives from the Liberals? hummmmm ,I wonder.

Just as I was ready to walk out the door!

thanks for that observation Gwest..

I'll get back to you on other comments .
But before I go , I thought I would also run the question to you*.

You know the idea of a CONSTRUCTION CONFERENCE...re; 21ST Century Canada and all...

Would you accept to participate in such an EXPLORATION and eventual DISCOVERY*

OF each of our individual and collective thought processes as to how we would go about continuing the construction that has been under way for the last 500 years and more when you factor in the First Nations influence from all regions of Canada itself.. ( which we must remember did not have that name and brand until the European Settlers adopted the name as their very own.). and went about settling the LAND. The rest is history..

and all we really need is to share the KNOWLEDGE OF THE FOUNDATIONS ..of the CONSTRUCTION SITE itself.. upon which this HOUSE was built to better understand ,outerstand and innerstand it's true identity* and eventual destiny*

Are you in ?

Take Care, I'll check in later for your reaction... ( the snow is melting away ) and contractual obligations call*

Village.

And a quick hello to you WOODIE ...as I rush out the door.

ANY SNOW in your neck of the woods?

Village.

Nope, sorry woody, don't think so. For my position on the Khan movement you should check the Ambrose thread.

I just had lunch with a number of guys in the construction industry and they're all gonna vote conservative too.

I'm not happy about it but I've been saying Harpo would win the election in 2007 for quite a while. I'm sure you noticed.

village, [/B]WOOD you know it , but Yew are becoming quite Poplar here at the Tyee
ANY SNOW in your neck of the woods? You asked, that’s about where its at, up to my neck, ( little woody can’t be left out LONG[B], too cold ) I couldn’t throw the snow any higher or further, the solution, this a first for me. I bought a snow blower. ( No not because of the snow , Im just getting to be a lazy bugger) Watching the news its quite some thing isn’t , back east their basking in the sun. The Liberals are Crossing the floor in the House of Commons. Out west here the wind is blowing hard, it rains hard, and it snows hard, pretty well a normal winter thus far ( for B.C..) Don’t you think? These are amusing times are they not?

village, WOOD you know it , but Yew are becoming quite Poplar here at the Tyee
ANY SNOW in your neck of the woods? You asked, that’s about where its at, up to my neck, ( little woody can’t be left out LONG, too cold ) I couldn’t throw the snow any higher or further, the solution, this a first for me. I bought a snow blower. ( No not because of the snow , Im just getting to be a lazy bugger) Watching the news its quite some thing isn’t , back east their basking in the sun. The Liberals are Crossing the floor in the House of Commons. Out west here the wind is blowing hard, it rains hard, and it snows hard, pretty well a normal winter thus far ( for B.C..) Don’t you think? These are amusing times are they not?

G West, Ill check the Ambrose thread. I wonder why the bold high liner went hay wire on me on the other thread, oh well no big deal.
Whats this you say,(I just had lunch with a number of guys in the construction industry) Hanging with the grunts now are you, had enough of the upper crust bunch have ya,

G West:

You shouldn't say(and start with):

" Obviously I disagree....."

First of all, (i) why is it obvious ??? and (ii) it seems thou art confessing to a closed mind while often claiming/implying to have the opposite ?

However, did YOU yourself attend the "Body Worlds 3" exhibit at Science World ...that is not clear to me.

I brought that(my attendance) into the discussion early, and reflected on the exhibit after your initial post and ALSO after I saw the link you provided . The Science World exhibit had a VIDEO at the end which showed Von Hagen's plastination lab in action ...with Caucasian crews.

As I alluded to earlier, many of the exhibits were donors via legal consent...and the further to this was that many died of what may be deemed more natural causes as opposed to say executed Chinese prisoners. I didn't observe any exhibits of what may be deemed massive trauma on any of them , ie no bullets or say vehicular etc. accidents.

Perhaps the competitors to the original exhibitor Von Hagen may be using dubious means to acquire original specimens...but I don't presume there is any evidence of that at what I myself saw. I can't go on "guessing" what is "maybe" going on ELSEWHERE.

I am sure there are all sorts of Gov't regulations to go through so the enterpise doesn't end up an illegal body dump...which leads to the side question if the plastination process corrupts and/all of the individuals' own DNA ?

Lord knows , and especially in good ol' BC , that if there was ANY hint of unscrupulous exhibits , that there would be many a protest outside the doors...BUT the only thing I actually saw regarding "a mob" was people trying to get into what apparently will break Science World attendance records.

Not saying China is a perfect country, but in its transition from a Communist(and Non -NDP) country these sorts of things which you allude to may inevitably happen. However, just because there may be exposes' in some facets of the transition one still shouldn't tar them ALL with the same brush, to me that's bias and stereotyping. Von Hagens' Chinese facility did not seem at all like it was
run in some peasant's chicken coop, nor that his Asian staff were poorly skilled either.

"Highly suspect" is a relative term and does not equal facts and evidence, but simply purely extrapolated rumour and conjecture.

Did you actually read the piece from the New York Times?

If you think the current capitalistic oligarchy 'governing' China cares a fig for things like rules and copyright, let alone the idea that people - let alone prisoners - might actually have some 'human rights' then; as I said before, I'm waiting for your bid on the Burrard Street Bridge. Tenders go up for the Georgia Viaduct next week. Certified cheque is fine - but only from Canadian banks.

In addition, that point about BC and 'ethics'.

Where did you say you're from?

Perhaps you noticed the photo with the Times article showed a number of skulls which had been dissected horizontally. I take it you understand the implication relative to the evidence of fatal scull fractures.

About a year ago - again, I can find the information from my files if you don't believe me - there was a major scandal in the North Eastern United States (not China) about the uses put by certain 'medical authorities' to the remains of a certain worthy's body. A man a worldly fellow like you would have known when he wore his own cocoon of flesh as the Masterpiece Theatre presenter and long-time Guardian journalist Alistair Cooke.
And his mortal remains were far from the only ones put to criminal purpose.

Why don't they include an epolog by each of these poor souls of how they died?
Now back to the blog
I'd say that Kitimat should be the Flagship town of the People's Peace Movement!
Kitimat just showed the rest of US that WE as a movement together can take on these Alcan't etal greedy corrupt corporations and Win!
I'll/WE be sending the mayor and brave citizens of Kitimat a letter of support as they are not alone in taking on gordo and his cowardly stooges selling US British Columbians out.
MY grandchildren will remember this turning point in their history!

G West:

If you choose to look into any nook and cranny you will observe and locate dirt.

Who is arguing that a country as large as China (or as small as Monaco ) is not going to have corruption albeit of varying degrees ?

Von Hagen was the pioneer for this sort of exhibit and set the benchmark/standard. I don't think he is about to affect the credibility of his work and Body Worlds exhibit with a major political/politically incorrect human - rights based screw-up.

Just like you G West,...you have your own high standards(?) and may inspire knock-offs(??) and go on tour(???)

PS Keep off the Georgia Viaduct and the Burrard Bridges. I already own them...currently working on a P3 to build one to Vancouver Island and will charge tolls in U.S funds. Seems the Island is into "one- way preaching" Exports and not into an FTA of reality Imports.

ALSO, I am still thinking about how one can identify " Lefties " in the Body Worlds exhibit, as Woody was musing over.

Any one who goes to these grotesque displays of what these poor souls went through should be Ashamed!
What next live exhibits of people being tortured?
I'd say that Kitimat should be the Flagship town of the People's Peace Movement!
Kitimat just showed the rest of US that WE as a movement together can take on these Alcan't etal greedy corrupt corporations and Win!
I'll/WE be sending the mayor and brave citizens of Kitimat a letter of support as they are not alone in taking on gordo and his cowardly stooges selling US out.
MY grandchildren will remember this turning point in their history!
A Real News media
http://www.iwtnews.com/home

Heard a blip on the communist broad net-worth this morning where Dee-on stated the reason The Liar-berals never reached their KYOTO target was due lack of co-operation by the oil sands producers, which says to me, if the Liarblals get in, one of two things or possibly both will happen. A new national energy program and or high carbon tax, which we the consumers will have to pay, the added cost being tacked at the gas at the pumps, or on your oil bill which of course is from the oil company, by the use of this strategy the Liar-berals slime bags hands look clean, as they will down load their dirty work once again.

All the hype and bullsh!t because GHC ARE THOUGHT TO BE THE LEADING CAUSE OF THE GLOBAL WARMING PHENOMENA. In others words someone is guessing.

Nope, Woody, you've got it wrong - not least because you've accepted the view of someone writing in the mainstream media.

The problem with that analysis, woodrow, is that the environmental damage from greenhouse gases is not a provable scientific phenomenon at this stage of our knowledge. Moreover, that's the problem. If we don't get busy and do something about what we are doing to the environment - and there is no question we are doing something - the potential for ‘ever’ recovering and moving back to some kind of normal - will be lost.

Just like when you take one of your children to your family doctor with a sore throat and an ear ache on a Friday afternoon. The doc., if he's a good one, will want to take a throat swab, have it cultured to determine what's up with the sore throat. - Is it streptococcus bacillus for example? Which will need to be treated with a prescribed antibiotic; and which, if you don’t have it available for the weekend (because the test results won’t be available till Monday) will make your child’s and your family’s next 2 days a living hell.
In fact, it may well be that your kid will suffer some serious damage – including the possibility of permanent hearing loss.

So the doctor writes a script for Bactrim or some other appropriate antibiotic and sends you off to the pharmacy.

That’s the only sensible way to look at the damage we’re doing to the environment – we don’t know exactly what the cause is, but we can now see clearly the possibility that doing nothing may well be fatal.

That bit about the greenhouse gases coming from Alberta though, that is correct Woodrow – one-third of all Canada’s greenhouse gases (and the most from any province by a huge margin) come from Ralph’s kingdom and the vast majority of those are related to the oil industry. So, while you might not like Dion’s explanation (excuse) it is probably not very far off the mark. A close look at pee wee’s anemic clean air act and the miniscule impact it has on the oil and gas industry will probably get you thinking that Alberta, Saskatchewan and BC energy production is being treated very circumspectly too so it wasn’t just the Liberals who’ve had problems addressing this important issue.

Westerly I had a rebuttal for you, but, do to my having to pull snow from one my sheds roofs today, than having to shovel the wet sh!t , Im just to wiped to rebut you. Yeah, yeah, I know, tell some one who gives a rats ass about how tired and sore I am, any how, Im just to wiped to straighten you out tonight, and this probably isn’t the worse of it , I just know when I go to bed , the wife knowing how tired and sore I am, will ask me if I care for a “little bit” tonight, of course me being so tired and sore, Ill have to decline. Then in a couple days when little woody is rested ,rejuvenated , Ill bring up the subject, of course the old I offered it to you the other night, and Im just to tired right now story will be used. Then poor little woody, will more than likely have to wait a couple of weeks, before he’s fed again. Good night all
Obviously you agree with me, as you stated.
[environmental damage from greenhouse gases is not a provable scientific phenomenon]

I thought I wrote due instead of do.I told you my ass was dragging Graf

That's the nature of science my friend. We see only as through a glass darkly. Even so, ignoring the red lights at intersections is a recipe for disaster.

I've a big (well big for me anyway) job to start tomorrow so it'll likely be me draggin' my ass tomorrow night.
G'night - my regards to the missus!
Cheers.

Land of Communications... indeed!

Woodie , thanks for the '' walkabout '' in the forest of lore..

I hope the snow helps you see your way through the ... blizzard of changes .. coming.

Canada .., as you say so well.., is .. ( where East is West these days.. and West is East..)..

Bodes well for our re-alignment of the Compass and our setting as per the FUTURE..., 21st CENTURY ... bound.

I have this theory of a distant CANADA that one day woke up with a sudden realisation that they could actually lose everything that has been built so far. And that GIANTS will be born..looking over the ROCKIES .. to assess the potential damage and risks.., and to eventually come up with a .. compromise and solution to what ails us .. ( as a PEOPLE.. as a NATION ).. you think? .. I wonder ..., ( to use one of your great enticement for a response ).

Thus the political culture of Canada .. turning itself...on it's head.. and the next ELECTION will clearly set a framework and a blueprint ..., on how as A PEOPLE... we will make it together..

Thus.., your worries as to how your missus treats you these days.., will be nothing .. ONCE SHE REALISES THAT YOU ARE ABANDONING YOUR BIRTHRIGHT.., or so it seems, at times...., when I attempt to get beyond the bantering and the ''to and fro''.., ( debating .., rebuttals and all ).., for the greater amusement of the READERS?...
I wonder ..., you think?

Village.

Maestro.., don't give up the ship* There's still bodies out at sea..,
though many are adrift and threading water.., the SHIP CANADA is still afloat and picking up those who found themselves.. - or rather lost themselves.. - out at SEA.. , needing really but a lifesaver, to get out of the predicament they got themselves in*..

Speaking of which.., the very idea of MIND TO MIND exchanges.., ( from see to see ,to see ( for lack of a better metaphor )... or in the LAND OF THE ALPHABET parlance.., we are stuck... '' spinning our wheels in the mud..'' as you so well described this kind of .., going round and round and round . (AGAIN ! )...

Thus.. , Neil Young had it down pat.., in that IF YOU WANT TO COME AROUND.., FIND SOMEONE THAT'S TURNING .., is a wise suggestion to anyone that feels frustrated .., by either having been side tracked ..or simply ignored*., the idea being that creative minds can always.., climb over whichever obstacles are placed in it's way*..

The side bar .., of the EXHIBIT at the SCIENCE CENTRE.. as a case in point.., having managed to become the .., detour at first then the destination, in these discussions*.., ( fascinating development ), when one looks at this objectively.

I would like to pick it up where we left it . In that you were thinking that .. .the PROVINCE NATIONS .. in the making .., were somehow going to reach some kind of critical mass.., ( you really believe this ? ).. and that these entities*.., would become defacto..
WHAT?..

There was a book.., once upon a time, written by an American ..that foresaw..the FIVE NATIONS OF AMERICA..*.., his name escapes me.. but the title.. is what it is.

The Author looked down the crystal ball of time itself.. and came up with five distinct regions that had a common ground*.. ( meaning he saw .. these territories.., as with the BREAD BASKET REGION of NORTH AMERICA.. ) etc..A TERRITORY HE DESCRIBED AS ONE.. taking in the PLAINS of UNITED STATES..and THE PRAIRIE PROVINCES..,they together..,- so the author would have it,- were in synchronicity... and would one day..simply gravitate to each other and form.. one of the FIVE NATIONS OF NORTH AMERICA..

I believe CASCADIA was another of his.. five nations , vision, which took in.. all of what we think of .. as the WEST COAST of the PACIFIC.., thus , having this Province , simply being part of.. that much larger entity.., including , the states of Washington, Oregon , and California.., A TOTALLY DIFFERENT COUNTRY would ( hey WOODIE ).. this one's for you , bring about a whole new generation of people who would gladly abandon their ''birthright '' , to attempt in a much larger territory.., to attain heights , to attain .., more , and quicker?.. ( happiness? , well being ?.., history? , memories ? , you get the idea.. surely ).

This BOOK speaks of another kind of 21st CENTURY. And my thoughts are.., '' I wonder how the readers and contributors of this post feel.., as to this kind of outcome*.. ( when you factor in the INCOME , it might very well be.. very alluring to many )... HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THIS ?

Does the thought of CANADA simply not existing anymore appeal to you ? and IF NOT , WHY NOT?

Take Care,
Village