The Liberals suggested moving the fixed election date into the fall, yet when they did that you posters and the NDP jumped all over them. They realized a problem, also the auditor general’s report could be out then to, could arise and when they tried to do something about it they were buried in criticism. You just have to complain about everything. Tell me what's going to happen when Joy McPhail is screeching about some obscure budget item? Nothing, except that she will be able to hear her voice for one of the last times in the legislature. This debate is all about optics. They may as well have the debate to satisfy all you whiners out there. Actually the people they learned most of these tricks from are the NDP. It’s too bad the Liberals have sunk to the level of the NDP.

JIm, you make it sound like those Liberals are actually capable of intellectual renewal. Now you've gone way overboard.

Unlike JIm I must have missed the episode where Premier Gordon Campbell suggested changing his own fixed election date to one in the Fall. (Question for JIm: If Campbell really thinks Fall dates are preferable, as I do, why didn't he make it a Fall date in the first place???). I believe that Premier Dalton McGuinty has proposed fixed September or October dates in Ontario, and I would be very happy if we could have both our local and provincial elections on the same day in October or November, preferably a Saturday.

Below is my remarks on judge's high pay to show the inconsistency of my liberal party..
To the editor:
The independent judges compensation commission recently gave the provincial judges a pay increase of 23% that will start in 2006 plus they are due for a cost of living increase in the following year.There is a law that prevents the government from negotiating wages with the judges.
As other provincial and crown corporation workers are held to zero increases and few make 198 thousand per year, I would suggest that the government contest this increase through the legal system. I realize this seems foolish as the decision will involve judges, but at least details of the reason for the increase and what benefits they may receive will appear in court records and perhaps in the media. Plus just maybe we will get to know the names of the members on the very mysterious judges compensation commission. It is after all supposed to be an 'open' government.
If the Liberals just sit on their hands and don't contest the increase one has to wonder why, when they vigorously contest every other wage increase. Thank you..Bob Ritchie Qualicum Beach 250 752 6447

Wow. We sure are clear on what to expect from the Liberals after re-election. Lies, half-truths, no accountability and lack of understanding of the value of our tax dollar. Oh yah, and stomp on democracy.

I for one am pleased that the Liberals have decided not to seek to have their budget adopted. It will save the incoming NDP government the hassle of having to revoke it later. Bring it on!

I like your optimism, AO. Let's hope the NDP have their act together.

Bob, I think you're onto something.

The delightful cheekiness of you politely laying this at the feet of those least effected by a miserly government policy, yet most able to react to it, is so full of irony.

I read it over several times just to breath in my fill. Thank you.

JIm-bo, you still here? I thought you went south. Look, I really think you are an NDPer who just likes to play devil's advocate and raise hell on this website. I say this because only a moron would herald the absolute disrespect that this government has given the citizens of this province. Sure, in 2001 the NDP did not deserve to return to power, but then I never voted to have the legacy of this province dismantled and distributed to American interests, to have the rich get richer at the expense of average working people, to have the social fabric torn to shreds, or to have the public education system so poorly underfunded for the sole purpose of privatization. There's much more, JIm. This business of ending debate over the budget to gain an advantage for the election shouldn't surprise anyone. Such behaviour is to be expected of neo-conservatives. It follows that only a moron would support the BC Liberal agenda. Eh, JIm?

One correction needs to be made to "The NDP Did it" part of this story. The reforms Mr. McMartin refers to were introduced by then-NDP finance minister Paul Ramsey in the Budget Transparency and Accountability Act (2000). That legislation included a requirement for the Deputy Minister of Finance to attest in writing to the validity of the forecasts, material assumptions and policy decisions underlying the budget. The legislation stemmed from recomendations contained in a report by then auditor-general George Morfitt on the so-called "fudge-it budget" saga. The Budget Transparency Act was designed to ensure that fudge-it budgets could never happen again in BC. If Mr. McMartin checks he will find that Budget 2001, the final NDP budget, contained such an attestation in the front of the budget documents as required under the Act.

it shouldn't matter if gordo has 100 billion to spend on the election. if people have a decent memory they should be able to turf him. unfortunately a lot of have nots will probably fall for the propaganda or be too lazy to vote. and this carol james is not exactly captain charisma. i'll be voting against gordo not for james.

McMartin's excelent article clearly suggests the real reason for the BC Liar's eagerness for fixed election dates: using money that's supposed to go to running constituency offices, and worse, using money intending to futher democratic debate for the subversion of democracy. How quintisentially BC Backstabber! This should make BCers highly suspicious of STV, if they're not already, another BC liar approved "democratic initiative."

While I in no way disagree with Bob's remarks above about how reprehensible it is for wealthy judges to be gettting a salary increase under shrouded observation, there was a recent piece of good news on the legal front reported in yesterday's Crapwest media. It seems that over 38,000 of Canada's lawyers plan on contesting the BC liar's decision to ignore the judgement of a BC Supreme Court magistrate that they must stop charging the PST to poor people for legal aid. Both ironically, and projectile vomitting inducingly, THE ORIGINAL PURPOSE OF THE PST ON LEGAL AID WAS TO PROVIDE THE ACCESS OF THE POOR TO THE COURTS AND JUSTICE...the BC liars would not know a democratic impulse if they tripped over one, as they well may do next May 17...

To John Kay: For the life of me I can't figure out what the fiscal reforms introduced by the NDP in 2000 have to do with a fixed-budget date, nor the Campbell government's desire to recess the legislature before passing the 2005-06 estimates. But thanks for your letter. Will

We, all of us face the greatest challenge the free democracies have ever faced in our rules surrounding campaign and party financing. It sounds melodramatic, but I believe the risk to our way of life is greater even than war.

We've essentially legalized bribery by allowing officials to take enormous amounts of money and other benefits from anybody at all, secretly and with any strings they want attached to it.They just have to recieve the money before being elected, or through their party organizations.

Then when elected, these bought officials have access to enormous pots of tax money. Billions of dollars, and they also get control of the structures we built to protect our money, auditors and ombudsmen and such. If they destroy our ability to monitor our money, they can hand it out in truckloads to their contributors for little or no return. A kind of legalized theft.

This is what they mean by 'rule of law'--make the law match what you want to do, and then what you do will be legal. What citizens usually mean by rule of law is quite different.

The only fix for this is to disconnect the checks and balances from the authority of elected officials. Set them in the constitution in such a way that they require a full ballot to amend them, then extend the laws regarding bribery to include political contributions. We would have to fund all campaigns with public money, but it would be worth it to eliminate this giant corruption that has grown up here.

If broadcast media and newspapers were required as a term of their licenses to provide lots of public service exposure for all candidates and issues, for debates and documentaries etc. this could ameliorate the expense to taxpayers.

What we're seeing now, and not only in Canada, is the transferrence of public property into private hands, for these contributions. Essentially a huge robbery is under way. It will most likely lead to a new kind of Feudalism, rule by bank balance, rather than law. and the bank balances that are intended to rule us are being built with our own money, right under our noses, by people who are calling themselves 'neo'. New. New-conservatives. New-liberals.

They are not who they used to be. Not who we think they are. We must regain public control over these new people whoever they really are.

Will,

Please name the "observers [who] believed the Legislative Assembly would remain in session until April 19, when the election writ is due to be dropped."

p> Budd, yes he should have made a fall date all along, I'm not sure why he didn't do it initially, but he did say he would like to move the date to the fall. Predictably, his critics jumped all over him for suggesting that they should move the "fixed" date. So the NDP sacrificed a better date for all British Columbians so they could needlessly criticize the government. That's a government you want, one that sacrifices province wide benefits for short term political gain.

Yes, I must be a moron because I disagree with your ideological dream world. The best posts are the ones that sink to personal attacks. It makes it clear to everyone that the poster has nothing intelligent to say.

billly hit the nail on the head ! That is the way a lot of voters are going . Carol James had better get her act together if the NDP are to survive in B.C.

To Norman Spector: In an attempt to be succinct, word "observers" was used instead of "All people who checked the Legislative Assembly of British Columbia's web-site which has a 'Parliamentary Calendar for 2005' showing the House would sit from February 8 to March 17, then recessing, resuming again April 4 to 21, recessing once more, and again sitting from May 2 to 19 before the summer recess; and who saw the Elections BC web-site showing dissolution scheduled for April 19, providing the necessary 28-day period before the legislated general election date of May 17; all of which means the legislature likely would sit from February 8 to dissolution, with one scheduled recess." Will

Bailey: it's good that you see the corruption operating within our electoral process and, by extension, within government.

It goes beyond partisan politics, doesn't it? And yet, that's the way the system is set up -- with the people becoming our own adversaries -- so that while we're bickering and upsetting one another -- bad things can continue to happen.

Maybe Step #1 in taking back the province is to shake off party affiliations and remember our collective humanity. I know, I know ... there's a well-worn pejorative which somebody will hurl ... but we're well and truly doomed if we can't rise above it and make Step #1 a positive move.

Will,

I'm not sure how you'd know what observers
"believed," but your explanation above accords with my understanding; that is, I cannot think of a single "observer" who might have "believed" that who actually said or wrote it.

From what you've written, I take it that you believed it and were surprised it is not turning out that way, which is fair enough.

Personally, I am not at all surprised by this turn of events.

Nothing wrong with remembering "our collective humanity", Red roses, but these neo-cons, in the final analysis, are not about party politics, they really don't give a damn for the ideas behind governance. They are a wealthy elite operating above, beyond, around, inside, and under the political realm for their own self-interests.

They organize under the chambers of commerce, the business associations, the Fraser Institute etc. That's where Gordon Campbell goes when he tours "the province". When's the last time he addressed the real public, even went near a town hall, answered a question in the legislature? He hardly needs the public anymore (except at voting time) because the wealthy elite is funding this so-called political party with ever increasing sums of money. It is just a front that they have infiltrated for their own means.

They would love to see us give up any structure we could organize under...political parties, unions, civil liberties associations, teacher's federations, human rights commissions, environmental bodies. We would be playing directly into their fascist hands.

In the last four years we have witnessed their attempts to destroy all the linkages necessary to the defense of our human and civil rights. However, I agree with you that we are in for the fight of our lives but I don't think "our collective humanity" is well-armed enough yet to go it alone. It has hardly woken from it's slumber.

Hey Norm Spector and Will McMartin are having a chick fight in this thread. Cool! Two giant Conservative egos do battle.

All governments bribe voters with their own money. Do you believe governments should close hospitals and schools for three months prior to an election? Thats what governments do - collect and spend money.

As for the Norm vs. Will fun, I have to agree with Norman, Anyone who thought the BC Liberals were going to stick around the legislature for two months debating budget estimates is a fool.

Oh, and by the way, the Premier did suggest moving the fixed election date to the Fall of 2005 and the media and NDP jumped down his throat, claiming it was a "broken promise".

Norman Spector: Why am I not surprised that you'd register an objection? McMartin's point was crystal clear, the Legislature's sittings and the budget non debate are being managed to provide the party in power with the greatest possible monetary advantage before the election. Seems to me he made the point that the "Liberals" are not the only party to practice such manipulation - why nit pick about the details? Perhaps he could have gone on to point out the kind of electoral reform needed in this province isn't just a question of adopting a half-baked scheme for a single transferrable ballot - but that's another question.
Besides, not everybody who reads McMartin has the undoubted advantage of your great experience and intellect - they might actually learn something!

Message for Jim,
I've been reading articles on this web site for a couple months now. If find them well written and informative. Also the comments are great to read. However, Jim, I wish you could be a bit more constructive. Most of your posts are inflammatory and offer little substance. It would be interesting to have you make your arguments in a more intellegent manner so that some debate could take place. Of course all of us and the NDP are going to complain everytime the Liberals do something we don't like, we're the opposition, that's our job. Don't the Liberals do the same thing when their in opposition. If you are so enragaged by this site, why not try Global where you are sure to find news more to your liking. Nice of you to participate, but if you have a point to make, try and make it without being so derogatory.

Because garth west, Norm, hopes to distract us from the point of this thread: that the BC liars after using taxpayer funds for months to lie about how good things are in BC when we lost 22,600 fulltime last year (Vancouver Sun, December 7, 2004) and now funded by a huge over-priveleged elite who care for nothing but their tainted uncampaigned on taxcut,is still not satisfied with that massive advantage, proving once again what cowards and rubber stamp pimps the BC liberal party is composed of.

Excellent points Bailey, but I think really we have been degraded from a rule of law, to a rule of lawyers, corporates lawyers, that is -the criminal lawyers being generally more progressive, and the corporate lawyers, most often...criminal. Pardon us poor, naive folks groovey pimpin', but wasn't it also the BC liars who refused to recognize the NDP as the official opposition, and who have conspired with Canwest media to destroy every vestige of denmocracy they could lay their hands on? I think the appearance of Norm, whose been a mere "spectre," on the Tyee lately, shows that Norm's owners are especially worried.

Now I would like to reiterate my pet peeve of the day, the new Mustel poll, which I suspect -god forgive my untrusting nature, of being bogus. According to the new poll, which of course not taken in districts that favor the BC liars, which we're all supposed to believe, isn't there, well, A CONFLICT OF INTEREST??, in that Evie Mustel, whose Daddy owns the Mustell corporation is running for MLA in North Vancouver, I believe. Has Evie Mustell LEFT Mustell polling?/ Gee, the Sun never even mentioned any connections...forgive my unworthy suspicions. I predicted such a poll a few days ago, and sure enough, the poll claims a 6 point spread between the liars and the NDP just enough to win! How 'bout that? And Gordon Liar's approval rating now at 40% and James' only at 31%. Hawaii all forgotten now, the hundreds of broken promises all forgiven? I don't think so. The other main polling company, whose name scapes me just now, always shows the NDP much closer to the liars so I woud say the two parties are still in a statistical dead heat...say what you like about James, but the media hasn't given her a chance, something they will be forced to do more in the election, and if the NDP releases their election plans now, Canwest will have three months to attack them instead of just six weeks. We're also about to see the start of endlees lies about the BC backstabbers nonexistent accomplishments. And I still don't see why the NDP can't fund ads for the Tyee in community newspapers, and use the Tyee actively to refer to in campaign speeches, media announcements etc, etc...THe Tyee could be a huge and quite cheap resource for the NDP in the upcoming election. This could hardly cost more than afew thousand, for ads in Monday Magazine, the Westender, the Courier and other newspapers in metropolitan areas. Tyee posters, why not e-mail the NDP site reccomending this to them, as I intend to do? If these things were done the Tyee could conceivably affect the outcome of the next election instead of merely preaching to the converted.

Chuck after every point I make I am labeled an idiot, moron or incompetent by 3-8 different posters. What should I do? Agree with you on everything. Is that the debate you want? I make my points then my points are responded to by personal insults. I do challenge what is said in the article and in the posts. So far there is only one poster who can actually make their point without falling back on union rhetoric, unsubstantiated “facts”, or personal attacks. I'm sorry to spoil NDP Lovefest 2005.

To Norman Spector: My sincere apologies, Norman, for failing to note your prediction of possible early end to current session of BC Legislative Assembly. I've gone back to your web-site, 'NORMAN PREDICTS,' which I believe you purchased from fellow Montrealer, Madame Jo-Jo Savard, astrological fortune-teller, where you offer forecasts for the week of February 20-26, as follows: prediction #6, Wild Vicar to win 4th race at Aqueduct Raceway on Monday, paying $11.40, $6.20 and $5.50; #7, Gordon Campbell's BC Liberal government to moot early rise of legislature prior to passing 2005-06 budget estimates, resorting instead to interim supply for as long as seven months; #8, Paris Hilton's personal telephone directory to be leaked to the media and cause considerable embarrassment as reporters ponder just who N.S., Victoria, is....

JIm, can you please tell me when it was that Premier Campbell said he wanted to move the fixed election date to the Fall? Was this a speech in the Legislature, or to some business lunch or dinner audience? In what city did Campbell say this? When in the Fall did Campbell want to have the election? In Sept? Oct? Nov? Would Campbell be willing to hold provincial and local elections together on the same Saturday in November, or October for that matter?

"Predictably, his critics jumped all over him for suggesting that they should move the "fixed" date. So the NDP sacrificed a better date for all British Columbians so they could needlessly criticize the government." Where is there a record of these NDP criticisms? Are they on the NDP Website by any chance??? Where did you find them, JIm???

"...I must be a moron because I disagree with your ideological dream world." What dream world is that? Surely JIm, you're not attempting to deny that you yourself are highly motivated and energized because Campbell has been putting large parts of your own ideological dream world into practice, ... except of course that business has only responded with more rhetorical praise and more silly advertising, not more fixed capital investment.

Regarding the earlier comment: "Hey Norm Spector and Will McMartin are having a chick fight in this thread. Cool! Two giant Conservative egos do battle." -- isn't the word "giant" redundant when linked to "Conservative egos"? But highly amusing nonetheless.

Hey cool! Will McMartin responds like a six year who just got his feelings hurt and tries to turn the fact that Norm is a Quebecer into an insult.

This is getting good. Maybe Norman can respond and accuse Will of selling out his conservative roots by whoring himself out as a critic of the BC Liberals for the last four years.

would you suggest that we turn this wonderful province over to the idiot hordes again? i voted for those ridiculous ideologues in 1991 and will never, and i mean never, vote for them again. dennis streifel, a shelf-stocker, as minister of children and families, corky evans, a chain-smoking logger, as minister of health, 8 ministers of education in 10 years... do i need to continue for those of you that are less intelligent than others?

Will,

Gordon Campbell has done a lot of politically stupid things since 2001. I've written about several--including his decision to adopt fixed election dates. However, even I never thought he'd be so dumb as to keep the Legislature in session in the lead-up to the election, since legislative sessions always advantage the opposition. That would be a level of stupidity this province has not seen since the days of Bill Vander Zalm. I've yet to hear the name of any seasoned political observer who said or wrote or even thought that Campbell would leave the legislature in session. For example, I wouldn't be surprised if Brother Tieleman--an ego-light leftie who seems to have joined this thread--would criticize the Liberals for adjourning the Legislature. However, since he is a seasoned political observer and has considerable political experience to boot--which explains his sensible position on STV--I'd be surprised if he were genuinely surprised by an adjournment--though I wouldn't discount the possibility that even he would serve up a thin veneer of feigned outrage, if partisan considerations overwhelmed reqiuired it. Frankly, I'm still surprised you thought Campbell would be so dumb as to leave the Legislature in session. Or, or is it that secretly, deep-down you are a Campbell fan and that you thought he would be principled on this question?

Tielman:

Not a bad attempt at humour but you're going to have to do better than that if you ever want to be published in a real newspaper.

groovy; you win the comment of the week award for that one. and how true it is. whatever would bill do without misguided idealism anyway?

Correction: The end of the third of last sentence should read: "if partisan considerations required it." Addendum: The reference to Vander Zalm should have included the example of "recall" which, like Campbell's fixed election dates, is foreign to the British parliamentary system of government. As is STV--another dumb idea we owe ultimately to Gordon Campbell's political stupidity. Like Vander Zalm, who grew up under a different political tradition, the US-educated Campbell lacks appreciation for what is--with all its defects-- the finest political system in the world, as we saw in his refusal to recognize the NDP as the official opposition. Even Quebec separatists like Jacques Parizeau have a greater understanding and appreciation for our system of government--having grown up under it (yes, in Montreal)and having looked at the alternatives.

Now if you could just write as you did at 10:36:09 pm in the Vancouver Sun, not likely to happen, is it, Norm?

Groovey PImpin', how is it possible for ANYONE to whore themselve as a critic of the BC liars...how could you possibly libel them? You'd only be telling the truth...

griper, I bring to your limited attention span the following in regards to BC "liberal" intellectual competence: Shirley Bond: former minister of education, who has been working on her B.A. for over a decade now; the intellectually gifted Mike De Jong, who makes elmer fudd look like a nobel prize winner; Lorne Mayencourt, who should change his last name to Lorne Bankruptcycourt, Clod Richmond, who's deeply confused about the tenets and structures of parliamentary democracy, a contagion that every bc liberal mla exhibits; Geoff Plant condemned by the law society of BC, and 38,000 Canadian lawyers, who are challenging his contempt for the decision of a BC Supreme Court judge that the BC liars must stop charging the poor pst on legal aid; and last, but not leashed: Gordon Liar, convicted of the criminal offense of drunk driving, who exhibits every single symptom of the classical definition of the psychopath as defined in evry psychiatric definition -the inability to admit mistakes, the inability to feel the pain of others, the need to lie and manipulate constantly, the inability to take responsibility for one's actions, and, substance abuse issues. Gee, griper, makes corky evans and dennis streiffel look like Winston Churchhills, doesn't it?

Oh, and I believe an unbiased audit, would find that the BC liberal caucus has fewer degrees collectively than any other provincial government in Canada. But then, what can we expect from neo-liberal rubber stamp pimps, who think "democracy" is just an expression used to trip up the opposition? Toodles...

Hombre:

If you think your degree in UVic pop-psychology gives you the experience to govern, you need to give your head a shake.

At best, you're Dr. Phil with an anger management problem.

What is all this talk about degrees around here lately? Does anybody still think that experience, qualification or even intelligence have anything at all to do with the acquisition of power in BC or Canada for that matter.

The only things you need to have power in BC lately is loyalty the The Leader, a willingness to put aside your own best judgement and the best interests of your 'constituants' to pursue the agenda of your masters.

The way they themselves put it is 'you have to dance with the ones who brought you'.

hombre; only an ndp'er could mention corky, dennis and winston in the same sentence.
who does that make glen clark, dave zirnheldt, moe sihota and jenny kwan look like?

"Legislature sessions always advantage the opposition," Norman writes. (Is 'advantage' a verb or is Norman just helping us along with the evolution of the language?) Well. Norman, thanks for this recitation of conventional wisdom. It's applicability in this instance is suspect, however, for two reasons, among others: (1) there is no effective or numerical opposition in the Legislature, and (2) debate on the estimates gives those seated on the treasury benches the opportunity to use every vote as a spending announcement. Presumably the press gallery won't be completely empty, and presumably the press will act as it always does, by rote, seizing on a convenient dollar number to head up a story. Norman wasn't around for the 1975 campagin, but as I recall Bill Bennett went into it with what appeared to be a substantial lead, then lost support (potential seats) as the campaign struggled to a close and people got to see him up close. the likelihood is that Campbell would benefit from a short campaign--too much exposure of one so distasteful may cause a coincident decline in electoral support. He'd be better off to stay in the House, out of sight, until the writ is dropped. Those old pros (?) relying on the conventional wisdom won't bring him down but they'll lose him seats.

bud, since neither of the parties sees it your way, you should be able to market yourself as an adviser to one of them. I think you mean the 1979 campaign. As to Campbell losing seats, he will lose seats no matter what he does--the only question is how many.

hombre, exactly which sentences that I've written here would you like to see in the Vancouver Sun?

I mean the 1975 campaign, Norman. Dave dropped the writ in November after imposing a 90-day cooling off period in the four major labour disputes that were under way at the time; the election was in December. I successfully marketed myself as an adviser in that campaign--say, you really are perceptive!

That was one of the worst election calls in the history of BC.

Destined avatars, from heaven, griper, heh, heh...

Well, norm, it wasn't so much as what you said, as what you didn't say. Conspicuously absent were the phrases, "manufactured crisis used as an excuse to assault the poor and the disadvantaged, stemming from the failed ideology of taxcuts pay for themselves," used as an excuse to set social justice back 30 years, and "any good economic news despite BC liberal actions and policies," -phrases lik that , norm. Of course I knoe you're entering a neo-liberal neverland when you right, sorry, write, for the sun, but Stephen hume, your better, manages moral distaste, you barely trumped Paul Willcocks, the master of praising by faint damnation, you sounded like a gambler placing his bets...credibility always demands a moral center, like clasic literature, groovey pimpin, as does politics demand a a party who are not parasitical, like the bc "liberals."...

sounds like you're living in the wrong place hombre. you might want to try france, sweden, boston, ottawa maybe.

You and I agree on something, Norman. It was a stupid election call. In that vein perhaps the only equivalent political blunder was Gordo's grandstanding fixed election date ploy. He elected (forgive the pun) to deny himself the flexibility to call an election at the most propitious time. Politicians survive by being opportunistic, so why limit one's opportunities? Who knows what circumstances might arise that might prompt one, sooner, or later, to call on the lovely and talented Iona? Gordo foreclosed upon that option and made absolutely no marks for so doing. He needs help but, despite your urging, I'm not available this go-round.

We agree on two things.

hombre, you wrote in your initial post: "Now if you could just write as you did at 10:36:09 pm in the Vancouver Sun, not likely to happen, is it, Norm?" I take your latest posting, in which you shift ground completely, to be an admission that you were talking out of your hat in the first one.

Corrected posting:

bud--you and I agree on two things, it seems. hombre, you wrote in your initial post: "Now if you could just write as you did at 10:36:09 pm in the Vancouver Sun, not likely to happen, is it, Norm?" I take your latest posting, in which you shift ground completely, to be an admission that you were talking out of your hat in the first one.

I have more than one hat norm, I talkied out of a lot of 'em, I always do...I am large, I contain multitudes, although none of their number is as shifty as you, I repeat, a moral stance is what lacks in your sun column: Canwest has but three decent columnists: Jack Knox, Jody Patterson and stephen Hume, Vaugn Palmer walks a line thinner than any Johnnny Cash ever did, and the remaining VCanwest coolumnists are dupes, shills, apologists, failed ameliorists, scoundrels...well you know the drill norm, and sweden sounds good...

Will-"Last week, the Liberals claimed they were merely doing what the New Democratic Party government did in 1996. “We’re as bad as the NDP” seems an uninspiring re-election slogan for the Campbell Liberals in 2005, but for the advantage of $2 million in taxpayer-financed campaign funding they may just risk it."

Jim-"They may as well have the debate to satisfy all you whiners out there. Actually the people they learned most of these tricks from are the NDP. It’s too bad the Liberals have sunk to the level of the NDP."

If you're going to hang around making stupid predictable remarks,READ THE BLOODY ARTICLES ALL THE WAY THROUGH MORON!!!

You know what really pees me off? 24/7 These clowns complain about taxes, Same Sex Marriage,
"Not going and getting our ass' killed in Iraq"and on and on and on...but THE LEFT are the "whiners"!!
Listen genius:you wanna complain about your taxes?Well Campbell and his gang of slimebags are planning on spending them to get re-elected!
Never mind about the NDP.This is "The New Era" No wait-its "The Golden Decade" now.Get bent pal.