If I remember correctly, Mr. Mair seemed much more concerned with the First Nations provisions in the Charlottetown Accord than anything else. The radio talkshows hummed with talk about how First Nation rights would ruin our country. So, for BC atleast, it wasn't all about Quebec.

If I remember correctly wasn't Mulroney going to end patronage appointments to the senate et al.The fact the SOB is a member of The Order of Canada is a national disgrace.History will not be kind to this lieing bragger,any more so than to the fool Jean Chretien who nominated him.Different political stripes the same evasive self serving,lieing b.s.

scylla; The notwithstanding clause is a provision (Section 33) of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, which is entrenched in the Constitution. It basically allows any gov't, federal or provincial, to ignore a Court ruling based on a constitutional right. Without it the premiers would not have signed on to the Constitution in 1982.

The potential damage of Meeck Lake and Charlottetown were chickenfeed in comparison to Mulroney's US-Canada FTA, which he brought on by lying to the people.

Mulroney fought his leadership and later his election campaign on an anti FTA platform. Two days after his 1984 election to power he was getting his orders from Reagan in Washington and came back a big FTA supporter.

During the 1983 PC leadership campaign the June 7, 1983 issue of MacLean's quoted Mulroney on Peter Pocklington's ideas for free trade:" Canadians rejected free trade with the United States in 1911. They would do so again in 1983.
Canada must increase its share of total world trade, which has dropped by 33% in the past two decades"

His right hand man Michael Wilson said:" Bilateral free trade with the United States is simplistic and naive. It would only serve to further diminish our ability to compete internatioanlly" When the talks failed he was sent by Mulroney to Washington to sign anything but sign. He did.

Joe Clark, another big supporter of the FTA said: " Unrestrained free trade the with the United States raises the possibility that thousands of jobs could be lost in such industries as textiles, furniture and footwear. Before we jump on the bandwagon of continentalism, we should strengthen our industrial structure so we are more competitive" He was correct. The FTA wiped out the industries mentioned and hundreds of others.

Mulroney is a pathological liar, who's incapable to distinguish fact from fraud, as long as he benefits. Chretien, in the same category, must have given him the Order of Canada for paving his way to the signing of the NAFTA in virtual secret.

What Mulronay deserved was the Order Out Of Canada. Ed Deak, Big Lake,

I remember that lying bastard spouting "Jobs, jobs, jobs" as the raison d'etre for a formal free trade agreement with the US. What he left out was that those "Job, jobs, jobs" would evaporate in Canada and be reborn down south. 85% of trade with our 'friendly' southern neighbours was already free (unemcumbered by duties) prior to our signing on to what is essentially a total surrender of our economic independence. Thanks to this foul-mouthed, toadying, lying shitface Mulroney we now are completely at the mercy of our yanqui overlords, and the 'branchplant' mentality has supplanted any and all real Canadian industry. This jerkoff should be remembered for what he really was - a Reagan-boot-licking purveyor of the grand neo-con agenda which has devoured our country in the past 20 years. Oh Canada indeed.

Right on Tommymoore.
Job! Jobs! Jobs! Ask those depending on the
forest industry in the early 80,s. A lot of
total losses, courtesy our "trading partners"
who are actually, "competitors."
And twenty years later BULLROONEY's legacy
continues.
Not that we have much to look forward to.
Martin shows his stripes by hiding his family's
assests behind a foreign flag. A true, blue,
CANERICAN.
And small wonder the other "Private Enterprise" party is showing such low standings in the polls. The Ghost of LyinBrian
still haunts their halls.

What a dickhead ol Brian truly was. evryone that votef ofr him back in th 80's ought to be slapped.

later..........

Another aspect of Lyin' Brian's legacy that shouldn't be forgotten is the fact that he presided over institutionalized government corruption so gross that it makes the current
"Sponsorgate" so abhorred by the MSM seem like young boys stealing apples from the neighbor's tree.

By the way, I'm rooting for those cracker lumberfolks down south who are challenging NAFTA on constitutional grounds. If the United States of Greed can't be in NAFTA, we thankfully can extricate ourselves from at least one of Brian's screw ups.

Canada need not worry about free trade. Canada has all kinds of things that everyone in the world needs and the more we diversify our customer base, thus reducing our dependence on the greedy evil idiots to the south, the better off we will be. Maybe we could also try to add more value to our still rich resources as well, especially here in BC.

rkewen- Your last post would make perfect sense if it weren't for the fact that Gordo is giving away everything that is of value in BC like a drunken sailor on a spree- or would that be a drunken politician?

Mulroney shaowed leadership in his decision not to rewrite Canada's abortion laws in the wake of the Supreme Court's decision that they were unconstitutional. He took a stand against the Apartheid regime in South Africa and successfully managed a divided caucus through a historic vote to uphold the abolition of capital punishment in Canada. He lowerd taxes and canecelled the dreaded manufacturing tax of 13% and replaced it with the GST.He got us Nafta which has made this country billions of dollars.
I never liked the man until I read his comments on Trudeau and Cretian. The man is right on.

None who lived through the Rye and Baloney years will ever forget him. He isn't called Lying Brian for nothing. This time he can se himself for besmirching his own reputation. The only thing of value he gave Canadians was the utter destruction of the Conshitheaded Party.

When Canada breaks apart by 2025, history will record that the start of the process began under Mulroney's watch. His lies and deceit, laid the foundation for future PM's standards. And what about his role in the airbus scandal?

Canada is fast becoming a world wode laughing stock and no one takes us seriously, especially the Americans.

Canada - no one stands on guard for thee!

What about his role in the airbus scandal. He was smeared by some of the lowest journalists on Canada and falsley accused by the Govt. of Canada. He sued the Govt. and won 10 million dollars as a settelment. So waht about his involvement ? And Grumpy, hopefully it won't take until 2025. Wild Rose Country free at last.

And Ron exposes the real agenda behind his support of Harper's Crew.

Hunter, right you are, I deal with this (Gordo's GiveAway) somewhat on Will McMartin's comment board for the "Thank You Ottawa" article.

My point was that due to the blessing of nature in real resources like oil,gas,wood and fiber,agricultural products, minerals etc. and our location on two oceans with easy access to Europe and Asia, we don't have to and indeed shouldn't become too dependent on the United States of Greed. Especially as they are headed for a complete economic meltdown if they continue down the path they are following. Also if we would start shipping less raw materials (raw logs, live cattle, bulk hydro) and using our talent and energy sources to process these gifts of nature here at home, Canada would be much stronger in many more ways than just the economic.

You're right on. The key to economic success and well being from the personal, family, community, regional to the national levels is self sufficiency to the highest degree. Complete self sufficiency is an impossible dream, but in Canada's case achieavable to a very high level.

We've been working on it and building it all our lives and now in our old age can reap the benefits, while others with our level of income are eating dogfood.

The purpose of globalization and the present neoclassical economic system of forced urbanization is to make people incompetent and totally reliant on the services thrown to them by corporations, stealing their eyes out.

Any number of jobs could be created with an investment under $15,000 per job. We've done it for many years. I started my first shop in Vancouver in 1957 with a $500. bankloan and was employing a dozen skilled tradesmen within weeks. Today $2. million investment is required for a simple mill job, so the benefits can be stripped and taken out of the country.

Ed Deak, Big Lake.

I'm with you Ron, the sooner we separate from this disfunctional confederation of misfits the better. They are all tax sucking crooks and these fools keep voting for them anyway. Time to go.

Ron
"What about his role in the airbus scandal. He was smeared by some of the lowest journalists on Canada and falsley accused by the Govt. of Canada. He sued the Govt. and won 10 million dollars as a settelment. So waht about his involvement ? And Grumpy, hopefully it won't take until 2025. Wild Rose Country free at last."

- Rick Mercer made a good point... for all of the embarassment and shame and hardache Mulroney went through.. Canadians only had to shell out less than a dollar each. Don't tell me you wouldn't throw away some change to make Brian look like a moron.

I am surprised these right wing business types don't see the folly of only having one customer? In this case the U.S. whose word is no longer it's bond.

Our manufacturing has disappeared we are mostly a resource economy with products wanted by the world. Yet the Ron Irwin's want only to sell to one. Does Canwest have one advertiser? Subscriber? What ever Ron does for a living does he or his employer have more than one customer? Does he go after new business with other potential customers?

Why is there such a fixation on dealing only with the americans?

The americans are the competition it is folly for our neocons to think U.S. intrests are our issues.

Brian Mulroney sold out Canada big time. Most of the people voted against his party in 1988 but he rammed the free trade agreement through. Hence the struggles of the current Conservatives, the people don't trust them with the country.

Ron, Mulroney got millions in an under the table deal. Stevie Cameron has reported it all and guess what, he hasn't sued her. Lie with dogs, Ron, and you get fleas.

jamez, Rick Mercer ???? Is this like our wacky Hollywood elite passing comments on Iraq ?
Actors don't necessarily make good political pundits.

Grumpy, Stevie Cameron, who wrote " On the Take " is now considered a plaque on journalism for this book. She has no credibility left and this is recognized by here peers. Bad exanple, unless you are looking for a laugh.

Nemesis, You're entirely correct re the Notwithstanding Clause. I've had it wrong since back in the days of the debates over the Accords.

I'm sure my friends must be tiring of hearing me rant on about the thrill of the near instant access to information made possible by the coming of the Web.

If ever there was a generation with a right to show intolerance for disinformation, it has to be today's.

Actually Ron, hollywood actors are multi-million dollar corporations. They meet the rich and powerful. They travel all over the world. Putting to-gether a movie or tv show takes a lot of organisation.

Their opionions should matter as much or moare as any member of the Fraser Institute(they're probably richer and better connected). You just don't like what they say so you denegrate.

R.E., are you getting so desperate for attention now, you have to dream up such obviously deliberate distortions??

Stevie got in the soup with journalists for revealing a recent source.

Though her Mulrooney book contains statements on literally every page which could be actionable if wrong, not a suit was ever launched.

I wanted to puke as I read it.....So give him the Order of Canada?? yeah, sure.

You know, there are some real benefits in being a second rate country.

Consider; 1) we can have a succession of venal buffons running the country and screw up noone but ourselves.
2)we can be reasonably assured of not being a primary target of terrorists - hell, maybe not a target at all.
3)we are treated to mouthbreathers like Celucci and Wilkins whom nobody takes seriously yet provide great entertainment.

Hey - ain't a half full glass a gas?

Ron Erwin, Stevie Cameron has been black-balled by the Canwest-Asper media. All those ass kissing, so-called jounelists, just want to hob nob with the powerful elites, which you seem to be a lick-spittal for.

Why didn't Mulroney sue her? Could it be she was telling the truth and Mulroney couldn't.

But those who identify with Mulroney and Co. are no better than street corner pimps. Corruption is so rank in this country that the public just shrug it off as a price of doing business.

Yes Ron, I have to go with the obviously sane people here who use their head for something besides a hatrack. The fact is as a few pointed out above, in simple form that you can understand.

1. Stevie Cameron did write all those things that make Lyin' Brian look like a crook.

2. Lyin' Brian was willing to sue the Government of Canada (thus suing you, me and all the other Canadians and taxpayers that he took an oath to serve), but hasn't said a peep about her allegations.

3. Logic compels me to conclude that her statements must be true, if he was willing to sue you and me over damage to his already non-existent reputation, but hasn't launched any action against her. I know she doesn't have as much money as Canada, but hey, it would be a matter of principle, you know to protect his wonderful rep.

4. As Grumpy pointed out, she mostly has been blackballed by CanWest and other toadying MSM excuses for journalists, which any real journalist would consider something to be proud about.

5. If you like Gordo, why not move south of the 49th, why worship a third rate imitation, live in the real land of the Gree... oops, I meant Free. In the United States of Greed left, liberal etc. are considered dirty words, unlike commie infested Canada in general and BC in particular. Try it, you'd probably love it.

Rafe's comment is basically correct. However, in Nova Scotia the Charlottetown Accord's defeat was not a surprise. By the late 1980s people there were becoing weary of Conservatives, both provincial and federal, and their lavish, hypocritical ways.

In reading Rafe's comment on the Charlottetown caper I'm struck by the similarity of the dynamic then with events in Nanaimo last year. Same tactics and equivalent actors on a small city scale. The only difference is that in Nanaimo the referendum squeaked through. WE are now looking at huge losses on a convention centre that has not even been built.

Like Mulroney, the boosters here never quit with their non-ending hype, their bullying tactics, even their threats. When the city does go deep into the red, like Mulroney, the boosters will blame everyone else for their own folly.

Canada survived Mulroney and Nanaimo will survive its current crop of ill-informed politicians, media moguls and the cliquey booster crowd that surrounds them.

But in both cases, just barely.

P. S. We attempted to get Rafe to pay attention to the multi-faceted Nanaimo farce a few months ago. It's still worth his attention because, sadly, it can happen most anywhere there is a press that refuses to accept its responsibility to report the news fairly and in a balanced manner, irrespective of its editorial stance. It is a truly pathetic spectacle when the media deserts the public interest and jumps on the boosterism bandwagon.

Why look ay Nanimo boondoogle. Vancouver has RAV. First cost estimates $1.2 billion, climbing to $1.5 billion, now $1.9 billion!

According to the news tonight, the Olympic venues are now climbing over estimates. Montreal anyone?

Anybody who ever thought that this Olympic nonsense will bring big monies to BC has been dreaming. Especially here in the Interior.

Expo 86 should have been a good lesson for Interior people. It has devastated local economies, because people flocked to see it and no tourists came here. It cost me $5,000. at the time, worth about $10,000 now, yet I wasn't even there. It was through lost business.

The Olympics won't necessarily draw money out from here, except for the amounting debts we too will have to pay for, but it won't bring a penny to our communities.

The government brings in these "gild edged" business types for advisors, without considering that they're not capable to think further than the next quarter. That's all their limited brains can conceive. The government's brains don't even reach that far.
Ed Deak, Big Lake.

Scylla; The notwithstanding clause was most infamously used by Quebec after the Quebec Court of Appeal ruled against their language laws, Bill 101, in the 80's. Other than that time, it hasn't really been used in any significant way, but is sometimes 'considered'. An example was when John Robin Sharpe's case was overturned by the B.C. Court of Appeal, even though he was busted with a house full of child pornography. In that case 90 federal liberals signed a letter of intent claiming they would vote to invoke the clause but when the time came the mighty Chretien ordered the Whip to keep them in line and they all backed down.

Oh Raif. You're the worst kind of hypocrite.

You made your money by cheating a legal client of yours out of land which you then parcelled and sold.

You have the ethical fortitude of a spider.

I sure wish Mulroney had done something about fish farms though. We'd be so much better off if he had.

The notwithstanding clause, btw, was also used in Saskatchewan in relation to back to work legislation. To my knowledge, the only use other than the much more well known quebec language law example.

I have to agree with Fiat Lux this time. As much as I love the Olympics, I fear that we will be saddled with a mountainload of debt when they are up, with security being a big part of that debt. I would hate to be left with 'Olympic Legacy' facilities which would wither away and die slowly.
Cheers

As far as I'm concerned, Mulroney should be tortured and shot for putting us in this postion of the FTA with the US. If it was totally free trade, we wouldn't be 'negotiating' to get the tariff money we paid them back. Mulroney failed Canada miserably in giving us a solid hand to play with when disputes, disputes he knew would happen, would come into play. As far as I'm concerned, we should deport and ship that big chin somewhere to hillbillyville, USA.

The charter would never have been signed by Alberta unless the not withstanding clause was in it.
Alberta has never used this clause although I am sure they were tempted by the odd queer marriage legislation.
Quebec is the only legislature to use it in order to deny english speaking Canadians in Quebec the language rights they were guaranteed in the Charter. Imagine if Alberta had done that to scuttle bilingualism ?
It will come up, so hold on to your seats.

rkewen, you want me to move to Winsdsor Ontario ???? I don't get it.

i think it's time both you and Rafe moved on to Windsor or anywhere far away !

Albertans would use the notwithstanding clause in a second if the courts tried to take away their right to ride in the back of a pickup truck. Some things are sacred.

Chevy, and what about if besides debt, the Olympics left us with embedded Patriot Act styled security forces?

Ever done it Chris? Maybe you should get out of your little classroom every once in a while teach.

tommymoore:

I remember him saying that we didn't have to manufacture things, because with FTA we could just buy them.

No one bothered to ask him with what?

PS. Of course, HE had Airbus money to use.........

I hate Mulrooney too.

If they could strip away that Indian guys order of Canada medal for speaking against the Jews
Mulrooney should lose his for betraying his countrymen to the obvious disaster of the FTA.

I believe we could also solve all our debt problems by sticking him in an electric chair and having a lottery on who gets to pull the switch. Video and teeshirt sails could put us well into the black. Business Council on Nation Interest's Free trade poster boy Steven Harper should be next.

I realize this is a very unCanadian line of thought but what else do you do with traitors?

Mooney' keep on talking buddy, it's adding credibility to those that disagree. Something like Cindy Sheehan.

That would be you and who else Ron?

Interesting definition of Kim Campbell as young, attractive, and very talented in 1993. She was my poli Sci prof in the mid '70s and was none of the above at the time, but I suppose that for some lucky folks with the aid of botox, plastic surgery, and a media remake anything is possible. Of course I don't know if she had any of the above... I understood that the slaughter in the polls was because of disgust with Mulroney's corruption.

Everybody goes on about our "Constitution", as if it really exists, and is of full force and effect. Trudeau failed to get the deal ratified, Mulroney tried twice, and he too failed, so, IMVHO, Canada does NOT have a legal, binding constitution. But, the "club" in Ottawa keeps running along as if they do, technically we are a ship without a rudder.

Again, IMVHO, Mulroney should be brought up on charges of treason, and dereliction of duty. But, these charges would be for violations of the "Constitution", which if it doesn't legally exist, allows him to get away with his shenanigans. He won two landslide Parliamentary victories, the second the biggest in history, and, thinking he was invincible, screwed this country flat. Now look at the disarray in his former Party, that is all his legacy, same as the Socreds, under the Zam, where are they now.

I say Kudoes to Peter Newman and Rafe Mair for reminding us all of the total mismanagment that this country suffered, under the watch of one Brian Mulroney.

Don F.

It's not "disarray", D Faulkner, it's just that someone's hid some of the bones for the skeleton Harper's trying to fit back together, and being a Reformer, he's got no idea where to look for them.

Kimmie was young and attractive.? Alas poor Rafe I guess age is affecting him. Or perhaps after all those years sitting near Grace McCarthy Kim did look quite good

Someone mentioned earlier that Rafe's largest contention was with the aborginal provisions of the Accord. And I well remember the day after day rants by Rafe in this regard. Yet interestingly it was Elijah Harper who killed it. Of equal interest has always been to me is the fact that Most Aboriginal leaders opposed it as well. Save for and except Mr Yvon Dumont of the Metis National council. And of course later Mr Dumont was made Lieutenat Governor of Manitoba by Lyin Brian. A connection there do you think? However in fairness Brian didnt always lie. Did he once not say give him a mandate and we wouldnt recognise Canada or something to that effect? and Lets nor forget that there have now been several back to back Liberal governments who despite a pledge to kill the Free trade agreement they now seem to engage it happily

I'm going to invoke the Canadian Constitutions Nothwithstanding clause to ban fish farms.

Except in Quebec, where they raise Distinct Fish.

Distinct fish, eh? Maybe we need a Royal Commission. They may have special rights.

Whatever, this all sounds pretty fishy to me.

mulroney: the ultimate douche-bag

hmmm.... you sound familiar benis.

Rafe brings back all the bad memories of Mulroney, and now I can't get the image of Ben Mulroney out of my head. Mulroney Jr., with his sucking up of star entertainers (as the elder to Ronald Reagan), reminds me why I hated the elder in the first place: a self-aggrandizing bullshitter as phony as a three dollar bill.

Shouldn't it be the Odour of Canada?

Like Seinfeld whenever he mentioned his loathsome neighbour's name, Mulroney these days is probably also growling "Newman!"