i'm not sure...could it be a dream...is it true...gary collins has quit!!!???

Good article, mr mcmartin about the most hidden, secret, and accountable pack of backstabbing liars in the province's history...

Will McMartin is not a conservative. He goes under that title, but everything I have ever heard or read from him is decidedly left wing.

Interesting article and why haven't the Can/west papers picked this up before? Sounds like a few wheels are getting wobbly in the old con game and Michael's note above about the finance minister's plan for a hasty departure just adds weight to that thought. Lewis, who's ministry office in the legislature was searched about this time last year?

This is an old NDP trick. Resign just before an election then get re-elected because you are giving the illusion that you are something that your not.

Yup, Collins is going to Harmony Air as CEO. I wonder if he'll be taking his assistants with him. Nothing like easy access to an airline.

One by one the possible replacements for Gordie are abandoning the quest.

who was to run against him?Is it Gregor Roberts?If so Librals will lose the seat anyways.Just like his budgets he seems to know a little more than he projects.just a thought

what do you call right wing??? Regardless he is raising real concerns and doing a dam good job of it, I would expect the same from him if the ndp were in power so I don't really care if he is right or left. In other words I think he is unbiased!

II know you guys love having a so called right winger agree with you but he's not. It's pretty simple, I was replying to the "good points and this from a conservative British Columbian". He is not a conservative. And Lewis I don't even need to respond to your immature back talk. I know 5 year olds who make more mature statements than you. I can see it now you'll call me a name, call the liberals a bad name, use a stat out of context then finish by slamming either me or the liberals again, then you’ll take your ball and go home. Gary Collins got this province back on track for working people and obviously Lewis you are not a working person. And no it’s not a prerequisite to be a union member in order to be a “working person”.

When a left winger puts out their argument you cheer, when a right wing perspective comes out you jeer and you expect me to believe that you want an unbiased opinion. Lets not be naïve, this is an extremely left wing site. Saying otherwise would be naive. I have no problem with it, that’s why I’m here, I enjoy debates and different perspectives. Just call a spade a spade.

I think that most of us know that this is a left wing site but that's not necessarily the issue here. I am as left wing as Castro but rarely will I cheer another for simply spouting off some left wing ideology. The issue is the simple fact that everything is right of centre, including the NDP for the most part. Newspapers, television, political parties, and citizens opinions have all shifted right. I see the NDP as being a somewhat watered down centrist party with a few lefty-leanings. We need a real left with bold and radical idea's and its just not there. That is why righties get jumped all over on this site, if you wanna be right just head over to canada.com and hate, hate, hate all that you want.

It's funny any disagreement and its hate etc...Why can't someone with different views from your own participate in a discussion on this website? After all what’s a discussion without differing points of view. And yes technically the NDP is center compared to Castro but if you call Liberals extreme right wingers you would have to label the NDP extreme left wingers. They are both in the middle of the political spectrum when compared to the extreme. And I do see alot of cheering for awful ideas from the left just to support the left as I do the same for the right. Let's be honest here. But in the end that's what makes political discussions interesting.

try going to canada.com and as a leftie, they are down right nastie at least we try to debate an issue! I doubt all members of conservative parties are neo-cons like harper, making a normal conservative seem like a leftie! I have little if any respect for people who support gordo! How the hell did gary collins do anything for b.c. care to elaborate? Robbed the poor and working class to give to the rich is about all I have seen, then claw it all back with user fees, gone camping lately the experience cost twice what it used to for half the service!

if you make 100k a year or more gary is your man but I think that would be less then 20% of the population!

I didnt know that there was a law to keep cabinet stuff confidential for 15 years. Sounds really suspect. After all, they could be skinning a guy in there to get his agreement. And he is not allowed to say why he agreed? A little bit loopy. The passage below reminds me of Benito, one leader one voice mussolini. You really have got to be careful about allowing history to repeat itself. (Actually Benito was skilled at propaganda and using the media to diliver his message. Perhaps history IS repeating!). I like a good open argument in government! It means we are safe! "prior to the cabinet arriving at a policy decision, government ministers are expected to participate in ‘a full and frank’ discussion, examining all aspects of the issue at hand. Not surprisingly, disagreements often arise as some ministers prefer one course of action, while others opt for another, or several others. But once a consensus has been reached and a decision made, all disagreements are ended. The government must speak with one voice".

Very good discussions going on in this thread…left-wing, right-wing, centrist wannabes, but how about the true Left-wing party that you all seem to avoid mentioning? I speak of the Communist Party of Canada (BC); not ML, nor Steve Harper’s CPC, but the real thing! You should visit their web-site, or better still get a subscription to their fantastic bi-monthly paper, “People’s Voice” and read of their position on the current situation in B.C. from a real left-wing perspective. This party was a force to be reckoned with in B.C. and also across Canada, though in another time frame; however, the conditions which existed then, are now re-appearing….So there!…lefties, righties, centrists…have your best shot at me!

Right jim, gary collins got the province on track by losing 22,600 fulltime jobs last year, as reported in the saturday before last saturday's vancouver sun. And he was way, way, ahead of working people in bc, gary KNEW they'd rather have 23,000 PART- TIME LOW PAYING JOBS, MANY LASTING LESS THAN A WEEK, RATHER THAN 22,600 HIGH PAYING FULL TIME JOBS! Gary also helped out working people A WHOLE lot when he snatched back their "taxcut" in user fees, increased sales tax, medical premiunm increases, and BY BEING PART OF A GOVE$NMENT THAT HAS DONE ITS BEST TO GIVE AWAY EVERY DECENTLY PAYING UNION AND NONUNION JOB IN THE PROVINCE, RIGHT, JIMMY, DUHHHHHHHH! EQUALIZATION PAYMENTS ARE GIVEN ONLT TO HAVE-NOT PROVINCES, LIKE BC UNDER THE BC BACKSTABBERS.

left right centre the arshole is gone and that is what counts fellows,and you bet they see the ship taking on water,and are baling,thank god for that ,now if a log dropped on the main guys head we could be thankfull. cheers ED

left right centre the arshole is gone and that is what counts fellows,and you bet they see the ship taking on water,and are baling,thank god for that ,now if a log dropped on the main guys head we could be thankfull. cheers ED

Ontario Progressive Conservatives, Alberta Socreds and the BC Socreds under WAC Bennett (and *not* Bill Bennett) would be governments that were moderate conservative governments. There were not perfect and they were not left-wing, but there were not out to destroy unions, reduce salaries, remove a wide range of services, close hospitals, reduce taxes, remove rental tenancy laws, destroy environmental laws, etc. They were conservatives, but they were not neo-conservatives. The BC LIberals are not liberals at all; they are the extreme right wing. The NDP is the middle ground: they are not out to destroy free enterprise. They are social democrats. Yes they do believe that government has a role to play in running the province with fiscal prudence and taking care of the weakest members of our society. The BC Liberals are in the same camp as Margaret Thatcher who said that "There is no such thing as society."

Gary Collins belongs in the private sector. You cannot run government as if it was a business while selling off all of the government services at fire-sale prices.

I did not even get the chance to remind anyone of the temper tantrums that Gary Collins used to have when Gordon Wilson was the leader of the BC Liberals. Judy Tyabji's first book paints a picture of the Gary Collins who was probably one of the most instrumental in the overthrow of Gordon Wilson to make way for his buddy Gordon Campbell.

Correction above: make that Progressive Conservatives in Ontario until Frank Miller and certainly not including Mike Harris.

Great comment, Sue. Tyabji's books, both of them, are really interesting to read in light of all that has transpired since.

so long gary...you weasel..my wife will miss your voice....

good comment Sue. collins is definately an extreme neo-con willing to stab his boss in the back, surprised he didn't turn on gordo but then I guess gordo is his kinda guy!

Just saw on the late news that the new minister of finance is going to be colin hansen, the new health minister shirley bond: ida chong replaces shirley bond as minister of education. Gary Collins did not look very happy, nor did the premier. Hansen's already blown his credibility for helping campbell gut health care, shirley bond doesn't even have a bachelor of arts, and she's going to be running the health system? Ida chong, I don't know much about. Carol James says this is bad news for campbell. Another interesting point, gary collins was chairman of gordon campbell's reelection campaign...who's going to fight that uphill battle now, maybe THAT'S why collins left...

Dave A., welcome and may I say I am pleased to read someone from the far end in the Tyee. You'll be a great balance to some of the others who have started to park here professing to be just curious George's, but who then try desperately to negate stories and facts they don't want to read by writing loud and silly things about how terrible the NDP are. You might get a few cranks in here who think you're Cuban or something, given your political preferences, but don't worry. We just laugh at them or bait them a bit and then sit back and read. I'm interested in hearing your take on some of the events in this province of recent, and by the way, that's when you should anticipate the response.

As an Ontario person, Sue, you'll know (if you're of a certain age) that the Tory governments of Leslie Frost, John Robarts and Bill Davis conducted themselves not as ideologues but more as public trustees charged with what they viewed as the considerable responsibility of government. Political agendas were simply not that evident. Egos were subdued. Enrichment scandals were few. Today, the notion that representation and trusteeship are privileges bestowed upon members of a legislature, or the notion that job satisfaction--perhaps even re-election--might constitute the rewards for the pursuit of considerate and orderly government, are not just old-fashioned notions but notions totally beyond our politicos' ken. They--even (gasp!) the NDP--serve to serve themselves. So we have, at the moment, the odious Gordo, the opportunistic Gary, the sycophants of the cabinet and the accolytes of the caucus sneering their way through the interegnum until May day's inevitable return. While McMartin amuses us with tales of anecdotal cabinet, and while pinko fervents shriek their tiresome shrieks, none can be bothered to put it to our flacid members that they fulfil the trust obligations bestowed upon them by the electorate. So, vent, you stalwarts, but don't get off your butts. Reboot, revile and fume. Society owes you.

Thanks Carlos Bud, you have proven that intelligent life still exists at the Tyee. - and Jim who wrote "And Lewis I don't even need to respond to your immature back talk. I know 5 year olds who make more mature statements than you". --Point taken.

I think Collins has his work cut out for him in the real world of economics, and predict the airline will last no more than two years, (depending on how much good money the owner doesn't mind throwing away.) If he thinks politics is cutthroat he will be in for an unpleasant surprise this morning. One thing I am quite certain of is that he doesn't have nearly enough experience to run an airline. (rinky-dink or not). --- I wonder what Mr. Lahey the trucking owner thinks about the direction of the GDP and the contingency fund now, he might notice that the Canadian dollar has dropped nearly a nickel since the first of this month.

I don't know. I have a feeling that there is something deep going on in the Campbell government. I think the cracks are showing as some MLA's face uphill battles to get re-elected. But, I don't think the NDP, at this time, will do a better job. For now, the course has been established and it needs to be stayed if we want some success from these last four years of torture. Thank you

hard to keep an iron fist on such a broad coalition as gordo put together maybe he is starting to lose control?

note to editor: should be "principles of cabinet solidarity" not "principals"

Perhaps Mr. Collins is the first of the rats to desert the sinking ship. Think he'd be able to pick up this prime piece of job beef in another four years? Keep your eyes peeled for more governmental dashes into the corporate world.

Very good article, Will. For those of us who have slept a bit more restlessly over the past three years, who have at least tried to stay awake, the betrayals have become increasingly blatant, as you say, even the pretension of committment has been dropped. Character is interesting, in a leader, and in his or her government, one reflecting upon the other.

We don't need anymore of their deceptive, sugarplums dancing in our heads. We simply do not believe. Many of us never did.

This government has perfected lying and betrayal into an art form. Fact is, they makes Scott Peterson look like an honest man.

The BC "Liberals" are not unlike the old carlot coalition of Social Credit, and it sure looks as though "somethin`s happennin here". At least when Gordon Wilson was Liberal Leader it was at least some version of Liberal. But that`s the problem isn`t it. The old Social Credit coalition saw that there no longer was any vehicle for the right, so they kind of stole a car ie: the BC Liberal party. So, if one considers selling off public wealth, massive privatization,and most of the kinds of things the Campbell Liberals have been doing as too extreme, along with a good dose of stretching the truth, it is a fairly easy observation to say that these aren`t "Liberals". In my humble opinion the NDP are much closer to actual "Liberal" concepts than the Campbell bunch, and far less extreme. It is time for a woman premier. It will have a calming effect on BC-something that we need.

just listened to a comment about collins record as finance minister by David Bond the Yale educated economist who was fired for criticizing the tax cuts Collins had brought in. Mr Bond is still not impressed with Collins saying that external forces are driving our economy not fiscal genius on the part of gordo and company! I agree with him, interest rates are driving housing construction and development, high oil and gas prices are driving exploration and the windfall from gas and oil royalties, thanks to the ndp btw! Mining exploration is partly because of the reduction in safe guards put in place to protect our environment mostly as a result of too many years of bad mining practice but the bottom line there is world prices! He said we still have to pay down the debt created by the tax cut! I seem to recall around 900 million of the 2 billion dollars collins has been bragging about is from transfer payments, more smoke and mirrors! Who can trust a government as secretive as this one. The business community loves them but then all the hard cuts helped them, they didn't get a wage cut or have contracts torn up, no lay offs for them as a direct result of gordo and his neo-con ways! Had they paid their fair share it would be a different story!

You know what would be fun? We should all speculate on what the next five months will bring to the BC legislature. Just air our guesses and then see whose guesses are best as events unfold between now and the election.

Chevy thinks something deep and secret is coming out. lewis thinks what he thinks, and is clearly expecting some kind of drama. The two resignations recently are both people associated by circumstances with the raid on the Leg, which is shortly to result in some kind of charges. The ads proclaiming BC as paradise are becoming more strident and desperate in tone, while people are stealing kettles from the Sally Ann, and Sally Ann say they think it's because of desperation on the streets.

So whaddya say? In the confusion and lack of trustworthy info, what's your guess? What do you think is going on? Who wants to go first?

Keeping on mind that it's all pure speculation. Guesses only, not accusations or other legally significant things.

i'll take the optomistic approach Bailey and say the collins' conscience (finally) got the best of him and he just couldn't lie anymore. perhaps his tax cuts, or a torn up contract, or increased user fees actually affected someone he cares about and for the first it occurred to him that the fascist ways of the bc neocon (read liberal) party have actually done way more harm than good. being campbell's minister of re-election propoganda must be the toughest job that exists in this province and he just couldn't hack it - or, he realized that the fall out from liberal policies would be too great for him to handle; better to save face now i guess. on the other hand: Is it coincidence that both he and the snake christie clark have resigned; two of gordo's prized sycophants? who knows eh?

I predict a North American meltdown over the next twenty-five years. This is much bigger than BC.

I predict we are going to see the current crisis of confidence within this troubled government blamed on the NDP numerous times over the next five months. Most of the blame will come from those who have been the problem for the past four years, Liberal MLAs who now fear going back to the voters, especially under the "leadership" of G. Campbell. I'd predict they will snip the anchor ropes, but it's too late for that.

The only prediction I am willing to make is this, gordo and company will spend a lot more of the taxpayers money trying to get re-elected and the canwest media will be only to happy to help him out! Oh yes and the tax payers will be very very quiet about something they would have raised hell about if it were the ndp, and rightfully so.

I predict you will all be unhappy no matter what any carry on as usual.

Visit the canwest canada.com post to see voters open up, not just a can, but a BARREL OF ASSWHUP on gary vcollins and bc neoliar economic policies at www.canada.com/vancouver/soundoff/view.html....Canwest is making desperate attempts to stack the carol james/gordon liar thread with rightwing posts, a tactic they often employ when public opinion against gordon backstabber becomes all too obvious. I reccomend that people who think leftwing posts are not being treated fairly go to the CRTC and complain...Interesting, canwest papers today report the Basi trial is soon to begin, and there's NO, oh, goodness gracious me, no connection whatever to collin's resignation, but we'll see won't we...either way this is NOT good news for gordon liar....

The Rats are leaving the ship. Slowly and quietly all the Fiberals who were touched By the BC Raid at the leg are leaving, Christy Clarke who's husband and brother's name both surfaced during that probe and were questioned by police, And now Gary , I guess he could not wait 5 months to take the job, give me a break. More time with Family as the CEO of an airline. LOL. He just took 3 months off as a X Mas break with the BC LIBs, No one leaves 5 months before an election, Harmony airlines are huge contributors to the BC Libs and I'm sure they could wait 5 months, Yea it couldn't be the David Bassi trial coming up. Maybe his name will service etc, just maybe , you know he was only Mr Collins exec assistant in his office. Get ready for the sh... To hit the fan. This is no porch renovation folks.

Lewis, I have to ask. Why do you bother logging onto the canada.com site?

Jean Binette, 12/15/2004 4:37:55 AM, writes: Thanks Carlos Bud, you have proven that intelligent life still exists at the Tyee. - and Jim who wrote "And Lewis I don't even need to respond to your immature back talk. I know 5 year olds who make more mature statements than you". -- .

binny's back with his usual nonsense, actually binny I am very happy just happen to also be very pissed at gordo for selling b.c. to american firms one little piece at a time, this I will never forgive him for. Not if I live to be 100! I also blame collins for this! Will be interesting to see how much money collins new boss gave to the libs before the last electiion!

Just a thought. The next election is going to be a squeaker. Too close to call right now. What may just push this election to the 'left' will be the 'surprise' seniors are going to get when they visit the drugstore and find just exactly what their medication is going to cost in 2005. A jump to $850 is going to swing a lot of votes to the party that deals with this issue. And letting the the voter make monthly payments to cover the deductable isn't going to cut it. This present government has made just too many stupid mistakes (drunk driving excluded) and no amount of BS is going to cover up their 'BOOBOOS'. Just too many voter blocs have been royally screwed for them to be bought off over the next few months. Too bad Gordon has the "Jean" disease of thinking he is king, lord and master.

Gordon Gamble's stint in BC has mirrored Mike Harris' (Ontario) Common Sense Revolution right down to the catch-phrases and road signs; dare I predict that good 'ol Gordo will resign in the New Year...

I hate to be a sour and pessimistic asshole but I predict a Fiberal minority or very slim majority out of the next election. Sorry but I just don't see Carole James and the current slate as being anything that will influence John and Jane publics mind by too terribly much. I just hope someone from the Communist Party or Rhino Party runs in my riding. At least then I'll make the effort to vote.

I believe that Collins left politics for the thing he loves most: money. If he was one to keep his commitments and it was all about his family, he would have resigned as Finance Minister and sat as a backbencher so that his riding was represented in the next sitting of the legislature. Yes, Gary, you can go out and buy the big house now.

seems funny doesn't it mr collins resigns one day and the lots of charges announced the next day involving key goverment people? what the hell is going on in the house in victoria?!, the commercials seem to be ever constant, and the most open government in bc is the most secretive and seemingly corrupt our mla's seem bored but then its like that when your just a drone and have abdicated any responsibilty to your constituants, one question.. any more of you leaving? one can only hope

Gary Collins may have left because he knew that Gordon Campbell would never resign and Collins would never become premier of B.C.

I still think Mr Lahtey was Gary Collins. The message was exactly the same. There was a high level of knowledge and competitiveness there that made him sound like he was steeped in the propaganda and could not be someone very involved in running a trucking business.

Jean Binette, 12/15/2004 5:22:46 AM, writes: I think Collins has his work cut out for him in the real world of economics, and predict the airline will last no more than two years, (depending on how much good money the owner doesn't mind throwing away.) If he thinks politics is cutthroat he will be in for an unpleasant surprise this morning. One thing I am quite certain of is that he doesn't have nearly enough experience to run an airline. (rinky-dink or not). --- I wonder what Mr. Lahey the trucking owner thinks about the direction of the GDP and the contingency fund now, he might notice that the Canadian dollar has dropped nearly a nickel since the first of this month.

I think Collins left politics because he came to the realization that he was in well over his head in finance and predict Dr. Ho will soon become Dr. No. - The press release reads "I have been impressed with Mr. Collins' record as BC's Finance Minister and his work building a strong and vibrant provincial economy," said Dr. David K. Ho, Chairman of Harmony Airways. "Mr. Collins' skills and experience will serve Harmony well as we continue to grow our company," Dr. Ho said. "I'm very excited about joining Harmony Airways and I look forward to working with our employees and partners as we continue to expand and win new customers," Collins said. Mr. Collins has served as British Columbia's Minister of Finance since June 2001 and has been a Member of the BC Legislature since 1991. Before entering public life, Mr. Collins was also a commercial pilot and flight instructor. Harmony Airways, formerly known as HMY Airways, is an industry leader in full-service, competitive air travel. Aimed at exceeding customer expectations, Harmony provides a full meal service, complimentary wine, comfortable leg room and free in-flight movies aboard its Boeing 757 aircraft.

Readers might have noticed that in the televised Canwest special from the cockpit of one of the THREE airplanes operated by Harmony air (most likely on lease), that Dr. Ho sat in the command seat, (right hand on the power.) I suppose some would explain that small anomaly by saying, "but Collins but was in the flight instructor's seat". However Dr. Ho should know Collins is no pilot, and is not qualified to fly the airplane. Moreover, he has barely worked in the industry. My point don't move over Max (Ward) - you're in no danger, it's only a publicity stunt.

By way of further explanation - it generally takes two or three years before a student pilot gets his commercial pilots licence and gains sufficient instrument and type endorsements to even bother putting in a job application to an airline or bush operator. (Forestry experience requirements are stringent, and no reputable bush operator hires low-time drivers, so it is common practice for inexperienced low-time pilots to obtain instructor ratings in order to build their experience while looking for a real flying job.) At the tender age age 26 or thereabouts, and facing fierce competition with little flight experience under his belt, it is most likely Collins couldn't get an airline job and that's why he turned to politics.

On the other hand I would not hesitate for an instant to fly Harmony to any destination on the route (Maui would be my favorite), the airplanes are among the best in the world, look excellently maintained and most likely are driven by the world's best pilots and I'm sure the service is simply marvelous. (and I would definitely look forward to a free bag of gold at the end of each flight) - I just hope Dr. Ho hasn't bought himself a pig in a poke who will quit without giving proper notice.

Care to comment? Mr. Lehay -

Gary Collins said on CKNW that he still intends to work on the team to re-elect Gordo. Money does seem to be the driving force in his decision. Now he is working two jobs, and screw the family.

Sue Clark, I think there is much validity in your Lahey-Colins link. I had been waiting for the former Albertan trucking magnate to bite into this story given his amazing loyalty to Campbell and Co. I've been amazed since Lahey told us he was a political know-nothing before coming to BC, yet he could rhyme off the most obscure details of eonomics and politics in B.C, better than most policy wonks who claim a professional bent. Oh well, if that's the case then we can anticipate a little more harmony in these posts. ***I do want to acknowlege that the profilic Jean Binette is starting to sound rational, if still obnoxiously repetitive. But then, one step at a time.

don't get your hopes up allan. -

lehay = ideaology run amuck. Collins new boss donated over 100k to the b.c. libs last year now the finance minister is working for him? All the talking media heads are saying oh yes we understand why gary would want to spend more time with his family, poor guy nod nod, I am beginning to wonder if there is more to come?

Vick, is isn't if, but when and frankly there's lots already. I'm just anxious for police to connect the dots and I would hope they have a sense of fairness and let the public have a peak at some of the mess before these dots run for re-election or should I say some of these dots.

Don't waste your breath allan, it will get you nowhere. You should know it would take years just to get near zero results. (See Nanaimo Commonwealth Society for example). Leave the baseless allegations to the media, who are often experts in getting the wrong story out. Vick - What evidence is there of a 100k donation and what does it mean? I'm not certain of this, but I think Pattison many have donated to the NDP in 1996, he was definitely in support of Clark at the time.

I predict there won't be much more to come before the election. Most of the dots will remain unconnected, other than the big dot, make that, the big zero, will resign...

And on another note, I find it interesting how little media coverage the Virk / Basi / ? BC Raids scandal is getting compared to a certain porch a few years ago...

As I recall it was the Premier himself who was involved with the criminals.

certainly taking long enough, I am not suggesting there is a conspiracey but jeez lets get on with it!

binny are you suggesting that the premier is a crook by association? LOL!

Please pay attention to the script. - "a certain porch"

And I don't like being called "binny". You don't see me calling you "vicki" do you?

I wrote; vick, please pay attention to the script - "a certain porch"

Binette, your Tourette's is acting up again. Time to get the psychiatrist to recalculate your dosage.

Don't worry about me - what's your particular problem?

As I have explained before mad fox, to slip in the ideas they least want to hear, to counteract the rightwing drool. I've managed to gun down several fascist posrers there already. Check out my post yesterday, on the dumpster diving thread "SOUND-OFF" thread in the province. Of course the tyee is far more eloquent, and reasoned a forum, leaving out the rightwing spammers; but all too often we are preaching to the converted, instead of converting the undecided. And there is so much censorship of the left in canwest media, when I get a good post in, it feels like more of a triumph. This is my view, others may differ...

Actually Lewis my sweet, we're all liberal plants - even the Coyote.

We're all plants? Holy moley! Well that could be where all our communication problems stem from. A need to get to the root of things. All these flowery arguments branching out, as you guys just bark at each other. Well, I'm no sap, this is the pits. I'm leaving.

I don't blame you for barking!

Funny how articulateyou are about aviation, jean, while you're an inarticulate, mentally-challenged, ethically impaired boob, about nearly everything else, how most of your posts are dim witted nonsequiters, except aviation, well they say everybody has one talent...yours is being a pain in the ass...

Just caught "Political Panel" on cbc tv at 6:45 tonight, with bill tielemann siiting in for moe sihota with rafe mair. Both tielemann and mair agree that collins' resignation is NOT good news for gordon backstabber, that something is lurking, looming just under the surface of things waiting to be revealed; both suggest that ANOTHER resignation may soon be in the works, with the name GEOFF PLANT being mentioned by both. Both agree that shirley bond is an ABYSMAL choice for health minister, because of her involvement with and promotion of Walls, the premier's in law, who now faces criminal charges, whether concerning his car dealership, or about milking the ministry of children and families as a CASH COW, I'm unsure. Both agree that bond lacks the qualifications for the job of health minister, but were too polite to use words such as "under educated, not intelligent enough, or, morally compromised." Yes, it's going to be a SHORT new era, stay tuned for up coming media announcements...

I'm sorry you feel that way my darling Desiree.

Jean, I LOVE your two posts immediately above, let me say that both reflect the highest degree of both intelligence and ethics, I've EVER seen you display...

Weak, jean, weak...

Ok my backstabbing pussylove, you can have the last word.

Sue Clark, I'm with you on the Collins - Mr.Lahey connection. I notice they always use giveaway names that stereotype the left, the way they see us. So we have them assuming names like Bongo, groovypippin and Mr. Lahey from the Trailer Park Boys.

Mr. Binette is right(amazingly) that the 11pm news was a Canwest special last night. Their crack investigative reporter, Keith Baldry, was right there in the cockpit so to speak with Gary Collins. The slant of this little special was truly stunning - the burning question by Canwest was: Should we have paid Collins more money so he would have stayed? Are we losing our best ones in government because we're not paying them enough?

Included in the footage was a BC Business Council ad with all BC's elite present... then a few words from the premier, of course, (looking like it was the end of a long night or maybe the beginning of one) on how tough it is to be a politican these days... then an interview with Jimmy Pattison who agreed that if we want to keep people of Collins "calibre", we should pay them more.

So...we have the equating of government cabinet ministers with CEO's, running a business venture called BC,(their business venture) and rewarded with very high wages in order to prevent private companies like Harmony from snapping them up! That was the take by Canwest. Now isn't that the burning question we wanted answered? Isn't that investigative reporting at it's best? So much in the Collins story to choose from and they chose that angle, not surprising, but really pathetic.

Here are some less-than delightful lies from the mouth of Gary Collins:

"Did Tommy Douglas ever table a fake budget? Did Allan Blakeney ever lie to the people of his province? Did any NDP government anywhere ever stoop this low?"

The BC Liberals have sunk much lower than anything the NDP has ever done. Increasing many forms of taxes and user fees for the midddle class and poor to pay for a tax cut for the rich. There was no fudged budget. The stupid "fudgit budget" law suit that was launched by the BC Liberals was thrown out of court 5 years ago. It was total nonsense.

You say a lie enough times will it ever become the truth? NO! The BC Liberals have been far worse liers than anything we have or would ever see from the NDP. At $35,000 per television commercial packed with lies that we are paying for!! It is time to turf these sleeze balls from office.

Yes, Lynn, I saw the silly 'spin' being spewed by Canwest. Desperate people do desperate things. I suggest that Mr. Collins in his wildest dreams would never have pulled down a a salary in excess of $100,000 (not to mention the thousands of dollars worth of additional perks and expenses charged to the taxpayers that are heaped upon his basic salary) based on his slim experience as a flight instructor at a small college. To even suggest that he had any professional impact on the Finance Ministry is also silly. Chartered Accountants must be splitting their sides with laughter at the thought. He DID hold power and influence through his appointment to Cabinet (remember he wasn't elected as a Minister nor chosen for his 'credentials' (!) none of them are) Collins was chosen because he is part of the small group of Campbell insiders such as Patrick Kinsella the other Co-Chairman (originally a Conservative from Ontario) who is close to the Chairman of the Olympics, Mr. Poole who is pulling strings on Campbell. Was it a coincidence that Collins was in charge of the adverstising for government and Mr. Kinsella openly raised funds through the major ad agencies? As was suggested above by Stuart, Rob and Vick there is so much more than the spin being spun. Cold, hard reality suggests that Mr. Collins would not survive another election placed in the context of his position regarding the cast of characters involved in the Raid on the Leg. Gregar Robertson would have whooped him especially with talk of more criminal charges before the end of the year. The real question that the media should be investigating is why would a man of Mr. Ho's intellect and financial wherewithall hire Mr. Collins a flight instructor, as CEO as he leaps from his Ministerial perch? Me thinks there is another reason other than his 'qualifications' that won him the prize. Follow the money. Perhaps rather than the suggestion that our politicians are so dreadfully underpaid; it is perhaps more important to ask and perhaps demand that persons seeking public office meet certain ethical standards and other abilities that would directly benefit the people of British Columbia through THEIR GOVERNMENT DOLLARS/SERVICES. Personally, I believe Mr. Colins and most of elected colleagues have been extremely fortunate to have pulled down the salaries they have, given their level of abilities.

One more link: I believe the Chairman of Harmony Airlines also owns the Arbutus Club where, surprise ,surprise, Mr. Furlong was employed prior to winning his high flying post with the Vancouver Olympic Committee. Follow the money.

Thanks for saying I'm "amazing" Lynn, I'll point that out to my wife. However, all of the innuendo in the last three posts is about as useful as a "Public Eye" Roving Reporter Sean Holman scoop, (the latest darling of Canwest Media "proudly holding liberals accountable" that you and others love to hate). Collins deserves stinging rebuke and should consider himself lucky indeed, as should others before him who took the money and ran. Rafe Mair comes to mind.

As far as incompetent appointments go, there is no doubt in my mind that Collins was not the man for the job. But you might rewind yourself to former New Democrat Attorney General Colin Gableman. If he had actually been a lawyer he would have had the common sense not to get caught lying in an affidavit.

But what amazes me most about you and many of your supporters, is that despite your incessant complaining about corruption and graft in government, you remain quite willing to throw your vote behind former gang of six Limo driver Sihota, (not to mention a complete unknown).

That's a totally regressive and Stupich angle of attack that will only put British Columbia in a flat spin with no chance of recovery. - in my view.

I agree, Wonderwoman, I think there is a lot more brewing. Canwest's little special though seemed very much part of the plan of "deflection" from the real burning issue, "directed" even. It was so blatant, not surprising when it comes to Canwest, just funny, wag the doggish, starring Gary Collins , that poor underpaid actor/pilot, co-starring (or co-piloting) Keith Baldrey, his faithful sidekick, surprise appearance by the mysterious Mr. Ho... I think you're right on the money when you say "follow the money."

Comrades, what a pleasure it is to find like-minded individuals on such a splendid website. I have a suggestion for you. Why spend your time and effort trying to convert a cold, soggy place like BC to socialism when you could move here and embrace our warm worker's paradise? In Cuba we are as far left as you would ever want to go (I think) and readily accept both temporary visitors and long-term residents. True revolutionaries like yourselves could find work here in the cane fields during our delightful harvest season. Hasta luego! Fidel

As a point of interest, rafe mair stated that harmony air only has three jets, and that collins is definitely NOT moving into a job anything like robert milton's at air canada. In other words, collins salary may be far lower than in government, although I,m not sure about this...if true, however, it definitely suggests collins is running from something...

I am SO pleased the gordon campbell government is moving towards genocidal policies like my own, starting with their policies regarding the disabled, the old, the sick, and the dying. Keep up the good work, gordon liar, we have a really WARM spot reserved for you here in hell, and OUR government's policies are a lot like your own, bring LOTS of ice, and we'll be seeing ALL your mlas and cabinet ministers too, especially gary, geoff, and coell....heh, heh,

Open cabinet? My question would be how does a Seventeen Billion Dollar Liberal addition to the Provincial Debt in four years translate to a balanced budget? And just remember Eight Billion Dollars of that debt went directly to the top five percent of British Columbia's population.

well said burgess, debt is like a second mortgage to these fine stewards of spin. Debt financing present expenses is folly!

As for the F. Castro impersonator, does Bill 37 toll any bells for you? (A major Tyee story.) Bill 37 set a new low in child labour standards for Canada... right here in this fair province of BC... brought in by the present BCliberal government. Applauded by them. Their idea, no one else's. One of their more delightful ones don't you think?! I, mean who needs a childhood, anyway? So, you see, F. Castro, the real cane fields are now in BC, courtesy of Gordo. (Simply amazing, huh? You don't have to travel anywhere!)Especially, if you're only twelve years old.

Lynn, thank you for your support. I was not aware of this. It sounds like yet another reason for you to emigrate to our beautiful caribbean island. Fidel

that burgess he's so smart...

We are not fighting for a communist revolution here, F Castro; we just want moderation in place of extreme right-wing abuse. The attack on moderation is the real problem here. The BC Liberals have not been a responsible government. Premier Bill Davis of Ontario, who used public opionion polls to decide what to do, did quite well. BC Liberals seem to just ignore all forms of feedback in their pursuit of their ideological destruction of BC. A second term of BC Liberals will allow them to further dismantle BC institutions and provide increased "tax relief" to the top 5% of earners. The bottom earners will pay more for everything. Union workers both private and public sector will continue to have their incomes stunted if not reduced. The attack on unions will continue. Are unions as evil as Gordon Campbell is telling us? Who is the evil one here? Also, did you notice that the evil character from the Lemony Snicket movie looks just like Gary Collins?

I have criticised Jimmy Pattison, Mr bogus "tyee editor", but it was not by calling him names. Unless you work for EA, resistance is not futile.

Pattison? Let's see.... He, and his companies 'donate' huge sums to the Libs, then somebody decides we really need to sell him the Coquihalla Highway, and the right to tax motorists at will without regulation and forever. Only stopped by the people inconveniently learning the truth and howling their protests.

How would you characterise that, Senor Castro?

Follow the money, what a good idea. Let's start with money coming in to campaigns and parties, then move to contracts and property let to private interests and compare the lists. Then check on offshore accounts controlled by officials, especially secret ones. I'll volunteer to check Maui for you if you send me a ticket. Bet there's some interesting stuff there.

Sue - What makes you think that you will find it (moderation) by replacing government with extreme left wing New Democratic abuse? Do you think all liberals are Demigods? or is it just Premier Campbell you see as bearing the mark 666.

Bailey, I thought you had barked your last and were "outta" here. You should know that Pattison didn't donate "huge" amounts of money to the Liberals, because if there was one businessman who the Premier isn't thrilled about in BC it would be Pattison, and he's most likely the single reason the Coquihalla sale didn't fly (no one could stomach the possibility of handing toll money over to Glen who was originally slated for a toll booth job. (he turned out to be a better cabin boy than originally thought). However, if your truly interested in following displaced money, then I would suggest you book a trip to the Cayman's to check the last era deposits.

Will either of you be supporting the disgraced lawyer Sihota and his pal Hairy Lali? Are they what you describe as the moderate left?

By the way Bailey, it seems Mr. Lahey wasn't such a "stand-up" guy after all.

Hola, just back from the beach and apparently missed a lively discussion. There were a few comments addressed to me. It seems a number of you are stressed out (that is correct usage, si?) about your fellow citizens who earn more money than yourselves. They are referred to as the top 5%, those earning over $100,000.00 and so forth. I can understand your envy and bitterness and am prepared to offer a solution. Move to Cuba where your chances of running into people with incomes like that are very remote. Think how this will reduce the stress in your lives! Hasta luego. Fidel

Good response, Jean. I was talking about the characterisation of unions as evil. You are the one calling the BC Liberals evil. The BC Liberals are Demigods? Uh, no, for the reason that they are as clever as a sack of rocks, but they do have power because they are not bothered by their own extremely dishonest lying.

Calling the NDP extreme left-wing *is* an attack on moderation. Replacing the BC Liberals with the NDP will be moving toward moderation. The BC Liberals are doing their best to make life more miserable for 80% of the people of BC.

As I have said before, Jean, I like that you disagree, listen and ask questions. I felt that Mr Lahey was far too overpowering with lies and nonsense that he overconfidently spouted.

The Liberals have lost all credibility; everything they say is questionable. How can we trust anything they say?

Bogus Castro: The irony is that your BCliberals have created the very thing you fear the most, you are the real dictators now, you have become your own worst fear. This has been the most arrogant government in the history of this province. We have a growing third world situation in BC now, a few very rich guys, and an increasing amount of the poor, the homeless and children living in poverty.

(Just a note: Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau, judged by the people of this country as one of our greatest Canadians and President Jimmy Carter (recently nominated for Nobel Peace Prize) both counted Fidel Castro as a personal friend, though they may not have always agreed with him. It is unlikely that either one of them would have said the same about Gordon Campbell. Kind of tells you who the real Liberals are these days. There are certainly none left in the BCliberal party.) Presently, your party is closer to the policies of Attila the Hun.

binny the castro angle is really quite brilliant in a rather childish way, lol! What has Moe done that is any where near the breach of promise commited by your favourite drunk? Details please!

There you go making baseless accusations again. However, I will be happy to accomodate you on that one vicki, but you will have to wait until tomorrow and I will need you to provide a little more detail about the breach of promise you refer to. (Also, Would you mind terribly if I tie him in with Hairy?)

I don't do a good Castro, who appears to be Lynn's fried friend.

And please vicki, try to restrain yourself that's the first time you've used the work "drunk" in the last half dozen posts or so. A record for sure.

Sadly, this post will probably cause you to repetitiously reproduce the obnoxious word 666 times over in your reply (if any).

And sue I said, "Do you think all liberals are Demigods? or is it just Premier Campbell..."

I didn't say anything remotely like your response. Sue wrote: - "Good response, Jean. I was talking about the characterisation of unions as evil. You are the one calling the BC Liberals evil. The BC Liberals are Demigods? Uh, no, for the reason that they are as clever as a sack of rocks, but they do have power because they are not bothered by their own extremely dishonest lying." I'll get back to you tomorrow with my thoughts about the "evil and devilishly clever BC Liberal sack of rocks if you like, but I would appreciate it if you would not twist my vocabulary to your own liking, I don't twist yours.

Is there anything you would like to add to convince me that because I am liberal I am automatically a BC liar? (in your view).

And sue I said, "Do you think all liberals are Demigods? or is it just Premier Campbell..."

I didn't say anything remotely like your response. Sue wrote: - "Good response, Jean. I was talking about the characterisation of unions as evil. You are the one calling the BC Liberals evil. The BC Liberals are Demigods? Uh, no, for the reason that they are as clever as a sack of rocks, but they do have power because they are not bothered by their own extremely dishonest lying."

I'll get back to you tomorrow with my thoughts about the "evil and devilishly clever BC Liberal sack of rocks if you like, but I would appreciate it if you would not twist my vocabulary to your own liking, I don't twist yours.

Is there anything you would like to add to convince me that because I am liberal I am automatically a BC liar? (in your view).

Bogus Castro, I'm curious. Do you think the real Castro is a person to ridicule? Not a lot of wealth in Cuba? Why is it that despite more than 40 years of outright hostility, innumerable failed assassination attempts, several really dumb invasion efforts that backfired, and economic blockades coming out your ying-yang, all by the most powerful nation in the world, Fidel Castro's Cuba is still providing the best public health care in the Caribean and probably all of Latin America? And why is it there more people in Cuba with university degrees as a percentage of its population than most countries around the globe? Now that you are back from the beach you can sit down and dry yourself behind your ears and then perhaps go and research my questions. If you know any South Americans they might be able to answer for you since so many of those former US puppet states are now trading and cooperating with that little island country that could - stand up to American aggression. And, you would be just amazed how many Canadians (and Americans) just love to winter in Cuba. But please don't spread that stuff about the Americans going to Cuba. Their country's leaders have made it illegal for freedom-loving Americans to travel to Cuba. Amazing what fear does.

And why are they braving shark infested waters just to get to Miami Beach?

For a free enterprise government in the caribean, that the bc backstabbers admire, go to Haiti, where children frequently have open running sores, where desperation is the norm, all brought about the triumph of the marketplace that little pimps like binette so admire. Maybe Mr Lahey, left jean, because, unlike yourself, he was smart to recognize his ass had just been KICKED about three dozen times. "Fidel," go to argentina, where the middle class are still banging pots and pans in the street over what gordon campbell-like, pimp for the rich, wisdom of the marketplace policies, have done their country, you ignorant little, backstabbing human stain....

I see you woke up with a bang again my ravishing one. Mr. Lahey left because he couldn't answer the question.

Maybe Schreck left because he realized his ass had been licked one too many times. You think? ...

hey binny how about this for a start, he lied about b.c. rail sold our personal information to an american company, got caught drinking and driving, gave a tax break of 1.5 billion to the richest 5% of b.c. residents who got what 40%, where do you fit in binny, and this while putting people on the street cutting benefits for seniors etc. Anyone earning less then 60k got scewed by the clawbacks and how much of our money is he spending on adds and lets not forget the 24+ million wasted on the web portal! The facts have been posted on here by many of the folks here who are opposed to bad government! Why do you have to wait until tommorow?

binny you have failed to answer most of the questions asked of you yet you are still here, are you paid to do this? I think that most of us here are motivated by our anger at your pal. I am pissed at him and the more people like you support him and the more money I see wasted on adds trying to get him re-elected the angrier I get!

Jean, I don't see you as a lier at all. I don't see you blindly accepting everything that the BC Liberals are saying. I was referring to the politicians and people like Mr Lahey, who are constantly spewing nonsense. If the BC Liberals had adopted a moderate stance instead of the extreme neo-conservative agenda, they would have been easily able to win many elections in a row.

"Why do you have to wait until tomorrow?" - Because vicki, I know you can't resist opening your mouth. For example you write "I think that most of us here are motivated by our anger at your pal"

Well, as I have stated many times over he's not my pal and I'm not defending him. I think you are just motivated by anger period, and I wouldn't presume for an instant that you know what motivates the others.

I previously wrote "There you go making baseless accusations again. However, I will be happy to accommodate you on that one vicki, but you will have to wait until tomorrow and I will need you to provide a little more detail about the breach of promise you refer to. (Also, Would you mind terribly if I tie him in with Hairy?)".

Anything further vicki?

had they done this Sue Clark they might have my vote, they have gone to far to the right! A good leader takes equal care of both big business and the less fortunate in our society providing security for all! I think Carol James will do this if given the opportunity! Being liberal binny you are part of the lies!

What happened to the principles behind political belief? If you vote liberal, there are tenets of liberalism you should believe in. If you are a true conservative, lack of extremism, tradition, conserving what is valuable... well, David Orchard comes to mind. Metamorphosis of viewpoints happen over time and history, but the problem is so many of these beliefs have been compromised and sold-out out largely out of self-interest. None of the parties are truly representative anymore. That's why being a BCliberal can be distilled down to whether or not you worship Big Business.

So I would hope that the NDP do not become afraid to continue to defend the vital importance of a strong social system...that in the end, moderation does not create mish-mash.

In writing this, though I often vote NDP, I realize, there are values in all political parties worth preserving and that the leaders who were faithful to those values we continue to admire over time, despite differences in political viewpoint. Again, it seems to me at least, that this is what Will McMartin's article is stressing, even poking fun at - the ever dwindling integrity of government.

Thank you Lynn - that certainly requires consideration, although it could be the principles behind political beliefs themselves that caused the current unbalanced state. i.e. enough green liberals etc.

Thank you for your input Lewis, No doubt you would be pleasantly surprised about how good I tasted compared to Schreck's loin chops. Might I suggest a light Chardoney with your meal?

I'm sure you two are very cute, and we all enjoy listening to yez, but....eww!

You miss my point, Jean, what I am trying to say is that if you put Pierre Trudeau, Lester Pearson, David Orchard, Joe Clark, Tommy Douglas and Ed Broadbent in a room together, there would be more that they would agree on than they would disagree on. Largely because there is a genuineness and a real questioning of what life is about on all their parts. Mulroney, Harper, Stockwell Day, Klein and Campbell are a different breed - their political beliefs are based on the power issues of money, religion, and big business, not on a philosophy of life. These are not deep thinkers. They have betrayed the real values of our country, sold us out, for superficial gain. And lewis swift's class action lawsuit idea is not at all off the mark.

If Carole James can articulate the feelings of many of us that this province's sovereignty has been put at serious risk by not only Gordon Campbell but by all those of his party who so willingly and blindly followed him, she will win the next election and I hope she does.

Lynn, I could go to sleep at night feeling quite secure with any of those first six people you mentioned running the country The latter five tend to give a person nightmares at any time of the day.

hey binny I am still waiting for answers you said " However, I will be happy to accomodate you on that one vicki, but you will have to wait until tomorrow" So where are your answers?

What began with an excellent informative column sadly descended among the respondents into a petty name-calling spat. Perhaps this is why nothing much good ever gets done in B.C., to quote a notable former party leader....

At least the left provides argument and facts, instead of just ignorantly squatting on a thread like binette, taking up space but providing no facts, no arguments, nothing but a continual stench of the mindless and over priveleged. Binette entered the Mike Harcourt thread by suggesting harcourt hang himself. At least disdabled people like myself, and so many others have both legitimate and personal reasons for attacking the drunk who stole an undeserved majority with the complicity of the media and the mindless support of dirty little pimps like binette, who would sell their own grandchildren for a nickle. Tell me one way in which these fatcats were ever harmed by harcourt and an ndp government. Did they miss any meals, did their children cry all night because they were hungry? If you don't like the deterioration of these threads since the tyee editor foolishly allowed binette to post again, after his cut-and-paste antics, and gross disrespect to all tyee posters ,regardless of their stripe, then take it up with the tyee editor. In the meantime, a lot of us are not in the mood to cut this backstabbing little pimp, who has yet to offer one coherent argument for his position, the slightest amount of slack...you try going mano-a-mano with these backstabbing little thugs sometime....

It would be Gordon Wilson who said something like " this is why nothing much ever gets done in B.C" during the debate with Harcourt and Rita Johnson. He used it to interupt heated discussion between Harcourt and Johnson. Wilson seemed like a really nice guy and this statement won him some votes, but I was not really convinced that there was any truth to it. It would be boring reading these columns without the disagreements with all of the colourful characters who add their comments.

It would be Gordon Wilson who said something like " this is why nothing much ever gets done in B.C" during the debate with Harcourt and Rita Johnson. He used it to interupt heated discussion between Harcourt and Johnson. Wilson seemed like a really nice guy and this statement won him some votes, but I was not really convinced that there was any truth to it.

It would be boring reading these columns without the disagreements with all of the colourful characters who add their comments. This would be like watching Gordon Campbell's open cabinet meetings, which is what we are supposed to be commenting on.

There are pockets of intelligent communication on this site until a "verbal swarming" takes place. The name calling should be left in the schoolyard, particularly the plays on people's names. Does that strengthen one's argument? Does that type of approach sway the undecided towards your view? I doubt it. I wonder at times if I am reading comments from adults. I find it anything but entertaining and certainly not colourful.

Does the word "opportunist" seem relevant in relation to Ferret Collins? We know he dropped the "farrel" when he dropped the wife..now he has another (bet she's younger) and , of course, now he has an heir, with another on the way... I've never warmed to him, he's struck me from the first as a show-off, like those kids in grade seven who just HAVE to blurt something out to get attention, even negative attention ... and if he does score a point his smug smirk made me want to use my wrinkled old mitt to slap his face, then send him to his room for a time-out. Of COURSE the fertilizer is about to hit the ventilation system!! We knew that when Crispy took a hurried hike. Not that any of us will be so gauche as to suggest having her brother and her hubby "named" in an investigation would in any way....I've heard twelve other ratlings have announced they won't be running in the next election...predictions? I predict Gordon will be gently eased from the helm and only after he is (hic) gone will any of the real crap come to light...and it is going to be crap. His wife divorced him, his assistant has had his kid, the money trail is convoluted and more than a bit slimey and he's ripe for a "nervous breakdown" any day. The scandal still hidden in the Ministry of Children and Families is going to have people screaming with fury; the most helpless souls in this province have been shafted terribly, money which should have gone to make them safe has been diverted, and when the details come out we will all froth and foam. The NDP has become moderate and will move ever more slowly to the right of centre and a new leftist party will emerge, hopefully with the CCF Manifesto held tightly and proudly in an upraised fist. So that's my predication(s). And even so, it's sad, really, to see someone who is a father use his kid as a bulwark behind which to hide. Poor little Tommy Collins, to be used as an excuse by a fleeing rodent. Another kid in B.C. who deserved better than he got!!

Philster, try reading the open cabinet meeting transcripts for entertainment. Compare with what you read here. Here is the URL:

http://www.prov.gov.bc.ca/prem/popt/cabinet/

Regurgitated: Let Mr. Lali apologize as he should. This isn't much of a story try as you might to make it one. If you want scandal start addressing the real ones like the Doug Walls scandal, the reckless farce that the BCliberals put the disabled through to qualify for benefits, and the treasonous selling off of the assets of this province. And as far as the race card goes, wasn't the signing up of federal Liberals centered around the same issue? Wasn't the raid on the legislature and the BCliberals own ministerial assistants such as Mr. Basi related to this very issue? (The little we know of it.) I hope you raise your voice just as loud in protest against the liberals if this turns out to be the case.

Was Gary Collins really divorced? I am not going to pay judgement on people who get divorced, but you have to see that Gary Collins played a primary role in the overthrow of Gordon Wilson based on a relatively bogus media scandal.

*If* Gary Collins is divorced and why did we not see a similar media scandal to the one that Collins launched against Gord Wilson because of his friendship with Judy Tyabji? As far as I am concerned, the median attack on Wilson and Tyabji was total nonsense. Please explain to me why their relationship was a scandal. They were both getting divorces and were in a platonic friendship relationship and whose concern would it have been if it was not platonic?

Why should we not be angry when we have this blatant hypocrisy from Gordon Campbell and his finance minister?

regurge, you have shown that Lali may not be a very good choice for a candidate, however if you are going to bring up race issues, the BC Liberals fall far short of the NDP.

The BC Liberals have just withdrawn funding for the community centre Buddy Programs which pairs up immigrant youths with Canadian youths with the goal of creating friendships and reducing the possibility of involvement in youth gangs. The BC Liberals claim that the funding is being put out for competitive private sector bidding and that the same program is offered by the YMCA (which is not true). See the latest issue of the Vancouver Courier.

ESL funding in schools has been cut back due to the BC Liberal policies.

The BC Liberals are all about money and power to men, white europeans and the wealthy. Kevin Kreuger stated angrily to social workers that "there is no such thing as women's issues" when he was presented with a list of issues the these socials workers felt had to be dealt with.

French immersion programs in Vancouver public schools are now taking students using a lottery system thanks to Gordon Campbell.