I wouldn't say it's that clear - the question turns on whether a second resolution was needed. That was argued about intensely at the time, with legal opinions on both sides.

I also find the comparison of the Nazi regime with present day America to be a little silly. I'll agree they've pushed the envelope further than any liberal democracy should, but it's pure fantasy to compare them with a regime that used Death Camps to incinerate millions of perceived 'enemies' of the regime.

In any case, arresting a head of government (or state) for bad policies accomplished within existing legal frameworks is dubious. It calls into question the very premise of the nation state and of democracy. Remember: Bush was elected twice (the first one is arguable, but he still got more of the vote than many sitting parliamentary governments do).

Also, who's going to arrest them? There is a fundamental question of power here. Liberal internationalism and its institutions are in large part dependent on the Pax Americana.

Interesting article though - I liked it.

War Criminals only occur on the losing side..............

Bush and all the other neocons ought to be prosecuted. And while that is happening Harper should be charged with treason.

I would have preferred Will Bush Be Prosecuted for War Crimes?

Though not comparable to the nazi Holocaust, the "shock-and-awe" bombing of Iraq was no small potatoes. And the total toll of that contrived and illegal war against Iraq, in dead, injured and destruction of property, is still being tallied.

Coulda', woulda', shoulda'

words that will be used over and over again whenever historians refer to this Commander in Chimp President Clueless George.

The US populace was skeptical of dubya while the first campaign was in progress, but they were assured that 'all the presidents men' would guide him down the correct path that the US should follow. The US electorate could have stopped him then, but they trusted such advisors as Colin Powell, that were to be 'close' to the president.

Now the better advisors are gone, discredited, or not interested in association with the criminal direction of this administration and are doing all they can to distance themselves from it.

Better that more officers like First Lt. Ehren Watada start showing their leadership qualities and point out that the emperor has no clothes and that the ladder (of success) is on the wrong wall...

While I agree that a thoroughgoing Nazi analogy may be beyond the pale, I think one has to acknowledge that the German comparison, as long as it is restricted to the period 1933-39 (think of the Luftwaffe's role in Spain for example)and the restricted civil rights of Jews and others in Germany prior to the implementation of the 'final solution' is not as far fetched as you'd suggest, nightbloom.

Then, as now, most of the rest of the world sat still and permitted Hitler and his elected government (since you also brought up Bush's 'election') to behave more or less with impunity.

I think murdock is spot on, but the responsibility is as much ours as it is the Americans. We are the ones looking the other way and doing the enabling - just as we did in the 1930s.

After the Mi Lai massacre in Vietnam, a famonus news anchor asked a German General if any sort of international tribunal should take place. his answer was

The problem with the USA is that they are a hyper power and as such they can do as they please.

Their society is based on pure myth, as a small percentage of 1770's terrorists, well supplied with arms from france, wrestled control of the 13 Southern colonies from Britian. Note: The Northern colonies resisted and in 1812 resisted again and defeated the US Invaders. Britain won, for if Britain lost we would be now part of the USA! No mention of the War of 1812, except for the defeat ar New Orleans, which happened 3 weeks after a peace treaty was signed!

American education is based on myth and now more frightening, a scary fundemenatlist religious right (just as scarry Islamic fundementalists) is now gaining hold og the USA. Truely these religious nutbars are gaining hold in the highest offices of Govenment and the military. The are so preverting 'Western values' to a simplistic "you are not Christian, but enemies of Christ and you will be destroyed!"

It is going to get worse, a lot worse, until the entire world shuns them. But not Haper and his lot, as they are goose-stepping to bush's tune and dragging the good name of Canada into the nuch and foulness that America has become.

The end of days? It very well may be for the American Empire!

talkingpointsmemo.com/docs/conyers-report/?resultpage=1&.

The bell tolls for thee,
murderin', lyin', dubbleyee!!!

p.s.-Viva Fidel!

And that is the key, no doubt. In order to do so, it will be necessary that the US Empire be brought to its knees, its economy and army broken.

Then maybe we shall see another variant of "Victor's Justice" than that which has prevailed since the end of WW2.

Bring it on!

Indeed, Viva Fidel! Get well soon and continue the fight!

I have my differences with his "Communist System", but which it is the Cuban's business to deal with nonetheles-, but this guy does have my respect, and they have "endured" against the predations of The Evil Empire, and created their own "self-reliant" society. Which this sorry ass country could learn a thing or two from in that department, if it can ever get up off its knees before the alter of the US Empire. :-)

Just in case someone was curious what the American version of the 'final solution' might include I thought I would drop this into the discussion:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/03/02/ivins.competence/index.html

Bush likely guilty of crimes against humanity?

Sure, but so was Reagan, Nixon (and his
evil Sccreatary of State, Kissinger), and probably a long chain of her US president
who cheered democracy at home, while supporting brutality elsewhere,in the service of building American power, at what ever human cost.

(See the long history of US activity in Latin America of supporting death squads and dictators).

#%*% sloppy typing...typo should read:
"probably a long chain of other US presidents".

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2006/08/02/cronin/

interesting article on this subject and speculation about what Bush may be doing about putting on a legal asbestos suit.

You have to watch an ad to read the piece

Could, maybe, will, not a chance. The US of A as long as they are considered top dog in the world has, and will contiue to do what they want. If you are best friends the same rules may or may not apply as well. The Israeli government is killing kids and women daily and since Goerge doest'n tell their apprentice to cease and desist it will coninue. Mind you now that China, the evil communist outfit wons uch fo the US debt, maybe they will rein George or his replacement in. But with China's and Ireals history of human rights that isn't likely soon. One ealier poster saids. You don't put the winners on trail. Sad but true. The Massacere in Mi Lia was seen by a concientious helicopter pilot to offered to shoot the gang doing the killing if they didn't stop. Fire power wins every time

Grumpy has a right track, just not a long enough time horizon...

Kind of like the way the 'city-state' known as ROME had become by 54 bce.

This is the basis for thier 'extending' the 'revolution' elsewhere. There is a real fear that should other nations actually be allowed to 'self-actualize' then some real competition in the nation-building mindset of the current whitehouse admin might actually come into being.

Competition in this arena (global power exercise) is something that they cannot tolerate, in this sense they are behaving like a bloated monopoly (and we all remember how much we liked to smash the monopolies of the leading player in that game right?).

Think of the change less as religiously based and more akin to the sort of take over of the Roman Empire in its last days. Just after the capitol had been overrun by the visigoths, the 'emperor' was given a pension and sent off to retirement in Revenna. The victorious visigoth, offered to 'manage' the western empire in the name of the eastern emperor in Constantinople, thus to the mind of the average 'roman' the empire was still in existance. Point of fact the inner workings of power and the leadership of the legions had long since passed into the hands of what would be later called 'barbarians'. The final nail came at the hands of Odoacer and his becoming protector if the city in 459 ce.

Just as those historical families took over the Republic by controlling the important resources and just as the empire was snagged by the barbarians, so now too we are seeing an republic become an empire and the 'neuveau-barbarians' (with such little names like CIA, NSA, DEA) have done their best to control the levers of power today.

Look less to the church and more at places like Langley or the bowels of the NSA...

Yes, it will likely get worse before it gets any better, but to blame Harper for Canadas' situation is nuts. We here in Canada are as unto the US as Gaul was unto Rome, just a source of raw materials and manpower.

No, not for the American Empire, only for the Republic. This is the dawn of the empire, or perhaps the pre-dawn twilight - kind of like the time of Sulla.

Imagine if you will the 'New Pearl Harbour' was all a manipulation ('reopen911')! Talk about war crimes! Inventing a reason to justify (but not legally as suggested by the article), the attack and invasion of Afganistan and Iraq. Will Canadians still support the 'mission' in Afganistan when the new Afghani government still limits women's rights? Can we force another state/cultural principles to change, or adopt our principles?

I rented 'V' (vendetta) last night. I liked the movie. What struck me was the theme of the movie seemed to parallel what has been and is happening in the United States, and perhaps (just taking baby steps) in Canada. Nothing matters except security, and in the mean time the rulers get rich (Cheney, Rumsfeld, Bush and so on).

I believe in the future the 'emerging energy superpower' will face terrorist attacks (to cripple U.S. oil/gas supply); and therefore increased loss of freedoms and increased spending on security and the military, or the U.S. will pre-emptively do it for us!

"Could Bush Be Prosecuted for War Crimes?"

Only if they are as soundly defeated militarily as Germany and Japan were after WW2. Since this isn't likely to happen anytime soon, there will be no prosecution.

I think a lot of us here agree Bush could (in theory) and should(in fact) be prosecuted, and that it's not gonna happen.

Further evidence of an unfair Universe!

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/03...ence/index.html

ModernSerf raises the question here that I have been asking myself for months now: What are those camps really for??

murdock, I think U quite undestand the nature of imperial power in the so called post-modern world: the control is informal, as opposed to the formal contol whitnessed in colonial times.

Frankly, the American Republic was stillborn during the American Revolution/Insugency. Imperial America has just retained the republican facad, just as Julius Caesar maintained the existance of a senate.

The best police state is the one that the public doesn't know it's living in.

sorry, wish we could edit.

it's supposed to be "U don't quite understand the nature"

Interesting note on the Pearl Harbour attack, for all the hype and hopla, the American capital ships lost were older 'dreadnuaght' types and not 'super dreadnaughts'. The battleships lost, were inferrior to what the Japanese could muster. The ships that really mattered were the aircraft carriers and they were away from Pearl. Infact, from 1940 on, the aircraft carriers never lingered long at Pearl Harbour and only stayed long enough to refuel and rearm.

The British have always believed that this was done on purpose to not only tempt the japanese to attack, but ris themselves of obsolete vessels > can't refit them sir, they are at the bottom.

The result of Pearl Harbour was two fold:

1) The surprise attack (the Brits were warning the Americans of an air attack since their spectacular success against the italian fleet at Taranto) not only solidified public opinion for total war, it freed gaovenment money to build a huge military infrastructue, which exists today.

2) The Americans quickly rebuilt their naval fleets, which would be decided neccassary for world domination.

The upshot of all this is that, since WW 2 the Americans have had a strangle hold on the 'Western World" to kow-tow to what they want. Trouble was/is the Americans had no history in the middle east and dictated to the Brits, French, and the UN how palistine was to be remade into Isreal etc. A bunch of goat herders wasn't in the mix. Today those goat herders are now palastinians without a homeland because their homeland was taken to form Isreal.

The rest is history and not the stuff from Warner Brothers!

You're on a roll, Grumpy. Good stuff as the only comment in todays start thread as well.

For sure, their treachery knows no limits.

The war in Iraq is just the last in a series of wars to secure oil that began at the end of the 19th century. Robert Newman offers an illuminating and amusing one man play/keynote speech that deserves to be watched.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7374585792978336967

Grumpy, it would be more accurate to say that part of the Palastinian homeland was taken to FORM Isreal (and the remainder was taken BY Isreal).

Sorry, Grumpy, your Pearl Harbor conspiracy theory doesn't quite wash. If those battleships were so danm obsolete, why were most of them refloated, repaired, and put back into service?

And the US supposedly dictated the terms of the formation of Israel? I always thought it was the British who ran Palestine, and the British who ran Iraq, and the British who ran Egypt, just to bring up a few real success stories of nation building.

The Japanese attack America, the Hizbollah attack Israel.
Are these people idiots ?
Don't screw with with either unless you have a plan for a successful outcome.
Why should they allow themselves to be hit first ? hit first ? hit first ?
Whine all you want whiners, you have no credibility.
And the original premise of this thread is wishful thinking indeed.
Float away, lightweight feathers.

Thanks for the link, Mink. Good stuff!

Yeah.....the Japanese attack America after FDR cuts off Japan's sources of oil, and the country begins strangling.

And Israel cuts off water to the West Bank, diverts Golan Heights water, and is working on capturing Lebanon's copious water sources..........

There ain't no good guys in this. There's only the people with the biggest club......and there is some debate over whether Israel can come up with the biggest club this time around.

Don't worry Rick W, Israel has the bigger stick, and the Arabs are happy to see them use it against the Persians.
You don't here The Arab League squawking.
They are more than happy to see the Persians get it up the ....

Maybe you should send that advice to Bush/Cheney/Perle/Rumsfeld/Bolton/Capitalist.

gkam; good point, very good point.
You can't be feminized into pacificrim. That's the problem we in the West have. We can't really kick these guys butt's.
We need to be PC about it.
They don't.
They are far from feminized. They are mean. We need to be mean to defeat them.
It's like the poor cops, they are supposed to play by the rules, while organised crime can do whatever they want.
Israel has realised that they can't afford such luxuries as we have in the West. They can't afford to placate everybody in town.
So, there might be a plan. I know there is a plan. Whether it works is another thing.
But, I think, that if you see Israel step up the defense a couple of notches, that will be good thing.

IAMC

Is see you finally lost it altogether: nothing left but raving lunacy - the incredible lightness of being - have another drink.

George kinda looks like Cool Hand Luke in the picture above. It's flattering to look like Paul Newman. Jewish??

Actually, IAMC, George looks a lot more like a middle aged Norman Mailer and absolutely nothing like Paul Newman.

'What we have here is failure to communicate.'

Don't suppose you're familiar with Norman Mailer though.

Yes, Norman Mailer, a New York journalist and author. Jewish ?

Do you watch the news? Its Lebanon being attacked. Hezbollah is not made up of "Persians".

Since when does the west play by the rules. Israel wins every war in the Middle East due to massive firepower and being meaner than those around them. Killing kids is being PC? Its practically become an Israeli national sport as they cheer the bombing of defenceless people.

Yes, Mailer is a secular Jew. Not sure why it would make a difference to you

He made his reputation with a book called The Naked and the Dead about his fictionalized WWII experiences in the Pacific.

He was an important member of many protests against the war in Vietnam and was arrested outside the Pentagon. His memoir of that era is called Armies of the Night.

He has numerous children and has been married at least 7 times - perhaps more. He also founded the Village Voice and ran unsuccessfully for mayor of New York city.

His most recent book is a first-person account of Jesus's life called The Gospel According to the Son.

As I read this article I found myself becoming very impatient with its author.
Surely everyone realizes that the world is no longer governed by politics - it is governed by commerce.
In the middle east Iraq became a stumbling block to oil supply and possible interruption of that supply.
So the U.S. is guilty of war crimes? As the saying goes... "so sue me!!"
Besides, Bush and Cheney are heavily influenced by family fortunes and closest friends of the oil industry.

I have my differences with his "Communist System", but which it is the Cuban's business to deal with nonetheles-, but this guy does have my respect, and they have "endured" against the predations of The Evil Empire, and created their own "self-reliant" society.

Cuba has survived under Castro despite the U.S. efforts to the contrary.
I've been to Cuba and talked to some of its citizens but didn't get much more than the official line. Cubans cannot own land or homes. Building is severely restricted. The roads are in desperate need of repair. New cars (European and Japanese) are non-existent except for society VIPs (doctors, government officials etc) in fact, most vehicles are American 1950 retreads in which gasoline motors have been replaced by European diesels.
Illiteracy is non-existent however readers are limited to government propoganda and books of government choosing.
Those students who achieve exceptional grades are admitted to the few rundown universities available - and are channeled into jobs conducive with the state's requirements.
There is very little crime in Cuba and exceptional athletes have their privileges.
All of this is a replica of the Soviet Union days - only worse - in my opinion.
Cuba is the last truly communist society which is a questionable legacy for Fidel.

Fundamentally, this is a problem when "the people" are as widely disengaged from politics as they are-, everywhere. Folks really do need to make it their business to BE THE POLITICS, or live with this result. When they just want to "live their lives" in isolation, the bullies are left to run everyting unchallenged, and "the vote" is about as useful as going to the church and praying to the lord.

I don't agree with you entirely here, but you are right in that there "ain't no good guys here". Period. Universally.

(Though I have some modicum of grudging respect for Hizbullah and Hamas, just not all the religious bullshit. At least they've had enough and aren't going to take it anymore, without putting up a fight. And there actions are where the obsessively flapping or silent mouth is on most folks.)

We're in a period of history where virtually everyone is culpable, whether by action or more often, inaction, in enabling these ruling class fuks of certainly very many lands.

I don't know where or how it changes, but there clearly isn't enough motivating, widespread pain yet-, where it needs to be. Masses of ordinary citizens need to be brought into motion, and The Empire and The Zionists, at least, need to lose. And that's as a minimum. (Here, we also have to big time defeat a collaborationist regime and economic elite, by fair means or foul.)

That's about all I'm sure of though. And democracy, democracy, democracy , as something which lives and functions in ALL spheres of social and economic life everyday, needs to be THE watchword-, as opposed to the current so-called "electoral system", which is really an "electoral dictatorship system".

"That's about all I'm sure of though. And democracy, democracy, democracy , as something which lives and functions in ALL spheres of social and economic life everyday, needs to be THE watchword-, as opposed to the current so-called "electoral system", which is really an "electoral dictatorship system". "

EXACTLY! And this is precisely the weakness of the neocons - they blather endlessly about democracy, but do everything to undermine it as was laid out by their Godfather Samuel Huntington in the repoert to the Trilateral Commission in 1976.

Jester Jogger & Coyote: It does not surprise me that you both would want Fidel to get better. Personally, I hope he dies a quick and very painful death. You both should talk with my brother in laws new sister in law who has lived there all of her life and loathes the man and all he stands for. Both of you regularly take an anti government line on this site, moreso now that we have a semi right wing one. Were you to take the same anti government line in Cuba you would end up in jail if not summarily exceuted for some of the comments I have seen here about Harper. But then you progressives don't have much left anymore other than insults now that all of your old, communist/socialist shibboleths have been found wanting.

CBC is reporting four Canadian soldiers killed fighting for the USA today, and ten wounded in Afghanistan.

Harper says he still believes in the mission-, of fighting for the US Empire cause. Useless sack of traitorous flesh that he is.

And I don't care a twaddle what these soldiers themselves think about "the mission". No one is questioning their goddamned bravery. They jsut aren't the ones who should get to decide what our civil society policy should be. And we must not allow them to be used as the tail that wags the dog.

Bring them home to safety and their families, NOW. We need them here to prepare the defence of Canada from the Amerikans, not for the Amerikans.

Speedy recovery, Fidel.

oilbertan
Fidel will pass from the scene in due course... but I find your anger against a man who has managed to survive (and turn a third-world country into something other than the criminal outpost of America it was until 1959) despite the hate and propaganda, not to mention assassination and invasion attempts of the most powerful country in the world, pretty strange. Compared with Colombia and the Dominican Republic, not to mention Haiti and Grenada ( I could name several other US client states in Latin America) it is a veritable paradise . A lot of Albertans love to holiday there as a matter of fact.

Relying on the testimony of your brother in law's new sister in law seems a little tendentious to me. You might want to talk to some of the Sherritt executives who've been working with the Cubans for ages now to actually help the people in that country and not subvert them---and make a tidy profit into the bargain, or, perhaps to some of the oil company executives who are lining up to by exploration rights off the Cuban coast.

Give the Cubans a fair shake and a decent trade relationship with the US - which they gave to Communist China decades ago - and you'd be singing a different tune my friend. Circumstances alter cases. When Castro came to New York after he'd ousted Batista in 1959 he wasn't even a communist - the US shoved him into Moscow's arms and if you knew anything about history you'd know that too.

I'll second Coyote's sentiment; and I'll bet the vast majority of real Cubans (not the ersatz variety from Miami) are doing so as well.

Bang on, GWest. Save this oilbertan dingbats spend their time trying to ignore history, in favour of rationalizing (lying) away their own.

Cuba is a Cuban problem to deal with. And if there are problems with the social model of Castro and Company, and I think there is, it is up to Cubans themselves to work out how to change and evolve it. And left uninterferred with, and unthreatened, they will in due course.

A bigger problem for us is how to deal with the US Wannabe Oilbertans, and their Yankee serving Neoconazi friends everywhere "in country."

Ditto Afghanistan. Ditto Canada.

Coyote: I notice that you did not comment on my point that in Cuba, you would be in jail if not dead for your anti government diatribes. Try moving to Cuba and calling Fidel or Raoul or any of the other commie mucky mucks a traitor and see where it gets you. Probably why you are stil living here despite how horrible our government is according to you.

G West: Good to hear from you again. One thing I do have some knowledge of is history. As to your contention that Fidel was not a communist when he went to the UN in 1959, that has since been proven to be more NY Times fiction similar to the idiot (Duranty?) that wrote for the times about Russia when Grampa Joe was killing millions.
As for Albertans loving to holiday in Cuba, so what? I personally would not do so as the main beneficiaries would be Fidel and his band of murderers.
As for Sherrit, that is why my brother in law's brother (actually both of his brothers) are in Cuba on a regular basis, they work for Sherrit. The fact that he married a Cuban national gave him insights that normal tourists never get. While I have never been there, I have many friends who have been and have been told more than once of well educated Cuban women, think doctors, lawyers, teachers, scientists that prostitute themselves to vacationing Canadians so that they might enjoy some material luxuries (like soap and shampoo) that are otherwise restricted to the governing elite. Yes, a virtual paradise. BTW, the US did not f*ck up Haiti, that was Fwance's doing.
Coyote's comment that Cuba's problems are for them to solve is disingenuous at best and other wise bulltweet. How do you change a system where one man and one party hold all the power and use that power ruthlessly?
If Fidel is such a great man and just a servant of the Cuban people as he likes to depict (what did he say when he turned power over to his brother the other day, something like he would continue to fight for Cuba or some such crap) then how come he keeps popping up on Forbes list of the world's richest people. Not even Dubya, Cheney or any of the other neocons make that list.

Oilbertan
Try criticizing Stevie boy Harper at a political rally or ask a question that isn't on his list if you're a journalist.

We're a bit less honest here.

Try criticizing a tourist trap in Victoria in the Times Colonist and see what happens (the story is right here at the Tyee - the only place you'll read about it too).

Every government has it's means of thought control. Seems to me you've pretty much bought the koolade too my friend.

As for freedom and the good old us of eh: I guess you've forgotten Elian Gonzales and what happens to the boat people who end up on American shores when they happen to have left Haiti instead of Cuba.

Give me a break!

Oilbertan, good to see you here again - too bad you haven't learned anything in the interim.

As for the Haiti thing, France was certainly involved, as, unfortunately was Canada but the big blame still rests squarely on the US.

You still haven't dealt with the main point: Why does the US deal with China (in fact get about 28% of their operating loan from them and not deal with Cuba? What a bunch of hypocrites. You can't even compare Castro with Mao - it's all just plain bs. And, furthermore, why would I take any lessons from the US anyway - their prosperity is built on 'guest' workers continual war, refinancing, negative savings, over consumption, over-eating and a $5.15/ hour federal minimum wage. Cuba is a paradise comparatively for the 42 million people in the US who have no health insurance.

Come back when you actually have a point.

By the way, what's the story about all the cancers cropping up in the native population that gets water from the Athabasca River?

I'll compare Bush's war crimes with Castro's any day!

As for the article that started this thread, it is pie in the sky bs with more holes in it than a block of swiss cheese.
To me, what happened in the Phillipines 100+ years ago is irrelevant. Different time, different circumstances that no longer exist.
The Hiroshima comment is just plain dumb. People who criticize Truman's decision should answer what it was that they would have done differently given the same set of circumstances and given the fact that a land based invasion would have cost 200,000 American lives, one million plus wounded, not to even touch on the estimated 400,000 people the Japanese were killing each and every month in China, Korea etc. But then facts never get in the way of an assault on the Great Satan do they.
As for Iraq being unprovoked, what about the attemnpted assassination of a former US president? Or the 17 UN resolutions and numerous other actual human rights/war crimes that Saddam committed.
As for Abu Ghraib, the guilty are in jail and with Haditha, where to my knowledge, no one has been formally charged (whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty - oh right does not apply to the USA - but the author highlights the US' refusal to take part in ICC - any wonder why?).
Further, my reading of the Geneva Conventions is quite clear, you do not qualify as a POW if you a) don't wear a uniform and b) don't acknowledge and follow the Geneva Conventions and the killers in Gitmo certainly do not qualify.
All in all, this article is a piece of crap and the usual anti american, anti Dubya bs that the left just loves to eat up. Dubya will be retired in 2 1/2 year as will Cheney, Rummy and the Rove monster and if, as I suspect, the current situation turns into an existential struggle, worldwide (pretty close already) agaisnt radical Islam, then Dubya will be seen in the same light as Sir Winston, the Man of the 21st Century (keep in mind how far out of favour Churchill was when he opposed Chamberlain's continued appeasement of Hitler).
It is America's exceptionalism that sets it apart from the rest of the world and while they are by no means perfect, they are the good guys simply because they do hold their people to a higher standard and punish those that do not measure up as witness Wm Calley, Lindie Englund et al. Contrast that with Fwance where the only thing keeping Chriac (or is it Osirak?) out of jail is some stupid law that says that he cannot be charged while he is in the Elyese. I would call that unexceptionalism!

oilbertan:

Ralph (King) why not wait until you are a 'fellow' at the Fraser Institute before you start spouting off!

Incidentally, in Canada's trade with Cuba, it (Canada) has a helluva time trying to get its money because we extend credit to Cuba.

Whereas, when the U.S. trades with Cuba, (and you'd be surprised at the volume) it does so on a C.O.D. basis.

The result is - the U.S. gets paid before we do - and sometimes we don't get our money at all.

GWest: Well first of all, China is half a world away and at this point not a threat to the US. You chided me about lacking in history but it was the sainted Fidel that almost caused WW III back in 62 from 90 miles off the Florida coast.
Personally, I agree with your point on dealing with China but then no one asked me for my opinion when PET decided to recognize China. However if the Americans are hypocrites for their dealings, being a free country vs China's communist dictatorship that has taken an estimated 100 million innocent lives, then how about Canada which has recognized and dealt with China for much longer?
As has been pointed out by people more intelligent than I, while the US minimum wage is $5/hr, there are not too many people making that wage and if memory serves correct the average wage is more than double that in the US, with statistical full employemt (ie: <5%). As well, like Canada, everyone in the US has access to what is basically a free education but the left's continual "free lunch" mentality is so ingrained in North American life that many don't bother getting an education and then whine when they can't get a decent job. As well, look at the protests in Fwance over trying to take away guaranteed jobs for life. But then we don't have to be personally responsible in the socialist utopia as government will look after everything for us. Similarily, your comment about guest workers is also off the mark. Again, as someone smarter than me pointed out recently, these jobs used to be done by Americans, mainly blacks. But they no longer do these jobs because they can live off welfare and make virtually the same money so why even bother. I am old enough to remember the stories of my maternal grandfather and others about the dirty 30's and hopping trains in search of work. Don't have to do that now, just look to government. This is somehow better, more enlightened? How can one feel good about themselves when they have no education, no job and no future. I would like to see you blame that one on Dubya.

GWest: I know for sure that were I to criticize Harper, I would not lose my job and end up in jail as I would in Cuba. As for our journalists and their poor hurt feelings, who cares. Most opinion polls I have seen put their ratings well below even Dubya's low numbers so I don't think too many people care about that one. That is one thing that never ceases to amaze me about you progressives; your disdain for the average Canadian/American voter and their ability to see through the bs and bias that regularly comes from the media and our ruling elites.
As for young Elian, I do not believe for one minute that the hated Dubya nor the reviled John Ashcroft would have done what the sainted Wm Jefferson and Ms Reno did which was unforgiveable and in all likelihood cost Al Bore the 2000 election. While I am at it, somewhere above Murdock commented about Dubya's first election and how people thought Colin Powell et al would ensure he didn't screw things up yet he neglects that Dubya won again in 2004 and by a plurality of 3MM (unless of course you buy the barking moonbat Diebold theory).
As for your straw man argument about the 42 million Americans without medical coverage, again so what. It is not as if these people do not get looked after when they are in need. In fact even the guest workers you refer to get top notch care even though they are not even citizens. As I understand the American system, many people, especially the younger ones eschew coverage due to cost/benefit/other priorities. While you could argue that our system is better at least from a standpoint of not having to worry about mortgaging your house if you are in need of major surgery etc, you are still going to have to wait until the system can find a place for you and our wait times are much longer than the Americans. A for the higher cost, it is more than offset by lower taxes thus allowing poeple the choice of buying insurance or spending it on something else.

Oilbertan
Well, to start with, I don't agree that the US had the 'right' to threaten to start the third world war because Soviet missiles were in Cuba. You might want to check the map and you'll notice that Turkey (where the US has its missiles based prior to 1962) is contiguous with the USSR. What's sauce fot the goose is sauce for the gander. I was simply attacking your condemnation of Cuba which is, in my opinion, nonsense. Why not do business with everybody? Trudeau led the way in that respect and I salute him for it.
The situation in Cuba is at least as much a result of US actions as it is Cuba's actions. By the way, I don't think you can make any claims about Castro and communism relative to 1960 because virtually everything written by official sources in the US at the time was still coloured by McCarthyism and just can't be trusted. You might want to look at George Kennan's writings to find out how much crap they made up and lied about at the time. He’s wrote an interesting mea culpa on the subject and, as X, he should know.

As for education and health care, the US certainly hasn't anything to teach Cuba wouldn't you agree. And, I think you'll find Cuban doctors at the forefront of virtually every humanitarian crisis, on the ground, in the last 35 years.

Your ideas about the US and 'guest workers' are just plain bizarre - especially in light of the recent bill introduced down there which would give 'guest workers' landed status after 17 years - whoop te doo! Minimum wage - do you know what restaurant workers are paid in California? Ever wondered why they do everything for you in restaurants there but polish your shoes with their tongues?

Dirty thirties my ass - that's just plain wage slavery. If you like I can point you to dozens of current studies which confirm that the US economy has stagnated as far as upward mobility is concerned - you know better than to post such garbage. And education – we already agreed that Cuba has 100% literacy - and that’s better than either Canada or the US can claim. Cuba would be nowhere nearly as backward today as it is if the Americans weren’t such idiots on the subject. Isolating a country just tends to create more hate and more North Koreas.

By the way, I just drove through Alberta. What unbelievably bad drivers. If you're still running, stay the hell off the side of the road. Have they disabled every turn signal in the province?

Bush seems to feel good about himself as long as he is getting enough to eat, for God's sake.

Oilbertan
You're the one dissing Cuba. America is no paradise. The happiest people in the world come from Denmark, remember. At the present rate the American people will eat themselves into oblivion sometime about 2030. I do think Bush stole the election and I sure as hell don't trust Diebold. As for Harper, he is a complete disaster and we lost another fine bunch of Canadians today for his ego. I'm only heartened by the fact that Canadians seem to be awakening from the stupor they've been in for the last 6 months if recent polls are any indication.

You don't know what you're talking about re health care, period. You need to get out more and stop reading the National Review.

Speaking of four more dead Canadians in Afghanistan today, did you hear the statement Fraser made? What a disaster.

I hope Harper has to wear this like a millstone for the rest of his life.

oilburtans child-like faith in neocon propaganda is so touching it brings tears to my eyes. But the tears are soon replaced by chuckles when he claims to know something about history.Look history and propaganda are not the same. Get it? Here, open your eyes and see what the US corporate state is really like. The list of invasions, coups and terrorist actions asgainst foreign governments:

http://www.zompist.com/latam.html
http://www.alternet.org/audits/39416/

And I suppose the 2.5 million people the US killed in Viet Nam were killed by the US corporate state's kindness.

G West:
"Speaking of four more dead Canadians in Afghanistan today, did you hear the statement Fraser made? What a disaster."

what was the statement?

Oh something along the lines of: 'Despite our loses we've really got the Taliban on the run now and we're really making a difference for ordinary Afghanis.'

G West:

Yeah right!

"'Despite our loses we've really got the Taliban on the run now and we're really making a difference for ordinary Afghanis.'"

Which Afganis? Expatriates?!!!!!

I wonder what he and the PM will say when women are, or continue to be disenfranchised?

They also said on CBC that the mission is going to last until 2009!

Mostly I just don't engage with you because you are such a fuktard. You just lather and froth at the mouth generally, and are not really in search of or up to a conversation of any real substance. It's that depth of a saucer of water thing again, which seems to afflict right wingnut oilbertan, neocan and capitalism types. Back and back we go, over the same retarded ground with y'all Yankee lovers.

But okay, for the benefit of our adoring publics :-), disregarding the fact I just might be feted as a kind of "friend of the revolution" were I there :-), and disregarding that there actually is an "opposition" in Cuba, that is apparently quite vocal on occassion, and stays out of jail so long as they don't betray the country to the US, such as even CNN acknowledges from time to time, often inadvertantly by speaking of it, or alluding to it.

That said, people work on and evolve their own view of democracy. I'm damned sure I would feel cramped and dissatisfied by Cuban "democratic life", I know that. Still the "common people" there fare much better overall, if without what I would consider a satisfactory democratic model. than they did under the gangster Batista, who was Amerika's choice.

But more than that, Canada has its own particular class/sex struggle history which has evolved a certain kind of democracy, to a particular if limited level, for common folks-, mixed with a kind of ruling class encouraged colonial servitude and bending of the knee to Washington. And if we have been talking about nothing else here over time, we have been talking about how "inadequate" and "restrictive" of true democracy to all classes and sexes is this country's own democratic model.

Se we have our own business to be about, without fussing unduly about Cuba's. Nor do we even have to agree with or like everything their state governance does. But that is for them to deal with.

Deep, for an oilbertan conservative, I know.

But Cuba rose up against its colonial gangster "holiday resort" status for US thuggery, and has had a special problem with US Empire interference and invasion in its affairs and upon its sovereign territory. (Bay of Pigs etc.) What we tolerate in this country, for our chicken shitness and having been much bought off, and because we are prepared to accept that interference in our affairs and domination by the US Empire, to here anyway, Cuba was not and, like I say, rose up against.

Such that, as a Canadian "would be" revolutionary :-), currently mostly just talk, I 'fess, I would not want to presume to have the inkling of a fuking clue what the Cuban people and government have had to put up with and endure at the hands of US imperialism and its treachery. Neither are we likely to ever really know, and even you are just so much hot vacuous air, until or unless we are ourselves prepared to stand up to the US Empire, test our own national independence and self-reliance, big time.

We-, you, I and all these others of our fellow countrymen, to here, are yet too chickenshit is the short answer. Still too fat and smug. We have some serious growing up to do yet, as a country, methinks.

You know jackshit about the complexities of ordinary folks lives oilbertan, and it shows.

Just 2 cents worth on Castro. Anyone who has stood up to the worst the American Empire could throw at him and his little island country for 47 years and is still standing - in whatever kind of shape - deserves a tip of my hat anytime. To have managed to do it more or less alone since 1989 is practically miraculous.

Viva Fidel indeed. May he live long and prosper. AS for the fact that Forbes says he's a rich man. I haven't seen Cheney apologize for his wealth, nor Bush either for that matter.

Anyone who thinks America can teach anybody any lessons on morality is smoking waaaay too much dope.

As for oilbertan's claim that Castro was already a Stalinist in 1959, after having read at least a score of books about the Cuban Revolution, plus bios, I think this unlikely, and that it is probably nothing more than a rationalization for one more failed US foreign policy. It has been conveniently forgotten that the Cuban CP was not part of the Revolution, indeed, it had supported Batista! The Revolutionary Movement (26th of July and the Directorate in Havana) was a coalition of populists, independent socialists and anarchists. Of the three main leaders, only Guevara had been a committed Marxist, but a highly unorthodox one, not a Moscow hack. Castro came originally from the populists, and Camillo Cienfuegos was closest to the anarchists. Undoubtedly Castro considered himself some kind of socialist, but a Stalinist? Hardly. The CP finally came around. (opportunistically I'd say) But were not that important until the US moved to destroy the Revolution. The CP controlled most of the unions and had a large bureaucracy. The other parties did not have this. The Associacion Libertaria de Cuba, (anarchists) for example, while controlling a number of important unions, as well as having a daily newspaper, had only about 2000 members. The CP must have had 20 times this. So Castro grabbed on to the CP to keep things going...

Jacks pointed out:

sadly not everyone realizes this, nor if they do are they willing to admit it.

THE FIDEL CASTRO THAT I KNOW

By Gabriel GarcÃ*a Márquez

Source: Brecha (Uruguay, July 28, 2006)

A CubaNews translation. Edited by Walter Lippmann.

His fondness for words. His power of seduction. He hunts for a
problem wherever it is. The impelling force of inspiration is befits
his style. The breadth of his tastes is very well reflected in his
books. He gave up his cigars so as to have the moral authority to
fight smoking. He likes to prepare recipes with a sort of scientific
fervor. He keeps in excellent shape through several hours of daily
exercise and frequent swimming. Invincible patience. Strict
discipline. He's drawn toward the unexpected by the force of his
imagination. Learning to work is as important as learning to rest.

full :http://www.marxmail.org/msg15146.html

Forbes took the total National wealth of Cuba and credited it to Fidel. I think even the Wall Street Journal debunked it..avarice is not one of Fidels vices.

Give this a look if you gave a chance G.

have a chance of course.
:-)

will for sure, btc. cheers. Never believed Fidel was much of a plutocrat -I was just responding to one of the oily ones slurs.

Fidel is a murderer. No better than Sadam.
Why do we have these supporters of ANYTHING ANTI-AMERICAN at any cost, even supporting IRAN, SYRIA and HIZBOLLAH for the pure reason of hating George Bush ?
It's because we tolerate dickheads, that' why.

IAMC
Bush is a murderer. No better than Saddam. He lied about WMD so that he could get others to go along with his criminal plans. As this article claims, he could be tried for war crimes. He should be tried for war crimes, just like Augusto Pinochet.

Why do we tolerate these American supporters like Stephen Harper in this country. Can't they see this man wages illegal and aggressive war against small and largely defenceless countries; he lies and hides the truth and uses his power to force weaker countries and his own citizens to act in ways that work against their own best interests.

Why do we put up with it? Why do the good American people put up with it?

IAMC is a willing dupe of the neoconazis. He parrots every cliche they spew from their propaganda machine. Look at this last idiocy, characteristic of the malaise. People critical of US foreign policy are slandered as being anti-american and supporters of Iran. Listen *******, I am the last person to support those mullahfuckers. You want to see who I support visa vis Eye-ran (as you probably call it aping your degenerate, illiterate masters) Well feast your eyes on this,
http://www.wpiran.org/English/english.htm

Stephen Harper can't simply be classified as an American lapdog, just because he supports Israel.
If that was the case, you would be saying that he is also a lapdog of Arabs.
Because that is the parallel.
I have been trying to explain that there is not a united Islamic Front.
There are Persians, and there are Arabs.
And they hate each other.
The Arabs are saying dick right now.

I think because most people don't know what to do about it. Civil society depends on 'good faith', 'the rule of law', of which one derivitive is that the majority of people in power would be free from corruption. During the last twenty years, like rats, these neo-cons have been gnawing at the legs of our civil society. And, our system has been corrupted. Of course, they are too far gone to realize they too will suffer with the rest of us if they are successful and our society becomes the way they want it to be.

Another reason is that most people are still eking out basic living with some small pleasures. The economy has been falsely propped up for the last five years at least and the money that is being made is from the massive liquidation, redirection and theft of public assets. But, this money is going into a few hands and it is drying up as we post.

Also, the final result of their policies which is a nuclear bomb dropped somewhere in the world causing mass death has yet to happen. Until the depression most of us know is coming, and/or the neo-cons cause horrendous suffering that is so huge it can't be missed,lied away, or blamed on others, people will still take it.

More people are becoming aware of the deception perpetrated on them and so that advantage is dissipating. Honest US citizens are actively trying to maintain unrigged elections for instance.

Really the neo-cons are finished, but they can still cause a lot more suffering for others before they themselves are held accountable.

They have some diabolical plan re what is happening with Israel and Lebanon right now, probably to engage us to a point of no return in WW3 before the November elections.

dirivative

redrivergirl
take a minute and watch the Daily Show if you can - I think it's on again at 12 on CTV - definitely worth a chuckle.

redrivergirl; you only fear American nuclear problems ?
Then do you support Iranian nuclear armament ?
Please don't answer this question. Because your opinion is too biased, it's laughable.
I don't want you in my Army. You are on the side of the bad guys.

Interesting link, anarcho.

And, of course, back at ya IAMC, you pathetically Harperesque apologist for everything Amerikan, "Because your opinion is too biased, it's laughable.'

And as part of that, from the git go, because of that neoconazi Amerikan/Zionist bias of yours, you are incapable of understanding the differentiated and nuanced politics of those of us who support the Arab AND Persian peoples of the Middle East, let alone that many of us are anything but "liberal" lefties.

Power to the people, of Canada and the Middle East!

Non-interference in each other's internal affairs!

Defeat the US Empire, the Zionist, and ALL religious fascists!

GWest: To your comment above that you would compare Bush's crimes to Castro's, I would just say that were Bush in Castro's league then after Bush "stole" the 2000 election, Al Bore, Chappaquidick Ted and most of the others in the Dhimmi Party would have found themselves in jail and there would not have been a 2004 election. Thta is how Fidel would have done it.
Alci: "Stood up to the worst the American Empire could throw at him" ? Please , the Yanks could get rid of him day after tomorrow if they really wanted to. And, if words have any sort of meaning, the worst they could throw at him would be an A bomb.
Coyote: I did read your comments above but sorry they don't make much sense. Better you stick with the insults which is all you and the other reality based progressives have got left. I do not disagree that Fidel did some good things, especially in the areas of education and, to a lesser extent health care but Saddam also did some good things early on in his reign. But, as always, power corrupts and absoulte power corrupts absolutely. This much I do know, Dubya will be back in Crawford at the end of 01-08 while Fidel, if god forbid he is still alive, will be celebrating his 49/50th year in power. Yeah that's a real good system there. And, speaking of depth, do you not think that those well educated Cubans don't understand that they live in a prison where who you know (as in which member of the communist party) counts for more than your education. How much value does the lady doctor put on her education when she has to go prostitute herself at night to fat white Canadain males just so she can have some of what we consider the basics like shampoo and real soap. Yeah, Fidel has done a great job of turning Cuba from a corrupt dictatorship dependent upon the US to a corrupt dictatorship dependent upon Eurabia and Canuckistan. For a person with a good education the knowledge that your education is basically worthless unless you kiss the right butt would constitute cruel and unusual punishment IMHO. Your arrogance and ignorance is showing again.
Anyway, I do hope everyone here has a great longgggggg weekend. I know I will because, unlike those living in Fidel's paradise, I am a free man and can go where I want and do what I want.

Coyote: Just one question. Are you really serious that the world should just sit by and watch the Darfur's, Kosovos, Rwanda's unfold? Even a heartless neocon such as myself has a real problem with that one. I often wonder what it will take for people such as yourself to get your craniums out of your rectums, some jihadi blowing up the sky train? Dirty bomb at 010 Olympics? Someone you love getting their head chopped off? But then, it's all Dubya's and the American Empire's fault isn't it.

Those who are open to glimmers of hope, maybe even a few shafts of light breaking through...might consider the proposition that the conservative movement in the US
is on the decline, partly due to failures of a Republican admin., and that the right is increasingly fractured and divided on a whole range of issues, from Iraq, to Lebanon, Bush in general, fiscal irresponsibility, to minimum wage, tax cuts for the very rich, even stem cell research.
The End of the Right? http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/03/AR2006080301259.html
...And some like to claim the Dems are in disarray!

This also bodes ill for the Harpotives here. Harper's lashed himelf to the mast of a sinking ship, and Canadians are increasingly unhappy about it. Recent polls reveal Canadians are now seeing the real Harper emerge, and they don't like what they see.

Honeymoon's over. The knives are coming out!

Gwest: You are correct with your comments about Alberta drivers. That is one of the reasons I no longer live in the city. It is a statistical truism that half the people are below average and one need only get in their vehicle to quickly ascertain which ones those are.

Oilbertan
You might want to check your history again my friend. The deal that JFK and his brother brokered with the USSR in 1962 involved removing the missiles from Cuba; the removal of US missiles from Turkey and the commitment of the US not to overthrow the Cuban government.

You didn't hear about it at the time but it happened none the less. Just because the National Review doesn’t talk about it and you can’t find any references to the real facts in the Washington Times doesn’t mean it isn’t true.

There was no undertaking to remove the blockade or establish a reasonable working relationship with Castro and the Cuban people - which would have helped the situation, not hurt it. Castro would never have lasted 47 years – or the situation would be very different than it is today if the US had behaved differently. As for Castro as a war criminal, I don’t think so. Bush could be indicted for starting a war of aggression, the same thing the Nazis were charged with at Nuremburg; there is no way you can hang that on Fidel.

Thus, the US has done the worst it could under the agreement its government entered into. Nothing to be proud of but your point about an atom bomb - which the dinosaurs in the Pentagon would have loved to use - is nonsense in the actual context and relative to what I posted.

Bobb999: I am sure that it will not surprise you that I disagree with your take on the upcoming US elections (as well as consequence for Harper et al). While the Republicans have not been as effective as many had hoped, especially in the area of spending, I have faith that the average American will see the vacuity of the Dhimmis in particular and the left in general and will keep control of their government in Republican hands if for no other reason than they realize that their country is under attack and has been in an ever escalating manner for the past 30 or so years. I also think there is a valid argument that a significant portion of Dubya's low approval ratings stem from the fact that he has not been more ruthless in his prosecution of the GWoT. But then as Alcibiades correctly pointed out, I smoke waaaaayyy too much dope.

Bobb999,

Very good piece by yourself immediately above. No doubt as this time continues to unfold as it is, it is becoming clearer and clearer what the consequence of the neoconservative/fascist world view is for all of us, and not just the peoples of the Middle East. And with that, here and in the US, there is and will be a turnign away from this unfolding material and policy poverty for ordinary folks, and the world chaos and drift to war these neoconazis invariably lead us into.

They are such bigoted and hateful people, it becomes precisely the kind of world and its consequences they create.

But the other thing that seems to be occurring alongside this exposure of the extreme neocon right, has been revealed as well the generalized inadequacy of the entire pro-capitalist, "liberal", "social democratic" spectrum which huddled around the centre at the formation of this extreme conservative tendencies rise to power. They exposed their own cowardice and inability to stand up to it, the Democrats in the US, and the NDP/Liberal manifestations in this country.

There is need, there in the US and here in Canada, to be created a new, more clearly definable and bolder left, more willing and capable of challenging the presumptions of a never ending capitalism as we know it. And with its ever more obvious inadequate ruling class definition of democracy, in perpetuity controlled by money privilege. Without this new, more radicalized political direction development, we return to the same old, same old that led us to here, and which will bring us back to this same place again, and again and again. Indeed, we will never truly get out of this social decline, dead-end place where capitalism and these neoconservative fascists have led us into.

It is past time, in my view, to begin to turn sharply away from all the parties and political tendencies that have been an integral part of capitalism to here. It is time for "the left" to re-invent itself.

Well said. You know that fav. old quote of Mae West's comes to mind..."I was once Snow White but I drifted."

And so has the left....(drifted, that is)... to that deadly land where all snowflakes and political parties really are the same.

If we continue to support political parties no matter where they drift, we really have the same thing anyway - no political parties...and no real differentiated voices to represent the diversity of our views.... but really just one grand monopoly on power that lives to serve the ruling elite, despite all the clever disguises to the contrary.

...have been busy blackberry picking today...and I would give you all a piece of warm blackberry pie if I could. A great long summer week-end to all. ;-)

The pie sounds wonderful; a good weekend to you and yours as well lynn.

mmm blackberry my favourite...

our blackberry patch isn`t ready yet ..a few but not enough to pick yet..mmm mouthwatering now... blackberry pie..have a nice weekend all :-)

bob the cat and bob the cat

The area where I live does not naturally grow blackberries-, at least certainly not like the coast. Though each year I keep my eye on a nice sized patch in an old abandoned pioneer farm site, where somebody obviously established them as part of their garden. Which gives us enough for a pie and several jars of blackberry jam-, which if a bit short, I mix with raspberries. Also mmmm good.

Though I just rode out to check on them a day or two ago, and they are still pretty green.

By the by, try mixing about 50/50, huckleberries (which crop has been disasterous in this extreme heat year here) and raspberries. Also delicious.

Canning season is one of my favourite times of the year. Lots of work, but lots of reward too in the middle of winter. Peaches, pears and pickled onions coming up here in pretty quick order.

How did this line of thought which started asking about Bush being charged for war crimes end up with a discussion on picking blackberries. Have you all ran out of ideas?

I note in the US papers yesterday that a few very young US soldiers might end up courmarshalled for doing what the figured was great fun. Shoot a few people in the back as they were being told to run away. Seems they beliived they were told by higher authority to kill all men on the age that might fight them. That alone should make a few of us wonder what the hell is the US thinking about, if, true, and how is it the highest rank involved in killing prisioners, or torturing prisioners never seem to be of the lower rank. Where are all the officers? Where is the Political guy in change of the military and of course the guy who is Commander in Chief. You knwo the guy for which this article actaully started the story. I note that the General that set up the prison camps that ended up doing the torture in assorted places ended up getting a very high award from the Commander in Chief. Maybe before they finish the corutmarshalls of those lower rank guys they can get a medal as well from Bush.

DPL
sometimes blackberries are a welcome relief

There's another story out of Iraq in the Times this morning too which illustrates just how pear-shaped things are going there.

Here's just a flavour of the story:

BAGHDAD, Iraq, Saturday, Aug. 5 — Tens of thousands of followers of the Shiite cleric Moktada al-Sadr rallied in support of the Lebanese militia Hezbollah on Friday, denouncing Israel and the United States for igniting violence throughout the Middle East.

The protest, the largest of several demonstrations in Iraq since the Israeli-Lebanese conflict began more than three weeks ago, filled 20 blocks of a wide, squalid boulevard and dozens of side streets in the Shiite-dominated Sadr City section of the capital.

All but a handful of the demonstrators were men, mostly young, wearing white cloth to symbolize funeral shrouds. Some carried guns. Waving Lebanese flags and posters of Hezbollah’s leader, Sheik Hassan Nasrallah, they shook their fists and shouted in unison against what they described as the enemies of all Muslims.

“Hezbollah, beloved! Hit Tel Aviv! Hit Tel Aviv!” the protesters said. “No, no, no, Israel! No, no, no, America!” they chanted. And, finally, “If Americans are strong enough, they should come face us!”

The United States and Iraq’s new Shiite-led government have been at odds over the Israeli-Lebanese conflict since it started. Hezbollah, a Shiite group with ties to Iran, inspires widespread support here among Shiites. At the protest, barefoot boys in camouflage T-shirts scampered after men handing out posters of Sheik Nasrallah, grabbing at them as if they were candy.

Mr. Sadr’s organization claimed that a million people had attended; the United States military said it had counted 14,000.

In an effort to tap into Hezbollah’s widening ring of support, Mr. Sadr’s deputies sought repeatedly to conflate the Sadr-led uprising against Americans in Najaf two years ago with Hezbollah’s current fight against Israel.

“This month is the anniversary of the Mahdi victories in Najaf and other provinces,” Hazem al-Aaraji, Mr. Sadr’s deputy, said in a speech to the crowd, referring to the Mahdi Army, Mr. Sadr’s militia. “This month begins the sewing of a new robe of resistance in Lebanon.”

The peaceful, highly organized show of force by Mr. Sadr — who called for the rally earlier this week — started near a mosque after Friday Prayer, when Muslims typically gather in large numbers. It came at a time of growing tensions between the American military and his organization. On Thursday, American troops killed at least two occupants of a vehicle carrying armed Shiites to Baghdad for the rally.

American and Iraqi forces have also recently conducted a series of raids on bases of the Mahdi Army and have arrested high-ranking militia leaders.

Regardless of what anal rententives may think about blackberries...:-)

Back from the time of the beginning of this current rampage in the Middle East, initiated by the US and now joined by its second true (after Britain), reliable "western-centric" ally in the Middle East, and the true provocateur of "these troubles in the first place, I was predicting, perhaps a little wildly, that before this was over, the entire Middle East would be in flames. It turns out not so wildly now, of course, because that is what is evolving of its own accord, and as GWest alludes, we now have the Iraqi Shia aroused and emboldened, whereas to here they had been largely neutralized, and Iran's being drawn in, I think, is likely just a matter of time away.

And Iran is most likely to drawn in because they must know that if this goes badly for Hizbullah and Hamas, and the Zionists and the US Empire emerge victorious and emboldened, they will then next zero in on Iran in any case, sans the considerable experience and fighting capacity of Hizbullah and Hamas.

So, in my view, the next widening of the war of Arab resistance brings in Iran, and entirely possibly Syria. Indeed, both are already involved significantly, at the level of being suppliers and transit route facilitators in any case. Likely, they are merely waiting for the most convenient moment to enter the fray. (When the Iraqi Shia under Muqutada Sadr are sufficiently organized and armed to rise up against the Amerikans themselves.)

Weighing the demogaphics/numbers and fighting motivational drives of the competing forces lining up against each other, though the Zionist forces will be formidable, arising out of their own desparation, my bets are on the Arabs, frankly. The Zionists, though well armed by Amerika, are just too numerically small up against the Arab sea, when aroused, that surrounds them.

And if it does happen that I turn out to be right, though more certain, not a foregone conclusion, I concede, given the complexities of wars intangibles, we may yet live to see important US and Zionist political and military personages up on war crimes trials.

In any case, I can hope and dream. :-)

Now, back to blackberries... suck it up or shut up. :-)

Coyote bro...the huckleberries here have been excellent this year..best I`ve seen..juicy fat and full..that huckle/black mix sounds interesting ..maybe give it a try...I`m acquiring a taste for the ole thimbleberry...has a slightly waxy texture but a very fine aftertaste..much underappreciated the ole thimbleberry methinks. It has an incredible colour.. a very vibrant red...

Connoisseurs, the both of you - I'm off to the bloody farmer's market.

Jaysus, I gotta have a piece of berry pie with Vanilla ice cream.

I'm not familiar with the thimbleberry. I will check it out. :-)

A good day to you, brother.

The other potential development to be watching for, I think, are popular uprisings against those dictatorial, monarchist or bullshitt democratic regimes beholden/bribed/kissing the ass of the US Empire and/or the Zionist Occupiers. Thinking Jordan, Egypt and Saudi Arabia especially, though not excluding entirely even the rising Islamic tide in Turkey, which has an issue with the Kurds of Northern Iraq. (Even Syria, though as occurred with Sadaam, while once Amerika's "best friend" now fallen out with them for the error of behaving "independantly", is a possible "overthrow" candidate as well, though further down on the scale of probability. Being as it is at least not currently menage a trois "group fuking" with Amerika and the Zionists.)

When, if and as this occurs, both Amerika and the Zionists are both in so much shitt, they are singly or separately unlikely to get out of the Middle East alive or with their armies intact. And the Zionists may even fall, under a vengeful Arab wrath, to being totally eradicated or "ethnically cleansed" from the Middle East flora and fauna, for the second and final time. (Throwing a total fuk into the essential precondition for the Biblical fulfillment of the Final Days "rapture event". Which requires the Jews, according to "prophesy", to be ruling as God's "chosen people" in the land of Israel-, at least in one scenario I've read.)

What a totally dangerous world the US Empire is creating for us all. Complete, total whack jobs that they and the Zionists are.

Make blackberry pies, not war.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/746312.html

Co-Op radio had a great program this morning

SPECIAL PROGRAMMING ON THE CRISIS IN THE MIDDLE EAST

TUNE IN TO CO-OP RADIO, 102.7 FM FOR THE REDEYE PROGRAM

SATURDAY AUGUST 5TH -- 9 A.M to 10 A.M.

Interviews with:

Daniel Freeman-Maloy, young activist and author of many articles on Z-Net,
discussing Canadian reactions to the crisis -- from the government,
political parties, media and popular organizations.

Michel Warshawsky in Jerusalem, writer, activist and founder of the
Alternative Information Center, discussing the Israeli anti-war movement and
its prospects.

Gilbert Achcar, Lebanese author and frequent contributor to Le Monde
Diplomatique, will speak on Hezbollah, and the impact of Israel's aggression
on Lebanese politics and the wider Middle East.

I only caught half of it unfortunately but was able to hear Michel Warshawsky..
Wow! Brilliant dude...his book I believe is titled " Towards an Open Tomb"
I haven`t googled him as yet...He was saying ultimately the West and Israels logic is racist.
The War on Terror...then the War on the Countries that sponser terror...then war on the people of terror..war on the whole Arab people.. the whole Islamic civilization as Iraq and Lebanon clearly illustrate.
If honest and fair elections were held in Egypt today..the Muslim Brotherhood would easily win...and who knows in the other puppet states? King Abdullah of Jordan is sweating it..telling the neo-con Zionists that this will make it much more difficult in holding on to power.

Good stuff both redriver girl and bob the cat.

The West has sowed a nest of vipers with its policies; creating, in effect, the terror it sought to counteract and now Israel is feeding them the blood they need to grow to full maturity.

Sorry I missed the broadcast btc, I'm not actually sure my radio would bring it in anyway - where is it on the dial?

http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en

great site..courageous brothers and sisters in Israel..plus a wonderful looking maestro..check him out

G...CFRO 102.7 Fm...I receive it on Cable only but they do broadcast online

http://www.coopradio.org/

It helps to have a schedule
Mon. Wed. Fri. Wake Up with Co-op 7-9 A.M. is good...with Charles Boylen

Brown Bagger Monday to Fridays from noon till one

Red eye from 9-noon Saturdays
These are my favourites.

You can become a member ..nominal amount..they`ll send you Listeners Guide.
Check online

Geez, I just realized, in that Mae West quote above, I wasn't trying to suggest that the left had was ever virginally Snow White or purrrfect...that would not only be false, I wouldn't expect it or want it so.. I was just trying to say that it had drifted. I mean, Snow White's, very nice and innocent and all.... but she does keep falling for the Wicked Queen's bag of tricks. Now as for Dopey, Doc, and Bashful...yup, even Grumpy ...definitely flawed but... chaaarming. ;-)

Amen to your slogan, rrg...and to thimbleberries, btc... thanks for the huckleberry jam tip, Coyote...wow... this must be summer. :-)

From a great blog G West told me about ( written by a reporter living in the Mid-east). re: the civilian deaths in Lebanon and Israel:

"Freedland makes a similar point. Echoing comments by the UN's Jan Egeland, he says Hizbullah fighters are "cowardly blending" with Lebanon's civilian population. It is difficult to know what to make of this observation. If Freedland means that Hizbullah fighters come from Lebanese towns and villages and have families living there whom they visit and live among, he is right. But exactly the same can be said of Israel and its soldiers, who return from the battlefront (in this case inside Lebanon, as they are now an invading army) to live with parents or spouses in Israeli communities. Armed and uniformed soldiers can be seen all over Israel, sitting in trains, queuing in banks, waiting with civilians at bus stops. Does that mean they are "cowardly blending' with Israel's civilian population?

Egeland and Freedland's criticism seems to amount to little more than blaming Hizbullah fighters for not standing in open fields waiting to be picked off by Israeli tanks and war planes. That, presumably, would be brave. But in reality no army fights in this way, and Hizbullah can hardly be criticised for using the only strategic defences it has: its underground bunkers and the crumbling fortifications of Lebanese villages ruined by Israeli pounding. An army defending itself from invasion has to make the most of whatever protection it can find -- as long as it does not intentionally put civilians at risk. But HRW's research shows convincingly that Hizbullah is not doing this."

http://www.jkcook.net/Articles2/0269.htm#Top

I would highly recommend a film showing tonight at 10:30 on the Bravo Channel.

It is titled Burn! by Gillo Pontecorvo with Marlon Brando.
I am surprised this rare masterpiece is actually being shown on mainstream television. It follows "Missing" by Costa-Gavras...about the overthrow of Allende in Chile.

Burn! is such an ambitious film and parts of it are so inspiring that one can't help forgiving its unresolved contradictions, the largest of which is the attempt to fit a dialectical reading of history into the form of an action drama with the opposing forces of colonizer and colonized embodied in the two leading characters. Brando often remarked that he was proudest of his work in Burn!, and certainly it's his performance that makes the film more than just a series of visually spectacular set pieces, and riveting from beginning to end.

If you can`t see the film..record it!

All I could find was bumbleberry pie, sheesh!

Somebody from my past used to swear by Marionberries - I think they are a kind of blackberry - as the ne plus ultra of pie makings.

Thx for the heads up btc. I'll try and see if my anaemic receiver can pull it in.

Cook is good, isn't he, lynn?

That btc, immediately above, was in response to your post about Coop Radio. This is thanks for the heads up re the Pontecorvo film.

You and lynn are the masters of culture, and pie! Thanks. Honourable mention to Coyote of course.

I'll be watching for more poignant posts of poetry....maybe that should be posts of poignant poetry.
chrs.

Marionberries..aren`t they only native to Washington D.C.?

Cook is very very good G.

Have I lost my mittens? I have no pie. I`m alone..at this keyboard..I found an empty pie shell in the freezer.. just the husk..white..frozen..empty..must I wait until dark? Search the skies?
Little itch confronts lulu..
searching out beebleberries
The politics of the New Cruelty
empty pie shells

LOL btc - you are one of a kind.

By the way, lots of good stuff online from the current issue of New Yorker.

btw lynn, if'n you're still there the little family drama I told you about some weeks ago is now more poignant than ever. The young gentleman in the piece is now in jail - sadder and sadder I'm afraid

Very sorry to hear that G West...that must be a really unbearable situation for all.

"Make blackberry jam, not war."

I like it. :-)

Bob the cat,

Shit, man, I saw "Burn" aeons ago. I'm sure I was in the navy then, young, a walking hard on, with scarcely two clues I could rub together, but wound up in this movie house just because I was already then entranced with the acting genius of Marlon Brando. (I've always been a lover of the cinematic arts.) It was one of those events which seemed to conspire with other experiences I was having at the time, to turn me into a Communist.

I must watch it again. An outstanding movie, that appeared and then was almost immediately gone, with scarcely anyone in the public seeming to know it was even there. And as for the Oscars or any other kind of formal recognition, it was almost like it was kicked under the rug, to get it out of sight, out of mind.

There have been a number of outstanding Amerikan actors over the years, of course, male and female, but Marlon Brando had a genius he seemed to even be unaware, or even appreciative of, that put him, for his time, head and shoulders abaove anyone else, male or female. A Street Car Named Desire, Burn, and perhaps his ultimnte cameo triumph, already in his popularity decline, on Apocolypse Now, during the Vietnam War.

We've been canning, actually freezing, tomatoes today. I'm told at the farmer's market today, that the free stone peaches should be starting to appear in the Okanagan orchards next week.

Can the Bartlett pears be far behind?

We're going to make a quick trip into the Ohanagan tomorrow, maybe to get some more tomatoes, and see what else are in the farmer's fruitstands. Silverskin onions?

Coyote..you too? Brando...he was a huge influence on me as a young guy.. The Wild One.. Zapata..
On the Waterfront.."Charlie you was my bruddah..I coulda been somebody..Charlie I wuz a contenduh".... Yes Brando had a kind of genius..handy too..I remember reading of him visiting Tennesee Williams as a young actor accompanied by a beautiful young actress..Williams lived in a very old run down house with his partner. Brando fixed their wiring and other problems they were having with the house...he slept on the floor.
Williams was amazed at his handiness with fixing things.
The scene with his dead wife from " Last Tango in Paris" is almost too much to watch it is so powerful.
Sounds like your stocking up for the winter..there is a hint of fall in the air...getting dark earlier..
My apples were pathetic this year...two transparent apples..one shrivelled little Gravenstein..seems in the Spring we get a nice little warm spell..the blossoms bloom like hell..then a monsoon hits..and pours for 2 weeks solid...seems to rot the blossoms...or is it the bees? My friend Godfrey up the hill kept bees...and I had lots of fruit.. I would see his bees in my clover..he`s moved away with his hives and my fruit is almost non existant..is it the bees or the heavy rain at blossom time? I have pruned but don`t use pesticides or fertilizers.

ditto on Brando. There's one film you didn't list that I also enjoyed: Arthur Penn's The Chase with Brando as the upright Texas sheriff. Also with Robert Redford as I recall, Angie Dickinson and Robert Duvall. Brando's character takes a beating in that movie in defence of a moral principle that I'll never forget...
I often wondered if the story was modeled after the real lynching of a black man that had taken place years earlier in Waco Texas.

Good God the article started with Bush as a potential War Criminal, went to blueberries, and is now on Brando as a actor. Wonder why folks bother to write articles if the end result is nowhere near the article. But if one has all day with not much to do I guess it's sort of easy to wander way off track.

Lots of berry UPicks on the pensinsula this weekend. I can give you the addresses and prices if you want to back up a bit.
3700 assorted workers for Bush are due to show up here in Victoria in the next couple of days, in a big boat. Full page adds in the local paper and the tourist groups are salivating, not to mention the folks who sell Cuban cigars. Been a hard few weeks for them doing war games around Hawaii and this place keeps asking them to come back.

DPL
You obviously didn't stay up and watch 'Burn'. If you had, you'd get the point. Very relevant to war crimes and criminals in general. Want the tape?

The sad part is that Victoria is such a tourist trap now. So many wonderful things to see throughout the Lower Island and yet all most tourists ever get is an overpriced tour of Butchart Gardens, a waste of a couple of hours at the Wax Museum (which could be anywhere in the world) or Miniature World. The name of the game is get 'em in, lighten their wallets and move 'em back to the boats on smoke-belching relics of ye olde London. It is pathetic.

I suppose the sailors will find other attractions to waste their money on.

Island berries ARE better than the lower mainland variety and the vegetables are wonderful too. I don't suppose day tourists form a big part of your clientele though do they?

As for ‘wasting’ time here: I don’t think so, any more than you’ve been wasting your time on the ALR thread arguing with maestro. I find I can actually keep up with what’s going on here and do three or four other jobs (on the weekends when I’m not working an 80 hour week) at the same time. Easy Peasey!

Thanks G...I agree. Easy Peasey DPL.

Peace

RTB

sorry about that I missed Burn, but a old one called "Missing" showed up a couple of nights ago. Jack Lemmon played a lead role. the scariest part was when he got to talk to some Consular official. He told The grieving parent that the US are there to protect the american interests, or words to that effect. So his kid was a write off I guess. Been that way for many years.

DPL
Yep! Same old story that, the boy's murder was collateral damage from the American-sponsored military takeover in Chile in Sept 1973. Seems like the sacrifices people of one kind or another have to make to further and protect American interests will never end.

Something very interesting in yesterday's Washington Post on this subject - almost missed it.

If the Bush White House is not at all concerned about the possibility that some of its members could be prosecuted for war crimes, why would this be necessary?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/08/AR2006080801276_pf.html

Hope the link works.

Here's just a few lines from the story:

Nothing like closing the barn door after the horse has walked out onto the street.

Similar questions - about a leader's culpability in (and for) war - are also being asked of Tony Blair.

From the New Statesman:http://www.newstatesman.com/200608070017

Big report out of the New York Times regarding the US involvement in the" defence" of itself by bombing and destroying a large part of Lebanon. George was on TV thos evening telling us all how the Isreali's won and the other side no longer can hit them. George stuck his nose into one more situation that started with two soldiers getting picked up and within a few hours ended up killing a lot of civilians. Some Isreali soldier was on this evening telling us how "we won this war". The Iraeli's lost 100 people mostly army. Lebanon lost over 1,000 people mostly women and kids. Way to go George, your arms merchants will be pleased. Wonder if Haliberton can get the contract to rebuild Lebanon? The painful thing for most canadians is to see Steve, George good buddy telling us all Isreal did the right thing. The shame of it all.