Thanks for this very worhwhile comparison. It is both our fortune and our misfortune that we have such an enormous neighbour South of us. British Columbia enviously compares itself to Alberta. Canadians often compare themselves as a nation to the U.S. The comparison of our two approaches to healthcare has been, and continues to be, on of the most fascinating social experiments of the 20th and 21st centuries. The results are speaking for themselves. The important thing is that we've often chosen the "road less travelled" in a world where "we all live in America" whether we like it or not. The Americans have often done it right where our public policy choices have fallen flat. The worst outcome would be American monoculture. I hope Canada continues making unique choices and continues "falling" forward incrementally.

Well written article. Hard to imagine what might inform the posted opinion of what "the American have often done it "right" means - "ON the 'right' maybe...or weaponry is 'right'". Or a military industrial complex “economy” is “right”? I assign that behaviour to American [largely militarist and big business] administrations – and not fundamentally to the “American people”, whom I think are as wise and worth as we are – and who are very much under siege, politically. I also never confuse what a right wing business club calling itself "liberal" in this province "enviously" pines to be - "Ralph Klein [North-ish]- Americans" - with what the citizens of British Columbia believe. Alberta’s so-called “economic” framework is situated on dinosaurs – from the “leadership” – right on down to what runs their “economy” – oil – which is waning – and they try to wash up what’s left of their oil with – fresh water – which is in short supply . Alberta is not a province currently with a sustainable plan – very much like their (temporary) neo-oligarch administration darlings south of the border. Alberta has some excellent NGO’s (Pembina Institute, to name but one). People in our province (BC) need to stay very focussed and clear – and I believe that they can and shall – when there are clear and un-spun information sources (like this site, and other worthy ones, for instance) – and where people actively communicate with one another – and stay proactively involved outside of the digital [soap] box. No one is fundamentally conned here (and I don’t just mean at the Tyee) – even if the conservative paper media “empires”, and G. Campbell’s brother, try to print their brains out hoping to make it “appear” otherwise with a paper trail parade.

The two nations are "ethnically" alike? That's completely untrue. Euro-descended Canadians are a radically different bunch than their Yank counterparts -- much more heavily French and Slavic, for starters. The composition and numbers of minority populations in the Dominion are on an entirely different graph, too - starting with the fact that less than 2% of Canadians are black. Also immigration trends in the last generation are wildly different up here, since lots of our newcomers have arrived as a result of the old Commonwealth tie, ie from Hong Kong and the Subcontinent, etc. I don't know what this means in terms of policy, just that it needs to be kept in mind Canadians aren't just Yanks with fancy ideas -- we are, literally, a different *people.* ---> "We speak the same language"? Well, it hardly seems necessary to address that, n'est-ce pas? ---> So this article seems pretty well-intended, but essentially pointless. In a very real sense, it doesn't *matter* what Americans think of us. 'Cos generally they don't; and when they do, they don't work at it very hard. Why should they? What matters is what *we* think of our nation, and what we're willing to do to keep her independent, strong and free.

Before we pat ourselves too heartily on the back, let's remember that we got lots o' warts too. Before Chretien had his legacy pangs, Canada stood alongside the US and Australia in opposing firm action on climate change (and indeed, we've resumed our pattern of weakening the accord even as we've ratified it), we are one of the leading nations pushing for undemocratic trade pacts that shut out local democracy, and we've consistently taken the wrong positions on cases such as the EU banning asbestos. But, I guess at least we don't send in the tanks - not that we could get our few tanks very far...

Let us remember when we stood proudly with Jean stating we would not send troops to Iraq we already had most of our navy stationed in the gulf. What was our navy up to. Well they were harrassing merchant vessels. They were racially profiling the crew members on these vessels. Boarding them commando style, searching the ship and rounding up the crew in one place. Then they would identify each seafarer and digitally photograph them and email all these working folks pictures and identities to the US State Dept. No we didn't spill any blood but we did violate human rights and decency and perhaps broke a whole host of international laws particularly maritime law and played kissy with Bush Inc. Shame on us! And shame on our so-called liberal government for not only the denial of foriegn workers rights but stripping away our rights for its pretentious policies.

Earnest Canuck: I think you may be jumping ahead of yourself in your assessment of the make up of the two countries, especially on the European front. While I agree there are more French in Canada, that has more to do with the fact the French were the first Euros to colonize here, while their enemies at the time, the English colonized further south. The battle of Quebec and then the American revolution altered that substantially. That's when the Scots and then Irish and others started pouring into Canada, but both are well represented in the U.S. I can't speak for the Slavs, but I don't think they made up a large part of either country's population. I will admit there are relatively many more people of German background in the U.S. but there were German settlements early in Canada as well. As for blacks, I agree, but if Canada had massive amounts of arable land with a southern climate or had been populated as early as the U.S. this too would have been a slaving nation. In fact slaves were common in Canada until shortly after 1800 and this country's treatment of its Aboriginal peoples before and since makes me doubt that our water supply provided us with any special enlightening agents. I think the reasons why we are different are too many and too old to now really ever understand. Ironically, the capitalist Hudsons Bay and Northwest fur companies, who zealously defended their land holdings in the north and the west kept both areas almost free of settlement until long after the American plains were filling up. After the British took control, Canada became the two nations we still sometimes think we are today. Who would Maritimers, Lower or Upper Candians have revolted against. Given the time frame it was quickly apparent our greatest threat came not from within, but from south of the border. By the time the war of 1812-1814 was over Canada was a nation united in its own understanding even if the British continued to run the show for two more generations. Despite the author of this story's assertion that Canada doesn't have a history, there is much that shaped our understanding of who we are and Americans played a larger roll than most are even aware of today. The border skirmishes continued until late in the 19th century when the Irish Fenians finally embarrassed the U.S. into more diplomatic fence building with their northern neighbours. One big difference is that Americans wrote their own history and didn't shy from myth-making, while ours were penned with British understatement. That difference is clearly obvious in today's U.S. entertainment industry where everything is possible, while up here we shine at documentaries and current affairs that stick a bit closer to the facts. One thing we do have in common, though, are a few million people of Aboriginal heritage who survived two centuries of mainly European onslaught and can now rightly say their heritage is in both countries even if neither country will live up to their obligations to those citizens.

In response to the comment by Earnest Canuck regarding the similarity in "ethnicicity" I would also like to point out how Canadian culture/government encourages multiculturalism and the embracement of ethnic background whereas in the US an immigrant is immediately expected to become "American" and to bury their ethnic background and immerse themselves into the American culture. Americans are American first and foremost, a Canadian on the other hand will always tell you their ethnic background first as a part of their identity as a Canadian. This is another way that Canadians are uniquely different than their southern counterparts. Also, as a Canadian living imbedded in the heartland of the US it is those things in Mr. Morris' article that make me proud everyday of being Canadian.

If indeed you're "proud everyday of being Canadian" what in hell are you doing "imbedded in the heartland of the US"? Workin' for the yankee dollar?

Spineless!!!!!! anyone remember the avro arrow? HOW TURN COATS sold out the defence contracts to the US how the cowardly Americans sold us defective missles in place of a fighter jet that could intersept the U2 spy plane?. Another reason NOT TO VOTE CONSERVATIVE...................................... Welcome to the Arrow Recovery Canada website. We are the non profit corporation that has been actively searching for the missing Avro Arrow flight test models since May 1999. The Avro Arrow was a revolutionary jet interceptor, designed and built by the A.V. Roe Aircraft company of Canada. The Arrow was a plane of firsts, fly by wire, computer control, integral missile system and capable of MACH 2+. The year was 1958, and the COLD WAR was raging. http://www.avroarrow.org/

yikes....a little more love here please, and less of the "we are better" speak...

Typical pie in the sky attitude towards the reality of things. If we had had a civil war we would not now be having a sponsoship scandal. Simply put Canada is not a united country. Just ask anyone from Quebec whether or not they are a separatist. I deal with Quebecois on a daily basis and have for the last ten years. Their comment "Je me pays" Universal health care in this country is in name only. People in the Kootenays are dying now due to lack of facilities. Maybe down in the lower mainland where the hospitals are closer together it doesn't seem like that but in the Kootenays if you can't get into one hospital it is well over an hour ride in an ambulace to the next one. Try that while having a heart attack. Why strike for better health benifits when you already have 100% coverage? In the 70's and 80's the unions in Canada did go on strike time and again for better and and better health coverage. Auto makers are buying their coverage from private HMO's. In Canada we are all TAXED for it but not all recieve the same benefits (re: the Kootenays). Personal Liberties. This is just ignorance talking here. As a legal registered gun owner in Canada my home is subject to "inspection" at anytime. This amounts to an search of my home and ANY wrongdoing discovered at that time can be used against me. I have no legal claim to a private household. Internet music piracy is just that, piracy. If I walk into A&B Sound and take a CD I will be charged with theft. What is the difference if I take it from an unauthorizied internet site? This significantly reduces the amount of profit the musicians and producers make and who in their right mind would be in business without making some money. It's not a free ride people. You must pay for that talent. Yes Canada appears to be ahead of the US on women and gay rights but women in the US must stand up for their rights and demand them. That is what happened in Canada. The author of this article makes it sound like these rights just materialized out of thin air. This negates the huge sacrifices made by the women of Canada to get where we are today. Unfortunately today in the US you have a President who is using the Christian religion to further his Iraqi oil program. There is now little separation between church and state which is contrary to their Constitition. Some states have in fact condoned and legalised same-sex marriage but where forced to back down by the Bush administration. Ah yes the Kyoto accord. Canada was very hesitant to sign this document (we were #100 after all) due to the fact that to implement this in Canada at this time would bring about economic disaster. David Anderson is the southbound horse talking from the north end. Just ask any commercial fisherman in BC. It is nice to think that Canada is this perfect place to be but in reallity we are complacent, tolerant to the point of stupidity and so condecending towards new immigrants that we allow them to enter our contry illegally and then let them go on welfare, abuse the healthcare system and continue to commit criminal acts.

Ah- Western sparatist- women in America have always stood up for their rights- just as they do in any country...if they feel those rights are now being eroded, such a thing could easily happen here too. Some of the greatest feminists ever born are/were from America.

I'm an American-Canadian who immigrated in 1969. For the past 26 years I've been teaching high school history and geography and each year have eagerly awaited the plaintive cry, "Canadian histoy's so boring". My cheerful reply has always been, "Yes, it is and that's the point." The very 'boringness' of our history is what needs to be most understood. I, of course, was raised on the revolution, wars, assassinations, riots and more wars that make up US history. Canadian students have also "learned" this history throurgh our shared popular culture. The challenge and reward of teaching Canadian history is to ask this question: How have Canadians achieved as great or greater freedom, stadard of living and social cohesion as the US without all the violence that seems necessary to US histroy? They have the Boston Massacre, we have the Charlettown Conference; they have the Battle of Bunker Hill, we have the Quebec Conference; they have the Civil War, we have the Quiet Revolution. They kill each other, we talk to each other, and talk and talk. The very fact that our history centers around talking instead of fighting is not lost on students. They deal with this issue and face this choice every day. They can easily place this particular Canadian talent for negotiation and compromise into the context of today, one of the most violent epochs in human history. They take pride in that. Not to over romanticize our history, they also learn of the contradictions of our history: of the attempted genocide of the First Nations, of virulent anti-French bigotry, of BC's Asiatic Exclusion League, etc. Nonetheless, the overarching lesson of Canadian histoy is that our success as a nation rests on our ability to talk to each other.

Western Separatist:You are certainly correct in your assessment of the state of universal health care, but if you would stop feeling sorry for your little clique of east-Kootenay National Rifle Association members you might notice there is a similar health care problem in many parts of BC and Canada. While I suspect the $billion plus spent on registering gun-bearing conspiracy theorists who just don't trust government could have helped a lot of ailing Canadians, I also like the fact that guns are a little harder to acquire this side of the 49th. Now, as for civil wars. There is one taking place right now and your cache of equalizers or extenders or whatever you call them won't protect you one iota from it. The revolution is led by right-wing zeolots who hate to pay taxes, promoted by groups like the Fraser Institute, the National Citizens Coalition and affiliates of the NRA and kept in power by idiots, including a great many in the Kootenays who support politicians like Gordon Campbell. I realize you can't get a job in an auto plant in the Kootenays so you may feel a little envy toward unionized workers who have the collective strength to demand additional or extended benefits from their employer. To envy is human, so not to worry, but you can thank your lucky stars that Canadian auto plant workers among others in the `40 and `50s had the fortitude to stand up and organize into unions and demanded health care benefits which gave Tommy Douglas' CCF the benchmark on which to launch our current health care system. Every improvement was a struggle and today, thanks to those who who see taxes as a infringement on their right to greed, the struggle is to save that health care system. Your also right that Canada isn't Eden. In a perfect country we wouldn't be blaming new Canadians for our woes and we certainly wouldn't try to compare the copying of music off the internet to illegal possession of weapons meant to kill. So throw away your guns, lift your head out of those Kootenay mountain trenches and join the chorus of voices demanding proper health care. That emergency trip to the hospital, we all fear, will only get longer if you don't.

Anne Cameron. I have to tell you this: you make an erroneous assumption about the individual you slam for living in the US making the yankee buck (above). I know that person and it not by design that person lives and works there. IN fact, ex-pats like Secunda for example, people who are Canadian and wanting to stay that way, are NOT BAD FOR TYEE STATS if outa-country hits can be considered a good indicator next time somebody needs to make a case that the Tyee is reaching a wide (literally and figuratively) audience. You should sit back and take a double dose of your St John's Wort.

Dear Anne, I do think that maybe you should be a bit less judgemental of others.....and IF by chance you have ever heard "judge not lest ye be judged" you would be less likely to slam others who are expressing thier opinions on an open site. You are an embarassment to Canadians who extol tolerance and are more accepting of people who do not fit into your tight ass mold. It is people like you that refuse to look beyond their own little space that perpetrate a narrow minded view of the outside world. It would probably do you a world of good to extend your horizons and thereby be a better judge of things that go on outside your small minded world.

Interesting article, should be required reading for Campbell , Klein and Harris et al who are so enamored by the U.S. that the fine qualities of this country just don't register in their empty souls unless they can be pricetagged and sold for a song, an americanized song at that. The B.C. Rail deal of 990 years comes to mind; now that's beyond treason, mere lifetimes are no longer enough, now we're talking light-years. Bill Bargeman's posting is interesting as well. In Michael Moore's documentary , Moore questions why Canada has so few deaths by firearms in relation to the number of guns in Canada.Maybe it's because of the long Canadian tradition that Bargeman refers to of talking from the lip rather than shooting from the hip.

Further more, Anne, you wouldn't happen to be the Anne Cameron that recently wrote the article on Tahsis are you? That explains your above comment entirely. Mayber you should come out of your 50 people town and get off your soap box in Tahsis and you'd realize that not all of the world is content to eat berries and chew on roots and leaves while extolling the virtues of wilderness and pristine living on one hand while talking of taking violent action against those who don't see your view point on the other.

Democracy? Canada is a democracy? Where the hell did he get that idea? We aren't a democracy! We are a benevolent dictatorship founded on some stupid idea an english monarchist designed. Our country is headed for easy division unless central Canuckistan gets a grip on their over bearing ways.

Mike Summers, how can anyone take you seriously when you borrow phrases from pat buchanan?

Another thing Mike Summers, please explain benevolent dictatorship. isn't that an oxymoron? in theory a larger governement means a larger concensus which is kind of the opposite of a dictatorship. a dictatorship is something that we have in bc right now with cap't gordo and his merry band of idiots. also, isn't part of the reform bc philosophy for smaller gov't. that is, more governmental control in the hand of fewer individuals. again, doesn't that fall more into the dictatorship definition?

Ah yes, on one hand our rightwing friends elect politicians who promise to cut taxes (thereby eroding the tax base) while on the other hand they complain about the quality of the public programs that are directly effected by the tax cuts.If the health care system is suffering in Canada then stop underfunding it.If public education is somehow lacking,then stop closing schools.If crime is on the rise because of drug addiction then don't bitch about the detox opening up across the street.I have no doubt that our public programs are being purposely underfunded and undermined by powerful business groups,think tanks and various rightwing politicians at the alter of profit and greed with no thought whatsoever about the future of this beautiful country,and its a bloody disgrace.

Who said anything about promising to lower taxes. What if the taxes was better spent? What about social conscience and economic growth too? Can you have it all? If the WHOLE electorate was to have power over their respective MLA's...is it possible?

Michael, sorry. I should have responded to your comment about Pat Buchanan's quote. Actually, he refered to us as 'Soviet Canuckistan'. I loved it so much that I went to a local mall were you can have custom T-shirts made, and had them make me a shirt that proudly says " I AM CANUCKISTANI". Unlike so many who are passionately canuckish, I am not. I am not a federalist because of the obvious disparties in our country. I hate the PARTY LINE or it's an election policies and traditions of our system of governance. I hate the fact that two provinces dictate terms to the rest of the provinces. I hate one province being more equal than ALL of the others. De-stink society should be available to every province. We should not be obliged to edure french signage in BC. I hate the appointed senate. I hate the usurping of provincial authority by the federal government. I hate living in a dictatorship where the people cannot dictate their wishes on a governing party MID-TERM through initiative. If that were in place, do you think that there would be the BILLION+ gun registry, that protects criminals and not the recreational shooter? I think of the NON-REGISTERED hand gun that was used to murder a young woman in Prince George, and the man who was gunned down in Quebec while getting gas. The gun registry sure did a lot to help those innocents. I think of all the gang violence taking place in our country. Has the registry helped curb drive by shooting in Surrey? No. I hate the fact that the police are not able to stop the guy selling your kid some illegal drug because some schmuck lawyer has used some obsure argument that limits the police's investigations. I hate the fact that the government is uncontrolled in the spending of your money. One government orders a bunch of military helicopters, the next government cancels the deals...millions lost...then buys new helicopters, virtually the same ones for more than the orginal ones... It makes me want to scream! I'm mad as heel and I'm not gonna take it anymore!...without a fight anyway!

Mike, why so much hate? We vote and elect a government to represent us (at least in theory no?) Part of that representation is to take our tax money and put it to use, provide a social security net, etc. We live in a huge country where every time some of our tax money is spent on programs that are not health care, or education related, someone will always kick up a fuss. There is a lot perceived regional favourism going on, especially in the west. i don't see it. what i do see, is a mainstream media outlet in the west that makes damn sure that us westerners are angry at ottawa for ignoring us. Now to answer your hate-on for the gun registry. I love that oppenents hide behind the cost overruns as an exuse to get rid of the registry when in fact part of the overruns are due to non-compliance. Or, they say it infringes on their rights but will turn around and say that there should be cameras on street corners. don't you think that anything to help the control of guns - weapons disigned to kill - is a good thing. the registry may not deter violence, but at least it give the police another avenue of investigation. Another fact about the gun registry is that a lot of people who had guns sitting around the house gave up their unused weapons instead of registering them. i doubt that this was done in protest but rather out of common sense (i have two family members who willingly and happily gave up their guns). and i just love the term recreational shooter. that's got to be one of the most bizarre concepts in our soiciety. we need to address the root of our problems make, but unfortunately it's a concept lost in todays mainstream society. Oh yeah, the only french signage that i've seen in bc are at airports and other federally run places like national parks. oh, also at my local crepe restaurant where the waitress says bonjour as you walk in. how offensive eh?

Michael, Michael, Michael. You really are an innocent. Yes, certainly we elect our governments to take care of the day to day administration of our country. Imagine if you will, that instead of calling the organization, "government" we substituted "corporation". You as a tax payor, are a shareholder in this huge corporation. The governing party of the day is akin to a board of directors. The board of directors is empowered to look after those day to day affairs, and are answerable at the next general meeting, when their handling of those affairs is analyzed. They should be required to go to you at an extra-ordinary meeting if they are going to do something which will affect the long term stability of the corporation. In governance, that's call referenda. The ability to have an extra-ordinary meeting of the shareholders to have an immeadiate accounting of individuals on the board, would be called recall. Excuse me when I say...we ain't got none of that! And we need it if this country expects to survive. As in the case of BC, I learned in my Socials classes years ago, "absolute power, corrupts absolutely". Moving to gun registry. For the record, I don't own a gun, and I have no desire to own one, now or ever. One of those rights you seem to have a problem with is the collecting of old guns. The bulk of which would never be fired because of their age and mechanism instability.Non-compliance is a huge problem whenever government is involved. I own a taxi company and am having signifigant problems with illegal operators, using private cars as psudo-taxis. They aren't guns but compliance is still a problem. Do you have a problem with cameras on corners where drug dealers sell their crap? Where little hoodlums hang? I don't. I'm not doing anything wrong. Are you? Is it illegal? (moral judgements excluded since they are not the issue) Further, I know some gun collectors who took their guns to a local RCMP detachment for safe keeping since he was going through a messy divorce and didn't want his ex to be able to say he pointed a gun at me. The RCMP destroyed a number of antique guns that are irreplacable. Was that fair? And what exactly do you do for recreation? Do you BBQ? Do you heat with wood? I'm guessing that you live a life that is simple yet damaging to the eviroment in different ways, and an imposition on the legal rights of other individuals. (again, not an arguement on morality, merely legality which is different) Some folks love the sound of a rifle or handgun discharging. Some folks like to race cars. Here in the north, many folks like to four-wheel and snowmobile. And of course they have their detractors. Some idiots chase wild game with their machines. Does registering them stop the activity? Does registration of a vehicle stop illegal activity? Does the law stop goof balls from smoking dope? NOPE! I may have mentioned this in another section, I'm not a federalist. I hate having something crammed down my throat because someone a few thousand kilometers away might have their feeling hurt. It may interest you to know that I am able to say thank you to my patrons in the Cowichan, Haida, and Carrier languages. Also in Cantonese, Japanese, Korean,Punjabi, German, and yes French, Italian, Spanish, oh and two dialects of Philipino. Some of the languages I know more of. The long and short of it is that I have learned these languages firstly because I feel that I honour the ones that I at least attempt to communicate with. I never had some arrogant KWEE-becer force me to learn a dialect of french used only here in Canuckistan. Did you know that quebecois is nearly impossible for Belgian and Parisians to understand? It's right up there with Acaidian and Cajun. You may live in city. There are not many country restaurants up this way where french is spoken.

I'll make this one short Mike, since i'm @ work. i'm not trying to get into a pissing contest with you but if you want to think of gov't as a corporation then i'll ask you this: what other corporation has 30 million share holders? That's quite a number of people to please and pleasing just the majority (as referendum do) leaves out a significant number of "others". i have no problem with antique gun collectors. i guess my point is that i have a problem with the term the you used: recreational shooters. why do some people feel they need assault weapons? if they do desire them, then why do they bitch about having to register them? to use a question you posed to me about security cameras: do they have something to hide? and i'm not the type of person who criticizes people for being cruel to animals while i parade around in leather birkenstocks. do i do things that may do harm to the environement? yes, i own a car that i use to get groceries, i have some clothes that were made in china, etc. i am a consumer. But, i do believe that awareness goes a long way. Anyway, that's all for now. Adios.

Michael, I don't think you can ever make anyone happy. But wouldn't it be refreshing if your politician said to you that this or that is a very controversial subject and we want your decision based on the information that both sides of the issue will provide? Wouldn't it be nice to at least be a part of the process? I absolutely believe that folks could live with something if the majority had a chance to live with the issue. Do I have a problem with assault weapons? Yes. I would also like to see registration of all fire arms on the condition that there was some constitutional assurance that nobody was going to attempt to take my guns away 'for the sake of national security'. The Americans have the RIGHT to bear arms. They also have the right to own land. Another little picky thing that annoys the hell out of me. In this country, we own the first inch or so of dirt. The government owns the rest and is allowed by law to take it away from you at their will. Not done because it would prove to be extremely unpopular, but at their disposal none the less. I personally agree with you re animal skin garments. I enjoy my cotton stuff. I and most all of the reformers that I know are very conscious of the environment we live in. And yes, the activists of the past have been instrumental in bringing about the awareness in this area. As I have said, IF you check out Reform, we are simply people who want the process opened to the public. Political agendas such as Gordo's will be a lot more difficult if the people control the politicians.

Just a thought folks. On the other thread that I have stuck my nose into, I have made a suggestion.

Even if you find the bulk of our policies distasteful, wouldn't the democratic principles we espouse so dearly be enough to consider voting our way ONE TIME? If we get what we want, you will be able to recall us and put in who ever you like, and/or you may introduce an initiative which would be binding on the government to impliment, regardless of the platform or party in power. Would that not be refreshing?

I have no interest in career politics. I am only interested in democracy and control of politicians by the people. I remember the slogan from the states years ago, "POWER TO THE PEOPLE!" It's what I want to see. And it will put an amazing amount of pressure on the MLA to actually listen to the people he/she serves.

Secunda, take it easy buddy- Anne wrote two lines; don't think they warranted your harsh replies...

I am from what many have refered to as a party of Closed minded people.

Yet I am having difficulty trying to have an exchange of ideas and concepts, and all the while being ridiculed. I wonder who has the closed mind?

Perhaps one of you NDP/Green supporters can tell me how we are ever going to have really open government in BC when all of the parties elected in the last 20 (?) years has had problems with graft and corruption, despite all of the promises. If the electoral model that I have tried to encourage discussion about won't do it for you, then I ask you, What model will give the same amount of freedom from dictatorial government that we have been enjoying in Gordo, and at the same time, credit for at least a little intelligence to the voter?

Hi Mike Summers... Ideas, will not come out of individuals and be put into practice without community support. Community support can only happenen if the community trust a chosen leader(s). We trust no one. The ones that support the leaders in power are doing it for egotistical reasons (in some cases) or because they feel a duty towards citizenship, or belong to an organization that will benefit for having a certaian candidate in power. Remeber Mulroney elections, were A. D'aquino sent letters to the business community with sample of letter that business owners should write to their employees to scare them into voting for Mulroney the alcohoolic? "If you don't vote Mulroney and we don't get Nafta, our economy will be destroyed and you will be jobless." So unless we get out of our shells and get to organize at the grassroots level, we will have no results. Insanity is to do the same action expecting a different result. The reform is just another name for the chritian right in this country.

well here we go again, you have it right when you say we trust no one. It is precisley that which has me looking for provincial elected office.

I also trust no one. But, I have told my friends in Reform that if we have any hope at all of seeing these democratic reforms, we must go cap in hand to the voters and ask them for their precious vote...ONE TIME! We have see-sawed back and forth in this province for so long, one party enacts legislation, and the succeeding government undoes it and and puts in something else to replace it, worse than the first though. More domineering than ever.

Now the idiot Liberals are out of control, and I am frightened to thnk what they might be able to do to us before the day of the next election.

It's people like David Suzuki that as individuals, have accomplished much by their continued harping on a subject. So I on democracy.

Resistance to democratic principles will only delay the best of of society from coming out because power is concentrated in the hands of a few. That's why we are in the mess we are in now. Sooner or later, we all have to take a chance on trusting someone. Your turn?

We all spend a lot of time discussing party politics and how we can improve the system. For me, the system is the problem. I don't think it can be "fixed", I think we have to get rid of it, because the corporations control this one. The Alphonso Gagamaggot b.s. is yet another example of how the wealth of this nation winds up in the same pockets time after time...and the social programmes are deliberately ruined...what has happened to health care is terrible! And will continue as long as "privatization" continues ...

Secunda; Re your posting of 4/19/04, in which you take Anne Cameron to task for her reply to a posting from me. If anyone is guilty of promoting unpleasant thoughts about unpleasant people who come to kill wildlife simply for the enjoyment of watching it die, it would likely be me. Please go back and reread the Tahsis article and the chain of postings. Anne's response, at least from my read, was a quick, tongue-in-cheek suggestion that people do have the ability to take direct action if they so desire. She also noted that she is a senior, a grandmother and great-grandmother and rather unlikely to start blowing up boats, or kayaks in and around Tahsis for that matter. I would urge you to loosen up a bit on your own posterior muscles when you sit down to consume The Tyee. Admittedly, Anne did write the article on her community from the heart and didn't couch her distaste for what she experienced in enough polite middle-class euphemisms to sooth all the so-genteel readers. Personally, I like a person who can mix a bit of humour with irony to make a point, but then I also look at what is implied between the lines to keep words in perspective. I realize that can be a bit of a chore, especially when one's attention is distracted by the twitching of their own tight ass muscles. You may feel sore that Anne has since questioned how any sane Canadian would want to live in the U.S. at a time like this, to which your friend Claire Ess replied, ''it is not by design'' that you live there. If you are there against your free will, please speak up and ask for help getting home, but if you just happen to like the paycheque you and or you partner brings home south of the border, please don't get so defensive about you lifestyle choices. Anne's concern about Canadians chasing greenbacks isn't that off the wall for a whole variety of reasons I won't bore you with here. Your criticism of her isolating herself in a small community and relying on berries, roots and leaves suggests to me you feel she just isn't contributing enough to our consumer-driven economy. Are your investment certificates and other saving plans dependant on a consumer-led economy or is it jealousy that she and others have realized there is more to life than living on a treadmill in a crowded urban setting?

Anyways, back to the point-we're different than those Americans and vive le difference. Unfortunately we have a greedy cabal of politicos with the media tucked safely under their arms actively engaged in destroying this unique experiment called Canada. It is difficult to get the message out to the great mass of us that we are threatened by the loss of what makes us some of the most fortunate people on earth. The sad part is that it's Canadians for the most part that are selling the country out. They can't merely be misinformed naifs, can they? They must be treasonous, greedy crooks. I wonder.