RtbWa, In short, CanWest media has tremendous power to decide who lives and dies in B.C.

Rob - I think we can add Narcissism to the list - You actually think the editorial staffs and CEOs of CanWest and Bell Globemedia in Winnipeg, and Toronto, respectivley really toiled over this story, worrying how it would impact their bottom lines and their exisitance in life to the point that they would go out of their way to supress and dabble with the Basi story - Get Real! - I'm not saying that the Basi issue isn't important, however I doubt very much that there was lack of coverage on this story from any of the local news outlets. Barbara's column is no more or less indicting than anything thing else I've seen. She's asking good questions - which I would like to know too. But hey, if you think this was a snow job that deserves more attention then check out the coverage this story got in the Toronto Star, the Winnipeg Free Press (very left leaning) or Sun Media - ALL of them gave Bertuzi more coverage - and have little mention the charges, despite the federal angle to the story. All the news outlets are part of it, right? However reading the posts - This is like Campbell's drunk driving issue - Some people were ticked off that CNN in the States didn't give 24 hour coverage on the story. And in the end there's more wishfull thinking than actual thoughtful debate. - I do agree with you on one point: I'm really not a big fan of the fact that the 2 dailies in Vancouver are owned by the same company - especially when it comes to national or international coverage However, unlike some of it's biggest critics - I actually READ them and find ample amounts of articles, editorials, columns that are critical to the Libs. But if they come out with the occasional positive story or op ed Canwest (or anyone) is all of a sudden in the Lib's "back pocket" (or visi versa - I lost track of the accusations). Accusations, that always happen, no matter who is running this province.

You can wait until the details are revealed in court but you will be waiting an awfull long time! A deal with several of the parties is already in the works which ensure that none of the sordid details see the light of day and the "guilty" parties never see the dankness of a jail cell.

CanWest news editors may not have decided to suppress the Basi, Virk, Basi & Co. story but neither did they decide to dig for the facts of such an important story. All the pieces lie there, in plain view, unexamined. And it would be in the public interest for them to do so. Many of us saw the TV news clip of a smiling David Basi (his happy lawyer's arm around him on the right) as he climbed the steps of the Victoria Court House ... and halfway up, Basi pausing, as he reached out to shake hands with a TV cameraman (who offered his LEFT hand). It was a picture we should not forget: of supreme coziness amongst the accused, the law, and the media. Basi, it seems, has nothing to fear unless the public decides otherwise. Perhaps -- as in Ukraine -- it's the public which needs to speak out. Why couldn't we make a real difference by each taking one positive step to investigate, reveal, or denounce the question of organized crime in our electoral system .

In answer to RtBWA's question; the answer is yes. We do think that. In fact, I think that if the link from Basi to the highest level of the Federal Liberals, the highest level of the Provincial Liberals, is actually as well as apparently real, the reaction among the backroom boys would be panic. Not indifference at all. They would both ingnore and downplay details as though their black little hearts would break, sow misinformation, disinformation and confusion at every turn.

A lot of taxpayer's money has gone south lately. A big lot. If even a small part of the suspicions here prove true, then I have only one question for you to consider: How much jail time was served by the aides and functionaries of that other crooked neo-conservative icon, Richard Nixon?

Oh, yes, one other thing. As has been mentioned above many times, the Canwest boys found no difficulty assigning lots of twentyfour hour coverage to Clark's $7000 porch reno. Day after day after week of it, with art.

I sincerely doubt anyone associated will ever see the inside of a jail or prison in this matter.The courts will never incarerate a huge taxpayer ,that is how judges get paid u'know. Somehow i suspect that money changes or transfers from organized crime back from drug addicts payments to their dealers to those who happen to look the other way when doling out income assistance to drug addicts cash! Guess what , it gets spent on drugs, the higher ups collect vast sums every month,what do they do with it?Invest in B.C. probably ,maybe. Could one sell a bogus car say to a customer for cash and yes the bank will accept a large cash deposit but since it is for a cardealer will the feds investigate? As all deposits over a certain amount are reported to the feds. Now the dealer has laundered the cash when the car is not inexistence or has the dealer just created a huge contribution to a political party? Who has relatives in the car biz? Just musing out loud here noone in mind!

BC Mary, you are making many very good points, but if the Canwest editors don't push for an investigation into the mess they ARE suppressing the news, simple as that. Here's a test for you. Write a letter to the editor of the Vancouver Sun and note somewhere in it that Michael Campbell, the columnist, is the brother of premier Gordon Campbell. You might get away with calling Mikey something way down the food chain, but the Vancouver Sun is not going to acknowledge that it gives lots of free space to the brother of the premier, even if he writes, talks and looks like a near-clone of the premier. That cameraman on the legislature steps, didn't I see him out in front of Glen Clark's home a few years ago?

Why would CEO's back in Toronto have to do anything? They already have "their" people running the papers here. That's why they hired them, they trust them.

Since you read the Sun RtBWA, please tell me what anti-Liberal crusades the Sun has gone on that compare to the anti-Ferries, anti-Clark's deck, Mathew Vaudreuil, Bingogate, mills in Prince Rupert etc.

Reply to RtBWA’s comments. It’s rather odd that you would suggest that the comments written in this thread are the result of individuals being “whipped up in a frenzy” and “salivating over the perceived demise of the BC Libs”. It’s more like pure deductive reasoning on the part of people who obviously have their eyes and ears open to the corruption that’s been ongoing since the Liberals gained power. Rather, I would suggest your own words reveal what you would fain heap upon the others. It’s obvious that people with common sense would like to get rid of Campbell and his psuedo-liberals. They’ve done nothing but rip off, demean and persecute many of the poorest and challenged people in the province while at the same time eagerly sold off the assets of the province to foreign corporations. And in doing so you would refer to such traitors as our “benevolent BC legislature”? Benevolent to whom I might ask? As for your assumption that CanWest isn’t concerned about what its papers publish out west I fear your understanding of globalization and how it works is lacking in depth. As for your one question: “For all this sanctimonious crap I'm reading in these posts - Can the opposition (if elected) guarantee that they will be scandal free?” I would reply that the criticisms of Campbell and his subordinates is not “sanctimonious crap” at all but just plain talk and queries that any reasonably aware citizen ought to, and should, be able to voice. As for expecting any guarantee that another party would be scandal free I think that’s rather naive on your part to even pose the question. Politics doesn’t come with guarantees. The USA is a good example where they thought their Constitution and Bill of Rights would prevent (guarantee) scenarios such as we’re witnessing today from ever arising. Like Twighead to the south of us our little dictator Gordon Campbell is but another living example of the fact that no guarantees exist beyond that of an informed and vigilant and activist electorate. That’s why we need to seriously question the negative impact that vested globalizing instruments such as Asper’s media corporation are having on our lives and our sovereignty.

"I think organized crime was trying to find out what I know about their activities within the Liberal Party of Canada," said B.C. lawyer, Bruce Torrie, after his home was burgled. He, a former advisor to the Liberal Party, believes that there are two crime rings fighting for control within the LIberal Party of Canada, and that several prominent politicians and party functionaries are "patsies or proxies for organized crime." Information: http://www.brucetorrie.ca Bruce Torrie, 604. 685 0222 RCMP, 250 474. 2264 (file no. 20041551)

Some good points by several posters above re how tightly the Premier's Office controls the major files at other ministries, with the help of Martyn Brown, Ken Dobell et al... For example, the fuse that ultimately led to the Doug Walls scandal and Hogg's resignation was lit in a private meeting between Walls and Dobell in July 2001, following which Walls reported that the Premier's Office had blessed his restructuring plan for Hogg's Ministry. Walls, a bankrupt car dealer who was already in deep trouble over his efforts to sell the Ministry a secure data network, promised to deliver community support for 20% budget cuts in exchange for control of the Ministry's $700 million community living portfolio. This was months before the public Core Services Review in which the restructuring process was supposedly born. Walls later drafted Hogg's ideas on restructuring for him. Campbell headed the Core Review panel that handpicked Walls and his plan and dimissed hundreds of others. Walls' appointment as de facto CEO in the restructuring process was approved by Cabinet; he had the role of briefing the Liberal caucus on the process. From the start, people within and outside Hogg's Ministry for Children and Families complained that the Premier's Office was calling the shots in restructuring. Complaints to Cabinet members and mainstream media about Walls' conflicts of interest in his work for the Ministry and public records about alleged fraud in his private bankruptcy were ignored until rookie freelance reporter Sean Holman finally stepped in. And the Times Colonist then sat on Holman's story for a month until the RCMP laid fraud charges in the bankruptcy and it was clear that this was all coming out, one way or another. The final chapter involves the Premier ordering an audit that explicitly ignored the key questions, efforts to block FOI requests and Cabinet agreeing to pay Hogg's Deputy Minister over $200,000 to go away and keep quiet about it all... Just as Barbara McLintock notes in the BC Rail story, Premier Campbell remains committed to "holding the course" on Walls' restructuring plan, despite mounting evidence that it was corrupt to start with, that it can deliver virtually none of the benefits that Walls promised and that it will ultimately cost hundreds of millions to implement. To change course is to admit failure and politically, that's not an option. Ho hum!

In response to Arthur's post - The legislature is benevolant to many on the left especially when they can try to score political points. It's a different story when the tables are turned. Anyway, you're doing a great job illustrating my point when you refer to Campbell as a dictator. I think some people could stand to live in a different province for a while to get understand how much of a circus we choose to make the political environment is here in BC. (although it can be fun to debate these issues). Why exactly do people place so much signifigance on the impact of the provincial Liberals when the gold at the end of Basi's rainbow was in Ottawa? As for CanWest, et al supressing the story - considering they do not have any more access to information pertaining to this case than anyone else (think about it - they retain the same lawyer that the CBC uses to try to release the warrants). In addition, if the evidence is not leading up to the provincial politicians - only to a few aids as explained many times over by the police - then there's nothing there. I guess it's fun to speculate (and just for the record - If I were to speculate - I would think the handshake on the other end is attached to a federal Liberal worker as opposed to a provincial one) Again, reading these posts one would think the NDP always ran and would run a clean and compotent administration. Which is arguable. The problem is, is that people put so much venom against the BC Liberals - they're raising impossibly high expectations on the NDP which will only polarize this place more. I also beleive you're fooling yourself by using this high road argument regurgitated from the likes of Linda McQuag and Naomi Klein and tying it to this issue (there's that big ass paint brush I was talking about) to globalization. I understand globalization enough to know that this case would have happened regardless. Anyway - I don't have a problem with people not wanting to vote for Campbell - however, I believe when the NDP truly becomes that re-energized party that Carol James yaps about

....(I hit the submit button too soon)... anyway - I beleive when the NDP truly becomes that revised party that Carol James yaps about , there will be no alternative to the BC Liberals.

Are you not paying attention? He works here, chosen by the premier or the premier's man, he acquired $800,000 worth of real estate on a $60,000 salary in a year or a little more. His boss just resigned in very odd circumstances less than a week before the charges were laid, and went immediately to a job he's unqualified to do for a large campaign contributor.

You say what you believe, but you don't answer any of the large and very suggestive questions asked here. Why not? You seem articulate. Answer some if you can.

As to dictator, Campbell contemptuously refused to fund an official opposition throwing out centuries of parliamentary experience and honour. He gutted the Auditor General, so no oversight. He passed laws in the dark of night that bring shame to us all.

As to benevolent, they have acted to the harm of British Columbians repeatedly.For example, the benevolent legislature moved seniors forcibly against their will and their families wishes, sometimes at night to avoid those very families opposition, after firing the long time caregivers who protested that the stress of the total change forced on the seniors would probably kill some. Those same caregivers reported later that up to 25% had in fact died within four months.

The benevolent legislature sent a book sized reassement form to mentally and physically challenged clients who live in utter poverty on the very edge of homelessness. The form threatened to cut them off and cast them into the hell they fear most in life; the streets of East Vancouver. Reportedly at least six died by their own hands in fear and despair at the threat, but no fraud was uncovered. I keep thinking the words 'reckless disregard for life' but that can't be right because it refers to a form of manslaughter, and these guys are benevolent.

The benevolent leg. fired tens of thousands of women from equitable jobs and handed those jobs to hand picked foriegn companies, reported to be 'contributors', who get to keep nearly half of the millions of dollars paid for those services for themselves.

Add the whole Ministry of Children & Family Development to the list. *Cuts of $171 million to the Ministry legislated to protect children & youth & provide support services to vulnerable families. ] * With the 3rd Minister in as many years. * Forcing social service agencies to fight for crumbs through contracts tendered, then failing to deliver what was promised. * Social service agencies are in a disarray, with decades old, effective programs cut, with nothing to replace them. *Front line workers are being destroyed at a rapid pace & they don't grow on trees. *Privatization/contracting out of SW jobs is already underway, to people who make less, who are not trained, and not delegated under legislation. *The Walls scandal has already been spoken about. *Jane Morley, QC, was contracted by the Liberals to do the MCFD core review, in which she recommended the Children's Commission & the Child & Youth Advocate's office be axed. Then she was appointed the Child & Youth Officer. Whose role is not to directly advocate for children & youth. Ans she says she is independent of government, but she is not. FYI - the Children's Commission investigated child & youth death's in the Province. Now this is done by the BC Coroner's Service. There are stats that appear to report that there has been an increase in deaths of children under age 2 since 2000. But since no annual reports have been released since 2000, it isn't possible to find out why the increase. Or to look at how many kids families had involvement with MCFD. *Child abuse & neglect have been rendered more invisible by the very institution entrusted & legislated to protect. Arguably, governments of all stripes do fail to protect in some way, but not in the diabolical, comprehensive & sadistic way this government has. *Children are dying in this province and few stories are making it into the media. This government spoke about openness and account- ability. Well where is it for the children, youth & vulnerable families of this province? I like to believe that the majority of citizens of BC want a fair & just society for all of our citizens. How do we get people to get more involved politically? Even if it is just to vote these corrupt parasites out, that would be good enough. Any ideas?

Ideas? Ideas are easy and cheap.

-Rent a billboard, Put up a picture of such a child, with a short history. Select her well.

-Do the same with a BC senior who lives in poverty, be careful not to demean her or show her in an undignified light.

-Design a one sheet folded pamphlet, pay special attention to truth in every respect, make several versions. Print up 750,000 of them on distinctive coloured paper. Distribute them in every part of BC.

-Start an action in the BC Supreme Court. Claim that fixed election dates are unparliamentary, unconstitutional, and intentionally undermine the basic structure of Democracy. Get an injunction preventing the Liberals from governing until the decision is made.

Find out the name and details of somebody who died as a direct result of BC Liberal actions. Start a private prosecution of the minister in charge at the time for manslaughter.

-Create large puppets. Make them look like people we don't see in the news enough, you know their names. Do puppet shows in the parks, malls and schools which make people laugh.

-Make up a really catchy song that names names and mentions details. Get it on the radio.

-Start a petition demanding an immediate election call. Remember the petition that finished off Stockwell Day? The one that demanded he change his name to Doris? Do that.

-Hire a skywriter. You know those planes that write words in smoke really big in the sky. The next clear Saturday, write true things above Stanley Park.

-Start a contest. Offer a really good prize for the best limerick about political corruption or something in BC. Publish all the best ones, none of the mean ones.

-Make up a bunch of roof-rack signs like pizza delivery guys put on their cars. Change the content frequently. Make them rhyme like Burma-Shave signs. (look it up, they're a bit historical, but effective communication.) Get all your friends to put them on their cars.

-Tell people what you know, what you feel. Just for a while forget the usual Canadian reserve about discussing politics, and tell your truth out loud where people can hear.

The Eastern media can't serve B.C.'s best interests in exposing organized crime operating here. The Eastern media is blind and deaf to Western issues. I know. I've tried, continuously, for the past year. Only Ottawa's Hill Times (the Parliamentarians newspaper) alerted itself to this B.C. crisis and promised to do a story for the 1-year anniversary of the RCMP raids. They didn't. In all innocence, the Eastern media seems truly incapable of recognizing either daffodils in February or the magnitude of this B.C. crisis until it lands on the Prime Minister's doorstep (and if he's not busy that day). I think their mockery of Crazy B.C. is their clumsy way of covering up their own shortcomings. So the task of opening up the story of organized crime at all levels of B.C. life is a story which the concerned public will have to reveal.

Bailey I was paying attention, unlike you - You're shocked that a young, successfull Indo-Canadian male that is very close to his family has an 800K house?!!?? - People should stop gauging other people by the way they conduct their financial affairs. Different communities and cultures handle their money differently than what the "so called" ordinary Canadian is used to. Stop assuming that everyone started out with nothing. Again, I guess I'm not being clear - but on the upside you're making my point - I'm NOT saying the Liberals are benevolant - I'm saying that the Liberal's opposition would like to think that what happens in Victoria is the most important thing in the world - which is different from reality that 27 million other Canadians and a billion people in China COULDN'T CARE LESS about the raids on the legislature!! - And for that matter - YOUR complaints about restructuring that the BC Liberals had to do - why should they?? Every province already had to go through restructuring, cut backs, etc. - Most of the other provicnes did that in the mid-nineties, when the BC NDP governement at that time decidied to spend it's way out of the reduced transfer payments, raise taxes thus chasing out investment. Then a year or so later the world was going through the biggest economic expansion in history - we lagged behind (don't give me the Asian flu BS, I'll quickly point you to Chile which is a Pac Rim country - heavilly reliant on the Asian economy that pulled itself out of the third world during the so called Asian Flu - It's also funny that Washington, Oregon, Alaska, California were all thriving - and we weren't). The NDP clinged to power for as long as they can - why didn't they call an election when Clark resigned???? Anyway, as a result people tired with being taxed to death and seeing jobs and investment go away awarded the NDP with an embarasing wash out in that election. Ironically, the first thing the person you refer to as a dictator did was set fixed election dates - thus making Campbell one of the few politicians under the rules of the British Parlementry System to proactivley take away the right for a ruling goverment to set an election date only when it suits them. I don't think you actually get how much power Campbell gave up by doing that. As I mentioned before it's okay by me if you don't vote for the BC Libs - However, I'm still at a loss as to who we should vote for. Unless you advocate anarchy, I really don't see how the NDP can run this place - their hands were just as dirty as you claim the current governments hands are.

RtBWA, perhaps before you dump all over Bailey et/al for being fixated on the liberal government in Victoria, you might read the mission statement behind Tyee. It isn't particularly to bring you issues that would be of interest to China's billion plus or any of the other billions of non British Columbians around the world. That's why we have the Globe&Mail and CBC. The Tyee covers primarily BC news and issues and details of suspected criminal activities in the offices of B.C. LIBERAL CABINET MINISTERS in the BC legislature are of interest to quite a few British Columbians as well as quite a few non British Columbians who might otherwise want to invest or live here. That there are known ties among those arrested to the federal Liberal Party, that two provincial cabinet ministers who have been directly linked to aspects of this sordid mess have resigned and that the so-called paper of record in BC the Vancouver Sun, would run puff pieces on those resignations without once raising a question is of major concern to many of us in BC. Please drop the history lessons, we're dealing with a whole new can of worms here and if you can't see that then you are wilfullyly blind.

Actually RtBWA, Carole James has already stated that if elected, she has people she can call on for "help" - former premiers (just think Clarke, Harcourt, The 'Zalm) and all of her other buddies like Heyman and Sinclair. Plus she has some hi-quality people like Harry Lali and Adrian Dix to draw from. Not to mention ultra-guru David Schreck, I am still amazed that Collins was snatched up to be an airline CEO when a true "guru" like Schreck was available. It all just makes you want to run out and vote NDP doesn’t it.

Thanks allan. To RtWBA, may I call you Mr.A? RtWBA is awkward to type, and I don't know what it means. Mr.A, it's clear that you had a different view of the 'restructuring' of the nineties than I did. From my point of view it looked like the biggest criminal coup in history. The doctrine of 'trickle-down Reganomics', or voodoo economics as the leading economists of the day referred to it, saw around a half trillion US dollars transferred from savings and loans, from tax treasuries, from pension funds, from poor and working folks take home envelopes into the offshore accounts of people with political connections, who made large political contributions through the eighties. Half a trillion dollars, that would be around 500 new billionaires. Coincidentally about the same number reported in financial magazines.

It was a zero-sum game, which means nothing was created, only 'restructured'. Additionally the commons, the air, water, hospitals, public electrical systems, etc. were given to these same crooks, excuse me companies so that Coca Cola now owns the Ganges and are drying out farms that sustained life for millenia and it's a crime to drink the rainwater running off your roof in South America without paying money to some company. The rain there was restructured from God's gift to the world into property of politically corrupt neocons.

You (excuse me sir, I must borrow your word) yap about all this as though you are offended, but I note you still avoid answering any of the specific questions posed in this thread. Please answer this one. It might clear up the source of our differing viewpoints. I work with the people who are most challenged in BC, I did in the nineties too. How do you fill your days and earn your daily bread, sir?

Just as a postscript, I mention that the Queen of all this voodoo in the nineties, Margaret Thatcher, is quoted as saying there's no such thing as society. If she said that to a psychiatrist, it could well be considered definitive for a diagonsis of sociopathy, a disorder marked by total egoism and complete lack of empathy or understanding of others, coupled with a skill at mimicing their normal behaviours to manipulate them for your own gain.

RtBWA writes: “However, I'm still at a loss as to who we should vote for. Unless you advocate anarchy, I really don't see how the NDP can run this place - their hands were just as dirty as you claim the current governments hands are.” RtBWA you may have touched upon a good point here with respect to “anarchy”. The mainstream media’s generally accepted interpretation of Anarchy has always been one that misrepresented the true meaning of that much-maligned word i.e. that it means total, uncontrolled chaos and confusion and disorder when in fact that is what we appear to have already! Anarchy, to my way of understanding, doesn’t mean out of control but out of “their” control and into the hands of the people themselves. So if we were to move to an Anarchist model and get away from the concept of a political “party” system which tends always to divide the electorate into polarized factions then that might be in fact a major step in the direction of decentralization of government and improved social and economic organization. As for your conundrum with respect to who in fact to vote for in this next election you’re definitely not alone. There are numerous voters who are just plain tired and rather revolted by the idea of always having to choose between one of a select few options. Already I’m meeting individuals who are telling me that they just can’t vote in the upcoming election for that reason alone. The one glimmer of hope though that I see with the NDP routing the Capitalist Libcons is that their roots (frayed and whithered as they may be at the present) are still embedded in the soils of socialism and their botton-line is the good of the people as a whole rather than the Capitalist credo of the buck as the ultimate goal and at whatever cost to the people.

Bailey, 12/30/2004 12:47:31 PM, writes: To RtWBA, may I call you Mr.A? I PROTEST! Let whomever they are give you a handle without plagiarizing my own. :-) BTW thanks Bailey for those great ideas for spreading the word about the Libcons.

Bailey. Don't stop at the real estate. $1000 suits, expensive cars, big boys toys, etc. Heck the guy used to take his kid to preschool and have him spit up on an Armani. There is a good reason why Basi was smiling at his court hearing. Only the small time crooks ever get time. The sophisticated criminals know that the ticket is to get involved in the community. They donate money to politicians, sit on a few charity boards and make buddies in the business community. Insurance they call it.

RtBWA: Your assertion that the rest of Canada and China is not in the least interested in what is happening in the BC legislature may be true but your implication that those of us posting here are making "much ado about nothing" is completely fallacious. This article is asking questions about corruption at the highest levels of both our provincial and federal governments, about a justice system that appears compromised, about the infiltration of organized crime, and about the loss of our democratic rights. The comments here express a deep concern for the threatened sovereignty of our province and our country because of the tampering with and the corruption of those very rights.

You've got the wrong Shakespearean play, RtBWA. Much Ado About Nothing... that was Glen Clark's deck. No, this is closer to the devious betrayals in King Lear and Macbeth and some of the other great tragedies. In fact, tragic is a good word for what is transpiring of late in our once fair province of BC.

(Responding to Bailey) you can call me Mr. R, if it's easier (may as well since I guess I'm the designated 'R'ighty posting here). Plus, Arthur has dibs on Mr. A. I'm an accountant by trade - When the KD days were over, I have held several accounting and finance positions for both public and private sectors including a stint for a local of a national public sector union. I'm currently running a small accounting firm with my partner - I mostly deal with small and medium sized businesses However, we also help individuals and families - through various agencies I am - by helping them with budgeting, planning, income tax prep and going to bat for them against creditors. I love politics, and I have participated in several municipal and provincial elections here in BC and in Manitoba (my native province) - I was actually a died in the wool lefty (coming from a very heavy union family) until I realized (paraphrasing Bill Mahr) that if you give a lefty a million bucks - they end up being the same shmuck as the millionares they despise.

Anyway to the subject at hand (responding to Allan, Lynn) - I'm quite aware of the Tyee's mission statement and I am well aware among who I'm posting to - I enjoyed the article as I am beginning to really enjoy this publication. I do think that the story is intriguing and important. However, I have enough faith in society to understand that if there really was a profound effect on each and everyone of us, we wouldn't be speculating on any of this issue - we would KNOW ALREADY and hold those people to account by now - but as it stands that's not happening - Besides what exactly do you expect to be at the other end of this story? (my guess is, a couple of Omnitrax influenced Federal Lib flunkies - and if that is the case, like other federal Liberal scandals accountability should rule the day and the rules of contol of influence, etc should be tightened up) - There's nothing that's been brought up or any result - I doubt that anything would be brought up nor would this affect my or anyones ability to provide food on their table. All there is, is a few political Aides and a raid of their OWN files from the Ledg. That's it - that's all. The rest, I'm thinking, is wishfull thinking by some of you - However, keep in mind that I (along with many people that I know) didn't vote for the Liberals because of Glen Clarks deck(s). (or fast ferries, or Carier Lumber, or fudget budget, or Skeena Celulose, or............)

So Organized Crime doesn't affect the B.C. economy? $6 billion in cash can disappear each year without troubling anybody? Wow. Talk about whistling in the dark ...

Mr.R then. Thanks for answering my question. I think the difference between looking at the books and tallying the numbers as they pass through the system, and looking at the actual people to whom the numbers no longer apply may explain our differences in outlook.

If one is on the receiving end of this voodoo it must seem benevolent indeed, but the outrage expressed here is not what you seem to think it is.

In the usual way of things, political corruption is fairly benign. A matter of jobs for the boys. The things in society which need doing by government are done by different people depending on what party won. Business as usual in other words, but the necessary work does get done.

This latest wrinkle is quite different. Money is taken by truckloads and little or no value returned. Public interests are just handed out, no strings attached. They came very close to giving our newest highway to Jimmy Pattison apparently, with the right to tax motorists forever for using our own road. This is not business as usual.

Then money must be borrowed to do the work which still must be done, which accounts for the large recession which typically accompanies each bout of trickle-downitis, and the huge increase in debt.

All without creating a thing that might generate income or prosperity for our families. The term organized crime barely covers it. We are not only outraged, we're terrified for our children and their children and the poverty they will have to endure to pay this theft off.

You're right if you give a billion dollars to some car dealer, he will become the same kind of schmuck everyone would despise, but if you give a billion dollars to a hundred thousand poor families, in services and help, then you get something else entirely.

It's OUR money. Not theirs. They have to spend it how we told them to, or it's just crooked.

(responding to Lynn) I'm not saying this is much ado about nothing - I agree this is something important and it should be addressed. However, this is my core argument: Is the speculation and Innuendo posted here come from trying to get to the bottom of this case or is it wishful thinking on the part of people who would never vote for the BC Libs first place? - If it is wishful thinking, fair enough! But I really don't think that certain people in NDP has or will ever be any less corruptable or inept. It's one thing to put all their eggs in one basket on the follies of the BC Libs - but what do the alternatives have to offer beyond simply telling people what they want to hear? (and not delivering - I'm affraid, listening to Carol James, this is exactly what is happening). As I posted before, it wasn't the Glen Clark scandal that got me to decide to vote for the Liberals - I decided to vote for them well before his house was raided. That decision happened when the company I was working for at the time pulled up stakes and moved to a more business friendly province.

Mr. R. How do you know, to quote you, "all there is, is a few political aides and a raid of their own files from the Ledg. That's it - that's all." How are you so certain? What is your evidence to validate that statement? Again, we see the attempt to downplay the significance of the questions MacLintock is asking, the attempt to yawn this scandal away. Very similar response to that of the media in this province, the same diversionary tactics, that pleasant little believebc mantra that all is well in BC. Don't worry, be happy. Think pleasant thoughts and whatever you do, do not follow the money trail.

Didn't Watergate start from the discovery of just a few plumbers?

What you don't get Mr. R. is that we are saying this IS having a profound effect on this province. Bug-eyed with disbelief gives a prime example above.

Actually Bailey, For most accountants it always go beyond just looking at the numbers zip by the system. It's a nice stereotype, but it's false. I do look at the actual people. Many of the clients outside of the volunteer work that I've done - are electrical contractors, painters, plumbers, freelance counsellors, guitar teachers - to companies that employ 100 or so people. I definately see people who have their life savings wiped out or wind up with a suffocating debt load due to bad cards they were dealt in life (like abusive situations, addictions, etc.) I also see people bad financial desicions (I'm also guity of that too). But I fundimentally believe that simply blaming governent policies based on purely idiological grounds is not the key to solving any of these problems. Therefore I have become a huge believer in personal responsibility. Again you seem to be using speculation with an anti-elitism slant as opposed to common sense to make your case - Using the proposed privatization of the Coq. for example, right away you mention Jimmy Patison (I think the actual front running bid was the Teamsters Union) Anyway, let's say that Jimmy takes it over - do you really think he's going to get any return on his investment by driving business out by raising toll prices - (remember there are three other ways to Vancouver from Kamloops) NO! - people would stop using the road. But anyway it doesn't matter - the government backed down due to the outcry. Your right, it is our money but you should know your enemy better - (I really don't think the government gave Jimmy one cent - He made his billions all by himself, through hard work, good financial decisions and savy. And he contributes like giving VGH $50 million). In terms of distributing billions - It's nice thinking of it - but you've got to put some thought into generating it too - you can't do that by poo pooing on the people that promote that.

Also good examples from Bailey. I didn't see your posting, Bailey, when I wrote my comment.

Mr. R: To be perfectly honest, I think this issue is ironically above party politics. I would venture to say that that most commenters here are outraged at how this province and it's people have been put at risk, at how this province has changed - the level of corruption now existing within our borders, at the selling off of our assets, at the complete arrogance of the present government. There is a feeling of loss that seems to be escaping you, but that I think is felt by many. This is not about party politics but about actions corrupted by greed and the outright betrayal of the people of this province.

Lynn - what basis - what HARD evidence do the rest of you have that implicates the provincial goverment? NONE! - there's a lot speculation and innuendo from people that would like to see the Libs fry in any case - but no HARD evidence against Gordon Campbell or his government. In addition, I agree we are impacted by organized crime - but what hard proof does any of us have that LINKS this to any elected MLA - again that's speculation (bred by a Vic constable talking out of his butt) exaserbated by wishfull thinking people who hate the current government. Also, I doubt very much that the press is surpressing anything - The SAME lawyer shared by the CBC AND their arch rival, CanWest. is working his butt off to get information contained in the warrants (of an active investigation). ALL the press has ALL the same access to ALL same information pertaining to this case (including the Tyee, I would think). And if the CBC or CanWest or The Tyee has more information than the other or found a smoking gun that DOES directly implicate any elected official. It's more likely to benefit them if the come out with the story than supress it. The revenue and rewards for coming out with that story far outweighs any contribution any media outlet made to the BC Libs. In other words there's enough determined Woodward and Bernstien wanabes in this province, that if what you are pontificating is true - then we probably would have know about it already and have taken action. Also if the BC Libs couldn't contain the Walls case from the press - how do you expect them to contain what many of you are saying with this case. I get it, Lynn and that's what I'm calling some people on.

I agree with Lynn Mr R, this issue is above party politics. I'm an NDP voter but I'd be mad as hell if this was an NDP administration. Regardless of who's in power, alleged corruption has to be followed up. Even the hint of it under the NDP was indeed followed up, but its not happening here. If I saw the Sun and CKNW et al hammering away on this like they did with Clark I'd be happy.

By the way I disagree with your history of the 90's above. Somehow the economic engine of Canada, Ontario, ended up hiding a huge deficit built up under a PC government while at the same time making big cutbacks. Other provinces also didn't fare as well as you imply.

Frank - If Campbell's residences was named in a warrant - No doubt the press would be all over that one like flys to excrement. But the reality is, is that it was lowly aides of elected officials that got served and charged - it didn't go beyond that. Also, remember when Campbell was arrested for drunk driving - It was CanWest reporters (to the amazement of the eastern based reporters in attendance of the news conference) that got Campbell to actually say that drunk driving is a "criminal offence" thus giving ammunition to his opposition - So they are just as determined to find a smoking gun here too - but nothing is being found! You can say what you want about Ontario, but it's only after the fact (by the way, I'm not the biggest Harris fan myself). They still didn't create their own recession, or have head offices and other investment move out or had a higher unemployment rate than Manitoba during that time - BC did!

I don't think you do get it, Mr. R. Many of us don't believe there is an investigative press, not in the mainstream media. As for the Walls case, I think it was quite brilliantly contained and orchestrated but investigated...hardly. C'mon, we live in a province where news directors can't even see that hiring the brother of the premier to be the station's main commentator on financial affairs is not a conflict of interest. A province where a newsanchorman is simultaneously a radio talk show host (comparisons to Ted Knight of Mary Tyler Moore fame comes to mind)... where the brother of the premier turns up once again, this time hosting a so-called "open talk" radio show supposedly discussing the current political scene with no bias, of course. Talk about compromise and lack of scruples... and then there's those believebc, achievebc, campaigns all aided and abetted by the media...is it news or advertising? Hard to tell which is which these days. This is a province pretty well kept in the dark by those who are all too willing to blow out the few candles that could finally shed a little light.

Mr. R. Isn't that what lowly aides of elected officials are for? To assume all blame. Some paid well for this. That's why (your words) they are so "lowly".

Not only did businesses move out of BC but they moved out of every other province in the WEST and Maritimes to Ontario and Quebec. Did the NDP have that much power in BC that is scared these businesses out of the other Western provinces as well? Warehousing was consolidated because of that nasty little federal capital tax. (1 1/2%) (Which I believe some of the provinces also decided to levy as well.) VW moved ALL their parts warehousing back east because it was now cheaper to ship parts by air than maintain the overhead in each province. Sears, Safeway and Finning moved their warehousing to Alberta for the same reason plus the fact that that province sweetened the pot with land and tax breaks that NO OTHER province could ever hope to match. I would move my business as well but to blame the NDP for a problem created by Ottawa is just paranoid in the extreme. Maybe the accountant out there can 'educate' us with expert knowledge that the rest of us novices can only get from 'da press.'

Your right Burgess, the NDP did chase a fair amount of people and business to Alberta. It was more than simply the Federal Capital Tax. Remember Clarke’s first budget? It added an extra $ 750 million in taxes. His second budget added another $800 Million. For a family of two earning $80K they paid over $ 1,200 more tax in BC over Alberta. Even MacPhail knew that the tax and spend plan was out of control and was destroying BC. When she became finance minister she set out to provide tax relief in her first budget, problem was the NDP government was so broke by then she could only return $ 52 million to the taxpayers. A far cry from what Clarke had taken. Let’s not also forget the corporate capital tax, the water tax (both helped to destroy the mining industry) increased Provincial sales tax that also was applied to more items and services. School taxes were raised, and a nice new surtax on people who bought expensive homes and vehicles. Did I mention the NDP also raised healthcare premiums as well. Despite the one and half billion in new tax revenue that was sucked out of the economy, Provincial debt still grew out of control and doubled in the Province. If you look at our overall BC debt today, the entire amount, the NDP basically added almost half in just two terms ! The NDP tried to hide this with “financing authorities” buried within crown corporations, plus they even shitcanned our provincial debt repayment plan when it became clear they could not meet the payments. Remember all of those “special warrants” they had to use to grab more money when they continually ran out? The NDP might hope that the voters have a short memory and try to ensure that Basi and Virk can become enough of a scandal to help the party cause, but at the end of the day many in BC still are not buying.

Frank, 12/30/2004 10:18:35 PM, writes: "I'm an NDP voter but I'd be mad as hell if this was an NDP administration. Regardless of who's in power, alleged corruption has to be followed up. Even the hint of it under the NDP was indeed followed up, but its not happening here."....................I'm afraid this just isn't the case Frank. I can recall a specific instance where public allegations of serious corruption were made regarding a certain NDP Cabinet Minister and rather than the mainstream media investigating said allegations the NDP in concert with said media suppressed the allegations and in turn supported a SLAPP suit to prevent any further debate on the issue.

Mr. R, 12/30/2004 5:57:54 PM, writes: “...However, keep in mind that I (along with many people that I know) didn't vote for the Liberals because of Glen Clarks deck(s). (or fast ferries, or Carier Lumber, or fudget budget, or Skeena Celulose, or............)” ..............Mr. R. Good of you to allow me the use of “A”. With respect to one of your list above of supposed NDP discretions I would like to point out to you and the NDP that the Skeena Cellulose issue is one that finds BOTH parties involved in alleged criminal dealings. This issue is presently being challenged in the courts and if and when these events do come to light it will be clear that the NDP and the Liberals have been complicit in their attempts at ripping off the native people of this province for their resources, their lands and their historic entitlement.

Maybe I see part of our problem, Mr.R. You repeatedly refer to all the questions asked above in this thread as speculation and innuendo, as though they don't meet some standard of verity. These posters here are British Columbians from all walks talking very specifically about things they've seen and heard themselves. Like anyone, they might be right or they might be wrong, but many of them seem quite well informed.

So tell me, sir, what standard would we have to meet to qualify to have this conversation? How would a fact or an observation be elevated above speculation?

I only hope that the voters of BC look very carefully at the last 3.5 years, and consider the huge sellout that has taken place. I also hope that the truth comes out regarding the raids in the legislature, that as always, is the only thing that counts.

This could be the best tyee thread yet. Excellent comments, and delicious squirming from various rightwing stooges who would applaud gordon campbell if he was caught child molesting at high noon at broadway and granville. Also excellent and apt remarks about the growing corruption of the bc judiciary. I still find it SIMPLY INCREDIBLE that H.A.D. Oliver found no conflict in the PREMIER'S INLAW MILKING THE MINISTRY OF CHILDREN AND FAMILIES LIKE A PERSONAL CASH COW. And then gordon liar claimed to barely know him...imagine if glen clark had used this pathetic defense with pilinaros (sp?)...Imagine the canwest response if the ndp had displayed even a FRACTION of the unending graft, corruption, and JUDICIAL STONE WALLING that the bc backstabbers have shown ever since elected...I still maintain that class action lawsuits are the only way to end the problem of rightwing PIMPING in media, government and the judiciary forever... REFORM GOVERNMENTS WITH JUDICIAL REFORM AND GUARANTEED CITIZEN PROTECTION FROM RIGHTWING LOOTERS OF THE COMMON GOOD AND OF SOCIAL PROGRESS WITH HARSH PUNISHMENT, AND THEN LEGALLY GO AFTER THE WTO AND "FREETRADE" AGREEMENTS.

The ndp should definitely include in their campaign literature as much about about BC Rail as possible, including the fact that the actual sale price, as someone pointed out so well above was more like only 250 million, after giveaways and backroom deals, a pathetic price, and a pathetic outcome by this collection of rubber stamp pimps for gordon liar's friends and owners....I would also still like an invetigation as to whether bc liberal mlas were subjected to signing the equivalent of loyalty oaths by martyn brown, although the explanation for their absolute betrayal of 90% of their constituents may be simply their total collective lack of both moral character and basic human decency...

Bailey - To answer your question - I'm not the one raising the bar in this conversation. I'm mearly asking a question as to the roll partisan politics plays in this case. What exactly does this particular case have to do with BC Liberal policies on, let's say Healthcare or Education? Although I disagree with your stance against the BC Libs - I do understand why you don't like their policies - as I hope you understand why I'm not a big fan of the past and present BC NDP policies. However, do you really think that this case will have an impact on our daily lives? If so, in what way? Look, I personally think we're really looking at a few bad apples in the bunch (the NDP has theirs too) - tempted by plum federal jobs and using any influence they had (which was mostly perceived) and they got caught during the act - Remember, Basi(s) and Virk were just bit players in wide spread police investigation - they just happen to have day jobs in politics. I also think that the Federal Liberals have more to answer for this case than the provincial party of the same name. Seeing how the carot at the end of Basi and Virks stick was Federal, and not provincial. Anyway, at the end of the day I'm debating if you and some other posters are really thinking that this is a catalyst to drive out the BC Liberals.

Arthur - I actually didn't know about the case you're referring too - so I won't dispute that, but again, I go back to what I say that nobody has clean hands. As for my beef against the NDP with Skeena; this goes beyond the half billion tax payer dollars spent to save 300 + jobs - If you recall when the deal took place NDP finance ministry had to work out a deal with a certain bank to change stock issues from secure to insecure to try to get 10 cents on the dollar that Skeena owed their suppliers (far less than what they would have gotten if Skeena just went bankrupt) - Suppliers included independant truck drivers, sub-contractors, etc. - At the end, when that happened they negativly impacted 20,000 BC citizens in the process - many of those were forced to close their business. So essentially we only heard about trying to save the jobs of Prince Rupert's biggest employer - but at the cost of the rest of the people living in the area.

Mr R. says " ... the Federal Liberals have more to answer for this case than the provincial party of the same name. Seeing how the carot at the end of Basi and Virks stick was Federal, and not provincial." Yes, Basi, Virk, & Basi aren't the end of this story -- they are the beginning. So don't let's say their trials aren't valuable; their trials can tell us about the connections which -- surely it's abundantly obvious -- go right up into the Prime Minister's Office. It's disturbing to hear a British Columbian say that unless you and I can prove malfeasance right here and now, it's case closed. Boyo, this case hasn't even started to open. And it won't fully open, either, unless we keep asking the questions.

There's a thing from above that Mr.R said that's been niggling at me a bit. On 12/30 you said it's ironic that Campbell took away the right of ruling governments to set elections only when it suits them by fixing the election date. That's not really what happened, sir.

By fixing the date he took away the power of the people, the opposition or coalitions to force an election on a ruling government before they want one.

Strong majority governments are rare in parliaments. The way elections come about are part and parcel of how parliaments work. These Liberals didn't give up some power. On the contrary, they once again stripped a power away from anyone who would object in the future to even criminal behaviour in the majority government.

They protected themselves by stripping Parliament of it's ability to heal itself, just like they stripped it of it's power to expose wrongdoing by gutting the Auditor General's office.

Bailey - The fixed election dates is a mear appendage to the parlementry rules regarding election and have nothing to do with non-confident votes - If enough MLAs want to break away and form a coalition, and if they out vote the party in power and force an election - that still can happen - Now, If that happens the 'fixed date' can be moved to accomodate a new election - then if that coalition gets a majority then the new 'fixed date' would be exactly 4 years from the forced election. The trick with the current governement is to try and convince 40 or so MLAs and their constituants, riding associations, etc. to form that coalition - good luck.

So you think that all that happened there was a change from a maximum 5 year mandate to a 4 year one? What do you mean 'break away'? The only reason this passed without causing a major revolt is because this government, with a mandate of barely half the votes, rules with an iron fist brooking no opposition. If a more normal situation were in place, one that required the leading party to consider the thoughts or needs of others, to rule co-operatively, you would see how this rule effects the function of the house.

You continue to speak in general terms, making it seem that everyone here is just sucking wind. Please pick a question from the multitude above and address it specifically.

Or you could add a thought of your own to the list we were building. Let me suggest one. As an accountant, tell us; how do you call a a budget balanced when several billion were added to the debt this year. When you borrowed that much, how does a fraction of that loan become a 'surplus'?

It's time to remember the Atkinson Principles. The Star (Toronto) is the biggest daily in Canada, and it has always been different, more liberal, in a traditional sense, and fairer than most to labour. It's the only newspaper in Canada that operates by a set of written principles -- the Atkinson Principles -- instructing editors and reporters to adhere to certain social values, even if profit sometimes gets compromised in the process. [s'Truth, your eyes did not deceive you!] Unthinkable in today's corporate world, the principles were enunciated in the 1940s by Joseph E. Atkinson, one of The Star's founders. He set them out as a mandate to be "pursued, advanced and vindicated" by all Star editors and reporters - then and in the future. The list includes: a strong, united and independent Canada; social justice; individual and civil liberties; community and civic engagement; the rights of workers and 'the necessary role' of government in society. "These guiding principles are important to a daily newspaper with proud, small-l liberal traditions," said The Star's retiring Ombudsman, Don Sellars. Great as they are, I haven't been able to raise any interest in an investigative Star journalist to look into the links between the B.C. Liberal Party and the possibility of organized crime affecting our electoral process right up to the Prime Minister's Office. Maybe if others also wrote to them about it? I don't know why the Toronto Star isn't available on all Canadian newsstands -- but you can subscribe to it on-line, wherever you are. Happy New Year!

For what it's worth -no doubt very little- there is a paul willcox column in the vancouver sun today, suggesting that gordon campbell had best do a much better job of explaining BC Rail scandals to his constituents, than his ministers have done. I haven't read it yet, as the full text is available only to subscribers. I expect very little however, as Paul Willcocks, has shown himself a past master of praising by faint damnation, of tut-tutting, where full blown OUTRAGE would be far more appropriate.

Canwest has COWARDLY DELETED nearly EVERY "SOUND-OFF" topic thread in all three online major papers, fearing both a medium they cannot control despite much attempts at censorship, as well as the continual repetition of negative truths about the bc liars and their mishandling of every single portfolio including the economy. The only real thread left with direct comment against gordon liar is at the canada.com. sound-off web page. I suggest that people react to this gross censorship and breach of canwest responsibility to their subscribers and the general public, as soon as possible, anonymously or otherwise. This is good news, in my view, however, in that it shows how scared canwest is running...

Bailey, your point about the liberals protecting themselves, not the public good, by use of the four year election rule, is extremely apt and well made. It deserves to be raised as often as possible, and is yet one more example of the half-bright bc "liberals" outsmarting themselves -again.

Ian Mulgrew, Vancouver Sun, wrote a story marking the 1-year anniversary of the RCMP raids on the B.C. Legislature. Some things he said: The real scandal of Victoria raid [is that] A year later and five months from an election, we still have no political accounting Ian Mulgrew Vancouver Sun Tuesday, December 28, 2004 A year after the RCMP made history by raiding the offices of the B.C. legislature, criminal charges are laid and I am still scratching my head. B.C. Associate Chief Justice Patrick Dohm, who authorized the search, has kept secret much of the evidence the Mounties relied on to obtain the unprecedented warrants -- for reasons only the future can justify. But for a year to pass and B.C. voters to face an election in five months without a political accounting for what happened here is a scandal. In many ways, this to me seems as manipulated a piece of legal and political legerdemain as the handling of the 1950s-era prosecution for corruption of Forest Minister Robert Sommers, the first cabinet minister in the Commonwealth jailed for a crime of office. Although Sommers was imprisoned for accepting bribes in exchange for awarding tree-farm licences, no one went down for paying him. Look what's happening here if you believe the prosecution -- two $60,000-a-year political flunkies and a relative are facing years in prison for being, at most, pawns in someone else's game .... The six-count indictment -- enumerating accusations of fraud, soliciting, accepting bribes, influence peddling and breach of trust against Bobby Virk and Dave Basi -- says they "recklessly put at risk the bidding process for BC Rail" by leaking cabinet confidences and confidential documents. That has always been the most interesting aspect of this case -- the ties to the political machine of Prime Minister Paul Martin. The men involved here were provincial Liberal political appointees and federal Liberal party workers; they were dealing with political lobbyists who also had extensive ties to the federal Liberal party. According to the information released so far, police believe Basi and Virk traded insider information on the privatization of BC Rail for job recommendations with the federal Liberal government. They claim Basi got documents about the tendering process from Virk to assist Colorado-based OmniTrax. The U.S. firm was a client of the Pilothouse Public Affairs Group, which was also searched by police. Pilothouse partner Erik Bornman was said to have been helping Basi and Virk land jobs with Ottawa through Mark Marissen, the husband of former deputy premier Christy Clark and Martin's West Coast campaign manager. Police also think Basi may have "offered, delivered or caused to have been delivered government documents" to Bruce Clark, a federal Liberal fundraiser and Christy Clark's brother-in-law. But none of this would have come to light if not for a federal drug and money laundering investigation titled Project Every Which Way. The provincial government's own internal mechanisms did not squeak or squawk that something was amiss in the BC Rail deal. These guys were seemingly undone because Basi, the right-hand man of former finance minister Gary Collins, was reputedly connected to the lucrative and illegal marijuana industry. He is facing charges of growing and trafficking. Police came to meet Basi and learn of the activity that led to the corruption charges because they were stalking a putative national network of organized pot smugglers. That's the investigation that netted Victoria police Const. Ravinder Singh (Rob) Dosanjh, his cousin, Mandeep Singh Sandhu -- another Liberal organizer-- and a half-dozen others in Toronto. Still, what a stroke of luck. I think the time has come to ask: How come? ... I believe the government has long hidden behind a police investigation to avoid answering pointed and rather embarrassing questions about their stewardship on a controversial deal. The political questions here go to the heart of a government's credibility. But then maybe we already have our answer -- since the raids, Christy Clark and Collins have both resigned from ascendant political careers for reasons that strike me as threadbare.

Bailey - Happy New Year - Firstly I won't argue with you about the cutbacks and etc. I'll just answer your question and spell out what motivated the government to do what they did. Budgets are forcasts based on PROJECTED revenues and PROJECTED expensis - For example the Paul Ramsay NDP budget was balanced primarilly on the bases of Hydro revenues - like the $900 Million payment we were supposed to get from California - But that didn't matter it was still a balanced budget (I agree with that , by the way). On paper everything looked good enough for the Auditor General to put his gold star on Ramsay's forehead. The next year reality set in and well we didn't get a cent from California - Now when the BCLibs were elected ( like other new governments) put together independent auditors and went through every part of government operations (the stuff the Libs weren't privy to when they were in opposition). The auditors found that most aspects of governent operations was burning through resources to the point that it couldn't sustain itself (regardless of windfalls like California's hydro payment or transfer payments, etc.) There was a STRUCTURAL deficit. The independent auditors and more importantly the people that lent the governent money in the past and present was loud and clear to the Libs in saying - "clean up the mess or we're going to make it harder for you to borrow and pay the debt that you already have" - Remember this was in 2001 (before 9/11, etc.) So Gary Collins had to come up with a 4 year plan to correct the structural deficit - The entire plan had to be presented to the creditors et al. in an effort to show them that the governent will clean up the mess. It was a long term plan that had many milestones that had to be met - Well as the saying goes you got to spend money to make money. Structural changes in the WAY government ran opperations had to be implemented - add to the mix, 9/11, SARS, Softwood Lumber, Bird Flu, Kelowna fires and hefty settlements to end BCNU, BCTF and the BCMA labour disprutptions - the plan and it's points still had to be met - Also the other thing was that BC commited itself to use GAAP - Generally Accepted Accounting Practices - Which is a set of strict accounting standards that came about at the wake of the Enron debacle - BC is the first government on the planet to use GAAP in their budgeting - it basically gives everyone the absolute truth and nitty gritty of money flowing in and out of government opperations - As a result of all that I just mentioned had to be piled on as debt. There was no way the governent could get around that considering what they commited themselves to, to the creditors. There was a positive result though, every point of Collin's plan was adhered to the satisfaction (and surprise) of the people we owed money to and as a result we now have a (truly) balanced budget and the creditors have upped our credit rating - AND as a bonus result of that, it sends a message to the rest of the world to come to BC and enjoy spending your money here, you won't regret it. Bottom line - you advertise your plan and stick to it.

Bailey - as for the election dates, it's not an 4 year or 5 year thing - The rule was put in there so that an election can not be called just because the prevailing wind favors the incumbant governement. WAC Bennet notorioiusly used that by calling elections almost every 3 years when he was in power. So what the Libs did was that they just can't call an election because the a poll of the day puts them well ahead of the opposition. The election has to happen regardless of what party the poll de jour favors.

The very best of everything to you all, and may we all enjoy freedom and happiness and enough of life's good things all year long.

Mr.R., thanks. Once again you offer a detailed explanation which just fails to answer the actual question. Two comments come to mind.

It's interesting that you mention the large windfall from California to BC Hydro, and further down, Enron. The reason California defaulted on their Hydro bill was essentially that they were bankrupted by Enron, and it's companies. They sued BC Hydro, claiming that Hydro had joined into the feeding frenzy that was fraudulently bankrupting them, and charged absurdly elevated prices, gouging them and robbing them when they were under attack by a criminal conspiracy of unprecedented scope and high connections.

When Enron was finally charged, Arthur Anderson, the accounting firm that oversaw all this fraud, renamed itself Accenture to hide itself from the consequences of the crimes committed on it's watch. Before that renaming was even completed, with timing that could either be called unseemly or frenzied with greed depending on your personal moral viewpoint, Premier Campbell himself flew to New York to hire the soon-to-be renamed Accenture to begin the privatization of BC Hydro.

What we're trying to tell you here, with typical Canadian reserve, is that we suspect a huge, complicated and interconnected criminal conspiracy linking not only the subverted Liberal parties, other neo-conservative organisations, financial institutions both here and offshore, but also companies and corporations which seem to have been formed up specifically to repeat the spectacularly successful Enron scam everywhere there is public property to be stolen. They are taking the things our parents built and purposely kept in public hands, and we think with good reason that as soon as it gets really cold some blizzardy February these people will say so sorry, your bill is tripled and tripled again. Pay us or freeze in the dark, suckers. And Mr. Campbell et al. will be in Maui clipping coupons off their Hydro shares and drinking really big martinis.

In other words, we think they're probably big time crooks, and they seem to be setting us up for the screwing of a lifetime.

Okay Bailey - I think you've read WAYYYYYY too much into my post. Just a couple of questions: What do you do if you buy a widget that was a good idea at the time, but it loses it's practicallity after a while to the point that it becomes a money pit - Which prompts your neigbors and your credit union to talk about it as a LIABILITY despite of your justifications of the widget being some sort of birth right. Do you continue to pour money into it hoping that it can sustain itself one day? I live about a kilometer away from the BC Rail yards - I pass by it sometimes, you know I never saw many people sit there just admire it like they would with their own big assets, why is that?

It's a railroad. Very useful and important as hell, but not a thing you sit and stare at.

You own your own toilet, would never let somebody else control it, but I doubt it's first on the tour when you're showing guests your house.

Nothing complicated..go back to the post where it states Canwest Global ( 100 % Liberal sunshine sellers and supporters ) own 71 % of BCs media. Liberal scandals or anything that opposes Liberals is shuffled, lost , or hardly noticed in the news. Add that to slanted editorials and op pieces..You dont need to prove it..its there day after day in BC media

Bailey is right on the 'money'. The California Electricity scandal was a planned and executed rip-off by a cabal of very nasty greedy people. Privatization there, in Ontario and soon to be here in BC was manipulated by greedy thieves. And their campaign donations let them cover their collective asses. Boulder Dam produced electricity for years for pennies and when the privatization pirates got their hands on it all of a sudden the price became around $230US the cost of the gas units delivered at the US border. Check the record it's there for if one cares to look. Why else are the Liberals letting the US holdings in investment portifolios rise. PS The same thing occurs with the stock options for mega companies - profits for shareholders is not the objective of CEOs its THEIR stock options that drive their greed. Sigh!

Federal Liberals' Top Ten Donors http://www.corporate-accountability.ca/pdfs/discussion_paper. pdf Page 28: The top ten donors, by size, were: Bank of of Nova Scotia, Canwest Global Communications Corporation, Bombardier Inc., Royal Bank of Canada, KPMG, Bank of Montreal, RBC Dominion Securities Inc., Bennett Jones LLP, Canadian Occidental Petroleum Ltd., and SNC-Lavalin Engineers & Constructors Inc. Data drawn from Elections Canada database, http://www.elections.ca/gen_info/finance_e.html

Mr, Reactionary, the so-called "structural deficit," was a complete and utter load of horse hockey. As Will Mcmartin explained in a recent Tyee article, the sum total rationale, or LACK of rationale, behind the structural deficit, was that BC MIGHT experience a deficit, WERE THE NDP REELECTED AND HAD THEY CONTINUED ON THEIR PRESENT COURSE. HOWEVER, after both 9-11 and the softwood lumber crisis, they would not have done so, but wopuld have instead endeavoured to find a sane, and humane way to balance the books.

The BC BACKSTABBERS, HOWEVER, IMPLEMENTED with their ETHICAL AND HUMANITARIAN DEFICIT, an unprecedented and UNWAARRANTED attack on the disabled, the youing, the old, the sick, women, and the dying, ALL TO PAY FOR THE UNCAMPAINED-ON TAXCUT FOR THE RICH. The result: EQUALIZATION PAYMENTS -ALWAYS THE SIGN OF A FAILED ECONBOMY, FOR THREE OUT OF FOUR YEARS OF BC LIAR RULE, AND NOW, THE CLAIMS OF AN ECONOMIC RECOVERY WHEN, BY THE VANCOUVER SUN'S OWN ADMISSION, BC LOST 22,600 FULL TIME JOBS IN 2003. CLAIMS OF AN ECONOMIC RECOVERY IN BC IN FACT, HAVING ANYTHING OTHER TO DO THAN LOW INTEREST RATES FUELING HOUSING STARTS AND HIGH PRICES FOR NATURAL RESOURCES, ARE BASE, FOUL, CANWEST PROPAGANDA.

Mr. R., SMELL YOUR TAINTED MONEY MORE CLOSELY. THE STENCH IS THE DEATHS OF INNOCENT PEOPLE WHO, UNLIKE OUR PREMIER, HAVE BUILT THIS PROVINCE, INSTEAD OF TEARING IT DOWN ON THE FLIMSIEST AND MOST TRANSPARENT PRETEXTS. Now, give your tainted money to the food bank and beg your children's and grandchildren's forgiveness...

As we have these conversations about ideological labels I can’t help thinking that our problem is really much deeper, more basic than name calling, than ‘left and right wing’ , ‘socialist and capitalist’, communist hoards vs neoconservative criminal gangs. These ways of looking at our disagreements are really just distractions from the truth we don’t want to face.

We’re all in the same boat, and we’re all aware, on some level we’ve been aware for a long time, that it’s sinking.

The French Revolution motto was Freedom, Brotherhood, and Equality, the American one had Out of Many, One. The Russians tried to unite all the functions of society into commons, make everyone responsible for everyone else. Labour unionists call each other ‘brothers and sisters’. I believe all these are attempts to expand the functions and duties of family. Make them apply in new ways, to people not related in the usual way by ties of blood or marriage. To bypass the need for many children to make us safe in the world.

Malthusian mathematics, as well as studies of predator/prey populations, as well as the agricultural calculation to figure the carrying capacity of pastures, all these say we are about to crash. Our species is about to follow that disastrous downward curve that always comes when the numbers reach a certain point.

The reason is that we are just too many, and the cure is to stop breeding so fast. We know it. We say it, some of us, but we avoid looking at it. We breed to have families, we need families to care for us when we’re old, to protect us when we’re young, to stand with us. To feed us all and give us love and rest and people to share our woes and triumphs. To remember us when we’re gone. We attempt, here and there, to create new ways to live that can provide for these deep needs of human beings, but so far all have failed. To succeed, we have to do a very scary thing. We have to trust each other.

Not everyone is trustworthy. Some people, in fact, think of themselves as wolves, and think that the great mass of people who are trustworthy, and trusting, they’re the sheep. To survive, these wolves think, is merely a matter of picking off a bunch of sheep, the more the better, that will make them rich, and if they’re rich enough, they will survive the disaster. They will be ancestors. Nothing really bad could ever happen to them if only they can get rich enough. So they prey, and since they’re not really wolves, but humans, they are very clever about it, and their efforts ruin the chances of all those who strive to make human families into what they must become to save us....large and strong and stable, without the need for many children just to carry on. Wolves dislike the idea that sheep might unite, and co-operate against wolfkind.

So, of course when the sheep own their own hydro dams, the wolves are outraged, when they want to marry for reasons of their own, without reference to the wolves need for new baby sheep to prey on, the wolves howl. This is why property rights have been elevated to sacred status, far above mere life and death, why those who form families which are not about babies are opposed so vehemently. Families can accumulate property, and own it together, and family property can be protected, passed on into the future. When wolves come for one with family, they find him defended.

Still, we continue to create false categories and slot others into them dismissively. Isolate ourselves further and further. We live alone in our big houses and pretend we like our independence. We call each other names and tell ourselves that God really agrees with us, and just keep going on and on and on like we know what we’re doing.

gibble blibble bunyun backabaroo

canbe on theteemyomyheeeee

zabazaboobazabeeeeeee!!!!

Bailey, 1/2/2005 2:43:18 PM, writes: "...The reason is that we are just too many, and the cure is to stop breeding so fast. We know it. We say it, some of us, but we avoid looking at it."

Say, thanks Bailey for your thoughtful piece on our collective conundrum. While I can appreciate the need to understand why it is we've reached the point we have in our apparent downward spiral toward extinction I still find that associating our misery with our numbers is not the real answer.

A recent bit of information on population that's been floating about the net claims that if the total population of the globe were to be concentrated (of all places!) in the state of Texas, the inhabitants would still have something like a radius of 30 feet (or maybe metres, not sure) of space to frolic about in.

What that tells me is that our predicament is definitely a people-made one but that the solutions to feeding and clothing and housing and living to a decent standard, in co-habitation with the other species, are problems not of overcrowding but of lack of imagination, creativity and courage to implement new ways of organizing ourselves.

Bailey, thanks for your organized thoughts. I'd nominate you for Premier of B.C., OK?

Meantime, what can we do to expose the crime and corruption operating within this province?

I reccomend posting on Canwest and Canada.com "SOUND-OFF" posts, BC Mary. Slip in the truth the bastards least want to hear: about gordon campbell, about the bc liberal economic failure etc, etc, and continue posting your excellent and well organized ideas on the Tyee... myself, I believe in going for the jugular as well as presenting ideas, as you have likely noticed...

Reading your excellent posts Bailey, I could not help wondering if you have read Ronald Wright's A Short history of Progress. Many of Wright's ideas are similar to yours. Wright details lucidly how every single agricultural and technology driven society has been brought down by two factors: over dependence and trust in agricultural and other technologies, and the greed of its whatever society's elites, who like all right wing governments, lack the ability to learn from past mistakes, to even react to ecological destruction, no matter how obvious and how much in their faces this destruction is. From the Sumerians to the Romans to the Easter Islanders, corrupt elites have been responsible for societal, social and economic collapse. For every group of elites has been convinced that it could survive the destruction of its own people...to date no group of elites has. I reccomend Wright, a BC academic and writer, to all thinking people...

If we were all frogs, and frogs could fly,

The sky would be full of flying frogs,

and you and I would be there by now.

Interesting post Bailey, however the problem goes beyond simply “trust” The reality is, in principle most people will generally agree on certain fundamental points of view. However when politics enters the equation, suddenly you have vested interests and this leads to differing points of view. My personal favorite is one you will inevitably see kicked around during election time, and that is school closures. The reality is, we have over 24,000 fewer students in the province, so for school districts that means less students, and given the per student funding formula, this means less money. When you factor in that a school district loosing only 50 students will in turn loose over $ 250,000 – that puts a serious kink on the budget, after all if your income declines due to fewer students, and yet you are still having to pay for all of the same existing infrastructure with now less money – what do you do? So given that enrollment has been on decline for over a decade, and you can save $ 200,000 by closing a 40 year old school that is half empty – that might be a consideration. However politically if a school board closes a school, they face the wrath of the BCTF, CUPE and every other BC Fed/NDP Union come Election Day. So instead, many districts take the easy route and decide to keep all of the schools open, and instead quietly cut other education services from the expense sheet. What would you rather see – 10 not full schools with limited services, or 9 with full services? Would you rather have your kids at the fully serviced school or the school where services have been quietly cut back just to keep that 40 year old school open? This is why I find it interesting that Carole James has not committed to re-open any schools, in fact she has said it would re “irresponsible” to do so. I suspect as a former trustee, she knows all to well the declining enrollment numbers, and that ultimately fully serviced schools are better for kids, and for many districts eliminating older underutilized school is the responsible thing to do. Why else has she been so quiet on the issue? Yet the BCTF and CUPE of course realize that fewer schools=fewer members and that means less Union dues, which is what these organizations need to survive on. I suppose you can trust both CUPE and the BCTF to come forward and tell us the exact number of schools closed in the next four months, but can you trust them to tell you the exact drop in student enrollments? To use your analogy Bailey, the kids are the sheep in this sordid affair while the BCTF and CUPE Wolves will be thinking exactly as you have predicted; To survive, these wolves need more schools open, “without the need for many children in them”, the more schools the better, that will mean more staff and more dues, and that will make them rich, and if they’re rich enough, they will survive. The Wolves are everywhere Bailey, and if you think they only live on the “right” side of the forest, you are sadly mistaken.

Dear BC Mary; Your question is very pertinent. If our suspicions about the mainstream press are even part right, we can forget them.

For example, on the very day of the raids, there was some coverage in the Cowichan Valley and on some Vancouver Island TV News about Mr. Basi's real estate aqcuisitions and especially the grow-op house on Shawnigan Road that was raided. That was a great story, it had everything, money, drugs, high placed names to name, lots of scope to expand. What they used to call legs. But after only a day or so it was just dropped, no more great pictures, no more great details. I thought we'd at least hear the addresses of his other houses, but no, nothing. It just stopped.

Woodward and Bernstein, if it's an apt comparison, had their Deep Throat, a source highly enough placed to convince their editor to let them poke around along the lines he suggested, to uncover the covered up details, and they also had the Washington Post to publish those details.

As far as I can see we've got thee and me and maybe this Tyee. Who's reading here? We need true facts, confirmable ones. We need small details that unfold to become coherent pictures. There must be many honourable people caught up in this Liberal mess against their conscience, who would give such details, where are you? Speak here, it seems pretty anonymous. With so many here to do legwork, and placed as we are all over the province, there could be confirmations.

There's even a button at the top of this page that will e-mail it to anyone at all.

I don't know if it would be enough, Mary. I don't even know if we could do it, but right now it really seems like all we've got.

You know what, though. There's also a huge amount of factual evidence, even letters and tapes, that were leaked at one point to labour unions. Especially the HEU had some amazing stuff on their website and in their newsletters a couple of years ago.

Just resurecting and organising that stuff would be a very powerful way to begin to expose the bigger picture here.

Fred Muzzin might be the guy to ask. Or the publisher of the HEU Magazine, The Guardian. Whaddya say guys? Do you want to share some of the stuff from your archives with us sheep?

Good point Bailey. There is already a stack of material out there that only needs a little coordinating. One thing I would suggest is that you might quit giving Mssrs. Lahey, R et/al a lot of free response time in their efforts to take the focus away from that gang in Victoria. The reality here is we have a government in deep trouble because of these criminal charges that now apparently link our highest elected officials to crooks involved in drugs trafficking, fraud and god only knows what else. Senior cabinet ministers who were linked either directly or through their family ties to suspects, have quit. Those suspects were appointed to senior politically appointed positions where government secrets are shared and entrusted. I don't even have to bring up the dirt on Campbell himself such as his bizarre drunk driving mission or his ties to that Wall fellow in Prince George. It's simply a matter of trust and how many times some people can be tricked by the same con.

Once again Mr. lahey comes out IN FAVOUR OF ATTACKING CHILDREN. It's just fine with Mr lahey if rural children have to spend up to three hours every day on a bus, to pay for his taxcut. AFTER ALL -HE'S DOING OK, AND IT'S NOT HIS KIDS OR GRANDKIDS -YET. YOU SUCK BIGTIME LAHEY -GO BACK TO ALBERTA, THEY LIKE RIGHTWING CRETINS THERE.

That was a good post Bailey. Politics is very divisive.

Now I'd be happy to have a beer with Mr Lahey or even Binette and see if we couldn't find some common ground. I have no doubt we could. But only so long as we avoided party politics.

For example I agree with you Mr Lahey that when there's less students it can mean less teachers. It would be nice to have a better student to teacher ratio but that's not my big problem with the cuts. My problem is that school closures that can be lived with in the lower mainland are hard on people in rural areas. I used to take a bus to elementary school. 35 minutes in the morning and 15 minutes after school. Not too bad. In grade 8 it became 80 minutes each way. That's a huge chunk of the day for a kid. The worst part though was no after-school activities like sports etc. So when I see kids in places like Wells having to be bussed for two hours I think they could have kept those rural schools open without bankrupting the province. Sometimes you have to do the right thing and long bus trips are not reasonable. And of course what really ticks me is I think how many rural teacher salaries could have been paid for with the money that went to government ads instead.

Thanks for the post Frank, keep in mind a few points, specifically Education and Health were the only two Ministries to NOT face budget cuts unlike all of the rest - both health and education spending are the largest they have ever been. I think it is very important to recognize that. Let's also recognize that it is school boards, not Victoria that decides how to deal with the impact of less revenue from fewer students - If we can agree on those basics, than we are in a better position to debate the problems that you have cited (and I concur with) In fact, I have long felt that the fundamental problem with per student funding is that it naturally discriminates against rural areas. School districts with a large geographic area and limited students simply do not get enough funds to offer the same types of services as more populated areas. That said I think there is a solution – qualified rural school districts should get a supplementary grant that provides for MORE funding per student in order to make up for the limited revenue caused by having fewer students. Not unlike the loan forgiveness program for Doctors – if they practice in certain designated areas, for a specific time frame (I think at least three years) physicians can get greater relief on their student loans. If this type of thinking were extended to rural school districts, it could go along way to address some of the issues you mentioned. Having said that, at the same time we also need to recognize in larger areas closing older, underutilized schools makes far more sense than quietly cutting library services or special needs from all of the rest just to keep those old, inefficient schools open. It makes more sense to travel say and extra 20 minutes for a full educational offering, than to walk five minutes for a limited educational offering. In fact the one thing that Christy did do (that I think was a good thing) was allow parents to choose what school they wanted their kids to attend; interestingly enough, many parents are prepared to travel a great deal if they feel their kids will get educated at a better school. Of course the BCTF still live in the dreamworld where every corner should have such a school all within a five minute walk and the reality is, no matter what government you elect, that is simply not going to happen with student enrollment on a steady decline and health care costs rising by the billions. And I am the type of guy who definitely would take you up on that offer for a beer; hell I’d even buy.

Mr. Lehay, talk about wolves' in sheep's clothing. Sorry, I don't buy the concilatory attitude. Not for a minute. The discussion on this thread is about corruption, the BC Rail deal, Basi and Virk, and their ties to the provincial and federal governments. I'm not going to be a nice left-winger. This is one of the times we better be tough or we will lose this whole province.

This reminds me very much of the total hypocrisy that existed with the Republican Congressmen and Senators (Henry Hyde et al) who crucified Bill Clinton through a humiliating public inquisition that demanded he confess all his sins in intricate detail to the world while they hid behind their own self-righteous masquerades, though guilty of the very same offences themselves. It is that that I find disgusting here by those defending the BC Liberals.

They would and did crucify Clark over a deck, a very small one at that, but they want us to overlook much more serious offences by them, that have much more serious consequences to this province. As allan stated above, Mr. Lahey's, Mr. R.'s et al's purpose here is to distract, divert, and downplay the very serious culpability of both the federal and provincial governments in this scandal. I think the line is being drawn ever more deeply in the sand - this is a government trying to skate as fast as they can over thin ice.

For instance, in the BC Rail deal, this government contracted out, "a fairness advisor", an idea they borrowed from business. The fairness advisor's opinion is based on a supposed detailed analysis. I say "supposed" because the details have not been made public. The public has had no accessibility to the information so how do we decide if the fairness advisor has indeed been fair? This is what I mean by the line being drawn ever more deeply in the sand because this government is no longer a democratic one, it has even contracted out "fairness" - removed it from the public's grasp, made it elusive, untouchable, unaccountable. Just how much, how many of our rights are we willing to lose?

I will end with a quote by David Schreck, I'm sure that will endear me to Mr. Lahey: "It would be useful for the public to have access to those detailed analyses rather than having to rely on the assessment of the fairness advisor. It is the public's job to determine the fairness of public policy. It is the public's job to hold government accountable. It is not fair for government to tell the public that it has contracted out the public's right to have access to information and it's right to hold government to account."

This government has privatized fairness, accountability and our democratic right to information. Emerson once said "in skating over thin ice, our safety is in our speed." We're going to have skate as fast or faster than the present government's attempt to escape thin ice and elude our questions.

Great response lynn. By May the ice ought to be gone in most places in B.C. Then it will be either sink or swim. Best we begin exercising our political muscles NOW.

It would be nice to have some posters stop trying so hard to label others 'left' or 'right' just because opinions differ. My opinion of the present government is that is corrupt, deceitful, mendacious and any other negative label you would care to add. Plain and simple this government's track record is absolutely atrocious. It is a government that promised so much and delivered so little except to its campaign supporters. One can only assume from the preems absence from the Legislature is that he is a coward and afraid to face a three person opposition and the press gallery. Notice that he never misses a chance for a photo op with his campaign money supporters while avoiding the press. This man and his minions have continued the practice of having British Columbia be the continuing joke of Canadian politics. I really thought this bunch would bring credibility to politics in the Province but instead we have had a four year Gong Show. From Wall to Basi and yet to be discovered other no-nos they don't offer much hope for change. By the way the promise not to spend government cash on advertising is just icing on the ever longer list of broken promises. Does this commentary make me a 'lefty?' Or a disgruntled, uneducated and sour 'righty?' Thank goodness May is just around the corner.

lynn, you will have to accept my apologies for expressing my opinion, clearly discussions about school closures should take a back seat to criminal charges against government staff. You mentioned Schreck, did you happen to read the crap he posted looking to make political points on the death of a child who was attacked by a dog ? After reading this I think the man is the worst piece of scum on the planet. If you have ever had the misfortune of witnessing a dog attack and a child you will understand the pile of excrement Scheck has lowered himself to.

Mr.Lahey your continued attempt to trivialize the current investigation into our govts.handling of the BC rail fiasco either shows the extent of your willingness to collaborate with theses "criminals",or your lack of understanding why specific threads exist to explore specific questions.Clearly discussions about schools closures must take a back seat when we are trying to come to terms with an unprecedented breach of public trust.What is even more confusing is the serious and potentially disastrous economic message this sends to the rest of the investment world.Companies put tremendous time and resources pursuing competitive bids and to have the process exposed as a diligently executed scam will seriously harm the confidence honest companies have in our tenderring process.We still have the olympics to prepare for and this will seriously hurt our ability to attract the best companies to do buisness with.And I thought buisness was what the liberal govt. was all about.I believed in their promises about running govt. as a buisness. It made sense to view the province as a powerful and wealthy corporation with the liberal govt. acting in our best interests.Yet since day 1 the liberals have done nothing of the sort acting more like thieves opening the back door for their friends in the alley than competent CEO's o f a powerful,diverse and valuable asset.Collectively the people of BC are strong.It makes sound economic sense to share and hold key and crucial essential services in the hands of each and every British columbian.If this is a form of socialism so be it .It works, ICBC BC Hydro BC ferries BC Rail BC GAS BC hospitals and BC schools these are legacies that our parents and grandparents created for the benefit of all future generations.We can thwart these attacks on our heritage because it is never to late. As to your disturbingly bizarre attack on David Shreck, it is standard practise to investigate,question the circumstances of any child's death,particularly when that child has had previous contact with the ministry,regardless of how horrific and brutal their deaths may have been.It is through the exposure of where mistakes were made that efforts to avoid similiar circumstances might be avoided further protecting the public and in this case children more effectively.

Lynn, its not a case of being a "nice left-winger" although I like to think I am.

Its just that we're all in the same culture regardless of our politics and chances are we agree on a lot of things outside Libs vs NDP. Reasonable people can usually find some common ground unless Lahey is a Flames fan in which all bets are off.

As for the BC Rail scandal, I've already said that damn right it should be followed up and although I'd like to see the Spanish Inquisition go after Gordo I wouldn't write off all right-wingers over it. Very few people vote for corruption regardless of their politics.

Mr. Lahey, it is just very interesting how you parachuted the idea of school closures into a discussion about corruption in the BC Rail deal. (I agree very much with Frank's point about the plight of rural children and two hour school bus trips. Especially, the risk they now face under severe weather conditions.) However, you manipulated the discussion to divert from the topic, to underplay the real seriousness of this scandal.

Again, corruption in government is beyond party politics. All political parties must be accountable, not by a contracted out "fairness advisor" but by the people of this province.

It is the people speaking here. You are counting on us being nice and tolerant...that we will roll over, overlook and forget. How many times has that ploy been used throughout history? Well, even the very tolerant, forgiving Jesus threw the money-changers out of the synagogues...with real insense and anger, I might add. People sense, in fact, smell, when a government has gone too far, in this case way too far. I live north of a town where BC Ferries (with no BC in it, any longer) plans to privatize all three ferry routes into our town. We are an island, stranded without those links - with the threat of much higher fares in the wind. To say, this town is enraged would be an understatement.

Campbell and crew made a rather small deck into a disaster of titanic proportions and an ultra co-operative media reported every nail that went into the cedar planking. If Carole James should make one wrong move, you and that same media will be all over her like a bad rash. And yet you expect us to be continually nice about it all your betrayals, you expect us to tolerate hypocritical behavior, lies, and diversionary tactics that are manipulated by greedy self-interest and an unwillingness to disclose the details of this deal. There are many questions to be answered and we have a right to that information. We expect no less.

Frank, I wasn't referring to you, so I'm sorry if that seemed the implication. I just think this is a government that continually lies, betrays, and subverts and then expects us to be nice about it - offering us the political equivalent of a bouquet of red roses and a box of chocolates... hoping we'll forget their continual betrayals as if they were just minor indiscretions. And above all "be nice about it" so they can continue merrily, merrily along their corrupt ways ... as for the Flames ...I think I'd better stick to politics, though there is actually ice floating on this frosty inlet today ( that said, I hope they are a hockey team, I know nothing about sports as you can see).

Wading through the comments above, the damage done by an unfit media is clear: mistruths and baseless supposition are heralded as fact simply because they were repeated often enough in 48-point type by CanWest and the Eastern media. Meanwhile, objective truth remains utterly controversial because it was never proclaimed in 48-point type by CanWest and the Eastern media.... For example, the "fact" that the BC Liberals inherited a multi-billion structural deficit and used sound fiscal management to turn it into a multi-billion dollar surplus. Will McMartin tackled the deficit part very well, as someone pointed out. I'd love to see him do a Part II on the sudden surplus, but unless it's heralded in the nightly news and the daily headlines, it will have little impact and the prevailing impression will prevail.... Or the "fact" that 200 schools have closed, libraries are being gutted and kids with special needs ignored because of declining enrolment. Vancouver School Board accountants documented $100 million dollars cut from their budget over 10 years (in inflation adjusted dollars) despite virtually STABLE ENROLMENT. When BC had far lower enrolment (and far fewer taxpayers) in past generations, how is it that we never had to resort to 4-day school weeks, etc?...... Or the "fact" that the media did a good job in outing the Doug Walls/MCFD scandal, so we can all stop worrying. In reality, several BC reporters knew of the serious questions & complaints re Walls's odd role at MCFD for over a year before the story finally broke with the unrelated announcement re a fraud investigation of his car dealership bankruptcy. Even then, they've ignored the fundamental questions, as in the BC Rail deal: how many tens of millions did inside dealing cost taxpayers? To what extent did the shennanigans corrupt the process? And to what extent were political superiors involved? And who is writing about the less "juicy" scandals--like cost-cutting policies that now send BC foster kids to fend for themselves on the streets at 16 or that pressure foster parents to adopt younger kids? Or the cutting of over 1,000 MCFD staff, including social workers & case managers? What about the impact of cuts to other sectors? This failure isn't all intentional. The real stories take far more effort--and who has time for legwork when one's own budget has been cut and you know the fluff pieces will get more play anyway.... Our mainstream media have largely underplayed or downplayed the risks and costs of budget cuts and overplayed the accomplishments of a business-friendly government. Of course our economy is vitally important, but in the rush to cheerlead their team, they've overlooked incompetence, short-sightedness and corruption of the democratic process. We don't need to find Mafia dons to show the rot that threatens our core structures when the only perspective that matters is whether it's good for a political party's financial backers; or when three of our most powerful institutions--big media, big government and big business--are so closely in lockstep with each other, instead of with their own citizenry, and the countervailing power of a strong political opposition is almost non-existent.

Excellent responses to Mr lahey from Frank, Lynn and others. Mr Lahey has continually ignored my pointing out at what the campbell junta has done to school children, and indeed, every child in bc that comes from a non-wealthy family. I won't even bother getting into the new child labor laws, instituted by the bc backstabbers, now way less progressive than alabama's...

Some minor good news today, there is a column in today's Vancouver Sun, by Vaughn Palmer opining that the BC RAIL SCANDAL DEFINITELY HAS "LEGS," THAT WILL EASILY CARRY ITS IMPACT AND PRESENCE INTO THE NEXT BC ELECTION. While this is probably obvious, it is still important for palmer to say so, as, after stephen hume, he is probably canwest's most trustable columnist, after stephen hume... (I'm not counting some of the victoria times colonist's columnists who appear nowhere else, who are more progressive than palmer, like jody patterson) The palmer article is not available online, so I haven't read it yet, but at least canwest (not to their credit) may be BEGINNING to respond to public opinion...

For those interested, there is a rather JUICY province sound-off thread concerning the tasteless jack the ripper dolls being marketed by a vancouver company... I was only to get one post on it, but it's a good one, as are some of the progressive replies to it...tyee readers may enjoy this thread...the only other sound-off thread I've seen in the new year worth perusing is the campbell/james thread at canada.com, on which gordon liar continues to get his butt kicked, along with his supporters...

There was a BC media frenzy when Gordon Wilson, Leader of the Opposition, had an affair with Judi Tyabji, M.L.A. The shrieking got so bad, both of them quit politics. (B.C.'s loss.) And Gordon Campbell took the Opposition Leader's chair.

Next media frenzy focused on the Clark family's back porch. Glen Clark was hounded until he quit. And Gordon Campbell took his chair too.

Just because the media has gone quiet on the RCMP raids doesn't mean that this isn't the run-up to Gordon Campbell unseating Paul Martin ...

Right on, Burgess! What has happened in with the Campbell era and the commonly expressed outrage by British Columbians, has little to do with left and right politics and everything to do with the ethical (or lack thereof) conduct of individuals within the bureacratic/political arms of government. One of the most successful politicians in British Columbia, the Hon. W.A.C. Bennett (not his son!) understood some keys: appeal to the general public's needs; appeal to the women of the province for common sense to prevail during strikes etc; combine the best from the right and the left political beliefs e.g. B.C. Hydro, B.C. Ferries; B.C Rail etc. - knowing that there must be a thriving economy through both private and public initiatives to support a strong social service network. He was a true leader with a vision. Laughably, although I actually heard Campbell hold up W.A.C. as someone he admired he has destroyed everything that the former Premier built for the people of B.C. The only tunnel vision that Campbell has is to further line the pockets of his close circle of associates whose strings are all attached to him. It is a very closed shop. One last comment: It is important for people to understand that there are senior bureaucrats who are savvy enough to know WHO to cooperate with in the political system in order to climb the ladder. Those same bureaucrats ultimately lie quietly in the shadows from government to government. They are the people who often end up controlling and manipulating who gets what and when. It is a farce to believe that due process actually exists from within government AT THE PRESENT TIME. A similar situation existed under Vander Zalm. Many of these bureaucrats were in senior influencial positions then. Many of the key organizers and Cabinet Ministers also were at PLAY under Vander Slam. If there is a changing of the guard this May, it is absolutely necessary for the new politicians to remove senior bureaucrats that have controlled such assets such as crown land and what and who is rewarded with government contracts; people who choose to turn a blind eye to ethical conduct on behalf of corrupt politicians for their own power and benefit. IF THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN - NOTHING WILL CHANGE AND THE NEW GOVERNMENT ELECT WILL QUICKLY BECOME THE TAIL WAGGING THE DOG.

Ladies and gentlemen, I begin to think that Mr.R, Mr. Lahey and their ilk posting here may have another purpose.

The suggestions made above to organise and expose evidence in a concerted way will be very dangerous and damaging to their friends, the Liberals, if we carry it out. But each time our conversation turns to strategies of tactics which might have some effectiveness, one of them chimes in with a controversial comment about something unrelated, and basically hijacks the agendas we are pursuing.

If we think about it, that is precisely the tactic Liberals always use. Distract, disinform, disregard. Never answer the questions asked; if an answer must be given, answer some other question, so to avoid uncomfortable truths. Count heavily on the old maxim BBB; Bullshit Baffles Brains.

I suggest we stop allowing them to continually change the subject, set the topics to suit themselves, and thereby disarm this public forum which they cannot directly control yet.

Bailey, they certainly do. How many times have they thrown out Harry Lali and Moe Sihota's names in recent posts that refer to the ongoing police investigation and political scandal over raids and subsequesnt charges in the legislature? Besides having a marked racial smear tone to them, they are obviously thrown up to counter the names of David Basi and Bob Verk the two appointees who are apparently linked to so many senior Liberals. Now that drug and fraud charges apparently over the sale of BC Rail deal have been laid, the desperation thickens with Lahey adding the BCTF, David Schreck and even local school districts to those he sees as handy villans. These guys are all spin.

Bailey, they certainly do. How many times have they thrown out Harry Lali and Moe Sihota's names in recent posts that refer to the ongoing police investigation and political scandal over raids and subsequesnt charges in the legislature? Besides having a marked racial smear tone to them, they are obviously thrown up to counter the names of David Basi and Bob Verk the two appointees who are apparently linked to so many senior Liberals. Now that drug and fraud charges have been filed apparently over the BC Rail deal have been laid, the desperation thickens with Lahey adding the BCTF, David Schreck and even local school districts to those he sees as handy villans. These guys are all spin.

They certainly are presenting a pattern here and on other threads to distract from the topics and to try to divert the direction of our questions. I've noticed, too, the continual popping up of Lali and Sihota in their comments, and you're right allan the smear at Schreck and the BCTF is full of desperation (and spite I might add). Good idea, bailey, that we foil their attempts to control the conversation.

Back to the point, way back when. We still need to get this story out. The evidence is there, it's just the willingness that's lacking. As the Liberals themselves are slowly breaking rank, surely the press will follow. But we must encourage them, encourage the truth - it's our only hope.

As this thread was fairly difficult to find today, it's fair to assume that it might disappear soon.

What say we make a specific appeal to David Beer and Barbara McLintock to continue with this story? And perhaps to accept, off-line, any relevant information we can provide?

For what it's worth, there have been TWO articles by Vaughn Palmer, one by Les Leyne, and one today by Michael Smyth on the BC Rail and the legislature raids in the last week.Unfortuneately, I haven't read anything but the header as they were in the online for subscribers only section of canwest newspapers. Has anyone read them and seen anything of noteworthyness? I am not saying this says anything positive about Canwest's credibility -it looks more like them covering their butts about impending bad news for the bc backstabbers. I would say that harry lali and sihota are virtually conversational NONSTARTERS for most people, most people do not even know who lali is, or what it was he supposedly did, so this topic is mostly a sign of campbell supporter's desperation. I also agree that lahey and others are trying to hijack the thread's topic. Friends, if I wander too far off course, with my hot temper, give me a reminder,please, -however, sometimes I think it's usefull to bring up other bc liar reprehensible behavior, as long as the main topic is returned to, digressions CAN be good tacticts, but should be brief, I agree...

BC MAry, most tyee articles are archived under either "News," "Views," or "media check," on the tyee's home page, where they can usually be accessed for several months. They can also be google searched, perhaps indefinitely, on the home page. However, they tend to generate fewer posters and interest once they are archived.

Just read the michael smyth piece which suggests that the several warrants served in the last year, SOME OF WHICH ARE STILL SEALED AND THE SUBJECTS OF THE WARRANTS CONCEALED, BY BC LIBERAL FAN, JUSTICE PATRICK DOHME (sp?) COULD BE VERY BAD NEWS FOR THE BC LIARS....anyone else know more?? Haven't read either the two palmer columns or the les leyne column yet, as I just hate to give scummy canwest any money whatsoever, unless I have no other choice...

I just read the Les Leyne editorial in the Times-Colonist for the 5th. It was the most amazing bit of tail chasing I've seen lately in our species. The first paragraph is long and painfully complicated and claims that "conceivably" the three alleged bagmen, or two bagmen and and a mule, or whatever the hell these guys are supposed to be will walk away scot-free and without a stain upon their exonerated and lily white characters in a year or so. Then goes on to hint just ever so gently that the crimes sholud never see light until after the election, and toward the end suggests that it might actually be bigger than it looks.

In only one part does it mention the fact that others must be involved, but remain unnamed, by saying remarkably that, "if this were a TV show,that would be because they are helping police with their enquiries"

"Conceivably"? "A TV show"? How many ways are there to say things that you know aren't true, without actually saying anything that isn't true?

If this were a soap opera, Mr.Leyne really ought to conceivably be pretty embarrassed at this column. He can't have wished to be a journalist only to churn out this kind of stuff.

Thanks for your response, Bailey. Despite the vicoria times colonist being the least biased of the threee big papers, les leyne has always been the most biased of the three political columnists, palmer, smyth and les leyne. I'm not saying that any of the three can be trusted, but palmer, and smyth, in the last year have at least tried to APPEAR unbiased. Leyne has always been the least trustworthy of the three. Smyth was entirely pro bc liar, until shortly afterxmas, 2003, when all of a sudden, he became much harder on the government. I'm not suggesting ANY of the three are that admirable, nontheless they are taken seriously by a lot of the public. I haven't read the two palmer columns but smyth at least identified and dwelt on the fact that we still don't know who the subject of the warrants were... leyne is almost always an outright shill, but unfortunately he is taken seriously by many...with all three columnists writng on the raid so much in one week, it does suggest some serious damage control is taking place, to me at least....

A third palmer column in the space of about a week on the raids on the bc legislature, this one seeming to be palmer acting as damage control for the liberals, judging by the title. Will try and read it for free, as I do not believe in giving canwest any money. The number of columns from the three columnists, FIVE in the last week, as well as the deliberate deletion of all but two SOUND-OFF threads containing containing negative comment about gordon liar (and the desperate stacking of the province jack the ripper sound-off thread with rightwing opinion -IS DINO REX A CANWEST STAFFER??!!) suggests that Canwest is running increasingly scared. I also have foud it heartening to note that the first NDP television ads are beginning to appear, albeit in small numbers...

I managed to read the last palmer column in which his main point is, WHO OFFERED THE BRIBES IS STILL NOT KNOWN. Who were basi and virk selling their information to besides eric bornmann? UNTIL THIS IS KNOWN THE CASE CAN REALLY NOT BE CONSIDERED CLOSED....

The thing that causes gas in my stomach and forces me to do the pepto-bismol dance to relieve the pressure is that the Liberals keep repeating over and over again that they are not very good in communicating what they are doing to the public. My question is, how can you possibly communicate to the public what you are doing if you are not telling the truth? Gordon Campbell always opens up his speeches with this line: "Let's make one thing very clear." But what he said before and what he said after don't match.Reminds me of the Midas touch ad on Tv with the guy connected to a lie detector. "Are you going to sell BC Rail? CAmpbell: "No." Are you going to privatize healt care? Campbell: "No." Have you invested some money on salmon farms? Campbell: "NO." So when are you going to say Yes? Campbell: "NO." Are you going to stop using taxpayer's money on expensive ads? Campbell: "No." Are you going to say 'yes"if I say no? Campbell: "NO." ARe you going to win the election in May? Campbell: "NO"(the needle swings widely) Yesss!!!! Campbell fails the polygraph test. fails the polygraph test.

Maybe he'll become a permanent Hawaiian resident where the Islanders will be forced to ensure that roadblocks are up 24/7, all year. If he does get caught, perhaps one of his bagmen who own property there, will come and bail him out. Or would they when he's no longer of value to them?

Who hired Basi? asks plg (above) on 12/28/2004. Good question. The answer is in bill tieleman's column of Jan. 13/05: Gary Collins personally hired David Basi -- the only BC Cabinet Minister to do so.

So why are you all reading the Prowince,Vancouver Scum, Nanaimo Bulls**tin, The Mop and Pail, National ComPost, watching CanWaste or Global BS--- or even the Port Hardly Gazettini? The Weekenders? These are all preachers of Marketplace Myths, all the while quiet on the corporate crimes of the century. Boycott them all, for God's sake! With internet alternative press, you don't have to read 'em or watch 'em at all! Tell their advertisers you won't shop there if they don't stop advertising with the propaganda press! Don't shop at Wal-Marts and other promotors of "offshore" slave labour. No Nike. No The Gap-ing ethics. No Future Slop. DO NOT ENCOURAGE Asper, Black (both kinds) or Bell. Roger or Shaw, either. Don't dine at White Spot -- especially on the ferry. DO something. Don't just stand there! Get back at the Liberal supporthosers! This is not that difficult! Hurt one of their businesses a day. They don't mind hurting us!

Marysue, ignorance is not a defence. To understand the process by which British Columbians decide their votes, with any hope of counteracting it, we must be aware of what the mainstream media are saying.

I admire your passion -- it helps us to push onward in this uphill struggle -- but please don't yell! scream! ridicule! your compatriots.

re: BC Mary's comment - gary Collins resigned and I think it has more to do with this issue the the need for more "family time." It is time we had some investigative journalists working on this.

Correct me if I am wrong, but hasn't the media gone utterly silent on the topic of Basi, Virk, Basi, the RCMP raids, etc.? Doesn't David Basi appear in court again on 26 January? Plus: aren't there similar issues in Ottawa with Sgro's ministerial aides?

Sgro too? What is the issue with her aides?

You know, this could be a whole new strategy for evading coverage of major scandals among the dissembling classes. The doctrine of the pre-emptive resignation. How would the conversation go?

Don't worry, Minister! I know it's crooked, but if it looks like you might be exposed, we'll get you to resign for some trivial reason the Aspers can play down, make you look good by spinning your family as your reason for going, and get you a fat job with one of the boys.

Um...can you fly a plane or anything?

Sgro was a Federal Liberal Martinized Cabinet minister, re-elected by playing the ethnic cards. Check it out. Ask Shiela Copps. Ask Herb Dhaliwal, Herb Casson, David Collenette, Charles Caccia, Richard Mahoney .... same drill, same results.

For a handy list of well-organized facts, B.C. provincial campaign workers should Google: Citizen BC - The Book of Broken Promises.

What I find particularly ominous and disturbing is the way the federal liberals are going out of their way to prop up gordon campbell's tainted regime: Major equalization payments from Ottawa with Bc as the chief recipient in a funding formula no one undrerstands, other than it being partly based on the disastrous economic failure of the BC liberals, especially from 2001 to 2003; highly suspicious campaigning and an ongoig habit of ballot-box stuffing, especially in ridings like Hedy Fry's in which almost no federal liberal campaign signs were present, yet which Fry won easily; disturbing ties between both the most reactionary federal liberals, and the most digusting Stephen Harper yes men and the BC liberals; THRE TRAIL OF GUILT AND COMPLICITY LEADING AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN TO ERIC BORNEMANN, AND STOPPING ABRUPTLY AS THE COPS CONTINUALLY TELL US THEY NEED MORE TIME: TIME FOR WHAT -FOR THE NEXT BC PROVINCIAL ELECTION TO BE OVER???!!!

Could it be possible, can anybody think of a way in which an independent investigation or even an audit could be forced? Perhaps some sort of private prosecution or petition or something.

It really sounds as if there must be a huge amount of evidence of wrongdoing in existence someplace just hidden from view by the pre-empted press and the nobbled oversight agencies in BC. How can that evidence be found and exposed to public scrutiny? It must be do-able. It must be done. But how?

Bailey: It's do-able, all right. What do we need, you ask?

1) One strong journalist who is determined to analyze every shred of every fact starting with the tips already been mentioned on this thread. Privately ask working journalists, off the record, for their views. Same with bureaucrats, the judiciary, police, others. Then ...

2) One strong publisher. The journalist will know how to get the story into the right hands. It'll be a big story -- serialized -- hitting the streets about May 1, 2005, bringing sensational success to publisher, journalist, and to a grateful British Columbia.

You bet it's do-able.

Meantime, at grass roots level, keep the topic alive. Ask around. Explain. Keep notes. Keep at it. The audit, the private prosecution, even the petition are all great suggestions.

I note that the BC LIARS and the judiciary and cops they seem to OWN lock, stock, and barrel have been successfull at probably postponing the Basi-Virk trial till AFTER the provincial election, no doubt, as the mere preliminary hearing which I believe just sets a date, is not till the end of March. If only The Tyee had THE BALLS to run an article on how The cops and most of the judges in BC seem to be in GORDON LIAR'S BACK POCKET. David Beers, you'll want to DELETE this post as it shows COURAGE, something you could look up in the dictionary. BC FED, GET OFF YOUR COLLECTIVE USELESS ASSES!!!!

I passed on this article out of sheer disgust at the people of BC for yawning about the fact that we've got big league corruption here. Now I've spent the whole day studying these fantastic posts. Thanks Bailey,lynn, allan, B.C. Mary, Lewis Swift, lead writer, Barbara McLintock and everybody else. The apathy regarding this huge story is still a bit of a mystery to me, but I tend to think major dailies have a massive amount of power in determining what is important and what is not. They construct a very persistent image of the world to the readers and front page glancers. I admit that for the last fifty years or so most of my world consisted of images and news gleaned from the pages of the Vancouver Sun, and I think that for most of that time, even under Southam, those images were quite representative of the real world. Of course, just as important as what they include is what they omit. I believe that Canwest is doing great harm here, and that the Aspers should be ashamed of themselves for their gluttony in buying up so much of the media. They are very "hands-on," in a way that Southam never was; internationally they have a very Frumian agenda. Why do they need THIS much power? Are they never satisfied? And now they're gearing up for another commuter daily...I think boycotting their print and television resources is the only way to go. Jeeze, they just got the Jerusalem Post, too. You'd think that would satisfy them for a while. Hopefully, the Senate hearings will have some strong recommendations about so much journalistic output in the hands of a single family. Failing that, maybe we should go to huge public protests in the streets.

What apathy, Truman?? Looks to me as if British Columbians are plenty riled up about the state of affairs here. No apathy here!

Btw, fly, Basi, Virk & Basi appeared in court on Jan. 28 (Victoria) and will appear in B.C. Supreme Court on March 11 (Vancouver). Things are unraveling quicker than expected, eh?

It'd be a very good thing if people could attend those hearings and give us, via Tyee, an honest, first-hand report of what they see and hear about these very important charges.

Truman, thanks for your comment and excellent point about the persistent image of the world that major dailies construct for readers and "front page glancers" through the power of carefully chosen words and influential images. There is tremendous power in that - to create or destroy and to distract or downplay (when it comes to the page on which a news item or image appears and also how it appears ( what has been selected as valuable) or if, as you say, it appears at all.

Geoff Plant, B.C.'s Attorney-General, said this after the murders of 4 RCMP:

"... the tragedy should dispel any doubts people might have about the dangerous nature of marijuana grow-operations.

"I think there is an attitude that is part of our culture in British Columbia that thinks that a grow-op is just your neighbor making a couple of bags of marijuana for some of his friends," Plant said in an interview at the legislature, shortly after learning of the deaths. "Whether that was ever true -- 20 or 30 years ago -- it's sure not true today."

- From Vancouver Sun, 3 March 2005.

After making that comment, Mr Plant apparently uprooted himself from the sheltered soil of the second strongest majority government anybody ever heard of. So I guess it will be fruitless pointing out that the Mounties went to that place in search of stolen property, and were shot by a madman who snuck up on them.

All the talk about marijuana is the most cynical and callous attempt to make political hay out of the great personal and national tragedy suffered by those four men and their families and friends.

Twenty plants is no kind of commercial gro-operation, it's a garden. The guy was reportedly a smoker. If he'd been growing twenty tobacco plants would we be calling for more heavily armed troops to take down gas stations and corner stores?

Shame on Mr. Plant and all those who would cheapen this sad loss by using it to promote partisan nonsense like this.

Hi Bailey: I wrote (above) while Mayerthorpe was at first reported to be a grow-op linked to organized crime and before it was known that there were 20 plants, not 20,000. So your point is well taken. Thanks.

But my concern isn't for marijuana production t all; rather, it centres upon the profoundly disturbing issue of how organized crime uses bushels of trafficking cash to distort the structure of our society.

If you have a minute, try googling the headline:

Gordon Campbell, Paul Martin, and Political Corruption

The silence surrounding the Basi, Virk, and Basi affair is looming larger than the charges against them. If the media and governments want to protect something, they can do it simply by maintaining silence.

Have you read up on the U.S. journalist, Gary Webb, who exposed the agreed-upon compliance between the best of the U.S. media, and C.I.A., the U.S. Justice Dept., and the organized drug traffickers, for the Iran-Contra funding?

Apart from the overthrow of Nicaragua's elected government, that caper destroyed thousands of lives in the U.S.A. as well. British Columbia could be looking at the same action plan. It's a huge problem.

I've never wanted to believe that CanWest has a deliberate agenda to quash the Basi story. But faith began to crumble last Friday, March 11, when Vancouver Sun and Victoria Times Colonist carried only a small inconsequential paragraph mentioning the Basi hearing. The Province carried a larger report but didn't actually mention whether Basi, Virk, or Basi were in court or if so, what THEY said or did.

March 11 in B.C. Supreme Court seemed to be some kind of dance-around with the Justice Patrick Dohm and the lawyers trying to agree upon whether or not to have trials for Basi, Virk & Basi. Heroically, Justice Dohm insisted he must have a trial date by May 27 ... yes right, that's 10 days after the B.C. Election. Who can help but wonder if there might be collusion between the judiciary and politicians.

Justice Dohm set a new dance-date (Hearing) for April Fool's Day. Again. How in-your-face is that!

One year ago, Justice Dohm did pretty much the same thing -- promised disclosure of the Search Warrants for April 1, 2004 and what happened? ... Paul Martin hit Vancouver at that precise moment and took centre stage to announce his surprise candidates: Dosanjh, Emerson, Chong.

Would the prime minister have risked bad publicity aimed at his own Liberal campaign team, in the middle of his election campaign? Not on your life. He must have known it was no risk at all.

Inescapable conclusion? On that very day -- April 1, 2004 -- the prime minister of canada
signaled (to me, at least) that he fully understood Liberal corruption and had it firmly under his personal control.

Did that make me feel better? Not. Does hearing that Justice Dohm will hold another non-event in exactly the same way again on April Fool's Day, 2005 make me feel better? Honestly, it makes me feel sick, there's so much at stake here; and so much being swept under the rug.

This is the same B.C. Supreme Court Associate Chief Justice Patrick Dohm who was vacationing in California when the RCMP
wanted authorization for Search Warrants allowing them to enter Premier Glen Clark's home ... and two policemen traveled to
California to obtain Justice Dohm's signature. Why Dohm, and no other judge -- for a block-headed witch-hunt over a back porch?

I've tried to believe, for 15 months (since the R.C.M.P. raided the B.C. Legislature) that the subject of organized crime is so vitally important that it transcends party politics. And that the R.C.M.P. and our judiciary will see things put right.

But now, I need some evidence of good faith from the judiciary and from Gordon Campbell's team.

Failing that, I think that we need to break this logjam by voting the current government out of office for a while, so as to get the investigations done.

March 11, 2005 - 16:17

Judge in B.C. legislature raid case pushes for early trial date

STEVE MERTL

VANCOUVER (CP) - The judge hearing corruption charges against two former B.C. government ministerial aides pressed both sides Friday to come up with the earliest possible trial date.

Meanwhile, lawyers for several media outlets pushed for the Crown to unseal another series of documents used to obtain search warrants in the politically charged case, just as the Liberal government heads into a re-election campaign.

Associate Chief Justice Patrick Dohm of B.C. Supreme Court set May 27 as the date when he wants to hear "intelligent answers" about how long a trial might take and when the Crown and defence would be ready to proceed.

Lead prosecutor Bill Berardino told Dohm he was thinking the trial might begin late next January or early February. But Dohm indicated he wants the complex case to go ahead earlier than next year.

David Basi and Bobby Virk are charged with fraud, breach of trust and influence-peddling related to the provincial Liberal government's privatization of B.C. Rail.

Basi was a ministerial aide to former finance minister Gary Collins, now head of a small airline, and Virk held the same job in former transportation minister Judith Reid's office.

David Basi's cousin, Aneal Basi, who also held a post in the Transportation Ministry, is charged with two counts of money laundering.

Thanks. I think that several sources of reluctance are likely at work. The Aspers are firmly committed to the new Conservativism that's masquerading as Liberalism everywhere. Even without outright complicity, they will not like seeing corruption exposed among their darlings.

Second, every organisation large enough will mirror the attitudes of society. The RCMP are no exception. The 'Liberal' cops seeking out the 'Liberal' judge to issue their bogus warrents is no surprise. Conspiritors, well, conspire.

If the three plead guilty, there will be no trial. No exposure of truth, no justice. Just the usual human sacrifices followed by business as usual.

If the Liberals are turfed out, as seems likely in light of BC political history lately, don't look for much from their successors. Nobody will want the lead story in their first term to be about their opponents, even their opponents trials.

BC is in a very dangerous position, Canada too. We desperately need repairs to our whole system. Not reform, not upgrade, just repair. The problems we are having all stem from lack of principle or a sense of civic duty by our guardian class. For profit, they have dissassembled the machinery of honesty in government and thrown away several of the parts.

We need somebody with a true sense of obligation to Parliamentary Democracy to but it back in working order. Rebuild human rights legislation while we still have some. Restore proper funding and independence to the Auditor General. Make the books reflect the realities of our taxes, this includes the books of all who take tax money for any reason. This must be made transparent and easy. Bring our tax expenditures back to BC to replace, not increase our imports.

At the rate we're going, except for five hundred of the premier's closest friends, we will soon be mired in poverty so deep we'll have to buy German air pumps to pump air to us.

i think ur all gay

i think ur all gay