I think it will either be an NPA majority, or a Vision/COPE majority.

But even if their is a high voter turn out, it doesn't mean Jim Green will benefit from it. COPE members are pissed off at Vision.

The NPA is good for around 40,000 votes.
COPE is good for around 30-35,000 votes.

Vision might be able to get 20,000 votes from the middle. (Only because their trying to get people who support Larry Campbell)

So if COPE/Vision voters join together, they will have a majority, but I do not think it will happen.

So put me down as saying, it will be an NPA majority.

I know I'm not going to get elected as Mayor of Vancouver, but just for the record:

I want to get rid of the Safe Injection Site, the needle exchange, the NAOMI project, and instead have treatment centers.

Putting addicts in treatment will help them re-start their lives, because while in treatment, they will be getting counseling, and will be put into housing when they leave, and then will either get help finding a job, taking some sort of training, or going back to school.

So the Safe Injection Site is just a place to go shoot up, so they can continue their problem, not help them.

And when they want their next fix, they will have to commit crimes like brake and enters, and auto-thefts to buy their drugs, therefore keeping drug dealers around.

Scott Yee,
Mayoral Candidate
centralparty.ca
Look under Municipal Election for my platform

Scott, doesn't this statement that you just made provide a sussinct reason to include safe injection sites and needle exchanges in a well-rounded strategy to this problem?

Funny, not a word about the big, fat pay raise our Esteemed MLAs voted themselves yesterday. Censorship by omission? Could it be because our lily-white, holier-than-thou, we know better than you Lefites also voted for it, to a one?

Odd, isn't it?

It only happened yesterday, and it was a surprise. I don't think The Tyee has a fulltime reporter at the Legislature.

I think we'll see a Vision dominated council in Vancouver. The NPA seems to be an issue-less bunch this time around.

Brilliant insight Working Man! It's been commented on a couple of times in another thread and this article has nothing to do with the shameful raise for MLAs (Liberals and NDP alike).

Working man, while not happy with the opposition on this issue for obvious reasons, I have a heck of a lot more tolerance for the NDP giving themselves a raise and pension benefits, because they are fighting for everyone to be treated fairly and with respect.
The Liberals, who rewrote labour law, took away overtime, and actively fight to dis-empower the citizens who are workers in this province and take away money and welfare from the very poorest while entering into sales and suspect deals with multi-nationals with assets they are entrusted with and do NOT own, well, that's another issue entirely.

There's irony that the BC LIberals give themselves a generous package while taking from the citizens. It just doesn't translate to the NDP who want all citizen and workers treated fairly and fight for a living wage for all people.

Here and south of the border, progressives need to realize that they will always get fleas when they lay down with these people. I'm sorry the NDP didn't listen to those who thought this was a bad idea. There must have been at least a few.

I have no idea where the public stands on this election. I will be a voting cope and vision slate.

I am not happy with Vision. Really and truly I am not. I am not willing to risk the city from going from the frying pan to the fire however.

the thought of carole james giving herself a raise makes me puke. didn't she hide during the teacher's strike?

mayor green has good ring to it as long as he does what larry tells him to from the senate chamber.

I have a suggesting for All Holier than Thou NDPer MLAs:

Go to Hastings and Main and give your self voted raise, in cash, to the people there you claim to champion. Just make sure they promise to spend it on food, clothing and shelter.

No! As I said before, the safe injection site is just a place to shoot up, it will not help them!

Putting their asses in detox will! And they should be forced to stay in treatment, or kick their asses out of our city!

As for the MLA pay raise....

Municipal Salaries Code
Put on the ballot, the salaries for mayor and city councillors, so only the voters can decide on how much they can make

And maybe if the mayor or a city councillor is re-elected, they get a 3% increase in their salary, per term

The only other way to do it, would be to pay a person what they made in the private sector, but there would have to be a minimum and a maximum salary the mayor and a city councillor could make

For mayor, the minimum salary would be 100,000 a year, and the maximum salary would be 250,000 a year

For city councillor, the minimum salary would be 50,000 a year, and the maximum salary would be 125,000 a year
And there still might be a 3% increase in salary, per term

Scott Yee,
Mayoral Candidate

and while you're at it, remember that the NPA was the party of Gordon Campbell for years. It may show a gentler face with Sam Sullivan, but its underpinnings likely haven't changed.

Ahhh... getting back to the election, voters should take the time to look at the Straight's comprehensive assessment of Lower Mainland candidates. It's a valuable resource, available online as well as in the paper.

Of course, it reflects the strong opposition of key Straight editorial staff to council's support for the RAV line and slots, which is why the endorsements are completely free of Vision candidates. TransLink's funding commitment to the RAV line is hugely problematic. It's very hard for anyone preaching sound fiscal management to support it , and it's ironic that those who opposed it because it's a potential financial boondoggle are considered spendthrifts.

Slots are a more ambiguous issue for me. I think a great civic institution, the Hastings Park Racecourse, would have withered and died without them. And while gambling has significant social costs, I also sometimes find myself at odds with the contradictory moral puritanism of the left. Are five percent of the people who go to bars alcoholics? Does their ubiquity enable them? How about a safe gambling site, with treatment available? I don't like slots and find casinos creepy. But I have slight libertarian tendencies.

If all the high-minded Straight stuff is more than you can handle, it’s also worth reading Steve Burgess’s current election column in the Westender. It’s his funniest column in a while, and also contains some sharp observation about the backward-looking nature of the campaign.

Sorry Scott, I certainly appreciate independent candidates, but the "drug issue" is one of your main concerns but I really think that you line of logic is faulty. You admit that drug users will do anything to get their next fix - i.e. commit a crime. Yet you want to take away the one avenue they have to obtain their fix that doesn't involve busting into a car or a home or robbing a little old lady. "Chuck 'em into detox!" Yes, I agree, let's get them into detox programs, but that's only part of the solution. I think that what really gets me is that you want to kick their asses out of the city if they do not compete the detox program; to me, that shows you really don't have a full understanding of the problem. It's a lot more complicated than you make it out to be.

"putting their asses in detox will! And they should be forced to stay in treatment, or kick their asses out of our city!"

Right, and while we're at it let's get rid of the alcholoics, and smokers, too.

Wait, there's also gambling addicts, food addicts, the sex addicts...

I liked Grumpys' description of Sam Sullivan,

"If SamwiseSullivan get in, the city bureaucrats will get their own way."

Actually, I came across an interview he did with XtraWest and had the same view. Mr Sullivan doesn't seem to understand that it is the politicians that create policy and it us up to the bureaucrats to interpret and enforce. He repeatedly fell back into the mantra that he would follow staff recomendations as though this would be protection against a bad or ill-informed position taken by staff. I do not view Sullivan as much of a leader rather he appears to be more of a follower.

Green and Sullivan and their respective parties have both pandered to the anti-freeway, anti-Gateway, anti-Port Mann vote. Which politically is really just a case of pandering to Vancouverites condescending, even sneering attitude towards "the burbs", where all the second class citizens, the "bridge and tunnel people" live.

That the NPA was thinking of running a bridge and tunnel person in Christy Clark was one of the more amusing episodes of the year.

Over the next several years the Gateway/Port Mann set of highway and bridge projects are going to be by far the biggest issues in the Lower Mainland's history. This election is just the beginning.

This time, it won't cut much either way in Vancouver since both candidates plumped for a vote no posture. Still, given Green's dependence on construction trades, he's risking more than Sullivan.

In Surrey, I expect that the popular demand for these projects will succeed in reelecting Doug McCallum, who would other wise have lost. And I expect that in Burnaby Derek Corrigan's opposition to Gateway and Port Mann will turn his usual easy margin into a squeaker or even a loss.

It would appear that the folks at Vision are more than a little worried (particularly in light of the Georgia Straight’s endorsment of Sam Sullivan). In a close election, a few votes could make all the difference. The Tyee has referred to the James Green controversy before, and judging by the email below, Vision is taking it seriously. This was sent out from the Vision headquarters today:

It’s Jim Green, Vision Vancouver for Mayor

In case you haven’t heard, there’s an impostor running for mayor. So on Election Day make sure you vote for the real Jim Green for Mayor.

It’s JIM Green, Vision Vancouver.

Who knows why the impostor is there. He did get an office from a big Sam Sullivan supporter and that office was in the same complex as Sam Sullivan’s suite of offices. But Sam claims he has no connection to the impostor.

No matter how it happened, it’s still a significant risk to the real Jim Green. And Vancouver. If the impostor takes enough votes through name confusion, Sam Sullivan could end up mayor.

We can’t turn back the clock to the bad old days of neglect and cuts under the NPA. Do not mark your ballot for the impostor, James Green.

Look for the real JIM Green along with his party name - Vision Vancouver. That’s number 8 on the Ballot: Jim Green, Vision Vancouver.

And don’t forget the rest of the Vision Vancouver team: Heather Deal, Raymond Louie, Tim Stevenson, Heather Harrison and George Chow.

PLEASE FORWARD THIS TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW!!!!!!!!!

My "logic" is faulty?

Yet you want to take away the one avenue they have to obtain their fix that doesn't involve busting into a car or a home or robbing a little old lady. "

Thats what you said! The NAOMI project only has a hand full of people trying it.

Guess what! They are braking into people's homes and cares!

As for kicking their asses out of the city if they do not compete the detox program.

They should be forced to stay in detox for 1 year.

If they go back to using drugs again, then 2 years.

If the provincial/federal governments, will not allow them to be put into detox, then yes, move them to Burnaby!

Your clearly a left-wing person, who believe's the left-wing bullshit on safe injection sites!

Treatment! You all make treatment center's some sort of evil right-wing agenda...

boo...boo... the left say.....

Your all coo-coo for coco puffs!

Scott Yee,
Mayoral Candidate

Ah, and what would this camapign be without one last threatened lawsuit, this one by NPA schoolboard trustee (and former councillor) Don Lee against COPE. From the COPE press release, which came out at noon today (November 18):

Lee's comments were reported by Wong, an experienced communications person, fluent in Cantonese, Mandarin and English.

NPA City Council candidate Ronald Leung, NPA School Board candidate Shirley Wong and NPA Parks Commissioner Allan De Genova were also at the meeting.

According to the NPA's website, "..a key component of the NPA's Plan for a Better Vancouver, the drug strategy consists of several initiatives. It calls for the renewal of the NPA's commitment to the Four Pillars approach which includes prevention, treatment, enforcement and harm reduction."

The initial stages of the Four Pillars Plan were adopted by NPA Mayor Philip Owen in 1999. Lee was an NPA City Councillor from 1996 to 2002.

Scott, I don't know about you're logic is faulty, but your understanding of the Charter Rights and Freedoms leaves little be desired.

Good luck with that run for mayor, though... really.

ooops, should be, "don't know if your logic is faulty...."

The absence of hard numbers leading up to this election is driving me crazy.

(and I know about the NPA's 'internal' polling)

Why?

Because I wanna know who's at the top of the Cope and Vision slates so that I know who to lop off so that I can make my independent/outsider choices.

So, I thank Mr. Campbell for his opinion that Fred Bass is at the top of the Councillor slate. That means I can leave him off to go with Kevin Potvin.

Now, can anybody give a serious handicapping of the Schoolboard race because, come hell or highwater, I'm voting for Andrea Reimer.

Thanks.

RossK
http://pacificgazette.blogspot.com/

.

Ok verso, do you really think its ok for people who are on crystal meth, to be walking around on the streets, homeless?

And if you do, tells me two things about you.

1) you do not care to help those on drugs. Yes, they do need help, and will not get it by the likes of you!

2) you do not care about living in a safe city. You could be walking around downtown, and someone on drugs could attack you, but hey, you think its ok.

If they were put in prison in the first place, this wouldn't be a problem.

20 years for B&E's, and 5 years for auto-thefts, and we wouldn't be talking about this.

But I guess to you, putting them in prison would be against the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

Can't wait for a Conservative minority government. Its about time we have some tough laws in this country!

Scott Yee,
Mayoral Candidate

Well Scott Yee, what can I say. You've quoted me out of context and you've very wrongly spun what I said into something false. Maybe you would make a good politician. Here's why I question your logic by evidence of reductive fallacy - and I'll be repeating myself a bit here. You want to take away needle exchanges and safe injection sites but admit that when an addicted person wants to get a fix, they will (generally speaking) commit a crime. Do you not think, Scott, that if that person had a safe place to go, then that may mean one less crime committed? That's the question I'm looking for you to answer.

Unfortunately, you continue your string of fallicious reductive reasoning by insinuating that because I support a well-rounded approach to the problem that includes safe injection sites, etc., that I must be against treatment centres. That is not something I said Scott. Being a mayor means that you are going to have to listen very carefully to your opponents when they take a position contrary to yours.

Furthermore, you take an even lower road and go for the ad hominem attack. I could go on Scott, but Verso's already pointed out a little thing called the Charter of Rights and Freedoms to you. So, for now, this lefty will leave it at that. Ciao.

"Ok verso, do you really think its ok for people who are on crystal meth, to be walking around on the streets, homeless?"

Do not try to misrepresent my argument Scott Yee, Mayoral Candidate. My point was your idea, as you describe, wouldn't fly under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

It's been said that when it comes to addiction that it's the addict that has to want to help, I'm not sure forcing them to treatment would work despite the legalities.

Shipping drug addicts off to Burnaby, or where ever, is a crack-pot scheme that is not only illegal and heartless but would pit city against city, municipality against municipality.

And since you asked, it's not okay that drug addicts are out on the street, but I won't pretend to have all the answers.

The problem of drug addiction is going to take more than fear mongering and chest thumping. You may want to get back drawing the board.

Scott Yee - "If they were put in prison in the first place, this wouldn't be a problem."

... And as soon as they got out of prison they would commit more crimes to get drugs and you'd put them in jail again. You can't see the problem here? Ever think that it may be actually cheaper to let them be homeless in the DTES and provide harm reduction strategies? How expensive is it to keep someone in jail? I'm shocked you haven't suggested that we just kill them all. The problem would be gone then, eh?

Drug addiction is so clearly a health problem. The four pillars approach should be given some time to work. You are not going to solve the problems inherent to drug addiction, poverty, and homelessness in a few years.

Lucky for the people of Vancouver, Scott Yee will not be an elected official any time soon.

Just a note to all:

Please vote tomorrow!

I don't know about you, but I'm having fun with this deabte!

Do you even know what you're talking about?

How is having a place to go shoot up, going to stop cimes from being committed?

They have to commit crimes FIRST, to BUY their drugs, to go shoot up at the safe injection site!

Only the NAOMI project, provides free drugs, which they do it there, not at the safe injection site.

And the needle exchange hasn't slowed down the rate of aids, so its not working.

To Chris H:

So what? If a bank robber gets out of prison, and robs a bank again, he or she would go back to prison again.

I hope your not saying, that we shouldn't have prisons now?

And you think it would be better for them to be homeless?

Detox, housing, and either working, taking some sort of training, or going back to school, is the answer!

As for harm reduction. What are you talking about?

The only thing city council has done, is the safe injection site!

The other 3 pillars hasn't even been started yet.

How is providing a place to go shoot up, harm reduction?

Harm reduction is treatment! There is not treatment in this city, but the two old, small treatment center's downtown.

Newsflash:

I guess Comrade Carol got a call from her boss Jim Sinclair. Seems that she now wants Royal Assent on her Big Fat Raise, the one she voted for yesterday, witheld.

I am not sure which is worse: being a lacky or a hypocrite.

She is both and a flunky to boot.

To Verso:

I know about the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, and all I'm saying is, its either prison or treatment, your choice!

And when I ran for city council back in 2002, I only wanted to force those who commit crimes, into detox, but I changed my mind.

I have, and still agree that when it comes to addiction, that it's the addict that has to want to help.

But their not going to prison, beause of judges (now the attorney general of bc)wally opal.

So to at least deal with the problem, it has to be treatment.

Would you prefer they not go to prison, not be put in detox, but instead run around homeless, committing crimes?

And even if you think treatment is evil, at least I'm trying to help them, not keep them homeless, and on drugs!

On voting:

Tell everyone you know, becuase we do not have non of the above on the ballot, if they do not like any of the choice's on the ballot, just to write **** you on the ballot.

Anyone that doesn't vote, is a lazy bastard! They say, the reason why they don't vote, is becuase politican's are all bastards!

Well, do you really think sitting on your ass bitching, is going to change anything?

If so, why is Paul Martin such a ****?

If politican's were perfect, they would still say the same thing, why should I vote, their all the same, they will all do a good job!

Its when things go bad, that you have to vote!

Scott Yee,
Mayoral Candidate

The split will be quite large. COPE hardcore copes are furious at vision and refuse to give them anything.
Im also worried about James Green. There are to many unaware people who will ponder "hmm was it James green, or jim Green... umm, it was probably James, and I like the name James.."
PS: I saw a huge luxery bus go buy thats usually reserved for pop stars at 15,000 a day +, and it was James Green campaign bus?

Vision Vancouver is just the NDP in drag. Voting for them is just like voting for wet noodle Carole James!

When Larry Campbell sold out COPE for a senate seat (or was it a Liberal reward for supporting RAV) and created Vision Vancouver, he showed his utter contempt for the citizens of Vancouver. Green and Vision will do the same.

The problem with this election, there is truely very few politicians with any 'vision', rather just political wannabe's, desperate to suck at the political trough.

I agree with Charles Campbell that the final Vancouver result will be either an NPA or a Vision Vancouver-COPE council majority. But I must stress that not all of the COPE supporters will vote for Vision Vancouver candidates. Some will but a significant proportion won't! Such is the bitterness between VV and COPE members that neither Anne Roberts, Tim Louis or Fred Bass have endorsed any VV council candidates. So, the race will be close indeed. More importantly, there are no charismatic candidates for Mayor unlike in 2002. As a result, overall Voter participation will definitely decline from a high of 50% in 2002. While I'm certain that the final numbers will be more than the average figure of 35% in Vancouver, perhaps 40 or 42%--due to the closeness of the race--it will certainly fall and the NPA has a solid core of supporters and need only win a certain percentage of independent voters who are concerned with Crime or who want to shop at a Wal-Mart in Vancouver to gain 4 or 5 Council seats at least, if not more. Personally, I'm surprised that Mr. Campbell think Ronald Leung will get in while Kim Capri won't since Capri has a record of strong social work which should appeal to moderate COPE/VV supporters. But since I don't live in Vancouver, I bow to Mr Campbell's judgement.

In Surrey, I have the feeling that Mayor MacCallum is behind Dianne Watts because of the strength of anti-MacCallum feeling among the electorate here over his handling of transportation and Park issues, his secretive (mis)handling of the sex harassment allegations at City Hall, his 100% pro-development agenda and his public rejection of the GVRD Livability Plan. Even many of MacCallum's SET party members are disenchanted with the mayor and may vote for Watts, who is generally pro-development and an ex-SET member but someone who is widely seen as being more openminded to public input, and criticism, and more supportive of providing social services to the poor. MacCallum has now put anti-Watts Radio ads on CKNW--an action which speaks to some desperation on his part. If your opponent is behind, you usually try to avoid attacking him/her for fear of a voter backlash. By the Way, I note in this Friday's Surrey Leader Paper(surreyleader.com) that 4,950 people voted in the advance polls(including myself) in Surrey--a huge increase of 150% compared to the 2002 advance poll numbers of only 2,009. A significant increase in voter turnout usually means 1)that Surrey voters are highly engaged in this race and 2)an ominous sign that the incumbents(ie: MacCallum and his SET Councillors) are in some jeopardy. The 2005 Surrey election results may be a carbon copy of the 2002 Vancouver election results where a long dominant party(the NPA) was nearly wiped out due to massive voter anger and disenchantment. We'll see if this holds true on Saturday night.
Regards.

I think it'll be Sam Sullivan, unfortunately. I hope I'm wrong because I think he's a bit of a simpleton like Owen. I like Jim Green and will be voting for him. Cope/Vision majority on council I think. Cope majority on school board. NPA on parks board... my two bits. Cheers, J.

I'm on the outside of this too, looking in, I 'fess, but I like Grumpy's keep it simple analysis, and it's bang on as near as I can read the realpolitic of Vancouver from here. Like Grumpy, whose moniker I even like, I'm getting more and more cynical about this crew type, wherever they show themselves in the political and labour movement life of this province. And they are everywhere. They're so elbow deep in opportunist status quo politics, they are no longer credible as a serious force for change any longer. Really, just another shape shifter, paler version of "the system" itself, playing the good cop to the NPA's bad cop, jockeying for a more favourable place at the public trough.

It's what has come to pass for "the left" though, in these times. (No wonder, as Fait Lux opines from time to time, they are both viewed as manifestations of the same thing, that left and right have become irrelevant concepts. About which he is looking more and more correct too.) It's more and more like watching and listening to the duplicitous US Dems debating the Iraq war with the Repugnants.

Which, I guess, is about what we should expect as the whole country, led by BC and Alberta, slides south, up the braying arse of the Great Uncle.

If Vision is cross-dressing, why did Mr. Sullivan don the frocks with disgruntled way-lefters late in the week?

Perhaps Vision's strong move to the middle scares the heck out of the big money boys behind the NPA?

And perhaps what is really scary for them is the fact that a few of other big money boys (and Julia-type girls) have already jumped ship.

Me, I think it would be great if we had a full spectrum of folks elected at various levels.

Heck, it would be like, what - I dunno - ideological wards?

.

Off to vote. Should:

M:
Sam:

C:

Raymond Louie
Fred Bass
Ellen Woodsworth
Jamie Lee Hamilton
Ann Livingston
Bev Ballantyne
Kevin Potvin
Colleen Hardwick Nysted
Susan Antoine
Peter Ladner

Will Win:
M: Sam Sullivan
George Chow
Raymond Louie
Tim Louie
Ellen Woodsworth
PEter LAgner
Colleen Hardwick Nyested
Kim Capri
Susanne Antoine
Ronald Leung
????? -- Got to leave one seat open for an upset.

Any good gambler at Hastings Park places bets on a few different configurations. So here's another one, based on the premise that the NPA wins the mayor's chair, again with councillors by rank: Sullivan (NPA), trying to keep order among Ladner (NPA), Anton (NPA), Bass (COPE), Lee (NPA), Cadman (COPE), Louie (Vision), Hardwick Nystedt (NPA), Leung (NPA), Chow (Vision), Roberts (COPE).

Just got back from voting up at Voting Division 48 in Mount Pleasent and according to the workers there I spoke to, they say voter turnout is

"Very Heavy"

so much for people not giving a care about this election. That has to be good news for Vision Vancouver/Cope since, i'd assume, since Mt. Pleasent is so NDP-friendly, they would, in turn, be Vision-friendly. We'll find out soon enough.

Well, I might as well make fearless predictions so that you may laugh at me and my poorly-tuned analytical engine. This is who I think is gonna win and should not be taken as an endorsement of any sort.

Mayor: Green by a nose. Turnout is relatively high, which favours Green.

Council, more or less top-to-bottom:

Ladner -- broadest appeal amongst anyone running for council. Pulls votes from business, moderates, some greens.
Louis -- see under Rankin, Harry.
Chow -- cred with Chinese community.
Stevenson -- decency, incumbency.
Cadman -- well-spoken, reasonable in demeanour and in voting record
Leung -- wide exposure, hooks in Chinese community, strong campaign
Anton -- experience, visibility also has wider appeal than most in NPA
Louie -- quietly built up his rep.
BC Lee -- second time lucky despite weak campaign.
Deal -- squeaks in on parks experience, and cred with small-g greens.

Near the top, any of these could fill slots 9-10, but still in descending order of their schnces of squeaking in:

Capri
Bass
Nystedt
Jenkinson
Ball
Thompson
Roberts
Harrison

Light a candle to St. Jude:

Woodsworth
Maliha
Hamilton
Potvin
Everyone Else

I disagree with Charles about Anne Roberts's prospects; her anti-Wal-Mart stance will keep her in good stead with the anti-globalisation gang and the hard left, but surely that was the case in 2002, where she finished in the second flight of COPE councillors. I haven't seen much to indicate that her appeal will be broadened beyond that base. (Same goes for her neighbourhood activism, which she had some reutation for in 2002.) She, like the other COPEsters, is also burdened by low visibility thanks to the lack of a mayoral candidate. Fred Bass, one of the most decent people in city politics, suffers from having been tagged as a bumbler and as a sort of absent-minded professor who gets hung up on minutiae. I think this pushes his chances down to being an ouside shot.

Now for the hedge:
If Sullivan wins, I'd bet on a council of

Ladner
Anton
Louis
Leung
BC Lee
Chow
Stevenson
Louie
Capri
Nystedt or Jenkinson

Thanks Ian!

Now, that's the kind of thing we all were looking for from somebody that actually knows something (ie. as opposed to most of the mainstream waterheads out there).

Apologies, Mr. Campbell

Didn't mean to infer that you are a mainstream journo or someone with hydrocephalus....

'ideological wards'....lol....pretty good, ross!
mr. yee, you sound like geo. bush having a war on druggies , dismissing the geneva conventions. perhaps you should be locked up to cure you of your fascist 'values'.
the US is your kind of country. consider it, please.

Guess who's doin' her schtick over on the notsoGiant '98?

Not unexpectedly, Ms. Clark is still spinning, slamming Carol James.

Must admit, however, that she does know her Pol Talk.

.

No Vancouver results yet, but some for Surrey, Langley and a few other places.

early Vancouver....Vision doing well....Watts K.O. in Surrey...Corrigan wins Burnaby....

5377 to 4660 with 12 of 142 polls reporting. Green in the lead.

Lead widening for Green....Did Westsiders turn against the guy who cloaked himself in disaffected COPErs and called himself the progressive (Sullivan) and instead see a pragmatic centrist they could vote for in Green?

____
Running commentary at my place

http://pacificgazette.blogspot.com

.

2 points for Ross for using Pragmatic correctly, good for you :)

thanks very much....swing to Sullivan/NPA council....really poll dependent....Tieleman said it was recently Westside heavy.

.

This James Green guy is bloody well in play....last total #s I heard he's got ~5-7% of Jim Green's total....

.

Sullivan ahead by 900 votes with 32/142 Polls reporting

Is their still time for you to change your name to Samantha Sullivan?

.

i've never liked that name to be honest...If I had to pick a girls name, I don't know which one i'd choose, but not Samantha...

even for one day....please....you could change it back again Monday!

Apologies....assumed you were an Andrea....guess I've got Reimer on the brain.

Haven't heard anything about Schoolboard yet.

you aren't the first person to make that mistake, oddly enough.....it must be the eyeliner. Guess I shouldn't take fashion tips from Green Day....

2700 up for Sullivan;James Green has >1600.

Is this a legitimate election?

My, I haven't seen an evening this close in a while.

bah! Sullivan up by 2700 votes? where did you see that?

Heard it on CBC One.

.

Unless I'm mistaken, Ross, that surge came from a few polls in Shaughnessy reporting in at once.

yup, 2700 votes with 60 polls reporting

Ya Tieleman had that, but it was awhile ago.

Rob - do you have a realtime/online source for numbers...I can't find one.

I'm getting results from the city web site, and they're a lot faster than what Shaw's reporting... when it's working. Right now, the server seems to be overloaded.

can you post the URL, please?

Can't some hotshot journo in this town follow the money backwards from that bloody bus?

.

Welcome Ross K, Andre28BC and all the other (warning, somewhat media democratic nerdy term coming) citizen journalists who make the Tyee's election forums hum. Hear former Mayor Philip Owen on Shaw a few minutes ago excoriating Jim Green for claiming that Green and COPE were responsible for launching the Four Pillars approach. Owen wanted everyone to know that he and Sam Sullivan were there early. Didn't mention that Owen's own NPA used harm reduction as a wedge issue to oust him, and when Jennifer Clark spoke darkly about Euro-experiments working here, Sam Sullivan didn't risky any political capital countering her. He was very quiet that campaign. As usual, it's complicated.

Complicated?

Since when did circling the wagons become complicated?

James Green has >2600 votes!

That URL is http://www.vancouver.ca/electionresults2005_wa/eresults2005.cfm for what it's worth -- and I'm guessing based on which bits of the map get coloured in when the page refreshes. But I haven't been able to load it for a while.

Meanwhile, Budd's prediction of re-election for Doug McCallum and a squeaker or defeat for Derek Corrigan seems to have been well off the mark. McCallum looks like he's going down (transit users may commence deafening cheers at will), while Corrigan has a comfortable margin over Andrew Stewart. (Big news in Surrey, actually; Bob Bose and Judy Villeneuve are topping the polls.)

Polling Stations Reporting : 93 / 142
Ballots Cast/Reg. Voters : 82284 / 407040
Total Votes: 81029
Results as of: 9:32:13 PM
Candidate Party Votes
SULLIVAN, Sam NPA 38834
GREEN, Jim VVN 35452
GREEN, James - 2639

By the way, very little of the southeast of the city has reported in yet. Gordon Price's prediction an hour or so ago on CBC Radio that the southeast quadrant would decide the election may well come to pass...

Polling Stations Reporting : 109 / 142
Ballots Cast/Reg. Voters : 100202 / 407040
Total Votes: 98593
Results as of: 9:39:13 PM
Candidate Party Votes
SULLIVAN, Sam NPA 47247
GREEN, Jim VVN 43064
GREEN, James - 3254

Ya Rob--

Looking at that map it's pretty apparent, in fact it looks like Tieleman nailed it. It's a North/South Split.

CClark just called the folks from COPE fruitcakes.

at what point does Green panic? down 4000 votes with 33 polls left?

well, it's called. This is a huge blow to the gay community. The NPA seems to be gleefully anti-gay. God, this really sucks.

She's a uniter, not a divider.

Meanwhile, on rereading the Surrey results, it doesn't look like there's much change on council itself. (Still nice to see Bose and Villeneuve topping the polls, though.) The mayor's office, though, has been long overdue for renovation.

Who called it?

Shaw. Sullivan won.

James Green now starting to finally get the attention of the mainstream journos.

Apparently folks at Hotel Vancouver are 'cheering' for James Green.

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Sullivan won and got 5 members on the council. Doesn't that mean it was a clean sweep and they essentially control everything?

those would be the good folks from the NPA.

CClark says a win is a win...compares it to George Bush?

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So CKNW says at the NPA headquarters they're cheering "Go James, Go James". Which just confirms my opinion of them. Who cares that they cheat? Not them. In fact, Christy is saying that's the way it is folks. Boy, these people are in the right party.

Mike just asked who paid for this guys campaign office? I guess we'll find out.

What baffles me the most if these results hold is why would we vote NPA for school board? Why, when the public is against the gov't re public ed? Something seems rather fishy.

This is a very weird election result.

Polling Stations Reporting : 138 / 142
Ballots Cast/Reg. Voters : 127449 / 407040
Total Votes: 125460
Results as of: 9:49:14 PM
Candidate Party Votes
SULLIVAN, Sam NPA 59824
GREEN, Jim VVN 55377
GREEN, James - 4107

MSmyth finally asks - where'd he get the money for that thing? (the bus).....

Although, with an NPA school board, I'm sure Campbell will scrap his plans - whatever he was going to do the boards. These people will be the ruin of this province and city. Oh well.

Yay! We're getting a Wal-Mart, we're getting a Wal-Mart, we're getting a Wal-Mart....

CBC radio one just said it's too close to call. true?

How could the people in this city be so blind? Vancouver, to me, stands for diversity, tolerance and multi-culturism and so what happens? The party and the guy that is the exact opposite of all those things wins, and he doesn't just win, the NPA now controls everything. What the ****?

Ballots Cast/Reg. Voters : 127449 / 407040

Apparently the majority of Vancouver citizens don't care, or am I misinterpreting such an "enthusiastic" voter response?

Polling Stations Reporting : 139 / 142
Ballots Cast/Reg. Voters : 128340 / 407040
Total Votes: 126333
Results as of: 9:56:13 PM
Candidate Party Votes
SULLIVAN, Sam NPA 60051
GREEN, Jim VVN 55935
GREEN, James - 4139

It's Sullivan by a ........Green!

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Yeah, Martin. Neo-con democracy. Get the supreme court to not count the results, rig the Deibold machines in Ohio and put James Green on the ballot. I guess we'll see when the final count is in.

I do not believe Vancouver voted for an NPA school board, I really don't.

Andre--

Don't forget, Mr. Sullivan wrapped himself in a progressive's robes.

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Van Schoolboard anybody?

lol sullivan by a green. Very clever.

Alright, let's not talk about the utter lameness of my predictions, a fact that is going to cost me drinks. Let's talk about the fact that Green loses and the Vision slate, without the clear party name recognition you'd think it would need, has actually done quite well. My question is, how did Vision elect more councillors than COPE, when its mayoral candidate is going down to defeat. I'm still puzzling over this.

But here's something I know for sure. This city still persists with an electoral and balloting system that favours people whose names begin with letters early in the alphabet. Want evidence? The NPA's largely no name slate is, in alphabetical order: Anton, Ball, Capri, Hardwick Nystedt, Jenkinson, Ladner, Lee, Leung, Maliha, Thompson. The order of finish at this point is: Anton, Ladner, Capri, Ball, Lee Leung, Hardwick Nystedt, Jenkinson, Thompson, Maliha.

Why did Dr Bass lose? That seems odd too.

redrivergirl--

Again, CClark says a 'win is a win' and like you she brought up GeoBush in 2000.

But unlike you, she was not being ironic.

Can only wonder if she has some inside information a la Mr. Woodward.

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at least Ronald LEUNG lost. He can take his gay-bashing butt and go home.

Yeah, well we need a Fitgerald that's for sure.

Oh, my goodness, Charles. Really? Arg!

Why did Dr Bass lose. He is very well respected? You called it.

4 polls left....two locked in green...two on the edges....

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olling Stations Reporting : 141 / 142
Ballots Cast/Reg. Voters : 131040 / 407040
Total Votes: 128997
Results as of: 10:09:24 PM
Candidate Party Votes
SULLIVAN, Sam NPA 61341
GREEN, Jim VVN 57123
GREEN, James - 4232

My biggest disappointment is the loss of Andrea Reimer from School Board...

Yes, the school board now is stocked with people who don't believe in good public education. Great. No?

Beside James Green, some OTHER stars that aligned in favour of Sam Sullivan tonight in Vancouver:

The 'Larry touch' that Green and his wing banked on last spring when COPE fractured was frittered away in the next few month through bad diplomacy between the Vision/COPE camp. Also Larry's outbursts and 'Never liked the job' statements on the way to the Senate -- Larry Campbell spent his political capital like a drunken sailor, leaving little for Green to use.

RAV and gambling split COPE and Vision. If you like RAV and gambling...you have Sullivan to vote for. If you hate RAV and gambling, you have COPE to vote for, while leaving the mayor's slot empty at the top.

Sullivan is hard ball playing politician but such the Hollywood scripted underdog in his life story, and so mild in his delivery, that he is a difficult target.

Green built his identity around the Downtown Eastside issues. That was last election...and even then Campbell was the west side cop who took an interest in the DES.

The Georgia Straight endorsed Sullivan (just in case the COPE/Vision split wasn't confusing enough for the average sorta lefty voter.)

The NDP did pretty well in the last election. Green wasn't running against the BC Liberals the way Larry Campbell was -- and Campbell was bouncing off a particularly draconian period of policymaking by the BC Liberals at the time.

Just a few speculative thoughts.

So it's 6NPA (with mayor) to 5 (Vision/COPE) on council?

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I am shocked.

It is a matter of public record that Elizabeth Ball is too incapacitated to function normally. Her significant court settlement was awarded because she successfully demonstrated that she was physically and mentally incapacitated as a result of the injury she suffered at The Gap. Among her symptoms: inability to concentrate, memory lapses, extreme fatigue. She and her witnesses testified that she was no longer capable of running her small business (Carousel Theatre Co.) as a result of her head injury.

Her HEAD INJURY.

Vancouver, what happened?

Good points. I voted for Green, but I wasn't thrilled because of RAV etc. What kind of city thinks it can do construction 24/7 in a residential area? Are they crazy? I feel sorry for those citizens and the gov't better re-evaluate that.

I think a lot of people like Owen too and his late comments hurt Mr Green.

Don't disagree that GStrait endorsement helped Smilin' Sammy, especially with 'soft' progressives in that Kits/Kerrisdale corridor.

But look at that huge swath of Red in the Far East and SouthEast - heard Gordon Price nail that one early.
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Something else....I get only 31% turnout after 141 polls.

That's pretty significant I would think, given that it was a strategy by the NPA to hold it down and Vision's to get it up.

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Final from the city web site:

SULLIVAN, Sam NPA 61543
GREEN, Jim VVN 57796
GREEN, James - 4273

So,

Sullivan won by 3747 and James Green took 4273....

Differential.... 526.

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Incidentally, was I the only one to get a non-too-subtle email from the Vancouver Aquarium, saying 1) COPE's planned referendum on captive aquatic mammals was a godawful idea, 2) obviously, the Vancouver Aquarium would never try to influence my vote, and 3) here are the names of all the stupid councillors who supported the godawful idea, and the few brave smart ones who didn't?

Any truth to the rumour that they have decided to name the next beluga JayGee?

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The spread in vote totals for Vancouver council candidates is about 2500 from third to 10th. That's incredibly close. And of course with one poll to report the Jim Greens are ahead of the Sam Sullivan by about 15 votes.

A look at the differing performance of Gree and the Vision candidates really does appear to come down to the presence of James Green on the ballot. I will be curious to see who funded James Green's campaign, and whether the media will look hard at that information so that we can better understand the impetus for his candidacy.

COPE likely suffered by not having a mayoral candidate , which put its candidates in a pack a a few thousand votes behind the 10th councillor elected. I think we're guaranteed more enforced courtship of COPE and Vision.

This is so depressing. Does anyone know why in god's name The Straight supported Sullivan?

Charles, can we presume that would be a call to 'follow the money'?

____
Looking ahead, interesting to see that Kevin Potvin hit the 10K mark as an independent...assuming that Vision holds together would he be the kind of guy they might pick up if they ran a full slate next time....I really liked some of his ideas, especially the one about a separate bike bridge from Vanier Park to the Aquatic Center for a price similar to that which it would cost to upgrade the Burrard.

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The question is will the Camwest papers follow the money? Is it in thier best corporate interest to do so?

I would think that Mr. Beers might be making an assignment or two even as we speak.....errrrr....type.

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Not sure if the ghost of Harry Rankin really supported Sam Sullivan... but I think it just left City Hall.

Even without taking the Mayor's chair... why would Vision only run half a slate next time? With just one seat, Council's looking pretty COPEless... Jim -- or as he'll forever be known now - "Not James" -- and Senator Da Vinci may have lost to the NPA, but they completely decaffeinated COPE.

Next election Vision Vancouver obviously has to recruit an S. Sullivan for their slate...

Or a Colin Metcalfe?

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Let me pose a question, how likely is it that EVERY SINGLE PERSON who voted for James Green ment to vote for Jim Green? And is this like the hanging chads in Florida; where the people that made the mistakes were just too old and too feeble to realize they weren't voting for the right person?

How likely is it that every single person who voted for James Green meant to vote for Jim Green? Hmm... Check out how many votes the other Fringe candidates managed...

That's a good point, but they didn't have a Straight-Talk Express! Paid For (allegedly) by the NPA!

Well I'm not suprised by the Vancouver results tonight, but very disappointed. I had the NPA with three seats on council and three falling short from the COPE slate. Very suprised Green lost.

Really though, COPE sowed the seeds for this defeat almost from the moment they were last elected. All of the moons and stars aligned for COPE last election.

COPE really did little in recogintion of this fact. From the outset the COPE council set themselves up to be shot down by the media and in turn the public. I think Green and Ray Louis instictively knew that to just go down this path would mean the council would be one hit wonders. And that it is more important to win you battles slowly and perhaps even below the radar screen in order to make significant change over the long haul instead of alienating the majority of the electorate that are generally the "mainstream".

The results tonight for Vision Vancouver probably bear that out, not withstanding Greens defeat.

This city whether we like it or not is politically diverse. COPE did not run a single ethnic candidate. For a party that professes progressivness this is either oversight or blind loyalty to the ones who have always had a tight rein on the party.

After the last election I said the first thing COPE should do is go and talk to Bby. council and find out how they get elected term in and term out.

Tonight results are not shocking. This has always been an NPA city and COPE pissed away their first real oportunity to really make a difference for our city.

All that being said, I think the successful Vision councilers ought to give thanks to the COPE machine for their sucessful bids.

From the for what it's worth dept......

M. Smythe reports late Sat. night in the talkshow portion of his show that James Green told him during an interview that he has met Colin Metcalfe.

And Sam Sullivan, moments later, says that James Green was a very credible candidate.

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tough night all-round.
here in white rock, the developers win and i'll be selling my place within a couple of years. hopefully sooner.
walmart wins in vancouver.
developers win big majority on council in surrey, but the loss for 'porkbarrel' mccallum is a silver lining. surrey's 'no trees left behind' agenda will move forward.
what are real estate prices like in burnaby?

gordco wins again.

poopheads!

Closing out with this for Andre28BC from way upthread.....I knew Green Day pre-eyeliner....24 Gilman St. Berkeley CA, circa 1994 (also spawned....wait for it - Counting Crows).

Had missed Charles' C's excellent point above also about the serendipity of the alphabet in this thing.

Thanks all, despite outcome, was fun.

____
Again, anybody interested in my running commentary from start to finish can find it at:

http://pacificgazette.blogspot.com

is this proof enough for you lefties that the last election was a reaction to the 77-2 result in the previous provincial? tim louis and ann roberts only got 4% of the vote, and the school board and parks board went solidly back to the npa. what a wonderful sigh of relief for the entire lower mainland.

The Jim/James issue aside... voters were clearly paying attention to who was who and decided if Mayor Da Vinci and Not James couldn't play nicely with COPE, then neither could they.

If this was strictly an east/west split, then the NPA would have swept.

Voters chose virtually every council candidate from an unknown party that looked to replace COPE on the left... and tossed out brand name incumbents, because they'd had it with the brand.

But does this mean the only hope for COPE is if their ex-councillors decide to start shopping at WalMart?

I too am sorry that Andrea Reimer didn't make it. She was running for all the right reasons.

It is unfortunate that the James Green question is hanging over the election. I just read the earlier Tyee article on the subject, and in the discussion afterward the issue seemed closed.

Is it possible that James Green won 526 votes? I've never heard of Ben West and he won 1907 votes for mayor. Scott Yee won 688 votes for mayor. UBC student Austin Spencer managed to get 456. I didn't even see these people campaign.

Two npa council candidates, Suzanne Anton and Peter Ladner also won more votes than Jim Green. You can't deny the fact that the npa got their vote out.

Democracy is too important to slur with urban legends and conspiracy theories that have not been backed up despite weeks of digging into the story. Is it possible that all the attention actually catapulted James Green?

Yes.

The following text is from a website "How Joe Made His Son President" (http://www.ytedk.com/jfk.htm) about John F Kennedy when he was first voted to senate in 1946 in Masechussetes.

It seems that sam sullivan has at least one thing in common with JFK... (i.e he might have won because of voter confusion about the other contenders' names.)

Jack's opponent in the primary election was a legitimate politician named Joe Russo. To insure that Jack won the primary campaign, Joe Kennedy paid Joseph Russo, a janitor, to also enter the race. This effectively confused the voters, and split the votes for Joe Russo.
- Russo the janitor recalled how Joe's friend Joseph Timilty and another man had visited him one day and asked him to run. In return, Russo said, "They offered me favors. Whatever I wanted." In fact, he said later, he wound up getting very little - occasional payments of $50 in cash.
- Even the aunt of the real candidate voted for the janitor, recalled Joseph A Russo, the real candidate's son. "They didn't leave anything unturned," he said. His father claimed that Kennedy's people had also arranged for other bogus candidates to "run in other areas to break up the Irish vote, or some other vote. They played for keeps."[B]

Elliot you make me sick. The results of tonights election shows primarily that the majority of the electorate was not paying attention. The city is now worse off than it was 3 years ago. No thanks to Larry Campbell. Or Neil Pincton or any of the so called new left.

The Burrard bridge cost COPE/VISION and Jim Green this election. It was political suicide to close two lanes on a trial basis. It was the anchor that pulled the COPE/VISION ship under. When you are fighting for the middle ground 3000 Westside moderates is the election demographic you are after.

Telling these people that they will be stuck in gridlock for a year for a "trial" does get you votes. Especially when COPE/VISION came out saying that "if" the trial failed they would be willing to expand the bridge. Sullivan played his hand well when he came out immediately saying he would scrap the whole idea, and if needed he would expand the bridge.

The electorate is willing to pay big money to not be inconvenienced, and a 12 million price tag seems small compared RAV. Vancouver may be bike friendly but it is still car dependent and COPE/VISION should have known this.

Correction

Telling these people that they will be stuck in gridlock for a year for a "trial" does NOT get you votes.

Well, hell, this is my first post since the polls closed. The reason, my friends, is that for all that money spent on afterparties, there's no Internet connection at the party venues. Shows you what I get for flitting from after-party to after-party instead of chilling at a bar like a normal person would do. (NPA media rep Jason Lesage told me that the party had to pony up "an arm and a leg" for the hotel Vancouver to give them a pipe so that they could show the results from the city website on their bigscreen projector.) No net, no posting till I got home.

Over at the Visionaries' party, the mood was upbeat early on when the first dozen polls showed Green ahead and all five council candidates in the show.

Notable cheers erupted as the results from Surrey came in with Duggy losing to Dianne Watts, and lesser cheers as Derek Corrigan did as expected in Burnaby. There was the concern that Green's early lead was from a bunch of eastside polls reporting first; as the record shows, those concerns were well-founded. The atmosphere was turning more sombre as I was left Vision's party to check out Chez NPA at the Hotel Vancouver. Packed and sweaty in there, let me tell you.

One NPA campaign worker whose candidate didn't finish in the money was amazed that Elizabeth Ball, whom he referred to as "a f^%*$%!! train wreck," was cruising to victory. This despite a campaign that got more attention over her past head injuries rather than her ideas or accomplishments.

Quip about the new council, from architecture critic and man-about-town Trevor Boddy; "The average IQ in that room just shot up." Boddy unsuccessfully attempted to secure an NPA council nomination earlier this year.

Jennifer Clarke, who was crushed by Larry Campbell in 2002, was of the opinion that Green and company did more than enough to shoot themselves in the foot during the three years of fighting on council. The other part was whaty she called Green's misrepresentations about the NPA -- including trying to tie Sullivan to the anti-gay and social conservative factions in the federal Tories. She also couldn't resist taking a shot at Green's sudden preference for fedoras and other aspects of Larry Campbell's personal style.

Speaking of NPA types, His Ex-Worship Philip Owen was on the prowl; apparently, one of his council candidate votes was reserved for one Jamie Lee Hamilton. Owen and ex-parks commissioner Christopher Richardson had an animated discussion about the James Green effect; amused as they were that the Green+Green totals just barely edged ahead of Sullivan's, both thought that the confusion vote was not significant enough to make hte difference, with Richardson hinting that a lot of James Green voters knew damn well who Jim Green was, and were voting for James Green owing to not having much use for Sullivan, and less for Green. Take it for what you will.

Like Tieleman and others, I've thought that the political axis in Vancouver has evolved to a weird hybrid of North-South and East-West. The old Cambie Street dividing line doesn't really fit; you now have a line that snakes from Kingsway and Boundary west along Kingsway, then 33rd, Midlothan, 29th, Cambie, and 16th to the city's western boundary. North of that is centre-to-left; South is centre-to-right. Now look at where Sullivan won: aside from the NPA-friendly south, he took his old stoming grounds of Renfrew-Collingwood and his new grounds in Downtown South/Yaletown, as well as other bits and pieces. Those wins probably put him over the top.

Some interesting results, I thought, included Raymond Louie at the top of the Vision pile, which shows that a low-key politician can win pretty big. Also of note was BC Lee finishing ahead of Ronald Leung even though Leung's signs were highly visible all acorss the city's south side.

Picking up on something that Charles mentioned about Vision getting four of five councillors elected while losing the mayoral race: I think that Jim Green voters were most likely to stick with Vision council candidates; becuase they only had five, there was less risk the Vision candidates' votes would be diluted by ticket splitters who perhaps like five or six candidates on a slate--but can't agree amongst themselves about which five or six are the ones to support! That shows in the Vision results -- 2000 votes between Louie and Deal; only Harrison was stuck on 45000 votes, likely becuse she was less well-known and unlike her slate-mates did not have an obvious appeal to a known constituency. (Philosophy majors, perhaps? I dunno!)

But this is gonna be fun to watch: you've got a mayor who's an uberwonk, a split council that includes a couple of wildcards (Chow and Ball), and some very experienced hands that are going to want plum appointments to boards like the GVRD and TransLink. Should make for a very interesting three years.

Well, I got the split close, but didn't believe COPE would get so obliviated. Which I guess is Larry Campbell's legacy.

Anyways, to all the progressives out there, get over the names and your own biases. Sam Sullivan isn't some ideological basketcase, nor is he anti-gay or anti-choice. Those were some of Jim Green's lies, which is exactly why the Georgia Straight did not endorse Jim.

What policies of the current council will be changed , and what did Cope really accomplish in the last 3 years which Sam and a mixed council won't carry on with. The four pillars? Sam was always for that and the groundwork of the safe injection site was tied to that.

So its time to look forward. We have a diverse council. Vancouver is nearing 30% ethnically asian, and so is our council. We have representation from the Gay community. We have 40% women. We have our first disabled mayor. We have a council which is split half and half. We have transit friendly candidates. And we also have a lot less stubborn / self righteous candidates than we had last time. We have socially progressive candidates, along with people who are actually fiscally responsible. We have the opportunity to move forward with a better GVRD with Watts in Surrey. I don't think we have anyone on council who is very confrontational. Its too bad that Bass or Woodsworth didn't get in, but I do believe many of COPE's plans in the last three years were actually distrcting it from serious progressive policies. I mean Fair Trade coffee may be theoretically helping peasants in columbia, but there are problems much closer to home that were sidetracked.

Now here is the challenge to progressives: what change do you think that Sam Sullivan will make that will be a step back? I personally think the only thing that will really be different is that he will be less liely than the alternative to convert industrial land into more condos. But really, how many social housing units are planned for the Shangri-La anyways?

"... one natural difficulty ... is that men (sic) willingly change their ruler, expecting to fare better ... but they only deceive themselves, and they learn from experience that they have made matters worse. This follows from another common and natural necessity: a prince is always compelled to injure those who have made him the new ruler, ... as a result you are opposed by all those you have injured in occupying the principality, and you cannot keep the friendship of those who have put you there; you cannot satisfy them in the way they had taken for granted"

Forgive the long quotation, but a night like this seemed a good occasion to break out my tattered copy of "The Prince". I must say that I do take a guilty pleasure in predicting this outcome a few years back. Four years ago, I regularly bent the ear of anyone who would humour me with my theory that what Vancouver needed was a "Pox on both your houses" Party. The NPA are a bunch of third-rate failed business people (and assorted head cases; e. g.
Councillor Ball); while COPE should have disbanded the moment Harry Rankin retired. I am certain that, the morning after the 2002 election, aging hippies awoke shocked, appalled, and totally flabbergasted at the horrible, horrible outcome of the vote, and immediately began striving to return COPE to its rightful role as a principled party of opposition, preferably with a single seat.

In the end, let me vent about how happy I will be if COPE were to read the writing on the wall, and close up shop. Seriously, I want a progressive party that accepts the FACT that this is a city of 2,000,000 that will be a city of 5,000,000 within 50 years, that accepts the FACT that 85% or so of us use automobiles to get around, that accepts the FACT that the Livable Region Strategy is as real as the Emperor's New Clothes (I challenge anyone who disagrees to go for a Sunday drive in Langley, which has massive business and industrial parks where the farmland used to be, all of which can only be served by road). The only way we can avoid choking on exhaust fumes due to gridlock is to borrow a shipload of money and rebuild our transportation system completely; the hippie rebellion of the 70's, with its emphasis on process over results, stalled the development of rapid transit for 30 years (our three lines were forced through by 1)Expo, 2)Glen Clark, and now 3)the Olympics; all three of which/whom were anathema to the organic gardening, bike-riding, Common Ground-reading baby boomer "New Left" élite who prefer to keep their heads in the sand and pretend that they live in a small-scale village close to the mountains and ocean, and not the large metropolitan area that those of us with better things to do on Super Bowl Sunday than sit through meetings enjoy. Of course, density, fun, and a working transportation system would all require working with - gasp!! - the business community, so COPE will have nothing to do with it. On the other hand, this would also require - gasp!! - borrowed money and an openness to change, so the NPA won't do anything about it either.

Two last quick comments. First, Vision lost this election by going along with the Burrard Bridge closure - by all means build a bike path, just don't reduce the area (already inadequate) allocated for busses and cars. Second, James Green would still have won some few hundred votes as an independant, leaving Jim Green a few hundred behind Mayor Sam.

Price of a senate seat - destroy COPE and that is what Green and Vision did, but at a price, Green himself. The rest of Vision are NDP wannabes or NDP has beens and they march in step with the BC Fed.

I'm quite happy with the vote as the next three years will be hell as RAV will consume them. Lawsuits, rancor, scandal will follow this project as it has with almost every other subway project.

The DoRav right people have money and they are mad, just watch.

And Samwise, I'm holding you to that promice that RAV will take 10,000 cars off the road, gee whizz, I have some Bre=x shares for you to buy!

Yes Quissling Campbell, a safe haven senate seat in Ottawa, is a good price for destorying COPE!

Sam is an ideologue and he signaled as much in his victory speech.

What this means is we now have a city where there isn't anyone who will say no to Big-Business interests and defend the interests of the public. That can not be good for a city, nor its inhabitants.

Many people think Sam is moderate. They think his claims of being on welfare in the past translates into compassion for the indigent. They think his disability also has given him compassion and understanding. I guess we'll see. His ideology doesn't reflect that.

Bottom line, without the James Green candidate Jim Green would have won. This is very dirty and a shame that hangs over this election.
What are we to think of people who win in this way? That they have the capacity to govern wisely? That they will be honest?

I too think most people weren't paying attention. I find it difficult to believe the NPA won school board candidates. It defies logic. Remember Ken's role of handmaiden to Gordon during the first attack on public education? I sure do.

Anyway, I hope I'll proven wrong and Sam and the council will govern wisely and with foresight.

Our city is in great need of progressive policies. The voice of COPE helped this city. Without their voice and the voice of those they speak for, we'd have condos along kits point, no community gardens on the Arbutus line and Most of Stanley Park developed. As it is this city is becoming less and less citizen friendly and less livable. Wil CNN now have it's way along Arbutus. Will we citizens now rewrite the agreement CNN had and end up paying an American corp through the nose, on a revised deal? That's what they've been fighting for... And, Wallmart? Great for a cities character. But, I guess it fits in with skyscrapers so high one can no longer see the mountains from Broadway.

I agree that Larry Campbell etal with their constant putdowns of COPE, contributed to their loss. I won't go so far as to say demise. COPE's philosophy is reflective of a lot of people in this city.

I agree with you about RAV, Grumpy. It won't be pretty. Talk about dirty deals where we will be on the hook for projected ridership! What a scam.

city's... etc

SQUEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLL......

So you lost again. Of course, it was all a conspiracy. It could not be anything you have done. Self examination is not part of the programme.

stewart,

One guess:

Who's the most hated man in Vancouver today - that is, if he hasn't skipped town until passions cool?

I'm curious how COPE stalwarts will deal with this internally. They'll blame Larry and Jim, of course. They'll blame James Green (who in the end did not turn the election, because a fair number of his votes were inevitably protests). They'll blame the media.

But will they ask themselves, why are we so consistently a party that lights itself on fire election after election? Why are our candidates so old? Why are they so white? COPE's problem, and it's a problem for a lot of political organizations, is that it seeks less to broadly represent the community than to confirm the righteousness of its beliefs to its members and strongest supporters.

I think the outgoing COPE councillors did listen better than many past NPA councillors. They made that effort. But the group that was left after the Vision split, and a trip to any COPE membership meeting shows they're representative, was too much a particular segment of the old left. Will a party gutted by this election be able to rebuild and most particulary broaden its appeal? The record of the past three years suggests not. The encouraging sign is that council survivor David Cadman is one of the "big tent" people in the old COPE camp.

It's a real shame that Jim Green lost. The James Green factor leaves a very foul smell... I'm not as unhappy as I thought I might be with the mix on council. I was cheering for something different - but there are some impressive people elected and very few dunderheads on council. I hope that Sam Sullivan has the good sense and graciousness to keep Jim Green involved in the DTES, and the Woodwards project in particular. I fear that he won't - unless city management thinks it's a good idea, and they probably don't.

Please. NPA will say they were protest votes. Be honest. They were people who were elderly and others who were overwhelmed by that ballot. It's insulting to say that they were protest votes. Disgusting.

COPE will blame everybody but themselves. Introspection is not a great quality of the Lefties. See the above post. See? Blaming everybody else. I am really excited to see the city going forward, not back!

Working man, the reactionary 'right' without a strong mitigating factor will drive this city forward right into the brink.

In my opinon we will see a shift in politics as the people attracted to the new-right will be (and are) increasingly opportunistic takers with little if any integrity, who lack creativity and who see public life as a meal ticket and a way to self-aggrandizement, while the 'left' traditionally and will increasingly, attract people who have so much integrity they can no longer sit by and watch what is happening to their communities.

And, Working man, I'm not COPE. I am just a citizen of this city and voter.

I agree with you Working Man to this extent: I heard Tim Louis blaming his loss on Jim Green, saying I guess he would be on council had their been a solid COPE banner to run under. The most immediate reason he wasn't in the top ten is because of the number of votes cast for him. He lost supporters, and this has nothing to do with brand confusion. He had his own name recognition. People who voted for him in the past two elections didn't suddently forget who he was and vote for some other slate. They made a choice not to vote for him. Wordworth, Livinstone, and Bass need a similar period of reflection. As far as council is concerned, COPE lite can out on top. COPE classic needs to reflect on that rather than blaming those who disagree with them for the fact that they lost votes.

Should have posted this much earlier but am surprised no others picked up on it.

With the tunneling of the RAV line starting the week of the Municipal elections, someone didn't want to take the chance that McCallum and other supporters may have been defeated. There was too great a possibility of major changes to the route and/or methods of construction.

Don't misunderstand. I support Sky Train and the linking of all municipalities with the system but not this caviar RAV construction that has been foisted on all Lower Mainland taxpayers.

Some recall the NDP being sucked into AirCare, by the potential imposition of huge financial penalties, by a Socred government facing defeat.

There is a similar stench, to me, in this commitment to the RAV tunneling.

Insulting and disgusting here. In order for votes cast in error for James Green to have turned the election, about 9 in 10 would have to be pure mistakes. I think the majority were pure mistakes, perhaps three quarters. But common sense tells me that people who do one common thing do it for a variety of reasons. I think at least one in 10 votes were either protest votes from COPE die-hards who couldn't bring themselves to vote for Jim Green or Sullivan, or people who voted for James Green because he's black, or people who he knows personally who needed to be able to tell him honestly that they voted for him, or people who just vote for the silly candidate just because. That doesn't make James Green's candidacy any less concerning, for all the obvious reasons. It's just that if he hadn't been there, I think Sullivan would have won anyway — but by a few hundred votes instead of a few thousand.

Where everyone winds up looking, sounding, talking and having the same essentail ideas as each other, in the end genuflecting and playing footsie with the same ruling class folks and their representatives, folks might as well vote for those politicians most directly favoured and connected to the ruling class. And they do.

If you're going to get the same essential result in the end anyway, you might as well reduce the acrimony and go straight to the source. And that's what folks do, across even class lines.

Or they don't bother showing up at the polls at all.

Curious. What passes for a heavy turnout in this municipal election anyway? Anyone seen any actual figures? (I'd drop from apoplexy if it was over, ohhhh, even 60% of eligible voters.)

Not considered at all by anybody in Sullivan's win is the Abraham Jedediah Rogatnick factor. This gentleman helped Sam Sullivan win in Sullivan's anti ward campaign. For the present campaign Rogatnick placed two half page ads in the Straight and one very expensive one in the A section of the a Saturday Vancouver Sun personally backing Sam Sullivan. Rogatnick, from his own pocket, funded a "meet Sam Sullivan" at the Contemporary Art Gallery a few weeks back. Over 500 people from the arts (architiects, designers, singers, actors, etc) were invited. I saw nobody from the media at the CAG. If I understand well Rogatnick may have written many of Sullivan's speeches. And one last consideration, at 83, Rogatnick has experience in spades.

Regarding the "James Green Factor": I believe that while some of these votes were probably of the confused variety, the majority were likely traditional COPE supporters who chose James Green as the best way to stick it to "that jerk Green" (they might have used a stronger adjective than "jerk").

Love the blaming! Of course, COPE's antics over the last three years have no bearing on their virtual destuction.

As usual, the left is blaming everybody but itself for its defeat.

>They were people who were elderly >

Just because somebody is over 65 does not mean they are stupid. Shame on you, redrivergirl.

My mother is 70 years old and a more informed and insightful person I have never met.

I support Carol James but one wonders where her brain was at on the pay increases for Provincial politicians.

It's not 20/20 hindsight. With the teacher and Telus workers disputes, particularly, public revulsion at this piggery at the public trough was safely predictable.

Carol allowed herself to be sucker-punched by a government keen to show an Opposition equally venal. I'm glad that second thoughts soon followed. Damn shame they had to.

Some might even suggest that this "being asleep at the switch" may have effected some of the municipal election results.

68% of voters did not bother to head out to the polls. Surely this is significant. It hardly translates into a heavy turnout. The big story is not James Green or the alleged collapse of COPE, but that most people couldn't be bothered to vote.

I think skeptikool has a valid point. Given the previous antics of our NDP and Liberal MLAs in coming together in new golden error of cooperation to give themselves a raise, is it any wonder most people didn't bother going through the motions?

You're not disgusting Charles Campbell. I suppose. :-) It is is the whole sordid mess.

That is a low turn out. I think it is more because they both claimed to be two 'peas in a pod' and really it was a very uninspiring election. I think people didn't inform themselves. I'm very sorry about it and I think NPA school trustees will not be good for public ed, rather they will align themselves with Campbell and forget all about the 'trustee' part of their title.

I was thinking more fifty plus, Working man. Anyone who needs reading glasses. And, mixing up that ballot does not mean one is stupid. It means the ballot was confusing.

The biggest shocker in the days leading up to the election was the Georgia Strait endorsing Sullivan!

While Jim may have lost a few hundred confused voters to James "The name thing is not the name of the game" Green, he must have lost thousands to the Strait editorial.

What does this tell us?
The left establishment was well chafed over Vision's split from COPE, and believed Vision's move to the centre was an indication of increasingly comfortable dealings with the Provincial government.

Jim Green was punished for the fraction, and while he ran on Campbell's shoulders, in the end, it just might have been his downfall.

One thing is for sure, while Campbell isn't smiling today, at least he's consoled by Tim Louis's defeat.

During one of the last council meetings on the Hastings slots, Campbell threatened to throw a gallery of boisterous Hastings Park residents out.
Louis nearly shouted, "I'd like to see you try it."

Campbell glared down at him with a look of utter disgust and said something to the effect of, "Yet another reason for people to vote you off council this time."

These people couldn't stand each other!

Look no further than the behaviour of the COPE Light-Classic council, for the seeds of Jim Green's loss. They had it, but blew it.

Sullivan may try to get a slight revisiting of public space allocations at Woodward's, so some social non-profits will be in for bad news. The project probably has a momentum of it's own now, but some of the more idealistic angles of the "Shining Hope of the DTES" may lose thier shine with a one vote NPA majority.

But the most interesting thing to watch in council now will be Sullivan's relationship with the police.

What was that loud groan you heard last night? A collective shudder from the VPD, who now have to open their books to a new Police board chairman, who has ideas on drugs and crime that may run counter to the Chief and the Union's comfort zone. Let the search for "efficiencies" begin. Good luck getting the overtime hours down though.

Look for Peter Ladner to start building support for a mayor's seat in the future by playing the voice of reason and compromise between Vision and the NPA in council.

And Raymond Louie will start to assert himself more, without Green and Campbell to defer to.

Sam Cooper

I think Jim Green lost this one all on his own. Sullivan came across as the nice guy in the wheelchair while Green came across as a nasty guy who attacked the nice guy in the wheelchair. Green was easily the most negative and spent more time attacking than he did trying to outline his own policy. I don’t think Mr. Federal pork barrel Larry Campbell helped Green all that much either. Blaming James Green is just sour grapes.

Coyote said--

"I'd drop from apoplexy if it was over, ohhhh, even 60% of eligible voters."

Actually, from City of Vancouver Website it was.....

Ballots Cast/Reg. Voters : 132072 / 407040

Which I figure is 32.4%%.

With a turnout that low and an election this close somebody might even want to go out on a limb and suggest that there might have been some erosion in the traditional NPA base.

Regardless, historical low turnouts are not good for progressives in Vancouver.

.

Even more interesting is how the transportation issues are going to be addressed. It will be a challenge for Minister Falcon to deal with Watts (Surrey), Wright (New Westminster), and Corrigan (Burnaby), will be a different stew without Doug McCallum and Larry Campbell.

Will Sullivan become a consensus builder? Will he be willing to work with the provincial liberals who tried to turf him out via Christy Clarke?

Maybe it is time to again start considering revisting the municipal structure of the GVRD.

Sam C--

I hope you are right about Louie.

But, if you are right about the bigger picture (and I think you might, at least in part, be)....why did Vision do so well on council?

I agree that the Goergia Straight endorsement of Sam had more impact than any confusion about the Jims. While I am feeling very sad about Jim Green today beacuse I like him, respect him, and thought he'd earned it - this won't be a bad council. Sam is not deep but he is not particularly partisan either. I expect he will defer to Judy Rogers and city staff. It's a compotent city staff, so I think we are okay. Policy debates will be the business of council (where a mayor has one vote) and will I would have preferred a slightly different configuration, there is balance on counsel, I think. Vision did well because moderation sells. That's why they call it the centre.

Well George Chow and R. Louie were very popular going in. Stevenson has a good base and wasn't seen as an agressor towards the Lights at all. Even in the disturbingly juvenile sniping that took place in council chambers, Stevenson didn't point any nastiness or haughty contempt towards the idealistic wing.

That was Campbell and Green, and that's why Green was punished.

I think that progressives should actually look on the bright side today. A TransLink and GVRD shakeup is in the works, and that is surely the biggest impact that could have come out of these elections.

Besides the packaging, Green and Sullivan were really quite close on a lot of things.

Green was seen as the more natural leader, Sullivan more the flake to a lot of pundits.

What we saw was a vacuum with Campbell leaving, and voters returning to more traditional patterns, without a hot button issue.

And even though some people downplay it, you can bet Sullivan wouldn't have won without those Cantonese lessons.

A few years of lessons-- $2000.
Tight ties with an influential voting demographic, and beating JIm Green--Priceless.

Errr, I meant Stevenson wasn't seen as an agressor to the Classics. Sleep deprivation.

Thanks Sam, very interesting analysis.

One last dig (jokingly!).....And who paid for those goldarned lessons anyway?

.

I think Jim Green sometimes didn't help himself with the style he chose to put on in council.

This fed the perception of a bully, but as you can see from his breaking down in his concession speech and pleading for Sullivan to respect the Woodwards plan, he really believes in it.

For my money, if he would have shown this type of sincerity throughout the campaign instead of the manfuactured facade of a wisecracking, hip politician, he would have won.

As Sullivan said, his heart is in the right place. How come the electorate didn't buy it?

I believe it is because some of these city councillors are trying to conform to some image of the tough talking confrontational federal or provincial cabinet debate star.

What a waste of hot wind.

Jim Green will be back, humbled and a better politician. IMHO.

I agree with what you say samsol - except (and I watch far too much council on community TV!) I never saw "Jim the bully" in council meetings. Perhaps there was something behind the scenes, but I've never heard any specifics. Sam is well meaning - but not thoughtful. I'm not worried about Sam as Mayor. It just means that Judy Rodgers will be running the joint.

Interesting critiques. I don't consider the Straight any kind of underground paper and haven't for years. Perhaps they were considering their advertisers. Or, perhaps they didn't look very deeply at the issues. Sullivan is extremely pro big-business and is notbi-partisan. He and Campbell will get along very well. And, of course, James Green did syphon votes from Jim Green and that is why he was on the ballot. It will be interesting to see what will come of it.

Hopefully, Sam will surprise me.

Thanks, RossK.

I really was tempted to say 30 to 40 percent myself, but decided it would be better to be wrong on the high side. :-) Even 60%. while high by historical standards, would have still been pretty abyssmal.

Or anywhere, typically. Which is why progressives and radicals need to work harder, have better analyses and ideas, cutting to the system's bone, and winning the working class vote over time. Cynicism is so widespread, of even or especially the left, as even the wingnuts are correct to observe, and is too often a correct appraisal of the left, that it's going to take a whole lot more insightful and imaginative analyses and practice, than has been seen for one hell of a long time, to overcome and build that participation rate, whish IS the key to more progressive and radicalized outcomes.

The times are changing, but the left is not. They're merely assimilating backwards into the system, instead of being a dynamic, people organizing, democratizing, putting them on the street and in motion force for change that makes the system squeal.Ain't easy, but what is just plain ain't working and ain't gonna. Not in any meaningful way.

The best it's gonna give ya, at all levels of the political process, is a bunch of cloned Carol Jameses sharing the dream of the Liberal Golden Decade.

Election day? Yawnnn. Think I'll catch a few more zzzzs and an early night.

Too bad, and I know it sounds cynical, but....

By the by, and it won't get ya two cents, I know, but I think NDPers and the public need to demand that Carol resign her position for this pathetic signal of where she wants to take the Party. And make no mistake, this was a Freudian slip that tells much. It was not "just a harmless little mistake."

Dear Ian King,
I don't know where you are but you seem to have the pulse of Vancouver voters. Your 'fearless' election predictions were almost bang on except for including Louis in the list of the Ten Elected Vancouver Councillors! I got off work at 10 PM Saturday night and heard both Mike Smyth and Kristy Clark say on CKNW that this was an election of the Centre. I must agree by looking at the final results. That is why the most radical Left Wing COPE Councillors like Bass, Louis and Roberts all lost except for the more moderate David Cadman who, as Mayor Campbell has said, "someone I can work with."

I reluctantly agree with other commentators that James Green took several thousand voters from Jim Green. Other independent Vancouver candidates only took between several hundred or 1,800+ votes in one case. However, James Green maintained a higher than usual campaign profile among independents with his highly visible campaign bus and spent $12,000 in personal expenses for his campaign and his reasonable web site. He was a real Mayoral candidate. Perhaps, if his last name was not Green, he could still have garnered 1,000 votes in this large city and Sullivan may have won the Mayoralty with less than 400 votes but I'm afraid we'll never know now!

As this is my final post, I'm must say that I'm happy Dianne Watts decisively won the mayor's race in Surrey with 55% of the vote but she will have trouble--as an Independent--governing Surrey City Hall because 6 of the 8 Councillors elected came from MacCallum's dominant SET party. Basically, the SET party had a huge advantage in high profile candidates while Bob Bose's left-wing Surrey Civic Electors(SCE) slate ran with a group of mostly unknown or poorly known candidates, who all lost sadly, except for Bose himself. I know since I voted for 4 of MacCallum's own SET Council candidates because I respected their public records. Some SET candidates like Mary Martin have done good social work at the Surrey YMCA and I'm glad she got in(I did vote for her). However, I note sadly that one left-wing SCE school trustee candidate--Laurie Larsen--lost in her race for the final Sixth seat as a Surrey school trustee by ONLY TWO VOTES. See the election results below. This should serve as an object lesson to all those voters in the Lower Mainland that every vote counts!
http://secure1.city.surrey.bc.ca/electionresults/all_election_result_display.asp

Officially, only 32% of voters in Vancouver voted last night which is even lower than the usual average of 35%. It makes you want to give your head a shake! Thanks everyone for your insightful comments. I enjoyed the Tyee Forum.
Fabian from Surrey Newton.

Like night and day
NAKED EYE / Why I'm voting for COPE and Vision Vancouver on Nov 19

Robin Perelle / Xtra West / Wednesday, November 09, 2005
How many of you are suffering from COPE complacency?

How many of you have been lulled into the mistaken belief that three years of responsive city government, three years of having a voice at city hall means there's no going back?

Well, snap out of it.

With the municipal election just days away, the threat of an NPA resurgence means we can easily go back. In fact, we could lose everything we've gained since 2002, if we're not careful.

Remember the days when Pride got neither funding nor support from city hall, and barely any acknowledgement for its contributions?

Remember the days when new gay spaces had to wait years rather than months for permission to operate in the Village, and had to struggle every step of the way?

Remember the days when there was no one to call on Cambie St if you needed answers, let alone action, on gay issues?

I do, and I don't want to go back there.

That's why I'm voting to keep COPE and its spinoff party, Vision Vancouver, in office this Nov 19 and I urge every single one of you living in Vancouver to do the same.

"It's like night and day," Randy Atkinson told me in July 2003, on the eve of our first Pride under a COPE-dominated council.

City hall had just approved the first-ever Davie St fair for Pride, had not only approved but facilitated gay bars staying open late for the festivities, and had, at Councillor Tim Stevenson's urging, cut the Pride Society a little slack and given it a bit more time to repay its debts. Council soon followed up with $12,781 in grant money-up from zero in previous years.

"It's really a testament to getting a council who understands the importance of this festival to the community," Atkinson said. What a difference a year-and a city election-can make.

What a difference indeed.

Under the previous NPA administration, council simply enforced the status quo, deferring to its own previously established policies to set the course-even if that course excluded communities who had been excluded when the policy was set in the first place.

Which is exactly what Sam Sullivan will do if he gets elected mayor Nov 19.

"Once you develop policy and it's well deliberated, and it makes sense and it's rational and it's intellectually defensible, you don't go around adjusting it for any group that happens to come by," Sullivan recently told my teammate Matt Mills (see page 17).

That's fine for groups considered worthy of inclusion when the original policy was drafted, but where will that leave queers under the NPA? Same place as before. Without grants for Pride, without new gay spaces, without city support or recognition.

Jim Green, in contrast, says he's willing to consider designating the Davie Village as an entertainment district, which would recognize the Village as the gay community's prime social gathering space and facilitate licensing for its bars and clubs.

That's a good sign. An even better sign is that he's got Tim Stevenson on his team.

part 1

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Tim Stevenson gets things done for the gay community at city hall. He's accessible, he's responsive and he's effective. I want to send him back to council surrounded by his new Vision Vancouver running mates who seem more than happy to take his cue on gay issues and support his initiatives.

And I want Ellen Woodsworth and the rest of the COPE team to sit beside them.

A behind-the-scenes activist pushing for all sorts of social change, Woodsworth has quietly supported Stevenson on numerous occasions since becoming the first out lesbian ever elected to city council three years ago. Lately, she's been rallying the COPE team to keep supporting Stevenson's initiatives. Together, they make a great team.

COPE also has my vote for the Vancouver School Board and parks board.

Led by COPE school trustees such as Jane Bouey, the Vancouver School Board made history last year with its groundbreaking, comprehensive anti-homophobia policy. The only trustee dragging his feet: John Cheng, the lone NPA member on the board.

On Nov 19, I'm voting for Bouey, Stevenson, Woodsworth, Green and the rest of the COPE and Vision Vancouver slates, and I hope you will too.

Don't let the city's decision-making bodies go back to the NPA.

part 2 of 2

So, which is it? I see people posting here saying Sullivan and the NPA aren't anti-gay, but it seems to me that the editor in chief of Xtra West might know a little better than the folks posting here. So, which is it?

gordco/developers/walmart win again.
sam is no moderate. he knows his masters.
we can only hope gordco and walmart sam do as little as possible over the next 3 years.

So David Cadman is going to feel lonely. COPE veterans Louis, Woodsworth and Roberts have somehow ended up at the bottom of the mid-table, just before the proverbial continental shelf.

From my vantage point -- from the burbs, I was amazed to see how sparsely sprinkled COPE signs were along both the city's east-west, and its south-north corridors.

It's a [severely] mixed metaphor, but you couldn't swing a dead cat without hitting an NPA or Vision placard (or a fire truck, apparently).

The most under-reported analysis, however, comes from east of Boundary.

In Burnaby, Derek Corrigan's larboard leaning BCA did as well as expected. Corrigan was re-elected, and BCA demolished Team Burnaby on the school trustee ticket.

This isn't really news... but...

Burnaby citizens have given Corrigan what might turn out to be a gift. Burnaby council is an even split amongst Team Burnaby and BCA councillors. This means Corrigan holds the balance of power on issues that split down partisan lines.

As for the crime hullabaloo that dominated Burnaby media coverage? Maybe they should have focused on the environment, because it seems like the voters weren't swayed by moronic negative issues campaigning (Stewart) and negative PR (Corrigan). Voters overwhelmingly supported green space initiatives. On all five counts, referendum support hovered well above 70 per cent.

And for cynical entertainment, watch the Corrigan-Rankin relationship develop with Shakespearean-like tragedy and intrigue -- especially if Lee Rankin joins Corrigan on the GVRD board. Any bad vibes could bring the Burnaby mayor's Irish temperament to a boil. Rankin caught the most votes for councillor.

Incumbent BCA councillor, Sav Dhaliwal, appears to have missed the council cut by a single vote to Team Burnaby’s Barbara Spitz. And who says your vote doesn’t count?

Hmm. I just heard Sam on CKNW and he said that Jim Green knows a lot and while he didn't commit himself, he intimated - after Berner prodded - that there may be a job for him. It would be wise to utilize his expertise and ease transitions.

He is speaking of being truly bi-partisan and giving Tim S kudos as well. I am prepared to admit it if I've been wrong. I'll keep my mind open and hopefully, time will show that I've misread him prior to the election.

Red river girl, I'm glad you heard that interview. (I missed it so I'm glad for the recap) Unless you hear Sam speak informally, its hard to understand his openness to new ideas. He's really an unlikely mayor, and I have a feeling that this council is really capable of addressing many of the issues in council. With veterans like David Cadman, and mavericks like Louie, as well as supporters of the arts such as Ball and Stevenson, and a Bike fanatic such as Ladner, I think it will be interesting. Anton, Deal, Capri, Lee and Chow should fit in fine, but it will be interesting how they align themselves.

Hopefully they do less in caucus and more in council.

Also: I think we might see Jim Green working with Gillespie as project manager for Woodwards. Which would be fitting, because that really is his passion. There is probably no one who knows more about that project or has spent more time working on it. But I guess that decision is up to Ian. I think that would be the best, because the city will serve more as an oversight/advisory board, where as the project fullfilment should now be in the hands of the developer.

Sam,

The Straight endorsing Sullivan was no shocker to this observer; all you have to do is look at their stories on gaming, slots, RAV, and Wal-Mart. I had figured that it was a fait accompli from the moment COPE decided not to run a mayoral candidate and Sullivan won the NPA nomination over Christy Clark. I think that it was the Straight editors' puritanical stance against gaming that really did Green in, aided by Green's reputation as a wheeler-dealer and borderline strongman. The gambling issue also reared its head in their parks endorsements, where they refused to endorse any incumbent COPE commissioners, even a perfectly credible one like Loretta Woodcock. Left-wing NDPers, Greens, and the occasional moderate Liberal/NPA type get the nod. Centrist NDPers don't fare well with the Straight. (Just ask Joy MacPhail...) Neither do right-wingers, but that's a bit less surprising.

Consider that in the provincial election, the Straight slammed Lorne Mayencourt as being a particularly mendacious MLA, but due to their stance on gambling and general disregard for the m.o.'s of the COPE light councillors, they refused to endorse Tim Stevenson. Instead, they gave the nod to the Green candidate despite the fact that there was no hope of him winning. In that same slate of endorsements, the Straight argued in Burquitlam that a vote for the Green candidate was a vote for the BC Liberals. It takes a special brand of reasoning to pull that one off.

(Yes, I think that Charlie Smith was gloating last night after Green lost...)

That said, I'm not sure how much a newspaper endorsement is worth. The Sun endorsed Jennifer Clarke and a mostly NPA slate in 2002; fat lot of good that did them. It also didn't help Kathi Thompson and Colleen Hardwick Nystedt this time out.

Fabian,

Thanks for the props. I'm in Mount Pleasant, which is a good place to start from if you want to pound the ground in the rest of the city and try to feel things out.

The apparently lower turnout was affected by the fact that the provincial voters' lists, which are also used locally, were freshly updated for this year's election. This coused the number of eligible voters to go from 280,000 in 2002 to 407,000 in 2005, which distorts the percentage turnout figures. The actual number of ballots cast, though, fell by only 7,689. Put it another way: in 2002, Larry Campbell and Jennifer Clarke combined for 122,000 votes, while Sullivan and Green totalled 118,000. Green's loss can be less attributed to lefty voters staying home than to changing voters' preferences.

There is nothing that leads me to believe that the ten thousand or so voters who would have voted had 2005 turnout mirrored that in 2002 would have tilted 7000-3000 against Sullivan. I really doubt that the dip in turnout is for the lack of a radical alternative; this patter may be fine for campus Trotskyists who have been insisting for the past several decades that revolution is just around the corner, but it really doesn't hold up once you leave the SFU campus.

Ah, the wailing and nashing of teeth after the election. COPE lost becuase their platform did not excite the electorate, plain simple. Green lost because COPE supporters did not support him after stabbing COPE in the back.

Well Tweedle Dum got elected, with the bad and the ugly. All is well in Vancouver and the future is going to be faaaaaaantastic because Vanvouver will get a new WalMart, yippee!

Have we all sunk that low?

Hey, what do The NPA and the Edmonton Eskimos have in common?

Give up?

They both needed to cheat to win!

(James Green & an obvious pass-interference call that was missed on the final play)

"is this proof enough for you lefties that the last election was a reaction to the 77-2 result in the previous provincial? tim louis and ann roberts only got 4% of the vote, and the school board and parks board went solidly back to the npa. what a wonderful sigh of relief for the entire lower mainland"
commentor: jazzposted: 22 Hours Ago "Elliot you make me sick. The results of tonights election shows primarily that the majority of the electorate was not paying attention. The city is now worse off than it was 3 years ago. No thanks to Larry Campbell. Or Neil Pincton or any of the so called new left."
hey jazz; if you learn some history we can talk, otherwise quit bothering me. i have no time for clones.

Hi Ian, Lam and other Forum members,
I'll break my vow not to make another post on the Municipal Elections this once by admitting that the apparent decrease in Municipal voter participation is likely caused by the increase in the Registered Voters rolls due to the new higher Federal Gov't figures. Unfortunately, now we don't know the actual voter participation rate since the higher voter rolls skewers data.

But I must stress that many people are highly apathethic when it comes to Municipal Elections. At my workplace, some said that all politicians can't be trusted, so why vote. Unfortunately, last Thursday night's Carole James-Gordon Campbell backroom deal to increase MLA salaries doesn't help change this common perception one bit! Other voters--like my own sister--said that they don't know the candidates, so why vote. Unfortunately, since my family had Laurie Larsen on our list of candidates to vote for, Larsen may have lost by just 1 vote if my sister had bothered to show up and vote. A recount may change matters--especially in Surrey and also in Burnaby where Sav Dhaliwal lost by just 1 vote--once the scrutineers physically recheck all the Out of Area ballots for anyone stupid enough to fraudulently vote twice or for any ballot errors but still this does emphasize the lesson that Every Vote Counts! I wld have prefered a more balanced Surrey school council after the recent controversy over the Laramie Project and the expensive Same Sex book trial but now we probably won't get it because some people chose not to exercise their franchise. While the results may change with a hand count count in Burnaby and Surrey--which like Delta and Richmond--uses machines to read votes, in theory it shouldn't. The machine is usually accurate 99.9% at the time in reading ballots which are marked by connecting opposite facing arrows. So, unless several voters forgot to completely connect the two arrows for a candidate, it seems that both Larsen and Dhaliwal are behind the Eight Ball literally.

Ian, as an Aside, you seem politically pretty moderate and balanced(like me) for someone in Vancouver Mt. Pleasant--in the heart of the Downtown Eastside Territory. But least, you may have 1 or 2 Council representatives. In Surrey, the wealthier South Surrey and socially conservative Cloverdale neighbourhoods tend to control City Hall through MacCallum's SET party because voters there tend to vote in higher numbers than elsewhere. So, many Councillors come from this area. For instance, I live in the Middle Class neighbourhood of Newton(which Penny Priddy once represented as an MLA) and there are now NO Councillors representing Newton, working class Whalley or even the relatively wealthy area of Panorama Ridge, just south of Newton after this election! The left-wing Councillor Bob Bose lives in South Surrey as does the current Mayor Doug MacCallum while Dianne Watts lives in a rural area of South Surrey/Cloverdale. So, obviously the current voting system doesn't help my Neighbourhood much. There are nearby SET councillors who represent North Surrey but they come from (and generally represent) only Fleetwood and Guildford. No wonder so many people feel apathethic or disenfranchised within their own city and don't bother to vote except in exceptional cases like the titanic Watts--MacCallum bout! Any comments, anyone?
Thank You again. Fabian

Ian King, you're typing a little fast. (Caffeine?) Can't tell which candidates and media you say are for or against that intellectual, mind-expanding, healthy, socially useful sport of gambling.