cenrtists like me don't vote ndp or liberal unless ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY..strategic voting is the only option left to me because of the wild swings in party politics that provincial/federal parties engage in.

someone really starts a centre/humanitarian party,you/they have my vote,and don't even mention the greens,because they are as invalid as all the others with their insufferable,holier than thou, ideals,but i will throw a vote their way at times.

i am looking for someone/a party that concerns itself over our WHOLE ENVIRONMENT,that is everything we touch,from the earth ,to our monetary system....EVERYTHING

AND I DON'T SEE ANYTHING ON THE HORIZON...

Nice article.

I'm one of those fiscally conservative, but socially progressive folks who feel torn at election time. I worked with the mentally handicapped for seven years as a younger person, but I work in the real estate development industry today. So I see many issues from both of these perspectives and would welcome a party that did a better job of balancing fiscal, social and environmental imperatives.

I for one thought that the BCLie_beral move to fixed election dates was an ill advised move toward a more choreographed and Americanized type of election cycle. Gordo and his cabal of crooks proved that by presenting and then not even debating the budget prior to the last election, shutting down the legislature and freeing their 70+ members to campaign for a month or two on the public dime.

My question for Rafe (as one who may be more knowledgeable about the parliamentary traditions than I) is what happens to Gordo's precious American style fixed election dates in the case of a minority government and/or a vote of non-confidence (a vote of which this excuse for a government would be deserving at any time). The idea of four or five years of paralyzed minority government doesn't seem particularly desirable, though like anything other than Stalin or Hitler, would be preferable to what we have in Victoria currently.

Why doesn't Gordo just immigrate to the USA and work to become governor of a state, like maybe South Dakota or Mississippi. Maybe they could even amend the Constitution so he and Arnold could each be Rethuglican presidents if there are any openings for non-Bushes.

'The NDP have always spoken for the poor, the disadvantaged, the unemployed, the halt, the lame and the blind.'
i hope this was said in jest raif, b/c you must know that the ndp was the worst thing that could have happened to the above in the 90's in b.c.. thank god alberta was so close when glennie and the boys were in charge.

Elliot,
You're daft! Are you suggesting the 'poor, the disadvantaged, the unemployed, the halt, the lame and the blind' were getting better treatment in Alberta than they did in B.C.? If you had a funtional memory chip in your head you'd remember that was the time King Ralph was providing bus tickets out of Alberta for anyone he thought belonged to those categories. You are such a schlemiel.

perfect lefty answer g west. you look at the govt's role as providing handouts, while i view at as providing real opportunity in the form of jobs and the opportunities resulting from a strong economy. are you suggesting that the poor, disadvantaged, etc. aren't capable of working in some capactiy? if so, you're wrong, and i know from personal experience that it is more beneficial to do so. btw; it was the ndp who began the process of trimming the welfare roles in this province, and she took her lead from king ralph. 'god helps those who help themselves' is what my grandmother always insisted, and she was dead on.

that last statement of ELLIOT'S finally proves that other posters who have disapeared because of calling elliot a bible thumper are valid and that only vociferous complaining from ELLIOT could have cause so many to disapear,without question.

either FREE SPEECH here is a joke or ELLIOT works for the tyee as a paid TROLL to get the juices flowing in the common rabble.

you sound like a real right wing bible thumping preacher out of abbotsford,ELLIOT

now wipe the drool off your chin.grammie wouldn't like that,seeing one of her spawn so common.

Hm. It's a little sad to see people still blaming individuals for issues surrounding poverty and unemployment.

If it were really the case that "God helps people who help themselves," it would seem shocking to me that women, people with disabilities, First Nations and children were so overrepresented among the poor and therefore so eager to not "help themselves." Yes, the individual does have a place in all this, but the mere fact that poverty exists so much more among certain populations in comparison to others is indicative of barriers that individuals often don't really have power over. Or maybe women, First Nations and people with disabilities are just lazy?

Elliot
You really are dull stuff. You're the one who brought up Klein as a model - not me. If you think the erosion of welfare in this province started with the NDP you're completely out of it – either that or you’re no more than 12 years old. This is what you said:

The obvious implication being that Ralph Klein's and Alberta's proximity was somehow good for the

either in this province or in Alberta.

That's nuts and if you have a shred of integrity you'll admit it. Is your grandmother in favour of slashing assistance for the poor, the disadvantaged, the halt, the lame and the blind in addition to the unemployed? Give it up man!

If you can’t make a coherent case for your point of view you’d be better off heading to Alberta now where you’d have a cood chance to get a job with such a poor education.
You should stick to deliveries.

I would like to know what the words "fiscally responsible mean" in a society, where a
certain special interest sector has been handed the right to "create" unlimited amounts of money for its own enrichment, while governments willingly shoulder the responsibilities for the convertibility of that imaginary money and have to pick up the pieces of the damage caused by the irresponsible misuse of imaginary capital?

"Fiscally conservative" should mean that money creation be limited to strict, necessary limits and be taken away from a special interest sector and taken back, into the hands of a publicly responsible and accountable system.

We had far less poverty and environmental destruction when money creation by the banks was strictly regulated, instead of licencing their present criminal behavour .

People, and especially politicians, unless they're bought and paid for, should realize that money creation is the creation of debts, because every dollar "created" by a bank is a debt on the necks of society, while benefiting a few.

Ed Deak, Big Lake.

I am sure there are lots of Libs that quietly wish Gordon would just disappear into another dimension. Come the next election, they will be having a lot of grief selling their record and having a new leader would give them the chance to say we will be different.

I see the NDP has been making a slow evolutionary crawl to the centre for awhile now, of course the problem with being in the centre is that you can not be all things to all people and being centralist means trying not to piss off to many voters just before election day.

Gwest and Elliot

Frankly I think you are both right. Klein certainly did tell the world is that there are some people we don’t want and if you don’t like head to BC, at the same time he provide a lot of business opportunity. He benefited from having a province full of oil, but I suspect he would have been similar even if they didn’t have the oil. For a politician he is blunt and doesn’t really care if you like what he says, some people prefer that and some don’t. People will argue whether he was elected for himself or because of the oil money, I suspect that it was a bit of both. He was kind of the WAC Bennett of Alberta, I wonder who they will get to succeed him.

Hmm, It is interesting that the West has certainly had it’s share of colourful Premiers, must be something in the water.

Colin
You need to check up on your Alberta history.

g west and afro; not religious at all, but i will turn the other cheek and love my neighbour as myself.

i have read your previous posts over the past couple of months ELLIOT.

any talk against religion or the bibblethumpers in alberta or abbotsford and you were the first to start screaming like a stuck pig.

and loving your neighbour like yourself is a joke after anyone read the nasty comments out of your little narrow mind.

you are nothing but a troll here disembling the facts others wish to pursue in ernest.

i love you too harald, but i am definitely not religious. in fact i haven't been to mass since i was 15. see how easy it is to turn the other cheek?

As a Conservative - I believe the BC Liberals are become too close to the middle.

There is plenty of money for PST cuts, Gas tax, debt repayment and income tax reductions. Rather, they are offering $3,500 bonuses to unions workers that sign a contract on time.

Tax cuts have been minimal in the past four years, and we continue to lose out to Alberta and the United States.

I would prefer to see further tax cuts and services cuts. I would support any reasonable conservative government - i.e. if the Colemans, Falcons, Les' and Neufeld's broke off to form a Conservative party of BC.

Colin,

I disagree - the BC Liberals have a tremendous record and their only detractors are labour.

They have made some mistakes, and have admitted they could do a better job in areas.

However, this government is recognized throughout the country as one of the best-run governments.

They also have a very strong base of support. I see a cake-walk in 2009, unless the centre-right vote becomes split - as has occured for virtually every NDP victory - save 1991.

mabel, do you proof-read your posts before you submit them? On the health care in Sweden thread you chastise the tyee regulars for claiming to have all the answers (which they/we don't) while humbly admitting that you do not have the answer yourself, but your posts are usually full of generalizations and contradictions. I am not a part of labour, nor are most of my friends, yet we all oppose Campbell and his gang.

People always want more in good times, but are never willing to give back during the bad times.

This is what you said in your post on the budget article – are you also describing yourself mabel? I ask because of the inherent contradiction in the brand of conservatism that you so proudly wear on you sleeve. You seem to support tax cuts (whether it be sales, income, or gas), but why? Would you support tax increases during the “bad times”? Why do you frown when unionized workers make demands for better working conditions or a reasonable wage increase? Why are they, in your terms, special interests? Are your calls for privatization and tax cuts not the wants of special interests as well? In my opinion mabel, the conservatives of your thinking are the biggest special interest group there is, and the most dangerous. Always looking for what’s in it for them and to hell with the rest. I wish that you could admit this mabel: that you don’t believe in the public good, that you are only interested in what’s good for yourself and yourself only.

...should be in quotes...

Elliot
Since you haven't been to Mass for a year or two - I actually thought you were just 12 - maybe you missed the encyclical Laborem Exercens. You should check it out - it has some words in it about the value of working people - you might even share it with your grandmother.

you are no conservative mabellbc,reading your posts show you for what you are...a cheerleader for campbell et al.

your subtle little digs at everyone else but the cretins in power show your bent.

c'mon crow for the best run government some more.

best run ? in who's estimation ? YOURS ?

they have a tremendous record and their only detractors are labour ? i don't think you have been watching the media or reading have you ?

that you could write CRAP like this and put your name to it...ooooppppps...your name aint there is it.

no wonder you write CRAP and try to pass it off as fact.

ubiquitous
mabellbc is channeling Grace McCarthy. Don't expect too high a standard of rational thought. As long as real estate values continue to rise and the great unwashed don't do anything but pass through Kerrisdale on their way to the salt mines she's okay. I know there are contradictions in her views - the other day she was hot on the trail of those Liberal miscreants Vasi and Birk.
Now she says the Campbell Libs are the best thing since sliced bread – go figure!

mabellbc ? i thought godsChild channels old grace mcsnarky !

then again grace always thought she was canadas version of that iron lady ,maggie thatcher.

and thatcher,well she was just godsChilds idol,
so what a vicious circle that is...

small wonder we want middle of the road with people like those above running around loose.

There is never a place to put stuff that doesn't fall into any of the currently available filing bins on this site.
I know Rafe is talking about the provincial Libs but I think this is interesting - apropos of what we were recently talking about on this site. I think the Tyee may be getting a slightly wider readership these days, have a look:
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1142635819486&call_pageid=970599109774&col=Columnist969907622983

Sorry to be repetivie on RAV, but like the FastFerrys, RAV will haunt the Liberals in 2009. Already over budget by $1 billion (that's right guys, good old Doebel & Co. said it would cost $1.2 billion in 2001), this subway is posing many problems, hence Falcon dog and pony show with Grinell, a Millenium Lne guy and Vanoc in charge to furthe muddle the upcoming fiasco.

Parking tax, best be called the RAV tax, as this is Translink's hedge against a lack of ridership. Already the Auditor General has serious problems with the ridership models and if RAV doesn't achiev predicted ridership, regional taxpayers will be hit hard.

The Liberals are tired and their sociopath leader, may just lead them into an electoral debacle.

Grumpy
You don't fear, with Carole Taylor's 60 year old smile leading them, that they'll pull victory from the jaws of defeat another time?
A lot of work to do between now and then...RAV won't be the only disaster.

I am as many of you know pretty much a right winger on many issues. I am also socially concious inspite of hating drug dealers, users and general drains on our society.
But politics in BC never really changes. It not voting for who or them that you like, but rather it's a vote for them that you dislike least.
How many of us vote with one hand and hold our noses with the other??????
Like it or not, the Yanks do have something on our archaic feudal system imposed on us by those moronic Brits of old.
The yanks do have some very good checks and balances in their political processes. They are seldom used because apathy is running rampant even there. They have it too good in my mind... as small as it is.
They have workable recall and binding initiatives.
The thought there is that the collective wisdom of the voters is far greater than that of individuals. On that I agree.
Why is it so hard for left and right to understand that if either one is too radical, the people for whom they are elected to represent will revolt and undo their careful manipulation of the system?
We had a close call with STV. Some liked it, I didn't.
If we had the same recall and initiative provisions some things would change. I want to put ALL politicians on a short leash... with a choke chain. If this was in effect here, with all the passion that we have for fiscal and social concerns... It wouldn't matter who was elected because the people would control final outcomes on ANY issue. No deal would be closed. No one government would dare incite the ire of the populace or they would be their own undoing.
The only way we are ever going to change anything in this province as polarized as it is, is in changing the system that politicians live and operate under.
And in that, Liberal, Coservative, NDP and Green are united as one. They don't want it because they won't control it all at all. You will.
I want a middle party all right. One that is there to enact legislation to empower the people of the province, to the exclusion of all special interest groups.
People aren't stupid. Our political process is.

freebc
TO suggest that the system currently ingrained in the USA is somehow preferable to what we've got here is pretty much a debate between Danish Blue and Limburger - they're both cheese and the smell pretty much equally bad. Where do you think the McCain-Feingold-Cochran Campaign Reform Bill came from? And why pray tell, do you think the vested moneyed interests - and fundamentalist right wingers - are so dead set against its reforms? Quite simply, because lobbying, special interests, pork barrel politics, traditional earmarks, subsidies and the like are so rife in the public life of the United States that many senate and congressional districts have become virtual rotten boroughs.
We certainly need some sort of change in this country, but to suggest that we ought to emulate the Republican solution to the south is both poorly thought out and ill-advised. Furthermore, it plays precisely into the hand of our recently elected fundamentalist proto-republican Prime Minister.
Our system may be stupid but the current aberration operating in the states is little, if any, improvement.

freeBC:

You're right!

Carole Taylor is a 'yesterdays' person and I'll wager she has no raport with those under 40. If Campbell stays for 2009, she will be damn close to 70 before she will have a crack at it.

Carole (wet noodle) James had better smarten up though and start asking the tough questions and playing at being Campbell's patsy. She must remeber, in opposition you must oppose. "Cry havoc and unleash the dogs og war." Being a nicey nicey ain't going to win her a lot of votes.

Politics in this province is polarised between the two major parties, with an amorphous group from every part of the political spectrum who have a "pox on both your houses" attitude, and vote Green. I have a VERY hard time that there are enough centrist voters in such an environment to make a big difference to either the Liberals or the NDP.

Outside the GVRD, the NDP needs the election issue to be the lack of Liberal concern for the regions. That's possible, given concerns over healthcare, and the majority opinion that our "prosperity" isn't being shared by everyone. Problem is that there aren't many seats left there for the NDP to pick up. It's within the GVRD that the NDP will need to gain seats, and Liberal mismanagement of the RAV line might be enough.

The point is that the election will not be won or lost primarily by appealing to the centre, but by careful positioning on a regional basis.

ubiquitous:

absolutely - i do not dispute that the business interest is a special interest group, and probably the most powerful of them all. They may not be as vocal as labour, but they write the cheques and we all know that money talks!!

I would always prefer service cuts before tax cuts. I pay enough in taxes, and I want some back. Any fiscal minded person will tell you that the private sector focuses on efficiency, whereas the public sector does not. Our programs are bloated with unnecessary spending.

As far as the Campbell Libs, in 5 years - they have managed to:

* Drastically reduce taxes
* Increase tax revenues
* Achieve the lowest unemployment ever
* Lead the nation in economic growth
* Maintain the country's best health care system - I read a report, which was published in the Sun, and analyzed all provincial health care systems
* Implemented massive infrastructural plans

They have done a tremendous job, but I think they should continue to spend efficiently and focus on tax reduction and increasing our competetive edge - as opposed to doling out bonuses for signing a contract on time.

The BC Liberal record has not been perfect, and I understand that commodity price have helped - however they have effectively managed the economy and the future has never been so bright.

mabellbc:

...
* Increase tax revenues
* Achieve the lowest unemployment ever
* Lead the nation in economic growth
* Maintain the country's best health care system - I read a report, which was published in the Sun, and analyzed all provincial health care systems
* Implemented massive infrastructural plans

You poor misguided fool. Are you sure they did it? Are you sure that they're responsible for world-wide increases in resource prices? Next thing you'll be telling us that they were responsible for the economic growth in China and India.

Mabellbc, do you read at all? Are you not aware of global forces? You probably still believe that BC was in a rut under the NDP because of something they did, as opposed to an economic meltdown in Asia.

And on your last point, as it's related to 2010; do you not think you'll be paying taxes, as will your children, for many decades to come to pay for that boondoggle. Fast ferries, indeed!

grub
Clearly she doesn't; read that is. Even her contention that private enterprise focuses on efficiency while public enterprises do not is frequently untrue. She's not, apparently, aware that the public sector in BC is by far the leanest and most efficient on a per capita basis in the country...and I'm sure her impressions about the efficiencies of private business are anecdotal as well. Private businesses are, in my opinion, frequently ill managed, poorly planned and utterly wasteful of both materials and manpower. The construction business, particularly, is rife with fly by night operators, sharp dealing to avoid regulatory and environmental requirements and shoddy workmanship. Safety concerns, even on well-managed job sites, are frequently handled with a wink and a grin.
And don’t talk about cost matching and enhancing productivity in large projects. Why bother? In an inflationary real property market you just appeal to government or the purchasers to cover any overruns and it’s more business as usual.

mabel: thanks for your response, but I have to totally disagree with with you butI feel that you need to be careful not to pass opinion off as fact. The abilities to critically assess information is powerful; it helps in shaping coherent arguements and positions. To wit:

I suggest that the private sector cares nothing of efficiencies in the true sense of the word. I believe that the private sector (in general - I'm thinking big business here) is more concerned with profit and stock value. Effiency is an afterthought and a good strategy to adopt to detract from its greed.

The idea that the public sector does not focus on efficiency cannot be proven at all. Measures have been put into place over the last 20 to bring about efficiencies (among other things). This whole "tax dollars being wasted" is, in my opinion, a media induced frenzy whose anger is directed at the human side of the issue - rarely at the business side (think RAV, olympics, etc.)

Furthermore, and I'll stop after this, if you have an understanding of commodity prices, how is it that the libs are to be credited with the economy. Also, your claim that they drastically reduced taxes is very much dependant on one's point of view. At the time of the initial tax cuts I was making a modest wage. My reduction in taxes coupled with the increase in service fees due to program cuts, etc., actually resulted in my net earnings being decreased.

rkewen wrote:

Y'know, I didn't vote Liberal in the last provincial election, but I am getting really tired of angry lefties who claim that any other point of view is "un-Canadian". We have differences of political opinion within our Canadian democracy -- live with it!

steve p,do us all a favour and download the CANADIAN CHARTER OF RIGHTS.then after you have read it,show us where we cannot say what we want about our political leaders.

as long as it is not slanderous or libelous(written) we can say damn near anything we want.

it's called FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION,live with it.

You are free to say it -- if you read my post you'll see I didn't argue we should remove that right. So do us all a favour and stop putting words in my mouth and respond to what is there.

Just like you are free to bellyache at my post, I am free to state how tired I am of people saying that non-left wing point of views are un-Canadian.

i did respond steve p,but i fear you just want to vent and TROLL.

read it again,it talks exactly of FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION,something i see you cannot understand without help,so get your buddy campbell to explain it,then again he tries hard to deny rights to many in this province.

and it mystifies me why you would star yapping about campbell,and complain,if you didn't like him,must be a little confused if you are making statements like that on this site.

a site known for LEFTIES and their DISLIKE OF THE KAMPBELL KLAN.

like i said,i think you are TROLLING.

Steve P
I wouldn't get my shorts in a knot about it. Patriotism is pretty mild here at the Tyee. If you want to find right-wingers who throw around the idea that they are the only proud canadians I don't think you have to look too hard. Check this out if you have a minute:
http://www.proudtobecanadian.ca/blog/

No harald -- not trolling, just disagreeing and criticizing.

I don't understand why you are howling about free expression when nobody suggested to take it away ... and then you suggest that I shouldn't be on this site because you believe I don't have the pre-requisite political beliefs. Who is the one who is against free expression here?

If you want to discuss issues only with people who agree with you, why post on the internet? The Tyee is about debate and lively opinions. So stop trying to shut down debate ... you are making ad hominem attacks by calling me a troll, rather than engaging my statement on its merits. Since you aren't even bothering to debate about what I wrote, who is the troll here? If you arguments are good and facts are correct, what are you worried about?

Moreover, in my first post I said that I didn't vote for Campbell's Liberals. I'm centrist, with all of the difficult contradictions that go with it in a partisan world -- I'm discussing a point raised in the article.

I got annoyed by people who paint their partisan values as Canadian values, suggesting those who disagree are un-Canadian. THAT attitude shuts down debate like some weird left-wing neo-McCarthyism. Moreover, it cuts both ways across the spectrum -- looking at federal politics, Paul Martin irritated me in the last election when he said his party's values were Canadian values, just like Harper did the same in a recent speech in Afghanistan. And Jack Layton does the same thing. I think we should look more closely at the effects of different specific policies, rather than damn our opponents for being un-Canadian. But I guess this is why I am a pragmatic centrist, rather than a partisan political activist.

Thanks for the link G West -- I think =^)

Suggesting that one's partisans views are the only Canadian views stinks no matter who plays that game!

reading your first post on this thread,you say you are a fiscal conservative that's socially responsible.

that sounds almost like a rightleftideologue ?

like the person that posts under that handle you post your positions the same way.

my politics are, centrist,pure and simple,everybody should be treated EQUAL,and politicians should be drawn from our ranks,not the wealthy who play games with the lives of working stiffs,the poor ,the disabled,the disenfranchised,in short,the people.

you will see in my posts i attack any that think they deserve more than the rest,especially the undeserving and there are a lot of them on this site.

and i expect,any that post,have reading skills appropriate to understanding the debate.

but that expectation is short lived after reading much of the empty rhetoric posted.

then again,there are a lot of people out there that have poor educations ,but excellent minds with ideas that do have merit.

so i am the first to admit,I am an a$$hole , live with it !

ubiquitous - G West -

Clearly we aren't even on the same page.

Efficiency = bottom line from a business perspective.

Typical lefties - you guys are hilarious. The economic meltdown in the 90s had nothing to do with the NDP and the economic boom of today has nothing to do with the Libs.

I think you all forget that during the 90's - North America saw the biggest economic boom it has ever seen. Yet, BC was left behind - resource rich Alberta wasn't.

The NDP was victim of a meltdown of the Asian economy - sure - you fools - BC has a relatively diversified economy - we are not exclusively reliant on commodity prices.

Simply, the NDP cannot manage an economy - because they aren't economic and business minded.

Plus - i am a he, not a she! Mabel Lake is one of my favourite places to relax.

harald:

Yes, I'm centrist and it can be confusing. IF I get dumped on by partisans of all stripes, then I know I'm on the right track =^)

My perspective is informed through my work as a community planner. I need to provide advice to clients, bureaucrats and politicians of many stripes and learn how to create best possible outcomes from the context I'm presented. I like to look at policy details and measurable objectives, rather than get caught up in partisan ideological wrangling. Like you, I, too, am not a fan of empty rhetoric -- especially unnecessarily divisive rhetoric.

I appreciate your views on equality and people power, although I must add that I think the wealthy are people, too. Dehumanizing political opponents is a nasty business.

mebellbc:

So... just for the record, how big a part did logging play in the BC economy of the 90's? You do know the answer, don't you? Care to revise your "diversified economy" comment (in the 90's)? During the Asian meltdown, how strong was the demand for aluminum from Kitimat, or zinc from Trail?

mabellbc
I liked you better as a she - funny that!
You're right, we're not on the same page. I happen to know quite a bit about the construction business so your claims about efficiencies equating to profits on the bottom line, as the sine qua non of private enterprise, just doesn't ring particularly true and you clearly know nothing about the civil service.

As to what the Harcourt/Clark government did or didn't do while it was in power and what role international commodity prices and the Asian (economic-not avian) flu played in its successes and failures - that's way beyond the capacity of us to debate in five minutes here. Suffice it to say that the Harris Government in Ontario got an awful lot of traction out of blaming SARS for all of its troubles. So spare me the superior attitude - left wing governments aren't the only ones making mistakes - as the current right wing gang in Victoria will undoubtedly continue to underscore.
Spare the rhetoric - I really did like you better as a girl though.

We live in a global economy, resources commodity prices have nothing to due with Gordo , neither do low interest rates and the current building boom.

What Gordo is responsible for

1) The highest growing crime rate in North America,
2) The highest child poverty rate in North America
3) Needless death and suffering of seniors and children,
4) Blushing tax cuts to BC's most wealthy
5) The sale and BC rail (still under investigation) and hence lowered standards and the destruction of a valuable river.
6) The raid on the ledge,
7) One billion over budget on RAV and not even started yet.

I can go on if you like

And Rafe, your dead wrong, folks like Elliott (bible thumping freak talking in tongues) Loves BUSH, Loves the death penalty, hates the poor, selfish prick living in the valley. Perfect evangelical like Granny will never vote NDP

Big business is funding the Fiberals, 5 times what they do the NDP. If the NDP wants to get votes they need to fight and not be the moderate fools who abandon their core supporters. The Liberals lost the popular vote last time even with all the media cheerleading and 5 times the money. If Carole came out a little harder it would be game over, the NDP should not take its support for granted, many union members will switch on a dime
if Carole is weak.

Stop reading the Sun and listening to Rafe's old Red neck radio, CKNW for your info

'We live in a global economy,'. hey stuey-boy, that's the only thing you got right in your entire blathering crock of shite. get a brain man. or grow up.

"Big Business is funding the Fiberals...If the NDP wants to get votes they need to fight and not be the moderate fools who abandon their core supporters...." Yes, all this is true, and the only things in the middle of the road are a yellow strie and dead armadillos, as one coulourful US politician is fond of saying.

Only the delusional and the stupid should be in the middle of the road. If there's no one left to see that it's either us or globalized corporations,we're all in trouble. A vote for Campbell, Klein, or any Liberal-Conservative moron is a vote for Corporate Rule. This is not a brainer, people!

The corporate media plays a critical role in shaping the points of view of the populace, and the NDP doesn't believe it, to its detriment. As long as it stays naive enough to believe thre's a "free" press out there, the NDP will never gain power again. It needs to effectively counter the obvious propaganda of the mainstream media.

Also, the NDP needs to become more Left, go back to its CCF Saskatchewan roots--never to sacrifice its principles and ideals to court the stupid and brainwashed wallowing on the yellow stripe in the middle of the road.

The NDP must procalim their ideals that much more--and follow through, once in office!!! The NDP, the labour movement, the disabled, the unemployed, the partially employed, the underpaid and disadvantaged ethnic groups---they all need fighting people like A.A. Heaps, with the humanitarianism of J.S. Woodsworth, the innovation of Tommy Douglas, the courage of Ginger Goodwin and the persistence of Nellie McClung. The leaders of today? Mostly wimps, IMHO. They negotiate tripts to the middle of the road, instead of organizing a safe way to get to the other side.

'The NDP must procalim their ideals that much more--and follow through, once in office!!!' one little problem marysue: they may never win office again.

This site seems to gender only arguement.
As thoughtful as any of you are, you will never individually make any kind of worthwhile changes to our society.
We are not Sweden or any other European country (thank God for that!).
We are not the US either (more thanks to God!).
What we are yet, is a developing democracy. We haven't come to a place where we are prepared to believe in the inherant wisdom of the collective masses IF THE ARE INFORMED!
In a society that was initiative sensitive, compromise would be the order of the day, or any initiative could not not pass by the voters.
Stupid deals like the sale of BCR or Fast Cats would be killed by an informed public. Hence a solution to polarized politics in this country.
I don't have a corner on wisdom, especially in the world of backroom deals this province has...
However, none of you do either.
WHAT WILL WE DO ABOUT IT?
taximike@telus.net