I was skeptical

I was skeptical of Steve's run back then and realized it was due to the negative media coverage So I started to watch the coverage Just before he reached the Terry Fox monument. I followed it fairly closely never agreeing that it was "his" run. He was just completing Terrys'.

But then one day I caught a newscast showing him running in a blizzard. I turned to my daughter and said "this event has just become Steve Fonyos' run". It was something to see and I will always remember that scene.

Steve has had his troubles but they pale in comparison to what Mulroney did to this country. OC? Political? Your damn right it is. And as far as I'm concerned as a citizen of this country, I don't recognize it anymore.

I could see stripping him if

I could see stripping him if he'd committed some serious crimes, but for driving without a licence ?

Admittedly a very stupid act, but nowhere near the stupidity of our politicians selling the country from under our feet, while calling it "free trade".

And then we come to the real bottom feeders, our so called "economists", who really should be in jail

Ed Deak.

Rafe, your comment about

Rafe, your comment about nuclear waste: Years ago I worked with a Brit who, at 1 time, had been a 2nd Officer on a nuclear waste disposal ship. He told me that would get their orders to go into specific port, load the waste, which was in 45 gallon drums, and take it to specific dumping grounds in either the Irish Sea, English Channel, or the North Sea. He was on board for 6 months and it was a full time job. That was in the early 70's, so imagine how much of that stuff is out there today.

Agreed

We have politicians who have committed greater sins than Steve has. Stripping him of the Order is plain stupid and really demeans the Order. Was it not for his sacrifice and contribution to Cancer Research? What has changed except that the man has faults? That is news?

Lets nuke BC

A Canwest survey a few months ago showed a 65% support in BC for uranium mining. This conforms to a consistent 65% support for nuclear power in Alberta and Saskatchewan.

A worldwide investment in 10000 new mass produced nuclear reactors would be paid for by and would end fossil fuel use, eliminate most air pollution saving millions of lives, end the global warming/peak oil problem with a 100% elimination of GHG's within a ten year time frame, is a great job producing economy boosting investment, requires only a small part of our industrial capacity, and pays for itself in less than three years.

If you look at the recent purchases and plans for high cost IPP power, Canwest/Gordo will have contracted for about 12000 Gwh's annual at around 12 cents a Gwh. Thats about 1.3 Gw baseload equivalent for $76B or $58B/Gw. Ontario recently rejected a quote as too expensive from Areva nuclear for $24B for 60 years of 30000 Gwh annually (3.3 Gw,$2.4B/Gw) in nukes all costs considered which works out to 1.5 cents a kwh . AECL completed reactors in China in 2004 in three years for $2B/Gw. Westinghouse is building reactors in China for 2013 service for $1.5B/Gw (2% Canwest/Gordo) and is predicting mass production at less the $1B/Gw (1% Canwest/Gordo).

Last year, in a slip of the tongue, BCHydro former exec and and now pirate leader, Dr. Bruce Ripley, P. Eng claimed BC was making a big mistake ruling out nuclear power.

http://www.straight.com/article-268649/bc-pushes-private-power

Just to give you an idea of what the rest of the world might be paying for power in ten years with 30 years to go on the Canwest/Gordo contracts read these

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steve-kirsch/climate-bill-ignores-our_b_221796.html
http://www.wired.com/magazine/2009/12/ff_new_nukes/

Gen IV reactors like the LFR and thorium LFTR's at $.5B/Gw would supply all the worlds energy needs for the next several centuries burning old nuclear waste at a cost of less than a half cent a kwh for high value baseload power less than 4% of the Canwest/Gordo commitment for low value intermittent power.The tiny amount of low level waste from IFR's is safe enough to put back in the mine. They cannot meltdown, are safe from terrorists and have almost a zero GHG footprint.

Gen IV reactors have worked for many years in the past before Big Coal/Oil got them shut them down in the west, but are working now in India and Russia, and several more are under construction for service within two years

As the best solution to nuclear waste disposal Obama in his state of the union has committed to building these nukes.

Reasoning Liberals, all Cons and Deniers will go along with some sort of a nuclear plan. Its politically and financially doable.

The extremely costly renewable option by delaying solution indefinitely kills a million people every year from toxic coal emissions and eventually drags us over that civilization ending climate/peak oil precipice.

Out of order

The act of stripping anyone of their order runs contrary, in my mind, to the whole idea of awarding it in the first place. If it is contingent on good behaviour afterwards, it is not awarded for accompishments you've actually made, but sort of to rank you higher in society, and then make this conditional on your loyalty. This smacks of the idea of old-fashioned titles of nobility and is distasteful in a supposedly egalitarian society. If the award is given for something you've done which is good, then it can never be taken away again, for no matter how your life shapes up later, your accomplishment stands.

Quite apart from these thoughts of principles, it evokes in anyone who has seen the images, in person or by way of celluloid, that acrimonious liittle tyrant with the moustache, who would rant and rave and scream, and then rip stars and stripes off his generals, when they didn't show themselves properly obsequious or blindly obedient. It makes an incredibly ugly set of thoughts and feelings wake up and turns the stomach. Makes an immigrant from 'over there' wonder if the monster is alive and well in our fair land, and we will have to get on the run again.

Who would guard the worn out

Who would guard the worn out reactors for 500,000 years ?

The main demand for huge power inputs are the sick economic theories forced on the world by the corporate mafia to get rid of workers. Our local mills are employing half the labour force of 30 years ago, use far more resources with many times the energy demands. Because it is "cheap".

Replacing the half hp. of a worker with 20 or 100 hp of other forms of energy is "efficient" in the warped minds of economists, as it increases their mythological nonsense of "productivity"

Get rid of "competition" and "globalization" not to mention unnecessary automation, and the energy demands will drop to a fraction of the present.

I started my first custom manufacturing business in Vancouver in 1957 and need no lectures on what can be done, because this crime wave was exactly the cause that brought me into economics in 1982, at the age of 55.

Ed Deak.

Fonyo

The benefit of this Order controversy is that it gives Steve something he hasn't seen since his first DUI - positive, due attention for his heroic run and support to cancer research.

The crusty dingbats at the Order of Canada have effectively given Fonyo official martyr status by stripping his medal away. This controversy has renewed the spotlight on Fonyo, when it really never should have gone dim in the first place.

I have no doubt you now have a lot of Canadian kids and teens, too young to recall "the other Terry Fox," asking their moms and teachers who this Steve Fonyo guy is. And hopefully mom and teacher say he's a Canadian hero who did an amazing, inspirations run across Canada and raised a whole lot of money for cancer research.

For Steve, if he plays this bit of attention right, he could really use it to get his life back on track, but if he doesn't, he's still a hero to me.

guarding wornout nukes

Nobody would need to as gen IV reactors are all low level waste similar to high grade uranium.

In fifty years all old gen reactors would be replaced with Gen IV's and their waste product sent to the GenIV fuel depot.

seth, I can remember when

seth, I can remember when nuclear power first became a reality and still have tons of magazines and articles full of its great promises and statements like: "It will be so cheap that it won't be worth reading the meters!"

How about radiated golf balls players could easily find in the grass with their small Geiger counters.
The science etc. magazines were full of this kind of crap, as they are now with new BS promises..

To the best of my recollection the liability of US nuclear power stations is limited to something like $50. million.? I may be wrong with the figure, but it is very small, considering the potential damage, like the 3 Mile Island disaster that killed livestock and people up into Canada, carefully covered up by governments on all sides.

Unfortunately, I still believe old Newton who said 300 years ago that all energy inputs will cause equal reaction and hope there's no such thing as reincarnation as I sure don't want to come back into a nuclear world. Bad enough as it is and I can already see the lies and coverups to hide the inevitable damages.

Don't we have enough cancers etc. already ?

The first question should be: "Do we really need that power, or is the demand only there to fill the system's "wealth creation" nonsense, while transferring liabilities and damages on others ?"

Ed Deak.

three mile island

Killed nobody that is a proven fact. The reactors safety systems worked as designed.

There is no liability insurance on the Grand Coulee dam either. With a big earthquake bye bye Portland.

I'm surprised Ed that you've so absolutely bought into that Big Oil/Coal bunkum on nuclear power.

The facts speak for themselves.Millions of people every year from toxic coal emissions and billions will die in that little as ten years from now climate disaster.

You have something other than nuclear that will stop that in that time frame?

Does your silly paranoia equate to millions dying every year?

Ed

You have a source for this, please?

Seth....I've seen what

Seth....I've seen what ideologically warped and bought scientists have done to this world, including the toxic emissions you mention. Now topped the damage up with GM seeds and foods without any independent examination of their effects on the environment and animal life. Yes, I know the few and what happened to the scientists who dared. E.g. Dr. Pusztay

I remember very well what our Cambridge professors told us about the harmlessness of the fruit tree sprays that killed my friends. I only got paralyzed, but survived. So far.

There are some 200,000 chemicals in use, of which less than 15,000 have been thoroughly tested for human and animal health effects. The meats and most of the foods you buy at your supermarkets contain enough to build bombs with. Totally unnecessarily, only for profit making purposes to separate producers from users and squeeze both sides for all the rulers can steal.

The solution is to work out economic systems that require the least energy inputs, in other words the presently used.

I'm in daily contact with some genuine scientist friends and will ask them what they know about this new nuclear racket ?

For my part I don't want to see anything like it, because the more we have the more chances for accidents.

Of course, I'm, also a slightly overeducated tradesman and organic farmer,and have a good idea of what can be done with the least energy inputs, in other words, what is called "physical efficiency".

Ed Deak.

Easy Peasey

Although there has been no significant rise in cancer deaths among residents living near the Three Mile Island site, a new analysis of health statistics in the region conducted by the Radiation and Public Health Project has, however, found that death rates for infants, children, and the elderly soared in the first two years after the Three Mile Island accident in Dauphin and surrounding counties.

Columbia University researchers showed that cancer cases within a 10 mile radius of the Three Mile Island plant soared 64% in the first five years after the 1979 meltdown.

three mile island once again

It is the power of Big Oil propaganda that even gary here has been sucked in. The tree island nonsense was not science just more propaganda.

Follow the court cases:

http://nucleargreen.blogspot.com/2009/12/harvey-wasserman-three-mile-island-and.html

Then think of all the people who die of lung disease because three mile island displaced all those toxic radioactive coal emissions.

whoops

"didn't die of lung disease"

On the nuclear issue:

Overall, I agree with Rafe's main argument -- the important thing is to rationally compare the pros and cons of all energy options (including reduced energy consumption) for cost, feasibility, health and environmental damage, and risks thereof. Very few other major industrial facilities are expected to meet as high a standard on safety and liability. At the same time, nuclear proponents often get away with twisting the financial arguments to over-emphasize cheap power in the future and under-emphasize huge initial costs and financial uncertainty.

On the particular question of nuclear waste, there is an interesting approach being taken in Canada politically to find a place to store all the waste. The Nuclear Waste Management Organization (established by the nuclear power companies as required under federal law) is following a kind of reverse-NIMBYism approach previously used in Finland and Sweden. Basically the idea is to make the first priority finding a community that fully supports the project, making sure they will get long-term benefits and addressing any concerns before a final decision is made.

I can't really judge the technical and financial prospects of the proposals, but I find it a really promising approach for interaction between government/industry and local communities. Imagine if other controversial large projects (pipelines, transmission lines, etc.) started with the community early on, instead of deciding on the technically most efficient option and then sending in the PR folks to convince the public.

On Steve Fonyo:

I have to say Barney is right on this one. I was only a toddler in 1984-85, and until this month I had never heard of Steve Fonyo, maybe was only vaguely aware that someone did eventually finish Terry Fox's run.

Terry Fox, I knew all about him of course. He's the Canadian hero, the tragic young man who gave so much but was taken too soon.

But Terry Fox never had a chance to sully the image that posterity made up for him. In death, he is preserved forever as the slight, curly-haired figure with the lop-sided gait, working his way along a lonely highway. Maybe he was a more stable person than Fonyo, as Rafe suggests. Maybe he would have been able to flourish under the bright lights of media attention. Maybe he would have gone on to countless other noble accomplishments that would have made his cross-country trek just an introduction to a glorious life. But we'll never know.

As for Fonyo, he has proved himself too human for hero-worship. I don't agree with Rafe that offences such as assault and impaired driving are not serious, but they also don't negate previous accomplishments. The question is: what is the purpose of the Order of Canada? Is it an award for things you have done, or a club for distinguished citizens?

A person is appointed to the Order "in recognition of their outstanding achievement and merit of the highest degree, especially in service to Canada or to humanity at large," says the founding legislation, which leaves open both options. It was a policy adopted five years ago that specifies that revocation should be considered (but is not mandatory) when someone has been convicted of a criminal offence.

( http://archive.gg.ca/honours/nat-ord/oc/oc-con_e.asp )

I don't know if I agree or disagree with the decision. I do know that it has enlightened me about a bit of Canadian history my education had overlooked, and has made me think seriously about the way we as a society choose our heroes, and expect a person to be either all good or all bad.

If there's anything in

If there's anything in nukes, we can rest assured the oil barons will do their best to take them over.

10% of every dollar spent on food in the USA now ends up in the pockets of the Philip Morris cigarette gang.

The world's food supplies are now controlled by about 3 corporations, who put millions of farmers, incl. here in Canada off their lands every year, while raising prices in the markets. The Canadian beef industry is now controlled by one US corporation, fixing prices, ruining hundreds of ranchers.

Years ago there was an article in the Harrowsmith magazine, showing a bubble shaped area reaching into Canada from 3 Mile Island, where the recorded damages have taken place. I may still have it somewhere.

I've spent many years busting communist propaganda and now of their idiot twin's the capitalists, and don't believe a word of either.When you generate that much energy, the damages will cancel out the benefits

Ed Deak.

The Order of Canada

It should henceforth be awarded only to those who have achieved something positive and outstanding for Canada AND are too old to ever be able do something to show they have feet of clay or do anything embarrassing beside crap themselves. Let's see that would be only those over about 80.

Sky.... I feel hurt ! I'm 82

Sky.... I feel hurt ! I'm 82 and still work to make myself as much of a bloody nuisance as possible to the rulers of the world.

No matter what colour flag they're waving and how much "freedom" they promise.

Needless to say I'll never get the Order, so it saves them from having to strip me.

By the way, the word "fonyo", now spelled "fono" means "spinner" in Hungarian. Just as a matter of interest.

Ed Deak.

Radiation and Public Health Project

From Wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_and_Public_Health_Project

"According to a 2003 New York Times article, the group's work has been controversial, and had little credibility with the scientific establishment.[2] Joshua Lipsman, the Westchester County health commissioner, called the group's work "junk science".[2] However, some scientists have defended the work, including Samuel Epstein, professor of environmental and occupational medicine at the University of Illinois, who said in 2003 that the group was "producing solid scientific work that stands critical peer review."[2]"

That being said, where is the evidence of a cover-up conspiracy?

Steve

Removing Fonyo's order of canada was a mean spirited bit of legerdemain unworthy of the so called enlightened spirits in charge of this file. Talk about kicking a guy when he's down!
Ouch! Snobbish shits! This particular 'little guy' stuck his neck out to benefit others in a massive way. Who on the committee of selection can say that they have done anything that even begins to match it?

Don't let this add to the bitterness, Steve. Just hang in there. Sometimes life seems to single us out for an unfair portion of crap, and who knows why? On behalf of the many of us would like to apologize for this committee of arrogant boneheads. So, Steve, let me say we're sorry! We owe you buddy, bigtime.

Garry Eaton

Nuclear will change the market, whether BC uses it or not

Rafe Mair is correct to say that we should be knowledgeable about modern nuclear technology even if we are not committed to use it at this point, or ever. Various research programs are accelerating with major funding commitments in USA and elsewhere. Designs for small scale nuclear installations look particularly promising.

Let's not project technology of the last 50 years to be unchanged in the next 50. Many people, including Rafe, have warned that the private power initiatives underway in this province require very high prices for electricity. If, ten years from now, advanced technology allow inexpensive power production - perhaps nuclear in the USA - the people of BC will be stuck with huge quantities of power bought high and sold low.

Private power producers know this, which is why they arranged for long term contracts forcing BC Hydro to buy their output. That moved the business risk from the private companies to the public. We've been royal effed.

http://northerninsights.blogspot.com/2010/01/after-careful-consideration-were.html

disposing of the waste

"It's been this problem that has for many people made the issue a non starter."

The stuff has a 50,000 year half-life and people have been storing it in the ocean in 45 gallon drums.

In the first place, explain to me anything that humanity has done that has successfully lasted 50,000 years. Then, as one of those who has considered the issue a non-starter, consider a recipe I couldn't make it through. It was a recipe for whale stew. It started with this sentence -

"First, cut your whale into one inch cubes."

A non-starter of significantly less magnitude than the storage of nuclear waste.

Just my 2¢ worth

Catastrophic Event Probability vs Nuclear Energy

There seems to be a disconnect between real threats to human/environmental safety and the risk-tolerance of the average British Columbian. Despite the low probability of an accident at a well-designed and maintained nuclear reactor (i.e, not an aging, poorly designed reactor in the crumbling Soviet Union)and continual advances in technology that reduce storage issues for spent nuclear fuel cells, Rafe mentioning the "N-word" is considered nothing short of heresy in BC. In contrast, we seem to willingly accept the risk of having someone we love killed by an impaired driver without feeling the need to march in the streets for more stringent laws. In the past two years, roughly thirty people (mainly women and children) have been killed in domestic violence in British Columbia. A civilized society should not tolerate such a statistic, but we don't even seem to notice. On the industrial front, the oil and gas industry is putting both workers and residents at increasing risk in the northeast corner of the province. Allowing oil companies to drill deadly sour gas(hydrogen sulphide)wells within a hundred metres of elementary schools and homes not only falls within the BC Oil and Gas Commission's guidelines, but seems to be an acceptable risk to the citizens of this province. Encana had a significant pipeline leak in November that put residents of Tomslake at risk. Why aren't people in the Lower Mainland and Vancouver Island appalled by that episode? We seem so fixated on Chernobyl and Three Mile Isalnd that we are oblivious to the very real threats to our well-being that occur in our daily lives.

Fonyo

Rafe, I'm usually "on-side" with your opinion BUT...
while I have no opinion really regarding the relinqueshment of Fonyo's medal I DO wasnt to comment on your rediculous comments that his troubles are only due to his consumption of alcohol- as though that was somehow a sufficient excuse to forgive him? and pity him??
This kind of attitude towards alcohol consumption is precisiely what is ALL WRONG with our society today!!
The Police, the Courts, even the Politicians all speak one line- and live another!! Our laws are totally hypocritical. Alcohol consumption is promoted at every level, but you are not to drink, and drive, yet at every gathering people drink, and then drive home!!
Meanwhile on the other hand we have the complete criminalization of Cannabis a far more benign drug which directly causes virtually no harm at all, except that due to the criminalization of it.
Alcohol use/abuse in our society should NOT be viewed as an excuse for people's bad behaviour!!
Premier Campbell take note! He ought NOT to be premier of B.C.