The phrase:

"Out of the frying pan , and into the fire" sounds about right, if this resuscitated Mussolini ascends.

Anyone seen many black shirts lurking about?

Skywalker

Crustry Funk is looking for any reaction at all to her(?) Alice-in-Wonderland posts. Ignore her(?) and she(?) will eventualy evaporate.

Christy, How about bringing

Christy,

How about bringing over some of Kadhaffi's soon homeless militias to enforce the superman's "efficiency" drive to make BC "more competitive". In other words, invite more Chinese commies to "invest", raise prices, cut wages and increase the "earnings" of execs ?

Ed Deak.

Gidget reincarnate?

Christy Fan appeared soon after the sudden disappearance of the late lamented Gidget.

Could there be a connection?

Where is "realisticman" and

Where is "realisticman" and his predecessors ?

Have they turned into Christy ?

I still don't understand why this electronic media permits the use of chickenshit phony names, when the papers got rid of them long ago.

The way I look at it, if anybody has to use a cover name in a democracy he, or she, has nothing to say.

Ed Deak, Big Lake.

This is remarkable...

References to fascism... Libya and Communist China too. Some bizarre reaction to my snark and sarcasm since I picked Christy over Kevin and try to lowball my criticism of Kevin Falcon.

But oh if you call the BCNDP socalists when the NDP is part of Socailist International ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_International ) and until the recent, valiant Egyptian uprising was allied w/ Hosini Mubarak (ibid)... "For The Love of Gord" brace yourself!

Wow! I deeply admire Kevin Falcon if he's going to provoke the BCNDP into bizarre websites and allegations. Kevin Falcon, the man who built the bridges and has the ideas and the vigor of a young man the enemy of the BCNDP more than the Christy Clark they bully by namecalling? Wow!

Where Christy Fan does...

...that wikipedia link make the NDP part of Socialist International? This is typical of your nonsensical posts. You support a member of a government that repeatedly lies and wonder why the rest of us don't have an orgasm at the mere mention of his name? Just another pig at the trough spending our money on his special projects.

Skywalker

Read the link, it's true. It's public record the NDP want to spread the wealth, grow government and raise taxe$. That's YOUR positions, right?

What's the difference

What's the difference between so called big government and the multinational corporate mafia, stealing the world blind ?

At least with government we can expect some benefits from our taxes , but what can we expect from the multinationals, except royal screw, lousy wages, part time jobs and foodbank lineups.

At least back in the 50s and 60s people were making decent wages and could buy houses and raise their children, no foodbanks.

By the way, I've been an independent business owner in BC since 1957, employer, and still own 2 registered corporations, albeit not really active now, but still on the files.

What is your business experience so called Christy ?

Ed Deak.

Christy Fan

It says a lot that you don't think for yourself and do your own research and instead follow the spin of your "trusted sources".

Which is why you believe the fairy tale that BC only went into debt in 2009. That means you actually believe we ran a deficit of $60 billion in the last 24 months. Hard to believe anyone could be that gullible...

Also, when you take into account Ontario's population their debt is smaller than ours.

ChristyFan's credibility = 0

As for the Canadian Taxpayer's Federation, they will never endorse the NDP because they're a political organization and not at all concerned with actual taxpayers. As their record bears out.

Christy and Falcon Fan

The village idiot will always complain that everyone is against him. He can't possibly admit to himself that maybe he is the problem and the people against him are the smarter ones.

The F word and Falcon

I keep seeing these comparisons with Falcon's name and the F word. This lovely little site seems to be resonating with many out there.

Why thank you...

To shelpsil for confirming the BCNDP are behind the smear site... nice to see it hosted on BCNDP servers. Very nice.

To Fiat lux for saying that Kevin Falcon is a Nazi or a communist.

To Frank for not understanding infrastructure debt.

To Skywalker for the psnl attack.

I salute the BCLiberals for defeating the BCNDP three times under Gordon Campbell & team.

I also thank the absence of moderation. It'll make it easier when it's time to call some pundit for the BCLibs about the "anti-social media" :-). PDF is such a nice thing...

My guesstimate is that our

My guesstimate is that our friend Christy Fan is a young kid, probably a student, who read a couple of books that opened a world of wisdom for him.

An economics student at SFU in the footsteps of Herb Grubel ??? God help us !!

I can't remember saying that Falcon was either a nazi or a communist, but that capitalists are of the same enslaving mindset, therefore brothers under the skin.

Under a long standing communist rule Harper and his ilk would be the biggest.

Learn to read and try to understand what's written my friend

Ed Deak.

Ed Deak.

Christy Fan

"To Frank for not understanding infrastructure debt."

Your credibility just dropped again. You're having trouble understanding debt. It doesn't matter what you put on your credit card, its all debt. The Liberals have not been going around building schools and hospitals like the NDP, instead they've been signing deals with private interests where the profits are guaranteed at taxpayer expense.

Being glib about it doesn't change the numbers. But then you ask the Canadian Taxpayer's Federation to tell you what to think so I guess being glib is the best you can do.

Christy Fan

Since you hate all things socialist you might like to read what Albert Einstein had to say on the subject.

http://www.monthlyreview.org/598einstein.php

ps, you'll love how it ends.

Falcon or Clark or any Liberal

Any one of the candidates for Liberal and one or two from the NDP are probably Fraser Institute whores. This is not news...this is fact...and high time to end this horrific economic policy before we are all serfs in the neo feudal world they are attempting to build...

I wish we had re education

I wish we had re education centres for guys like 'Christy Fan'.

Just because some credit

Just because some credit rating agencies have given BC a high rating, does it mean that we have to go deeper into debt ? As good "conservative" fascists always do.

In any case any debt rating based on the GDP is crap, because the GDP is a fraud and in BC's case the sale of the land from under the public's feet and the condo buying by imported commie capitalists are all accounted by braindead economists as "growth", while the homeless and foodbank lines are also growing.

But real facts don't count for these crooks and nuts, as long as the imaginary money figures are flying high.

Capitalism is dying and follows its fellow collectivizing idiot twin, communism to the
grave.

I've spent 45 years fighting communism from guns to intelligence work and with the written word, and can see the same rot coming to the surface with this bunch of collectivizing crooks.

I only hope the collapse will happen without violence and that there will be some people with minds and plans to save people from total destruction.

Ed Deak.

Astroturfers

I can't really believe any thinking person honestly feels that socialism is still a threat after sixty years of corporate fascism.
Those spouting such sentiment must be coming from industrial computers.

Typical Left...

If you disagree, you're "Astroturfers".

If you disagree, you're a fascist.

If you disagree, you're "neo feudal".

This is quite insightful.

Typical Right

Math and statistics don't matter.

Children and poor don't matter.

The environment doesn't matter.

All that matters is smiling a lot and helping big business.

And if you disagree you're an ally of Hosni Mubarek and/or literate.

Typical Frank

I've never said nor has the right that math, stats, debt, kids, the poor and the environment don't matter...

Kevin Falcon has a great environmental policy of supporting the carbon tax w/ some doubt about the oil tankers.

Christy Clark also supports the carbon tax.

Frankly this is one fun thread... it shows your aisle's true colours.

Socialist States Today.

Libya:
The Great Socialist People's Libyan Arab Jamahiriya.
Leader: Muammar al-Gaddafi.

People's Republic of China.

Cuba.

North Korea.

There must be a few others.

The list of former socialist states is quite long and would take too long to note but glorious places like Albania and Kampuchea come to mind and they are really just all becoming ancient history.

Perhaps Janet can tell us some really nice ones.

High Gear.

Some commentators are just pumping up the negative advertising because they think it works. Gordon Campbell and the Liberals of BC have repeatedly been praised by many environmental organizations. In fact, the carbon tax caused a rift in the NDP supporters ranks - as it will in the next campaign.

The NDP lost much of the enviro-vote and many in the party are not sorry.

Christy Fan

Yes, actually they have. The Liberals don't have a poverty reduction policy. Their environmental process weighs the environment against the money that can be made. That's why a lake can be destroyed in favour of a mone.

"Kevin Falcon has a great environmental policy of supporting the carbon tax"

That's not an environmental policy, that's a tax policy. The carbon tax hasn't done a thing for the environment.

"Frankly this is one fun thread... it shows your aisle's true colours."

Your browser is unable to access the last 8 years of Tyee articles I guess?

The only thing this thread shows that is new is that the Right waits to hear from the Canadian Taxpayer's Federation before they decide what they think about an issue.

r'man

I notice you've abandoned your attack on math and have decided to engage in mud-slinging instead.

I think that's a good strategy for you, math isn't your forte.

A note

Notice how people complaining about being called "astroturfers" think its great to accuse the NDP of being in bed with North Korea, Pol Pot and others.

Our great capitalists sure

Our great capitalists sure like their brothers in the Socialist Republic of China, and in other slave labour countries, that's why they're taking over their factories, want to build pipelines for the dirties oil, and pour in more investments, so that their commie brethren can come back with our money and buy up our resources and countries.

Ed Deak.

Not exactly true Frank...

The BCLibs have a poverty reduction strategy and it's called raising the min wage in the spring, growing the economy and making targeted investments + helping First Nations.

The Carbon Tax is environmental policy as well as tax policy. The tax shift from income to consumption & carbon means that people will have incentives to save and disincentives to consume.

ChristyFan

They have consistently refused to raise the minimum wage in their entire decade in power.

What you're claiming is that it will now happen, yet that depends on who wins the leadership. After all, at least one of the candidates says it should only rise gradually which means perpetuating the problem.

Every party grows the economy. The NDP grew the economy. Growing the economy doesn't fix poverty unless there's a wealth distribution scheme in practice, otherwise the benefits of the growth in the economy will go to those already at the top.

As for the carbon tax, emissions have increased since it came into effect. So if that's an environmental policy its a terrible one. Which would be expected from a government that is into destroying rivers and lakes in order to provide a profit for foreign companies and shareholders.

Frank, good discussion FINALLY

Thank you.

BCLibs now are going to raise the min wage, consult but do it.

BCLibs can grow the economy w/ trust from business, BCNDP never could meet that trust gap the way Tony Blair made it w/ New Labour in the UK. Creates a real mess... many people don't like the BCLibs now but can't stomach BCNDP (unless they have to). BCLibs on verge of pushing many people over to the far-left w/o change and proper framing.

Carbon tax is a good step in the right direction. So is the Canada Line & other mass transit investment. So is run of the river. It's time the BCNDP rolled out a major policy every month and got serious, not more naive. I expect an election call in September.

Crap

This is only a vote-buying policy, with the promises to be 'forgotten' in the first week after the leadership "race" is over. Not one word of this was on anybody's radar over in Gordo's General HQ for the last ten years, and anyone with so much as the conscience of a house plant who dared speak up about it was slapped down by the privileged inner circle and called a commie.

There's nothing in this weekend's circus except the sale of some remarkably cheap votes on a scale not seen since... oh, I don't know... perhaps since the last election for Chief Minister in Punjab.

And now it looks like all the lucky Lotto-buyers, having paid their $10 for a good dose of soma, may not even get their lucky decoder ring in time to use it!

I've seen better-run popsicle stands in the hands of six-year-olds. The Fiberals have nothing on offer except cheap advertising more appropriate to the PNE than the leadership of a province with a $60 billion debt staring it in the face.

Crunchy Fudge

From Frank to R/Man:

Obviously CF, you think going further into debt is a good thing. Got any ideas how this is going to be paid off? Or, like virtually ALL ringtwingnuts, you don't much care?

congrats

I am glad the author has linked Falcon to the great Socred Liberal 35% solution in the early days of the Campbell era.

Ministry administration budgets increased while public services decreased. Contracts were illegally torn up and so called cost saving devices like P3's were instituted.

Falcon talks about "courage" but here is one example of his "courage".

In 2003 the Ministry of Forest budget was cut by 35%. This included the budget for fire fighting services. The Ministry's administration budget increased though while the on-the-ground fire fighting was slashed by 35%. Was this courage or someone taking an awful big risk on behalf of the residents of BC?

The summer of 2003 was the summer of devastating forest fires. Crews and equipment were stretched too thin and small initial fires blew up to massive fires destroying businesses and homes in Barriere, Louis Creek and Kelowna in southern BC.

Despite the fact that equipment and personnel were inadequate for the fire season in 2003, the Filman Inquiry totally ignored the 35% reduction in the budget for on the ground fire fighting services that led to the destruction of peoples homes and businesses.

But Filman's record as Premier of Manitoba (Conservative) is much similar to Falcon's - Filman's slash and burn cuts to direct government services to those who provide the tax revenue (residents)during his reign would put a grin on the Falconator's face.

Perhaps adding Filman to Falcon's list of mentors would be fitting.

Falcon's courage is like the generals of the First World War who sent thousands over the walls of the trenches only to be mowed down by the machine guns trained on them. Their strategy was to deplete the arsenal of the enemy using human bodies. A terrible gamble and risk with other people's lives.

This is what Falcon represents to me.

I hope Abbott wins and places Falcon in the back benches...this little Napoleon deserves his St. Helena.

Frank's math

"Growing the economy doesn't fix poverty unless there's a wealth distribution scheme in practice, otherwise the benefits of the growth in the economy will go to those already at the top."

The wealth redistribution schemes of the former Soviet Bloc countries that became capitalist in 1989 wouldn't vote to go back. Just about everyone benefited after the introduction of a market-based economy and an end to socially engineered ideological ideas that only crippled the economies and drove the people into poverty.

This study describes the Czech economy and also mentions others that were in the glorious Soviet socialist bloc.

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:YcDxpvTN1JsJ:sreview.soc.cas.cz/uploads/581fcabdabac0ea3a004c40dca2509f744229a36_447_211VECER.pdf+czech+earnings&hl=en&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESiOzXoGH7ZsDRTuW9E7YEC89E8pV59H6lro2o_EpZnX_iG6oz4A0n5NUMaKGekgDzi61PLqLzLqtdrG9a0SFwHC5c34JVU5tRCGFBHA4IzwBnECpqZ2QkqWav0FovOaNmAbNpzy&sig=AHIEtbSNe-99HX3jKAW95rDnbrIsk1VYLQ

Perpetuating the old class and redistribution mantra is fortunately becoming understood as as a losers game that is only played by a diminishing band of losers because it just creates more losers. The Irish vote released today is just one more example where people had had enough of left leaning governments. The left leaning Fianna Fail are being almost wiped out.

RM I was involved in

RM

I was involved in intelligence work against the Soviets in 3 languages and still have some of my contacts.

People in the Soviet bloc wouldn't want to go back to communism, because it was a brutal dictatorship, but many are still worse off economically.

The EU capitalists will wipe out 7 million Polish family farms not even the commies could do.

In Romania the family farms have been reduced from 480,000 to 50,000 in 4 years by the EU.

The whole Eastern part of the EU is being taken over and colonized by Western capital, removing all independent decision making powers. People no longer can afford to own their homes, for the same reason we have here with Chinese "investors"

The difference between Soviet and capitalist colonization is that the Soviets have done it with bayonets, in the name of "freedom" and the capitalists are doing it with the perceived power of imaginary money, "created" from the air, in the name of "competitive free enterprise"

The world has always been ruled by imperialists using the BS by religions, and now, with the BS of ideological economic theories, but never to the extent of the present global crime wave, killing tens of millions every year with hunger and destitution, while the real criminals are "earning" tens of millions every year over the bodies of the dead.

Anybody who claims that Canadians are better off now with the "globalized wealth creation" fraud, than we were 40-50 years ago, is either a nutcase or a bloody liar.

Ed Deak.

Hard work, Ed.

"• In 2010Q3 Poland’s seasonally adjusted GDP1 grew by 4.7% year on year; non-seasonally adjusted GDP grew by 4.2%. 2010Q3 was a fourth quarter in succession to see an acceleration of economic growth. This was due to a faster increase in consumption and capital formation. Total consumption, after seasonal adjustment, rose by 4% in annual terms versus 3.7% in 2010Q2."

"What we have superior, is our hard work and stubbornness. Not everyone would make it in these conditions. But Poles are doing fine. Today, very few farms are commercial, most do not produce anything for sale. In order to be able to change this structure, an alternative way of life must exist. A young person, who finishes higher education, does not necessarily have to want to work on the land. He or she can transfer the farm over, of course, on favourable terms, and find employment elsewhere, where his or her knowledge can be utilised. ..."

http://www.polishmarket.com.pl/document/:24557?p=%2Flate%2F

Poland also now has 669 organic farms. That's quite a jump from the 27 they had in 1990.

http://www.organic-europe.net/country_reports/poland/default.asp

Poland will not be going back to the brotherhood of communist nations. Remember Solidarity?

RM There's no such thing as

RM There's no such thing as the GDP. It is a fraud, because it measures damage and poverty creation as "growth", as long as some crooks steal all the benefits. The same racket the Soviets have been using until people woke up.

When the government sells the country from under the people's feet, as here in BC, it is "growth of the GDP."

I'm not talking about communist and capitalist propaganda crap, both at the same ideological, mental level, but what real people tell me, now openly and without secret maildrops.

The corruption in eastern Europe is unbelievable. The countries and people are broke

I hope you, the faithful, will wake up one day, as I had to many years ago, to the royal screw people have been subjected through history with the forcefeeding of "faith" and start thinking logically.

Ed Deak.

r'man

"The wealth redistribution schemes of the former Soviet Bloc countries that became capitalist in 1989 wouldn't vote to go back."

Which has what exactly to do with Canada and the 21st century?

If you want to argue this I will happily overwhelm you with links to North American data over the last 30 years that shows the rich have got richer as the economy grew and most other people stayed the same or even fell a bit.

You know that which is why I bet you will suddenly disappear rather than put up a fight.

The Middle East

Looks like one of the big catalysts for change in the Middle East is wealth redistribution.

Mubarak's money is being hunted down, so will Quadaffi's when he's gone, other countries are promising reforms so that more of the wealth flows to those among the population who don't have jobs that allows them to get rich from corruption.

So far I have yet to see a single legitimate protester demanding economic status quo.

Frank

"Which has what exactly to do with Canada and the 21st century? ...

"Growing the economy doesn't fix poverty unless there's a wealth distribution scheme in practice, ..."

Er, Frank, you bought it up just a few hours ago. So, I guess it's up to you to tell us what it has to do with Canada and the 21st century. Although we all know that you passionately believe that redistribution of wealth will easily solve all the problems in our known world, as well as all those in any world that might ever become known.

It's your old class dividing beard tugging old saw, Frank.

r'man

I asserted that growing the economy doesn't help people. You need a wealth distribution scheme in place if that is the goal.

You then brought up the Soviet Union which fell 20 years ago. Perhaps we could talk about Hitler's policies next since you're such a good right-winger? Do you agree with him on the need for massive amounts of slave labour? Where do you propose to get these slaves? Attack Poland?

So if you want to argue against wealth distribution schemes such as old age pensions, EI, welfare, medicare, public education and so on, do so without raising the strawman of the old Soviet Union.

From the US

From a review of the book, "Winner-Take-All Politics" subtitled : How Washington Made the Rich Richer--and Turned Its Back on the Middle Class

By Jacob S. Hacker and Paul Pierson

"Jacob Hacker and Paul Pierson tell a story that is at once familiar and unfamiliar. The familiar part is that over the past 30 years inequality in both wealth and income has grown dramatically in the United States.

Since the late 1970s the wealthiest 1 percent of the nation's population has pocketed more than 35 percent of the real national income growth, which is more than the bottom 90 percent of the population combined. Or looking at it from a different angle, between 1979 and 2006 the bottom 20 percent of the population had real income growth of 0.3 percent and the middle 20 percent had real income growth of 0.7 percent, while the top 1 percent enjoyed real income growth of an astonishing 260 percent."

From Canada

"According to The Rise of Canada's Richest 1% - written by Armine Yalnizyan, CCPA senior economist - Canada's wealthy are taking more of the gains from economic growth than ever before in recorded history.

The last time Canada's elite held so much of the nation's income was in the 1920s, says the report. Median incomes, meanwhile, have remained stagnant.

The top 0.01 per cent represent 2,400 Canadians who earn at least $1.85-million. Nearly 75 per cent of their income comes from wages. Similarly, the top 1 per cent, or 240,000 Canadian who earn more than $169,000, receive about 67 per cent of their income in wages.

Veall, who provided previously unpublished tax form data for the report, suggests that the income shift can be explained in a number of ways.

"One view is that corporate boards have allowed CEO salaries to jump because they were climbing elsewhere," he says. "Another reason may be that CEOs, known for being good communicators, are more effective and therefore more valuable in the digital age because email and mass media allow better contact with employees and the public."

A similar phenomenon can be seen in Australia, New Zealand, the United Kingdom, and particularly the United States, he says. But non-English-speaking countries such as France and Italy don't show the same inequality gaps."

The link :
http://www.physorg.com/news/2010-12-rich-richer.html

Yes Frank, but don't forget

Yes Frank, but don't forget when one guy makes $35,000 a year and the next one $1.million, their average take home, and I don't call it earnings, will be $517,500, as any good , so called "economist" can tell you.

Which means that it makes no difference if the "growth" is taken out of the country by "foreign investors", while the child poverty rates and the foodbank lines also grow, it is still GDP and "net growth" in their warped minds.

Going back to the Soviet bloc, the former biggest communists are now the biggest capitalists and own the biggest villas and yachts on the Mediterranian are now owned by them.

So much for economic statistics.

Where can now the so called "wage earners" buy houses in Canada, whereas 40-50 years ago just about anybody could and executives still made good salaries and corporations good profits?

But that wasn't good enough to the rulers and their political pimps.

Ed Deak.

Ed

Agreed, which is why I like looking at the median income instead of the average income. Its a much better stat as its not as warped by a few people making obscene amounts of money.

"Where can now the so called "wage earners" buy houses in Canada"

Agree there too. Its getting harder, there was a study recently done about the Toronto region and the reducing of the middle class. Instead, the authors assert we're seeing more poor and more rich.

Frank

I realise you lost your bet but it's not just all about you here, there are others too. I was responding to a comment from janetvickers and her call for socialism.

I guess it's all a disaster really. Did you see that latest huge poll commissioned by the left-leaning Toronto Star? They nailed it!

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/945363--conservatives-looking-at-a-majority-new-poll-shows?bn=1

Hey Ed. People are still buying homes in Vancouver. In fact, I can tell you that people working for the left-leaning think tank mentioned above just recently bought a home in east Vancouver. Here's another extraordinary sale, with many offers, it sold way, way over asking price:

http://www.martyhomes.com/Properties.php/Details/588

r'man

Then you should have mentioned Jane in your post instead of going with the subject line "Frank's math".

Once can I'm sure easily see why I thought you were talking to me. That and quoting me in the body of your comment.

But if you want to pretend you were arguing with someone else, go ahead.

I'm tempted to ask what bet you're talking about but I guess that was probably directed at someone else too.

R/M old man....

So just where did the capital come from to "become capitalist"? In the old communist era (where everyone owned everything in common) just who did the "capitalists" that emerged pay their capital to?
If you want a glimpse into the "prosperity" of the ordinary citizen in today's Russia, I would advise you read this series of books:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arkady_Renko
And while some of them may yearn for the good 'ol days, most of them just want a chance to live their lives - something the oligarchs would not prefer. 1000 years of slavery does something to the character of a country, n'est pas?

RM what bet did I lose ? In

RM what bet did I lose ?

In any case why aren't you watching the TV and praying that Falcon wins ? They should take away your party membership card!

Of course, people are still buying homes, but not the same range of people who were buying way back. We bought our first in Vancouver in 1967, for about $6,000, with $500. down and $45/mo.

With the general inflation of something over 1,000%, since these criminal economic racketeers took over, that house should be about $60,000 now and executive salaries, say up to $500,000 and not $5. million.

Ed Deak.