Apparently Mary Polak's mother-in-law is campaigning for the NDP candidate in Surrey-Panorama ridge( article in "have you had enough yet" site).

A lot of interesting articles on Mary Polak can be found with a google search. Here is one with a lot of interesting articles:

www.comoxvalley.com/cvpirc/education/education.asp

Besides the articles on Mary Polak, take a look at "MLA Krueger Outrages UCC Students" in which Krueger states that "there is no such thing as women's issues". This is what the Reform Party used to say.

The 1955 by-election you mention is a rather unique situation in any case. In the general election Gordon Gibson won Lillooet because he was the overwhelming #2 choice of everyone. He resigned to run in the by-election to make the by-election a referendum on Social Credit coruption (the Sommers scandal). The by-election was the first election to be held after various politicians conspired to make the electoral process less representative and did away with the preferential ballot. Gordon Gibson did well, but was narrowly beaten by the Socred in a four party race. The four-way voting splitting became a hallmark of the WAC Bennett era and allowed the Socreds to remain in power for way to many years

Scary mary!

McMartin writes "to conclude," then runs on for another 200 words while never telling us who the Liberal and NDP candidates are. An editor might help here.

"Regardless of who wins, the outcome could be historic."

Not likely.

I live to bold Tyee message boards.

Heeeeeheeeeeheeeeeheeeee!:)

Loser

I find it interesting that in a recent document from CUPE BC to its members it states that "during the decade between 1991 and 2001 the NDP government increased funing for healthcare every year". Maybe the union movement is forgetting that the NDP cut Pharmacare coverage by 10% in 1996, Minister Responsible Joy MacPhail. I urge all my union brothers and sister to consider the above statement and challenge their union leaders on their affiliations to the NDP I hope to be running for MLA in this election and if I do I will give union members the option of voting GREEN, I will be more union than the NDP candidate.

please tell me if i`m wrong but i`m really sick of of the liberal cheerleaders Bill Good and Jennifer Mathers congratulating the gov`t on the wisdom of exempting forest companies pst on production equipment and service. by the way these companies are a sizeable part of my customer base but there`s a limit to how much we should give away, no? any thoughts?

Will McMartin has prepared a very good analysis of by-elections over the past approximate 50-year period. However, I believe that the political climate for the Socred's by-election losses in 1984 and during the Vander Zalm era was somewhat different than today's. Lyle MacWilliam won Okanagan North in November, 1984 following the aftermath of the so-called economic depression and the ensuing upheaval with the Solidarity protests. Thereafter, the then antics of Vander Zalm and his social conservative views turned off a considerable portion of the middle-of-the-road constituency resulting in the losses of what could be identified as 4 right-of-centre seats. Fast forward and today we have the Liberals ahead by 6 points in a provincial Mustel poll, unusual by historical standards whereby the opposition usually holds this lead. If one was to compare this by-election to a previous by-election under a similar political and economic climate, the May, 1981 Kamloops by-election may be a bell-weather. The Green Party is another factor, unlike other by-elections, whereby they will probably take 2 votes from every former NDP supporter as opposed to 1 vote from every former Liberal supporter.

Well Dave we are practically giving away the timber to the large corps. like Weyerhauser so we might as well give them a deal on the gear as well.

Good for you Rockerbiff. And good luck in getting your leader and the rest of the right-wingers on side. While I appreciate the idea of a union activist running for office, I would caution you to keep your political back to the wall until you get the nomination and then ensure that Adrianne puts all her pro-worker promises in writing. I'm turning green already and I think it's because of something I just read. Excuse me for a minute.

Rockerbiff: Can't wait to hear the details of how you are going to be "more union". It's not like an overcoat you conveniently slip on or maybe it is... As allan says hope you've run this pro-union stance by "your union sister Adrienne" and let us know when you have it in writing.

Adriane is fully knowledgeable about union affiliations, in fact we walked side by side at the MayDay rally, me carrying my CUPE flag, Adriane carrying her GP sign.Lots of people interested in taking brochures and wondering why we were there :-)

--- Prediction--- The Greens and N.D.P. will cancel one another out on Oct 28, Thursday can't come fast enough, then listen to the whining ,bitching, squawking, coming from these two camps. ----love it ----love it-----

--- Prediction--- The Greens and N.D.P. will cancel one another out on Oct 28, Thursday can't come fast enough, then listen to the whining ,bitching, squawking, coming from these two camps. ----love it ----love it-----

After spending the day out in Surrey and watching the 6pm newcasts I certainly looks like the Liberals are pulling out all the stops for this by-election. Henry - sorry the polling says you are wrong but then again the BC Fed polling had the Libs and NDP at neck and neck and the Greens at 13.8%. There is no documented proof that the Greens take votes awayfrom just the NDP, we take votes away from a lot of Liberals also, according to our polling. There is an interesting right of centre battle going on with the BC Reform and the Conservative candidates, interesting to see how this pans out.

I am gratified to see that after two ostensibly pro-bc liberal pieces, mr mcmartin has written two pieces more crotical of the bc liars; thankyou also david beers for the ramsey safe streets article. I still contend however that the tyee's coverage on wards was deeply flawed and should have included articles well in advance of voting day, by the likes of tim louis and jim green. I must concede however that larry campbell and cope fumbled wards badly as well, in funding, and in presentation, especially the notoriously inept pizza flyer. What a pity, a yes decision on wards could have given the left in bc a tremendous boost.

Rocker Biff, I found your comments comparing the bc liberal and the ndp treatment of the disabled, on the will mcmartin thread comparing u.s. and bc elections simply heinous and totally misleading. The ndp cut pharmacare by 10%, admittedly a poor move; the bc liars cut home care, diet allowances, home support, and destroyed the possibility of many disabled persons even receiving benefits with the new 23 page disability form that most doctors don't even want to look at. If your support for unions is equal to your support for your fellow disabled, god help the unions under any government in which the greens play a part. But then, what else is to be expected from someone that thinks christy clark actually possesses a social conscience?

Lewis, Larry Campbell is no longer a "COPE" guy in my opinion. He could be part of the NPA for all I've seen of him. Comments like "losers" have turned me right off. In fact I'd rather have a right-wing mayor that was polite than this current loose cannon.

lewis - comparing the NDP's treatment and Liberals treatment of the disabled may well be heinous, however at the time the BC Coalition was expending a lot of energy on the NDP's attacks on people with disabilities. Whilst I recognise the issues you mention are important to you, you must recognise the 10% NDP cut to Pharmacare in 1996 went virtually unoticed and obviously un-remembered. And yes the two governments are comparable on their treatment of people with disabilities - only the NDP leaning slant in the BC Coalition stopped it from being a total war via the NoFault insurance issue

There are at LEAST a half dozen well documented suicides caused by the bc liar's 6 million dollar disability review which saved a pittance and detected about 3 cheats out of 16,000 or more people. Your defense of the bc liar's treatment of persons with disabilities and your attempt to equate it with what the ndp did is disgusting rocker biff, and you should be DEEPLY ashamed, ask ANY disabled person who does have a safe pension what they what they think of the bc liar's assault on the disabled and the response will be overwhelmingly negative...what amazing hypocrites many greens can be...

I too am disappointed in larry campbell, but I still hold his election far preferable to that of jennifer clark's -if we ever get a sustained combination of an npa/ gordon liar government we will see an assault on services in vancouver matching that of the assault by gordon liar on the province. Cope Lite and Cope Classic need very badly, in my opinion, to cooperate both with each other and the provincial ndp. Thanks for your comment, frank.

my comment to rocker biff directly above should of course read: "...ask ANY disabled person who does NOT have a job or a safe pension what they think of the bc liar's assault on the disabled and the response will be overwhelmingly negative..." as rocker biff is well aware

rockerbiff - You're active enough in CUPE 3338 to have been a delegate at the CUPE BC convention last May, right? When delegates overwhelmingly approved a resolution to support the NDP in the next provincial election, and over half of them signed up as new party members over the course of the weekend, I didn't hear anything from the convention floor or in the halls to indicate any kind of support for the Green Party within CUPE BC? Also, I've had the chance to speak with Adrienne Carr at a number of the events you've mentioned. Have you noticed the difference when she tells you what you want to hear, and when you tell her something she doesn't want to hear?

BTW, rockerbiff - If I see you at any action near Adrienne Carr with a CUPE flag, It will be taken from you, as your actions violate the constitution of our union. Your use of the flag is an attempt to communicate that CUPE supports the Green Party when you know full well that isn't the case.

You can bet that I well never vote liberal, ever in my life. You can't trust them to tell the truth about anything. They are the only party who would deny a parapalegic a power chair to save a buck.

You can bet that I well never vote liberal, ever in my life. You can't trust them to tell the truth about anything. They are the only party who would deny a parapalegic a power chair to save a buck.

I feel the same way about Larry Campbell as I do about Adrienne Carr. They always have one shoe out and one shoe in on issues - you never know where they really stand - and the "loser" comment by Campbell and the "we trust business to do the right thing" by Carr gave both their games away.

What I've found interesting, but not mentioned at all here, is the proposed Twinning of the Port Mann Bridge and building 8 lanes of Freeway, which is big time important to the people of Surrey. These people have watched their politicians (Mayor McCallum and Transport Minister Falcon being the two worst examples) backing the RAV line which does nothing for Surrey, while their own constituents fumed (in more ways than one) in decades long congestion. Now, amazingly, both Liberal and NDP are in bed together on this issue--but for different reasons--while the Greens are not. The Premier and his Transport Minister have pulled out all the stops (nearly $2 billion of cash suddenly on hand), in an attempt to distract Surrey-ites from the government's dismal record. The NDP, on the other hand, is also pandering to the neglected south-of-the-Fraser commuters, but at the same time conveniently ignoring their supposed commitment to environmental values. It is this kind of cynical, opportunistic crap from both ends of the political spectrum that has so many citizens ticked off. Speaking as an environmentalist, I hope a lot of the voters see through this hypocrisy and give the Greens their support.

As someone who lives in East Van, the lack of public transportation in this area of Surrey is appalling. Some areas have NO service after 6pm. The old interurban line is still in place and hardly ever used, a train like the West Coast express would be a better suggestion than the twinning of the bridge. Lynn - I have heard Larry Campbell say far worse things that "loser", specifically around some of the public debate around the 2010 decision. However, that being said I would not base my assumption of any person based on one comment, as I do not judge anyone based on a comment written in this forum. :-) The reason why you cannot determine how Adriane Carr will go on a specific issue is because you have already made your mind up about her. Nothing she says will change your mind. She could give the most profound statement on the issue that appeals to you and you would pass it off as pandering to that section of voters.That being said there are many more people out there that have not made their minds up about Adriane Carr and making a decision on who to vote for in 2005. Bear604 - the CUPE local at SFU is not a member of the CUPE BC. In fact in a refrendum taken a few weeks back we overwhelmingly voted against it. We are however a member of CUPE national and it is a CUPE national flag I have, which technically would be out your jurisdiction. However, I still invite you to give it a try next MayDay - please prove to me that everything I believe wrong with the union movement is true.

Bear604 - do you honestly believe that out of all the members of CUPE BC there is 100% support of the NDP ? I put it to you that there is NOT, however given the lack of democracy within CUPE BC the ability to recognise any other political entity other than the NDP is severely lacking.I did attend a BC Fed event and noticed that the BCNU put a motion on the floor to support other political entities other than the NDP and it recieved a standing ovation from many members, yet it was practically ignored by the chair. Democracy union style is not exactly what I would call a true democracy, although my guess is you will swear on a stack of bibles it is so.

Rockerbiff: I'm not basing my assumptions on Carr or Campbell on one remark - I just think those remarks are revealing of their true positions in "unscripted" moments. Larry Campbell deserves much credit for the safe injection sites but has failed otherwise in inspiring a sense of hope in the homeless. I have seen Carr during debates, when I was once interested in what the Greens had to say, to say that I was disappointed in her complete obliviousness to what it is like to be a worker in this province would be an understatement indeed . No matter what our job or profession, we are all workers and "trusting business to do the right thing " has profound and resounding implications to us all.

I agree the unscripted moments are an excellent judge of character, Gordo's Maui vacation stands as one great unscripted moment in my book. Let me assure you there are enough working people around Adriane Carr to let her know when she moves in the wrong direction on this issue - they may not all be union members, but they do work for a living.

rockerbiff - You're a little too busy anticipating "everything I believe wrong with the union movement" to get my point. Neither CUPE BC nor CUPE National (of which Local 3338 is affiliated) supports the Green Party. Obviously you do, but if you're taking out an official CUPE banner to do so, you're in violation of the Union's constitution, and the Union is more than within its jurisdiction to ask for the banner back. Actually, they're probably in bounds to ask for your CUPE card back as well. Of course not 100% of CUPE BC's membership supports the NDP - One, that isn't how representative democracy works, and two, they're not running around with CUPE banners trying to fool the public into thinking out union supports parties that aren't the NDP. What I do know is that the party has grown and changed since 2001, there's new leadership, there's a new commitment to listen, and as a result the party is growing beyond its traditional base. That's why CUPE BC delegates overwhelmingly endorsed the NDP. You can whine and bitch about whatever Glen Clark and Joy MacPhail did when they were in cabinet, but here's a news flash: NEITHER OF THEM ARE RUNNING IN 2005. I see the NDP like a pencil, some of us throw the pencil out when mistakes are made, some of us take a look at what's on the other end of the pencil.

bear604 - thank you for proving my point. I was at the MayDay rally with my CUPE hat on, I am a fully paid up dues paying member of CUPE, I am entitled to walk whomever I please during the MayDay. Please tell me which part of the CUPE constitution stops me from walking with certain people in such a parade ? Let me get this straight, according to you representative democracy works by CUPE BC endorsing the NDP and the NDP only ? If this were true then CUPE BC should be endorsing political parties according to their memberships, for example if 20% of CUPE BC members support the GP then 20% of the CUPE BC support should go to the Greens. But it doesn't work that way - its the NDP way or the highway. This is why union membership is falling, this is why union locals are having a hard time getting certified. And as for MacPhail and Clark not running in 2005, that maybe true, however thier proteges [clones], former staff are and I think you will find most voters will recognise this fact.

rockerbiff - You can do whatever you want with certain people, you just can't do it while claiming to be representing CUPE, i.e. carrying a CUPE banner, because CUPE doesn't endorse those people. Let me get THIS straight, you expect EVERY elected representative that you voted for to have the EXACT SAME POSITION as you? Yes, it is the NDP way or the highway - that's what the motion said, that's what was debated, and that's what the CUPE BC delegates (selected by members in their locals) voted for. The motion didn't say "let's proportion the union's political support to the Greens, Marijauna Party, Anarchists, Marxist-Lennists, or whoever, because we might have members whose posturing little egos might be bruised. There was every opportunity for delegates from affiliated Locals to speak and vote against the motion. The overwhelming majority didn't Affiliated Locals could have sent delegates opposed to supporting the NDP. The overwhelming majority didn't. How long have you been involved in the Labour Movement that you don't understand not every member is going to be completely happy all the time? In every round of bargaining, there are members who are upset that the bargaining team gave up something to get something else. There are no custom-made, personalized collective agreements, and there is no custom-made, personalized approach to a union's political action. The NDP is the best option for CUPE, and the overwhelming majority of members realize it. You don't seem to realize that, but then again, you don't seem to realize the real reasons why union membership is declining or why it's harder to gain certification. As far as I can see, the only thing you seem to get out of CUPE is the chance to wave a little CUPE flag next to Adrienne Carr and try to get people to think we support her. Too bad, it's like when you heard the expression "You are the 'U' in Union" you thought it meant you, and only you.

bear604 - we agree on something, good - the NDP way or the highway is how union political activism is structured, democracy be damned. If the by laws say only one party can be supported then all I can say is they can carve those by-laws on the tombstone of the union movement in 20 years because when all the over 50's in BC retire there isn't going to much left for the rest of us. The inability of the union movement to keep up with the political will of its members will be its own downfall. As falls the NDP, so falls the union movement. I think you will find collective agreements ARE custom made - or did the presenters at my recent CUPE BC seminar on CG's get it wrong ? I don't expect any currently elected representives to have the exact same position as I do - that is one of the reasons why I intend to run in the 2005 election. I sincerely doubt the BC union movement is capable of such a radical idea such as proportioning out its support of political parties according to the wishes of its members.

rockerbiff: It's interesting, I don't belong to a union but I seem to have more respect for them than you do as a card carrying member. Unions contribute less then 5% of the funding to the NDP. Last election it seems a majority of union members voted for Gordo and his fairweather "election time" union stance - as Gordo swizzled in Maui, their jobs fizzled rather rapidly out. Union members will have to educate themselves on the issues and begin to pay attention. They are the ones with the most to lose. A union that isn't strong might as well just play ping pong at their monthly meetings.

I had to laugh when watching Goebbels News a few days ago, and their reporter spoke to Adrienne Carr on the hustings in Surrey. The reporter said "Why should voters in Surrey vote for the Green Party in this riding, when they can vote for the NDP. They're a pro-environment party, aren't they?" The Green Party leader said No, then began a well-rehearsed rant about some of the NDP's past policies which she didn't consider pro-environment. What made me laugh was the obvious way Asper's man had set things up in his question, fishing for an anti-NDP rant, and the grateful smile on Carr's face as she heard the question and launched into her usual spiel on this subject. What a happy marriage that is: a right-wing, agenda-laden tv station, and a party leader too dense or ideologically blind to resent being their dupe.

rockerbiff if you intend to run in the next election you would be wise not to align with a union, at least not any gov't ones. Should you try to affiliate with the bcgeu you and your party may disappear into an ndp abyss , bcgeu and ndp are synonymous as far as Im concerned. As for bear604 his union dues will more than likly be filling their coffers before to long. Just watch.

Viewer Jim - the NDP's record on the environment IS abysmal !!! Where are they this week on the Jumbo Lake issue or the pollution of garbage in to the Pitt River ? Adriane Carr is well versed is showing the significant differences in the scant environmental policies of the NDP to what they should have been doing. Lynn - I have a great amount of respect for rank and file members who stand on picket lines in all kinds of weather, a bunch of them in East Van have been on the line for over two years. There just seems to such a disparity between union leaders and the rank and file. Henry - I am only approaching my own CUPE union and maybe the BCNU. Otherwise, I will be seeking endorsements elsewere far and wide. Needless to say this whole thing with the Green Party and unions is an experiment, there is a good chance it may fall flat or indeed as you suggest blow back in my face.

rockerbiff - collective agreements are crafted to the needs of a particular local. However, they're not crafted to the needs of a particular member. BTW, if you think you can bring any kind of labour consciousness to Adrienne Carr and her band of granola libertarians, more power to you. However, given your vitrol towards CUPE BC, The BC Fed and people over the age of 50, excuse me for having my doubts. lynn's right - you don't seem have much respect for the labour movement: you treat CUPE BC like we're dues-mongering sheep like the IWA or the CLC-exiled Alberta Union of Provincial Employees. I don't see what you're trying to accomplish with your "post-union" posturing, but I do know it's void of any sense of realpolitik. It's pretty easy to play the holier-than-thou card when you're backing a party which has never had to face the challenges of governing. Having just returned from Edmonton, I noticed how the Alberta media, ironically enough, fawns all over Brian Mason and the Alberta NDP to split the opposition vote in that province. The big difference is, Mason knows he's being patronized by the media, does Adrienne Carr?

henry - Dues? The party gets a cheque from me every month.

It seems pretty obvious that the rabid NDP supporters around here can't hack it when their party recieves criticism from anyone. Does it seem all of a sudden it seems everyone is against you ? The media show far more favouritism to the NDP than the Greens, have you ever heard CBC radio in the morning ? I have tremendous historical respect for the labour movement, however in the last few years the whole movement seems to be floundering. The more I see of the union movement the less chances I see it surviving for another 100 years. I see people in my work place harassed by supervisors without recourse, I see people not allowed to go to the bathroom without asking permission first. I see people working for minimum wage and still called unionised employees. I see workers at an East Van metal works on strike for over two years without settlement. I think we are on iceberg that is slowly shrinking as it moves south. I mean apart from the pay and some of the benefits I don't actually see were the union strength is supposed to be. I grew up in England, TUC, NCB etc. massive unions that could bring the nation to a standstill, I don't see any of that in any of the unions here. I grew up on coal miners strikes and power outages during Heath government of the 70's, confrontations and pitched battles were on tv every night. When Thatcher closed the mines in the 80's it was the same again. In BC there is no "fear" of the unions, it seems to have all washed away down the Fraser and in to the sea. I have been on the strike line here at SFU and if it wasn't for some outside workers from UBC [who were also on strike at the time] it would have the most pathetic strike of all time. I was dissapointed to say the very least. So many people tried to pass through our strike line and everyone was so polite it was sickening, NOT one egg was thrown. Surely, people trying to cross a picket line should have some fear about having themselves pelted with eggs or something worse. I guess the fight has been taken out of BC public unions, I sure as hell didn't see any on the strike line here.

rockerbiff - I actually listen to radio 2, so thanks for the suggestion! It doesn't seem to me that everyone's against the NDP, nor is the public going to believe that the current party are the "clones" of the previous NDP government. You don't go from 20% in the polls to 40% over three years if you're being abandoned. As for criticism of the party, I credit the Greens with forcing the NDP to snap up and start getting their act together a little better on environmental issues. What I don't appreciate, are ready-made assumptions that the party hasn't learned from its mistakes. You were on the picket line at SFU around the same time I was out at UBC. Like you, we were legislated back to work under the Liberals. Under the NDP in 1999, we were only out for six hours before we reached a collective agreement. Which would you pick? I've noticed your admiration for BCNU: is this the same BCNU that Carr told several members of on a picket line in 2001 to "get back to work"? Do you really relish the idea of have those hands on your collective agreement? While we're sharing backgrounds here, I can't say that I share your pessimism, since I was born, raised, and received my union education in Alberta, where scab labour is legal and encouraged, where public sector job action is illegal, and picket lines go long and go ugly. I never saw any eggs thrown, but I did see a lot of brothers and sisters taken away by the police, or just beaten up by them on site, as was the case with the Calgary Herald strike in 1999. This may be why I see the labour movement in BC as the glass being half full. Of course, the real problem for unions in BC is the government we have to deal with, which is why CUPE BC is intent on replacing that government with the party in the best position to do so, again - realpolitik.

So rockerbiff says that he/she is going to run in the 2005 election -- does rockerbiff actually have a name? sounds like he/she should be coming out with his/her identity, rather than hiding behind anonymity.

rockerbiff: Strong unions depend on union leaders with integrity, innovative ideas, and courage and on members who are informed, active, and also courageous. They both must care deeply about the rights of workers and the fairness and safety of the workplace. They depend on political parties that respect and uphold these beliefs through party policies. More importantly, political leaders must "walk the walk" but their talk is often a sheer giveaway.

If you really believe in strong unions then you are going to have to confront your Green leader, who as LEADER of a provincial party, said "we trust business to do the right thing" on the subject of pay equity during the leaders' debate. Your party has also run candidates who advocated right-to-work legislation and as bear604 says above even Carr, herself, has told picketers "to get back to work." These choices have ramifications whether you acknowledge it or not and are signs of a political party that really just wants unions and their members "to behave" and not rock the business boat. The present government has tried to destroy the union movement in BC, the Greens would just prefer to keep the unions "on simmer" so that business would never have to feel the heat from a truly strong union movement.

What everyone seems to have ignored here is the only candidate who actually lives in the riding, Shirley Abraham, the Reform-BCDC candidate who represents a clear alternative to the ultra-right Polak, and left-wing Brar.

What everyone seems to have ignored here is the only candidate who actually lives in the riding, Shirley Abraham, the Reform-BCDC candidate who represents a clear alternative to the ultra-right Polak, and left-wing Brar.

During the by-election campaign, the BC Liberals have continued to spend $35,000 for each airing of their television propaganda. Earlier this week, Liberal Mary Polak was accusing the NDP of going over the $57,000 spending limiit.

http://www.thenownewspaper.com/issues04/104104/news/10 4104nn4.html

This just in - Adrienne tells it like it is: "I am the party they are turning to." Adriane Carr, October 27, 2004, Global TV

Vick yes I am Ian Gregson, I've written elsewere on the tyee under this name. You can see my web site at http://amputee-online.com/iangregson

Over spending is something neither the NDP and Liberals can accuse the Greens of - I bet the Greens haven't even spent their $10,000 on this however if there was a prize for least amount of dollars spent per vote gained the Greens would always win :-) bear604 - here is my favourite MacPhail comment "How have we become a lab rat in a failing right-wing science experiment? I wish I had the answer. I don't." She made this at the BC Fed Conference in 2001, I even got a copy of the speech in order to confirm what I was amazed to hear.

What an excellent and apt comment by joy mcphail...and I might add green vote-splitting was a catalyst that has aided this dreadfull, bloody and sophomoric "science experiment"...

C'mon Lewis, the reality was MacPhail did not know how we ended up in the science experiment, I think everyone outside the NDP knew how we ended up in it, Joy was maybe still in denial at the time ! Please keep blaming the Greens for the NDP losing in 2001, it reassures me that I left the NDP for the right reasons.

rockerbiff - I don't blame the Greens for the NDP losing in 2001. We did it to ourselves, and contrary to the impression you've given throughout this thread, we know it. Where the blame lies is with the media (i.e. Can/West Global) who gave the Greens a free pass, equated you as being the same thing as the NDP, and never challenged you on anything: the story they (and the Liberals) clearly wanted was the death of the NDP, and pumping the Greens to split the vote only served those purposes. Desperate for any kind of profile, your leader was more than happy to play along.

I agree Lewis, that's an excellent comment from MacPhail - We became lab rats because so many "believed" the mad scientist Gordo's lies about the "dismal" decade...so dismal we actually had hospitals, schools, courthouses, civil liberties offices , women's shelters, an ombudsman, a Human Rights Commission, an adequately funded auditor-general, caretakers in our parks, control of BCferries, ownership of BC Rail, our privacy information stayed in Canada, land offices in our towns, fish farm moratorium, creation of new parks, and a partridge in a pear tree. Ah, what a horrible decade...

Adrienne Carr: "I am the party they are turning to." (Surrey- Panorama Ridge candidate for the Adrienne Party.)

The NDP win the Surrey byelection Be afraid Gordon.Be very afraid.

Preliminary Results Surrey-Panorama Ridge By-election

These are preliminary results only. Final results will be available after the conclusion of Final Count which will commence on Wednesday, November 10, 2004.

Candidate Political Affiliation Total Valid Votes % of Valid Votes ABRAHAM, Shirley Ann Reform Party of British Columbia 243 2.0%

BRAR, Jagrup New Democratic Party of B.C. 6,662 53.5%

CARR, Adriane Green Party of BC 1,052 8.4%

EVANS, David James B.C. Conservative Party 273 2.2%

PAL, Joe Independent 67 0.5%

POLAK, Mary BC Liberal Party 4,160 33.4%

  Total Votes Cast 12,457

ian gregson, I am impressed by your background (from what I read at your web site). I wish you good luck in the May election. I am supporting the NDP.

The good people of surrey sent gordo a clear message tonight. Only 201 more days!

It's going to be a SHORT new era...if we all keep fighting -expose the lies!

Wow!

Considering the resources Campbell and company threw at winning this thing its nice to see the NDP win by a clear majority in a riding that went heavily Liberal last time around.

Great job by the workers to get the vote out.

Best news in 3.5 years. Liberals-GOODBYE!

...And, a nice end to a terrible week for Adriane Carr.. first humiliation at her own hands at the Citizens' Assembly (every seasoned politician knows better than to whine sour grapes for not getting your own way after the people have spoken), and then not even beating the unknown Sunny Athwal's result in 2001 in Surrey-PR. Well done Adriane, you'll have totally destroyed your party by May!