Campbell hates people, especially people of a lower station in life. The poor are poor because they want to be, is his credo! Such a man has absolutely no concern about tax cuts, unless it helps the rich, to become richer!

The destruction he has wrought on this province will not become evident for 50 years and when people realize how evil this man and government is, it will be way to late.

What tax cuts that will happen will largely benefit 'richer' others!

Umm... given Gordo's record, and that of his party (even their name is a lie), why should I believe there even IS a surplus?

People of this province will never see Gordon Campbell and his puppets treating the poor, women, children, etc fairly. The ice will melt in the north before that ever happens. They are there for big business and the riches interest only.

Perhaps it isn't our vote that counts any more, but where you spend your dollar.

since, as part of gordo et al's grand gentrification project/real estate swindle/demographic switch, squamish has lost hundreds and hundreds of good, blue-collar jobs maybe they could re-open our welfare office. Since so many elitist, yuppie jerks are being moved up here to take our place (10000 by the olympics!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)maybe they could also restore some of the other services that were brutally removed.
I mean you wouldn't want your "base" to be denied these essential services right?!

"Benefit rates have not been raised in over 12 years" isn't quite true, those who are on Level 2 Disability received a $70 increase to their monthly cheque about a year ago.

I feel this story is typical of many we've seen in both mainstream and alternative media for well over a decade. When I get to a sentence like the one I shall quote, and I see no follow-up information, I know the story is going to be unbalanced:

Because women make up the majority of public sector workers, have lower income than men, and rely on government services....

The story, like thousands before it, does not take into account any issues on the male side of the equation. For example, do most people know that by the mid-1990's in North American a full 94% of the people killed while working were men? Imagine those numbers reversed and you would see a lot stronger rules and regulations governing the logging and construction industries. Do you think some of the reason men on average make more than women might be because of the kinds of work some men do? It's like reading a story on suicides, men lead in that grim stat by more than three to one count yet I have not ever seen that reported in the numerous stories I have read about suicides in our country. By looking only at one side we don't serve women or men well. It's time to take care of all of us and stop hacking at the male, subtly like this story or overtly. Who knows, if we do that perhaps more of those men who do not treat women on an equal basis will finally get around to doing that and less men will be moved to take their own lives.

HEY PAXETTE !

I see you are not FAMILIAR with the NUMBERS GAME!

EL GORDO SEZ...give my friends some money...BUT BE DISCREET ABOUT IT ...EH !

so his minions say ...how can we give EL GORDOS SUPPORTERS SOME REWARDS ???

lets look through the ministries and see where we can divest some of OUR HUGE WINDFALL FROM CUTBACKS.....oh!oh!oh!...here we go...we can give the DISABLED money we should have given them a decade ago...and it makes us LOOK GOOD !

So give the DISABLED a pittance/$70...for RENT/LANLORDS LOVE EL GORDO...for FOOD/GROCERS LOVE EL GORDO/ESPECIALLY PATTISON...for HEALTH AIDS NEEDED BUT CUT FROM BUDGETS YEARS AGO/PHARMACIES LOVE EL GORDO...

GET THE PICTURE...EL GORDO ....gave SQUAT to the disabled...HE GAVE IT TO HIS FRIENDS !!!

Well this is the kernel of the problem isn't it brain, how to get those voters motivated out of their de rigour and convinced enough to put their "x" next to a party with the integrity to do something about it. Why do we have to hold our nose in order to vote for the NDP just because it is the least conservative, and that includes the greens, of all the parties?

When I say the NDP were just as responsible for the dead children as the Socred Liberals, I mean it. Their irresponsibility at ignoring the accomplishment of electing the NDP in a province run by the resource economy through the grassroots activists fighting for their survival on the land and the welfare of the planet was arrogant and badly misjudged. The Greens were formed and you lost key ridings, a schism that will never be repaired.

I know this is like rubbing your nose in it but I would like to use Operation Solidarity just as an example of the forces at work. What is there that will assure anyone that the same things won't happen again? Is the party any different, who are all the good old boys now? Hmmmm, I think I heard Connie mention this a couple times.

Here we go again with another NDP thinktank proposing to spend, spend, spend. Well we did that in the 1990's, and landed in an economic quicksand while the rest of the continent enjoyed a solid economy.

Now that BC's back on track, it makes sense to spend money on some deferred projects. Maybe a few that a leftie might support. Of course one thing a leftist think tank will never do is propose a tax cut.

Happily, it looks like we're on track for some.

And I hope the government closes even more welfare offices, because happily, there are far fewer people on pogie (aka the dole) than when the NDP used to hand out money simply if people asked.

What's this? An article by the Centre for Policy Aternatives critisizing the Campbell Gov't? Posted on the Tyee? The Tyee's Carole James wannabe, have-not readers whipping themselves into a frenzy on how evil and cruel Gordon Campbell and the BC Liberals are?

Shocking!

Janet666:
If you go to "The Leader the Libs Need" and see my union comments, you would know where and how I stand. In my brains perfect world in BC, its a minority government with the Greens holding the balance of power. Since the Greens have yet to win a riding and are quite green when it comes to experience and candidates, and since, as you have aptly put, its a lesser of two evils, I don't see any better alternatives or for that matter, a perfect world coming any time soon.

After watching MLA's like Emerson cherry pick this province for millions and now watch Campbell and cohorts do the same, along with the NDP and their "union support" do nothing in the way of government worker gender inequality among other issues such as deficits, it is easy to say that our governments have failed us from every angle and there is only one way to get past it.

Vote for the best individuals in your riding. If you can do a better job than the bozo's we've had and you are electable, by all means serve your province and run. Get active. Get politically motivated inspite of what the popular opinion of power and leadership corrupt "spins" might say.

We get suckered into believing that honest people who get into politics will be tempted, bribed and turn corrupt. So honest people and people who are more than one dimensional in ideology other than being honest, don't run. As a result, these seats and leadership roles get filled by those who aren't honest and see things with often arrogant, proud, unbalanced one dimensional extremes.

In other words, if we don't like it, then we have to do something about it. Organize, educate, empower, get back to the basics and if none of us have the time or the capitol, and are full of excuse, then don't expect changes. Expect the same old same O.

why isn't carole taylor at the olympics in italy like all the other pigs at the trough. i give her points for not blowing money on a trip to the olympics.

brain, I have never disagreed with anything you have written, you are logical in the extreme, but you believe that evil and corruption in positions of power can be overcome by opposing them on a field that they have created and have absolute control over.

We organized, we educated, we empowered, got back to the basics and we spent all our capitol, keeping little for ourselves. We expected change, after all we had worked hard enough. We didn't get it and we saw the same old same old running things. I think we gave enough to the party, after a while it starts to become a little too gothic.

If we are going to put our energy into something it needs to go into local initiatives, where you see results and try avoid having some political party step in to pick up rubbed off glory. Every year I see this huge energy go into getting someone elected, then when it's over everyone scrambles back to their job to make up for lost time, catching up just long enough to get ready for the next election.

What if we were to take all this energy and resources, load up the new trucks with tools and head off to Mount Currie where poor families still haven't recovered from the flood (tidal wave) that occurred there?

Why is it so important that we have 2010 winter olimpics that will keep the hard working people in debt for the next 2 or more generations?
All we are doing is building playgrounds for the so called me, my, selfless users with no conscious thought.
gordo is the devils advocate.

Janet666:
I couldn't agree with you more as well, except to say that as hopeless and regressive as it looks, progress has been made. I look at history and the genuine efforts of those who tried to make this world a better place, but failed. And I look at the systems we have, built on the efforts of others to ensure that their future generations would have it better than us, and we have through them. We have systems that are truly designed to serve the public. Is education, police, healthcare (to a lesser degree) pay as you go? Not yet. But human nature is a nasty thing.

What should we do with the nasties? Revolt? Sounds good. Have any plans or should I brain storm a few ideas myself? And what methods do you prefer, knowing that it will come at a cost and deplete those who give. Peace and love, and at what price? Charity, at what cost? The question is, should it be one of charity, or should it have ever even been a question at all.

And who should pay for it? Government, or the Brainwashed democracy and corrupt individuals that says in government not to? Those who can afford to but don't, those who can't but try, or those who become too depleted and risk becoming victims themselves if they dare try... we pay our taxes to a public pool, but...

What plan works best? General plans like "these self serving public servant fake losers gotta go!" or general specifics like "Seek for and tell the truth once you know you've found it." (wups) :-)

This mantra is one of my favorites. "Be the child your Earth mother wanted you to be. Be the child your holy parents wanted you to become." The internal "revolution" sounds like a good enough place to start. Fast tracks "The first shall be last and the last shall serve the first" church stuff, and its darn site better than stuffing your pockets with fleeting power. :-)

The main problem (regardless of religious "blather" as some other than myself would call it) with ideologies of any entity, be it business, government, unions, labor, organizations religious or otherwise, or the individual, is that "service" sometimes just doesn't show up on the menu of choice.

To serve... Regardless of what we believe or don't believe in in terms of higher powers... its those that don't serve the lesser powers, never mind the greater ones that fail and miss it, missing out on the best life has to offer, or what it truly takes to counter the worst of it, if they could ever get beyond solely serving themselves. But then, we would have to serve life that isn't human to really see greater or lesser either way within certain realms, would we not?

And, as you are pointing out, its to our shame if we cannot serve those who we should consider as equals unto ourselves...
It shouldn't have been considered to help brothers and sisters in need throughout the world. It should have been automatic!!! And again, its to our shame that it isn't.

To succeed, it takes the best of wills, the best goals and the best plans and even with them in place, there are no guarantees for success in this world. All else emplodes, for it was doomed to fail from the very start.

But in this I know. The best plans encorporate the wills and common goal of many, not one. They address the 4 abilities: responsibility, accountability, sustainability, suseptability. And with this last, are we not products of our own environments? Are we not born into ideologies that are already ill-logical and doomed along side those that are not? Give it time.

So organization and education starts there. Its starts with the networking with organizations that already exist "to serve". You already know who some of them are. And so do I. And in the end, I'll see you again and you will know me, as i know you for those who served have foretold such truths.

yes, bRAINS and other, have looked at history and presume that we eventually will get a fair deal.
WRONG!
Anyone who ever played at the boardgame "Monopoly", knows that the players start out even, but in the end all power is in the hands of one person.
That is the essence of the capitalistic system!
It is simple to experience: play the game and you learn, once again, that with capitalistic rules like that you are doomed!
The best anyone can hope for under such a system is a benevolent dictator/premier!
When more people suck shit here, we will be as upset as the inhabitant of the third worlds are
today!
They may say the rebel agains cartoons or whatever, basically they are furious seeing how North Americans live, while they starve!
When enough starve here, we will have our uprising.

$600.00 shoes? NOw that is going to generate a few cartoons.

Gloomy:
I don't presume anything, including success or failure, other than to contest tyrants or live with oppression and the results of inaction. And what do you suggest? Violence? War? French revolutions? What's your big plan. Al caida? FLQ? Bomb the TSE? And replace money with? These systems are flawed. But its all we have, and anarchy and chaos is the alternative. Check out nations without an economy and see how they live. Not saying living like an Amazonian indian isn't a bad thing, but its not what most people want. And it is a democracy. Sorry if elections aren't quick enough for you.

Jane666 said it best if your in a hurry. See a homeless person, take 'em in. See someone starving not by choice (and there aren't many), feed 'em. If your neighbor needs help, help 'em. If we all helped our neighbors, there would be no neighbors without help!

If you can't afford it, support the groups who can. They are out there human resources happen to count more than cash in many instances. Otherwise, I suggest you slow down, dude, and think. If you were to go all out for international causes to the middle east now without cover, you would likely get shot or kidnapped. Its not even safe to put yourself in a position to help them now. And while its some whitehouse butt lickers fault up here, for sure, it won't matter a hill of beans until the mountains of power change places. Thats just how it is.

Will I be as bitter as you with the U.S. if they are dumb enough to vote Republican again in the whitehouse and congress? Yup. And will I be severely disappointed to see Campbell win again? Yup. Will I be as bitter as you if Harper racks up a big huge bill like Mulroney did in 91 to blow up Iraqi's and Iranians? (and I was around to watch him spend 11.7 billion on blood money, feeling just like you) Yup!

But for as much as the NDP jacked up certain social programs and union wages in their tenure, they couldn't balance the budget and that costs this province in the long run. There's a reason why Campbell won the first election, never mind the second, and its the very ammunition Campbell needed to justify, however poorly and ignorantly, what he's done. There isn't much else to say about it, other than to replace both parties, if need be, or force them to run better canadates, or run yourself or join forces of another nature like the Greens, or do something besides bitch, because it won't make one bit of difference if it isn't constructive. Savy?

Hornswoggle. Shows you've been as hoodwinked as any. The NDP had a sound fiscal policy, and managed to accomplish it without abandoning the poor. Jacked up union wages? Where were you during their mandate?
Keep typing brain. And typing and typing and typing. Eventually you may exude more than platitudes, half-formed ramblings, and maudering drivel. Doubtful, but you may.

Maundering drivel. Thousands of words and nary a concise nor succinct thought among them. At least Ron Erwin was brief..

no, Gloomy, I sure don't presume we will get a fair deal, I've stated that clear 'nuff and got viciously rendered for my apocalyptic views in other discussions.

The reason the conservative reform alliance progressive right have all the money is because this is what they are focused on, a single unifying factor. They conformed to the club of rich. Their god is money, they worship their deity and their priests like Harper, Reynolds and Gordo make it happen.

And the fiscal episcol left, they have no such unifying factor, always arguing about the right way to say or to do things, chauvinistically miming the very people whose policies they say they hate. This was the hardest thing to accept, that dirty left wing politics goes on.

They were so arrogant they couldn't even keep it together at the municipal level, they get the prize, then publically argue like pigs at the trough. Larry Campbell whines and gets politically restructured, then I'm asked to vote for some american jabba the hut. Well, I know my DTES local history enough not to fall for that one. Vancouver could have been saved, once again, but the power mongers blew that one, once again. Will they ever learn? No.

What hurts the most is that you want to believe the left is working together for humanitarian/environmental reasons, but it isn't.

Just make plans for how you are going to live in the caves, cause the mighty right will have electric fences around their biosphere compounds.

Carol's shoes have a print on them that is a type of bit. This bit is used for putting into a horses mouth when riding. Her shoes represent pure crap straight from the horses mouth (sorry to all horses out there).

Really, I have never understood this shoe thing.

No, we shall not end up living in caves! but like say in Bogata the elite will helicopter into the slumcities landing on top of their officetowers, and then helicopter back to their secured estates.
There will be mindless drivel pouring from our tv sets, and some moviestar/premier will tell us that all is well!
Sorry folks i do not have a simple solution!
I could suggest you quit voting for personalities (who are bought for their charisma) and try to look at each party's platform instead!
I lost my faith in the system when I was about 17, and that is many, many elections ago.
Still i vote for the NDP, since it is the least offensive of the choices while still having a workable program.
I understand the greens, and know that should they by some miracle gain power, they would have no idea what to do.
Hey you keep pushing for new candidates to a party that should die in peace; and i ask why do you bother? what need do we have for 2 conservative parties?
Those libs try to occupy the "middle ground" not realizing that the middle class soon will disappear altogether! that party is as obsolete as our system is.
Am i proposing anarchy?
Nope, we will all wait for the Chinese to own everything (as in Monopoly) and then it is too late to even worry.

The US will never allow the Chinese to own everything they would rather nuke the world first.

Armegeddon, salvation for the believers, a self fulflling prophecy expounded by both east and west religions almost certainly guarantees the end of times.

Rick

Then how do you square the $6 billion incentive ("negotiating framework") to union leadership & members to sign new contracts before they expire?

That's a $3,000 cheque for everyone woman who works in the public sector. Or a generous infusion into their pension funds (depending on how the union leaderships wants to do it - it'll be interesting to watch how they spin it).

Let's face it - it's a pay-off for biting the bullet through 2002-2004, meant to avoid any disruptions as we head up to the Olympics.

Tommymore:
Janet is quite correct. Both left and right (and its dangerous to steriotype, by the way) ideologies have their flaws. While Campbells special interests for the rich and corporate are as ugly to watch as MLA's and now MP's like Emerson fleecing this province, we can't assume the NDP did a stellar job running this country either. If we want to spend money on social programs however efficient or wasteful, we have to be able to pay for them.

We've got two extremes in this province. Two, not one. The NDP wants to reward their political contributers with wage hikes and swelling social programs and thats fine (if it ever was fine), but make sure you can afford to. Make sure the budget can be balanced! They ran up debt!

And the way the Liberals ran up so called surplus's to fund mega projects is in my opinion far uglier, but which do you prefer...

1) A province that runs deficits to no end, leaving future governments like Campbell to come in with the motive to slash every social program to the bone do drive up revenue for handouts to their rich friends with mega projects that we questionably need on a long term basis...

2) Handicap a good government from adequately spending on social programs because revenue's all going to interest rates from previous governments who ran deficits. (And we're not there yet)

3) A government that spends far more money than it should on social and environmental programs to make quadruple sure no one is left behind (and it still happens) with the result of endless deficits and leaving the future behind.

Janet666 couldn't be more right on everything she has said. Absolutely everything.

Get back to the article and read between the lines. What these professors are saying is that we the money to adequately spend on social programs "regardless of fat cat kick backs!"

And there are now two ways to go with it. Go for deficit reduction before Campbell's alchohol washed brain decides to blow it on more fat cat perks, or pressure Campbell with a lot of heat to spend on social programs that need it desperately. In other words, if this blowhard wants to take credit for all that goes well in this province, he can do more than reduce government expenditures and lay people off. He can start hiring workers again, put money where its needed and actually govern and if he can't deliver with a government that can actually govern, then he soundly deserves to be replaced because British Columbians deserve better.

Marjorie and Seth put it to us nicely. They put it to us in ways that are logical. We've got the money for all of it. So whats to stop you, or I or anyone who wants changes by taking this nice logic and use it in practical terms that aren't so nice and logical to Campbell?

nightbloom:
Some of those workers who were lucky enough to not get fired, wound up sacrificing 15% of their wages for 2 years!
A $3000 'bonus" amount to about half of what they sacrificed for our economy!
What is so great about that?
Many have had to take on a second job to keep their houses.
And now they are supposed to be happy presented with "the carrot and the stick" option?
Gordo tried to make believe they all were dishwashers and overpaid, why not read the classifications and you will learn that many have extensive professional training and are making considerably less than the norm for their skills.
These people carried the can for two years, don't you dare belittle them!

Nightbloom:
Do you seriously think women won't get hosed in the new agreements? This article is brilliant in ways beyond our current levels of understanding. I looked at a teachers article on Jan. 26th of this year on the Tyee and the article was on strikes and pay cuts. Gender pay inequality wasn't even mentioned. It wasn't on anyones radar. The two most important themes, seat load and pay were talked about, but pay inequality didn't make the cut.
You might talk about $3,000 cheques and pensions, but pensions are based on salaries and gender pay inequality is based on sex. And Campbells proposal is either a quick fix, or a direct bribe. So whats going to change?

We've got posters demanding that inequality is justified since men die more than women on the job and are women working beside them cutting down tree's? Nope. They teach. They administrate. They serve the public and they have a right, same as any man to be paid just as fairly for the work they do. Or does some dummy want to come out with how men do better than women in absolutely everything, or how since women have children and need leaves of absence, they should be paid less...

Where have unions been in fighting for equality all along with this? I highly doubt that women are running the unions. Its more "thinking inside the box". And what business do unions have in contributing to political parties to begin with? (and no, I'm not about to debate this one forever, go to Lib leadership, and you'll see it all there)

These are major points that in my opinion, can't be logically defended. Things have changed. We allow women to vote now. We finally recognize them as being human. Women get to work for a living. Maybe we should finally start paying them their fair share, don't you think?

Gloomy - I didn't belittle them at all. Not sure what you're reading. I acknowledged up front that they've had to bite the bullet over the past several years.

The only thing I'm cynical about is what the union leadership is going to do with this opportunity. That's where the "pay-off" is going to occur.

I don't think the union leadership will opt to send its membership cheques. Remeber: its their discretion what happens with this money. This is money that will be squirrelled away someplace inaccessible.

The reason, Gloomy, is to balance the power of two extremes. When two extremes like the NDP and the Libs go unchecked with majority rule, what we've got is what we will continue to get. Things have to change. The NDP and the Liberals how shown little to no signs of it. So for as rookie ville and possibly inept the Greens could potentially be, there is absolutely no risk of them ever forming a government. But! The rewards of them being a part of one would be tremendous if they hold the balance of power.

As you say, platforms need to be realized. The platforms of the Greens do rub off on the the yellow and red, and thats what were hoping for federally and provincially. But to say the Greens should fold in their infancy is to say the Libs should have folded, or the NDP should have folded or the Socreds should have folded. This makes no sense, unless you ran the PC's like Mulroney and then, well, you should have folded.

Outside of political party nametags... Names don't count for much these days. Liberals had a reputation for being moderate or "in the middle". Where is it now? And if Campbell would have had character, never mind a boozer personality, we would have individuals that follow their platforms more closely. Is Campbell following his? Look into it, and you'll see why things are never really "as they seem."

Their platform states:

http://www.bcliberals.com/media/BCLIB_PlatformBook.pdf

1) Make BC the best educated, most literate jurisdiction on the continent.

2) Lead the way in healthy living and physical fitness

3) Build the best systems of support in Canada for persons of disabilities, special needs, children at risk, and seniors.

4) Lead the world in sustainable, environmental management with the best air and water quality, and the best fisheries management - bar none.

5) Create more jobs in Canada than anywhere else in Canada.

And finally, if you keep reading, you'll be bombarded with numbers that can and should be contested. If you believe them, you'll vote for them, as it is a bombardment of all the good things they've done. Growing numbers... its called a growing population and tax base. What is the mean average? The average tells all, so these numbers are a misrepresentation of truth. And whats missing is the bad things. The unneeded cuts. The fat cat spending perks. The wasted money in muli-billion dollar one time transits to whistler that we'll never need after the Olympics are over.

They have 8 to 9 years now, to fulfill those 5 promises and if they don't, I'm sure BC citizens will hold them to their failed standards.
And for what? A political party that is run by unions? We don't need unions running this province. We need unions running unions, and governments actually governing instead of cutting their way out of their responsibility to do so. And in this political climate, I don't care if the Greens can do much more than tie their own shoes, because, "in my opinion" neither the Libs or the NDP are yet entirely fit to govern. But hey! Thats just my opinion. Its why were here. Its what we do.

ok, nightbloom you picked up on somebody else's tread, I apologize if we actually see things the same way.
The point is that the $3000 bonus is only about half of what they already have lost!
The unions negotiators have the opportunity to try to distribute whatever crumbs are offered so the hardest hit hopefully gets some relief.
Negotiators are there to negotiate, not to screw the members; i am sure they will take exception to your hint they are corrupt.

Nightbloom:
I know were not far apart on this. Just so you know that I know. ;-)

well brain, i could repost my writings, and maybe you would read it differently this time?
You keep harping on history, i look at the overall picture, not to the next election but how this chapter will end!
Unless we change drastically, the Monopoly game will end with China owning it all! (no, USA will not nuke anyone, they just have their military so Bush's friends can profit.)
We will all survive, because the elite needs consumers to keep their games going!
However we will see less variation and choices in said consumer goods, as there no longer is a need to worry about competition!
Hitler showed the way around 1936 when he declared that in the name of effeciency only a few vehicles types were to be built.
This will re-occur as is happening in Europe as we speak, certain regions will be deemed to grow certain veggies and their particular crop is what everyone have to accept.
This is not about petty issues like me choosing to care for a homeless person, it is the planet we talk about!
On our level it is time for a true coalition government! if you feel the greens or libs have any reason for being, hey vote for them!
What counts is that there is no time left for parties that only exist for the purpose of sniping and backstabbing!
If we are to avoid going down the drain, then forget splitting hairs as to who is more conservative or more left leaning.
Forget charisma and spindoctors. Once again: read the platforms and vote accordingly

I actually think the BC NDP has a chance, if they could get rid of the boys who play lose, loose and fast with our lives. If you think that Vancouver politics has nothing to do with it, I would like to tell a story about one little part of the good old days.

Harry went down to humiliating defeat. His foul mouth had cooked his goose and new supporters like us were embarrassed, but forgiving, as we knew his curmudgeonly heart was in the right place. I never understood why Libby hadn't run for mayor, we could have got her elected.

The Cope executive was big in those days, we had 25 to 30 people sitting around the table. In our first meeting after the election, we debriefed, almost everyone there was a grass roots activist so we had a lot of detail. It was all recorded, everyone took notes handed in to one of our most trusted to be made into one list.

At the next meeting we were told by the management committee that we didn't need the list, that plans for Cope were already made. Many of the elders spoke against this, Libby supported the committee, I quit Cope and left the meeting. The next election, many of the grass roots were missing and many of the elders did not take part, some were very angry. Libby didn't suffer too badly, she got a job with the HEU.

But this was just the story on top of the other one. There were battles within the Civic NDP, the NDP fighting amongst themselves, knowing that control in Vancouver is enormous power. Some of us in Cope had been approached by a grass roots civic ndp, with an idea of a merger. Remember, up to now Cope had been a serious left wing workers party and included communists.

Being pragmatic anarchists, we had thought there was enough of us core copers to keep a balance. Which is why I say "beware the Jabberwocky, my son", politics is a deep ocean of intrigue and machinations as vast as the depths of all the minds who mingle in this battle. We didn't count on their agents being used by them and of course, just bare faced lies.

During the last Vancouver civic election the media were always going on about cope lite and cope classic, but that wasn't it at all, it was ndp bc lite serious civic against cope classic. Seriously, who do you think the 4400 were, who voted against Jim Green in the last election? And don't tell me they all just got the name confused.

Gloomy - Unions are just as prone to corruption as any other closed bureaucracy with large sums at its disposal. I'm just not playing favourites here - unions are susceptible to the same basic set of flaws as any other "corporation".

But I'm not necessarily saying they'll handle this corruptly. But if you polled the membership now you'd probably get a huge majority who would rather see the cash right now. But that's not going to happen. That's just too altruistic. This money is going to be processed through the established legitimate skimming mechanisms, and its disbursement will be delayed as long as possible.

I'm just waiting to see which province reduces their PST to match the federal reduction in the GST. "Six for Six" would make a great election mantra for any party.

Gloomy:
Firstly, I must correct myself. The NDP balanced their last two budgets.

Aside from this, China's distant future invasion and the yellows biblically ruling this world for a day is a big leap from this provinces immediate future problems, especially with the neighborhoods problems down the street. You might see China coming. I might. But what do we do until then, in our own back yard? This article deals with British Columbia's politics and gender equality in particluar. Dont cha worry, an article on world politics will soon come.

As for coalitions, they don't form with majorities. Am glad that you'll allow me to vote for someone other than the NDP to do otherwise, if need be, but hey. We've got 3+ more years before we have to make our minds up as to how to go about it, alot can happen and in truth, I haven't made my mind up how I'll go until I can at least see the candidates running in my riding! This might make a difference, yah know? Other than to say that there are no perfect parties coalitions work just fine with me. Thats my vote. Today. But the polls are years away.

Continue to like your posts, Janet666. We so often refuse to see it from other points of view other than our own and thats why we fail. Anyways, enjoy your day, all, I just became very buzy. :-)

Nightbloom:
Agree with everything you've said, except the mantra. These taxes are to address deficits. Without them, our provinces and country would spin back towards them. If the Fed Con nonsense goes on long enough, we'll see red ink again. One federal GST point is 12.5 to 13.5 billion dollars in revenue without added expenses. Martin socked away 16 Billion for "emergencies". Once that's burned up by the Cons in the first year assuming they'll get a budget passed and assuming they'll last longer than a year, and I'm assuming a snap election with Paul Martin running again myself, things will change, likely back to the way they were, but its hard to say. Paul is 67, the majority of Canadians don't want him there... but they don't want Harper either. Look for a Lib minority before years end, and if I'm wrong, I'll live with it. Its just my opinion. And sometimes its all we got. Later.

They've gotta pick a leader first...and then that leader has to fix the party. It's too early to tell yet, but this current minority may simply be the initial stepping-stone for the Conservatives.

The Feds could afford to do it, because they're the winning tier in the taxation framework. But if any provincial government can do it (leaving out Alberta, of course) it's BC.

What if Carole James announced tomorrow that she was adopting the 6-for-6 parity as party policy?

This discussion jumps from provincial to federal politics, and i take it to its ultimate form the global view!
BC is very much depending on how the world fares, for instance: the Clark government faced a tough world economic period, even if many refuse to admit it.
"think global work local" is only relevant if the global policy is worthwhile.
Unfortunately the UN fails to fill the bill.
In the final analysis we need international political parties, where the local citenzens appreciate they are lost without their neighbours!
It really is irrellevant which parrot/leader the Liberals (federally) choose, because by now we should all know that the voice behind the scenes belong to multinational corporations who only care where they can fit Canada into their schemes.
Sorry to disillusion you folks, Canada is not that important, and BC even less so in the overall scheme of things

Nightbloom: with a drop in corporate taxes? Not much.
Gloomy: You make some good points. Clark had less equalization payments and lower commodity values. Even though the dollar was lower, Clarks environment was more difficult.

I agree that we need a certain level of world government to keep the peace, more than anything, but also to keep banks from becoming foreign owned along with multinationals being kept at very low percentages, with higher taxation on these corporations. Neither will happen with the UN.

As far as leaders and parrots go, we have a parrot in power now, maybe several, but true leaders are definitely not parrots. We need one desparately with the Libs. I keep hoping to be surprised. When the ulimate sellout comes, I'll probably take my old flag, take the way the dutch and fly it in Peru, but until that time, little old BC is what I call home, and thats important enough to me. ;-)

You guys keep missing the point, the government doesn't run things, the corporation does, it already owns everything, so we won't be overrun by anything that isn't already in place.

I love those conspiracy theories like, "John Lennon was murdered by the FBI/CIA because he was a threat as a peacemaker/leader". The theory is right, anyway, which is what I've tried to tell you with the lesson of Operation Solidarity and the agents of the corporation. They don't want us to successfully organize or create alternative economic structures.

We need to know how to pierce the fat white belly of the corporation without creating more hardship for those that already suffer enough. The unions are trapped inside the belly of the beast, they have learned to adapt and build a protective wall around themselves. They are afraid to destroy the beast, they depend on it for their survival, and they do pretty nasty things to anyone who threatens this status quo.

Take these discussion boards for instance. Say anything out of flavour and instead of further discussion or saying anything new, they start calling you names and making nasty personal insults. One minute you're in a discussion, the next there is a deranged rotwieller in front of you. What's up with that? eh.

Attack political parties or politicians who expect it, but why colleagues with whom you are dialoging. If you don't like the content ignore it and move on to what you want to say. Does it have to be a viciously personal arguement in order for it to be a "good" discussion? Unless.....

Union bosses. You know, for instance, that one whose body they never found. Union history is as full of corruption and scandal as anything else. How many memorable boss names can you think of who wasn't totally corrupt? So the rule is, while good union workers are putting their butts and bucks on the line, they are being sold out. It only takes one really corrupt bastard to ruin the work of thousands.

Better watch out brain, if their words were actions, allan, tommymore, bcmary and that other guy will be getting their big guts into their new trucks with the gun mount, coming to get us.

Good comment janet 666, we must try to be polite!
Now, please lay off on belittling all union activity!
Certainly there have been bad apples, but there are more safeguards these days, and members are able to ask questions without fear of being killed.
How would you go about improving workers rights without unions?

GENDER FAIR BUDGET ???

ISN'T TAYLOR A WOMAN/FEMALE...NOT A MALE ???

THOSE $600.oo shoes remind me of IMELDA MARCOS...

TAYLOR SHOULDA BEEN WEARING COMBAT BOOTS...EVERY BLOODY FINANCE MINISTER SHOULD BE MADE TO WEAR COMBAT BOOTS WHEN ANNOUNCING THE BUDGET.....

AND MAKE SURE THE BOOTS ARE THREE SIZES TOO SMALL...SO THE WILL BE REMINDED OF HOW THEY SUEEZED US TO GET THAT MONEY ,THEY SO FREELY GIVE TO THEIR FRIENDS...

WOMEN ...NEED ONLY LOOK AT SISTERS LIKE TAYLOR TO SEE WHY THEIR LOT IMPROVES ONLY MARGINALLY...

WHEN PIGS LIKE TAYLOR ARE AT THE TROUGH ...YOU AIN'T GETTIN ANYTHING SISTERS...

LOOK HOW SHE FED AT THE CBC............ALL THEM YEARS...............................

I would love to respond gloomy, but I do so at the risk of having my throat ripped out by one of the good old boys. I can only speak from my own experience, I haven't been 'larned' like most of you university educated people. You asked a pretty loaded question.

I think we should be building more communal structures to improve everyones rights, mothers, children as well as workers. We waste a lot of time politically organizing instead of getting down to the real business of building a safe infrastructure for those at risk.

It always ends up being about men, theory, power instead of poverty, ignorance and lets not forget, the environment which allows us to live rich and meaningful lives when we live in harmony with it.

Union activity? No members don't get killed anymore, that we know of, they just get ostracized, you know, shunned.

So I guess I did respond, gloomy, in spite of my trepidation.

and that from the inimitable Wallace

Yes, i agree the governments only are puppets, however things will change!
Big-box stores will eat up any competiton and each other to the point we shall have one store for us poor shits, and one for the elite!
Selection will be restricted as they no longer need to provide a dozen choices in toothpaste......where else would we go for an alternative?
Most likely it will all be owned by some powerbroker from Asia, so, yes things will change, and it may not take all that many years!
sorry to be "gloomy"

Excellent goals, how do we get funds out of the feds? Co-op housing has grund to a standstill! The only "communal structures" you will see built will be for that f*** Olympics!
Provincially we will get to pay for BC Hydro's next expansion, while we are being told of its huge profits over the years?
Face it there are no funds for social programs with the governments we have voted in.
Besides Janet 666, even if all that happened, then the workers would still need to be represented fairly!
The question was: what is your alternative to unions!
We do not kick out the police forces because they have crooks in them, nor should we eliminate unions!
Like everywhere else there is a need for oversight, and it is being implemented.

Gloomy (and everyone else):
I don't think that getting rid of unions is what Janet666 has in mind here. Get rid of unions, corporations, organizations, institutions, only an anarchist relishes this thought. Organization and education is how we got here, to this place. But what is our cirriculm? What are we educating ourselves with now? This is Janets message.

Janets frustration is not uncommon or new. We see the same frustration every day from those who are at conflict with religious cults, dangerous or otherwise, conflict with political parties, corporations, organizations of any kind that go beyond the second ugliest ideological proclamation of all. "Our way is better than all the rest." Ah, so filled with pride(before the fall), but there is one worse. "Our way is the only way." This last, militant, extreme, rigid, control freak philosophy, combined with the second and a complete refusal to see it from anyone elses view other than their own, is what is killing this world today.

The ideology that pursues success "at everyone elses expense" is what is destroying our environments and the life needed to substain all life for the generations to come. It is this abomination this is destroying us.

Some corporations and organizations, and unions, and churches, and governments and their parties, and at the very least the individuals within them do not share this twisted self serving ideology. And some do.

Show me a party or a union, or an organization, or a government party, any party, a church, a religion and their collective leaders that will some day fall or be stained by individuals with self interests through the ravages of time, and I'll show you a fake. A placebo. There isn't a system, a party, an ideology however pure, that isn't prone and often tarnished if not destroyed by the humans that lead or follow them.

I don't care what organization anyone belongs to, or what flag they fly. They are all prone to self interests whether its top down, down top, or both. That's just how it is, and its time we realized it, and took a good long look at ourselves in the mirror. Do you believe in a mirage?

Correction:
Show me a party or a union, or an organization, or a government party, any party, a church, a religion and their collective leaders that will (it should be won't) some day fall or be stained by individuals with self interests through the ravages of time, and I'll show you a fake.

I grew up believing in a strong, integral, brilliant man by the name of Tommy Douglas. The NDP of the last 25 years, broke my heart, destroyed my beliefs.

As the brain said, I'm not after elimination. I want to see more communication between the grass roots/people and the unions which will address some basic societal needs that up to now have been pretty much ignored because everyone is too engrossed in the mud wrestling of politics.

The point of Operation Solidarity was to bring everyone together. And what happened? We got sold out by the corruption in the unions. What happened to a socially based government in Vancouver? We got sold out by the NDP. And I'm not advocating for the greens.

What we are supposed to do is shut up and keep quiet, while the result of all that power mongering is more dead women and children. Its like the sacred cows allowed to walk and eat unchecked in the market place.

I'm not talking about alternatives. The unions want our support when they go out on strike, fine they've got it, but what do the non-union poverty line people get in return? Even those ?#$%&* Shriners have figured this one out, they do the charity work.

I'm talking about a better solidarity, not just to give the unions a pay raise and job security, but one that reaches into the community, builds that housing and provides a hot lunch and/or breakfast for children. Solidarity for social change; but there are too many right wingers (greedy bastards) in the unions for that to happen.

If we worked together, we could eliminate this government overnight, but there is too much under the covers, too much fear to change the agenda.

As I said before gloomy, we're doomed.

I'm ready, you can start the stoning.

Your post works for me, Janet666.
;-)

It is a great feeling to be on a picket line or in a mass demonstration! solidarity abounds.
Then there are the days following the event, when all we can hope for is that the media gives us decent coverage and our leaders do not get wayled.
Now everyone crawls into their own personal shell, and worries about their own families.
Solidarity becomes a word again.
Been there, done that!
Like it or not, we need to get people to vote and get non-voltures elected!
Tommy Douglas was such a man!
There are more, but they are reluctant to waste their lives on a feeble population.
When the average Joe can switch his affiliation overnight, only a fool would want to stake his career on becoming a poiltician!
When a guy who struggles to make end meet thinks that Harper is his friend, that speaks volumes about our voters sophistication.
Basically we are getting what we deserve for being so stupid!

brain and gloomy,
we wayfarers shall meet, sometime, someplace...

It is very heartening to not only read such a great article, with both optimistic and real ways to move forward, but to have it followed with such well thought out comments. Thank you all for not succombing to the idiocies I often read after Tyee articles on budgets & spending (where did Ron go?). I can't wait for an election, I just can't wait to see Gordo OUT.

I agree I said as soon as I heard the budget they were underestimating the surplus. I think they do it for another reason besides looking good at end of year. They do it because of all the contract talks coming up. I am a HEU member and a LPN who has increased her education and responsibilities in the workforce. For doing that I was rewarded with a 15% wage cut one year and no raise the next year. Now the government thinks I should be happy with a signing bonus and 1.5% a year for 4 years. I say no way. The caucus thought they were worth 15% raise so I deserve at least that. That only brings me back where I should be and in my eyes is not a raise at all.

good point Tricia 58!
Deliberately underestimating the surplus gives them an "excuse" to not make up for the 15% losses over 2 years!
And it is ironical thet they figured there was enough money for a 15% RAISE for themselves!
They are provoking workers! maybe they are looking forward to a challenge?
I say a general strike is in the offing!