lets no compare ourselves to the USA

Before we start overhauling the education system, let's look at what is working well. We are not the USA, and our education system, in my estimation, is not in crisis, in fact we do quite well. On international tests, Canada compares well, and against western countries we do extremely well. Here in BC we compare well against the rest of the country. Sorry I don't have all the stats off the top of my head.

Before we go rushing head-long on a series of reforms that will upset the BCTF, the Ministry, parents and / or students let's think about what works well; and do we really need reforms. We are not in the crisis seen in the USA, so we should not all rush onto this education reform bandwagon.

how many inquiry/commissions can we afford?

I agree that Education for our young people is of paramount importance but I rather agree with Adrian Dix. We know what needs doing... put increased funding to reduce teacher/student ratio, support the vulnerable learners with enough support staff and support/enrichment/skills programs and then;like many European countries have been doing for decades, make post secondary education free.
Royal Commisions take forever,bring too many vested interests/participants with huge agendas to the table which makes for forever wrangling.
We know how funding for public schools have been chiseled away over these last 10 years so that education and parent group sectors have to hold out hopes of gaining dribs and drabs money from the gaming industry. How Dickensian is that???
No, Mr. Farnsworth, we need more substance than that, now!
Save the Inquirey money for a panel to spread out all the information from the B.C. Rail-Interrupted Trial.

More than funding

You cannot simplify education issues to funding. What I like about the Commission is it goes beyond the K-12 system... it looks at early learning's role in preparing kids for kindergarten and then K-12's role in preparing kids and teens for the work or further study.

The elephant in the room

...is the British Columbia Teachers Federation, which owns the NDP lock, stock and barrel. Any changes recommended by an NDP Government Commission would have to be approved by the BCTF - which would mean that their monopoly of public education would continue. Real reform - school vouchers, hiring and firing by merit rather than tenure,and allowing teachers to opt out of the union and its huge donations to the NDP - would be impossible under an NDP administration.

Sooke

You really shouldn't write such nonsense. Judging by your comments it appears you had a bad experience with the public school system and for some reason that is everyone's fault but yours.

Recommended Reading

"Weapons of Mass Instruction", "Dumbing us Down", or any other works of John Taylor Gatto should be required reading for all educators, not to mention students and parents.

The history of the public education system is enlightening for anyone wondering how our society came to be what it is today. The system was conceived of and implemented mainly by industrialists who wanted a work force with little real education, trained for the needs of the large factories rather than for their own benefit. Many of the founders and proponents of the system were quite candid about their intentions, which had nothing to do with public benefit and everything to do with dominance by wealthy elites.
The model thus created is so worn out and dysfunctional that it can no longer even produce competent wage workers much less the kinds of creative and innovative minds we need to face the future.

It is one of the great paradoxes of our society that so many "educators" are committed to a status quo which is no longer doing what it was meant to do, much less what it really should be doing.

The past 30 years has seen an explosion in the number of home learners, who number in the millions in North America, as parents have realized they need to take direct responsibility rather than expecting school to do what is is supposed to do.

This family has saved taxpayers about half a million dollars since 1981 by not using the school system, and only in the past few years were able to access any help at all from government. All our kids are now taxpaying workers and are in demand in their occupations because of their work ethic and social skills developed by spending time around people of all ages rather than being segregated by age.

Age segregation is one of the cornerstones of education in our society and is seen as afundamental principle of all K - 12 education.

As my brother pointed out to me back in '81, when I was having some doubts about taking on this responsibility, this occurs nowhere but in school - everywhere else in life we deal with people of all ages!

Our system holds back the brightest students with the assumption that moving ahead too fast would separate bright kids from their age groups - as if that would be some kind of disaster.

In a society based on knowledge, initiative and creativity, this is incredibly stupid.

One justification I have heard is that it would be harder for teachers if students learned at different paces - which means it is more about convenience for teachers than about facilitating the best learning opportunities for students.

BC Liberals the elephant destroying our education system

If Farnworth doesn't understand the problem, then he isn't qualified to be the leader.

The situation is quite simple. The conservative right (BC Liberals & Fed. Conservatives) throughout North America are pushing for the privatization of everything, including schools and it takes time to achieve this. So the Fraser institute has implemented their own, disproven, scoring system for our schools. To quote George Lakoff, the renowned cognitive scientist and linguist who has deconstructed their attempts to destroy our adequate school system:

Quote:

"Once the testing frame applies not just to students but also to schools, then schools can, metaphorically, fail—and be punished for failing by having their allowance cut. Less funding in turn makes it harder for the schools to improve, which leads to a cycle of failure and ultimately elimination for many public schools. What replaces the public school system is a voucher system to support private schools. The wealthy would have good schools—paid for in part by what used to be tax payments for public schools. The poor would not have the money for good schools. We would wind up with a two-tier school system, a good one for the “deserving rich” and a bad one for the “undeserving poor.”

Our schools were not perfect when the BC Liberals got started in 2001, but we had a good system, with excellent teachers and policies. After 10 years of privatization and school closures, we don't need a commission to tell us what to do. We need to get back to where we were and stop the majority of funding to private schools.

Farnworth is naive at best, in suggesting we need another commission. We need to use our common sense to operate our schools, not a conservative agenda of privatization.

Commission Yes

Anyone who tells me that they want to study a problem before jumping into action to resolve it, has my vote.

As much as I dispise the Liberals, we can't assume that everything they did was wrong and by simply turning the system 180 degrees everything will be fixed.

We need a commission to determine what needs to be repealed and what new initiatives need to be implemented.

Education is our second most important issue and needs to be dealt with respect. Decision can't and shouldn't be made without fully understanding our current shortfalls and defining our short and long term goals.

Holding a commission doesn't mean we can't make short term changes to the obvious short comings of the education system.

One simple question

If things are so dire....why does BC have the lowest high school drop out rate in the country?

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/boasts+lowest+high+school+drop+rate+Canada/4070067/story.html

Note also what professor John Richards, SFU social policy scholar, has to say about the FSA testing that the BCTF has an annual tantrum over:

"Although drop-out rates have been improving across the country, Richards said strategies are needed to help those who are falling through the cracks. In particular, he says there is a need to collect and use data about student performance in core subjects. Such data is collected in B.C. in Grades 4 and 7 through the Foundation Skills Assessment (FSA)."

happy

How can you support a test that hasn't been used by the government to improve schools?

The only use for the test since it was introduced has been used by the Fraser Institute to give its ratings of schools credibility. A credibility it doesn't deserve when you look at how they manipulate their rankings. Yet people accept it because they think its based on the test.

So again, why would you support the expense of a policy that's only use is to distort information?

Education Needs Consistent Support

Our province's social support infrastructure is constantly under attack by private sector alternatives looking to make a profit servicing the wealthy and elite.

This is undermining our ability to improve the public system in a manner that requires everyone's attention. When the new leader of the Liberal party admits to sending her children to an elitist private school, then we really have a problem because this sends a message that even the government does not have faith in the public system that they, themselves, are administering.

It's time that we demand that all government officials and employees support the public eduction system and that a heavy luxury tax be levied on those that send their children to private schools.

Feeding the provinces economy with artificial booms through economically-based immigration importing elitist and dirty money from Asia and elsewhere is a major contributor to this problem. IT MUST BE STOPPED!

I'm not voting for this BS.

I'm not voting for this BS.

We have a wonderful education system that is being undermined and attacked in the same way our health care system is being attacked.

I want to vote NDP. But, if you play games like this, I won't.

sooke is so wrong he's libellous

Says sooke: "Real reform - school vouchers, hiring and firing by merit rather than tenure,and allowing teachers to opt out of the union"
That would be a more convincing argument if anyone could point to a place where such a system works. You may hate unions, but you have to hate children as well to make such a statement: the BCTF has done far more to advocate for and protect the interests of children and their education than any other body I'm aware of, and that includes the present government.
And then there's the libel of his assertion that the BCTF makes "huge donations to the NDP". As far as I know the BCTF never donates to political parties. Not ever. That's at least partly because it's a fully democratic union, and many teachers don't support the NDP. Or the Liberals, for that matter.

Frank

You'll have to ask that question of the professor. I just provided the link, not the substance.
What I do know though is the BCTF is legally and contractually bound to carry out work as assigned by thier employers within thier job scope. And the FSA testing falls within that scope. They are free to grieve if they desire.
Thats how it works everywhere else.

But what about my original question that you skipped over?

Fixing the education system

All begins with step #1...
Stop paying out more than 220 million dollars of taxpayers money every single year to support and run private and independent schools in this province...put that money back into the public system where it belongs.

The BC Liberals are the source of this perversion and they ought to be excoriated for it at every opportunity.

Public funds for public schools - and no exceptions.

GWest

I hear our new premier sends her kid to private school?

Dix will be batting her around like a tennis ball over that one.

home schooling

Assumes that the parents are literate enough to educate their children at home. And motivated enough. Usually, in these households both are true. Under such conditions a student will learn well. The internet works for some but not others. It doesn't work for me and I have a university degree. However, this still doesn't address the social aspect of school.

You also have to remember that most learning disabilities are inherited. You don't really expect the learning disabled to teach the learning disabled.

And it's not all about the BCTF. Has the husband of a teacher I believe they have legitimate concerns. My wife's school has 110 learning disabled students and 25 behaviour disordered students in a total population of 625. There are 2 special needs teachers and 1 for the behaviour disordered. Each class has at least 6 "needs" kids. The maximum is supposed to be 3. For these children its almost impossible to get a quality education. Which is what they need if you want them to become taxpaying citizens. The current system lets them grow up to collect their CPP Disability pension where it's the Federal budget that foots the bill and not the provincial one. However, in both cases the taxpayer is the same. Perhaps a more co-ordinated approach is in order.

Another commission for the faint of heart

A commission on education is just another distraction from addressing the real core of the problem:

The stealing of the common good to feed the greed of a few.

The decimation of human rights.

The decimation of the rights of workers.

The privatization and decimation of the natural world.

Rampant corporate fraud facilitated and rewarded by complicit governments.

A mainstream media that IS the neo-con agenda. A media intentionally created and funded to maintain the status quo through disinformation. A media that silences all controversy, all protest, by ignoring, denying, and by consistently failing to report on that which the public vitally deserves to know.

First, Mr. Farsnworth, we must deal with the rampant corporate government fraud that is being perpetrated and sustained through constant reward, instead of being curtailed through severe punishment.

Word of the devastating collapse of the social foundation of our almost anachronistic 'human civilization' has yet to be uttered or said out loud, by anyone in a position of 'trust' whose duty it is do so.

When will someone say something meaningful and relevant?

So far, it's very quiet on the Western front.

A good education?

Where do we start?

What does it mean to be civil and decent to one another?

To be human?

What does it mean to have the right to bargain in good faith for those rights?

So far , here in the Western world, only the people out on the streets, in Wisconsin and Ohio have displayed the courage to say what needs to be said out loud - with vigor and force, with meaning.... and with relevancy to the reality of this dire time.

Just those 'truly educated' few.

The need for a commission on education pales in comparison......in terms of courage, conviction....and urgent necessity.

Quit wasting our time.

BC schools doing well, system broken

Sooke, do you really believe that the BCTF ruled the NDP, when the Harcourt-Clarke regime mandated a 3 year teacher's contract of 0-0-3 % salary increases during their 90s government mandate? Less than cost of living increases.

Teachers in BC earn up to $10,000 a year less than their counterparts in Ontario and Alberta, yet B.C. students perform well compared to other provinces and western nations on those somewhat meaningless standardized tests, which results the Fraser Institute trots out every year.

JT Gatto makes some very good points in both books, particularly about the 19th. century, Prussian model of compulsory education, but there are a few holes in his thesis, given 21st. century needs.

Consider the mechanic that used to be able to do an engine diagnosis and then do the repairs in a home garage. Not really possible today.

New technologies require highly specialized skills that most students would be hard pressed to acquire at home.

Furthermore, original ideas percolate through many minds. Consider the science and tech challenges good teachers provide to their students, such as the popsicle stick building projects or the remote controlled "robot wars".

Schools, if well directed, also provide a safe meeting place for youth from different cultures and backgrounds, where again, the ideas percolate. Home schooling rarely provides those opportunities.

Yes, there are risks, but Gatto points out the need for youth to take some risks in their fuller maturation.

Another myth is that a liberal education, which would be most suited to a considerable number of students, is viewed as useless and expensive, and therefore it is under attack by much of the business community. Gatto's point that these don't want really thoughtful citizens may be part of this attack.

Learn interpersonal skills, such as conflict resolution or anger management, not primarily for your own wellbeing, but to increase productivity for the organization.

Learning, not business

The business model of education may work well at the board and infrastructure level of education, but not at the student level. The blueberry story deserves a repeat. A successful ice cream producer tried to convince public school educators of running schools like businesses. A teacher asked “What do you do with less than high quality crates of blueberries that arrive at your loading dock?” He responded “We send them back.” The teacher said “We take them all” (can’t say that about the cherry picking of private schools).

Given this perspective, standardized testing, such as provincial exams, have a place in assessment, but certainly not as exit tickets to the next grade or high school graduation. Superintendents grumble when their schools fall below the provincial averages (remember only 50% of schools can be at or above provincial averages) and teachers are forced to teach to the often mundane tests, rather than to more meaningful objectives and outcomes.

With learner centered education, teachers don’t just need human assistants, but also classroom and student management (testing, individual record keeping, etc.) technology. It exists but is mostly 10 to 15 years out of date and not very user friendly. Could it be that there is not enough profit to be had, or that school districts can’t afford it, or that it doesn’t fit the big, private education materials publishers’ objectives. God forbid that teachers might have the time to create their own materials and lesson plans.

Of course, smaller and less demanding classes might help. Given the smaller classrooms in new schools (try an evening course to see for yourself) one would think that so many bodies in a confined space would present more than one health and safety issue.

Free, post secondary education for those qualified is an old idea that deserves another look. Think of how many unemployed and underemployed lifelong learners could find niches in the job market.

Corporations used to train their own workers but not so anymore, perhaps rightly so given the current system. But by reducing taxes to big corporations, it allows them to abdicate responsibilities to the community they rely on. Instead of poaching skilled workers from other countries and complaining that they don’t have enough, they should make mandatory contributions without branding or “tied aid” to post secondary institutions that will provide skilled workers they need.

Yes, there are many great educational ideas out there to modernize our educational system for the betterment of our youth and communities, but even the best require funding, and that is unlikely to adequately happen if the underlying ideology is to privatize. Gatto points out, especially in the U.S., that the system is succeeding in its real mandate to fail. But it doesn’t need to be that way.

BC Needs a Commission on Education

As a school trustee in Vancouver I fully support Mike Farnworth’s proposal to establish a commission on education in the 21st century. I believe that a comprehensive examination and review of education in BC should study and report on the continuum of early learning, K-12, and post secondary education.

The proposed commission should be charged with the responsibility of presenting a vision and action plan for ensuring that BC has an early learning, K-12, and post secondary agenda that will prepare students to succeed in the 21st century.

Specifically, the commission should study and report on questions such as:
•What vision and principles should guide the education of early learning, K-12, and post secondary students in our province?
•What knowledge, skills, and values do students need to prepare them for the 21st century.
•How should curriculum be organized and delivered in our education system?
•What is the best way to help students make effective transitions from home to early learning, K-12, and from school to post secondary and work/community life, further education or training?
•What are the new roles and responsibilities of teachers to meet the needs of every student? How should teachers be prepared for those new roles and responsibilities?
•What standards should be set for early learning, K-12, and post secondary students and how and by whom should they be established?
•How should continuous quality improvement be ensured in the education system?

•What should be the respective roles and responsibilities of the partners of education? (ie: students, parents, teachers/other educators, boards of education, other governance boards, Ministry of Education, Advanced Education, and other ministries of government?
•How should information technology be used to support student learning?
•What is the appropriate structure and level of funding for early learning, K-12, and post secondary education in our province?

In addition to the establishment of a commission on education, the provincial government has a responsibility to work with Boards of Education to address the funding crisis in public education. Government education funding has not kept pace with rising costs, BC school district have had to make millions of dollars of spending reductions over several years due inadequate provincial funding. In the short term, the provincial government has a responsibility to provide Boards of Education with additional education funding to enable school districts to meet the real costs of running school districts.

Now is the time for commission on education in our province. The commission has the potential to prepare a blueprint to ensure the BCs children and youth are well-prepared for the challenges of the 21st century.

Mike Lombardi
Trustee
Vancouver Board of Education

happy

What's wrong with a strike? You're against those too? Why exactly? Because of the cost or because its people not shutting up?

Alex? He's called me a bunch of names in the past on his blog because I supported the federal Coalition of the NDP and Liberals. Very right-wing guy, that's for sure.

As for his thoughts on the BCTF, he obviously doesn't know the facts or at least prefers not to present them in his column.

"The BCTF do not want their members to be revealed as lackeys"

So how does the Fraser Institute do that? By manipulating the numbers. Which means the tests are irrelevant, its the message of the Fraser Institute that he likes. Public education is bad and private education is good. Even teachers without degrees in Bountiful are better teachers than BCTF teachers according to Alex and the F.I.

Unfortunately they don't have the data to make that assessment but why stop a good ideology getting on a roll just because of a lack of facts?

He also quotes Sean Leslie and here's a zinger from him "What this is really all about is the B.C.T.F.’s continuing refusal to make teachers accountable to parents"

Really? So parents get their kid's standardized tests and compare them to others across the province and then go in to the school and demand accountability? Where exactly has this ever occurred except in a Sean Leslie wet dream?

Unschoolers not imprisoned in the home

"Schools, if well directed, also provide a safe meeting place for youth from different cultures and backgrounds, where again, the ideas percolate."

The idea that the schoolyard is a safe place is far out of date. Many teachers will admit while they may have control in the classroom, there is very little control in the yard, where drug dealing, bullying, sexual harassment and the constant pressure to conform - meaning, be a mindless consumer like most of your peers - are constantly present. Schools offer no guarantees of safety, nor accept any liability for what happens there.

"New technologies require highly specialized skills that most students would be hard pressed to acquire at home."

Obviously noone will learn brain surgery or how to fly a jet at home (though there are many aspects of those that involve reading which can be done anywhere.) These are examples of specialized training which will always require some sort of institution to provide, not comparable to the K - 12 experience. We can assume by the time one reaches these levels that discipline and motivation won't be an issue. During my one year at UBC, noone cared whether I passed, or failed due to poor effort, or attended class at all - it was not the professor's job to motivate us, but to teach those who wanted to make the effort to learn!

cont'd

"Furthermore, original ideas percolate through many minds."

Home learners are not imprisoned at home, and often get to experience more travel and alternative activities than their friends in school. Our kids have attended events like the Vancouver Writers' Festival, NDP conventions, regional land use table meetings, been to the Aquarium, Science World, museums, cathedrals, seen the West Coast of Vancouver Island in the wild winter and the salmon fishers of Moricetown in the fall, and on and on, at times they would have been stuck in the classroom.

Nowadays alternatives are available from regular correspondence courses to the Self Design learning program, and many regionally registered home learners accessing resources.

Our approach was always more about substance than form, with qualifications being achievable when necessary by various means including challenging course exams or being evaluated by a "qualified educator". Of course, the will and the effort to learn must be there, and whatever time is required to prepare must be committed.

My experience with slow learners (I hate the label "learning disabled") was based on being a fast learner who was often asked for assistance by classmates throughout my school years. I seemed to have a gift of simplification, for being able to explain what the teacher had said or meant in a way those I helped could understand, and to give them a perspective which helped them break the mental blocks which held them back.
One of the main blocks was the notion that they couldn't get it because they just were not intelligent enough - once that is established in a kid's mind it is immeasurably harder for them to learn - once they realized they could understand, they soon started to figure things out for themselves and found they were a lot smarter than they had known.

The system does that to many children, creating winners and losers, and does not understand how to draw out the interest and abilities of those who don't pick things up as fast any better than it does for the brightest students.

I understand today that as Gatto reminds us, the system is doing exactly what it is meant to do, and that obscurity and verbose overcomplication are not accidental.

Is it the learners who are disabled or the system?

Nothings wrong with a strike Frank

There is everything wrong with an ILLEGAL one.
Period. It's breaking the law. Period.
You know the difference.
Let me ask you - whats wrong with going through the greviance procedure? It works for all other unions. You win some, you lose some and both sides accept the results.
Thats how it works in the Real World. Why not the BCTF?
I honestly believe there is some sort of Ivory Tower syndrome at work here. Most teachers have been in a school thier entire lives, one way or the other, and never been "outside"

So....AGT's a windbag when it comes to the BCTF but a god when it comes to BC Rail?
You never said that, just curious.

happy

The teachers are against the FSA, management (principals) is against the FSA, many parents are against the FSA. Even some Liberal leadership hopefuls were against the FSA.

The only people who aren't is the government, yet the teachers are still administering the test. They aren't going on strike on FSA test days are they?

As for breaking the law you seem to worry about it when its the BCTF but not when it was Liberals doing it. You've posted more words against the BCTF's strike than you ever did about the BC Rail case.

Seems you're pretty particular about what you consider "illegal".

As for the "real world", the BCTF exists in the real world. Teachers deal with real problems, do you?

"So....AGT's a windbag when it comes to the BCTF but a god when it comes to BC Rail?"

I didn't bring him up, you did. You're the one that quotes him when it comes to the BCTF but you've never quoted him in the past about BC Rail. Why is that? Could it be that you think Alex is quotable when it comes to his own thoughts but not when he posts memos written by other people?

Happy based on the issue you refer to...

...I would say that if in your opinion a teacher protest is illegal when the government unilaterally strips away contract provisions there is something seriously wrong with your argument and the government action. If contracts are not legally binding then the the line between legal and illegal is not very clear. You may wish to use different examples . I applauded then as I do now the teacher's action. It was the Campbell government that acted "illegally".

Improve the language first ...

It is astounding the stupidity of Anglo-Saxon governments (although I am sure the companies who have vested interests and lobby hard have something to do with that) who, instead, of dealing with a huge breach try to patch the small holes with tooth picks. Let's face it! If these people knew what they are talking about (and they don't, regardless of their degrees), they would fix the core issue: ENGLISH! Speak to any linguistic professor of any repute and they will need to admit that the language is a mess! But, let's not fix that! Let's fix kids instead! Many cultures have improved their languages, but NOT ENGLISH! ANd, of all languages, it sure could use a severe upgrade! ALL these economists and politicians talk about efficiencies and saving a buck or two, but making the language efficient! Oh! NO! Of course, it will not be easy! It will ask them to speak to other provinces, other countries! Oh! No! We need vision? We need long-term planning! Oh! FOre those who are afraid that they will need to learn the new system. DON'T WORRY! We are not talking about you! YOU and I are dinosaurs! Beside, these kinds of change will take a generation! Let's see who is smart? I wonder what the Chinese are thinking! I wonder! HINT! HINT! HINT! The school system is not bad, although teachers are orverburden with paperwork! I am retiring because C. Clark and the Liberals have killed my joy of teaching! BYE! BYE!

Wrong Skywalker

The government acted illegally in the HEU dispute and the courts ruled against them and they paid the price.
No laws were broken by the government in the BCTF issue. The BCTF broke the law in that one and the courts ruled against them and they paid the price.
The elected government of the day writes the laws. Just b/c you don't agree doesn't make those laws illegal and gives anyone the right to break them.
Didn't the NDP have to order them back to work also?

happy

And are you saying that maybe "everything" isn't wrong with an "illegal" strike as long as it isn't in BC?

Fact is, there was nothing wrong with that strike. The teachers were not willing participants to the contract. The government used its ability to write laws to make what the teachers did illegal. That may hold sway with people who think Campbell selling BC Rail to his campaign manager for a song was okay but not with me.

As for BC Rail, Basi and Virk say they were following orders. Memos show information was coming from cabinet meetings. Corruption and bribery happened.

The police and the government say nothing was wrong but they would say that wouldn't they? After all, they didn't want a trial and paid $6 million to make sure it didn't proceed. They did that because they didn't want the public to hear what was going on. $6 million buys a coverup in BC.

If the government had nothing to hide they would have refused to pay the legal bills of the people they hired and would instead have had a trial to prove Basi and Virk acted alone.

Finally, nothing to say about quoting from Alex on the issue of BCTF but ignoring the Basi memos that he posts? I guess he's a god when it comes to the BCTF and out to lunch on BC Rail eh?

Game, set and match Frank

This kind of argument could only take place in the upside-down Looking-Glass world of Gordon Campbell's morally bankrupt British Columbia: It is not immoral to refuse to obey an unjust law or to refuse to pretend that a trumped up contract is real collective bargaining. To obey such unjust law is to give credence to its oppressive power.

To obey a law that punishes where no crime exists is to surrender to tyranny and those who do so endorse the oppression. Paying a fine to acknowledge that oppression is an act of heroism.

Gradually such a bankrupt society will experience a crisis in public confidence - exactly the kind of thing that is occurring on an almost daily basis in this province.

Teachers, and the BCTF ought to be applauded for their actions - they care more for the future of this province and its people than any of the trolls and slugs in the BC Liberal party and its purblind and power hungry supporters.

Stop paying for private schools and the patrician trolls who attend them - it is that action - wasting the public resources instead of spending them on the public - which is the real moral crime in BC education today.

Commission is a great idea

A commission is actually a very good idea. I would more fear action from people who want to look good but have no real experience in the system...take the example from the article:

"BCSTA president Connie Denesiuk says the government has responded by fostering discussion around 21st century or personalized learning, inspiring districts to think about the future of education already." (The gyst was so we don't need to do anything anymore).

However, if you research the 21st Century Learning initiatives, it will initially look very good - slick, professional, just what we need. But then you realize it is based on a system from the United Kingdom which is rated poorly like the American system. Also the UK system is based upon test after test, like in Japan. Then when you see how much higher we rate in BC, and if you teach in the system you see also that (though we can learn from some of the methods which frankly already are happening here) the 21st Century "antidote" doesn't really apply, you realize that the 21st Century Learning initiative from the Ministry is ... oh gee, (not?) political hype, profit-oriented hallucination and wow, just plain delusion.

It was the Premier's Technology Council which originally put out the BIG announcement http://www.gov.bc.ca/premier/attachments/PTC_vision%20for_education.pdf about how we needed to base school on tech to keep up with these students. Why wasn't the Ministry of Education the one to, in a wise fashion, make the call as they should know something about education rather than business people?
Hmmmm...

I admit I was first hooked by Sir Ken Robinson's brainwashing and beautiful video (this is the video the highly paid speakers from the UK are using to flog 21st Century Learning) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDZFcDGpL4U and I did like the CLC's videos of schools doing experiential learning on BC Islands. http://www.ccl-cca.ca/CCL/AboutCCL/21stCentury/Resources/Video.html But...

But... after further research, I came to actually, and independently feel somewhat like this article from...oops the BCTF. Is it a crime to actually read those documents, and uh, maybe agree? It was actually a very realistic write-up and gave some positive points about the 21st Century Learning, too.

However, I agreed that perhaps this new 21st Century approach is a great push by our government because business needs more tech in the schools because if A LOT more could be spent on tech it would be keep the economy going - and believe me schools are a bottomless pit for tech. And I also agreed that the a rationale for 21st C learning was that the Province needs FEWER students to actually be bums in seats. They want more kids taking online education, home-based education, and paying for their own extra-curricular activities and getting credit for that, plus more independent studies taken on their own. CHEAPER.

more from Commission is a great idea

Sigh, with the Province who is charged constitutionally with the task of making sure our kids are well-educated the whole thing is quite cynical.

Come on people, you KNOW a commission would unearth all of the antics, politics and funding issues behind the scenes in the bureaucracy and with politicians of all stripes. It really NEEDS to happen. Otherwise, educators and schools are going to be scapegoats for a long time to come, OR people just aren't going to agree and we will waste more and more money treading water with education. Through a commission we would see who really deserves blame, if anyone, and we might be nudged (pushed) in the direction of some real and worthy answers.

Here's the link to the BCTF article

Everyone should read it to understand what is going on. At least allow it to provide some perspective. 21st Century is NOT the only option out there, though it has been a very EXPENSIVE ONE for the Provincial government - they and districts have paid ALOT to take the whole approach lock, stock and barrel.

http://bctf.ca/uploadedFiles/Public/Issues/21CL/21CL-DiscussionPaper.pdf

Stewart M., there are some

Stewart M., there are some very good reasons, geographic or ambulatory amongst others, for home schooling and there is great potential in this area.

But some of your reasoning is problematic.

Been in a grade 12 Physics, Calculus or Chemistry class amongst others lately? The vast majority of parents wouldn't know where to start helping their kids. Meaningful on-line assistance only works until the other end gets overloaded.

Same problem in the classroom. Many teachers (not the few laziest or most arrogant) are very good at explaining and simplifying difficult concepts, if they are given enough time in a student centred learning environment. Most teachers are highly motivated to do exactly that.

I applaud your efforts to get your kids out there. Its truly meaningful learning that is difficult to match in the classroom on a regular basis.

But so many parents don't have the financial resources (likewise the case for private schools), or time to do all those wonderful activities. Many parents can't afford even such subsidized programs as student exchanges or student trips to the island caves or Mt. St. Helens or to the Victoria legislature, etc..

As to the risks "... there is very little control in the (school) yard, where drug dealing, bullying, sexual harassment and the constant pressure to conform - meaning, be a mindless consumer like most of your peers - are constantly present."

Guess what? There is even less CONTROL in our parks, woods, beaches, behind fast food outlets, sometimes neighbours yards and homes or on the internet. It is, as Gatto points out, a distasteful and sometimes dangerous, but necessary minefield that youth must navigate. School staff can help here in many cases. A considerable number of parents can't.

DenisB

Not necessarily, DenisB:

http://hubpages.com/hub/The-Link-Between-Nutrition-and-Learning-Disabilities

Funding cuts outside of the mainstream view

The effects of the funding cuts, de-funding, and transferring/shifting of funding responsibilities that have occurred so that the Liberals can say that they've 'increased' funding per student is at the core of many of the problems in the education system.

That being said, I would like to add that outside of the mainstream K-12 is not only where many of these cuts have been inflicted more deeply (most wouldn't know because they're kids--or friends kids, etc--are in the mainstream). Reduction of LD and special needs specialists; teacher-librarians; amalgamation of psychometric testing and counseling specialists into streamlined school and/or district based teams that has seen the wait line for such testing to the most needy double and triple in such an exaggerated fashion that many kids identified by teachers in grade 8 will reach their senior year (if they don't drop out) before getting actual help.

On top of that, many mini-schools, alternative schools, and support structures have been cut. Again, the cuts to these already vulnerable and marginalized areas has a much more dire effect than the already dire cuts to the main stream system.

Then, take an aspect of education I consider both alternative and harm reduction, the area I work in: adult education (in the DTES, specifically). We've never really had a budget to speak of, nor resources, nor access to resources--yet, our students are the most vulnerable, marginalized, and stigmatized in the entire system.

It is not only that education has to change--and teachers (among others) are at the core of this change--but also that we have to realize that the mainstream system is not capable of catching ALL students; and, so we need to support and fund those who fall through the cracks--most of whom are really pushed through the cracks because the regular system is so under-funded and staffed to meet the needs of even the main stream students!

The argument that our system is world class is morally bankrupt as is so-called "21st Century Learning" if we accept that what we have is adequate: it is not. We should not be striving for adequate; we should be striving for the what's in the best interest and is the best support for society.

For my part, I don't even know if adult education will survive...

Gotta remember "preview"

before "post" button *sheesh*

Sorry for the errors....if it helps, I'm as forgiving and supportive of my students as I hope you'll be with me :-)

SharingIsGood

When I read he was a former political adviser to Bill Vander Zalm it all sort of made sense.

Say something along the lines of a Coalition being legal in our parliamentary system and the guy starts dropping f-bombs all over the place and going on an anti-socialist tirade that would make Richard Nixon blush. I thought he was either a borderline nutcase or a formal adviser to Bill Vander Zalm. Now I know.

"And are you saying that

"And are you saying that maybe "everything" isn't wrong with an "illegal" strike as long as it isn't in BC?"

Not sure where you got that from but...lets just confine this to BC and Canada. The courts are crystal clear on illegal strikes. Its against the law. Thats from the Supreme Court of Canada. Thats why the BCTF was fined 500,000.
I'm sure the BCTF can afford the best lawyers to argue thier "moral justification" to break the laws of Canada. They had thier day in court. The court didn't buy it. Its got nothing to do with me.

Re B&V, yup, just following orders. As we say, thats thier story and they're sticking to it. I would to.
Your theory means the RCMP are involved in a massive coverup b/c they've been paid off. That would be FAR worse than whatever B&V did or didn't do and would pretty much destroy the Force. Sorry, thats just too tin foil hat for me.

Lastly AGT. I just tossed that in there as I find it humuorous the way many posters here (not saying its you) rant and rave about right wing journalists like AGT spreading lies but all that is instantly dismissed in a case like this.
Another example was the Auditor General report on BC Ferries and Hahn that was very uncomplimentary to Gordo and the libs. She was hailed as a shining light of integrity for standing up to bully Gordo.
But then when that same person issued a report on the VSB going over budget and how it should be handled then that person was instantly classed a stooge and lackey.
And then of course the biggest flip flop of all....the Zalm. No that Recall has petered out I fully expect Zalm to reclaim his spot as a hated right wing neo

Parents/taxpayers (employers) , NOT teachers, to set contract

Since when do employees - especially teachers, who have fairly minimal education, after all - set all the terms of their employment contract?

Somehow B.C. teachers have managed to contract out of just about any criticism. Students/parents seeking an independent review of a classroom complaint are invariably sent back to the teacher to work it out as a merely private matter. Parents with money occasionally toss the dice in court, which rarely, if ever, assists in these matters. I mean, how do you get rid of the legion of sub-performers if there is neither a review/evaluation or complaints procedure - a proper one, anyway - in place?

Time for the Parent Advisory Council (PAC) to devolve into the Parent Teacher Association (PTA) of old, a forum that encouraged the free and open discussion of ALL school activities, including any and all disputes with teachers and administrators. Fundraising matters should be a separate add-on to the agenda (if at all).

If local school boards won't grow some guts and act on aggressive teacher performance reviews, parents/taxpayers must!

happy

"The courts are crystal clear on illegal strikes. Its against the law."

Irrelevant, people have an intrinsic right to fight back against unjust laws. Which is what that was.

I know you don't want to go outside Canada, but even in Wisconsin people are fighting back against unjust legislation. The courts will side with the government because they will stick to the letter of the law. But again, that's just irrelevant as it is in Libya.

Governments that pass laws to shut people up or strip away rights should be removed. They aren't. But that doesn't mean that a majority with the power to write new laws at will should be allowed to strip away the rights of minorities and people have to just accept it. This isn't 1930's Germany.

"The courts are crystal clear on illegal strikes. Its against the law."

You brought it up as a justification for the tests.

"Your theory means the RCMP are involved in a massive coverup b/c they've been paid off."

Nice try, my theory is that the government once again used its power to prevent the defence putting government people on the stand and to prevent the defendants side of the story from being heard.

"yup, just following orders. As we say, thats thier story and they're sticking to it."

Have a trial, let's hear their case before you dismiss it. Or are you in favour of not having courts anymore and jsut letting the government put people in jail on a whim?

"I just tossed that in there as I find it humuorous the way many posters here rant and rave about right wing journalists like AGT spreading lies but all that is instantly dismissed in a case "

I find it highly amusing that the person who complains the most about it does it himself.

topic

This has been a useful forum for some good opinion but there have been a few writers who have a hobby horse that takes us off in tangents that don't speak to Mike Farnworth's suggestion of a commission.

Stay on topic and offer your opinion on whether you want to dither around unpacking the archaic practice of letting business be the model or be brave and draft a plan with NDP skill and knowhow for setting things right. Yes,by all means; get input from teachers and experts on brain development from doctors,researchers and university folk.
I'm a retired teacher now reading "The UltraMind Solution" Fix Your Broken Brain by healing Your Body First authored by Mark Hyman M.D.
Bring in the brains, Mike (and there have been some great suggestions from teachers and nutrition researchers here in some comments; by teachers who have been in the trenches, it sounds like)Mike...get on with it now, please! Lots of educated people will come forward to help.Glad you are talking the importance of education!!! Let's get on it!

What has this got to do with education?

I know a nurse who, after 20 years of gradually working to improve the quality of care and the living environment of the 40 bed long term care facility she supervised, had managed to establish hours of care provided at 3.2 hours per patient per day.

In 2006 she was commanded (I use the term deliberately), by the Northern Health Authority, to reduce the hours to 2.8 per patient based on a provincial average from a little handbook.
No consideration was given to acuity level in this facility, though there can be wide variation depending on level of disability.

For example, if two or three residents suffered from dementia and were prone to punching out the nurses or care aides who were bathing or cleaning or feeding them, more bodies would be required in the room to ensure no damage was done.

In real terms, loss of patient hours means people waiting longer for baths, or to be taken to the toilet, or cleaned up if they didn't get there in time, etc etc etc - in other words, as real as blood, feces and urine!

Fighting to protect residents turned out to be futile, as professional code of ethics or not, she was repeatedly ordered to make cuts which she could not in good conscience do.
The stress and probably related thyroid issues, drove her out of the career she loved and did so well, to become one more liability to the system. Insurance companies are not fond of paying long term disabilities to senior nurses, and will stick it to any employer who has LTD recipients just as WCB will do if workers are injured.

Senior nurses were "dropping like flies" all over the community around this time. I understand this has resulted in a "toxic workplace" designation for our hospital and connected workplaces.

Word from those still on the inside is that things have gone from bad to worse and many are only holding on til early retirement, or a better job can be found.

What has this got to do with education?

These policies are conceived of and driven by people at the top of the academic food chain, MBAs and consultants with old boy ties, huge appetites for money, no experience in the services (or businesses or industries) they are paid to run, and the ethics of Tony Soprano.

As long as those in the lower levels of the pyramid continue to buy the myth that acceptance by the privileged class requires accepting their standards, we will continue to allow decisions about our future to be made by elitists running an enormous con job, starting with selling the concept that they could run even a lemonade stand much less our health care system!

One of the many professionals who made money from this nurse's troubles was a shrink at least 20 years her junior, who informed her she no longer had an appropriate personality for health care - because she in fact actually cared! I am not making this up - more proof that things have gone beyond outrage to absurdity!

Laws are irrelevant?

I guess we have a very different view of what constitutes "unjust laws" and when its morally right for people to disobey them.
To me, when your basic human rights are threatened by government - as we see in the middle east - then anyone has a right to fight back. We are seeing people willing to die to fight for those rights that we take for granted.
I can hardly put a BCTF labour disagreement in that same category. I didn't agree with the NDP stripping away employees rights to a secret ballot in union certifications (how undemocratic can you get?) but the NDP wrote the law so I had to live with it.
If you don't like a law the only recourse is to elect a government that will agree with you to change a law. That is democracy.
I can see we are just going to go on butting heads here and go round in circles which goes nowhere so...another time.

Cheers

Geez?

And I thought all you free enterprise guys were so convinced about the sanctity of contracts!

Can't have it both ways happy.

You either believe in free collective bargaining or you don't.

I do.

happy

What is more basic than the right to say "no, I will not do that" to government?

"If you don't like a law the only recourse is to elect a government that will agree with you to change a law. That is democracy."

Which ignores the fact that that stance allows the majority to strip away the rights of the minority. The minority can't change the government and the majority is happy because its not its' ox that is being gored. Anyway, your view of democracy needs a refresher.

From Wikipedia's definition of democracy :

There are several varieties of democracy, some of which provide better representation and more freedoms for their citizens than others. However, if any democracy is not carefully legislated – through the use of balances – to avoid an uneven distribution of political power, such as the separation of powers, then a branch of the system of rule could accumulate power, thus become undemocratic.

The "majority rule" is often described as a characteristic feature of democracy, but without governmental or constitutional protections of individual liberties, it is possible for a minority of individuals to be oppressed by the "tyranny of the majority".

canary

I agree with you that there is no reason you should have to wade through my many posts. In the past I've supported a separate discussion area where ongoing arguments could quickly move out of a particular discussion thread so as not to fill the thread with "static".

We don't have that so although its not ideal the best I can offer is that when you see my name you skip my posts and avoid the distraction.

"teachers, who have fairly minimal education"-say what?

ASKBiblitz.com

You've got to be kidding. ..."especially teachers, who have fairly minimal education, after all."

Do you have any idea how many teachers, librarians, councillors, vision, auditory and special needs specialists, etc. have masters degrees, plus a fair number who have doctorates? Overall, they have much more education than many of the politicians who make decisions over their fates.

Do you have any idea how many educators, even after acquiring those degrees, put in, not just professional development time, but much of their own personal time, to improve their own pedagogy and understanding of the myriad issues around providing a good learning environment for their students?

..."how do you get rid of the legion of sub-performers"

This is Tea Party rhetoric that really doesn't deserve
a response if it weren't so insulting.

There are procedures in place aside from the College of Teachers' decreditation of members for major infractions.

In most districts, where teachers are identified as problematic to a good learning environment by more than one or two ranting individuals, and especially where those teachers are not supported by other parents and students, the admin. and staff rep. (union) get together and raise the issue with that teacher. Where possible, they offer support service to rectify the issue. If little changes after one and certainly two reviews, pressure is put on that teacher to leave. This weeding out system works quite well, although it may have some glitches.

It wasn't like that back when we went to school, but modern accountability changed that.

"Not enough math, grammar, homework, too much math, grammar, homework. The teacher doesn't help me enough, picks on me, ignores me. I'm too embarrassed to ask questions in class and I won't stay after school to get help". Educators have heard it all. In some cases these objections are justified, but in just as many they are excuses.

Did you ever wonder why up to 50% of new teachers leave the profession within 5 years? Could it be partly the disrespect that some students and parents heap on them?

carrying a torch not flying a flag

Good...60 comments! Not really 60 people but nevertheless good discussion.
Didn't mean to cut anyone's "debate" off at the knees, so to speak but I was one of those teachers who went on strike and would do it again (parents going by, waved, honked...brought us coffee/timbits and encouraged us to stand up for the learning environment for their kids- teacher reps were gradually put at a so called round table and there are lots of things to say about that business but that's water gone by) but honestly I also walked in protest, years ago to save prime farmland. Such is freedom of expression and moral right.

But I do agree with Lynn from 21 hours ago. Well spoken, Lynn. This is not the time for a faint of heart commission and flying a"commission" flag to see if there's enough groundswell support.
A well researched and well documented and well put forward PLAN needs to be put in place, within this year.Be brave! Go for it! Design something that isn't slash and burn that is so often the case from the opposite camp. NOW.
Quit wasting time.We should fashion our own kind of olympic education excellence to serve the needs of a generation that will have to outsmart global warming.I could carry a torch for that!

If public unions can have it both ways so can I West

They have a MONOPOLY where the Public has nowhere to turn when the union withdraws its services. Pay up or EVERYBODY suffers is the public union mentality. When a private sector union walks out the stakes ar far higher. There is a risk the company could be damaged and jobs at stake that both sides have to balance.
When government workers walk they KNOW there is no risk for them whatsoever because there is no where else thier "customers" can go. Monopoly.

I don't believe in collective bargaining by blackmail. In fact I downright resent it and it would appear more BC'rs agree with me than you or the NDP should win more elections

Re Lynn's comments

The "Socialization" occurring through the education system the past 50 years has produced the present acquiescent, uninformed and self obsessed population which makes possible all the abuses cited,It also maintains in position the smug elites who are looting the remnants of our social services for their own benefit - most of them armed with the degrees and paper qualifications which give them the keys to the store.

Higher education is not seen so much as a way to a better society for all but as a ticket to high incomes for the few who can afford the cost and have the smarts to succeed (or the lack of ethics to cheat, as 57% of business program students in the US have admitted to according to one survey.)

Extreme and dysfunctional individualism is at the root of all this, as the paradigm of modern bourgeois society is demonstrating its fundamental flaw. Even those claiming to be seeking solutions are all too likely to get bogged down in greed, ego, and power seeking.

happy

You're dodging the question.

You either agree with the sanctity of freely-bargained agreements and contracts or you don't.

I guess you don't.

Which is interesting - but not surprising.

happy

Monopoly? Guess you've never heard of private schools and private clinics.

"and it would appear more BC'rs agree with me than you or the NDP should win more elections"

I think you meant to say "would". If so, its obvious you want to be a dictator and tell the rest of us how we have to live. You can pass laws against being in a union, about being allowed to strike, you can even put people in jail without a trial. Keep fighting the good fight happy, I'm sure god is on your side.

NO!

What we need is a complete review of what our taxes are paying for these days. It seems that no matter what public sector one looks at funding is an issue.

Yet Public service taxes, fees, surcharges are increasing at a rate that is just not sustainable. Where is all the money going?

I strongly believe that we MUST get back to basics then 'reboot'. We have all sorts of boards, agencies and commissions, too many levels of government, too much dupication.

We must re-focus and re-define what are universal programs that must be supported and then determine how such are funded. We must establish a whole new compensation package for the Public Service and the various agencies and justify same; right now there is way too much variation and questionable positions that provide little value added.

Governments have taken way too much 'nanny state' approach to things while at the same time waste money on nice to haves as opposed to providing basic services. Time to reboot.

sdgreen

I'm with you, let's get rid of police and the armed forces first.

Then we remove business subsidies and no longer allow corporations to be citizens. If you want to run a business, fine, its yours, you take full responsibility for everything it does.

No tax breaks, no business write offs of anything. If you think you need Canucks' season's tickets, good for you, pay for them out of your own pocket.

Cancel all trade deals. Foreign products and foreign workers aren't allowed unless we all agree on it.

Sound good? Or do you want your "nanny state" back?

Your not surprising either West

The courts found Gordo guilty of breaking the sanctity of the HEU contract.
That same court found the BCTF guilty in thier illegal strike.

So...you either respect the rule of law or you don't.
I guess you don't.

As for dodging questions.....no ones had the courage to answer my original one that started this. If things are in such crisis in the educational system...then explain why BC has the lowest drop out rate in the country please. Makes no sense to me but I don't pretend to know everything.
You know what I mean?

happy

Back in post 17 I said we should be giving credit to the teachers (BCTF) for the low dropout rate and you agreed in your next post.

Irrelevant

The Campbell government doesn't believe in free collective bargaing OR the sanctity of contracts - that's the point - and you appear to agree with them.

Which says a lot.

Everything the Nazis did under Hitler was legal too.

No I didn't

I gave credit to teachers. I specifically said NOT the BCTF. Please reread.
But teachers have to work within a system. It appears the systems working.
Wheres the crisis?

As for the 'crisis' in the education system

It isn't me who crying about wanting to abolish school boards and administer the whole shebang from an office in Victoria (other than private schools of course) - I just want tax dollars to go where they belong - into public services and not into private independent school boards.

How about you?

As for our results here in BC - guess maybe all those members of the BCTF aren't useless slugs after all.

I'll await abject apologies from everyone on this site who thinks they are.

happy

Last time I checked the BCTF were the teachers. Perhaps you live in some other dimension where BC's teachers belong to a different union?

But if you simply can't give the teacher's union credit for anything because of ideology that's up to you.

No commenter here said there was a crisis, you're the one that brought it up.