Nice article and I agree, Don. My first thought when I heard about the Nelson proposal was aw-shucks embarrassment followed by the thought that perhaps we, the dodgers, should contribute for a monument to Canada. But there are already too many monuments around us and they can be easily pulled down by the first battle tank that trundles down the street... perhaps just a nice bust somewhere of Peter Gzowski who helped so many of us feel at home with "This Country in the Morning". The current debacle in Iraq is all too familiar. I feel a bit ashamed that our generation has allowed such a thing to occur.

We have many memorials in Canada and especially BC to the men that left the US to avoid an unjust war. The memorial is the best kind that there is, the evidence left by them of a better world. Oddly, I think this is why we have war memorials. The lives of the youth were sacraficed for no positive gain for the world in return for a name on a cenotaph.

I am one who has known, worked with and befriended many U.S. war resisters over the years, who chose to come here around the time of Vietnam. I was actually in Vietnam myself after the defeat of the French there, and during the very beginning of the U.S. buildup, and through tying that in with later developments and study on my own, had no difficulty relating to why these young men made the choice they did.

For similar reasons, I will greet those young men AND women from the U.S. who are choosing to come here over Iraq as well. Their country has a major problem and poses major risks to the well-being of the entire world, not just Iraq and the Middle East.

Be proud, those of you who have come here in these circumstances to be part of our country. You have made an invaluable contribution to many levels of our national life. If you feel the need to build a physical memorial to that which was a defining event in your lives, do so, whatever the whiners from whence you came say, or our own reactionaries and apologists in our midst.

It has been our pleasure and gain to have you here.

Good reflections Don. There is a small point to make here. If you travel to south eastern Ontario and drive around some of the old communities you will find numerous monuments to other "American war resisters." And despite what your Nelson-Area MLA claims, anyone who would have the nerve to ever call thse people cowards (as he did in his reference to those who came during Vietnam), would likely be run out of town on a rail. These earlier resisters were seen as heros for opposing the first U.S. tyranny when they began to arrive in the late 1700s. Following the end of hostilities between the U.S. and then British controlled North America, these immigrants went on to become true Canadians. Some of them and many of their children would proudly join with fellow Canadians a generation or two later when the U.S. again decided that Canada would become part of the United States. These so-called ``cowards'' as your MLA would have it, died and were wounded along with other Canadians in a winning bid to stop the Americans. No doubt, more than a handful took part in battles like the burning of Washington, the capture of Detroit and a great many other battles where they died as Canadians in defence of their chosen country. These people were referred to as United Empire Loyalists, (UEL), one of very few special designations Canada allows and otens of thousands of offspring of these heros are today entitled to use the UEL along with their names in honour of contributions their ancestors made to this country. If people in the Nelson region can get beyond the blinkered thinking of their MLA, I think any monument would certainly reflect Canada's longstanding tradition of opening its doors to those fleeing war and tyranny. That tradition has served us well, attracting people from around the world, including many Americans, who continue to dream and work toward a better world.

Many Americans avoided the Vietnam War without going to Canada (eg GW Bush). The primary "crime" the draft dodgers committed was they left the United States and often claimed the change was for the better. Draft dodgers and other expatriots are a stinging blow to the American ego. In 1969 my family left the States for Hudson's Hope, BC to start a homestead. I was seven years old. My Dad had no concerns about the draft because he was 37 years old, had nine children, and a wife. My parents wanted to raise their kids on a ranch in the wilds of Canada. The next five years changed the way I view the world. When we moved back to the States in 1974, I was shocked by all the kids in school that asked questions like, "Was there something wrong America? Are your parents communists?" Even after answering no to both questions some of them still looked at me a little suspicious.

Americans come to Canada and have no need to hang out together in enclaves simply because most of us are more canadian than american already. We are simply coming home to a country that is more suitable to our true nature. Many americans of the liberal persuasion have the tolerance, the compassion and deep sense of fairness that is so evident among the canadian people. For me and my friends, Canada is what we always wished america was, but realized it could never be. Canada is the kinder, gentler america, the ideal that many americans speak of but never realize. America despite its claims, is nothing but the latest in a long line of empires, built on the blood and toil of its victims. It's claims to greatness are hollow; its bounty is tribute from afar; its citizens are trained as warriors from birth. It is the land of lost souls, the fount of evil, and the angel of darkness come to steal your life. It has passed beyond redemption and no republican or democrat will change it. Thank you canada for welcoming those of us who have escaped. Now help us keep this menace from absorbing us all.

"Thank you canada for welcoming those of us who have escaped. Now help us keep this menace from absorbing us all."

Amen to that, Minuteman. The U.S. and its "empire ambitions" is become a menace to us all-, and no less, those neocon/fascist elements within this country, who would be its loyal bootlickers as well.

Thank you Don and those who responded for articulating many of my feelings during this monument debate.I agree that Canadians deserve the monument for welcoming people from all over the world who wished to escape a certain tyranny over the last 150 years.I came to Canada in 1972, probably one the last draft dodgers, and within a short time realized that I felt like a Canadian born in the wrong country.Unlike you Don I no longer think about my "Americaness" when I visit down there,and in fact especially during this latest war,I've pretty well lost any American perspective.I just can't fathom how anyone could vote to re-elect the current administration.I also feel such a deep sadness that my generation evidently learned nothing from their parents mistakes.I've never felt more lucky or appreciative for being Canadian.

All my American friends are as Minuteman describes. I met all of them while living overseas, which gives one a totally different perspective of one's home country. We always bonded (with the occasional teasing rivalry, of course) faster than with any other "foreigners" ie. Europeans, Australians, etc. Of course they should have a monument.

The closest I've seen in print to my own conflicted feelings about our former country. Like you, Don, I recently had the opportunity to attend my high school class's 40th reunion. Unlike you, I made the same decision I've always made, and stayed put. I feel that it would be insensitive to wave my choice provocatively in the faces of those who made a different one, and despite the passage of 35 years, provocative is what I know my attendance would have been. While it's easy to reject the rabid right-wing rhetoric of those outraged by the plans for a monument, I have to sympathize with the genuine feelings behind some of the criticism. Resisting the war was for me the one right choice, the only thing that in conscience I could do. It's a choice I've never regretted, and I strongly suspect that it's a choice that has given me a fuller, more satisfying life than I would have had in the coarser culture of the US of A. But it's not a choice about which I can feel smug or superior. It's all too complex for that,isn't it? So if it's all the same to you, I'd just as soon forget the monument, thanks.

Dear Don, I was very much impressed with your humble yet enlightened insite into this issue. I enclose what I have written on this subject from a different perspective. I hope that you appreciate the point. RE: THE STATUE TO HONOUR “DRAFT DODGERS”: A TEST OF OUR BELIEF IN BASIC DEMOCRATIC PRINCIPLES, THE U.S. CONSTITUTION, THE CANADIAN CHARTER OF RIGHTS AND SIMPLE TOLERANCE AND ACCEPTANCE I was recently contacted by various individuals and groups with regard to the proposed erection of a simple statue in honour of that large group of Americans who came to be known as “Draft Dodgers”. They are those who left the United States and came to our country during the Vietnam era in order to avoid the draft. The statue is to apparently depict a young American boy reaching out for help and two Canadians looking upon him with smiling faces and outstretched arms symbolizing an offering of a friendly helping hand to a human being in need. It seems that the City of Nelson is to be the home of this statue because a large number of these Americans understandably chose this beautiful peaceful lakeside community nestled in a mountainous valley to settle, work and raise their families. Many of these Americans, despite President Carter’s general amnesty after the war, chose to stay on and became contributing members of our society. I was contacted so that I, because of my background, would presumably speak out loudly against such a desecration to the honour of those who fought and spilled blood on often forgotten, or little known battlefields throughout the world for democracy and freedom. Additionally, I was to respond to the “Americans” who have recently spoken out publicly against our country by their lobbing explosive verbal grenades filled with hatred, superiority, and other insults. Some of the shrapnel proclaimed that Canadians are cowards and that the United States should not tolerate us anymore and simply take us over as a people, as a nation. The American Legion, as an organization, has even petitioned President Bush to personally intervene and stop the erection of the statue. I agreed to write a letter to the editor, to the Mayor of Nelson and to anyone who might be interested or listen. I am honouring my commitment. I must confess that, when I first heard of the proposed statue, I was appalled and deeply hurt. I was angry that the “Draft Dodgers” would even consider that they are entitled to such an honour and that our municipal government would countenance such a thing. I was even more upset that other “Americans” would so recklessly and wrongfully demean the country in which I was born and raised and the people who make it what it is. However, as I sat down to put pen to paper my passions cooled. Thus, I will endeavor to articulate myself not solely from an emotional perspective but from a principled and rational point of view as well. Let me first address those few Americans who have chosen to criticize our country. It is clear that such remarks are not representative of the average enlightened and fair-minded American. Canadians must and do realize that these words of hatred are simply the words of the few. They are nothing other than the words of bigots, the words of the ignorant. They are the words of those who have little or no understanding or memory of the basic shared values and principles upon which our two great nations were founded, continue to nurture, and the tremendous sacrifices our peoples have jointly made against common enemies. Perhaps our politicians could have explained more understandably our absence in supporting our greatest friends and allies in the war in Iraq. I will try to do so. “Cowardice” of our people was certainly not the reason. Many Canadians felt we should stand with the Americans on the Iraq issue. Like many Americans, many Canadians were opposed to the war. Perhaps the split in each country was reminiscent of the Vietnam Era. The fact remains that we are a country with a tenth of the American population and with a comparatively minuscule tax base with which to support a war. Our armed forces were fully committed then and now in the war in Afghanistan, patrolling the Persian Gulf and in numerous peacekeeping missions throughout our troubled world. Our troops were and have been continuously committed to world peace and the war on terrorism. They have acquitted themselves with both professionalism and honour. Americans know that we are good friends and share common interests and values. We all know however, that even the best of friends, husbands and wives, parents and their children do not always agree on everything. That does not mean that they become enemies – they continue to love and respect each other. The same can be said of us. The American people know and remember that Canadians are not a cowardly people. “Lest we forget” is brought home across our nation, as in your country, every November 11th when we gather at cenotaphs and memorials inscribed with the names of hundreds of thousands of our fallen warriors. Americans remember our fallen comrades whose lives were sacrificed as regiment upon regiment was repeatedly cut down like cords of wood in the fields and no man’s lands of Europe in the three years before the American politicians decided to join First World War. Americans do not forget the blood of our troops spilled at the hands of the Axis Powers from the time we entered the Second World War in September 1939, long before your “Day of Infamy”, until its conclusion. Americans know that we were there on the ground in the war in Bosnia from the beginning – years before the Americans committed themselves to ground troops. I do not ever recall hearing Canadians saying that the Americans ever delayed getting into these wars because they were cowards. The bravery and honour of the American people, and its armed forces, have never been questioned by us; just as we know the American people have never questioned ours. Americans know that we suffered with them through the cold carnage of Korea. Americans do not forget that we were there with them in Mozambique. Americans know that we were with them from the beginning in Afghanistan. We are still there, as are they. With respect to the Vietnam War, Americans also know that many Canadians left the comfort and safety of their homeland to join them and help fight in that war. They know that most of the Canadian volunteers served as grunts. Though there is no accurate figure, some reliable sources estimate that over 30,000 young Canadians went south (then to Vietnam) while many young Americans were going north to Canada. One of my best friends went to Vietnam in 1968 with the U.S. Marines. Like most Canadians he served with honour and bravery – that is until such time as that small portion of him that the booby trap left behind was shipped home to Canada in a closed casket colourfully clad in the American flag complete with a Marine Corps Honour Guard. I was not at the funeral because I was in some jungle or paddy starting my second tour. I know how brave Americans and Canadians were in Vietnam, because I was there. Our Canadians who were on the ground from the beginning of the Bosnian war until the peace accord of late 1995 served with honour and bravery. Americans know this. I know, because I was there too. Though I have not been to Iraq, my never-ending mental images of Vietnam and Bosnia cause me to share the same nightmares as the troops now in Iraq, as if I was there. Americans know that scars of fear, violence and carnage transcend time and all wars. With respect to the “Draft Dodgers” and the statue, we should not forget that both of our great nations were founded largely by good people who left their countries to come, at great personal sacrifice, to the hardships of a new and uncivilized land because of persecution of one kind or another. In short, they were unhappy with their respective home country governance. The Pilgrims, the Huguenots, the Calvinists, and others come to mind. Many who came were pacifists - the Amish, the Quakers, the Mennonites, the Hutterites, and the Doukhobors also come to mind. The Americans fought a bloody war to establish their independence and adopted their Constitution. We Canadians were fortunate to secure our independence without bloodshed and adopted our Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Though different, these documents are strikingly similar in their articulation of basic values. The words that constitute these documents are not just flowery words chosen without reflection. They are thoughtful and hallowed words that reflect the basic values of what we stand for and who we are as peoples. They enshrine our most fundamental and important human rights and freedoms into law. Those values, and our protection of them, give us that quality that makes us better than and separates our two nations from so many others in this world. Some of the rights and freedoms we all value are relevant to the “Draft Dodger’s” decision to leave the United States and their recent expressed wish to erect a statue in honour of themselves. In simple terms, the rights of freedom of thought, the freedom of speech, the freedom of expression, the freedom of choice, the freedom of peaceful assembly, and the freedom of movement, amongst others, come into play. In the anti Vietnam War era many Americans demonstrated against the war, often demonstrators were violent and destructive, many verbally and physically attacked the fighting soldier and many protested by way of electoral ballot. Mohammed Ali refused to answer the draft, gave up his world championship title and went to jail instead. Tens of thousands voted with their feet by fleeing to Canada. Many of those young men who came to our country with their strong peaceful moral convictions arrived with virtually nothing but the shirts on their backs. Many of them gave up everything – their families, their friends, and their comfortable American way of life. For years they lived with the fear of arrest and detention. For years they lived with the stigma of being labeled cowards. Just as some of those of who bore arms were not necessarily brave or honourable, undoubtedly many who call themselves “Draft Dodgers” were in fact nothing more than simply cowards cloaking themselves with honour by claiming to be highly principled Anti-War Protestors. But, only they know who they are. Presumably these cowards continue to live without true inner peace, knowing in their souls, that that is all they are and that they have lived a life of lies to society about their true lack of moral fibre. However, there can be no doubt that the vast majority of the young Americans were in fact young men of strong beliefs and moral fibre. They have paid dearly for those values. We sometimes forget that it often takes greater courage not to do something, knowing that the stigmas of cowardice, betrayal and disloyalty will attach to and stay with them throughout their lifetime, than it is to simply be one of the many who went off to war. To my mind, those who truly believed on moral grounds in what they were doing and left their homeland are also heroes. Since my return from Vietnam and throughout the years of living in the Nelson area I have come to know many of these young American Anti-War Protestors. I came to find that we had many things in common. We had strong personal beliefs in the propriety of that war. The only thing was that, on some fundamental points, they were different beliefs. I cannot say that mine were right and theirs were wrong – only different. None of these young peaceful Americans have ever expressed disdain or dishonour for those who actually fought the war. Their disdain was for the politicians who sent other people’s children to a far away foreign land to kill or be killed. Rightly or wrongly they had a strong moral objection to the war and simply did not want to kill or be killed or see civilians or their friends maimed or killed. They did not want to give up their youth and happiness for something to which they were morally opposed. I have long ago come to accept those beliefs and differences. In 1977 President Carter forgave these young people by granting them general amnesty. The lessons of Vietnam will never leave us, but perhaps it is time to put the war behind us. We can continue to remember and honour those whose ghostly names so loudly appear on the Wall in Washington, many of who were my friends. During the Vietnam Era Canadians, whether they morally supported the war or not, were confronted in their day to day lives by over 125,000 young American men crossing our borders. Canadians did not solicit or incite these men to do so. Average Canadians took them in and provided them with their basic human needs such as food, clothing, a roof over their heads, and an opportunity to live in peace and contribute to society. In short, we did nothing more than offer a helping hand to those in desperate need. I know, because I was one of the many who held out their hands. We did nothing more than what any decent person would do in similar circumstances - just like the American people have done for so many similar people in different circumstances. To those who wish to erect the statue I say this. Many men and woman of our great nations have laid down their lives or suffered physical and/or emotional or psychological scars fighting for the democratic rights and freedoms we enjoy today. Some Americans cowardly fled the United States for fear of fighting in Vietnam while others fled because of their moral convictions. Erecting a statue honouring the American “Draft Dodger” will not differentiate between the two. Given the peaceful beliefs and way of life of true anti war Americans living in Canada I must say that I am disappointed that you feel the need to have a statue erected in your honour, particularly given the reaction that you have seen against it. Whether you are right or wrong does not really matter. What matters is that you know who you are, what you stand for and are at peace. Cement and rebar will not significantly add to or detract from that feeling. For the sake of the peace of mind of others who are not fair-minded or enlightened, or do not realize that poppies will still grow in Flanders field even if the statue is erected, or who will otherwise never understand you or what I have said, I would ask that you reconsider erecting the statue, as honourable as it may be. Should it be your decision to forge ahead and exercise the rights and freedoms that the blood of others has given you, despite the sorrow and anger that it will cause, I want you to know that even though I may disagree with your decision to erect the statue, I will always defend your right to do so. For me to do otherwise would be a degradation of the memories of and honour of all of those who fought and sacrificed themselves to give that right to you. The American Legion, as an organization, has expressed a different view than mine. Hopefully, I have said something that will cause them to further reflect upon their position. I know that many American Legionnaires and veterans of foreign wars agree with and stand by me. I know, because I am one of you too. Signed Dana L. Urban Victoria, British Columbia (250) 356-5722

I don't be-little anyone who left the USA to come to Canada during the Vietnam war or fact any war. I have had several friends who did such. Though to erect a monument you have to give your heads a shake, let it die. Fact is we have greater priorities. Then not to forget, we have peace keepers in the world today who have given there lives. They are the ones a monument should be dedicated to.

Draft dodgers, well I don't hold a grudge. Though I am against a monument, what for. In 1945 in Holland a 21 year old. While reading a letter stating that he had a new born son. This person was shot and killed. The son is a friend of mine today. Never had the chance to know what it was like to have a father. Fact is if it wern't for the lives that were taken in the first and second wars. We may not have the freedom today that we so much enjoy and the right to protest whatever. Who will be next for a monument.

Dana Urban, I found your words of interest being a Canadian who didn't enlist in the American army to fight in Vietnam, although I too came close to buying in to the U.S. M/I complex's fight for democracy as well in the '60s. You touch on a lot of still sore spots for a lot of people, but I'm afraid you have become just too Canadian in your wish to compromise. Quite frankly, I don't give a shit what the American legion thinks of a monument to Draft dodgers in Canada. To be honest, if it pisses off a good bunch of its membership I think it would more than serve its purpose of continuing to define the differences between the two countries. Yes, we share lots of history and border with the U.S., however, anything but the bland, bleached out high-school history texts they offer in our schools today will clearly show the relationship between our two countries has been anything but brotherly on many an occasion. Canadians have been defending themselves against American aggressions since the U.S. war of Independance (1770s) and here we are today still defending ourselves against U.S. aggression on economic and environmental fronts to name just a couple. Why you ventured into Vietnam in a U.S. uniform is your concern. Mine, as a Canadian, is that Vietnam, just like Iraq, was an illegal war fought to prop up a greedy corporate sector. I have nothing against you for having involved yourself in war crimes, primarily because I trust you thought you were doing the right thing as many others thought too. But I do have a whole lot of issue with you having acknowledged that, yet still you argue no one should now honour another road chosen because it will only cause hard feelings. I have to assume you were contacted to oppose the statue concept because of a political position you have taken previously. I don't know, but from where I sit you seem more interested in appeasement of a red-neck group south of the border than truely considering the plight of those who fled rather than participate in a bad war. Let's face it, even the patriotic John Birch Society that likely gets its share of praise around an American Legion bars, understands. It's America-love-it-or-leave-it motto, accepts that some will leave. As has been pointed out in these posts, the proposed memorial would serve as much to honour this country's tradition of harbouring those who flee hate, abuse and war. Also, from a Canadian point of view, such a momument would certainly educate American visitors to the Nelson area a little about the differences between Canada and their homeland. Finally, as far as Iraq or Afghanistan is concered, Canada should not be involved in either of the hostilities and is still owed an apology from the U.S. and American Legion types who were blaming Canada for allowing ''terrorists'' to sneak into the U.S before 9/11. As you stated, this was the same day Canadian airports and citizens were scrambling to make room for thousands of Americans who could not fly into the U.S. in those frightening days. If your argument is based on the Nelson Chamber of Commerce rantings that such a momunment would chase away American tourist dollars, all I can say is if tourists are that patriotic let them stay home because I don't think we Canadians should bend over any more.

Dana's thoughts are reasoned and intelligent unlike so many ignorant americans. But real history tells a different story from that taught in american schools. We keep hearing war stories from the american perspective. I simply ask Dana and those who accept imperial conquests to step into the shoes of the vietnamese and their neighbors who suffered 3 million killed and millions more wounded and brutalized by the most efficient killing machine the world has ever seen. Americans rain napalm bombs from the skies on innocent civilians and then talk about the inhumanity of their adversary. Americans spray tons of mutagenic chemicals, agent orange, on the country and then complain about chemical warfare. When the US apologizes for their aggression in Viet Nam, pays reparations, and then faces the international court for war crimes then we can talk. Until americans wake up and admit their crimes against humanity, they can be nothing more than international outlaws. You see, fighting bravely in a illegal war is not a virtue. Only when people say hell no, we won't go, will these senseless and illegal conflicts stop.

Perhaps the best memorial is for us as Canadians to provide the same service to those young Americans who do not wish to serve in Iraq as we did during the Vietnam War. America love it or leave it, that works only if those no longer loving it actually have the option of leaving...

To call someone a coward because they would rather leave everything they have behind, then be sent to a country to illegally kill people, as happened in Vietnam, and currently in Iraq, is a disgrace. I am surprised to hear such a comment from the MLA in Nelson, and expected more.

Still today, US foreign policy stinks, as it did back in the 60's.

God Bless us all!

Sure we were cowards. We didn't want to go to Vietnam and fight and get hurt or maybe die. Nothing wrong with that. Maybe nelson could construct the World's Biggest Chicken as a memorial. I'd help contribute to that. Cluck-cluck.

I was in Nelson a few days ago, and was somewhat surprised by the major hoo-haa over this proposal to commemorate those who chose to leave the US during Vietnam and those Canadians who kindly helped them in so many ways. As a war resister myself (a classification which I differentiate from draft-dodger), I was initially taken by surprise by the proposal, and then even more surprised by the response. I am submitting a proposal that might satisfy all sides. Why not do a life size bronze copy of the George W. Bush action figure that captures the way he appeared on the aircraft carrier to proclaim "Mission Accomplished." After all, he must be the most prominent (if not the most heroic) American draft-dodger of them all.

Ben's idea is so cool. Maybe he could be an egg and lay under the chicken. Cock a doodle doo doo

Unfortunately, it seems as if our present government in Ottawa is caving in to US pressure. Future draft dodgers are to be returned to the US. We should not allow this to happen. Furthermore, what we Canadians do in Canada is absolutely none of the US' business.

Don -- Thanks for letting me intimidate you into coming back for the reunion. It's hard to say what freaked them out more, your honesty about your past 30 years or the fact they saw two men dancing together. I know a bunch of people from Lasqueti, and they do that, too. Must be a Canadian thing. :-) As far as the proposed memorial goes: 35 years ago, after protesting the Vietnam War almost since its inception, I decided I'd had enough of Johnson, Nixon and Reagan. I obtained Landed Immigrant status in Canada, with every intention of moving to Peace River and continuing my life among people who weren't patently insane. On my way north I hitchhiked a ride with a salesman who told me, "You have to go back. You can't change America's horrific policies from Canada. Canadians can't do it, only Americans can." Like an idiot, I thought he made sense. So I went back. Thirty-five years later I've watched America relentlessly decay into a country of ignorant, non-thinking hyper-consumers, led by imperialist arrogance and corruption at the highest levels of government. It's unfathomable to me how 50% of the country can still consider Bush and his cadre of professional liars even remotely fit for office. Thirty-five years later it's clear that nothing I've done here has changed the way Americans see themselves, or the way they comport themselves in the world community. And you know what? American is still as deeply divided and conflicted over Vietnam as it was 35 years ago. I'm not. I knew it was wrong in 1964. It took some of the "draft dodgers" a few more years to figure it out, but they made better choices. Too bad I didn't. I should have stayed in Canada. Memorials are for dead people. If there's going to be one, erect it for all my friends and classmates who were suckered to their deaths by Johnson, Nixon, MacNamara, Kissinger and all the rest of America's hired guns. Those of us who survived, regardless of how we did it, don't need any monuments. We would, however, appreciate some sanity in a world seemingly gone mad.

I'm not convinced a monument is nessessary. In about 1967 I tried to convince my small town BC school buddies to go with me to Washington to enlist in the U.S. Army to go to Vietnam. We were working on a "Slashing Crew" clearing the shores of one of the Arrow Lakes for the flooding for the dam there. I guess my mental processing could have been: "This is pretty awful work. How much worse could it be if I was in Vietnam?" Lucky for me the only fellow from my circle there who left with me wanted to go back to our small town in the Okanagan to marry his sweetheart and I drove him there and went back to work for my father in construction. "How much worse it could be" I found out much later. Books like "Home Before Midnight" and movies like "Appocalypse Now", "Full Metal Jacket" and "The Deer Hunter" resonate for me (though I too "Chickened out") Some years later my wife and I (snug in our Vancouver Island home) counted up the numbers of the people we had contact with regularly and counted as our friends. about 50% were here as a direct result of the Draft in the US. They are intelligent, interesting and compassionate people. We value them as friends. In fact we quipped that we had the foreign policy of the USA to thank for this phenomenon: selecting it's young population for independant thinking and the courage to act on such thought and sending them up here to us. We do appreciate these friends. No monument can truely represent them.

I live in Tahsis. At a recent village get-together and pig roast I met an american couple who had come up for the salmon fishing. He was wearing a button with BUSH on it and I whirled, all set to cut loose verbally. Then I took a closer look B=bullshit U=unintelligent S=scandalous H=Horrific..... these people are not of draft age, they remember VietNam all too well, they are also moving their assets out of the U.S. and moving here. There isn't a place left here for rent. Hardly anything left for sale. The yanks are coming, for sure! I am still conflicted about "draft dodgers", so many came , took advantage of our hospitality then as soon as the amnesty was signed headed back down to get their share of the yankee dollar at a time when things were pretty tight up here... too many brought a peculiarly american mind set here and tried to pressure local politics into some really un-canadian stances..at the same time I can really understand why people would leave rather than have their kids put in harm's way... we will get many many more "draft dodgers" when the U.S. starts the draft again. And whether it is Bush or Kerry who wins, they will not be pulling out of Iraq..they'll use up the millions of bullets being manufactured in Canada... and use up the youth of this generation in a war nobody can "win". Nobody ever does "win" when the carpet bombing begins. We will again see american youth heading north. The best monument to the VietNam protestors would be for them to organize and help ease the way for the Iraq protestors.

It's an excellent, thoughtful article Don Gayton has written, and the responding points of view are interesting. However, I take exception to Dana Urban's categorization of so-called draft dodgers as "principled" or "cowardly." That's far too simplistic to be useful. We're talking about lives and life decisions here, matters of destiny. The complexities of life cannot be reduced to a black-or-white adjective. For my part, in 1968 I had served a couple years in the Peace Corps, I was ticked off at the U.S. government for things I had heard said about its intentions in Micronesia (where I served), I was appalled by Henry Kissinger's crass dismissal of Micronesia: "There are only 90,000 people out there. Who gives a damn?" I was alienated, horrified, overwhelmed, terrified, disgusted, boggled, turned off by and opposed to the thought of the military, never mind the war. I was newly married and my wife was pregnant. A friend said there was a job in Ottawa he was sure I could get, and I had fond childhood memories of Quebec City and college memories of Montreal. And (if this makes any sense to you) I have four grown kids now, whose destiny was to be born Canadian (and have the option to be American as well!). I thought I was going to get drafted, and I felt drawn to Canada. This is just a sketch of my story, obviously. There were helpful people in Ottawa; Canadians have been very accepting over the years; I feel mostly Canadian now, certainly in a cultural and political sense, though there are some things American rooted in me. And I was lucky; I never did get drafted. I chose and choose Canada. But I tell my little story because I know there are tens of thousands of stories of individuals who chose to come to Canada from the States during that time for all kinds of different "reasons." Some -- many -- probably had a lot of fear of war and the military, and maybe not a lot of political savvy or conscientiousness, but that doesn't make them cowards. I think it does no one any good to be thinking "coward," to be craning your neck back thirty-five years to stick the label "coward" on some imagined segment of the population. By the way, though I live in the Vancouver area, not in Nelson, and my p.o.v. is thus qualified, a monument does not seem the right gesture to me; if a commemoration of the events, stories and dramas of those times is in order, I would favour seeing it in the form of a historical plaque.

I guess this stupid Vietnam war will never end! My brother earned his Purple heart near Danang in '69. My father earned his in 1944 in the Pacific. Over time, we all came to understand and respect each other. Too bad that's not true for so many others. I came to Canada in 1970 at the age of 19. I returned to the US in 1976 out of curiousity. After four years of feeling like a foreigner who was never going to fit in, I re-immigrated to Canada where I have always felt at home. Thank you Canada! No monument is required. Only that Canada remain a truly free country.

while i feel this article shows how truely out of touch draft dodgers are with how the world truely works, i must say that if there is a monument it should focus on the fact that america's worst cowards and socialy despised people are still able to go to another country, make a difference,and prove that our worst are on the same level as your best.

So far I know for a fact that cowards don't like being called what they are. Traitors don't think they are commiting treason. Even baby killers are able to justify their actions in their own minds. But that doesn't make the actions any more right. Reading through these posts has brought me to the realization that you folks have been completely bamboozled by the Communists propaganda machine. One on this board even blamed the deaths of millions of S. Vietnamese on the US instead of placing the blame where it really belongs, on the communist's cleansing purges after America pulled out as certified by historical evidence, but that wouldn't fit into his/her justification of 'what I ran out on my country for' picture. If I ever hear of any of you people trying to move back into my country I will do everything I can to make sure you are rejected. We don't want you here more than you don't want to be here. Got that! P.S. I didn't run and I know exactly what we were there for and why it was important and right. And history has proven me correct and you wrong. Just ask any Vietnamese today. Of course you will have to get them and their entire family out of Vietnam to enable them to tell you the truth without being murdered. Today! And that is your and all those that protested the war publicly and cause America to lose her will and go back on promises we had made to millions of people. And they died when we did. Shame on us for that. Shame on all or you for you part in causing America to do that. You have the blood of untold millions on your hands. Shame....Shame....Shame on you all.

I will make this brief so that I can get the hell off this site. I am glad that the draft dodgers that are still in Canada are happy because I'm happy that you are still there and do not ever want any of you to come back. Frankly, I could care less if you Canadians are happy with them or not. Draft dodgers that ran to Canada dishonored themselves, their families and their country. None of you can tell me that late at night, laying in the dark and waiting for sleep you do not see the real truth about what you are and what you did. And by the way, to you Canadians that are offering sanctuary to any Americans that want to avoid service in Iraq, "take off, eh" there is no longer a draft and there hasn't been for over thirty years. Gary L. Burks Los Angeles, Ca. Proud Viet Nam Veteran

As I recall the DMZ in vietnam [the 17thparrallel] was jointly patrolled by poland ,canada,and india personnel. So canada 's role yes was minor but failed since the ho chi minh trail obviated the border frontier. War is horror and rampant murder my dad said whom never spoke of his ww2 experience, Iwonder why thepresent US administration that has many faith based acolytes is still on war as a strategy/ tool? It seems most civilized persons decry murder,in fact oppose the death penalty even after some one is found quilty of heinous behaviour. Funny that bloodbath seems a mode of dealing with a situation verysad,i cry for america.

As a young man in 1950s America, I avoided the draft by joining the U.S. Navy. I served four years of active duty and rather enjoyed it. I saw some of the world and rubbed shoulders with people of different backgrounds, outlooks, and colors. But then Vietnam began heating up at about the time I received my honorable discharge, which meant I was no longer subject to military service. By then my social consciousness had been raised on a number of issues, integration being one (I'd started to question segregation while stationed in New Orleans), the growing war in Vietnam another. I began to wonder: were I still subject to the draft, would I heed the call and go to that war? I like to think I'd have had the courage to say no; like to think I'd have moved to the haven of Canada, as I did anyway, though without having to become a draft dodging fugitive in the eyes of my native country. Like Don Gayton, whom I respect, as I do all so-called draft dodgers, I'm now happily a Canadian and at the same time still deeply an American. In that respect, I see us both as exiles of a sort, burdened with a love-hate relationship to our native country. Most of my relatives remain in the States, and many, I'm sure, voted for Bush and support the war now in Iraq. They consider themselves patriots. But the term "patriot" in what is now the United States once denoted a British subject in rebellion against the rule of Britain. Likewise, one might call an American citizen in rebellion against the rule of America -- now and at the time of the Vietnam War -- another, better kind of patriot.

I was a US Army soldier who refused Vietnam orders and tried to go to prison, then escaped and deserted when the Army refused to send me to prison. I lived in Canada a total of 8 years, but finally returned to the US to work politically to save the world from American insanity. As you notice, my cohorts and I have not been particularly successful.

It isn't critical to me one way or the other whether there is a monument to us or not. However, I do feel that some kind of monument to peace (not necessarily to us) is important. Why? The world is full of monuments to war, and this tends to glorify war in the eyes of young children and those adults who don't ask questions. We need monuments (of some kind) to peace to counter-balance that. Yes, the war dead absolutely deserve honor. But if this is all we do, the world will continue to have never-ending generations of war dead, and nothing will ever change. You may have heard the saying, "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results." We must do something different. You don't need to honor us specifically, but find some way to honor peace.

I wish to thank Dana Urban for his long, heartfelt, and at times very painful post. I also thank him for coming back from Vietnam and reaching out to those of us who made a different choice. You're a good and honorable man, and I thank you from the bottom of my heart.

Anyone who left their country in a time of need is a coward! If you left and stayed away then so be it. Though I can't see how you would be an asset to any country if you just leave when you don't like things. Decisions are made, some we like, some we don't, we back the decision made because it is our way of life. I am a U.S. Army Infantryman serving in Iraq. I am away from my loving wife and 3 beautiful children, for a war many people disagree with. I may not agree with some tings but this is what my country needs me to do so I would happily lay my life on the line. I have watched a friend die for a cause and a country he thought was worth the sacrifice. A monument to people who run away while good people fight for their country is a disgrace and a slap in the face. You look my friend's wife and 4 children in the eye and tell them that your too much of a coward to fight like their father did, and tell them not to worry you will enjoy the freedom that is paid for by their loss. It makes my blood boil to know that people like you (MIKE) live in my country now when you have no right whatsoever! How can you live with yourself? True coward! When you go to sleep at night think of all the soldiers who paid for your freedom with their blood, sweat, and tears. Think of all the children who lost their fathers or mothers so that you could run away just to come back and reap the benefits from their loss. Do your part or leave and never come back, you can not call yourself and American, no one who runs away can. People like you don't belong in my country!

A little saying I found on the net this same day.

"Run cowards run we will protect your family"

http://members.tripod.com/~vet2/ddodger.html