thanks for catching that typo Cyrille, very helpful

we'll fix it

Excellent article

Indeed, casino gaming is a parasitic industry that hides behind euphemisms such as entertainment sector, destination tourism or resort, and other such nonsense. It's an odious industry that necessarily depends on losers, misery and addiction, and the million dollar PR flack behind these enterprises are really effective at sexing up the entertainment aspect, and downplaying, even outright lying about the data on addiction and social cost.

Vancouver has so many wonderful assets that it sells itself just fine as a destination. It does not need a Vegas style misery den to generate jobs and tourism.

Thank you, Harvey, for your advocacy on this issue.

Good Article but I believe your fighting a lost war.

Here we go, you are all going to hate me, this is fine with me.

Gamblers have a tonne of choices to gamble in this Province already. You've got slots at the race track, a number of depressing smallish casinos, Lotto and Keno in bars/corner stores and the internet.
The internet is the big one for me, I can't imagine being addicted to gambling and having all these online casinos, crazy. The battle to save our population from the expansion of gambling has already been lost in my opinion.
So why do you all want to keep beating a dead horse? Especially a dead horse that is going to keep/bring some of the "Vegas money" here.
I enjoy going to Vegas. I enjoy gambling recreationally. I would enjoy having a very nice casino in town.
I've recently been in Melbourne Australia. They have a HUGE casino on the Southbank of the Yarra River. It's a nice casino. I went there. I gambled and had a drink. It was fun. I like fun. One of the jewels of Melbourne is their recently re-developed Yarra River waterfront. It had many Passerelles(pedestrian/cycling only bridges) and instead of being dark and quiet at night, it was alive! There were restaurants/cafes/bars all along it. It was a fun place to go for a summer evening stroll or out with friends, I loved it.
I would love this area of False Creek to end up like the Southbank in Melbourne and I think if some of you could see the Southbank, you might as well.
Let the Pigeon holing begin. Thanks for your time, Adam.

Adam

You commit a common fallacy in this debate - that two wrongs make a right. I don't buy it. I don't buy that the battle against expanded gaming in BC has been lost. I don't buy that existing gambling options in Vancouver and online make a mega-casino redundant, therefore okay. I think this is just another part of the PR strategy to pacify any potential opposition to the project.

And we're talking about more than gambling here. We're taking about a radical cultural/environmental adjustment to the city's downtown. Architecturally, culturally and ecologically, I can think of infinitely better things to erect than a Vegas style casino; the best thing might be nothing at all.

City land use.

I am not in favour of building a large casino next to the Stadium. This land is special and should be reserved for use by all citizens of all ages, not just gamblers and their friends.

A better use of the land would be to build a very large, multi-faceted complex completely devoted to water and having fun in it and with it. In the not too distant future, "water tourists" will visit Vancouver because we have something very scarce in many parts of our planet, an abundance of fresh rain water. Let us celebrate this abundance; turn loose BC's creative talent on this idea and see what much better solutions than a big casino are revealed.

@Adam_O

I agree with your sentiment about the appeal of Melbourne's Yarra river front, but False Creek does not need a large casino to be a buzzy and fun cultural mecca with stuff happening in the evening.

False Creek still has the potential to have aspects of Melbourne's south bank, or for that matter, like London South Bank of the Thames, which does not have a huge casino, but does have a National Theatre and its outdoor space with free shows, a skatepark under the Royal Festival Hall, the Tate Modern (with free entry), the British Film Institute, bars, restaurants, a secondhand book market under a bridge, etc etc etc.

There have been so many considered arguments against the casino/huge hotel development posed by people who are civically and socially minded and who really care about Vancouver. Part of the opposition stems from the issue of situating a casino directly next to the DTES which has particular circumstances of its own that would make a casino there an unhappy circumstance for the citizens of Vancouver.

@Adam_O

You're crazy to think that, in Vancouver, this mega casino is going to somehow spawn a nice, walkable, outgoing neighbourhood like other cities have.

Creating pleasant, bustling areas requires sculpting the public space, getting rid of cars, promoting small local pubs, responsible nightlife, and all the other things that this city and its residents seem allergic to.

A mega-casino is horrible, tacky, shitty idea, that nobody who knows anything about urban development would take seriously. It's only the greed and job security of certain individuals that's keeping this idea afloat.

right your glorious workers paradise

will be pavedwith the tears of all those sinner capitalists. Pie in the sky is pie in the sky folks.

I am on Social Assistance and living in despair and you want to take another way from me to find work. YOU ARE EVIL. Why are you condemning me to destitution for the rest of my life? I am suffering and need work NOW. Your hatred of me is awful.

PLEASE BUILD IT NOW!

We don;t need those parking lots there we need this Development.

Money does not fall from the sky boys and girls.

Money does not fall from the sky boys and girls.

This is a very STRANGE thing for someone who supports casinos to say, don't you think?

Two words

Voluntary Taxation!

I don't get all the claims of financial benefits. Money lost to gambling does not circulate and recirculate in the economy. It's only a benefit if outsiders come and lose their money.

MichaelT

Sometimes you're wierd. What on earth makes you think that somehow your tragic situation will only be fixed if you can "hang around" money long enough for it to rub off on you? It doesn't seem to have rubbed off on you in Toronto, and not here either. Maybe you should face up to the fact that you're doomed to be on the outside of the moneyed lounges the big-biz types hang about in, and start making your expectations match your reality. I predict you'll not only be a lot happier, but also a lot more productive, and people around here will enjoy your comments more when they've got some real life experience behind them.

Now listen: There are a large number of things the "dictators" in this country do not allow us to do: kite cheques, use a wide variety of drugs, drive fast (no matter how capable we are), go about without health insurance, drink in public places, roller-skate on the main streets, and many more.

So before you condemn the rest of us for our hard work to keep the city at least partly the way we've made it so that imports like you can come and enjoy it, have a look at what you're plaintive whine would do: bankrupt other hotels at which other people work, because the hotel industry in Vancouver is currently overbuilt by about 15% (Tourism Vancouver); increase traffic, pollution and waste in the downtown core when we're trying to distribute it elsewhere in the region; export gambling profits to the US where they don't do Canada any good; change the variety of entertainment in the city away from fitness and natural beauty to indolence and spectacle; and open the door wider to organized crime to increase profits.

Why you think for one minute that we'd trade all this for the possibility that you might get a modestly-paid job serving up drinks and cards to others as desperate as you is simply beyond me, and I suspect, a lot of others here too.

True to our nature...

"False Creek does not need a large casino to be a buzzy and fun cultural mecca with stuff happening in the evening."

Exactly! This is that same perverse obsession that make gardeners and nursery people do selective breeding for umpteen years in order to produce a blue rose, or a black tulip. Why bother? There are blue vincas and violets and borages and irises, and there are black(ish) pansies and hollyhocks. So, let tulips be white, pink, yellow and red, and roses likewise..

Same way we don't need for our fair city to try to emulate Vegas, as that city is in a desert and ours is not. I can grant that in the middle of the mighty Mojave, one may need extra-strong diversion to not go crazy, but here? Just peruse the horizon, and something will beckon. As for the water idea - 'they' are afraid we will identify with that, because then they can't so easily sell it behind our backs, as they no doubt intend. So, just keep on talking the way you do. Something worthwhile may certainly come of it.

Thanks Harvey

Well said Harvey!

Would council even be considering this casino proposal had not the provincial government, in the last days of the morally and ethically bankrupt Campbell government, chosen to upgrade the money losing BC Place Stadium and add a tall monsterous new roof at a total of over $600 million of the public's money?

When it comes to gambling I like to refer to John Ralston Saul's "dictionary" comments in his book, "The Doubters Companion".

He states, "When governments raise money by acting as croupiers, the systems they manage are degenerate and are closer to their end then their beginning."

John Ralston Saul goes on, "From the moment a government encourages its citizenry to finance the state by gambling-which means by idle dreaming-instead of through creativity, work and productivity, that state is in an unacknowledged crisis."

It is unfortunate that in the dying days of the publicly scorned Socred/Liberal coalition led by Gordon Campbell a choice was made to spend hundreds of millions of the public's treasury on a money losing sports stadium rather than sell the public land adjacent to the stadium and build affordable housing with it.

The future tenure of Robertson and his Vision team hinges on their decision. Will their decision declare a beginning or an end to a city that prides itself on its creativity, hard work and decent values or will they decide to take the dirty money from this dirty business.

Place your bets gentlemen and ladies.

Live and let live

Personally, I do think gambling is a sleazy and parasitic industry. But that's just my own view. I wouldn't want to push that opinion onto anyone else. Nor would I want to try to convince and co-opt a government to do that work for me.

But that's what is going on here. Lobbying.

And the fact remains that when a few people in power have the right to dictate what free individuals do with their own property, the lobbying wll be fierce on either side.

I don't want to live in a world in which a vocal minority or a do-gooding government body can dictate my choices or outcomes in life. Those who choose to gamble do so of their own free will; they are sentient beings and their views should be respected. So should the choices of the property-holders and investors in the proposed casino...

Stop trying to control other peoples' behaviour.

Majority should rule

Majority should rule. This wishy-washy thing of stop trying to control others works in the stone age where there is a vast amount of land and if I don't like what one group doing I can move on.

We live in the cities - the majority of us - therefore a project like this that will influence society must be voted on. Period.

We are surrounded by beautiful mountains. The view is unique around the world and we block it with ugly man made shit. That stadium is just a pile of shit and if the casino goes through I will avoid downtown any way I can. I may even think about moving out of Vancouver all together. I don't want to live in a city that has become so detached from its beautiful environment. It is a crime! Crime against nature, crime against common sense and crime against society, crime against harmony and crime against everything I can think of.

In a time when we are becoming more and more detached from nature a city like Vancouver should be treated as a gem. Instead we destroy it every way can. Totally idiotic.

Unfortunately...

...for the most part, majority does rule. That's how Hitler got into power so often and so long.

And that's why I don't much like democracy. Except I haven't found anything better to replace it with yet.

Still looking, though...

When all is said and done

When all is said and done, I don't think that Vancouver's city council's vote will be based on what is good for the area, but rather on which choice will give them the best chance of being re-elected this fall.

If they vote against it, the provincial government will find a way for the project to proceed. Senior government always finds a way to get what they want. Remember the arm twisting that Kevin Falcon brought forth with Translink to get the Rav Line approved ahead of the Evergreen Line. It took three votes, and I'm sure a good number of threats, but the now named Canada Line exists while the Evergreen Line remains a work in process.

The only thing that will stop this project is if the BC Liberal Party thinks that proceeding with this new casino will cause them to lose the next election.

stadium lands

We have some misconceptions about private land in Canada. None of us has the right to do whatever we want with the land deemed "private".

In cities as well as rural areas all land is under the control of local and central governments. Land use is controlled by the state through zoning, plans etc.

Land is taxed by governments and if you feel you have the right to withhold your taxes because of some erroneous belief about private land, then watch when your property is auctioned off to the highest bidder.

Land can be expropriated by governments and can be seized if associated with illegal acts.

We live in a collective society, somewhat individualistic, but we share some common beliefs in our society, like simply stopping at stop lights.

To simply associate all societal norms to fascism simply ignores the fact that societies can only operate as well as they do with shared and agreed upon rules, obligations and responsibilities and not all of these are based on removing peoples rights or determining who should be allowed to live and exist in a society as those supporting the Nazies did.

By the way, the stadium lands were public lands, lands the public had no say in the disposition of. But the public through its local authority does have a say when the land requires rezoning. A senior government can overrule the local government and it will be interesting to see how the provincial government intends on doing this if Vision actually listens to those who took their time to exercise their democratic rights in the rezoning public hearing.

Crankypants comment hits the mark in terms of politics. To whose political advantage will it be to turn down the rezoning application or to accept it or overrule it.