Canadians futures tied up in tar-sands

It wasn't that long ago everyone was looking for new ways to get around as car makers where looking towards the future or so it was said as the environment was very important to folks. Fuel consumption continues to climb and Government makes investments in tar-sands for Canadian's futures but has all but eliminated the environment as gets in the way of the tar-sands future.
Canada will have a major spill to contend with it is a given only problem I'm also certain Canada will not have the capability to clean up the mess.

AMEC

AMEC is doing the environmental assessment and is involved in planning for Raven Coal. AMEC has a website that brags about a seven year history with tar sands in Alberta and the Athabasca tar sands. AMEC was responsible for almost all aspects of the BP rig in the Gulf of Mexico and has extensive interests in China and in Nigeria with Shell, Exxon, BP, etc. I suggest an indepth report on AMEC given the threat Raven Coal presents to this Island.

AMEC and BP

I need to clarify that AMEC was involved with the Gulf of Mexico BP ventures from 2000 to 2008.

When the "health" (economic) of a nation.....

.....depends solely on extracting and selling a single product, then all else is a very distant second.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/edmonton/story/2008/05/22/edm-fort-chip.html

Here comes the train

Just like developers, get outa the way or get run over. Nothing has changed. We need a change of government and direction here in Canada. I only hope someone or party steps up to the plate. To hell with Alberta anger. Let's regulate the industry properly.

Nikiforuk Top Notch Journalist

For those who haven't yet read Nikiforuk's explosive book, Tar Sands, you're in for a wild ride. After reading this account, from a home-grown Calgary journalist, you will begin to understand the impacts, and dangers, of the Alberta tar sands project. Frightening and monstrous, it has become the Thing that Ate New York.

It is very, very fortunate to have Mr. Nikiforuk publishing with the Tyee. His book, recently updated, can be found below. Read it if you dare.

http://www.dmpibooks.com/book/tar-sands-revised-and-updated

AWARDS
Winner of the Living Now Book Awards - Gold Medal in Green Living
Winner of an Award of Special Merit - Grantham Prizes
Winner of the Rachel Carson Environment Book Award
Winner of the W.O. Mitchell City of Calgary Book Award
Nominated for the 2009 Grantham Prize for Excellence in Reporting on the Environment
Nominated for a BC Booksellers' Choice Award
Nominated for a ForeWord Magazine Book of the Year Award

In the book "Petro-dollar

In the book "Petro-dollar Warfare" by William Clark, he points out that the whole tar-sands project is an economic ponsi-boondogle. The water that is used to seperate the sand from the tar is given, yes thats right for free, to syn-crude by the Alberta Government. I don't know what the ratio is today but about 15 years ago it took 23 barrels of water to produce 1 barrel of oil. The oil industry has a formula on how much it costs to develope an oil field; energy output versus energy input. Normal ratio back in the oil industry hayday it was 100 to 1. The tarsands ratio is 1.5 to 1, and to think they don't have to pay for the water or so far, the cleanup. Wanna guess who'll be paying for the cleanup?

thanks for this -- will

thanks for this -- will definitely be following subsequent articles by Mr. Nikiforuk

making cars happy

It would seem the collective goal of human society is to make the cars happy. Most don't care if they rip a hole the size of the moon in the canadian north, so long as they can drive everywhere, and jump on an airplane for their two weeks holiday.

more fiddling while Rome burns

For those that want more info on problems at the tar pits they may want to check out Oil Sands Fever, published by the Pembina Institute in 2005. It has an informative section (4.2 “Troubled waters”) on water use and abuse.

http://pubs.pembina.org/reports/OilSands72.pdf

In addition, see 2007 Tyee article at:

http://thetyee.ca/Views/2007/09/21/TarSands2/

“What’s happening to the boreal forest within the 3,450-squarekilometre oil sands Surface Mineable Area of northeast Alberta, can legitimately be described as an ecological holocaust.”
Dr. Richard Thomas

Excellent overview

Outstanding overview of the issue. Reading leaves me feeling punched in the stomach. Better than the nauseous despair every time I watch tar sands funder RBC's Project Blue Water ads:

http://bluewater.rbc.com/watchFilms.php

I like my water clear, thank you.

The federal and Alberta governments are guilty of negligence. They believe they have legislated away responsibility for environmental protection and have handed it to corporations which, as we know, are profit-driven first. These aren't governments. They are bodies of agents who work for oil companies and banks. And the Canadian public is complicit in the crime because we pay them to do it. It's up to us, really. Those of us who take the time to become enlightened by reading articles like this. Here in Vancouver, creative anti-supertanker/pipeline protests are being planned by local activists for autumn. Shaming government into compliance is all we're left with. Find out more at http://dogwoodinitiative.org/

We can also work with members of the international community who have criticized Canada for its tar sands investment to bring the truth to light. We need TV commercials by NGOs to combat RBC's greenwash and expose the facts outlined in this article to a nationwide audience.

When we were kids, we read comic books and watched movies about superheroes whose mission was to save the planet. Here's your chance to be one. Get involved, folks. :)

Great article Mr. Nikiforuk. The Tyee clearly made an excellent choice selecting you as its writer in residence.

Is there a reason you need to lie? And then to delete posts?

I posted this earlier:

"But nobody appears to be standing on guard. Even though Environment Canada has a clear mandate to protect fish from tar sands pollutants, the agency has completed but one fish study on an industrial development with a geographical footprint larger than 40 Calgaries or 17 Berlins."

This is an outright lie. The UNDEVELOPED, untouched, same-as-it-always-was land that has oil sands under the ground is that size. The developed land, the land causing polution, the land that is an open pit is about the size of Edmonton.

Now why would you find it necessary to lie? And why would you find it necessary to delete a post that points it out?

@Peter1234

Hi Peter1234,

I don't think we did delete your posts. I can see two copies above this one. Is it possible you're looking at the "Best Comments" tab rather than the "All comments" tab?

Geoff

The Evidence

"The evidence, of course, all points to one embarrassing conclusion: Ottawa has managed its mandate in the tar sands as irresponsibly as the U.S. Mineral Management Services oversaw the safety of deep sea drilling in the Gulf."

What should now be entirely clear to everyone, short of the system's apologists spinning their spin out there of course, is that we have already moved well beyond any pretence of "responsible capitalism" and the previous Social Democratic State, and are now entering well into the fully, unabashedly "Corporatist State" model of capitalism. Which essential characteristic is the rapidly diminishing presence of any serious semblance of democracy, and the full marriage of interests and collaboration between the "global corporate business sector" and The State.

"Although industry folks claim, with the earnestness of BP executives, that city-scaled water withdrawals from the Athabasca River for bitumen processing are safely managed, committee witnesses gave a different story."

The tripartite party system of parliament, in which all are increasingly of one collaborative view, or are effectively agreed to keep differences "in house", into which the so-called Green Party wants entry to be one of the players as well, has long been a "closed circle" group. It has become one of the "unintended", at least by the masses, consequences of minority party governance. It has acted to tend to draw all the parties together, always essentially agreed between them on the sacrosanctity of capitalism in any case. This latter reality, as we have moved away from the old Social Democratic State with its regulatory systems and into the "Neoconservative State" with its emaciated regulatory mantra, making the new, more collaborative parliamentary order easier. As in, they have always been fundamentally agreed in any case, ie on the sacrosanctity of capitalism as primary.

All of which serves to demonstrate the futility of any new "reformist" options, especially coming from the thinning and ideologically emasculated ranks of "social democracy" and even many so-called "greens". We are already in a new world order rapidly consolidating its grip and squeezing out the "democratic options" to influencing and changing the socio-economic order. The muddy middle ground is being squeezed out altogether, as a serious choice.

It is a choice between living with this tar sands kinds of reality, and wailing futilely at the margins, like is around the Gulf oil spill and global warming and its consequences, or move over into a more revolutionary view that seeks more pro-actively to transform "qualitatively" the underpinning socio-economic and democratic structural, ideological, and day to day working drivers order of society.

This bullshit has gone on long enough already. It only gets worse from here.

Coyoteman: What he said

Coyoteman.

What he said.

Strap on your seatbelts, folks.

The G20 just gave birth to Canada's latest version of the Police State. It arrived, squalling and lusty and mad, and it's being well fed.

Soon, it will be giving orders to our flabby, timid elites like Harper and Campbell who will be happy to follow orders. Makes their job really easy. It's happened again and again in history, but these lessons have all been forgotten.

For a tiny refresher course on western police states, I recommend Hans Fallada's Every Man Dies Alone, written by the German author in 1946. Take a good, long look at how things can be.

http://www.amazon.ca/Every-Dies-Alone-Hans-Fallada/dp/1933633638

And here it is...

"..seeks more pro-actively to transform "qualitatively" the underpinning socio-economic and democratic structural, ideological, and day to day working drivers order of society."

Brrrrh....Knowingly inviting your usual take on it, that there isn't very much I 'get' altogether - I don't get this!

I am thinking on these postings we get at my place of work before 'planned power interruptions'. 'What will happen?' 'why is this happening?' And then the one I really like: 'What do I need to do?'

Coyote, you aren't telling folks what they need to do. I have time and again pointed out that re-using your newspapers and yogurt buckets for all manner of things and darning your own socks are more subversive acts in today's scenario than marching down the streets in phalanx holding up signs that try to sock it to the fascists. What other ideas do you have for the home-grown revolutionary, or, as we used to say when I was young, 'radical'? If you say join this and that party, I'm gonna run screaming out of the room, and I wager I won't be running alone. This in my view will only get better if we play the 'I'm Spartacus' game. Each and every one will have to take untraceable precipitate action. We need a new curriculum is what we do. Any ideas?

Who Killed the Report?

Andrew, great article. Just one question. You say "the committee" shredded its own report. However,there are 4 parties represented on every committee and the Harperites are usually a minority. Was there a majority vote of the committee members in favour of this action or was it taken solely on the minority government's orders? If there was a vote (I guess this makes it two questions.)it would be important to know who voted in favour or who against.

Society tied to oil addiction...

with a noose!

I'm Rethinking Alberta...

Good for Corp Ethics org. But where should I move to? Seems bad everywhere I look. I've lived in Alberta all my adult life. Unfortunately, most Albertans' heads are stuck in the sand and they're in huge denial. Very sad situation, indeed.

"Water, is taught by thirst"

A great piece of investigative journalism - of real substance.

Like oil and water.......

All I could think when I read this was how easily we overlook the glaring fact that we are "the water planet" ....that all life forms on earth depend on it...that our bodies are composed of two-thirds water....that it makes up sixty to seventy percent of all living matter....that without a drink of it, we would die in a week.

I actually think this is a philosophical....and perhaps psychological crisis, some would even say a spiritual crisis ( I know, I know, I tread on dangerous ground here)... more than anything else. One that has preceded and created the devastating ecological crisis that now holds the world in its grip.

Our critical thinking.....and feeling capacity as human beings has become dangerously perverse.

We are water. H20 in all its forms.

And yet we reject water, and suicidally inject bitumen.

That has to be mad.

Andrew Nikiforuk says it best on another Tyee thread:

"We are behaving now like gods high on hydro carbons. We need to behave again like human beings."

As human beings, unfortunately, we have a history of learning things the hard way:

'Water, is taught by thirst.
Land -- by the Oceans passed.
Transport -- by throe --
Peace -- by its battles told --
Love, by Memorial Mold --
Birds, by the Snow."

- Emily Dickinson

On telling folks what to do...

"Coyote, you aren't telling folks what they need to do." Dorothy.

Well, you got one thing at least, Dorothy, :-)

And you are entirely right. I kinda leave it to folks intelligence and imagination... to micro-manage their own lives. I ain't that smart myself, and I can't be everywhere.

Which makes the point, that you do actually have to have intelligence and imagination, or like your own problem, you just won't get it. You'll be left in the light of a dim bulb, waiting for Jesus to take you by the hand and lead you through life to death.

I always presume I'm talking to adults who can actually "figger".

Lynn....

"We are water. H20 in all its forms.

And yet we reject water, and suicidally inject bitumen.

That has to be mad." wrote Lynn.

Loved this piece, Lynn. There's nothing quite like a unique, and dare I say in the best, most honourtable context, revolutionary woman's viewpoint.

CBC.ca did not cover the Standing Committee's actions

"Just two weeks ago the Standing Committee on Environment and Sustainable Development abruptly cancelled a big report on the tar sands and the project's extreme water impacts. The parliamentarians even destroyed draft copies of their final report."

CBC.ca did not bother covering the above-mentionned Standing Committee's actions.

One of the problems we have is that our own national broadcaster may be, to some extent, involved in the caving in
to political pressure.

Welcome Mr. Nikiforuk

About a third of the way down I stopped reading for a minute, picked up a pencil and checked around a bit.

After some simple figuring the full effect of this article started to hit.

Wiki tells me that the Deepwater Horizon spill was estimated to be ‘pouring’ between 35,000 and 60,000 barrels of Crude per day into the gulf.

This story tells me of 67 litres per second ‘seeping’ from the Tar Island dike. Now taking a US Gallon at 3.785 litres and a barrel at 42 US Gallons it turns out there are about 36,400 barrels of crap ‘seeping’ out of the dike – about the same as the Deepwater Horizon well put out on a very light day.

Now I know crude oil and the soup out of tailing ponds are apples and oranges but I’m going to stick my very non-scientific head out here and suggest that the tailings might be as bad or worse that the tailings, even if the effects aren’t immediately and dramatically evident.

But that is nothing compared to the relative impact of these two realities.

The effects of the Gulf spill are there to be seen on an almost immediate level, and every network has been providing continuous reportage on the necessity of solving this problem. Aside from being less dramatically visible the seepage is absolutely nowhere on the horizon of issues requiring immediate and dramatic attentions. I mean no lack of respect to Tyee but the likelihood of the facts in this story getting beyond this relatively small corner of the internet is depressingly remote.

I’ve spent most of my adult life patronizing those who see a world rife with conspiracies – sometimes it appears that they will have the last word, er gasp.

Jack the Bear

I am also pleased Andrew Nikiforuk has joined the Tyee as columnist.

Although "the likelihood of the facts in this story getting beyond this relatively small corner of the internet is depressingly remote", at least you had an opportunity to read articles like this and comment on them.

No doubt the birth of Tyee was accelerated by the lack of coverage of important current topics by main stream media. Besides the excessive right-leaning bias of the ownership of MSM, the magnitude of advertising by auto dealers and developers in Vancouver newspapers makes it clear who has the most influence in their publications.

I try to keep my friends informed about current topics published by Tyee. Maybe as Tyee readership grows, main stream media will begin to provide more balance in their reporting and editorials.

Jesus?

"..You'll be left in the light of a dim bulb, waiting for Jesus to take you by the hand.."

Nah, that man does not belong in the same neck of the woods where I came from. He won't be a good guide for a Norsewoman. I look for Gods with a bit more meat on them, and some you can have a more crackling dialogue with. But I get lost in the details...

I'm wondering here, if we are all going on the way we are now, just each doing his own thing out of his own imagination, isn't that simply preserving the status quo? The state of affairs where nothing is really moving? Aren't we going to work on some unidirection, consensus or whatever, or are we still just throwing shoes and, er other things at people who make us angry? It seems to me that none of this is terribly progressive. Do I really have to do everything, including the creative stuff, because you can't be bothered? I can fire people up with the best of them, but I was looking for some cooperation from elements like yourself, who claim to want to see change.

To deny conspiracies, you deny the truth....

I am amazed that any regular reader of TYEE (in this case Jack the Bear) or any of the alternative papers or hard copy magazines has not been able to see that the world abounds with conspiracies. When any two or more people join together to deprive others of their freedom, of their money, of their life, of their beliefs, you have a conspiracy. The “Carlyle Group” (see the “Iron Triangle”); the Bilderburg Group (the book by the same name); 9/11 (many books--”9/11 and the American Empire.” “Towers of Deception,” etc.) all outline the conspiratorial attempts by corporations, governments and grasping individuals in their attempt to enrich themselves on the backs of the poor and the deceived.

I have read Andrew Nikiforuk’s book and believe that if even one-third of the material is unexaggerated fact, we are in for a future of grief. I have relatives that work for Shell at managerial levels at their offices in Calgary. They deny any wrong doing at the tar sands. They deny any possibility of world oil depletion. They now pride themselves, after the BP disaster, that the oil sands are relatively “clean” in comparison. As another blogger suggested, Albertans are burying their heads in the sand--in this case the tar sands.

Okanagan Orchardist

Yes, it seems the anti-conspiracy element’s version of the truth is always worth scrutiny.

In the case of 9/11 they claim it is absolutely unthinkable and somewhat frightening that people in positions of power and trust, our leaders in government, would have such a callus, self-serving, non-feeling disregard for the lives of its own citizens, that they would conspire to allow the slaughter of innocents and events like 9/11 to take place.

This is an interesting argument in that it shows just how far a society … in this case the US … will allow narrow, ethnocentric realities (reality as it is constructed within the confines of its own socio-econ-political structure) to interfere with a reasoned view of realities outside its own presence.

The anti-conspiracy faction claims that the reason for attacking Iraq is to eliminate a brutal and murderous dictator and save the world from the evils of terrorism. The public is told the dictator of Iraq was responsible for the slaughter of many thousands of kinsmen (Iraqis citizens). So the question for the anti-conspiracy faction is: If you believe that people in positions of power and trust in Iraq are capable of killing off their citizenry in order to fulfill self-serving goals, why is it unthinkable and inconceivable to believe that the same self-serving disregard is happening in other states? Does this mean the only acceptable view of reality and humanity. - the one espoused by the anti-conspiracy factions - is their view and all others are evil?

Waving Magic Wands...

" If you believe that people in positions of power and trust in Iraq are capable of killing off their citizenry in order to fulfill self-serving goals, why is it unthinkable and inconceivable to believe that the same self-serving disregard is happening in other states? " KWD.

We are on the side of the angels whilst "they" are on the side of the devil? :-) Good one, KWD. I've always said that the US has more in common with Islamic fundamentalism that they, or we, are generally prepared to see or admit to.

But back to Dorothy. If you really are waiting for me to tell you what to do, which I very much doubt, it seems to me that the primary task that needs to be going on now, which our presence here is a part of the process of, is folks of a more or less like mind about society, the state of the world and the future need to be seeking each other out and beginning the process of organizing. The main obstacle in the way of the emergence of what I'll call "a more serious left", and its exerting an influence on the national discourse and events is, as the consequence of a complex recent history from the end of WWII, this "serious left" has been decimated, broken up and isolated. There is no mystery here. Much of it is old, like myself, and has even died off. (Which in a way is an opportunity to start afresh.)

So, first there needs to be a seeking of like minds out, and connecting with each other physically, not just online. (Though, while this pressure "to act" is evolving, many folks, I sense, are still worried where this will lead to. And rightly so. There is good reason for some concern. So, I think, there is likely going to have to be some further deterioration of the economic and political climate yet, before folks are finally driven to see that there is no alternative. And that's just my own "relatively isolated" read of the tea leaves.)

But when and as this does begin to happen, this seeking of each other out, the next big task is to begin organizing, to create connections and build structure, how ever loose or fluid. For it is only this step that finally begins to create an alternate "power" that "can" effect change. Without "democratic" organization, in my view, there are only chickens running around with their heads cut off, and no real building of instruments of power. (And I use the plural consciously.) And without power, based upon the mass of the citizenry organized and put into motion around the issues which concern and effect them, able by their mass to cut through the bullshit of current circumstances, there will be no change ever. Save only "their" kind, as will make our lives harder.

On the other hand, if you are waiting for me, or anybody else, some "saviour", to wave a magic wand to make it all suddenly appear, I'm afraid you are destined to forever be disappointed. :-)

Evil is in the eye of the beholder

“Does this mean the only acceptable view of reality and humanity. - the one espoused by the anti-conspiracy factions - is their view and all others are evil?”

Oh, sure, but this is just what they dream up. You can avail yourself of other sources of information, such as the writing of brave and stubborn people like Andrew Nikiforuk, and thus get to know, the truth, the whole and nothing but.

The question is: What sickness of the mind gets into these people who lie and twist? Most would say ‘simple greed’, but there is nothing simple about it. People of sound mind would want, by their own effort, to secure their daily existence, and also secure their longer-term existence and maybe a little to leave their children, for instance by investing in some turf. They would then want a bit leftover for a rainy day and to share with friends. That’s it. You don’t need more, for you can indeed not take it with you, and in the words of Odin the wise one, he who thinks he hoards stuff to share with friends may often see it go to foes (he makes himself a target for robbery by hoarding too much). The native people here on the coast had the potlatch for major sharing and equalization, when some people had hoarded for a while. As I understand it, that was the real reason for hoarding ever, that you could throw an almighty feast and spread it around again. Made life less boring, just like drivers on a European autostrada taking turns passing each other, so they will not fall asleep.

The super-rich, and those who try to become are quite in a different mindset. Seeing their frantic moves and bloodymindedness in trying to pile the billions, hacking each other to bits in court etc., you are looking at the wild hunt. Putting yourself in its path, you may get your boot filled with gold, or you may come home without a soul. It is obvious what the prize is: At the G8 lineup of contributors to poor countries, the nations and Bill Gates stood side by side. Fancy that! Would make the blood roll faster in any power-freak by nature. That the hoard is actually in the nature of taxation without representation is an issue for another day.

...more

and here it is...

Now it looks as if women world wide are moving in the direction of taking more control of their reproductive powers. We in the West have already taken care of that. Many of the developing countries have not yet, but are certainly trying. And ‘they’ aren’t liking it none. People should be a cheap commodity, an endless supply of willing drones who will do anything to survive, fearing the competition. God says so. We are not supposed to regulate our numbers. Anyone who even suggests that abortion may be a good idea, when the alternative is six children you cannot feed, and a dad who ‘abandoned the family’ out sheer desperation is a saboteur. Were you actually thinking this had anything to do with religion? Uh-uh. Religion is the vehicle here, not the driver. Almost 4,000 years of paternalistic success is endangered.
So yes, we are indeed ‘in for a future of grief’. Better get used to it as the new reality and think how we can preserve our humanity. I would suggest ‘Lucifers hammer’ as a starting point of debating that:

http://www.amazon.com/Lucifers-Hammer-Larry-Niven/dp/0449208133

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer%27s_Hammer

Shut Down the Tar Sands? And Then What?

It's a given that we will need oil until alternative technologies for transportation become viable and mass produced.

But lets shut down the tar sands anyway, like the more extreme deep ecologists are demanding. Then we can get our oil from that pillar of human rights, Saudi Arabia, or from Nigeris, where the benefits of oil money flow right past the people and into the bank accounts of corrupt politicians.

Just another example of the shallow thinkers who are good at holding a protest sign but nothing else.

Shoot from the hip to the appropriate target

As a morally conscious Albertan, I hope that readers do not miss the statement: Schindler also told the committee that once upon a time the federal government did good monitoring on the river but then turned it over to Alberta which "turned a lot of it over to industry itself. As a result we have a database that's not available to independent scientists to use."

Partisan politics in Alberta has trumped visionary public-centred gov't stewardship of public assets and resources.

For me, Dr. Schindler's comment takes us directly to the target where we can make a difference. Target federal/provincial relationships and an essential obligation to centralized scientific public administration in issues of such significance to humanity to say nothing of our declining image in the world as compassionate and fair.

Don't let Linda Duncan or anyone else use this at the federal level for their own personal and partisan advantage.

Focus on the need to re-examine federal-provincial responsibilities for our resources and pertinent intellectual property. Focus on the cultural competence of our country and its role in our universe.

Remember the ill-informed selfishness of our Alberta Firewall Group of Stephen Harper and his cronies (many of whom are still highly influential AB and, I suspect, in the Office of the PM).

Focus on the Alberta Government abdication of our moral obligation to regulate the practice of the for-profit industry in services that were previously public and remain vital to our lives. Focus on public-centred full government cooperation with science, industry and professionals in optimal regulatory boundaries and/or intervention.

With the critical nature of the tarsands management and its complex importance to the lives of Albertans and mankind, we are offered an objective opportunity to 'out' the serious democratic deficit in Alberta and the growing democratic deficit in our federal government.

Pragmatic federal involvement and visionary scientific influence have been trumped by perception of pressure from the investors.

As an investor and an Albertan, I want serious review and a return to a moral approach to tarsands administration and management.

Schindler says "once upon a time the federal government did good monitoring..." What does it take to "live happily (safely) ever after"? THAT will be our appropriate target.

There's nothing shallow

about those thinkers.They want you to bike. They want you to bike everywhere, including BC's interior at -40deg Celsius. If you cannot hack it without you comfy heated SUV, you don't fit the new reality, sorry, pal, that's just Darwin's beautiful evolution at work. (hee,hee).

What I'm trying to say is, at the bottom of 'deep' ecologism, there is a good deal of misanthropy. Ive heard it speak and stared it in the eye. Beautiful Gaia, the worshiped Goddess, and people, the vermin crawling all over her, defiling her.

I, too, value and revere Spaceship Earth, but I think the hatred is an impediment to real progress in taking better care of it. It is so much easier to sling mud and take down than it is to put your nose to the grindstone and do some real work, as in building something.

potlatch

I wouldn’t be in any hurry to equate the Potlatch with sharing.

The Potlatch had more to do with status than redistribution of wealth. It was a practice of gaining status by giving away or destroying more than one’s rival.

“Before proceeding any further it will necessary to describe the method of acquiring rank. This is done by means of the potlatch, or the distribution of property. This custom has been described often, but it has been thoroughly misunderstood by most observers. The underlying principles is that of the interest-bearing investment of property.”

“Possession of wealth is considered honorable, and it is the endeavour of each Indian to acquire a fortune. But it is not as much the possession of wealth as the ability to give great festivals which makes wealth a desirable object to the Indian.”

Franz Boas

Shooting from the hip

Radical... for someone from the independent "petro-state" of Alberta, justjane. :-)

Though its of greater likelihood that Alberta is now in a place politically, not unlike Saudi Arabia (or Israel in a slightly different context), where about the only influence it will listen to is Amerika. Which it alone respects. It is scarcely, save "formally", as a lip service gesture, even a part of Canada anymore. A development in which Harper, only just more than Liberal others before him, has been the main enabler.

Oil, especially oil in which the US Empire has an interest claim, really does trump everything else right now, even those national sovereignties like Canada's, that get in its way.

Alberta is riding high still, relatively, and given the continuance of the current socio-economic and political realities, will until such time as the oil finally runs out... which it eventually will, of course. When it will return to being just another backwater agricultural province, relative to its current loftiness. Especially at the rate of the US appetite for the black goo stuff. (This country's possible future need for the stuff is inconsequential in the age of the North Amerikan Union, to the corporate investor interest no less.

All barring a major collapse of the economic system and an international calling in of the US foreign indebtedness... the other elephant in the room.

Okanagan Orchardist wrote:

Quote: "I have relatives that work for Shell at managerial levels at their offices in Calgary. They deny any wrong doing at the tar sands. They deny any possibility of world oil depletion. They now pride themselves, after the BP disaster, that the oil sands are relatively “clean” in comparison."

That reminds me of that well-known story about Malcolm Lowry - that while he was at work writing "Under the Volcano" at his shack on the beach near Dollarton, in an area now known as Cates Park, he would gaze across Burrard Inlet at night towards the Shell Oil refinery on the other side .... but the letter S had burnt out from the gargantuan flashing Shell sign..... and all Lowry could see signaling back at him in the darkness were the demonic red letters: "hell" ... "hell" ... "hell".

PS. Thanks, coyoteman.....I'm off to make some very "unrevolutionary" pastry that will (hopefully) soon become blackberry pie. ;-)

Ooh, so Virtuous...

Hello! Did I ever say the potlatch was thrown out of Christian charity? Nevertheless, the result was redistribution of goods and putting people on a more equal footing in the material sense, at least right then and there. often during the lean season, where a series of good meals for all would be a really fabulous idea.

So what's wrong with the investment idea? At least these people understood that one must give before one can receive. Their way was sustainable, while our isn't. Our way is to have people desperate and lonely and fundamentally insecure, so they won't ask for much in return for their labors.

Apart from denying the wealthy chiefs or would-be-chiefs any virtuous motives, as you erroneously assumed I ascribed to them, you are not disagreeing with me on their reasons for acquiring wealth in the first place. I was comparing that to the grasping lords of industry among us today, who hoard onan obscene scale with the intent of overpowering democratic institutions and bend them to their will and their supposed glory. At least that's the picture that emerges and what they actually proceed to do. Certainly a far cry from the village-based community builder if you ask me. I can move out of the village if I don't like it. 'Moving out' of the entire economic structure we are surrounded by is quite another kind of undertaking.