The Zalm

Can we recall the zalm from political life too? He doesn't exactly have a history of being the most honest politician in the history of BC.

Gordon Campbell will never stop lying....

Or sheating or screwing the little guy....Read about his latest lie revealed today...

http://powellriverpersuader.blogspot.com/2010/08/gordon-campbell-lies-again-this-time.html

RECALL IN THE FALL REGARDLESS OF CAMPBELLS DELYING EFFORTS

RECALL IN THE FALL - that is the way to go folks. Even if we only get 10 or 12 recalls through, it will be enought to tip the balance and bounce the BC Liberals (Neoliberalists) out of power.

The other very important thing the RECALL IN THE FALL does, is send out a strong message to the big businesses, that THEY NO LONGER CONTROLS THINGS - the people of this province will have a say in what happens from here on in. That is all important - and I am sure that the businesses realize this, though a lot of us lowly folks probably don't.

So, the big questions is - are we up to taking on big businesses, corrupt government and it's lying leader Gordon "the Liar" Campbell ?? My gut feeling says YES and THE LIAR CAMPBELL KNOWS THIS - so don't expect any fairness or normal reactions from him. Expect the unexpected - he will do his utmost to desperately stay in power - most narcissistic egomaniacs are wired like that .

Thanks, just had to say my piece too.

mariner

As much as I would love to

As much as I would love to see all the liberals plus Carole James recalled i doubt any will be. It is too high and the silent majority still supports Gordo.

Zalm also needs to start recaslls in swing ridings, no sense recalling Campbell or any other liberal in a liberal strong hold like the Peace, Okanagon or the valley as they will just re elect them back..

Plus we do not seem to have an opposition in BC either anymore. I hear Zalm all the time but nary a peep from the NDP...

?

"It is too high and the silent majority still supports Gordo."

Really? That's not the impression I get from the polling... I think it's a stretch to say the majority would support the BC Liberals even under a new a leader.

Who's your daddy

It is highly amusing to watch Tieleman and other sundry NDP supporters marching in formation behind Bill VanderZalm. Who'd a thunk it? A de facto proof of the utter failure of leadership on the part of one Carole James...remember her? Who's your daddy now?

Toquer wrote: 'It is highly

Toquer wrote:

'It is highly amusing to watch Tieleman and other sundry NDP supporters marching in formation behind Bill VanderZalm. Who'd a thunk it? A de facto proof of the utter failure of leadership on the part of one Carole James...remember her?

Isn't it refreshing that some mature adults - like Carole James, Bill Tieleman and Bill Vander Zalm, for instance - are able to put aside petty, political differences and unite to do the right thing?

Who'd a thunk that non-egomaniacs could find common ground? Who'd a thunk that normal people could put ego behind the common good?

Wouldn't it be nice if BC Liberal MLAs were equally mature? Just imagine a world where BC Liberal MLAs had the courage to tell Gordon Campbell what they REALLY thought of the HST? Imagine a world where Gordon Campbell cared what his MLAs thought about anything?

The reaction of the BC Liberal caucus is "de facto" proof that conservatives are sheep.

toquer still loyal.

As I said the silent minority ...and they still have only one desperate play left. The comments on the strange coalition of effort between some past political opponents. Who would have thought that the arrogant lying Campbell gang could have united these people. But he did, and to do that makes him worse than any Premier of BC ever.

So what is it going to be? Every Liberal MLA has a choice. They can go down with the ship kissing Campbell's arse or they can retain some integrity and maybe survive the public's anger by thinking for themselves. They certainly are not doing that now. Every time you hear someone might be thinking about the consequences they are whipped into line obedient to the master. The master who has completely misjudged how much shite his constituents will tolerate.

Tangler

Well, on the radio today, in an interview with David Boyd of SFU, Campbell was heard to brag that he will ensure that BC has the safest drinking water in all of Canada. Mr. Boyd said Campbell like to talk the talk, but seldom walks the walk - and in the meantime, BC has one of the worst reputations for water quality througout this great land.

Is the boil water order

Is the boil water order still on ,over at white Rock

some say

I have heard some say gordo will step soon as he can stand the heat Wouldn't that be great Hummm I wonder if any of the others might follow or even go without him just to support the voters If they want their jobs Lets keep the emotions high

80% didn't sign it

Something like 80% of voters didn't sign the petition. No where even remotely close to a majority. The HST is no big deal. Get over it. 2 bucks more at a restaurant. It's time to realize that the NDP will raise your income tax and throw the money down the drain. Don't be an extreme leftist, use common sense.

Skywalker said...

"Every Liberal MLA has a choice. They can go down with the ship kissing Campbell's arse or they can retain some integrity and maybe survive the public's anger by thinking for themselves."

An intersting idea, but think of the consequences. Every elected man or woman for themselves, pushing their own agenda. Confusion everywhere. The politicing that would have to go on to get an agreement to pass even the most insignificant of laws.

I don't think it would work. I certainly don't agree with Campbell's autocratic system of rule. But without party leadership you would have what the NDP has today..... perhaps only a small chance of getting enough members elected to form the next government.

Reality check

Rodney King, your favoured governing body, Campbell & Co. were elected with not many more votes than the number of people that signed the petition. By your standards does that mean that the BC Liberal Party didn't win the last election? You can't have it both ways.

According to an article in The Golbe & Mail by Justine Hunter, John Winter is still trying to short circuit the petition. Her article states "John Winter has called on the Attorney General, Mike DeJong, to render a decision on whether Mr. Vander Zalm's proposal to repeal the tax is legally valid". First it was clarity, now validity. It seems to me that Winter and his Howe Street buddies are drooling over the $1.9 billion per year they will get than Campbell & Hansen were over the $1.599 billion bribe Harper offered to BC.

If it wasn't so disastrous to the public, it would almost be funny. Here we have a federal government bribing a provincial government with taxpayers money in order that the provincial government can pass on more taxpayers money to big business. I think they call this the double whammy and the public gets to foot the bill.

It is likely that none of the recalls will begin until the new year to avoid the Christmas festivities, so I suggest that we should boycott as many of the members of the six associations as we can. Companies do not go into business to be altruistic, they are there for only one thing, which is to make as much money as possible. Therefore, one can assume that if we can affect their profits, they will take notice and either choose to leave their respective associations or pressure the leaders to back off. Maybe Campbell & Co. can ignore the taxpayers of this province, but I doubt they will do the same for their business buddies.

A reality check for Recall 2...

From Previous Post...

Which is some depressing I know, :-) but no less the reality for it. There is some anger growing out there, no doubt, and it IS destined to grow in all likelihood (which is why, in my view, the real motivation behind all the moves around police state and new prisons building etc.), but largely still, it is in a state of something similar to suspended animation. Capitalism will suddenly find a magic formula by accident or design, and everyone will go back to the way it was, which I think is almost certainly not on, or the economy and the politics of the system will continue to deteriorate to that place where the issue of critical mass "almost" takes care of itself. Or certainly becomes easier.

Meanwhile, those NDPers with their own axe to grind, and others who take some value in it out of desperation, should likely still do this Recall, if they can in fact get it off the ground with the old Socreds. :-) (Which says much about where the current state of the "Social Democrats" in the NDP are at.)

I will watch it with some interest, as a I say, for its confirmation value of my analysis, or conversely, its demonstration that I have miscalculated/underestimated the public mood. Though even if the latter, replacing the Liberals with the New Democrats, or in some kind of quiet alliance even with the Socreds, is significantly going to change jackpoop. For that, there has to be quite another kind of development occur, more favourable to the revolutionary left. :-)

The End :-)

Harper and Campbell

The introduction of the HST is Harper's idea as we all know by now. It's political suicide for Campbell to force the HST on BC especially the way he did it. He lied and deceived the voters before the last election and he had to know the fallout would affect his political career negatively. He'll never get reelected after such a betrayal. So why would he do it?

I believe that Harper and Campbell made a sweet heart deal before our last election. Campbell would force Harper's HST on us and when the shiet hits the fan Harper will give Campbell a reward for falling on his sword. Possibly a senate seat or a safe Conservative riding for Campbell to run in at some point in the future so he can become a federal MP in the Conservative party. Then maybe a cabinet position if the Conservatives remain in power. Anyone paying attention to Campbell's policies over the years can see he's been a Conservative wrapped in the Liberal flag the entire time.

Vander Zalm's legacy

There's different comments about why Vander Zalm spear headed the anti HST drive. I heard him during an interview last week and he said the recall initiative was his idea when he was still premier of BC but he lost the next election to the NDP before it could be introduced into law. The NDP took that idea and passed it into law. Vander Zalm considers it a good law, maybe a little too tough but a good law and he's proud of it's success. So his efforts to see that law succeed the way he envisioned is a way to cement his legacy in BC's history books as a good politician. It'll help to polish his tarnished image from his own political blunders that he's so well know for.

As far as I'm concerned I don't care why the Zalm took this on. We all should be grateful that he used his influence to help us out when we needed it.

Enjoy the party

Grania wrote:

"I am getting quite disgusted with the constant comments on Vanderzalm's history. It is what he can , and has, done today that is relevant. We are all capable of growth and change"

Maybe, but tax rage has been a staple of cranky right wingers since the earth cooled (a couple of thousand years ago, by their account....). So the Zalm is being entirely consistent with his past on this issue. Perhaps it isn't him who has changed. Perhaps it's something more troubling: certain 'leftists' have become more like him. Enjoy your seat at Zalm's tea party: the price of admission is, alas, non-refundable.

history correction

The Zalm never lost the election to the NDP Conductor274. That was Rita Johnston. The socreds dumped him prior to the election b/c he was too scorched even for them. What does that tell you.
But he attempted a comeback in 99 with....the Reform Party. Just gets better all the time doesn't it.
But if everyone thinks thats all irrelevant, fine, no problem here.
I just don't want to hear any more preaching about how the left marches to a higher moral standard than the neocon guttersnipes or I will direct you to look in a mirror.
Deal?

Conductor274

The recall and initiative idea came up from the socreds. The referendum to ask the public if they wanted it came up under the socreds. It was the socreds in power when the election and referendum came up. The NDP then had to deal with the issue that had been passed in a referendum by a substantial majority of the voters.

As for the left marching to a higher moral standard you are grasping at air happy. Nothing the NDP ever did comes close to two outright lies to get elected plus a whole lot corrupt deals and paybacks to liberal/conservative friends that make the fast ferries a mere drop in the ocean.

Nice try happy but so damn typical from right wing "guttersnipes."

No problems Skywalker

I'll mark you down in the "I'm in denial" column then. I expect you will have lots of company.
Sorry, but Gordo's "failure to communicate" is no different to me than Glens "optimism". I don't have a link but if memory serves correct I recall the judge in Glens case stating "critical information was with held from the Public". It wasn't illegal, before you jump on that. Neither was what Gordo did.
But they were both dirty politics. And the NDP takes a back seat to no one in that department....unless you are REALLY in denial. Does the term "bingo" ring a bell?
(show a little respect please. I prefer "ilk" to "guttersnipe")

Happy.

I expect people like you will always compare a few issues under the NDP and think that everything Gordon has done since 2002 is therefore sanctioned. Gordon's failure is not of lack of communication. People like you don't seem to get it. Gordon's problem is one of dishonesty and corruption and catering to special corporate interests to the detriment of British Columbians. He lied about a "structural deficit, lied about BC Rail, lied about budget deficits, and lied about HST. Even when he talks about the HST now he is still lying

As for the other, the judge dismissed the charges. Forgot that did you? You refer then to something that happened some 15 years before the NDP was in power and happened to some members who were NDP on Vancouver island. The Party paid back all the monies in question when the amounts were determined. I recall Campbell saying he would check to see if his parties had also been guilty of shorting the charities. We never heard a damn word more about it from him and the fact was that at the time this happened, the rules governing bingo and charities were much more lax. He obviously didn't look very hard and had the advantage that the Socred party, of which he was a staunch member, had by then taken over the BC LIberal Party and the issue conveniently buried.

Campbell is the master at sleaze, no one trusts him anymore,his government consists of a bunch of puppets and there are a few of your ilk left to defend his lies. No surprise there

A few comments...

There is no real mainstream "left" party in Canada. I have to laugh at those folks that call the NDP a "radical" leftist party. The NDP are supporters of capitalism like the other two parties...and even calling them social democrats is stretching it these days.

A real leftist party is Germany's Linkspartei (Left Party). They are unapologetic socialists and the fourth largest party in Germany. They're not perfect of course but they present a real alternative to the mainstream "social democrats" (similar in nature to our federal NDP/Liberals) and the conservative parties.

From Wiki: "The Left aims for democratic socialism in order to overcome capitalism. As a platform for left politics in the wake of globalization, The Left includes many different factions, ranging from communists to social democrats. The Left has not yet adopted its own party program, although it issued a detailed electoral program ahead of the 2009 federal campaign."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Left_%28Germany%29

And.....Skywalker

You appear to be having trouble comprehending. I haven't forgotten anything. I said flat out what Glen did was found to be not illegal. Can't you admit it was dirty? If you can't even make that small step theres no reason to continue. I'm willing to give where its obvious the libs have shortcomings, you dismiss every dirty thing the NDP ever did as yesterdays news, forget about it, lets just bury it.
Don't preach at me about special interests. We know very well who the NDP's special interest is - BCGEU and CUPE, a small minority of all the real "working people" in this province. Why are they so special?
Quite the attempted smear about the Libs ripping off charities too like the saintly NDP. I suggest you post something to back that up or withdraw. I've been man enough to do that before when I was wrong but I won't hold my breath in this case...
Heres anoher one to chew on - does the name Laxton ring a bell? You know, payoffs to insiders and all...

BC First. Premier Bill Vander Zalm esq.

Has a nice ring to it, doesn't it. Check this out Skywalker, I know you are relentless in your put downs of Canwest (Postmedia) but the fact is Palmers been brutal in his attacks on Gordo and the HST, for the same reasons I believe - dirty politics - so you can't just dismiss him as an MSM stooge, much as you'd like to.
If you believe what he's saying - that the Zalm is using the HST to further his future political ambitions - then think about it.
The person you are cheering for to oust Gordo could be plotting his return as premier of a far right party that makes the Libs look like pikers. Do you think there will be a Minister of Shovels in this new regime? (and you thought Gordo was tough on the public unions. Ha!)

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/political+party+splinters+over+waits+wings/3440167/story.html

Say what you will about the NDP...

...but their 1990s scandals are pretty tame compared to Gordo's Liberals who are selling every public asset the province owns to their big business pals, shifting the tax burden from wealthy people and corporate sector to the middle and working classes, slashing social programs and throwing the poorest and most vulnerable to the dogs etc.

Yeah, the NDP cheat, lie and do all the things that we've come to expect from political parties...but their transgressions pale in comparison to the all out rape of BC that the current Liberal regime is engaging in.

Claiming the Liberals and the NDP are equals when it comes to screwing British Columbians is just plain disingenuous.

I think you could be bang on C-man

when you said
"I really think Zalm is testing the waters for the possibilities of a resurgence of the Socreds, as a "business friendly" alternative to the Liberals. Depending on how this all develops, you may very well see a whole lot of Socred candidates appear, under a "new party" banner or even as Social Crediters."

Yes, its becoming clearer now. The Zalm rides the anti HST for all its worth and causes a spilt within the Libs. The likelyhood of him becoming premier again with a new party are remote though, to say the least. But that doesn't matter. The vote split allows the NDP to slide in the back door to Victoria.

Ah yes, you are the sneaky one Tieleman. Its actually the Zalm and who's being used as a stalking horse to break up the Libs. He can't resist being front and center. And thats why Carole is silent. Intrigue upon intrigue
Am I warm?

Moving to a new "Serious Left"...

"There is no real mainstream "left" party in Canada. I have to laugh at those folks that call the NDP a "radical" leftist party. The NDP are supporters of capitalism like the other two parties...and even calling them social democrats is stretching it these days." Ramone

The NDP, the party of so-called "social-democracy" in Canada, has in fact long since become a second mainstream "liberal" party of capitalism. Such that it can contemplate an actually formal alliance, leading to a union with the centre-right Liberal Party nationally. And effectively, under Carole James leadership time, co-operating with more or less silent complicity in "good government" with the centre further-right Liberals in BC.

And I know some social democrats will chafe at this characterization of their party, but I think by now it is pretty much clear that their "opposition" role has been pretty damned tepid, if at all. The NDP has been tamed and made "acceptable" to capitalism, outside of inflamed and exaggerated rehetoric.

There is NO clearly "serious" left political grouping in this country, that is actually prepared to challenge capitalism and ALL the capitalist parties for power, and for the revolutionary transformation of the current class power arrangement of society, or to agitate for outright working class and community power over the ownership, management and direction of the economy. Though the need for such a "grouping" of the serious left is clearly needed... advocating for a preferably peaceful re-arrangement of power within the economy and society, and the dismissal/disbandment of the capitalist monopoly assumption.

It would be nice to think that this "serious left" could act effectively "outside" the party system of capitalism. The reality is likely to be, I suspect however, that there may for a time be proved a "need" for at least some kind of an "electoral presence" to back up there, what should be occurring at the same time on the streets and within the workplaces of the economy (challenging capitalist power there, creating a kind of "co-operative" worker and community power alternative.)

In any case, the issue of this need for a "serious" left and the form it should take is already being raised and greater discussed... even as the NDP/ social dem influence wanes and is co-opted and absorbed into current capitalism.

In any case, the key is, as it has always been, what a critical mass of the ordinary citizenry decide to do now. As it will be key to how the serious left develops, what it becomes in the short term, and what it becomes or does not after the revolutionary "re-arrangement" of society.

No happy!

You forget the liberal opposition forces made one big mistake. They let one of their own take the NDP to court and they took Clark to court. They lost on both counts. If there had been something "dirty" the courts would have ruled differently. I need not excuse anything. Certainly what the Campbell liberals have done is not excused by a mention of some political mistake by the NDP which in today's situation amounts to a drop in an ocean of corruption by the liberals..

Then you go on to a conspiracy theory about Bill Tieleman which is as far fetched as most of your theories about the NDP.

I must admit however that if an honest business friendly alternative appears to the BC Liberal corporate puppets and Bilderberg Campbell, it will be a pleasant change. Listening to Van der Zalm talk about the HST benefiting only the corporate sector makes him sound more like WAC who was business friendly but still pro BC. He would not be selling us out to the American investors. Then there might even be a place for the serious left and the political dialogue might go beyond the "socialist hoards are at the gates" and we would be talking about economic policy beyond the "trickle down" economics of Thatcher/Reagan/Bush.

Skywalker

"Dirty politics" unfortunately, is not a crime. The court did not rule on that, that was not their mandate, they ruled on whether criminal fraud had been committed.
The public rules on dirty politics and and they ruled 77-2 against. Maybe thats whats in store for the Libs. Maybe.
Speaking of "conspiracies" you should check out who was actually at that Bilderberg conference besides Gordo. I didn't realize so many academics were into world domination.
And in closing, as I have to move on I must chuckle - good naturedly - about your socialist hordes comment. Wasn't that WAC himself that said that? HE knew what was going down....

Cheers

The left in Canadian politics

"There is NO clearly "serious" left political grouping in this country, that is actually prepared to challenge capitalism"

I'd suggest the NDP are no longer even the social conscience of society as they were considered under the CCP.

People have become completely commodified under capitalism. A means for labour but mostly for consumption. America produces more now than ever but the robots do the labour. People have become virtually useless in any practical sense.

Unable to provide for themselves except through full dependency on the economic system - no skills, no land, no ideas -- life is now what they are told it is. The hologram will soon be turned off though, folks, and we will be in a social stew foreseen but not forsaken.

Dirty Politics happy?

The elections was never about dirty politics. It was about a media perception created around an effing deck and fast ferries. The public ruled on a corporate media created myth for heaven sakes. Why not a public ruling on the dirty politics of the HST or BC Rail or fudgit budgets.. Is lying to get elected "dirty politics"?

Also you missed the whole point of the "socialist hoard" comment. WAC was prone to hyperbole when he fought elections, he was still staunchly pro BC. He probably didn't even know what a socialist was. So if Van der Zalm ran for election, considering his past comments on HST, he comes closer to being a "put BC first" kinda guy than any other right-winger today. We could sure use one or two like that rather than this bunch of corrupt BC Liberal puppets.

Now are you suggesting that all the people at the Bilderberg conference were academics or are you making the suggestion because the free market economists have degrees from some university? Are you suggesting Bilderberg is just a fraternity of academics talking about higher education? I'm starting to have a few chuckles myself.

Happy is funny...

Glen Clark is executive vice president for the Pattison Group, a far left company if you ever did see one. He's also president of The News Group North America. Damned socialist. Not.

PS Wanna buy two ferries? They're sitting down at the Albion dock; the Liberals tried to sell em on Craigslist (are they being advised by Sarah Palin?) but one deal fell through and there they sit.

The slow ferries scandal.

Glen Clark was a lot of things but he didn't lie all of the time like Gordo does.

Happy?

How about LIbERal. Obviously he's been sent by scamble to try and derail the unhappyness towards the LIbERalS. Of course digging up minor indescretions by the NDP (comparable to our current goons in Victoria) and trying to paint them with the same brush is classic Scamble. Get real happy and get lost!

Happy

By your logic the fact that in 1944 Canadian soldiers shot surrendering 12th SS soldiers means that Canada was as bad as Nazi Germany.

You're using a line of argument that pops up on the internet all the time but except for being a distraction from the topic it usually doesn't go anywhere. Unless distraction is what you're going for.

As for Vander Zalm, let's see now, we can paraphrase Churchill about allying with the devil if it means defeating Campbell, or toss out the old line about my enemy's enemy and so on.

Your side allied with the likes of Kevin Falcon, brought him on board, got him elected, even made him a minister in your government, because he helped you defeat the NDP.

Until the day comes when Ms James announces Vander Zalm is going to be a minister under an NDP government he's nothing more than a private citizen acting on his own.

toquer

How much should the poor pay to support corporations in your opinion? Is a 12% HST enough or should it be much higher?

Rodney King

80% of the population said they supported the petition, according to polling. Most would sign the petition if it was put in front of them.

If your party thinks the petition is a bunch of hot air, clear that air by calling an election on the issue instead of running scared.

As I see it

One more time the the message of the article has been hijacked by the polarized politics of this province.

The Campbell supporters use the weapon that has served Campbell the best, character assassination.

The Campbell detractors have fallen into the trap by responsing to the character assassinations.

Meanwhile Rome continues to burn.

The objective has been to rid BC of the HST, the most regressive tax anyone could come up with. It has nothing to do with Glen Clark nor Bill Vander Zalm's past transgressions. It has nothing to do with Bingogate nor Fast Ferries.

It is about a grassroots rejection of an unfair taxation policy. Recall is nothing more than a means to an end, which is getting rid of the HST. If the government falls as collateral damage, so be it.

The only thing I find disappointing about this whole excercise is that so far no political party has stepped up and stated categorically that they would rescind the HST. From my perspective, this is very disconcerting.

It matters not which political party is at the helm. We will still be governed by the puppet masters behind the scenes. It is time to shun the political parties like the plague they are to a true democracy and embrace those that are independent. Only then will the electorate have a say in how they are governed.

I thought we were all on messsage crankypants.

Any discussion has to deal with issues as they arise and the diversions are no different than the one you just raise. It is always easiest to come up with "a pox on all your houses."

You are right in saying that it is high time the other political party seized the initiative and stated what it is going to do to swing the pendulum back on the tax shift that has taken place. The longer Carole James waits the easier it is for the liberals to dig themselves out of Campbell's "hole" or for another party to steal the show.

If the NDP doesn't come up with a platform in the next election that states clearly they will repeal the HST or in some clear way greatly modify its application so tthat consumers will get their edge back, then the NDP will suffer the consequences. It is really quite simple to all except to Carole.

Crankypants Nails It 1...

"The only thing I find disappointing about this whole exercises is that so far no political party has stepped up and stated categorically that they would rescind the HST. From my perspective, this is very disconcerting.
It matters not which political party is at the helm. We will still be governed by the puppet masters behind the scenes. It is time to shun the political parties like the plague they are to a true democracy and embrace those that are independent." wrote Crankypants.

With which I agree. There is really nothing within the "official" electoral system context now, that can be done to change outcomes significantly here. All the "parties" to the system are in on the game, to the service of their own common "business friendly" perception interests. And the significance of this fact needs to be faced up to by working class and "left-progressive" elements here.

But what I am most impressed with in Crankypants' analysis here is, he has given this as yet non-existent "serious left" a means by which it can step outside the normal "political parties of capitalism" fray here, which has become so discredited to the citizenry. And that is this notion of "independent candidates." Which I embrace, right off.

This new "serious left" formation for which I advocate, when and as it evolves to a place where it feels the prudence of engaging ALL the other parties to capitalism, in parallel, not separate from, actions of the broad citizenry as may occur and be encouraged even, on the streets and in the workplaces of the economy, should field and support "independent" candidates, (To the degree that full independence is ever possible in reality.) who are free to take and vote their own positions, "unwhipped" into "party line" as are all the other parties to capitalism. (Which actually, is not entirely unlike the current system works in the US, as opposed to the British "parliamentary" system.) These candidates need only submit to the discipline of their own electorate and the similarly "independent" members of my proposed "left grouping", who are likewise free to decide to support or not support candidates. All votes, nonetheless, are formally free votes for the left. There is no rigid "democratic centralism" traditionally used by all parties of the left and right. Though there is ever pressure and persuasion, which works separately in any situation in life.

(Which actually even exists now, to a lesser degree, as an option for those opposed in principle to their party's positions.Which electorates need to begin insisting be exercised more.)

The primary need right now however, is for
steps to be taken in the creation and evolution of this new "serious left".

Continued next post...

Crankypants Nails It 2...

Continued from previous post...

In this context, the next election per se is of relatively insignificant importance. (All the parties to the process are of a similar mind and "business friendly" policy set in any case. The "serious left", while it may even successfully unseat Campbell I suppose, as a stretch, is still not positioned to much change the current policy direction of "the system", regardless of who gets in of the similar mindset alternatives.)

We need to be talking amongst ourselves and collectively, settling old differences, some of which go back to the time of the 1917 Russian Revolution, believe it or not. But especially we need to be seeking commonalities and a quite different development direction in order to begin to have any significant impact on the dominant economic and political policy course that current capitalism is on, and how to move beyond the capitalist system entirely, in the context of THIS country.

We need to worry less about the minutia of party politics currently in Victoria or Ottawa, such navel gazing as is much in evidence here. Let them stew in their own juices and their own coming consequences. The real primary need in the country is for this "serious left" to get its shit together and get organized. Until then, we are really just twisting in the wind, and victims of the caprice and avarice of other agendas.

The Right shape shifts all the time. It is time for a dramatic "Left" shift of shape AND content here now as well.

Well my friends

Thank you all for your polite responses.

Skywalker asks if lying to get elected is dirty politics.
Absolutely. Happens constantly. Should be a crime.
Next, the Bilderberg attendees are splashed all over the net Skywalker. Have a look if you really need to know. Who ever suspected Peter Mansbridge was into multinational world domination. Is the CBC going to be the only designated news - propagada outlet in the New World Order?

offended infers Glen is some kind of corporate hack. Does this mean he was a neocon "plant" when he was leader of the NDP? Sure fooled me.
I'm not sure what trying to sell obsolete ferries has to do with the subject or how thats a scandal. I'm pretty sure they won't be renovated into mega yachts for the ultra rich elites like the Cats are being right now in a middle east shipyard though.

Camero409 is the smart one, sees right through me. PAB. And I thought I could fool you guys. Gordo's going to be furious at me for being so sloppy. I'm going to put in a few hours after this shift babysitting his love child to make it up. No long term worries, he always forgets everything after five or six martinis.

Frank, I'm not trying to distract. I'm sure the management would call me on that if that was their perception. Just saying it the way I see it. I absolutely agree it will go nowhere though. Everyones dug in. The Zalm story is too early to call yet. It will be most interesting to see how that one plays out. Only in BC eh...cheers Frank.

Carol James

Its best for her to use her 10 seconds of air time now and then to put forward a positive face who's happy to work with everyone, no matter what their ideology.

Not as an attack dog type that looks negative and angry.

The job of shouting to people, telling them what Campbell has done should not be her job.

As for being "inspiring", come on, I'm sure I'm not alone in not needing a father figure to lead me. In my opinion most people just want to know the person in charge is competent, fair and trustworthy. James already gets high marks on the latter two points.

Hey happy, it was a no brainer.

You're so obvious with your crazed comparisons.

Happy then Frank

The term "world domination" was yours and you peddle it when the the real Bilderberg interest is a promotion of free market capitalism across the globe. That means "globalization" if you like. Not being a fan of Mansbridge I don't know his leanings, nor would I care. Any secretive organization that has politicians or has been politician participating and will not disclose the nature of the discussions does not deserve to be treated with anything more than suspicion. You maybe gullible some people are not.

Frank, When ordinary folk are struggling against a despotic regime it does no good to have someone talk about "working with everyone". What people want is to know they are an alternative. The alternative must be clear.

In the coffee shops there is general agreement that she is not doing her job; Bill Van der Zalm is.

Skywalker

Then those people are either lying in the coffee shops or lying to the pollsters.

If polls are to be believed it looks like she might be the most popular NDP leader in BC in history. If coffee shop talk is to be believed then Vander Zalm and Delaney will win the next election leading a new party. We'll see.

It could be that the coffee shop talk is simply right-wingers copying what the Cons in Ontario used to say about McGuinty, that he's just not up to the job. Back-handed compliments so to speak as a way to discredit someone who is waaay ahead of their preferred party.

Also, its not only right-wingers that don't like James, there's also a lot of environmentalists who hate her even more. Well, that's tough, we don't need their votes and frankly, I don't want them, they have their own party to vote for.

For Skywalkers eyes ONLY

Actually I picked up the world domination theme here from our respected senior poster, you know the one who uses the term "fraud" every other sentence. But globalization does seem to fit the bill much better. While perusing the net to educate myself on this Bilderberg deal I was amused to note that there are as many wacko right wing groups convinced that the Bilderbergs are trying to impose a "socialist One World Government" as there are wacko left wing groups who see a "capitalist New World Order" being prepared. I think thats quite funny. But I'll go with gullible if you'd rather.
(whoa, gotta get back to work. Gordo just passed through the Bunker and man is he hung over today. He told me to find out everything I can about this Camero409 person. He's on to "us")

Frank

They will probably all vote for Carole or they will vote for anybody but liberals but it is only because they hate Campbell. To me that is a very shaky platform to build on. Having gone through the extra 8 years of Campbell, thanks to incompetent campaigning, I'm not very convinced. I guess I will hold my nose and vote again.

Skywalker

Well, I don't blame the defeats of 2005 and 2009 on James. Just as I don't credit the Liberal victory in 2001 to Campbell being a great and inspiring leader.

The media and therefore the Tim Horton's crowd turned on the NDP so Campbell won in spite of the fact he looks and sounds like a guy that's watched way too much internet porn.

In 2005 and 2009 the media supported Campbell so he won because like it or not opinion leaders in the media are what sways the crowd at the coffee shop.

Now the media is finally attacking Campbell and so his support has nosedived.

James could have had the charisma of Obama and been as left-wing as Trotsky and still would have lost in 2005 and 2009.

All my opinion of course.

Campbell's Ideal

Bill Bennett SC – spent over $1 billion on the Northeast Coal project, to create jobs. Critics noted that by creating only 1,000 jobs, each job cost taxpayers $1 million. The coal project ultimately failed.
--The Doman Scandal – – 1996 – insider trading. Bennett ordered to pay a $1M fine.

Gordon Campbell is on record as having said he admires and patterns his government after Bill Bennett.

I hope Campbell is out of office before he pays any fines, or the taxpayers will end up paying it for him!

Recall

Recall should be the same as 'fired for cause' and result in forfeiture of pension.

That would put the fear of the electorate in them as WE are their bosses, rather than fear of the Premier and HIS bosses.

For the folks that are too young (or forgetful), to remember the days of the NDP, and the Big business governments that preceded them, I would suggest you take a look here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_premiers_of_British_Columbia

and read about the premiers and their governments from about 1972 on. Right-wing, pro BIG business governments and their leaders have hurt this province more over the years than the NDP ever did, or probably ever could. At least the NDP boondoggles kept the money in BC – not in the hands of foreign multi-national shareholders. The NDP’s so-called ‘scandals’ pale in comparison to those of Bennett, Vander Zalm, and worst of all – Campbell. Are the NDP perfect? Absolutely not. Do we have another choice? Not yet. Let’s hope we can get back to a “Middle of the Road” real soon!!

Recall success story

I would suggest that recall CAN and actually HAS worked. I would also like to suggest how to improve upon it - make it even scarier for an elected official.

In 1998, MLA Paul Reitsma resigned his seat when it appeared that a recall petition would be successful and he could be the first person ever recalled under the legislation.

He was a Liberal MLA

I would like to see some changes in the recall law so that, once initiated, the MLA CANNOT resign. Make them stay where they are and get DISCRACED out of office!

If the recall is successful, the recalled MLA and/or his party will cover the cost of the bye-election.

A recalled/disgraced MLA will forfeit his/her pension.

Rich people and Rodney King.

If you can afford the extra couple of bucks for your haircut, for your vitamins, your taxi to and from the doctor, for - etc., etc., - good for you! So can I.

The problem is - there are about one million people in BC that CANNOT afford it, and that is the group that I feel that I speak for, and that a lot of other people are concerned about. How many of the poor - really really, poor have access to a computer to tell you what kind of Hell their lives really are?

You are happy with your life, good for you, but DO NOT make light of the tough times that a lot of people are facing - unless of course, you are a Liberal MLA. If that's the case, then you probably giggle every time you DO think of them.

Warp

Your last posting bears repeating to any and all that will listen. Too many people have the "I'm alright Jack-What's your problem" syndrome.

Sadly, unless someone is living the life so many of the less fortunate are, it is impossible to relate to their plight. I think the fact that the grocery chain that has been increasing its customer base the quickest, THE LOCAL FOOD BANKS, says it all.

Happy

I was amused to note that there are as many wacko right wing groups convinced that the Bilderbergs are trying to impose a "socialist One World Government" as there are wacko left wing groups who see a "capitalist New World Order" being prepared."

Verbal contortionism.

recall

The fall will demonstrate whether people can enforce
democracy on our government. It is not about whether or not HST in good for us or not it is about what the will of the people is. If the Liberals were to claw back the tax breaks they gave their friends when they first came to power, it would almost equal the short fall. Recall can legally begin in November, and it will be the biggest Christmas give ever for the people
of BC. We will get rid of a dictatorship