The one and only thing to remember is that there are no such things as "cost cuts", only "cost transfers" . It is a physical law that costs can not be cut, because monetary values are not realities, but temporary, often violence induced perceptions. Therefore, all economic and human actions have to be calculated in physical inputs. The real costs of physical inputs can be temporarily covered up with monetary manipulations, but ultimately they'll have to come out and demand payment.

E.g. When workers and services are cut "to save costs", the real costs automatically increase, because the fired workers must find new resource bases for their survival, while the benefits coming from the original resource base are diverted into the pockets of special interests. These actions create expanded demands on resources, which will automatically increase costs. The sale of resources is not an income, but a liability, therefore governments that account them as benefits are either stupid, or are misleading the public.

This is why we have daily increasing costs and worldwide increasing poverty, every time we go shopping since the cost cutting, automation hysteria started in the mid 70s. In the 20 years between 1955 and 75 living costs approximately doubled. In the next 20 years, since neoclassical market economics automation, mass firings became the rule, they increased by about 600%, and much more since with incomes just about stagnant. So much for cost cuttings.

Human labour doesn't cost anything to an economy, regardless what economists say.

Unfortunately, mislead by brainwashed economists, no political party is capable to understand such simple facts. In the case of the BCLibs, Libs and Conservatives, they have difficulty counting even their own fingers. The NDP may have a chance to wake up, but they too will have to do some housecleaning of dead brains.
Ed Deak, Big Lake.

The public service is still way too fat. It's not prudent to have so many people working for the government. Look at Ontario for instance. They are trying to steal Alberta's money and yet have done very little to curb Public Sector Unions. I mean do they really need a high priced union employee to sell you beer ? And what about all the social engineeering they attempt at the expense of their economy.
If Ms. Taylor is going to make a lasting impression on this province she will need to be a tough minister who continues the idealogical Conservative mission. We want to be like Alberta, not Ontario.

The author wrote:

...yet they broke the net-zero rule when they settled the college support staff dispute just before the election campaign, granting a modest wage increase in the third year, and some increases in benefits.

There's money there, but the impending dispute will be based on ideology and Campbell's personal animosity towards the BCTF. Children be damned....

yeh right ronny, had to have some papers processed lately, stood in a lineup, been on hold for ever, how many high paid parasites are on the doll lately, making 300k a year spinning crap like you like to spin?

How much did el gordo waste on his web portal while throwing people onto the street? Twenty four million. Still trying to drive a wedge between the west and the east so your masters can take over when Canada is divided, didn't you americans try something like this with Chavez, to get their oil and gas, why do we have to pay world prices for oil when it is ours? Article 601 of nafta states we cannot sell our natural resources for more then we ourselves pay, thats why.

So instead of berating the poor person at the gas station call up your mp and ask them about article 601, and to explain why we are paying over 5 dollars a gallon, it isn't all taxes!

I doubt most B.C. people want to be like alberta, what is so great about alberta anyway, they have oil but they also have huge growing pains and pollution pollution pollution. I work there a lot and believe me it is not so great. Lots of good people but the place has changed.

Edmonton has been getting smog alerts, do you like that, well then why don't you move there, is it true children are being charged an entrance fee of $50 to get into every grade in school? This while foreign owned oil companies are making a killing? ON OUR OIL!

Btw I can remember when albertans were flocking here by the thousands looking for work, willing to work less then some one else to steal their job, a buddy was running bridge job and several of them came up to him and said how much are these guys getting we will work for $2 less an hour, he told them to get lost.

No, Mr. Erwin, we do not want to be like Alberta; you want to be like Alberta.

It's understandable why Carol Taylor was so quick to leave the CBC for greener pastures. Look at the mess it's in now. I doubt we'll see anything different than the status quo from her as Finance Minister.

I wondered why the cbc was going so easy on the b.c. liberals! Putting in the word for the future party earning brownie points with the new boss in the process? More blatant misuse of public funds, not upset about it as long as it's for your side eh ronny?

CBC ? see discoverthenetworks.org, quite left wing.

Ron Irwin, I'm beginning to think you are Gary Collins.

Ontario is in trouble because it has public servants selling beer?

Please, please Ron, explain because I have a couple of concerns about your point here.

The first is that I understand Ontario sells beer through Brewer's Retail stores. At least they did when I lived there and beer was $5 for a 24.

Now I'm not certain if the employees are government or industry workers, but I do know that Brewers Retail has always enjoyed good profits and the Ontario government has always enjoyed good tax revenues from it.

As far as the Ontario government liquor stores go, I undersand that system is the largest in the world and one of the most profitable for the province. Those civil servants turn a tidy profit Ron.

So are you suggesting Ontario give that profitable enterprise away to capitalist profiteers like the former Tory government tried to do with Ontario Hydro?

Look Ron, I don't mind you coming on Tyee and humouring us once in a while, but please stay away from the economics and do stay as far as you can from inter-provincial relations until you you can distinguish them from inter-state highways.

I don't want to be like Alberta Ron... that place sucks.
As long as I'm making crappy money and paying taxes, I want my god damn taxes put to use for stuff that I need.

Allan; gee, I am honoured that you " don't mind me coming on the Tyee" That really makes my day.
Ontario is a basket case that will attempt to drag down Old Canada, but this will not occur, sorry to tell you this.

didn't ontario have a conservative running the place for years? I would suggest it is their incompetence, at least the libs here in lotusland were blaming the ndp for years and years and well you get the point.

oh yes ronny what do you mean by Old Canada, are you suggesting there is a new Canada waiting in the wings, like the new era which is double speak for new world order!

Mew World Order ? Isn't that some kind of wrestling thing ? I don't care for the WWF.

Is Ron Erwin a Tyee virus? Does Ron Erwin have a job? Are my taxes supporting Ron Erwin to sit on his ass at a computer and make this site sick?

I have a suggestion for Ron Erwin. Take your warring attitude and use it for good. Join the military. I hear they're looking for some cannon fodder to protect all those things you seem to want protected.

look it up ronny I did and this is one of the sites I checked out lol.

http://www.cuttingedge.org/news_updates/nz1086.htm

Ron, dear, while I appreciate the checks and balances of having commentary from across the ideological spectrum, your knee-jerk reactions are getting truly tiresome. Have you ever considered actually thinking before posting the party line?

As Allan pointed out, liquor sales are more of a cash cow for the Ontario government than a drain. The profits fund schools and hospitals and thus help all Ontarians, vs. a privatized operation, which would only provide windfall profits to enrich a few. As a union operation, it also provides stable, decent-paying jobs that allow families to raise kids, send them to university, etc. and to meet their needs, thereby also supporting the private sector.

People like you forget that if you had your way and killed all those union jobs, killed public education and trashed the middle class, you'd be detroying the very market upon which your precious private enterprise depends.

You seem to walk around with this massive Hate-On, this obsessive hatred of unions and government and "The Left" because some union negotiator once did his job and had the gall to secure a sweet deal for his clients, depriving some unfortunate business owner of his God-given right to get rich quick, or perhaps costing tax payers a few more dollars each a year. Good grief, if we wrote off everyone who ever conned us or overcharged us, we'd have to shut down the whole economy tomorrow!! It's simply not rational.

Do you react with the same vitriol every time you buy something from a store and find out that you could have bought it cheaper in Alberta, or in a competing store, or if you'd waited until the sale began next week? Do you go downtown with the shotgun loaded every time you find out that your mutual fund manager traded a stock from your portfolio that subsequently went up?

The Ontario Loquor Board would continue to even more revenue if it privatized their beer and liquor stores. They still have a manopoly, they could cut down on their labour costs. But's that their business until they come knocking on Alberta's door to rob their money.

"come knocking on albertas door"

is this an admission that you do not reside in Victoria like you claim to have been doing for 28 years?

...OK, so back to the Finance Minister. As taxpayers we should be aware that many of the cuts made in recent years (and not just under the Liberals, though they vastly accelerated the process) are a case of short-term gain that will only give us long-term pain.

It was recently revealed, for example, that we now have some 7,000 children with various special needs on waitlists for early intervention services. A Liberal-dominated legislative committee concluded last fall that cuts to special education in recent years need to be restored. Cuts to the Ministry of Children and Families have put children and families at risk and put troubled teens out on the streets. These are all kids who, with the right supports, could grow up to be successful contributing, tax-paying members of our society.

By turning our backs on them and setting them up for failure, we are encouraging lifelong dependence, crime, addiction and a host of social evils that will cost us far more in the long run than the paltry tax savings generated today.

We can look at the many other aspects of government operations that have been cut -- environmental protection, welfare, parks, forestry, etc -- and see the same patterns. Worse still, we've cut the watchdog roles that alert us to the risks posed by these cuts, and those should be the first to be fully restored, and then beefed up some more -- Auditor General, Ombudsman, Children's Commissioner, etc.

Costs can not be cut down, only transferred on others. When labour costs are cut, the workers pay with lost living standards.

The problem with todays's self proclaimed conservatives is that they ain't none. When a certain sector is given unlimited exploitation powers over others its is called fascism. Ed Deak, Big Lake.

throw in high gas prices and the economy will slow, inflation will cause the feds to increase interest...

oops increase interest rates...

Yes, Ursus, does anyone else feel like we're re-living the seventies in many ways? Everyone ran to Alberta for the big boom and then fled when it all went bust.

There are of course difference this time around -- any thoughts on those?

we had it pretty good in construction during the seventies, usual ups and downs, 78 was pretty slow the shipyards were busy so we weren't going to alberta like now. In the early eighties after bennet got in that was a different story, ended up in Ontario for six years and there were lots of albertans there then.

The big difference is this, we didn't go to another province and try to undercut the locals to take their jobs supplying kerkoff tnl ledcor etc with skilled labour willing to work cheap!

boy i sure feel sorry for that ms taylor. she's gonna have a real tough job. gosh, she might even get a wrinkle or two.

what i pile of crap. she'll be living like the queen of england and then acting like she cares about the poor when the camera is rolling. she's a trained spin doctor and she'll spinning gordo's lies better than anyone else.

Ontario has a manopoly?

What's his name?

Shes a Liberal...already makes her an ineffective representative for BCs financial affairs. ( since liberals dont really represent " ordinary citizens " ) latest face in a press release ..nothing more.

I think any decent government should concentrate on paying off our debts before cutting taxes or spending. Now I don't mean to be ageist, or discriminate against those on the verge of retirement, but balanced budgets mixed in with years of deficit, means young Canadians such as myself risk paying for all the luxuries of today. So those who don't plan on taxes for the next 40 years, should have less to say about the way we spent our $$ than those who do.

When we think about the blooming debt, we should put a hold on spending and aim to not balance our budgets, but payoff our debt. A balanced budget when the interest rates are low like they are currently means squat when the interest payments start rising again.

And for ever $ we are in debt, some rich Chinese investor may just be claiming a portion of our future, the Americans are in the same boat, we don't own our country anymore, we are borrowing it.

So heres my word, but those extra $$ into buying back those bonds. Put a limit on issuing future bonds to citizens, and once we got a clean slate as far as credit goes, head back to the WAC Bennett principle of spend as you go.

No more tax cuts, no more giveways, until our future is in our own hands.

Carole Taylor, another 'pork barrel' Liberal elitest will have no problems as finance minister, she'll just smile away, as she down loads taxes on us.

She might be from Vancouver, but she's an Eastern "we are better than you" type, who was granted a high paying federal 'pork barrel' job and only came out to BC to help save Campbell's (or should I say the Liberal's) ass in the last election.

A yesterday's politician, working for a yesterday's political party.

When was the last time anybody argued which was better, a Chevrolet(not a Chevy)or a Ford? At one time a Plymouth would have been part of that equation. Just like all Japanese cars look Japanese and domestic cars (the ones that are not made in Japan)also look Japanese except for the odd gas guzzling Chrysler 300, I will just say that there seems to be no difference to me among the political parties of this country. If the New Democrats would only call a spade a spade an re-name themselves the New Democratic Left Party (NDLP) and bring back respect to the word left, I don't se much change happening here. Unless of course you start studying our leaders and finding out what they are like and figuring out that what matters more in 2005 is not political leaning (they all seem to be in the middle) but their or their lack of it.

I am not part of any liberal elite but I can tell you that having known Carole Taylor for about 23 years, the woman that so many people here attack (it would seem just on looks and on the fact that she happens to have money), is not the woman described with such vitriol in these posts.

what may have ticked people of here Alex is the fact she was in a position to influence the media, to influence the outcome of the Provincial election as many people who are tired of canwest listened to CBC RADIO and watched CBC NEWS.

Then we find out that this Carol person is going to be running for el gordo's party after all the pain he has caused the less fortunate in our society, giving a 2 Billion dollar a year tax break to his rich friends and supporters at the same time. Selling off big chunks of the Province to his foreign friends? Hardly what one would expect a supposedly kind and compasionate woman to wish to be a part of!

If she followed her own newscasts she would know the pain and suffering happening in this Province and could only want to be a part of it if she agrees with his idiotology so why should we be nice to her under these circumstances, she is another wolf in sheeps clothing.

If she had gone to the NDP or Greens I would have respected her for having the guts to fight for the under dog, knowing full well she might not get elected. By joining the liberals she was almost guarenteed to win and get a nice big portfolio after all the tax payers money media lies and bias, and corporate advertising spent to get gordo re-elected.

Business gave the liberals almost 8.9 million to run their election campaign this year. It is my opinion the CBC has treated gordo with kids gloves and that is not forgiveable, ten years ago they would have eaten him, this while she is in charge? Is this her reward for helping him, almost looks like it if you consider what has happened and ignore the rhetoric.

Maybe she was 'reborn'.

To the possible ageist:

Pay down the debt? I would sugest we don't pay the debt and let the creditors come and try and take the assets away!

Oh wait, then the country/provinces/cities/towns will not be able to borrow more!

What should we do?

Worried about retirement, it won't matter, the present day economy will have collapsed by then. If you are worried you had better learn how to grow food, fish, hunt and be a good neighbor (helping hands).

Will you be my neighbour?

I don`t have much of a comment, only that I would like to lower Ron Erwin`s wages.

Jesus, do they have to use such a blur on her photo? As a student of photoshop, I'm all too aware of the effect they're going for -- and it's none too subtle. Heaven forbid we actually see wrinkles.

I'm still giggling about Ontario's "manopoly"

Is this to be dreaded, like the westward drift of West Nile or Martin-style Liberalism, or is it potentially a powerful new marketing tool for Ontario tourism, like the gay marriage/wedding industry?

Freebear, by that time, not only will I be loaded with debt, and possibly be someones endentured servant, but all the fish and wildlife will be gone. And quite frankly, cannibalism doesn't sound too appealing,

We seem to be caught between two economic forces, the cut taxes and sell off my birthright of the "right", and increase welfare, spend more on social services, spend more on this, hire more unions, create more bureacracy of the "left". I'm sick of pre-provincial election spendinng sprees undertaken by both the liberals and the ndp before them. I don't want lower taxes, I want to know that I have a future, and I don't want to pay a sizable chunk of my income paying interest on our government loans, I pay enough on my own loans as is.

Dangrice:

I really appreciate your point about wanting to know that you (and the rest of us I hope!)have a future.

To me, that is what is missing in politics, be it local, provincial, or federal.

Where are the visions? What are the goals that "we" as a country, province, city, town have?

Apparently the vision is to sell "our" resources as quickly as possible, develop land into pavement, over priced houses, another mall, etc.

My hope is that the coming (if not already here) oil shock will revise "our" vision.

Interesting point: I was revisiting an article from the Sun (save your Sun comments for another thread) about the Urban Development Institute (Pacific) hosting a conference to define sustainabiity. I recently asked if the Institute had a definition of sustainability, or a position paper on sustainabiity. Their response was that they did not have a position, or definition, but the proceedings of the conference were available, well actually for sale!

Greed is going to kill life on this spaceship called EARTH!

Oh yes, Carole Taylor with the "killer resume" eh? Let's not forget that most of her resume consists of APPOINTED positions. She got elected to Vancouver City Council on the coattails of her husband, a previous mayor of the city, and then shot like a rocket to a series of CEO positions. She's just window-dressing.

One other thing, she was Chair of the CBC Board of Directors when CBC Vancouver News Staff doctored one of George W. Bush's few press conferences to make him look like a masterful speaker. They cut out Bush's real (sputtering, unintelligble) response to a reporter's question and substituted a statement he had read from a prepared text earlier in the press conference. CBC Vancouver introduced the piece as Bush responding strongly to reporters' questions, then played their bogus version. They had to recant when a complaint was made to the CRTC (Canadian Radio and Television Commission), and sent an email admitting their "error." But the public was never informed that they broadcast a lie, and no one lost their job over this little "error." Who was in charge of the CBC then, and who would almost certainly have been informed of this breach of ethics? Why, Carole Taylor, "boss" of the CBC at the time.

Keep that in mind, anytime in the future, if you're wondering just how much sleight of hand might be going on under her watch as Finance Minister (it's quite laughable). Yah, Alex, she might be nicey-nice at arts soirees, but watch the hands, follow the money. She's a carpetbagger in designer frocks looking out after #1.

I recall one of her eye-rolling statements during the election "I just want to serve." She didn't say who she wanted to serve, mind you. Maybe to help continue the tax cuts for her and others of similar financial standing? If she wanted to "serve" why didn't she take on some volunteer position at a food bank, or a homeless shelter, or an AIDS hospice? She could certainly afford to do that. But, oh no, when Carole Taylor says she just wants to serve, that means a fat salary and a position where she can wield power.

Apart from her looks, there is nothing to recommend that woman that I'm aware of. Appointed positions don't count.

Re: the question of debt - Nationally. Did you realize that we pay $95,000,000. PER DAY in interest?That translates to $36,000,000,000.00 - that`s Thirty-six Billion Dollars a year in interest payments. That is Three times the budget for armed forces, and more than ALL the money given to the provinces for health care and equalization COMBINED!!!

Maxwell, thats exactly why our first priority should be getting rid of the debt. While I think the federal liberals are as corrupt as anything, I do think they at least installed a good measure that says that any surplus over the budget predictions can only go to debt repayment. Now if only they focussed a little more aggresively across the board, they could reinvest the interest savings and put a long term rather than short term vision in place.

This so called debt is the biggest racket. The bank of Canada Act provides interest free loans for any level of government. With bank deregulation in 1991, Mulroney gave the banks free hand to create any amount of capital out of fresh air. Every penny the banks create is a debt on society, because all monies are a form of national debtand all monies belong to the country. People and businesses don't own the money int their pockets, or accounts, but are only using it.

This means that our governments accept the debts passed on by the banks on society, then borrow the money back that already belongs to us. Does this make any sense to anobody ?

Canada's debt could be retired in 6 months by the Bank of Canada paying it off to the private loaners and then reissue it to the government interest free. This way the payments made by the government would almost totally go into repayment and apart from some service charges, not into paying interest on monies we already own. Ed Deak, Big lake.

I for one will look forward to seeing if Ms Taylor has the minerals for the job. She will be getting it from all sides and will certainly not be able to please everybody. Sorry Carole, this is not going to be champagne and cucumber sandwiches at a Point Grey garden luncheon... We will all soon see if she has in fact, been promoted to her own level of incompetance. Only time will tell and I am sure going to enjoy watching her squirm....

to bad a certain fiery little red head isn't going to be there to break her in proper, el gordo and company are hopefully in for a really rough ride, I hope James turns out to be a real pit bull in the ledge.

Digging her teeth into el gordo's lies and ripping them to shreds!

Maybe Carole will call in Glennocchio to help her find a little wriggle room. Or perhaps Elizabeth the moron Cull will lend a hand. Either way we're in much better shape now than we were in the 90's.

The one thing I like about you red hot Gordonites is that you never say anything worthwhile on the subject, but are trying to be funny. Which you definitely are by showing your ignorance and programmed cliches. Ed Deak, Big Lake,

You're changing the world from your little hideout Ed.

At least I'm trying to do something worthwhile instead of filling the air with platitudes and ideological propaganda. Try to read sometime and look for the facts from all angles. Ed Deak.

Worthwhile? How's that Eddy? Blathering leftist nonsense from your keyboard? Only other Jack Layton worshippers are listening.

what are you doing that is worth while nemisis? Preaching the right wing neo con nonsense with no proof to back it up is not productive put your points out their for debate, if you have any. How is giving tax breaks to corporations cutting on health and education good for us? I have a kid in school and I would like to see gordo crash and burn in disgrace o that one alone.

oops cutting back on health care and education.

Could you define what "leftist" is ? You see, I've lived under every known political ideology in 4 countries and have never known any leftists ,or rightists, as the claim of ignorant people goes. All I found were the exploiters who are waving all kinds of ideological flags to excuse and perpetrate their crimes and the exploited, for whom it makes no difference under what flag they get screwed. Like the people of Iraq and New Orleans. Under how many ideologies did you live, nemesis, that you know so much of the subject without saying anything ? Ed Deak, Big Lake.

Once again, we have the subject of an article hi-jacked by the childish, insult-hurling types who desperately want to earn brownie points with their chosen party. I applaud someone like Ed Deak, who doesn't hide behind a pseudonym, and obviously does a great deal of work to become knowledgeable about many important issues. Who is nemesis anyway? Likely another one of Gordon Campbell's staff, whose job descriptions seem to include inpersonation for the purposes of misleading the public.

I understand The Tyee has to purge input that may contain libel, threats, and such, but I wish they'd do something about the utterings from those like nemesis who are obviously interested only in distracting the rest of us from the subject matter of each article.

I've taken to just scanning past input from the "distractors" and I'd sure like to see others ignore them too. Let's stay on topic so we can have a good discussion on the key issues, not just sling rhetoric at one another. Ed Deak, you're too good to waste time debating them.

Sunny; Are you delusional, paranoid, or both? Again so typical of the lefties these days; anyone who disagrees must be in collusion with gordo, and of course they should be shut up asap. Do you realize how ridiculous you sound?

so menesis do you agree with selling terasen, b.c. rail and allowing an american company access to our medical records? Giving big tax breaks to those who least need it in the hopes that everyone might get a few crumbs while closing hospital beds?

The scariest thing about this blog is learning that Ursus has re-produced!! Can`t we control the gene pool a little better than this???

Hey maxwell is that the best you can come up with, if you agree with the sale of our assets to american corporations?

Ursus; Do you believe in free enterprise?

free enterprise works with safeguards, there are no safeguards in place it is greed run rampant nothing less, ceo and upper level management are sucking us dry for every ounce of blood they can get.

paul martin gave them a 4.7 billion dollar tax break almost immediatly after getting elected and now we don't have enough money for education or healthcare, no sh!t sherlock!!! el gordo did the same thing here then cut back on our government services and sell us to the americans!

They expect the people who actually do the work that makes them look good to work for less and less, while giving themselves huge bonuses when the company makes record profits on the backs of the environment working people and future generations.They are a bunch of spoiled parasites in my opinion.

Go to the web site of the ceo's of Canada and look at what they are bragging about, free trade nafta and further intigration with the americans, when is enough enough, when we are flying american flags in Canada, oh right we already do that don't we.

http://www.ceocouncil.ca/

On thetyee

http://www.thetyee.ca/Views/2005/02/22/ForOurOwnGood/

We are wiping out our boreal forests so the profiteers can make money during the softwood lumber debacle, another sweet heart deal good for the corporate heads at the expense of our sovereignty and the future of our children.

Yes I do support free enterprise if balance and substainability are considered first and foremost.

Wipe out a salmon bearing stream and get sued by those whose livelihood is destroyed. Right now as an example a trapper or guide whose area is clearcut has no recourse, so much for free enterprise eh.

Big money has such niceties as chapter 11 if I recall correctly which gives investors the right to sue municipalities or environmentalists if they stop some environmentally devistating project in their backyards.

For example in Mexico a small village is being sued by an american company for stopping a chemical disposal plant from being built in their back yard. I believe they felt their health if not their lives were at risk if they allowed it to go through. This is free enterprise for the chosen few!

Going to the issue of employees at the liquor store...It is not they who are the problem. They do a decent day's work. They get paid a living wage and they pay taxes. The real problems with that division of government relate to all the red tape of the managers in the offices of the liquor distribution branch. The branch puts itself in direct competition with its licensed agents and no-one knows whether "Agent 1058" collects commission just like all the others and, if so, who pays it and how much, where it is paid and to whom.

Some of Gordo's MLAs have been told all about it but, as with the previous government, nothing is ever done about it. Why?

And discussing the BCTF, Carole Taylor and the wisdom/rationale for giving teachers a modest raise...bloggers have left out the one single factor that will have the most influence - the mean-spirited, ideological determination of Gordon Campbell to crush every last union member beneath his feet. There is a good reason why the phrase "policy wonk" has stuck to him - it's because, for him, human beings don't exist. The only things real to him are the post-it notes he plays on his wall like a war game.