Unnecessary regulation

Which Europe does without, somehow without descending into total debauchery. Perhaps we're all just too uncivilized, and need the BC government to dictate to us our drinking habits.

Why?

Continental Europe didn't experience puritanism so much as England and N. America. Where wine and other beverages are consumed without so much abuse, people have grown up with a sense of restraint.

Loved the article...

We need more like it. I suspect the overwhelming majority of people in this province would agree that liquor regulations in this province are *long* overdue for a major overhaul.

I agree: simple, small and reasonable changes to certain regulations could also make a big difference in terms of culture, liveability and Vancouver being an overall pleasurable and dynamic place.

Brief anecdote:

There is a coffee shop in my neighbourhood which serves beer. That is cool and everything as people are able to casually, perhaps spontaneously enjoy a beverage in a relaxed environment. Here is what is not cool: I have witnessed individuals (often from out of town) attempt to proceed about 15 steps to the front door in an attempt to sit on a sidewalk patio chair. I have often (cringingly) witnessed the barista run after the client ordering them to please return to within the perimeter of the inside area of the coffee shop as they cannot consume their beverage outside even though there are chairs and tables there (for milk, pop and coffee. I presume). They stand dumbfounded. These are the rules.

It’s not just the province, the CoV’s fondness for ‘regulating’ and ‘by-law-ing’ everything has got to change. (*I will credit the city with seemingly headed in a positive direction…but still with much work to do).

If anyone has travelled to Europe (and perhaps Montreal and a handful of other places on this continent) you will see the great part about them is the street activity and more or less unplanned public meetings and spaces. In my experience, these places are often characterized by what appear to be improvised sidewalk cafes; places very consistent with Jake’s dream.

I would add that there may be occasional nice examples in some U.S. cities; their approach to alcohol is quite puritanical in my experience. The better model to follow would be the European one.

My question is: why are there no politicians, aspiring leaders willing to (carefully) champion this? Irrespective of the obvious $answer$ - it would harvest lots of votes.

I am interested in your comments…

What?! It's so cute and I've

What?! It's so cute and I've never come across it... I live a few blocks away. Will have to check it out!

Responsibility and restraint through experience

Here on this continent what constitutes alcohol abuse is considered use. In Europe young people are introduced to recreational drugs such as this one in a responsible manner. This way they learn responsible use and conduct when using a drug with myriad side effects such as alcohol.

Of course there are the exceptions to the rule like the systemic problem of alcohol abuse in Finland’s youth, and other anomalies.

There will always be people who live with the concept “nothing succeeds like excess….”

The problem here is that a lot of people who choose to consume recreational drugs of any sort have not experienced them responsibly or in view of the general public.

Ignorance; there is no better way to injure yourself or others by choosing to experiment with something one knows nothing about.

The paternalistic nature of the archaic, antiquated liquor laws in BC ensure the furtherance of addictions and their accompanying social problems.
The government needs to realize and accept that people are going to use drugs. So give them all the information and let them make an informed decision.

Responsible use is learned; without experience, restraint will never be learned.

What about Costco?

Great article Jake.

I doubt it's a sign of changing laws for the niche market, but I hear that the newly built Costco warehouse in the Comox Valley has a liquor store. From what I'm told it's blocked off from the rest of the mega-warehouse, but there is no mistaking that it's affiliated with Costco. Perhaps this could be used as a precedent.

There is also a movement afoot to changes liquor laws to allow local small-scale booze producers to sell their products at farmers' markets, as they are able to in many jurisdictions south of the border.

There also may be hope in the battle BC Brew Pubs waged to allow them to distribute their beers beyond their licensed facilities. I'm sure there are limitations on the amount they can distribute, and I believe it took a long time to make the change, but it did happen.

Drunk Driving anyone?

Drunk driving is deadly, plain and simple. Increasing accessibility to liquor will only increase the amount of drunk driving that takes place. We should be restricting access to alcohol, not increasing it! After all, think of the children!

more restrictions anyone?

jcaputa
right on! and let us demand that females wear garments that hide their figures, so we can avoid rape attempts!
Oh. why not ban all traffic? it causes accidents!

You need a rural agency store

Move out of the city and buy a rural agency store: the Halfmoon Bay Country Store on the Sunshine Coast is a good example of what you can do within the current rules.

From the Liquor Stores website:

The BC Liquor Distribution Branch's Rural Agency Store (RAS) Program is intended to increase consumer choice and customer service by providing the opportunity for small businesses in rural communities to sell spirits, beer, wine, cider, and coolers. RAS's are generally established in rural communities where it is not feasible for a government liquor store operation.

Canada does have retro laws on alcohol

The new move to .05 is a good example. Impounding vehicles and suspending drivers at this level of alcohol is totally unjustified.

There are several Greater Vancouver RCMP on impaired driving charges at this very moment for example. Let's talk about that. Monty Robinson evaded the law by leaving the scene of a fatal accident taking a drink, then returning. The "last drink" clause is a well-kept secret. He killed a motorcyclist and has been charged with the obstruction of justice. It is hard to imagine a greater travesty.

That said, North American youth is not the same as European youth. Just look at the Vancouver Stanley Cup riots for proof. Why have no charges been laid, three months after the riot? There is no point in having laws then letting criminals off the hook. If any of these folk are brought to the courts, the charges could well be dismissed because it took too long. I have a suspicion that among the rioters, there were the sons and daughters of many influential people who would be embarrassed if their kids were criminalised.

Canadians push the boundaries. Retail grocers would very likely push the boundaries if they were allowed to sell alcohol, just to stay in business. In very small communities, it is perhaps a little different and the laws could be relaxed there, but on the whole, I prefer the old government liquor store approach.

Canadians have a habit of doing everything to excess. When it comes to alcohol, we are not very sensible. Many young people are total idiots in fact. The idea that they would learn moderation from their parents is nonsense. Many of their parents are drunks and they do illegal drugs on a regular basis. A fair number of cops don't know how to behave either.

16% margin?

"No one on the planet would consider running a retail store with 16 per cent profit margins …" That makes all of us local and independent Mac dealer crazy. Oh, and we compete with our biggest supplier. We can only DREAM of 16% margin> :-(

Siding General Store, Field, BC

what I miss most about living in Montreal - a reasonable approach to the selling and consuming of wine

there is a great little store in Field, BC called The Siding - I wonder what kind of license they have because they sell (really good) coffee and wine & beer, all in the same place

Cops and alcohol; a true story

A Toronto City cop told a story about policing the Carabana; he and four friends split a bottle of scotch in the basement parking lot, prior to the parade. They were all terrified of the West Indian crowd and swore an oath to rescue one another if anything "went wrong". The cop was 38, but he looked 58. He was the friend of a friend and he was absolutely terrified to go to work.

My point is that the people who are supposed to enforce the law also break it in grand style. Like the Vancouver cops who were drinking in the station after their shift. One was caught driving over the limit a few years ago.

Two Vancouver cops were charged with assaulting an East Indian newspaper delivery man recently one of them was drunk. I am scared of cops who are sober, never miind drunk.

There is a historic relationship with alcohol in Canada, and changing it would require a major shift in social behaviour. What happens in Quebec or England is irrelevant.

I have very little respect for the RCMP at this moment in time, but I would not want to make their jobs any more difficult than they already are. Making alcohol available in grocery stores in BC would make law enforcement considerably more difficult and it isn't worth it.

Let's get a few charges laid re. the Stanley Cup riots, then talk about liberalising the alcohol laws.

Cops and alcohol; a true story

A Toronto City cop told a story about policing the Carabana; he and four friends split a bottle of scotch in the basement parking lot, prior to the parade. They were all terrified of the West Indian crowd and swore an oath to rescue one another if anything "went wrong". The cop was 38, but he looked 58. He was the friend of a friend and he was absolutely terrified to go to work.

My point is that the people who are supposed to enforce the law also break it in grand style. Like the Vancouver cops who were drinking in the station after their shift. One was caught driving over the limit a few years ago.

Two Vancouver cops were charged with assaulting an East Indian newspaper delivery man recently one of them was drunk. I am scared of cops who are sober, never miind drunk.

There is a historic relationship with alcohol in Canada, and changing it would require a major shift in social behaviour. What happens in Quebec or England is irrelevant.

I have very little respect for the RCMP at this moment in time, but I would not want to make their jobs any more difficult than they already are. Making alcohol available in grocery stores in BC would make law enforcement considerably more difficult and it isn't worth it.

Let's get a few charges laid re. the Stanley Cup riots, then talk about liberalising the alcohol laws.

liquor laws

Montreal and environs has it pitch perfect. No-one has to drive to a liquor store. You can get beer and wine at any corner store or supermarket. and if unexpected company drops in, you can phone the local store and have it delivered, rain or snow by a kid on a bicycle.
Hardly the hell hole of speeders and drunks. There will never be enough police officers to get the drunks off the road anywhere in Canada, so take the car out of the equation and have local beer and wine outlets, at a much lesser distance than a kilometre apart.

If BC residents had a good handle on liquor consumption...

The RCMP would not have had to tell all the nearby liquor stores to close early on the day of the final game in the Stanley Cup Riotfest. If grocery stores had been selling liquor, they too would have had to close down early. That would not have been good for business, would it?

I think the BC liquor laws are totally retarded. You can drink at 18 in Alberta, but you have to be 19 in BC. That is really retro. Kids have to learn how to deal with alcohol and an extra year as an illegal drinker does not help.

On the other hand, the Stanley Cup Riots were fuelled by alcohol and other drugs. There were so many rioters that the cops are still reviewing the video footage, and have not got around to actually laying charges, even when they have confessed criminals in front of them.

I think this a particularly inopportune time to discuss liberalising liquor sales. Maybe we need to review the whole issue of the province hiring its own police force first; one that can actually enforce the law like they do in Britain, instead of horsing around with Tasers and running down motorcyclists whilst they themselves are (allegedly) impaired.

I bet dollars to doughnuts that the resignation of Barry Penner was directly related to this very issue. It must be hard to ride these issues out, knowing there is nothing one can do about it.

Fine wine and flipping cars?

Fish-counter: thank you for your comments. My article is about liberalizing the responsible sale of wine in our province. I can tell you that people rarely drink a bottle of fine wine and then head out into the streets to flip cars. I also don't subscribe to the nanny-state mentality of restricting the sale of booze because and assuming those people will act irresponsibly. There are plenty of avenues for destructive people to find access to alcohol - again, alcohol that I can guarantee rarely includes $20+ bottles of wine. I agree that there are strange social stigmas around the consumption of alcohol in our country, but I believe we can combat the irresponsible actions (e.g. binge-drinking) by encouraging healthy and responsible situations (e.g. having a couple of glasses of wine with dinner). Your distrust of various Canadian municipality's police force may be your experience, but it has little to do with the licensing of wine sales in BC.

At 4:00pm on June 15th the police forced the closure of all liquor stores in the downtown core. This did little to qualm violence and destruction that evening, because, as we were all reminded in the paper every morning for the next several weeks, there was a riot which accounted for over $1,000,000 in property damage, and far more than that in international reputation. If more small businesses were allowed to sell wine, would the riot of have been worse? I'm pretty confident that it would not have.

Thanks again for reading.