I did find this pretty cool interview with Carole James at Shared Vision, by Tyee contributor Monte Paulson: http://www.shared-vision.com/2005/sv1803/carolejames1803.html

Oh, here is a story about the nomination. It is kind of funny and gossipy, just what I wanted.

http://www.martlet.ca/archives/031127/news3.html

yammer; during the leadership convention there was much talk of change, specifically of distancing the party from the labour unions by stopping them from voting in blocks, thereby diminishing their power. there was even a candidate, whose name escapes me now, who was openly encouraging this change. jim, george, chris, barry and the bctf aren't stupid. they realized that they could control carole james and they were right. hence you have her now walking a tightrope, trying to appear moderate (which is what she'd really like) while promising teachers the right to strike etc., which will be her undoing. as nice, intelligent and genuine as she is, if the ndp doesn't win at least 20 seats she'll be gone in a year, and the next convention will be very interesting indeed.

And the Campbell Liberals will continue to be the party of big business. Raking in millions of dollars and returning favours via legislation. Absolutely corrupt. But never taken to task on it by the likes of the premier's brother, Vaughn Palmer, Michael Smythe, Bill Good etc.

Instead, we're all supposed to ignore their past crimes and imagine a terrible world where teachers have the right to strike.

When people decide to choose a radical like Campbell over a moderate like James it says a lot.

Yammer and others, Carole had the support of pretty well all of the public sector unions, plus others too that knew her during her "School Trustee Days", plus, in my estimation, a fair number of the "professional political cadre/brass" within the NDP were rooting for her too. Thus her campaign was well-funded. Also, Carole has many positives, honest, energetic, a woman -going up against Campbell was likely seen as a positive by many, well-intentioned, hard-working, enthusiastic, committed to building the party from the brink of extinction (2 seats), moderately well-informed on the political issues, honest and with integrity, but essentially from a policy perspective, a centrist, or right of centre candidate.

Also, remember, this was a delegated Leadership Convention, and the public sector unions got what they wanted...and that was Carole James. Leonard Krog - who ran on a more leftist, 'social democratic' platform came in second. ...and yours truly, myself, articulating novel social democratic economic and political ideas ..about 'economic democracy' and 'taking political power out of Victoria and the Premier's office' was way, way too Left for delegates at that Convention. In my view, the Left was very under-represented as delegates at the Convention - while within the Party itself, there are far more members on the Left who had little to no say either at the Convention, or within the Party. The Executive of the Party has in my view, no political space for those genuinely on the Left..and until there is a "one member one vote" system...the Left within the NDP will remain shut-out period!

I think, the party needs to break its constitutional ties with Labor, implement the "one member one vote" system, allow direct election by party members of the Leader and other key party positions on the Executive, and drop the 'aspiration' to be a "small-l" liberal party on the centre...and allow 'political space' for ideas, and candidates from the creative Left to emerge. If they don't do this and soon, after this provincial election, it maybe that those on Left, "NDP Classic" will forever leave or split with the "NDP Lite"...and form a new party/social democratic movement on the Left, in which case the NDP will be fini...and just be another 'small-l' liberal party...with minimal difference than the Liberals and others party's that support the Capitalistic/corporate system and its continued dominance in Canada.

In my view, the 'right' and 'centrists', including organized public sector union activists within the NDP, very much need the "Lefties" to still make it appear to the public that the party is a 'social democratic party' that provides 'political space' to the Left--which frankly, it barely does at all. This current platform, written by the Centrists and "small-l" liberfals within the Party is illustrative of the complete lack of ideas for a re-invigorated social democracy that group has - essentially, it is a platform mean to attrack genuinely "small-l" liberal voters who together with solid "NDP'ers" can't stand Campbell's far right dogma. Time will tell whether they can win on such a platform...mean to go after those who normally might vote Federal Liberal.

Campbell has taken this province very far to the right, and the very fact that the BC NDP platform fails to undo any of what Campbell has done...shows exactly how far to the right the NDP have drifted themselves with this platform. The creatve, social-democratic Left, the "NDP classic" supporters...have lost completely to the 'small-l" liberals and the "NDP Lite" that now control that party. ...and small -l - liberals need to play it safe and nice, and that is why I agree with Rafe's primary conclusion about Leadership of the NDP.

...there is a class war in BC, and Corporate BC, is not about to give up on that, they want continuance of the 'privileges' and 'influence' and being 'nice' about that political fact is reflective of how far right the small -l liberal NDP party has swung in this historical context.

To not aspire in the platform to undo anything Campbell has done, except to bring back BC Ferries as a Crown corporation...is also illustrative. Natural gas royalties in BC are in par with low-ball Alberta, a more daring BC NDP could have proposed to raise them, and use those extra revenues to substantially lower tuition fees, bring back some of the medical servies slashed under Campbell, etc. etc. ...and send a message to corporate BC...that working people count much more than the privileges and excessive profits of Big Business. Also, going after Alcan ..which is making big $$$ from the exports of power...rather than using that power to produce more aluminium and create more jobs, or put more value-added into their product.
...anyways...there ya have my take on it.

Thanks Peter! I like the insider info, although I don't know 'Delegated Leadership' from a bowl of chili (well, that is what I am eating right now).

To join you on your digression about the left being left out, I don't know that voters know that Carole James is a centerist. I think she's perceived as left. If I were her trusted adviser, which it is probably good for her that I am not, I would urge her to talk about what left/right means to her and where she thinks the leader ought to be on that, in clear language which demonstrates the benefit to the voter.

You know, lemons --> lemonade.

It would be a good day if the NDP split into its component parts. I'm sure we only stay together because the right is also one big voting block.

Elections should have way more voices putting forward different ideas and actually discussing policy. Instead of 2 big parties scared to say anything that might offend 1% of the voters.

More parties would provide more choice and people could stop holding their nose as they mark their "x".

Vote STV and it will make sense for the NDP to splinter.

Actually, I find myself in the unenviable position, over a sardine sandwich and a cuppa tea for lunch, of actually agreeing somewhat with Frank.

Though I think Peter has a better grasp of the real dynamics Certainly the labour movement's "culture" would be improved in my view, by relying more on itself and a whole hell of a lot less on the NDP. It's a sorely compromised match for labour frankly, as in it compromises them especially the most, I think. For power, instead of playing the backroom game the NDP favours, they would be forced to actually go to and mobilize their own rank and file, where the money would be better spent, frankly. And it would overcome a whole hell of a lot of division and bitterness over "politics" within the trade union movement, which has been a part of the sapping of its vigour.

Plus, for a really important bonus, they would immediately find themselves in the position of being able to take ANY government to task, for its failures to serve the people's interests. It would change the whole dynamic of politics

Summat happened. I hit the wrong something before completeing this piece.

To continue...
and internal relationships within the House of Labour. To me, a positive thing.

As for the NDP, I don't really put a whole lot of faith in political parties anyway, but certainly politics generally would be better served over the long run by more options, ideas and personalities being made available to the people. And if the alliance on the right continues to hold, so be it. Let folks feel the heft of that for awhile, and the consequences, which would have another whole effect-, in my view, over time, elevating the status of people in motion and direct action.

It is going to be the direct action of people in motion, acting on their own behalf and taking bold initiatives, through their own labour and other organizations, uncontrolled by any party structures, that is likely going to have the greatest impact in democratizing both the economy and future political life.

Where we are as a total society, and within the movements of the people, is stuck in the bloody muck spinning our wheels. Something needs desparately to give here, to open up the operative dynamics and set affairs in motion again. Otherwise, the damned ruling class simply continues to rule and kick ass, while radical politics and the people remain paralyzed.

We need unity, yes, but not a forced, spoon fed one, that like the "crippled" capitalist democratic system, is more formal than real. We need a changed dynamic in the political life, but also in the institutions of the people, and twixt Pete's suggestion and that of Frank's, it just might be done.

The "unity" so much bespoke of by social dems in labour and the NDP is pretty much a make believe one anyway. It has more in common with a forced march going in circles.

Couldn't agree more, why should Frank's party and Peter and Coyote's party be forced to smile and hold hands all the time. Why not work together only on issues where we agree? Like you say, spoon-fed unity doesn't make anyone happy.

Of course if STV is defeated it'll never happen because we'll be forced back inside the same tent in order to come as close as we can to 50%.

...within BC...one may indeed see the rise of regional parties...who could then 'co-operate' on issues, policies and legislation...ie. the Vancouver Island party, the Kootenay party, the North Coast party...essentially a 'ward' system for the province.....such parties don't intend to get elected to form government....they will intend to represent their regions and form alliances with other regional parties...and frankly, STV would be a death-blow to such a possibility....as, for example, the Kootenay party, which could win the hearts & minds of the majority of Kootenay residents...would under STV ..be reduced to nothing ...when tallied again bigger parties that seek to poorly represent the interests of the province as a whole. For that, and other reasons I shall not vote STV. ..as it would be death -blow to principles such as subsidiarity, and territorial politics...where 'politicians' must be close and accountable to their territorial base to get elected/re-elected. In my view poltiical parties, centralized at the coast., run by 'party brass/cadres', run by business or union elites ...are not my preferred way to go.

Peter, there's a gap in your logic there. How is STV a death blow to forming alliances with other parties? I was folowing you but then you came up with that and I don't see the how.

Why would the Kootenay party be reduced to nothing?

How is your politicians are less accountable under STV to their riding than they are now?

As for your last bit, parties are already centralized at the coast and run by the elites and I don't see how STV makes them moreso.

One major reason that the BC Liberals will win the next election is because of the biased media coverage. I read the Sun and Province everyday, and I can tell you that the majority of news stories are spun to favour the BC Liberals. Journalists have let off the BC Liberals easy on everyone of Rafe's list of BC Liberal transgressions. Why? You'd have to ask the journalists. When I heard all the talk shows apologizing for Campbell's reckless drunk driving, I knew that no matter what the BC Liberals did, it wouldn't matter. They haven't even made a big stink about the closed door journalists face when trying to get information from the provincial government. My guess is that either the media is scared to cross the BC Liberals because they won't have access to government officials anymore, or they are out-right biased against the NDP and are cheering the BC Liberals on. Real journalism has gone down the toliet in BC.

Politicians will be less accountable under STV because the party elites will decide who gets to be a candidate instead of local riding associations. If you don't like parachute candidates (such as Carol Taylor, Wally Oppal, etc.) then just wait and see what happens with STV. The selection of party candidates will be far too strategic to be left up to ordinary members of the party.

That's a legitimate concern. But then I'm not happy about busloads of new members hijacking party meetings now.

But! At least under STV there's a greater chance of a party member who runs as an indepenedent being elected without the party machine behind him because the number required to be elected is less.

No party would ever accept a person back into their fold if they snubbed their noses at the backroom decision makers and ran as an independent. Perhaps, if they had the backing of the backroom guys and lost their nomination at the local riding association level they would be invited back in if they won as an independent. But, no way would they ever be brought back if they didn't do as the party elites asked them. So, if their former party got into government, don't expect anything from that member of the legislature in the way of influence.

Actually there's a case right now of whatshisname (Cadman?) in Surrey losing the nomination and running as an independent and winning and basically being back in the fold.

And regardless of how the party elites feel about the guy he'll have lots of influence if his vote is required.

My view is, especially if the NDP fails again here, it is not going to hold together anyway. There has always been rumbling within the trade union movement, certainly the closer you get to the actual work place, but now I even hear some of the leadership expressing doubts.

I have some concerns about regional "parties" as well, but I would want to think on it before commenting further. I just don't, in the short term at least, see political parties, period, playing a useful role in the evolution of a move towards greater democracy in society. The greater likelihood is a multiplicity of parties along class lines, only regionally based. But I really can't see that either. The business class will stick with the Liberals, over the coming period anyway. Though, like I say, I want to think on it and see some indicators of the future, rather than try to grab something out of mixed bag. Though I would not want to rule Peter's view as being wacko either. I have too much respect for him for that. There is something about it that does ring genuine, I concede.

Now, one might say, that such a development as the breakup of the NDP and the left in its current form, will result now in an extended period of right wing government in BC. We will know better the day after election day, of course.

I think, however, that fear may possibly be true-, but trying to hold the carcass of the NDP up in the saddle longer too, like some mythical El Cid, if that is what is to be, is not going to change things one jit either. Better we all get settled into "the new reality" and deal with what shakes out of that tree. (The NDP as the centre of "the left" has been a dead horse for awhile actally.)

I'm not really a believer in predestiny, and suspect those who are, but it just may be that the die is already cast anyway, by events to here. Now, folks are just going to have to feel the heft of that too, and the consequences they are themselves at least partly responsible for.

Sometimes what seems a bad thing is just one door closing, in advance of another one opening.

The right will also splinter. The only thing holding the social cons and the fiscal cons together is the fact that they can agree on holding the fort against the NDP.

Insightful article , Rafe. Really that's quite a smorgasbord of betrayals by the BC Liberals but the NDP seems content to just nicely nibble away at it. It could have been quite a lively meaty feast. (Must be near dinner, the food metaphors are appearing).

The lack of indepth and unbiased reporting by the media has definitely played a large part in normalizing Campbell's mean-spirited agenda but then, too, it is incumbent on the Opposition to find a way to bring attention to itself and to its issues even if it means riding naked on horseback.

Sometimes I think there is a significant undercurrent of real outrage by the electorate that is well hid and not reflected in the polls that may surprise on election day. But that is just intuition on my part, and sometimes wildly wrong. It is reflected though in signs now appearing round our town that are not partisan in nature but instead reveal a disgust for what has transpired over the last four years. So who knows?

I wish Carole James well. She has a kind dignity about her that I like...but as Peter Dimitrov alludes to above, "Campbell has taken this province very far to the right," dangerously so, because of that I wished for more, so much more in the way of a vision, a way to retrieve what has been lost.

Lynn, in an environment like this one where the media is so biased even the Seattle paper comments on it, Carol James could take off her clothes and set her hair on fire and the media would still ignore anything she said. In fact they'd probably lead with an article on how MADD is playing politics, milking their personal tragedies just to attack their hero.

I agree that is the greatest likelihood.

Still, no one has been more critical of the NDP than I, and they bloody deserve it, but like Lynn, I still hope they will pull it out of the hat. I mean, am I really going to hope the friggin' Neocon Libs win? Then I can continue to ignore reality, and at least pretend current society will hold until I have no further use of it at all.

If the NDP does secure the election, I will disappear from these pages and say no more. Youngsters, it's your shit to deal with.

The NDP has this predilection, developed and honed over the past couple of decades, of falling into confusion and then seeking to work their way out of it by falling into what I've called the "nice lady syndrome". They've done it federally and provincially. As a tactic it's harmless enough although it wins no votes beyond the core but as a strategy it's destructive in the long term because it sends the indelible message that the party isn't as interested in governing as it is in being shocked and appalled along the sidelines.

No doubt, Frank, the media has played the largest part in propping up Campbell and his government and ignored the NDP. They have really failed the people of this province by refusing to investigate and by not asking the questions that need to be asked. Maybe, Carole James should build a small cedar sundeck... that seems to get their undivided attention.

Coyote... well, I really hope you reconsider that idea. We'd miss you and probably need your sage commentary more than ever. Besides, you're kind of a chick magnet here, haven't you noticed?:-)

Coyote's not going anywhere. I have plans to upload his persona to the Tyee website after his body fails. Although I did consider sending him as a virus into Gordo's laptop.

Sorry for all the posts in the last 36 hours people but I've had some free time. Well, that and the fact that David Beers is having a contest where the most prolific comments person wins a cruise culminating in a free tour of Gordo's drunk tank in Maui.

Well, tomorrow the campaign starts. I've looked at Will McMartin's numbers and they're depressing.

However, I firmly believe Carol is a good choice for these times and so I will go out on a limb and predict Carol James beats Campbell 41-38 in seats and that the 2 parties will be no more than 2% apart in popular vote.

I just think that as people get to see more of her as they tune in for the debate and other related election viewing that her numbers will move up. Campbell I believe has already peaked.

How biased is the media in the Lower Mainland? When Rafe Mair is on the left of that media spectrum, you have a pretty good idea. Yet there is no doubt where even his loyalties still lie. His description of James as a "thoroughly decent, nice woman" is really an attempt to damn by faint praise, as is made obvious by the fact that those phrases are quickly followed up by a reference to the Peter Principle and the statement that School Board will be her crowning achievement. (She was president of the BC School Trustees Association for five years, not simply chair of the Victoria School Board).

I have never met James, I am not a member of any political party. All I know about her is what I see and hear in the media. And even through that god awful screen, I see a woman of considerable intelligence and poise. Notice how she listens to, and answers questions. Compare that with Campbell, (and for that matter, every single Campbell Liberal cabinet memeber I have seen interviewd this term) whose response to any question is canned talking points. I mentioned it in another post at another site a few days ago, but if anybody saw the way she conducted herself with the simpering Vaughn Palmer on Voice of BC a week or so ago as he tried to get under her skin, there is no doubt she has both intellect, and political smarts. Me, I would have jumped across the table and wrung his neck about half way through the program.

BC could do a lot worse than a "thoroughly decent, nice woman", who is also intelligent, honest, and even wise. Certainly puts her a cut above a few other political leaders I could mention.

Frank, Chuck Cadman sits as an independent, but good try.

I know that Chris, but its obvious where his loyalties lie and certainly the CPC doesn't badmouth him either.

Gimme a second, I'm still chuckling over Lynn's comment. Even if it were true, Lynn, I'm sure I'd be too modest to notice. :-) I will only observe that men like women who like men. Women aren't a whole bunch different than men. Other than in ways we men celebrate. :-)

Frank's electoral outcome prediction of 41:38 would be nice. Even the inverse would be acceptable. Not is it outside the realm of all possibility, allowing for the wide fluctuations that can go on over the process, and even a corporate media shut-out-, if folks really are mad enough at the Liberals and cooled the ardour of their anger over the NDP.

So, here's hoping Frank is on the money.

That said, I return to Frank's earlier observation that 4 years of NDP rule tends not to undo 4 years of the Neocon Alliance, I think. Time to face the reality kiddies. Neither has Carole nor her party evidenced that they have the stomach to even try, in any serious way. (Unless they are prepared to play the Gordo game of doing differently or more in power than what they promised. Which I would say they should, but I think will not. It's not "nice", as Lynn would say-, the bane of the NDP centrists dressed up as left.:-)

So, I am not optimistic about the results to be achieved, even under an NDP administration, though they will at least not be the Neocon Alliance. Hopefully however, they will at least be inclined to hold the line and buy the rest of us some time. (And there is that pathetic tendency to shoot themselves in the foot, and the corporate media to use it as the springboard to another hysteria campaign, driving them from office.)

Even assuming a win, of the magnitude Frank predicts, which is about the best to be expected in the circumstances, I will be surprised if the NDP-Labour alliance holds, or the NDP continues to be seen by elements of "the left" certainly, as the vehicle around which it can into the sunset continue to gather.

First for the reason the main body of NDP insiders, demonstrated in the Dosanjh defection and a number of other similar incidents and statements, and even reflected in the Carole James programme, really just want to be true small "l" liberals. (The Greens would really like to land there too, I think.) And they are some encouraged to move that way by the shifting to the further right of the Liberal Party itself under Campbell, and even Martin demonstrates a desire to move further to the right and draw away soft Conservatives. (Though right now, because of Gomery, the defections are going the other way.)

The point being however, that there is movement and musical chairs going on all along the political spectrum, with the pull towards the right. Let's face it, Neocon ideology is in an ascendancy period right now within capitalism, and will tend to pull all ships into trying to catch their wind. That is destined to change all politics, in my view, but it is going to split off the, for want of a better word, "serious left" from the NDP, sooner rather than later, and create a period of even further fragmentation of that "left".

Additionally, it is going to force a re-evaluation of strategy and tactic within the trade union movement, already bent over backwards, most notably at the level of the CLC, to try and accomodate itself to that movement of the political winds to the right. Either the labour movement itself is going to fall overboard itself in this current exercise, or it is going to have to move back upright towards and reconnect with its class base for a rejuvinated power base.

And they nor we should make any mistake about the labour movements real source of power, and the real direction of its potential to influence events. It is with their own members and the greater working class in which it is still rooted, though its own actions during the period of NDP reliance and chasing that empty dream, has done much to weaken that.

Now, like I said earlier, many look at chaos and see defeat. But choas almost always brings with it, opportunity in its mix as well. And what may actually be coming up here, for a left no longer distracted with the gamesmanship and intrigue of this party politics, and a trade union movement similarly so, and throwing good resources after bad in pursuit of that shortcut illusion, is another kind of opportunity. The realization of which may just have been there all along, in the very root meaning of their actual existance in the first place.

The chaff may just about to be blown off the wheat here, in my view. I even hope so. Which still doesn't mean it is going to be easy.

But it is really the Neocons who are going to do much of our work for us. Sometimes developments just have to be allowed an opportunity to mature-, like love. :-)

And I still agree with Frank, that overtime, if the NDP fragments and the labour movement returns to pursuit of, and mobilaization of its roots, "the right", or the Neocon Alliance around the Liberals is almost certainly destined to fragment as well. All they are being held together by is the existance of a largely bullshit left and labour alliance around the NDP.

If Frank is right, and hence I as well, whether or not a new STV voting system goes into place, a new dynamic may be about to be set loose in the politics of Lotusland. (Though Frank thinks, unlike I, that process will be assisted by an STV voting system.) Whatever, we shall see.

You should be able to tell that I actually want to see a new dynamic installed, which may be colouring my vision here. The time frame over which it will take for this to evolve is what is most questionable, but that the pressures are building is indisputable, I think.

Thanks Rafe for reminding me of the mega-million theft by Campbell government appointee and member-of-family car dealer bankruptee fraud artist, Doug Walls of Prince George. Oh yah, I should say "alleged" fraud artist shouldn't I, because aren't those charges still languishing in the works? Just like the long-time-coming court cases for the Basi Boys, and the decision on the fate of St. Paul's Hospital in Vancouver. All conveniently delayed until safely past election day.

And, don't you just wonder why a "respected" member of the BC judiciary (Wally Oppal) would want to throw his lot in with these louts??? When so many charges are pending related to people very closely allied with Gordon Campbell? Funny how the media hasn't mentioned anything lately about all these pending criminal cases? It all doesn't pass the smell test.

Gawd, it's like living in Kline's Alberta again where no paper prints anything but good news, and no one feels free to speak their minds even in the most innocuous of settings. I say, let's stop navel gazing and roll up our sleeves in whatever way we as individuals can to stop from becoming victims of the corporate / media juggernaut.

Why are most media complicit? No secret: Don't bite the hand that feeds. So as long as individual members of the public don't protest in any numbers or do so only by politely sending letters to the editor (where it's as likely to be ignored as anything), individual people will have no power (even though we pay the bills). The media don't see the public as their constituency any more. No longer is their mandate to ensure the people get the truth. Those days are gone, but maybe not forever. I forsee a backlash, it's just a matter of how bad things have to get before the backlash occurs, how long will it take people to wake up to what they're losing.

Members of the public have to be noisy, visible, and only then will we regain the power we have lost to the corporations and the mainstream media. That's why I'm so indebted to David Beers and The Tyee for launching this admirable venture to create a viable "mass media" alternative to those who've been bought by corporations to get the message of big business out.

So, let's all get out there to do what we can to make change happen. Work to defeat the Liberals -- that's the opportunity we each have right in front of our noses today -- right now at this instant. They haven't computerized voting here yet, so we still have a chance to actually elect our own government. (Who knows, it may be the last time we get a chance to have our votes counted in a verifiable way before the Liberals bring in U.S.-style voting machines.)

Call your local candidate's office and ask how you can help. (And No, I'm not a card carrying NDP member.) The Liberals aren't just talking, they're out there DOING and all of us who are opposed to them should be doing the same thing if we don't want to suffer whatever the Liberals may be hiding up their sleeves if they get in again.

Today's a great day to do something concrete, something positive for yourself and for your communities. So let's get out there and DO IT!

"That's why I'm so indebted to David Beers and The Tyee for launching this admirable venture to create a viable "mass media" alternative to those who've been bought by corporations to get the message of big business out."

Is "mass media" bought out by big labour any better?

I'd have to say "Yes, JIm it is," in this case anyhow. No where in BC's mainstream press is it so easy for a readership to respond to an article than here at The Tyee. The fact you can post the question is testament to that. Do you think the Sun would run a letter to the editor if all it said was, "CanWest is in the mouthpiece of big business?" I doubt it.

You may take issue with the editorial bend of The Tyee, but I doubt you will ever not be permitted to say so.

I just read in the Province- Gordo`s increasing the chocolate ration.

I would have though even to you it would be an obvious, "Yes!"

You're here with a voice and vote the same as the rest of us. Now where the fuck are you going to find that in any corporate media, and hear the level and diversity of debate that exists here?

What a dumb question, even from a source famous for them.

Excellent piece and dead on the money. We're in the pickle we are, the left, progressives and the labour movement, precisely because we have not paid enough attention to mobilizing, making visible and helping to focus that public voice.

We though it was enough, in and of itself, to focus on "electoral success" as being the real source of The Power![/I], and in the process forgot what was long ago learned at the founding of the trade union, progressive and left movements within capitalism: The "Power" really does reside with the people, NOT in the institutions of status quo power.

But not if their sidelined to mere Xs on the ballots of a mere "formal" democracy, that otherwise excludes them from real Power, in the most meaningful institutions of society and especially, the economy. That great potential of People Power only works if they are made aware of it, and put into motion in defence of their own interests, and those political and other forces that would truly transform society on their behalf and including them. Not in a lip service kind of way, but for real.

The fundamental problem with all the so-called [I]revolutionary social movements to here has been, that in the end, they only acted in "the people's name", and while they paid them lip service, actually created new institutions and elites that actually "ruled" over them, little different than what had been.

It's time to get back to basics. That's where the most meaningful possibilities for real change reside.

This election, won or lost in the end, needs to be seen as a springboard to that, apparently "new" but actually "very old" approach to working class power. The people in motion and aware.

You bunch of cowards, let's see some predictions. No calling me an idiot unless you put your own numbers up.

On the subject of "idiot" I just want to add a disclaimer. I have picked the Canucks to win Lord Stanley's silverware every year since 1970. Yes, even when Bill Laforge was coach. Obviously I find it difficult to separate what I want to see happen from reality.

But regardless, I'm sticking with Carol in a squeaker unless chuck is right and Gordo really did increase the chocolate ration in which case I'll be voting Lib.

Now why didn't more of you show up at the book launch for Liberalized? I hear Carol James had a great turnout for her campaign launch so I hope that was your excuse.

more likely they were out heckling gordon campbell. wouldn't want to let the liberals exercise their right to free speech and assembly. besides, that's a lot more exciting than listening to carole.

Actually john, I don't believe any NDP'ers showed up to heckle Campbell. Young Libs did show up to heckle James at each stop however.

Gives them something to do I guess since their candidates won't debate.

Hey, Coyote, please don't leave! We especially need your voice if the N.D.P. gets in--to help keep them honest!

i am so sick of the right trying to take the moral high ground when referring to labour participation in politics or media.the infleunce of labour vs the infleunce of business is certainly dwarfed in comparision. if you look at political party donations over the last decade,the truth is pretty easy to find.67% of the roughly 42 million dollars the fiberals received come from corporate or business sources.during the same period labour donated appr.10% of the ndp's 24 million dollars.typical campbell arrogance to snivel about labour participation in any part of the process.remember that what unions want for themselves they want FOR ALL.certainly not the mantra of right wing business,in fact the absolute opposite!so once and for all gordo get off the soap box when it comes to labour speaking out and quit trying to claim moral high ground on this issue.talk about the classic shell game.

Lynn and Frank, I've got a feeling that you're both right about the outcome of the election, and, all considered, I think Carole James was a perfect candidate. The electorate is not ready to go for a showboating, socialist left-winger at this time. I think Rafe's heckling of Carole James as a weak leader is a bit off base. This one will be a surprise for most: NDP will win by a squeaker. If I'm wrong I'll certainly not blame James. She's done her best and she's honest. What more can we ask?