Campbell is an overrated windbag, a media gadfly, and bully who has achieved little, except for splitting COPE and increasing drug use on the East side.

Vancouver much better off without him.

Look at RAV, he sold out to the Liberal & West side interests, by not using the Arbutus Corridor and instead opting for a cut-and-cover subway which will destroy businesses along its route. And what will happen if Vancouver must compensate ruined business owners? The coward that he is, will be long gone.

RAV may well be his sad footnote in history, the Mayor who didn't have the moral fortitude to stay and defend his bad decision.

If he gets a rumoured Senate seat, we will know why - RAV! Liberals always reward their lick spittals!

Campbell - good bye and don't ever come back!

Perhaps he could have himself declared Supreme Leader. Then the TV series could be "reimagined" as DaVinci's Inquisition.

I thought he was quitting due to ill health, not a desire to crush his enemies, see them driven before him, and hear the lamentations of the women.

If he does go into federal politics, maybe he will be the minister of pot. Then his place in history will be assured. Yay Larry!

Don't let the door hit on you on the way out Larry. It always amazes me who the media
Picks up as their hero, usually a pig headed arrogant goof who cries like a baby every
Time he does not get his way. Every time Larry talks it seems like he is some kind of
Profit , it is actually quite disturbing. Larry gained power by allot of good folks and
Massive support from the working poor and east Van who supported him. He has basically shit
On his supporters from the start and been a huge disappointment, no wonder the media loves
Him, the city of Vancouver was controlled by a bunch of lefties who's leaders sells out
In a minute. Larry is a disappointment and a moral coward. Lets review his record.

1) He demands a plebiscite for the Olympics and then goes around supporting them. Who cares about the
Cost etc , lets have a great 10 day party 6 years from now. Sorry most folks who demand to a referendum on something because their worried about the cost do not end up supporting it. I think he turtled under media pressure. Larry has some good media shots etc.

2) He cast the deciding vote on the slots at Hastings Park, sorry but more poor people gambling is what East Van really needs. Oh and F... Off all you concerned citizens groups.

3) He voted to increase transit fares which affect the poor the most. He said the group opposing this was a bunch of losers to a very grateful media.

4) He supported RAV, selling out to west side interest and supporting a P3 that is going to cost 2 billion plus.

5) He supported Wal Mart, hey independents fo f.. Yourself Vancouver needs more monster cookie cutter retail.
And now everyone is saying he just has to quit because COPE is way to radical for him, and that the whole party will now collapse. Larry is arrogant prick who considers how he looks before doing the right thing.

This is why the left aways fails , Weak leaders who get scared under pressure. Bye Little Larry in your smart car.

Of course the hard core ideology of the left wing COPE did not help! Radicalism never works.

Don't leave us Larry! We'll miss you. Of course, you were never a left wing tree hugging, socialist dork like the rest of COPE, you were a libertarian, business oriented leader, with a soft side liberalization policies.

You became a shepherd to a the leftist sheeps, while us carnivors waited for our lamb chops, ah bring me my souvlaki!

You led a defeated mla and a bunch of nobodies to a political coupe, and probably never read the cope policy book before signing on, but who cares, you were never the statesman, but who wouldn't take fame when handed to them? I at first thought you were a smug, silly, person, who didn't really no much about politics, i soon began to love you for that fact. you split and dived the coalition of the wonky, you let them have their pet projects--organic food, antiwar committees--while doing your best to keep real policies entact.

ah well, so long, peter ladner will be the next mayor, and will sweep it with 10 right wing nobodies on his coat tails. the only question is will Jim Green start his own party, run three candidates, and break the at large slate, or will he run for mayor, get greedy. remember that the media darling always wins. campbell was one, and ladner, well when you used to own biv, it really doesn't hurt.

Since only about 30% of eligible voters actually did vote in the last municipal election, it is hard to see the process as legitimate.
Jim Green for mayor? Why? Why not Ann Roberts who is just as well educated and does not look like she will rub you out if crossed.
By the way, Larry might support RAV but it was the province that kept forcing it on to the agenda when we thought it was dead.
Running it on the Arbutus corridor might sound good to some who want to stick it to the affluent, but would it increase ridership?
Grumpy- do you have evidence that drug use has increased or is that a knee jerk reaction?

Camgra; you bet, as a former merchant in Vancouver, I could see the drug fiasco first hand. I'm not a right-wing wingnut as I believe drug addiction is a medical problem and never in the history of mankind has a medical problem been solved by putting people in jail. Campbell led the charge for shooting galleries and now what we have - rampant drug sales through out the downtown core.

As for RAV, a man from Siemens, one of the bidders on RAV, said to me that "he felt they could garner more ridership with LRT on Arbutus, rather than a mini-metro subway under Cambie St." BUT RAVCo. PREVENTED THEM FROM PUTTING FORWARD SUCH A BID!

This is why RAVCo. took Arbutus off the bidding process, with a bogus study before the bidding process started. The public were never allowed to hear or view what the 'real' experts would do! Althsolm was so furious with RAVCo. that they left the bidding process early -'fools and their money are easily parted'.

Good ole' boy Larry cheered RAV on and on to secure West side money for his 'Friends of Larry Campbell' selling out regional taxpayers in the process. But polls showed he would win, but not anyone else hanging on to his coattails: eh Jim Green? Just look what is happening with Seattle's monorail $2 billion ballooning to $11 billion - what will be the real cost of RAV Larry?

Larry Campbell, political coward could not stand the heat. I shed no tears for him!

"Of course the hard core ideology of the left wing COPE did not help! Radicalism never works."

You think Radicalism never works, ask Gordo. He is the most Radical insidious man around , just right wing radicalism. People who cared gave Larry the win, it took Larry 5 min to shit on them. He had a mandate to do something radical for the less fortunate of this city but did nothing but set up a few free drug sites. He became a moral coward once elected so people like dangrice.com would not call him names. He ran around town with Gordo , Martin and others promoting the games while stepping over homeless people and insulting advocates for transit and pushing the most expensive wasteful project the Rav line. (425 mil already in the hole) not to mention many small business owners will be gone in the next few years. Oh Well more space for McDonalds and Starbucks, radicalism works. He should have came in with the mandate he had and make massive change happen. Who cares about the name calling, anyone who acts gets called names , usually by folks who love the status quo and do nothing but watch the world pass by and pretend their helpless. We need more radicals who give 2 shits about others not more radical wooden dicks like the ones at the Fraser institute who guide Gordo.

So Larry sold out
" Don't leave us Larry! We'll miss you. Of course, you were never a left wing tree hugging, socialist dork like the rest of COPE, you were a libertarian, business oriented leader, with a soft side liberalization policies."

to folks like this.

"right wing, chase to the bottom, capitalist whores who don't give 2 shits about their fellow man
If it does not affect them directly, hoping that trickle down tax cuts from the wealthy will feed the
World contrary to any facts that show otherwise. " GO be with dangrice.com Larry and stop pretending your someone your not.

poor larry. he thought he was an enlightened lefty, until he saw the cope idiots at work. poor lefties, they're hooped.

Stuart, there is a difference between tackling homelessness and drug abuse, and having a city council passing motions regarding ballistic missiles, the war on iraq, air india inquiry, etc.

Where did Campbell fail in his mandate? He never had a mandate to stop the olympics (the referendum was an off the cuff promise on the election road which cost the city a bundle), had he ran on stopping them, I'm sure he never would have been elected. In fact most of COPEs mandate was to keep Phillip Owens course on the drug policy.

You can wish for all the pipe dreams you want, but without a stable economic engine, problems would get worst rather than better, no matter how radical you are.

i'll miss larry. he's been the only breath of fresh air in years. it's nice to sea someone get frustrated and pissed off with the process like larry. other pros would just smile and continue to be front men for property developers. i'd like to see tim louis be the next mayor.

Being a "radical lefty" to much opinion, especially the "Liberal Neoconazi" Brownshirts of the sdgreen and Sirj in drag ilk, who like to hang around here for the devilment of it, from time to time, I was never much impressed with Larry Campbell-, who proved himself really to be much more of an "establishment bent player" wannabe, trying to dress himself up in the sheeps clothing of a lefty. He couldn't be The Emperor he really wanted to be, so he's gonna leave-, unless NPA has an offer it wants to make. (Watch for it. :-)

Anyway, hope to read much more insider/COPE opinion here of The Emperor's decision to put his pants back on and leave the orgy. (Difficult to get taken seriously at an orgy with a soft-on in any case.)

That media star Da-Vinci Campbell could even pass as a left-winger in the first place, actually says more about what passes for the "left" in these "compromised" times, than it does Campbell.

But that's an "outside" left-winger looking in view.

I don't know, but suspect he was the NDPs darling-, probably still is, not? They having this long noted preference for "marketable fluff" over real substance. It'd be interesting to, again, hear some more knowing opinion on that.

"i'd like to see tim louis be the next mayor".
you win the laugh of the month award for that one billy. thanks so much.

Coyote, come on, even you got to see the similarities between Campbell and Emperor Palpatine. (Besides the similarities in look between scottish actor Ian McDiarmid and big L). Benevolent Senator, secretly practicing the arts of the dark side, fractioning the lovely republic, only to bring in the NPA storm troopers.

The truth is Campbell could have ran for either NPA or Cope, or even independent, and Vancouver would have voted for him. The question in his future, what party does he want to be premier under?

I think with Campbell - the emporer had no clothes. The right wing flat earh society would have us think Sam Sullivan and Peter Ladner are best bets! What a joke.

By the way tim louis would make a good mayor, he is fiscally sane.

Poor old Larry, so used to talking to the dead, didn't realize that the living could think. I'm afraid when the dust settles, Larry 'the leisure suit' Campbell, media gadfly, will be just dust in the wind. A footnote in Vancouver's history. A political dud.

Like him or not, Larry's got his legacy. Olympics, Woodwards, RAV, were all done under his watch. But unless the left can pull another spade out of their deck, don't think they can keep council. The NPA only lost last time because Owen was pushed out. Remember, there are a lot more people who own homes in Vancouver that there are homeless.

But I'm not sure T. Louis would run for Mayor, nor Sullivan. Sullivan is too active in disabled sports and pushing his sailboat designs. I'm not sure Louie would risk losing his spot on council. The only ones I see on council with high ambition are Ladner, Stevenson, and Green, but I see Stevenson running federally, now that he's twice defeated provincially. Green would love to buck heads with Campbell. As long as Ladner keeps the 4 pillars in place, he should be able to take it. Howe already eats out of his hand, which will give him his war chest. He's also sold BIV now, so he looses all the COI he had to worry about earlier.

...someone said it in the comments above--Larry didn't bother to read the policy book when he signed on with COPE. Or if he did, as Burgess points out, he likely figured he was above all that.

I wouldn't for a moment suggest that his was an easy job. We all had our own adamant views on RAV, Olympics, etc, but from where they sat on City Council, the issues were complex, and they knew that as many people were sitting on the sidelines with the sharpened knives on one side as the other. The mark of a good leader is being able to bring most people together (or at least your own team!) to the best possible compromise.

The popular myth that Larry, his Friends and the NPA are spinning like crazy now is that COPE Classic was too "ideological" to achieve those sorts of compromises. But we all heard how Larry dealt with his critics in public--imagine how he dealt with internal criticism when the cameras weren't rolling!!

Sorry, I don't buy his victim act for a minute. Larry was looking for fun and glory and he got out because a) he realized it wasn't as much fun as it looked and b) he realized he'd burned too many bridges, backed himself into a corner and wasn't going to be able to achieve anything further that might count as glory and c) he was smart enough to recognize a good exit strategy when he saw one.

Watch for him in the Senate or perhaps as an Ottawa backbencher -- a nice comfy job where he can schmooze with the big boys and be as far away as possible from the unwashed masses and hard work of real politics.

Grumpy,

You wrote:

"Look at RAV, he sold out to the Liberal & West side interests, by not using the Arbutus Corridor and instead opting for a cut-and-cover subway which will destroy businesses along its route. And what will happen if Vancouver must compensate ruined business owners? The coward that he is, will be long gone."

I can never forget this quote - just the city councillor to whom it is attributed: "There's no planning, just deals.

NIMBYism has taken much of the blame, but it is a cop-out that serves the contractors and the "dealers". No matter what route was decided on, it should have been elevated as is the majority of SkyTrain's track system, and neither cut-and-covered nor tunneled.

Though I live in Delta (not yet served directly by SkyTrain) I strongly support this public transit system and the Lower Mainland sharing its costs. Those costs are however, in my opinion, much inflated by an incompetent TransLink Authority that appears contemptuous of the taxpayer it clearly believes exists to be milked.

I think Larry just got tired of the left wing goumbas he needed support from for his agenda. I can`t blame him - I`m tired of them myself.

Ann Roberts on Vancouvers 7th pedestrian death this year - Lower the speed limit to 25k/h. Now there`s a bureaucratic mind at work. Make new laws that are unenforcable.

We`re being overrun by junkies and homeless. Why? Because in Vancouver everything is free. Free drugs, free housing, free medical care, free food.

Let`s start by warehousing the junkies. That`ll discourage them. Let`s turn Woodwards into what it should be - a parking lot and here`s my favourite - let`s make civic employees pay for parking at city hall. Yeah yeah I know they`ll go on strike over that one but we`ve got to start somewhere.

Good piece, Name. At least, it's about my read on this prima donna, media darling, who makes better fiction as Da Vinci than reality tv.

Anybody who supported 4-pillars was between a rock and a hard place in the last election. Faced with a choice between Larry, or Jennifer "creme-de-la-creme" Clarke, what choice was there? Clarke's election would have precipitated the resignation of Don MacPherson, and any coherent reform of drug policy in the city would have been set back by 10 years.

Sure, Larry was a bit of a washout, but the alternatives were a lot worse....

Deeby: I was thinking the same thing reading through these comments.
All I have to do is sit back and think to the days when that arrogant old coot George Puil was on the front page all the time, then I think, "Campbell ain't so bad."

I hope Larry Reads this peice of Dribble a sues your ass off.

Nothing like unbiased, Fact based reporting.

"Nothing like unbiased, Fact based reporting."

No doubt, I would hardly say the new star wars qulifies as cinema.

"Why not Ann Roberts who is just as well educated and does not look like she will rub you out if crossed."

I saw this and felt I could answer it in an obtuse way... Because Anne Roberts is a nutbar.

sirjohna wrote:

"'i'd like to see tim louis be the next mayor'.
you win the laugh of the month award for that one billy. thanks so much."

i can imagine what the 'a' stands for, sir!

i've met tim louis. he's a dedicated, progressive individual. tell me, what's so funny about him being mayor?? since you offer no explanatory commentary, i have to wonder if you're just making fun of someone confined to a chair.

on that note, why are so many people that think 'lefties' are mindless fools reading the tyee?????? this is not a neoliberal or neocon medium. why spend the time on here ridiculing people who would like to see changes that favour more than just the middle-class burbites and the wealthy (the majority of us people don't belong to those groups)? why participate in a forum filled with people who are explicitly against the status quo mentality that you folks (you know who you are) champion??

So long Larry...as a former supporter I'm not sad to see you go. You've split the only truely representative civic party up with your rude brutish behavior and misguided policies. You didn't seem to realize that some issues needed to be fought for and others left to rot. Yes to gambling...what a f&*kup, yes to a P3 on the RAV line...can you say cost over-runs, yes to higher transit fares... another attack on the poor.

"the evil that men do lives after them, the good is oft interred with their bones...so let it be with Larry"

"i've met tim louis. he's a dedicated, progressive individual. tell me, what's so funny about him being mayor??"

One thing Tim has at his advantage is experience. He's been doing the council thing for longer than the others. However, if I recall city staff don't like him because he never offers any positive comment to them, this can cause problems when it comes to getting things done. The specifics of this I don't know, it's been awhile since I've followed Vancouver council.

dualism; because it's a lot of fun, and someone has to educate you naive ideologues.

dual; i went to langara college with tim many many many years ago. he's a good guy, but you can't have a so-called 'major' city run by lefty ideologues. it would be a big stinking heap of junk in no time.

Sirjohna...are you suggesting that a city run by a bunch of righty ideologues would be any better. Prior to the last civic election that's exactly what we had and you saw how much the people liked that set up. If Cope had run 10 councellors it would have been a sweep. Personally I think that an evenly split council with a neutral Mayor would be the perfect solution to the mess at city hall.

Of that everyone should take note.

Though there is no real mystery to it.

Has anyone ever tried to engage in a rational and reasoned discussion with Brownshirts, on their blogsites?

So the Brownshirts invariably wind up chasing their own tails around until the poor wee puppies fall down with boredom. I mean, listen to the drivel of Sirjohna, who's really a Msjohna. She bores us. Can you imagine listening to this lady all day, everyday, and actually having to treat her ideas seriously, like they anything real or valid to them at all.

So it's no wonder the poor darlings, including this poor excuse for a Brownshirt man or woman, feel the need to come over here for a little intellectual clitoral stimulation.

Though most of them, with one or two exceptions, are so brain damaged they just can't stop drivelling or drooling all over the pages of Tyee either. In place of ideas, you get memorable lines like, "What a laugh. What a joke. Goofball. Guff. Leftwing Queers and Gears."

Still, overall, it's good these intellectual castratoes show up here. It gives us a chance to expose them and their cut and paste views of the world up against real and thoughtful ideas and responses. And the vast majority of others don't see them a hell of a lot different than we do, but as jokes and caricatures of themselves, little Hitlers, whom we allow to parade themselves around here, exposing their lack of intellectual genitalia, so that we can all see and understand the saucer of water depth that is these real fascists come out of the woodwork like termites.

I, for one, like them around. They make even me look good :-) and are our best arguments and examples against them. They bring their own rope to their hanging. They get up on the chair, do the rope around their own necks, then kick the chair out from under themselves, everytime. And as they twist in the wind and their eyes bug, they think its you they've really shown up.

Fade to black.

markat; the last civic election was a reaction to the provincial liberal landslide. it won't happen again. i like your last idea, but only if none of them, left or right, are idealogues or extremists.

Cute Star Wars movie analogy, but I am thinking that in terms of COPE we should think of another 1970s era movie "The Apple Dumpling Gang."

As for Emperor Larry hardly, he meraly got tired of the left wing ideo-illogical bufoonery of COPE and has decided not to have any more of his time talent and energy wasted with these losers.

The big loser in all this is of course the people of Vancouver and come November so too will the COPE clowns who caused one of the most straight forward and sensible Mayors that Vancouver has ever had, to quit.

“Like him or not, Larry's got his legacy. Olympics, Woodward’s, RAV, were all done under his watch.”

Perhaps the one thing most posters should be able to agree with is the finial judgment of Larry’s performance will be the judging the performance of his legacy projects.

Will our two week partly in 2010 provide a stable economic engine?

Will a single subsidized building in the Downtown Eastside-Gastown be a white knight to counter decreased cruise ship traffic, failing tourist attractions, increased drug use and the cities appalling lack of any will to acknowledge, much less even preserve Gastown Heritage (even on city owned sites)?

Will population growth in Vancouver continue so that Cambie can be walled with concrete box high-rises: the only thing to make the RAV line a viable sink of taxpayers money?

And I would vote Tim Louis for mayor if only for the reason when I had ‘my issue’ with city hall he was the only councilor who took the time to even send a smarmy two sentence acknowledgement!

Woodwards was not done under Campbell's watch. It was tackled by the previous council.

JRG, stable economic growth is based on economic confidence. whether the olympics make money or not, having people think they will is the best thing for our economy.

Welcome back Coyote, thanks for the insight into sirjohna. It's hard to believe that
Folks like sirjohna really exist . I really don't believe it and stand by my argument that
He is just a paid party hack here to disrupt debate. For his sake, I mean no one can
Be so indoctrinated, its not healthy. Although I have conducted experiments with him, I open the
Province or tune into CKNW and see if he is parroting their message. Anyway I was invited to
A party with some crème do la crème this weekend, it was quite amazing that after a few sips of wine how cold and callous these folks are. This one guy standing on the edge of his yacht tells me that the sweat shops etc around the world are good for business etc and that within the next say 200 yrs a natural adjustment will take place. Anyway the point is that the guy is a space cadet and telling him that he is wrong is not the answer. What we need to do with folks like sirjohna and this guy is just point out the benefits to them and possible loss to them, you know appeal to their selfish nature and they will come around. Basically their easy to manipulate because their values are very shallow.

I pointed out the new 800 million Toyota plant being built in Ont. The main reason Canada was chosen was the low , socialized health care cost compared to US health cost to the employer. Anyway easy crowd, we need to show these folks how stupid they are without actually saying it. I could bring
Sirjohna back from the dark side in a NY minute.

Hey dangrice.com

"Stuart, there is a difference between tackling homelessness and drug abuse, and having a city council passing motions regarding ballistic missiles, the war on iraq, air india inquiry, etc."

With an unresponsive media I admire those in power who use their platform to advance issues fundamental to Canadians, the word I'm looking for is courage. Sorry but we are world citizens even
If these issues make you uncomfortable. The South African government was brought down by brave citizens of the world who stood up and boycotted companies in South Africa.

Economic engine , bla, bla , bla.

We are rich city, we have 2 billion for Rav, 600 mil for a hwy expansion to Whistler, 4.8 mil to try and sell a hwy. There is waste everywhere. We have the money, but not the will.

Yeah BUt Stuart I agree with Dang on the council thing.

When you elect city council it is to make sure the street lights stay on. Them wasting time and money passing motions that will have absoloutely no effect on what they are passing them on is just mental masturbation.
Also, they are taking it upon themselves to voice an opinion their electorate may not agree with, as much as it sucks I'm sure there are plenty of Vancouverites in support of the Iraq war.
And cope essentially swiping the right to say what Vancouverites think of it isn't right. It's not their job to do so, and they should not pretend it is, especially when their motions do nothing to effect the situation.
If they want to speak out in the media about it, fine... but don't abuse your position as a council member.
It's two ways, if I don't want Harper telling me what is right and wrong through legislation I can't tell him what is right and wrong through it.

Take it from me. This is what is going to happen. Asia will become the 1st World and N. America the 3rd. It will happen largely by default.

An Asian whose tongue had been loosened by booze revealed, if not the timetable, an approximate sequence of events that will, he maintained, offer B.C. some relief.

Vancouver Island will be taken by stealth by a vote to secede from B.C. to become a colony of China. This will have been assured following a massive influx of Asians from from the rest of B.C. and the rest of Canada. Many non-Asian residents will support the seperation because of expanding marketing opportunities with Asia
and increasing trade harassment at the Canada/U.S. borders.

Once that seperation is completed a similar influx will occur in the remains of the province for the purpose of its acquisition by a vote to seperate. Compelling arguments will be made that more advantage to B.C. would accrue in seperation than would to Quebec _ which, at that time, will probably already have gained it sovereignty.

While I thought it had the makings of a pot-boiler, I have to admit that it was delivered with deadly seriousness.

Dangrice; "whether the Olympics make money or not, having people think they will is the best thing for our economy"

Is that your best defense for the Olympics? Sounds a lot the NeoCon defense of the Iraq war: “whether one supported the Iraq war or not (or thinks Bush committed the worst possible impeachable offence by lying to Congress to start it) we all need to shut up and support Bush now as we are at war.”

Injustice occurs because everyone else is waiting for someone else to stand up. While those who make a stand usually get ridiculed for doing so I admire them. I admire folks who use their position to advance socially progressive views . If you don't like it than don't vote for COPE next time, if you feel the MSM media is doing a good job and alternative views upset up then so what. DON'T vote for them next time. Many folks in powerful positions put forth their view or vision for Vancouver and have a right to do so, I feel allot of folks are uncomfortable with COPE because it maybe the first time that they have even had to address these Global issues, sorry but the MSM is not open to alternative voices . And like it or not Vancouver is one of Canada's major centers and what we do gets global attention, change occurs because one person decides to stop forth and be counted. I wonder how many folks in power in the US decided not to speak out about slavery , women's rights etc because its not their job to do so. We live in a society that rewards cowards and cutthroats.

Does anyone see the possibility that Larry Campbell may run federally, perhaps for the Liberals or the NDP in Vancouver Centre? After all, Hedy Fry is long overdue for retirement, one way or the other.

As for WalMart, I was surprised to read in The Straight that they are now the largest retailer in Canada. I guess I am not aware of them since I don't shop there, perferring Costco instead.

Whatever WalMart's "practices" may be, here or overseas, their architect Peter Busby did put forward an innovative green building design that could have been copied by others in the future. And it is, after all, the building, not the company, which is more or less permanent, the real fixed capital. If you don't believe me, just ask the many ex-employess of Eatons and Woodwards.

In one of his few really big mistakes, I thought Larry Campbell, like Derek Corrigan, was being a bit of an ideological luddite with his ritualistic rant against the Port Mann Bridge expansion and the widening of Hwy 1. I wonder if Burnaby voters, who stuck with the BC Liberals last month, might not be on teh verge of unseating Corrigan, the ex-Saab driver from his BC Transit days who now hates highways and single occupant vehicles, ... other than his own, of course!

Who will the new Mayor be? Almost certainly Peter Ladner, who will inherit most of Lorne Maynecourt's anti-hobo vote. That will mean another decade of Vancouver pretending that refusing to build highways and claiming that promoting biking and walking amount to a transportation plan will continue to keep immense upward pressure on property prices. Which is the one thing that nearly all Vancouver homeowners, both Eastside and Westside, are totally in favour of. And Gordon Price Inc. can get seriously rich as a consultant to the City on traffic interruption, ... er, ... calming measures!

One thing you shouldn't look for is any rational and well-founded transportation demand measures such as tolls on bridges. The Downtown Business Assn would be opposed to them on the grounds that this would discourage consumers from coming into the City to shop. And what is worse, if tolls were collected they would almost certainly be used to expand the road network, a complete 'no no' in the eyes of all the millionaire greens and smart growth morons who have been hollering NO FREEWAYS since the early days of the late Walter Hardwick.

Budd Campbell , your basically a dick. You sound the like a CKNW parrot. Derek Corrigan is a great guy who stands up and makes smart decisions. He put in the 99B line to UBC and helped with the very successful Upass, so F.. Y.. who cares what kind of car he drives etc, the MSM has vilified him for his uncompromising stand on tough issues. Your shot about the kind of car he drives is a CKNW sound bite, your heroes, Bill Good, Peter Warren, David Burnout. and Philip Till, all Liberal card holding lap dogs. If building mega projects like Rav (already 420 million over budget) the tax payers are going to paying for the next 30 yrs for this lemon. Or twinning the Port Mann and jamming a mega hwy threw the city is your stick than so what but don't crap on those with smarter visions. Go Google induced congestion and educate yourself. If you want a 16 lane moving parking lot like LA than good for you. Derek rocks and stands up , unlike the jelly fish Larry C

Globalization is on our doorsteps... city, town, rural areas... so why shouldn't it be discussed in our city and town councils... I applaud COPE for standing firm on their beliefs...perhaps in the end, their courage played some small part in Campbell River now coming to a similar wise decision.

And Stuart: Well said...especially in regard to political jelly fish.

As you well know, Stuart, there is no plan for "a 16 lane moving parking lot" anywhere in BC. As for your pretense to know what you are talking about, it's a joke and you know it.

"Go Google induced congestion and educate yourself." Do it yourself, Stuart. If you find some intellectually honest sources they will tell you that what transport planners refer to as induced demand will not, in aand of itself, fill all of the additional capacity on a highway, or on a transit line for that matter. Stop preaching slogans and start doing a little real homework.

As for Derek Corrigan's Saab, you obviously don't know what went on when he was head of BC Transit. They leased the vehicle for him, it wasn't his own car at all. Derek was motoring around in a luxury Saab at taxpayer's expense and contrary to the BC Gov't guidelines on vehicles. It was a major embarassment to the NDP Govt that appointed him and it received big news coverage.

I do find it a bit amusing that another prominent BC "environmentalist" drives a flashy Mercedes Benz on hiw way to all the anti-Port Mann Bridge rallies. I think hypocrisy is too harsh a term, but some might see it that way. I just think it's kind of funny, and for true-believers like yourself, it should be revealing. Unfortunately, for the truly devoted, the sight of the priest and his mistress is usually just a source of increased stress and anger, not enlightenment.

"Vancouver is one of Canada's major centers and what we do gets global attention"

Stu, do you really think Washington even has Vancouver on the Map, let alone a city council and what they pass?

Perhaps we should worry less about what KIND of car one drives and concentrate more on how OFTEN one takes their cage out for a spin.

Pissing and moaning that X's car is too flashy for their station in life seems so last-century.

Maybe it's just a touch of the green monster rearing its head?

Ladner the biking mayor just might make y'all's head explode eh Budd?

Stuart, the thing I and I'm sure many others believe in is jurisdictional prudence. I don't mind if the city take's a strong line, no matter how radical on matters which have an impact on their constituents, and which fall under their jurisdiction. I may not like which side they fall under, but I know they are doing their job.

However, Global issues and war fall under the duties of the Federal government, and if a councillor wants to raise it, they should try and get themselves elected for federal government. They can speak out as a private citizen, attend rallies, and make a case, but they should not be doing this in the role of city councillor. We elected them to deal with city issues, and why should they spend any time during a council meeting speaking on something that has nothing to do with the city. You can flash around the idea that globalization is everywhere, but I elect a federal politician to represent me on certain issues, a provincial politician on others, and a city councillor on others.

Why should a councillor use their position to promote personal causes, no matter how valid it is? It is not about a progressive or neocon agenda. Do you think Ralph Kline and the Alberta legislature are justified to be passing motions encouraging a government to go to war?

And JRG, you can mix up your causes all you want, but the Olympics have nothing to do with Iraq. They are an economic generator, they do encourage growth, and they do give us a reason to build things, which creates tons of jobs. Consumer confidence is why the US economy did better when Clinton was President telling everyone the economy was great as opposed to the sloop that happened when George Bush tells people to buy ducktape and plastic sheeting.

Consumer confidence is something real, BC economy did bad in the late 90s, because the media was telling people it was doing badly, and it wasn't until Campbell said things were back on track did businesses start spending. The economy is an organic entity that needs an economic engine, or at least needs to think it has one. I have no desire to defend the olympics, cause I'll be counting down until they happen, and welcoming the world to my city.

I have no problem with Council tackling global issues, just so long as things on the homefront don't suffer because of it.

Think globally, act locally right? There's no reason our councillors HAVE to choose lobbying as their path of action. They're leading by example and I'm a total believer in that old saying: lead, follow, or get out of the way.

Perhaps if everyone applied similar scrutiny to their own behaviour we wouldn't have to ask our government to act as a moral compass.

Okay stump, but suppose the NPA was on council passing motions in support of wars and what not?

The issue is not in fact the brand of car one drives, but the inherent insincerity of some of these people, which is revealed by their expensive choice of car, and their desire to make someone else pay for it. For them, it's socialism and environmentalism for the poor, and conspicuous consumption for themselves.

Particularly in the case of the well-known environmental crusader, it's all going according to plan, just as long as his NGO's direct mail monster keeps on raking in the cold, hard cash from all the dutiful little suckers and true believers. It's sort of like the televangelists' existence in a way.

You know Stump, you don't surprise me with your enthusiastic support of Peter Ladner for Mayor. It's more or less what I expect from the fitness fascists who happily ride their bikes on sidewalks, and race through crosswalks full of pedestrians.

About a week ago I had the temerity to tell some bicyclist, who was right turning at high speed through a cross walk I and a dozen others were in, "Well Hello There!". He got really mad and started swearing, and was looking behind as he sped down the street to do so. Good thing there weren't any more distractions!

Last year I was nearly run flat on a dark morning by one of your heroic bike commuters, appropriately dressed entirely in black combat fatigues, at the corner of Water and Cordova. I checked the stop lights the next day, and by the time my pedestrian WALK sign would have come on, he would have had a solid RED for more than five seconds. He just didn't give a damn about anyone but himself and his big ride to work. I kind of tossed my attache case in his direction and he caught a piece of it, but didn't bother stopping. His behaviour was no different that the woman in the large pickup who had cut in front of me in a crosswalk a year or so earlier. I gave her a piece of the attache case too, and took out her entire left rear tail light assembly. I am really happy about that one, and am hoping to even the score with the next dangerous bicycling lunatic real soon. Here's hoping it may well be you, Stump!

You may fool a lot of well-meaning people with your psuedo environmentalism speech, but I am not one of them. Understand? When Ladner becomes Mayor and starts privatizing and reducing people's incomes, you'll be OKay with him as long as he bikes to City Hall. It's this kind of perverse priorities that makes BC politics such a complete joke.

Further, imagine a world where the mayors and councils of all jurisdictions petitioned that any leader initiating a nuclear attack or illegal war be publicly hung, drawn and quartered and that the body/ies be set in a block of ice to be displayed at all major capitals.

"took out her entire left rear tail light assembly."

What the hell is your case made of?

I remember an interesting article last election in which Terminal city noted as they interview Anne Roberts - a huge transit supporter (one of the tax them out of their cars folk)- she went down to plug the meter halfway through the interview.
As TC said, "She can talk the talk, but can't ride the bus."

That being said, I'm a big transit supporter... not to the extent of taxing people, but giving them incentives.

"hoping to even the score with the next dangerous bicycling lunatic real soon. Here's hoping it may well be you, Stump!"

Oh no, threatened by an Internet tough guy! Name the time and place and I'm there Mr. Attache. Not to come to blows with you, but to laugh at you.

Let me get this right, appropriate technology and appropriate use is OK when you need to drive, but the rest of us HAVE to be dogmatic and inflexible?

" His behaviour was no different that the woman in the large pickup who had cut in front of me in a crosswalk a year or so earlier."

Perhaps it's the people and not the mode of transport that's the problem? Assholes come in all stripes Budd and just like you they drive/ride all kinds of modes of transport.

I use transit too, jamez. But for me it really only works as a weekday travel to work mode. Evenings and weekends, for shopping, visits, events, it's the car.

The bike rides are strictly recreational, evenings and weekends, though I might stop and get something on the way on some ocassions.

If people live five or ten kilometres from work, and there's a shower for them, and their route is safe (either bike lanes or low traffic volumes), I can understand biking to work too.

However, if there is going to be a serious push to get many more people biking longer distances, there will have to be some major investments in dedicated bike routes, and that will cost serious dollars. Certainly on the new bridges, Pitt River, Golden Ears, making adequate provisions for cyclists is expensive, and the solutions that some of the engineers thought would accommodate bikes don't in fact satisfy the demands of serious bike commuters because they involve slowing down or even dismounting.

Serious bike commuters who really do go major distances are no doubt among the fittest 1% or less of the adult population, and that has to be kept in mind when assessing what percentage of cars could conceivably be removed from the road system if there were improved provisions for bikes.

Anne Roberts? Probably history in the making now that Larry has left the building.

"The issue is not in fact the brand of car one drives, but the inherent insincerity of some of these people, which is revealed by their expensive choice of car, and their desire to make someone else pay for it."

Then how come every time you bring it up you make sure to mention it's a Mercedes?

"However, if there is going to be a serious push to get many more people biking longer distances, there will have to be some major investments in dedicated bike routes, and that will cost serious dollars."

All we need is bike lanes. All they take is a can of paint in most places. I don't think this solution comes even close in terms of expense to more highways and transit and more obese inactive drains on the med. system.

Tell me this, Stump. What, if anything, does the following quote mean?

"Let me get this right, appropriate technology and appropriate use is OK when you need to drive, but the rest of us HAVE to be dogmatic and inflexible?"

I've read it three times, and I am stumped.

"The bike rides are strictly recreational, evenings and weekends, though I might stop and get something on the way on some ocassions.

If people live five or ten kilometres from work, and there's a shower for them, and their route is safe (either bike lanes or low traffic volumes), I can understand biking to work too."

I think your first statement invalidates the second. Respectfully, you don't seem to have a good grasp of bike commuting and its requirements at all. For instance, I don't think I could even break a sweat over 5km unless I sprinted the entire way.

"Federal government, and if a councilor wants to raise it, they should try and get themselves elected for federal government. They can speak out as a private citizen, attend rallies, and make a case, but they should not be doing this in the role of city councilor. "

Sorry dangrice.com, but you cannot control everything. Sorry but the MSM controls most info and is doing such a good job , but once folks start standing up more have courage to do so. All the current laws have been crafted by a few brave people who were willing to stand up and break the rules. Breaking the rules is your civic duty when the rules are unjust. If you don't like it then vote against COPE or run against them, tell the public that global issues of war and peace have no business in the public domain and we should just shut up and get to forums that are less effective like say a public rally. The peace movement has many fronts, fronts that you cannot control . If the council supported war then they do it at their own risk, see what happens to a blatant neo con city council. Citizens have a right to use their position to advance a cause, it happens all the time. And come on , what percentage of the population actually has the means to get elected as a federal MP . are you saying that council has no right to express concerns that affect the county and city unless their elected federal MP .

"The issue is not in fact the brand of car one drives, but the inherent insincerity of some of these people, which is revealed by their expensive choice of car, and their desire to make someone else pay for it. "

Oh Budd Campbell, we are not all perfect flawless citizens like you. Many folks have flaws but are otherwise good citizens, I am sure if you met Derek Corrigan you would find him one of the few hard working civic servants with new fresh ideas. he is well liked by his supporters and will take the mayor seat by a slam dunk for however long he wants to run. And are you saying that progressive folks should live in poverty and have crappy cars and be poor. Sorry but if you did some research like say CKNW should have you would find that most government employees have company cars, should Derek have said , oh no please give me a Tempo instead. Would you have taken a nice car Budd, would the car you drive change who you are . You know the only reason you care about this is because of the right wing whore media, kind of like everyone getting upset over Glenn Clarks porch Reno. Just plain smear campaign.
How about Larry C, is he okay in his city smart car or is he just a dork.

And induced congestion is a study that was done is 6 major US cities including LA , Atlanta etc. It shows that once you widen hwy systems , less folks carpool, less folks choose transit, and more people decide to live in the outlying suburbs. So within a years time you have the same traffic issues on a larger scale. The 16 land hwy I was refereeing to is in LA, they kept widening the hwy and now they have the 16 lane rolling parking lot. Not to mention the cost of doing this in real dollars, air pollution etc. He have rail lines that we used in expo that run right threw the valley, we could run trains to the Sapperton skytrain etc. We could have express bus lanes. Anyway many alternatives exist for creative people.
This study is a proven study if your wiling to check it out.

"Stu, do you really think Washington even has Vancouver on the Map, let alone a city council and what they pass?"

Dear Jamez, the answer is yes and very much so.

They have a DEA(drug enforcement office) here, a US embassy here. We build many high teck devices for their weapons systems here. In fact the bomb that was dropped on Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan was built in Richmond. CNC Lavalin that builds cluster bombs is also building our RAV line. Your one of those guys who think we are so small but in fact what Vancouver and Canada in general does always is being watched by the US. We are their #1 energy supplier and #1 trading partner. So yes is my answer.

"I've read it three times, and I am stumped."

Keep trying big fella. It'll come to you eventually.

Stump posted 1 Minute Ago:

"I've read it three times, and I am stumped."

Keep trying big fella. It'll come to you eventually.

No it won't because there is nothing there as far as I can see. Help me if you can. Translate what you are saying.

As for you other statements, I tried to describe for you the impact on bridge and highway design of proper bike lanes, it adds millions to the cost and millions more if the lanes are satisfactory to bike commuters. A can of paint may do on Ontario St, and if that's what you think is what's at issue, then there is no issue. It's longer distance bike travellers who will need serious improvements. Like most of the insular Vancouver City crowd, you simply have no idea what on earth you are talking about, it's all just empty slogans.

I normally ride about 20km on summer evenings after work, about an hour and a half or so, depending on how many times I stop for water or other necessities. Somtimes I do 40 km, taking more like two and a half hours. I have never tried biking to work, but the logistics would involve serious spending on more packs, special clothes, etc.

I don't know what your real game is, but I do know it has nothing to do with the environment, either natural or urban. I assume it's just the usual Vancouver desire to increase property prices in the City by making movement difficult and time consuming.

"appropriate technology and appropriate use is OK when you need to drive, but the rest of us HAVE to be dogmatic and inflexible?"

If you choose to get around by differing means (including cars) depending on the time and distance to be travelled it's OK.

If a noted environmentalist (I notice you don't attach a name) drives their Mercedes to an event somehow it's hypocrisy? Maybe, just like you, they don't have the time or facilities at the destination to make biking a comfortable option? Sauce for the goose Budd.... When you get everywhere by bike then you might have a leg to stand on when you criticize others for their car use. I don't believe that one must always choose one type of transport. Neither do you. Why do you feel it's relevant that an environmentalist might use a car on occcasion, or further that the type or cost of the car is any of your or my business?

"I have never tried biking to work"

Which is why you come across as uninformed on the subject.

Stuart, would it be fair to say that you are an unabashed apologist for Derek Corrigan?

The whole point of the issue is that, as head of BC Transit in the mid 1990s, he leased an expensive Saab that was in claer breach of the BC Government guidelines on what kinds of cars could be leased. The guidelines expected executive types to make do with an mid-level Toyota, or something of that nature. That wasn't good enough for the Great Derek Corrigan, who figured he was giving up income as a big shot lawyer to play head of transit, and he needed the flashier car as compensation for his lost income. Look up the press or Hansard from the time, 1996 and 1997. You will see it was a big downer for the NDP Govt and Joy MacPhail had to be pretty tough and pretty rough to deal with all the fallout.

I did hear Corrigan giving a speech once on the Liberal Community Charter act. He kept on emphasizing how his progressive council was taking on the big "corporate developers" by raising ever higher the Development Cost Charges on new apartment buildings. Naturally, there wasn't a word on how much more, if anything, Burnaby was spending on building inspections to prevent another rash of leaky or otherwise deficient construction. And what is more, there was not a hint of recognition on his part that in reality these DCC's would be paid by the eventual apartment dwellers.

Every municipality in BC uses DCCs, whether on apartments, or townhouses, or single family dwellings. It's a way of making newcomers pay all the extra costs of further development, while those who came earlier see their property prices go up, ... but not their taxes. Neat, eh?

But for Corrigan to pretend that this amounts to a soak the rich plan, by invoking the lefty terminology about "corporate developers" was just too much for me. If he had played it once as a throw away line for the nuts and kooks and true believers, well, I wouldn't have cared. But he kept repeating it, taking us all for complete fools, as if we don't know that it's really just the consumer, in some cases the young family that are first time buyers, who will in fact be paying these DCCs.

And all so that Corrigan's middle aged and older Burnaby NDP crowd can count up the hundreds of thousands in untaxed capital gains on their homes in peace and quiet. Nice game, eh? Are you one of the financial beneficiaries of this game? Is that why you like Corrigan so much?

Stump, I would just like you to read the major part of your last posting:

"If a noted environmentalist (I notice you don't attach a name) drives their Mercedes to an event somehow it's hypocrisy? Maybe, just like you, they don't have the time or facilities at the destination to make biking a comfortable option? Sauce for the goose Budd.... When you get everywhere by bike then you might have a leg to stand on when you criticize others for their car use. I don't believe that one must always choose one type of transport. Neither do you. Why do you feel it's relevant that an environmentalist might use a car on occcasion, or further that the type or cost of the car is any of your or my business?"

You sound like a real apologist for these leaders of yours, kind of like a 1930s radical who supports one of the totalitarian leaders, explaining their various contradictions as necessities, understandable, etc. It's kind of funny, but it's also a bit scary.

No, I sound like a realist. As for whether or not your un-named enviro leader is someone to whom I would doff my hat... how would I know, you won't name names. Maybe you're just making it up cuz it fits in with your theory?

Stump posted 1 Minute Ago:

"No, I sound like a realist. As for whether or not your un-named enviro leader is someone to whom I would doff my hat... how would I know, you won't name names. Maybe you're just making it up cuz it fits in with your theory?"

You sound like a realist? Really? What percentage of the adult population do you think is capable of bicycling to work and to most of their social functions? Personally, I would think it's less than 10%, and in the case of longer distances, 15 or 20 km or more, it would be less still, say 1% or fewer.

I can assure you the unnamed enviromental leader is for real. I'll give you a hint. He used to be a mere professional politician, until his pugilistic tendencies necessitated a career redeployment. Now, as an exalted environmentalist, he no longer has to endure the harsh winters of Ottawa, is driving around Vancouver in a very nice Mercedes Benz. A year or so ago, I was visiting Granville Island, and he parked near us and emerged from his up market sedan. I had to struggle mighty hard to keep from chuckling out loud.

But, as I said before, for the true believers, the real hard core nuts and kooks, the sight of the priest with his mistress has no educational value whatsoever, they just take in stride and keep on mumbling meaningless slogans.

"You sound like a realist? Really? What percentage of the adult population do you think is capable of bicycling to work and to most of their social functions?"

Capable or willing? There's far more that are capable than are willing. Guys like you for instance.

"A year or so ago, I was visiting Granville Island, and he parked near us and emerged from his up market sedan. I had to struggle mighty hard to keep from chuckling out loud."

Again, why should I care?

Spoke Stump: "Capable or willing? There's far more that are capable than are willing. Guys like you for instance."

It would not be practical for me to bike to work. The distances are too great. Others I work with, who live between two and about seven or eight kms from work bike to the office, but I am well over that. Possibly if I was younger, but at 55 with osteo arthritis in the left knee, it's not a practical daily routing. For recreation, it's fine, if the evening ride is spoiled, so what? But I cannot afford to be four hours late for work because my knee decided to swell up today. It's considerations such as these, and your dismissive attitude towards them, that leads me to use the term "fitness fascists". That's being polite, I might add. If you want the adult unexpurgated version, well, ... meet you in a cross walk with the attache case.

"Again, why should I care?" You should care about being used. It's kind of degrading.

"You should care about being used. It's kind of degrading."

You should know.

"meet you in a cross walk with the attache case."

Don't write a cheque you can't cover Idle Threat Man.

"It would not be practical for me to bike to work."

Not even once a week? You must really be decrepit. LOL

Tell me Stump, do you have a British accent to go along with your superior attitude?

As for fitness fascists, you're pretty much confirming my diagnosis with you Arnold Schwarzenneger turned bicyclist act.

Tell me Budd, do you want cheese with that whine?

Oh come on, the poor developers in Burnaby had to pay more, whatever man. Everyone has to work in this environment including Derek and others(maybe Derek could make every Developer more moral, LOL) . Mayor Larry or Gordo as mayor of Vancouver did so much more for the poor, You just sound like a bitter guy with some kind of hard on for Derek.

"The whole point of the issue is that, as head of BC Transit in the mid 1990s, he leased an expensive Saab that was in claer breach of the BC Government guidelines on what kinds of cars could be leased"

Wow big story , your probably the only one who cares what kind of car someone leased in the 90's maybe you and CKNW can move on , you know get over this injustice.
Do you know what kind of shit is going on right now, how corrupt this government is and your hung up on a leased car
in the 90's, pure smear. The reason once again that this is still lingering is the fact that Derek is not a rubber chicken like
Larry and is not afraid to speak his mind.

Did Derek also get a porch reno. LOL

How about in the 70's any dirt, how about DWI's

I think it is something called "civil, democratic political discourse". Those who hide bad reasoning behind name-calling are the ones who lower the tone of debate on this web site. If you would rather sit around with others who already agree with you, go talk somewhere in private. The lop-sided state of politics in BC stems from people with different views being unwilling to listen to each other, IMHO.

I think COPE will be lost without Campbell, although much will depend upon who the NPA can trot out. The so-called COPE classics don't appeal to most people who actually turn out to vote. The ~30%-ish voter turnout for municipal elections relegates the responsibility for choosing leaders to the West Side. This produces lop-sided outcomes in which the elected officials don't reflect the views of the whole pouplation, although they may reflect the interests of those who actually voted. Whose fault is that?

B]Stuart[/B], you're even more devoted, not to mention more obtuse, than I thought.

"Oh come on, the poor developers in Burnaby had to pay more, whatever man."

Just like your mentor Derek Corrigan, you are deliberately obfuscating the issue. And just like him you are stupidly thinking that people are naive enough to fall for this threadbare scam.

The "poor developer" (excuse me, ... is it "poor developer" or "corporate developer"? may indeed pay more up front, but they will recover all of that from home purchasers. Granted, some of those purchasers are investors, but many are consumers with no other property interests.

I have to wonder if guys like you and Corrigan really think you're fooling anyone in today's world with this fake political symbolism of your's.

The 1990s is too long ago, is it? Well I don't see it that way. When Corrigan had a choice to make, lease a modest vehicle that was within guidelines, or aim higher for something more expensive, more gratifying to his private ego, he chose the latter. It was hardly consistent with the image he was supposed to promoting as head of BC Transit. If the pay as head of that Board was insufficient compensation for his lost earning hours in his law practice, there would have been better ways of handling the matter than making a bloody big fool of himself and the NDP Govt that appointed him.

Claiming that Corrigan personally designed the 99 B-Line to UBC is a bit rich, but you seem to be into resorting to any kind of pretense necessary in order to come to your pet conclusion that "Derek rocks". Derek definitely does not rock. In fact, he's kind of boring. I believe the provincial results indicate that he is vulnerable and vulnerable on the highways issue.

And if Fire Captain Boni Prokopetz is the Liberal candidate, with full backing from the CBC and CanWest, ... , well, ... look for poor Derek to be more or less completely flattened.

"Dear Jamez, the answer is yes and very much so.

They have a DEA(drug enforcement office) here, a US embassy here. We build many high teck devices for their weapons systems here. In fact the bomb that was dropped on Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan was built in Richmond. CNC Lavalin that builds cluster bombs is also building our RAV line. Your one of those guys who think we are so small but in fact what Vancouver and Canada in general does always is being watched by the US. We are their #1 energy supplier and #1 trading partner. So yes is my answer."

Wasn't aware about the bomb.. interesting

" It's considerations such as these, and your dismissive attitude towards them, that leads me to use the term "fitness fascists"."

What a crock Budd. We've had this argument before and you know full well that I'm promoting more cycling wherever possible, not some self-propelled police state. We have different ideas about what constitutes "possible" (and you are dismissive of the evidence and facts I use to support my idea of such a concept) but just for once acknowledge that I'm not suggesting that which is simply more convenient and easy for you to refute. It's just weak dude, like the legs of all those car-bound commuters.

Stump, take a look at your latest post:

"...you know full well that I'm promoting more cycling wherever possible, not some self-propelled police state. ...It's just weak dude, like the legs of all those car-bound commuters."

You just can't get a grip on your rhetoric. You try to deny something, then end up confirming it.

You should consider the possibility that there are some people driving cars to work who spend many hours in fitness activities and are not at all weak. But bike commuting doesn't work for them given distance, family obigations, the type of work they do, etc.

Tell me this. How far do you bike to work each day? That's one fact you have never revealed.

Re: cycling for transportation

I love riding my bike and, up until a couple of years ago, rode it everywhere as primary transportation -- I didn't own a car until I was thirty years old. But then I injured my knee, so my days of commuting to work are over. My responsibilities at work also increased, so I needed a vehicle to drive to sites across the Lower Mainland & Vancouver Island.

I can still enjoy cycling for recreation, but my knee prevents me from enjoying 20k commutes twice a day ...

I'm too young to be a baby boomer, but demographically we've got a large aging population who are probably in the same boat. We should continue investing in our bicycle infrastructure, but also recognize that it won't be for everybody for demographic reasons.

"How far do you bike to work each day?"

Longest commute in my work career: Burrard and Broadway to Metrotown.

Kits to Gastown

East Van to Downtown

Currently, East Van to Fairview Slopes. Short because I made a conscious decision to live near my work.

If I lived farther away I'd bike to transit and take that. Or, maybe I'd drive a couple days of week and ride the rest. Maybe I'd buy a Hummer and keep my eye peeled for attache case wielding psychos in the crosswalks.

Nobody holds a gun to someone's head and makes them move to the burbs.

"It's just weak dude, like the legs of all those car-bound commuters."

It's called a light-hearted jab. Laugh along with me and lighten up my friend.

"But bike commuting doesn't work for them given distance, family obigations, the type of work they do, etc."

One last time, because maybe your eyes are going along with your knees ;-) Yes, there are some people that can't bike commute (or take the bus, or walk, or para-glide or whatever) for a variety of reasons. I don't think that number equals the number of single occupant vehicles flooding the roads every morning and evening, most of which appear to be heading in roughly the same direction.

Do you understand?

"And if Fire Captain Boni Prokopetz is the Liberal candidate, with full backing from the CBC and CanWest, ... , well, ... look for poor Derek to be more or less completely flattened."

Hey BC Budd, your media consumption says allot about your character. The last election showed that even with local media whores like Chorus radio CanWest and even CBC with Rich Fluff, the BC Fiberals lost the popular vote. Do you have a little shrine with Peter Warren at your home, LOL.

Anyway, usually outspoken folks that have courage and stand up get vilified and smeared by the media. Gee Derek had a nice car in the 90's wow, big story . Anyway your anger is almost like an endorsement. Cheers

If you want a few real stories you may not have heard by your heroes at CanWest.
1) Doug Walls was hired to Children and families while he was investigated for fraud by CIBC.Also had major debts forgiven by the gov.
2) Gordon Hogg arranged over a million in fines to be waived for fish farmers.
3) Gordo (convicted felon)
4) Raid at the ledge. Organized crime money laundering and influence peddling dealing with BC Rail, part of the deal
the spur line was already stopped by the RCMP.
5) Ad budgets over by 7 mil plus. Your money
6) Funneling of money from cities to Liberal party coffers.
I wonder if CKNW paid attention to this vs. a leased car or porch Reno. Wake up Budd and realize that your being played for a fool.

' the BC Fiberals lost the popular vote.' you're showing your ignorance again stuart. p.s. corrigan is an ndp lapdog.

Well Stump, it seems your longest ever commute was Broadway and Burrard to Metrotown. That is about 15 to 20 km, correct? Well, that is at the outside edge of what I would consider to be a feasible bike commute, one that would normally take at least an hour given traffic, stop lights, etc. Good for you, you were really pushing it in my opinion.

Insisting that people who live 25 or more kms from work should be bike commuting too is a bit over the top. It's not practical unless someone can make the commute their whole fitness program, a mixed recreation/work package. Even then, it may not always be feasible.

I think Moderate Man has stated the case very well. Even for someone who is quite fit, a leg injury can reduce the efficiency of bike commuting severely, even when recreational biking is still a major pleasure on evenings and weekends.

Even employers who are sympathetic to alternative transport modes, who have put out the money to install showers, are going to balk if someone is often late for appointments because their commute didn't go well. It's no different that if one were taking the bus and complaining that the bus kept letting you down, ... for the fourth time this week and it's only Thursday!

I am aware that there are a very few people who do bike terribly long distances to work, from say Surrey or Pitt Meadows, all the way to Vancouver. For the new Port Mann and Pitt River Bridges to accommodate their needs, the costs of those bridges will have to be raised even further in order to put on extra ramps.

Where do you think the biking community is going to find that political support for spending generously on bridges? If you're going to find it anywhere, you're going to find it among motorists who want the bridge to flow freely and have an interest in overturning BC and Vancouver's tradional policy of under-engineering all our transportation infrastructure, whether its roads, bridges, or rail transit.

Instead of trying to find allies, all you do is piss on people who you figure aren't as environmentally senstive as you! You know, it's really kind of funny, all these self-proclaimed activists types living in "the concrete jungle", and then proclaiming they're an "environmenatalist" because they're riding their $3,000 aluminum bikes on the asphalt. Many of them simply won't admit that they have bought homes in the city because they were privileged enough to inherit a major amount of cash from their parents, there being no way they could afford their homes or apartments on their own wages.

You're right about one thing, Stump. No one held a gun to people's heads and said move to the suburbs or else. But someone sure offered them some highway robbery prices as the alternative to not moving there. And Vancouver City residents ought to realize that "their" city couldn't function by day were it not for the suburban work force willing to commute to it's office and plants, thereby keeping the city's industrial and commercial tax base going. The suburbanites and their municipalities derive none of the property taxes paid by the industries that are kept alive by suburban workers.

Good morning, Stuart. It's good to see that the sycophant vote actually gets out of bed before noon.

I agree with you that the media can be petty and misleading. But they sometimes hit paydirt, and they certainly hit a major NDP vulnerability when they jumped on Derek Corrigan's leased Saab caper.

I think you had better be prepared for those same media whores to be doing a very big number on the entire NDP civic party in Burnaby. The provincial results, where the NDP failed to regain Burnaby North and Burnaby Willingdon, clearly shows that the once all-powerful Burnaby NDP organization has become sclerotic and out of touch. Corrigan sympbolizes all of that.

As for Prokopetz, I have no particular insider info one way or the other as to whether or not she will be a candidate for anything. But judging by the way the Liberal CBC handled her, I have the feeling she is being groomed for something, and it's not the Fireman's Charity Ball.

"the outside edge of what I would consider to be a feasible bike commute, one that would normally take at least an hour given traffic, stop lights, etc."

36 to 45 mins on average, depending on whether I rode hard or took it easy.

If being late for work is your fear, biking is a great alternative as traffic jams, accidents, etc are not a factor.

"Insisting that people who live 25 or more kms from work should be bike commuting too is a bit over the top."

Nobody is insisting that. Pay attention!

"and then proclaiming they're an "environmenatalist" because they're riding their $3,000 aluminum bikes on the asphalt."

You've got bike envy as well as car envy?

Budd, I don't think you'll be happy until anyone who aspires to sustainability is clad in sack-cloth and regularly self-flagellates in a mud hut in the woods as punishment for having the temerity to be alive.

Successful change comes in small steps.

Stump, you say it took you only "36 to 45 mins on average, depending on whether I rode hard or took it easy" to go from Broadway and Burrard to Metrotown. Well, what was your route?

Dear sirjohna

Liberal took 46% of the vote even with all the media saturation on side.
The NDP took 42%
The Green took 8% so lets do the math.
Liberals 46% people who voted against them = 50%
This means that more folks voted against them. They hung on by their finger tips mainly because the
media played it like a 3 party horse race while most know the Greens didn't have a hope.
Even Gordo lost the popular vote in his riding. Oh well , people will know better next time.

And Budd, the Liberals hung on to Burnaby ridings by their finger tips. a few hundred votes in 3 ridings
Wait until the civic election with no greens to split the vote. I'm really not worried.

"Well, what was your route?"

Kingsway was fastest, the path under Skytrain the most enjoyable.

stuart; please! liberals 46%, ndp 42%, green 8% means the liberals won the pop vote by any standard of measurement in a 3 party system. give me a break man.

Well, Stump, there are a lot of traffic lights on Kingsway. Assuming your total distance was 15 km, you were averaging nearly 30 km per hour on your faster trips. And given all the stops you must have been doing over 40 km when actually in motion, maybe even 50 km. That's pretty fast cycling, isn't it?

What kind of bike do have?

The margins of victory were narrow in Burnaby, Stuart, that's true. But in any half normal year, including a year where the NDP finishes in Oposition, the Burnaby seats would be among the most likely NDP ridings in the province, with North Burnaby in particular being solid NDP country since the 1930s.

So for the Liberals to hang on there while the NDP wins over 30 seats province wide means that the NDP vote their is depreciating relative to the party's province wide standing.

Derek Corrigan and the civic NDP team are indeed in trouble. They have taken entirely the wrong side on the highways issue, leaving their constituents to wonder what has gotten into them. In addition, the Prokopetz affair is calculated to drive deep wedges between the NDP's feminist and labour camps. And there is no doubt she is being prepared and groomed for something big and that the CBC Liberals are in on that action right from the get go.

Finally there was the overall downer of seeing the Burnaby NDP's No. 1 Star Candidate, Svend Robinson Himself, self-destruct in a stupid jewellry heist.

If you and Derek aren't worried, ... well, ... that's not exactly a positive indicator under the circumstances.

Regular mountain bike, without skinny tires I might add. Wow, I must be god-like.

I don't care if you believe me or not Budd. I know I'm not lying. BTW, your math sux

Regular mountain bike, without skinny tires I might add. Wow, I must be god-like.

I don't care if you believe me or not Budd. I know I'm not lying. BTW, your math sux and if you spend anytime at all commuting by bike you learn how to hit mostly green lights.

Time will tell, as far as Svend , his advisor Bill Sksey took the riding hands down. Anyway the federal BC NDP vote was up 150 % last election, time will tell. Cheers.

Excuse me Stuart, but you surely must do a bit of homework.

If you look at the Elections Canada site you will find that Bill Siksay took that riding by the narrowest of margins, ... OKay, not as narrow as Liberal race-baiter Richard T. Lee in the provincial election, but still very narrow compared to past federal votes in the area.

http://www.elections.ca/scripts/OVR2004/default.html

Bill Siksay got 15,682 votes, or 34.6%, while Liberal Star Candidate Bill Cunningham was close behind with 14,748 votes, or 32.5%. That's hardly a safe seat. Anyone who is "winning" with under 40% of the total is vulnerable, and under 35%, ... well, ... you can't really call that winning, it's more like the last one standing after the voters had a go at repudiating everyone.

As I am sure you know, Bill Cunningham no longer toils in some grubby bank office. He has a job in the Federal Regional Minister's office, ... right here in Vancouver - no red-eye commutes to Ottawa for him ... with a fancy "Director" title that is accompanied by a salary in the $100,000 and up range. And as I am sure you also know, there's been no negative media feedback on this patronage appointment, certainly none from the Liberal CBC, whose offices are right across the street from Cunningham's new perch.

I hate like Hell to admit it Stump, but I probably overestimated your top speeds.

Taking another run at it, I am assuming that your 36 minute trip involved 15 kms total distance and you had to give up 5 minutes of that to full stops at intersections. (I know you're the type who would ignore safety rules and speed in and out among the pedestrians in the cross walk to beat the damn lite, but nevermind that for now.) So, 15 kms in 31 minutes means 29 km/hr.

But you also had to accelerate to a top speed. There's a proper calculus method of doing these sorts of computations, but I have long forgotten how, and don't have enough information. Assuming you loose another 5 minutes in acceleration and braking, and that during those phases you're travelling a rough average of 15 km/hr, then a very rough weighted average calculation would look like this:

((5min*15k/h) + (26min*Xk/h))/31min = 29k/h

Solving for X yields a figure of 31.7k/h.

So maybe you're not going as fast at the top end of your speed curve as I thought.

To quote Chevy Chase playing G. Ford: "It was my understanding there would be no math."

I don't scare the peds in the crosswalk btw, I have more brains than that. Maybe you shouldn't sully your perfectly gracious reply w/ a jab yeah? 30 kph sounds about right.

I respect your honesty on the matter.

Well Stump, a reply without a barb would be inconsistent with the approved etiquette of the on-line world.

Here's a link I know you will enjoy:

http://www.dot.ca.gov/dist07/index.php

According to them, there are 615 miles of freeways in the Los Angeles and Ventura Counties.

This is better than The Motorcycle Diaries...it has drama, tension, a little attache case violence, intrigue, and even...mathematics. A great read...best line goes to Stump and his Chevy Chase - Gerald Ford quote. But Budd, you're no mathematical slouch either, solving for x has always made me nervous...anyone who can calculate the top end of a speed curve...well, I'm envious....

One day, I predict, you two are going to run into each other (in a nice way)... sans attache case and become great friends. Believe me... I've calculated the odds on this, now I'm just working on solving for x....

ha. hate to put a blimp in Budd and Stumps math, but google maps tells me its 11.8 kms!

So thus an average speed of 18.3 kms/hr!

Which Google maps are those, dangrice?

maps.google.com, has a route finder, where you can enter in two addresses, and it will map out the distance and the best route. it also has a cool satellite view which i like to call the pool finder, a great way during the summer to find out which neighbours you should buddy up to.

News Flash: Larry has now become Senator, one more step to Emperor!