Rarely does Public Opinion matter to Government

For a better world ~ "Many BC'ers want a Public Inquiry, regardless of the opinions of the naysayers. They also want action taken so the Liberals cannot shed any more critical documents now this fiasco of trial has collapsed."

Funny, neither the nation nor this province have cared about what the public wants legally since the moment our Constitution was entrenched:

"Not three decades ago, P.E. Trudeau couldn’t bother recognizing the public by offering a referendum vote on the Constitution of Canada. The public’s existence didn’t even warrant so much as a nod in our direction before his gang decided to entrench these holy rules of governance on us all. From that moment forward, this preeminent law would be used to rule over us in perpetuity. Is this the Canadian Social Contract? Are we still believing the government cares about us, the people??"

Politics/politicians plays the public mind like a fiddle. The Fiddlers know manipulating public opinion, especially by keeping it within certain boundaries, will guarantee the paradigm lives on. The public is steered away from considering what government is, or what its vote ultimately supports.

We are told as accepted cultural truths that we have democracy, and it is the best system ever designed. While the latter may well be true, the former is just not true. State propaganda and the corporate media do not want such deviant thoughts about government's role in its self-purported democracy, and our cultural censorship of discussing this ruse is strong.

Politics is a choice between the perceived 'lesser of two or more evils'. The notion of political leadership for the people's betterment at large is absurd; all you get are promises, routinely broken, of how one party is going to hurt you less than another.

I should clarify...

the politicians and parties and government care about public opinion on matters they want to deal with in secret or before elections. In the first regard, public opinion will kill many actions so government simply ensures the public does not get wind of it in a timely fashion.

I don't buy these two acted without direction from senior govt

Is anyone else buying these two guys were rogue operators? Of what possible value to them personally could this deal have been?

Serving two years less a day on probation doesn't exactly mesh with the judge's opinion on the serious gravity of the offense.

I smell a rat that will go unprosecuted because he's the Premier.

Yes Samuidave - Democracy is an Illusion

". . neither the nation nor this province have cared about what the public wants legally", BUT even before the Constitution was entrenched. The British elite, for a long time, used the Monarchy as a distraction as they fleeced the electorate. In North America, besides personal economic challenges, the elite use Infotainment (Hollywood, sports, pretend news, etc.)to distract the populous from their nefarious behavior.

Gidget

You're just a mendacious troll. Go infest some neo-con snake den, would you.

No Smoking Gun.

Obviously, the defense told their clients that the ex-finance minister was indeed going to be in court tomorrow. Instead of what has been suggested by some as the proof of the defendant's innocence, this "under-oath" testimony was clearly not going to help the defense and possibly not what the defendants wanted, so they confessed and took a criminal conviction and a substantial fine. They gave "a full and complete acceptance of responsibility".

No evidence incriminating others and absolving the three accused from a guilty conviction was anticipated, either from the ex-minister or anyone else. They may have also learned that the prosecution had substantial evidence and that they could no longer hope that it wouldn't be found.

At the start of the case they were probably able to convince their employer that they were innocent and, quite rightly, their employer stood by them agreeing to cover their legal costs. It will be interesting to see if this agreement was contingent on their innocence.

Could it be that the AG and.............................

.............BC Liberal party subverting the course of justice by bribing Messrs Basi and Virk to plead guilty and have the province pay their estimated $3 million to $5 million court costs?

Should not the BC Supreme Court investigate that the AG and the BC Liberal Party are tampering with the law?

It seems the BC Liberal party and the Premier has bought the silence of Basi & Virk by paying their legal fees, is this not illegal?

Has BC evolved into a corrupt state where the government can cripple the true course of justice by imposing court onerous costs on the innocent?

Has the judiciary become as corrupt as the present government in Victoria has become?

What "F"ing point is the rule of law in BC, it it has become the Rule of Campbell?

In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

silence is golden

After seven years of being under public scrutiny and living in what must have been extremely stressful circumstances; and after the court case finally starts to get legs and the end is probably just a few months down the road; and suddenly the urge to spend time with family becomes too much to bear?

The MSM may peddle that one, but even they know it’s not the truth.

the smoking gun

What next there never was a train and Basi and Virk made it all up because they had to blame someone so it seemed like a good idea to blame the premier?
The whole thing is a smoking gun as it took years to get to trial and then the case all but disappears just when it was getting good...

Does public opinion matter?

You bet it does so much so the public opinion polls are used a great deal by the very governments who ignore their requests. The Liberals couldn't have the BC rail continue on and the HST recall at the same time and still stay in office. The public out cry would have been so strong and it was just about to get interesting.
And please those of you are hear to talk about Campbell being on the up and up are talking to the wrong crowd.
Where do you think the 9% hang out that approve of Campbell in the polls and still loosing ground.

There is no evidence that this mishap went any further.

There is absolutely no evidence that this mishap went any higher than it did.

Basi and Virk were out for themselves, and have pled guilty, and will now serve the punishment for their misadventures.

Do you not know how divided the NDP is under their lackluster leader?

What about the legacy of Glen Clark and the fast ferries scandal? What about the court case against him, and all of the sleaziness surounding Moe Sihota?

What about Jack Layton and the federal NDP wanting to climb into a coalition with the seperatist Bloc Quebecois?

No, the scandal isn't about the BC Rail situation; the real scandal is how despirate a crippled NDP is trying to use this issue for strictly partisan purposes.

Understand this: THERE WILL BE NO PUBLIC INQUIRY, AS THAT IS A WASTE OF TIME, RESOURCES AND MONEY. A public inquiry will just be a tool of political opportunists.

The BC NDP has proven, time and again, how incompetent they are, and how undeserving they are to carry the sacred mantle of governing British Columbia, which is truly the Best Place on Earth.

BTW, look at the horrorfying disaster that Mayor Gregor Robertson and his so-called Vancouver Vision has become. The people of BC do not want that now, or in 2013.

REAL EVIDENCE DISSAPEARS!

All of those boxes of files that the RCMP hauled out of the legislature buildings and the information they contained are now gone. Any evidence that may have been forced into the open, during the trial is now sequestered in the RCMP lockup, never to be found again, even under the freedom of information act.

This all happens while the Liberals are negotiating a behind closed doors, a twenty year deal to keep the RCMP (cowboys) in position, as our Provincial Police Force.

I personally, do not like the idea of being policed on the street level by Ottawa and an organization that cannot be held responsible by we the people of this province.

Those cases of wrongdoing by the cowboys which we hear about are only the tip of the iceberg.

The RCMP had collected enough real evidence to actually convict Brian Mulroney in the "air bus scandal" That evidence was never brought forward because of a political and legal maneuver. That evidence is now buried so the RCMP will not have to be embarrassed For not doing their real "job".

Every crook has a mother, a family, maybe even children. Dose that stop them? These "admitted" white collar crooks have taken or enabled to be taken the food from our children's bellies. They steal the wealth, while our Province has the highest rate of child poverty in the country. Do we all really hope that these criminals enjoy their family, children and privileged life instead of going to prison where they belong?

Huh?

"The guilty plea proves, beyond a reasonable doubt, that Premier Campbell and the BC Liberal Party are innocent".

As GW stated, it means absolutely nothing of the sort. In fact, it probably means the opposite. If you actually believe that, you are either brainwashed or might be interested in some waterfront property in New Orleans I have for sale.

"There is absolutely no evidence that this mishap went any higher than it did".

That statement doesn't even begin to make sense. I think you meant to say that no evidence will be forthcoming [UNPROVEN ALLEGATION REMOVED. -MODERATOR.]. If that's not what you meant, how about that property in New Orleans? Interested?

Just heard public picking up legal tab

Which is sure to cause backlash since it is in the millions of dollars probably what the guilty plea is more about and putting an end to the 7 year stretch as there are no sure things unless you are Campbell, Brown and a CN Executive looking for a way out
Since when does the public pick up the tab for a guilty plea for those who said acting on orders from Liberal leader so public still helps out. It has been the never ending trail that never seems to get to trail and then it ends before it ever got started. It is unfortunate as Campbell takes himself down for the count does he also have to make a joke of judicial system anymore than it already is. Basi and Virk Get out of jail free card and all their legal expenses paid for which are in the million and are being picked up by public. When does justice kick in?

Disgusting

How can this be the government of BC? I feel sickened by this. And like a fool for actually believing that the truth would come out at the trial.
There MUST be a public inquiry. As a BC taxpayer, I want to know what really happened to MY railway, and now, I really want to know what's happening to my money besides paying guilty public servants legal fees....

Gidget is so blatant liberal

Gidget is so blatant liberal that even if Campbell kill a person, he would say That he did it in self defense. Also Mr. Campbell is a convicted drunk driver. Of course not,according to Gidget Mr Campbell was just an unlucky guy.
Give me a break. The whole deal is fishy and the more we read about it, the more it stinks.BC Rail was a stinker from day one and it only will get worse because questions will keep coming. People had enough of those crooks!

I agree with Driftwood...

But, instead of picking on nondescript Barisoff, let's pick on Campbell himself. There is nothing like having a non-leader leave his office like a shorn sheep.

It would have been cheaper

Since there is no justice it would have been cheaper for the public and the RCMP to leave well enough alone and perhaps RCMP wouldn't find themselfs so poorly trained with little or no money in the budget for keeping on top of things going down.
Do the RCMP feel justice has been served? It also took millions and millions of dollars delaying the case for all those years not to forget to mention the money spent by the police to help bring the case to trial and the trial costs of delaying the trial for another year. Apparently something about respecting the courts but what about the courts show a little respect for the laws in place instead of continuing on with the facade? Would there have been a deal if the lawyers didn't get paid and Basi and Virk get to walk or they stay and talk about it all day long and still pay the price for their part anyway?

Time for a public inquiry

It is time for an open public inquiry into the whole judicial system in Canada, not just in BC. There is too much connections between the govt and the judicial system. Look at the Mulroney inquiry. It was cut off just after we heard that he accepted hundreds of thousands of dollars for "favours." And the person who ended the inquiry is now our Governor-General.
We have the raid on Glen Clark's home where the TV reporter was just there by coincidence. That was a set-up if there ever was one.
And now this trial has ended. We need to find out the truth about what happened. We must have an inquiry that is headed by a non-biased trust-worthy person.

Hey Gidget ...

Learn some basics of logic (and spelling) before you spew ill-conceived ideas.
To believe that Basi and Virk acted alone is the epitome of naivety.
Most politicians, NDP, Liberal, Conservative, even the Greens if given the chance, are littered with dishonest players.
Anyone who believes a politician and their lackeys deserves what they get.
The question now is, what will the voters do.

Conspiracy Theorists

~$20 million in legal fees paid for by the government/taxpayer because a benefit was received, among other things, in the form of attending a Denver Broncos football game, paid for by Omnitrax, an unsuccessful BC Rail bidder?

The conspiracy theorists are gonna have a field day with this one!

If Carole James

If Carole James wishes to do the right thing the first promise she should make to the people of BC TODAY is to promise to hold a full public inquiry into all aspects of the 'sale' of BC Rail INCLUDING the circumstances surrounding the Basi Virk trial and its bizarre conclusion if she becomes Premier in 2013 or sooner.

It must be a complete and transparent inquiry with full judicial powers to compel testimony and charge non-compliers with contempt of court.

What price democracy?

I guess there is a price on democracy, truth and freedom. We saw it yesterday in courtroom 54. In an attempt to circumvent justice, one of the most important trials in BC history is cut short. Reasons are many but none can be justified. This is just more evidence that our court system and government needs to be overhauled. What we saw yesterday was a perversion of justice that can only be matched in Latin America banana republic government days.

If there is any doubt that there is a class war being waged here the evidence is laying on the floor of courtromm 54. It's time now to reconsider who we want to govern and how. Now we must re-organise our government top to bottom. Is there a leader out there that can do it? I haven't seen evidence of that yet. I'm not yet ready to give up though.

Public Inquiry

Oh sure, Carole James is going to promise a public inquiry. This will ensure that many more taxpayer millions are spent to find out what was found out yesterday. It should only take a few years and the result will be that a couple of guys tried to pocket a few thousand bucks from a company that was ultimately the unsuccessful bidder for BC Rail. Sounds like a winner.

Basi and Virk have had their 15 minutes. There won't even be a book. The public will yawn big time.

Who was charged

Who or what developer was was charged for the $50,000.00 bribe paid to Dave Basi for the land deal? Who was the lobbyist that paid the $25,695.00 bribe for the information and were they charged? More questions than answers in this plea scam. Looks like bribes can be paid with impunity and then the briber can get reimbursed by the one bribed if and when they get caught.

7 year trial ends abruptly

What an expensive joke on the taxpayer!

G & L Rail

Lara must be thrilled
Saved by her BilderBurglar
Still untarnished as she collects her pay

We need to arrange all the

We need to arrange all the Liberal lies and misdeeds of the past ten years and we will be able to build a mountain chain as high and long as the Rocky Mountains. Just take a look at the Basi-Verk case which the press brushes off with a feather duster. Why does our local Media not ask "why BC Rail paid Patrick Kinsella, head of the Liberal 2001 election campaign, more than $300,000 in consulting fees during the time the railway’s fate was being determined.”

Maybe I am totally wrong about the court system in some of my comments. Yes the Judges are there as patronage appointments but I gave them too much credibility. You got to love the penalty: house arrest "except going to work and to children’s (family??) events" , and pay back the amount taken in bribes. However, the judge stated that there is an additional penalty not applied by the judicial court but by the court of public opinion – the shame! What a farce ---these people have no shame.

This shows that if you intend to be a criminal, try white collar crime – the penalties are better. What would you be willing to live with: two – five years in a cell or be sort of confined to your home with friends and family AND shame? Do poor people who are convicted of a crime ever get to stay out of jail and instead get sent home to cope with shame?

Soooo NOW WHAT ???

The taxpayer is on the hook for the whole damn case, prosecution and defense. ON TOP OF THAT, the "taxpayer" does NOT get to hear sworn testimony from those in the "Gordo Gang" inner circle, regarding the POTENTIAL payoffs, corruption, fixing and God knows what else that has been uncovered by investigators.
AND NOW the NDP is calling/demanding a PUBLIC INQUIRY (AT THE COST OF TAXPAYERS !!!! AGAIN !!). Ohhh sure!
Here's my idea: The NDP and Ms. James, should do their homework. Use their own resources and contact investigators and compile the information that they can acquire. THEN, make it public.
Beats hell out of huffing and puffing and wanting to spend MORE taxpayers dollars.

A corrupt political and legal system

This case reveals more than just a corrupt political system in B.C. It also shows how the legal system (don't call it a justice system) has contributed to that corruption. It is disgusting and discouraging. If we throw the bastards out, we'll just get more of the same, so why should anyone bother to vote anymore? Perhaps one way to force change is if everyone purposely spoiled their ballots in the next election. It would be an interesting experiment to see what would happen if no one got elected (he said, somewhat sarcastically).

Look To France

They're into their sixth day of protest against Sarkozy's planned pension reforms. There's no doubt about how they feel. They've changed the course of history in the past and believe they can do it again.
If we really are serious about the pathetic crop of people (both Liberal and NDP) who call themselves politicians, we should get off our butts and take to the streets and forget about being polite.
Canadians (excluding Tyee readers) are far too complacent, more concerned with gadgets, hockey and Dancing With the Whoevers.

@GWest, cboo44

The NDP 2009 platform included a commitment to a full inquiry into the BC Rail sell-off. Search the document for "BC Rail".

Why is an inquiry necessary? The past seven years have been all about the defence trying to pull evidence out of a government that has spent millions to keep the evidence locked down. Only with a full public inquiry with strong authority to compell witnesses and evidence can we hope to pry the lid off.

The Judiciary's Role in All This

I was at the courthouse yesterday when the media convoy arrived.

I've been pursuing my own case while this one has been crawling along and I've not, till now, given much credence to the notion that it was B.C.'s trial of the century. However, I will say that important questions are now being raised as a result of the apparent short-circuiting of due process.

What I want to add though is that not enough has yet been said about the role of the judiciary, which is not just to listen and take direction from the prosecuting and defense counsel. Has the judiciary acquitted itself well in this case?

Given the call for a public inquiry, which the government will ignore (at least until we have a new government) I would like to offer the public a view of my own call for a full public inquiry into the conduct of B.C.'s Supreme Court and Court of Appeal judges, which I submitted to the Canadian Judicial Council last week:

http://www.uncharted.ca/images/users/ssigurdur/20101012_budgell_complaint_to_cjc.pdf

If the CJC decides to act in the public interest, no one in B.C. will be able to prevent an inquiry into this matter from proceeding.

The Premier is clear: NO PUBLIC INQUIRY!

The case is over and done with.

The guilty parties have taken responsibility.

It's time to move on.

The NDP is the most corrupt institution in this province, by its misleading the people with its anti-HST and pro-Moe Sihota rhetoric.

The Premier Has No Constituency

Unless you call 9 percent a majority. What he says is meaningless. He may be the premier in name but in the carrying of that job's duties, he's derelict.
"Time to move on." That's an overused, meaningless phrase like "Have a good day."
Move on to what? To where? Another Liberal scandal perhaps?

clear as mud

Perfect name Gidget.On the day the first Liberal insider is to testify the sweetheart deal of all time pops up and saves his thieving ass.Talk about the most corrupt institution.Every election has been followed by a quick betrayal.One has already been tossed out in court.There was once a wonderful legacy here for our kids.Campbell sold most of it off to gain political favors for someone.It certainly isn't helping the people of B.C.And now we have to wait for the run of the river deals to blow up in our collective faces.It sounds like these guys made a killing,judging by the fines.I guess we can expect an audit and a healthy return on those legal fees.They did plead guilty.

Liberal coverup

This smells like a Gordon Campbell/Liberal cover up and of course there isn't going too be an inquiry because someone probably paid these guys off too take the fall. But the ones that are really getting the shaft are us the TAXPAYERS OF BRITISH COLUMBA. Like Gordon Campbell giving a donation of $100,000 too that childrens fund he was trying too make himself look good but it didn't come out of his pocket and I have nothing against donating too a charity but give credit where credit is due not to Gordon Campbell but too the people of British Columbia.

Yawn!!! realisticman

I don't think so.

The public is going to be livid on this score and Campbell's lame attempt this morning to put it all on two Canadians of East Indian extraction isn't going to be popular either. These people ARE his people – as long as they were making phony phone calls to online shows to feather Campbell’s nest and drill ‘new assholes’ for his opponents they were fine upstanding POLITICAL appointees….Disavowing the CEO’s connection(s) to this case and these people – not to mention the lies and the sell off of vital public assets to his corporate friends in a soiled transaction – is not going to be such an easy sell.

In fact, by next week, 9% approval for the CEO is going to look good.

P Markunas: I agree, but Carole James has to speak out, speak out loudly, and make a clear and unequivocal commitment for a full and open public inquiry and she needs to do it NOW - irrespective of the platform in the last election.

Ramona777

I don't care if the Premier has 0% popularity.

He is, legally, the Premier.

What he says/does/wants is the law of the land.

In May 2009, the NDP was soundly defeated....DEFEATED!

You can't continue to fight an election...It's time to move on and govern.

BTW, the NDP still has Carole James, Moe Sihota, and the legacies of Dave Stupich, Fast Ferries and Glen Clark to contend with.

The NDP has a totally divided caucus.

At least the BC Liberal caucus is totally united behind the fine leadership of Premier Campbell.

Mark my words: After the TV address on October 27th, things will turn around for Premier Campbell and the BC Liberals.

The NDP has the Carole James facto to contend with. Not to mention Glen Clark, Dave Stupich, Fast Ferries, Mike Harcourt, Moe Sihota, Dave Barrett....

"What he says/does/wants is

"What he says/does/wants is the law of the land."

You need to take some night classes. That isn't how our system works.

Glen Clark was innocent by the way, Harcourt wasn't guilty of anything and the Liberals have several boondoggles bigger than the Fast Ferries. Convention Centre, run-of-river, Canada Line, BC Rail, Sea to Sky... its a long list but then its a very big debt.

depressed...sigh

am i the only one that is really starting to feel very, very depressed about what is going on in our province?
it just keeps happening.
after 40 plus years of voting, working on campaigns, paying taxes and basically following the rules...it is all just starting to get me down.
the thieves running the province just keep getting away with it. it does not seem to matter what the hell they do, somehow... they dodge all bullets.
after seeing the movie, THE TOWN, i came out of the theatre thinking that crime does pay. and after 60 plus years of living in bc, it seems that that is true. kind of makes you wonder why the general public is so law-abiding when the leaders are getting away with murder. it is depressing.

Billy Justice in Banana Canada!

It's clear to us now that B.C. does not have the expertise or the will, it seems, to prosecute fraud/political influence esp when those at the highest level are implicated. Nor has the NDP effectively challenged the province to do so - no doubt b/c they suffer from the same malaise.

The question now is whether such derring-do will attract intervention by the federal Justice Dept. as it certainly should.

It's still a criminal matter, what these guys did, right? ... Right?

@Bill Tieleman

You should have David change the headline - I happened to have a rare opportunity to listen to open-mouth radio this morning and the suggestion that it's only the New Democrats who are calling for a public inquiry is clearly incorrect.

I even heard Michael Smyth make the suggestion that Campbell’s government has bought themselves a 'guilty' verdict with this plea-bargain payoff.

Can you imagine the hue and cry which would have ensued if Glen Clark had been found guilty and ANYONE suggested that the province should pay the freight for his defence?

The Fix was in.

Gordon Campbell picked this Judge for a reason, as her past has shown, She has a Certain Moral Flexibility.

How can someone be "acting

How can someone be "acting on their own" when taking a bribe?

When someone is bribed, someone else must do the bribing. It is a mutual conspiracy by definition.

Who then did the bribing? Why don't we know? Who if anyone has been charged with making the bribe?

If no one, does this not mean that in our province you may bribe someone in the Premier's office with impunity?

How can anyone claim with a straight face that our current government is not corrupt?

Ed Seedhouse

The people doing the bribing, like former Province columnist Brian Kierans, made a deal with the government that they would testify against the accused in return for not being prosecuted themselves.

The whole thing stinks.

Sure it all stinks. I

Sure it all stinks. I wouldn't be surprised if this is one more example of Campbell cleaning the slate before he departs. He is acting as the scapegoat, bearing the sins of his people with him as he goes to the desert -- sorry, dessert of board memberships, consultancies and, who knows, a plum federal appointment.

Gordo Claims that He & the Liberal Party......

....were vindicated TWICE by the voters at the polls. He didn't mention however, that there was virtually NO information that said voters could use to make their choices - because (are you ready for this?) "the matter is before the courts"!

Basi-Virk

I despair for this Province.
I truly believe that we are living in the most corrupt times ever.
I don't even know where to begin.
This trial is aborted just as key witnesses are to attend.
On dark days i wonder if the opposition party even wants this to come to a proper conclusion.
Everybody has their hands in someone pockets.
Primarily the taxpayers.

Was the decision to pay the defense's costs legal?

Not under BC law.

http://therealstory.ca/2010-10-18/bc-rail/bc-libs-pay-millions-to-quash-bc-rail-trial

Precedent setting

Do I understand this correctly? David Basi was basically fined what he was paid in bribes?
Is this really to be considered punishment for this kind of criminal activity?
It seems to me that this is not much of a deterrent for future Liberal criminal acts.
I hang my head in shame and dismay... this is not justice.
There needs to be a full public inquiry, as much as I hate to throw good money after bad, this whole affair reeks of fraud and corruption.
We the public, who are bankrolling this sordid mess, need to know, deserve to know, all the details and just how far the rot has gone.
A dark day indeed for B.C taxpayers.

Going around and around and around...

Yes, of course. I can hear Carole James saying it now.

'The first business of my government will be to hold a Public Inquiry into the Basi/Virk BC Rail case. We will spend whatever it takes of hard-earned taxpayer dollars from the working women and the working men of British Columbia and, yes, I do understand that this will cost the people of this province many, many millions of dollars, and it will take many, many years. And I say this to the good people of British Columbia, we will again go through all the many, many thousands of documents, e-mails and evidence that this trial has already looked over and we will keep looking and the Inquiry will keep doing its job for as many years as it takes even if does cost many, many millions of dollars. The people of British Columbia need to know just how many Denver Broncos tickets were actually handed over and who got these tickets - and we don't. The good people of British Columbia also need to know if all this was really done for just thirty grand. Yes, it sounds like chump-change ladies and gentlemen but we will spend millions to find out because we are deeply peeved that this balloon popped in such a wimpy way and yet so quickly'.

What do you figure, 10 years and $20 million? (The case took eight years.) Sounds like a great plan.

r'man

There were only two witnesses, so you don't know what happened. A public inquiry will find out what the Liberal government didn't want to come out in court.

And if you're so worried about the cost why didn't you tell the guy you voted for not to give two criminals $6 million.

R/M old man....

And if you're so worried about the cost why didn't you tell the guy you voted for not to give two criminals $6 million?

After all, Gordon himself said he and his party were vindicated by the voters twice. It may therefore be assumed that you supported the $6M cost involved. To be fair, you should overwhelmingly support ANY amount CJ chooses to spend getting to the truth - as the $6M Gordo spent did not.

The People Rest...

...and that snoring sound you hear will be the electorate going back to sleep. We'll have a bad dream about watching Team B implode in a protracted leadership bloodletting then we'll wake up in time to see Team A win the next election with their new leader. Plus ca change...

Snowcap

And, as a member of Team A, I am very happy with all of the disunity in Team B.

Team B is very notorious for all of its sycophants and lunatics.

Team B is supported by the dubious characters, especially as regards their Party President.

A selection of crimes...

...in want of an explanation, charges and convictions. From this morning's Vancouver Scum.

"Canadian Pacific Railway, in a letter to the premier's office, flatly accused the government of giving rival CN Rail "preferred access" to the BC Rail list of shippers and thereby the inside track."

"CN boss Harrison Hunter: ...$750 million, to buy the business, a further $250 million for BC Rail's tax credits, an indemnity that is still carried on the provincial government's books. So from the outset, the deal was tainted by suspicions that the Liberals had preferred CN all along becuase of a flashy $1 billion price tag that was not precisely as advertised."

"The RCMP seized from Pilothouse's office a number of documents that were improperly disclosed." Brian Kieran and "Spiderman" Bornmann are the only angels in this mess? I think not.

"Was Collins ever under criminal investigation? What did the former finance minister know about the payoffs made to Dave Basi in the BC Rail sale?"

"Was favouritism shown to CN Rail because its chair, David McLean, was a political ally and former fundraiser for Premier Gordon Campbell?"

"When the BC Legislature was raided in 2003, a RCMP spokesman made two things clear: "First the Mounties were not looking for any politicians, and second, they were hot on the trail of organized crime, which was reaching into every corner of BC." Supposedly the Mounties were wrong twice...

Anyone who wouldn't want answers to these and other questions is a liar, dissembler, diddler, crook and vapidly ignorant. Which puts Cool Hound and Giggles into a completely unique category.

Besides, any decent justice could have these answers for us in about four weeks. Just give him or her the power of subpeoena and access to the documents before they're shredded. It would cost only half of what the prosecution of Clark's deck cost, and would be so much, much more enlightening.

Hawkeyes

"Saved by her BilderBurglar"

Still laughing - nice one!

Gordon Campbell, the convicted drunk driver who couldn't run a popsicle stand without stealing it to give away to his friends.

The fascist right is going to take decades to live this disgrace down....

Any lawyers out there?

Is there any case law with respect to the crown offering financial benefits as part of a plea settlement?

zalm

Oh I do support that zalm. I do. I think it's very important for Carole James to campaign in every retirement home, every health-care facility, every educational institution, every town and community and every media event, etc., and she should clearly and categorically promise that the first order of business for her government will be to give the best lawyers of British Columbia a blank cheque from the working women and men of this province, and that these lawyers can spend as much time as they like looking over all the documents that may or even may not be relevant in this case. In fact, why doesn't she also promise a leather-bound copy of the resulting report be sent to every household across the country - at taxpayer expense, of course. Maybe we should have a movie too. A nice shiny DVD included with the book.

r'man

Excellent, glad you're on board. I'm sure it'll cost much less than the tens of millions some media people have suggested it cost the Campbell government.

Strange isn't it how Campbell insisted Basi and Virk can't even discuss the case? Why would that be since they've admitted their guilt? Does Campbell feel sorry for them and is embarrassed at their public shame? I find that hard to believe, I think Campbell simply doesn't want anyone to hear what they know.

A public inquiry would find that out.

Uh, Zalm?

Your sending out conflicting messages here. On the James Risks All thread you thoroughly trash the Sun newspaper with this statement -

"The reason you're not seeing your issue in the press isn't that the NDP isn't speaking it - it's that the press - right-wing wretched toilet paper that it is - doesn't want to print it"

and then immediately turn 180 degrees by quoting all the "crimes" the libs are guilty of in this thread from....that same Sun. How do you square that circle?

happy

I've seen you post that the Tyee has its facts wrong, especially when it concerns BC Ferries or the federal Conservatives, yet you're still here.

In other words you read an online newsmagazine that you think does shoddy work.

How do you square that circle?

Thats easy frank

I'm a PAB troll, as I've ben told numerous times.

No, I wouldn't call what the Tyee prints as "shoddy"
Most non filler articles are "politiczlly motivated" shall we say to have the desired effect, make the government look bad as much as possible by printing rumours, innuendo and such.
Since you brought up BCF lets have a look there. Do you recall the three part series by MacLeod on the new German ferries?
According to those reports those boats were in such bad shape they were shaking themselves to bits, wrecking the docks, and even causing property damage on land due to their "strange exhaust" and oh yes, their wake was too "foamy"
What a joke. Yet everybody here lapped it up. At the time I pointed out they weren't even in regular scheduled service yet and crew training was incomplete but that didn't matter. They were a disaster, case closed.
So now fast forward two years and what do you see. Wheres the followup on what should be a major embarresment for el Gordo. You won't see a followup b/c they are the backbone of the fleet now, doing all the heavy lifting. The union even displays one of them as their flagsip on their home web page now. It used to be the Queen of the North...
BUT thats beside the point. I don't critisize the Tyee on a subject, then turn half circle and qoute them to back me up when making a point.
I try to be consistent at least

happy

"I don't critisize the Tyee on a subject, then turn half circle and qoute them to back me up when making a point."

But that's the beauty of it. Think Nixon going to Red China. For example, I've often said Gary Mason at the Globe is one of the two biggest Campbell supporters in BC.

Yet even he says there should be a public inquiry into Basi-Virk. So I will now quote him on that subject.

You just did the same thing, you used a BC Ferries union website to make a point about the German ferries. The reason you did that is because they're a union, which means lefties should automatically give their opinion more weight than if you had pointed us to a BC Liberal website.

You and I both do it and so do most of the commenters here. When a BC Liberal or an NDP member of the caucus says something about their own party its more newsworthy than if they say something about the other party. Its only natural.

OK Frank

But my point, and this is getting too OT so I'll just say it and then bow out...is you know very well the MSM is relentlessly discredited here as neocon propaganda that is totally biased and would never ever say a bad word about the libs for fear their corporate masters would be angered.
That type of attitude just doesn't stand up in the light of day does it, that is if you have any objectivity whatsoever.
If you wish to qoute Mason thats fine, just don't turn around tomorrow and say he's a neocon lapdog when he next comes out with an article you don't like. To be honest it comes off as being very thin skinned to me.

Back to the subject at hand, I have only one general question:
How come the defence lawyers are getting off scot free on this one? Why is no one questioning their motives and what role they had in dragging it out for years on end - and how the longer it went - the more they invoiced...6 mil and counting (I'm entitled to my conspiracy theories too)

happy

"just don't turn around tomorrow and say he's a neocon lapdog when he next comes out with an article you don't like"

Why not? You just did the same thing again. You claim the MSM is relentlessly discredited here yet I assume you still read the articles and comments and reply to them. There's nothing wrong with doing that.

There's people that ignore everything Castro says but as soon as he expressed some doubts to an interviewer it was repeated here. Misquoted as it turned out but they repeated it anyway. How is that different?

The Vancouver Sun and Bill Good et al say there's no reason for an inquiry. The Province and Mike Smythe and Gary Mason and others say there is. That doesn't mean the Vancouver Sun is always wrong nor does it mean the Province is always right. But it still means the Vancouver Sun may be wrong most of the time and I see no reason why that can't be pointed out.

Its like saying I'm not allowed to complain about officiating when the Canucks get a bad call against them if I have ever said I saw a well officiated game.

One doesn't preclude the other.

*****************

As for the subject at hand. Why did Basi and Virk get money?

Why did they have to agree not to talk as a condition for getting their money?

Why were they not punished for accepting bribes? Is that okay now to accept bribes if you're in government?

Why did the people bribing them not get punished? Is that okay now to bribe government officials?

Why is Campbell destroying all the evidence?

Frank

All your questions can be answered with two words.
Dirty politics.
Thats not an excuse, its just reality and all parties and politicians, with rare exceptions, practice it.
If you want to believe that laws were broken and a grand coverup is taking place then the entire judicial system including the judge, prosecutor, defence lawyers, defendants and the RCMP were all in on it and are hiding evidence.
Thats a little too 911 for me. If you were truly innocent like the defence contended, you would NOT settle, no matter whether it might take another year or not. A criminal record is for life. If you are proved innocent, there is no legal bill to worry about. So why would Basi/Virk accept a criminal record if they wre able to show they were innocent and only carrying out orders? Doesn't make any sense to me.
On the other hand dirty politics is rampant. But its not a crime. Glen proved that too.

Indo-Canadians

[RACIST COMMENT REMOVED. -MODERATOR.]

happy

Glen proved no such thing.

For the cases to be comparable he would have got his mortgage paid off and his friend would have got his casino.

Clark didn't get any money and buddy didn't get his casino.

CN, led by a guy that just happened to be Campbell's campaign manager, got their railway.

As for Basi and Virk, there was no guarantee they'd have their legal fees covered and their was no guarantee the case would be finished in 2 years and there was no guarantee they'd be found innocent.

After all their defence was that they weren't the only ones that were guilty so its not like they were trying to say they were innocent.

BC has become a joke

Campbell and his last few desparate followers have sunk this province to a pitiful joke.
To deny answers to the long list of questions in this scandal is unacceptable in an open democracy. We are no better than Pakistan and Afghanistan---we should be ashamed to let this happen.

Wrong example Frank.

I wasn't talking about Glen's deck. I was talking about Glen's fudge budget. The one where fraud was alledged after his balanced budget pre election promise turned quickly into a post election defict. He was eventually found innocent of criminal wrongdoing of course, but you can't deny it was dirty politics practiced soley to get elected. He didn't "lie" he just didn't tell us the whole story. Gordo too. Snakes all.

Frank

"Strange isn't it how Campbell insisted Basi and Virk can't even discuss the case? "

It's not unusual that non-disclosure agreements accompany settlements. In fact some obligation within the agreement is always there.

Anyway, who would believe anything they say?

r'man

That's not the usual procedure in cases involving government corruption. These men didn't work for a private company they worked for the public.

"Anyway, who would believe anything they say?"

Why not find out?

happy

The fudge-it-budget wasn't corruption nor was it even a criminal offence so its comparable at all to Basi-Virk. Casino-gate would be but it turned out there was no corruption. Not the case here.

As for the politics of the fudge-it-budget, Gord did the same thing several times and he never even had to go to court for it.

I think what you're saying is that there's one law for the Left and another for the Right?

@Rman said.....

"Anyway, who would believe anything they say?"

I would for one. Now that they have plead guilty, what would be their motive for lying? If you can provide a reasonable argument against my assumption, I may rethink my position

@Gidget.......
I just wanted to thank you for adding some much needed comic relief to this otherwise depressing subject. I laughed so hard at your first post I snorted water out of my nose!;o)

Non-disclosure agreements

You've got your legal precedents pretty twisted – non-disclosure agreements are VERY RARE in criminal cases - THIS IS A CRIMINAL CASE.
In fact, apart from the Carla Homulka/Paul Bernardo case (for obvious reasons) and ones involving national security and treason the criminal law operates on the principle that everything NEEDS to be hung out for public scrutiny and to inform the development of precedent.

There is an excellent example of this unfolding in Belleville at this moment where the 'evidence' against another accused who pled guilty has been paraded ad nauseum in front of the public for days.

The stench from this subversion of justice will hang about the BC Liberal corpse long after the CEO is gone...

If Campbell and his pals have nothing to hide, why did someone in their government insist upon an non-disclosure pact.

You can only pile bullshit so high before it commences to fall back on itself.

Frank

No it wasn't corruption. No it wasn't criminal,
YES, it WAS dirty politics. Quit trying to excuse it as though the NDP would never stoop so low. Thats denial. Which party was it that first instituted the PAB by the way?
No, Gordo didn't fudge the budget "several" times, he did it once, the last one which makes him equal to Glen. Show me any others where a balanced or surplus budget turned into a deficet afterwards. Please.
Your last sentence is a cheap shot.

happy

You're not comparing apples and oranges.

Until the NDP does actually stoop as low as what we have here I will continue to believe they're better. And you should have higher standards than to forgive criminal acts because you voted for him.

Gord has fudged the budget every single year of his administration. Not once has government revenue and spending matched what he said it would be.

We have added over $50 billion in new debt and contractural obligations yet BCers remain unaware of it because Campbell has claimed a surplus almost every single year.

@happy & budgets

Every budget WAC Bennett EVER produced was a fudge-it budget.

And that's not a cheap shot - it's simply a statement of fact. He always underestimated revenues and overestimated costs.

As for the current situation, if Campbell has nothing to hide and the bad guys are the two individuals (who were appointed by Order in Council) who were his political appointees, then why is there anything that might come out in a public inquiry that the CEO is afraid of?

There is no comparison between what Campbell appears to have done in this case and any budget manipulation - Campbell and his cabinet are up to their neck in water and bailing for their political lives.

Basi and Virk claim to have a clear conscience - can the CEO claim the same?

Actually, I think this proves he's an amoral sociopath (like most CEOs) so I suppose he does claim a clear conscience.

But, that's not the point here, as we all know.

You'll have to help me out here Frank

What criminal act was Gordo charged with that I'm forgiving?

happy

I see, you don't care that two men he hired and who worked closely with him were found guilty of corruption. You believe that in spite of stacking open line shows and creating fake protests on his orders that in this case they acted completely on their own and the reason Campbell is paying them to keep quiet isn't relevant.

Frank

The case is closed.

It goes no higher than Basi-Virk working together.

They pled guilty, and their legal fees are being covered.

They will serve their time, and will become blacklisted.

The Premier, wanting to save money, says that no inquiry will be held.

There is nothing to inquire about.

We should have held one as soon as the NDP was booted out of office back in 2001. Anything, and everything that they did, should have been held to the tiniest magnifying glass.

The Premier, and any and all members of the Executive Council (past and present) are innocent.

To say otherwise is defamation.

Gidget

No, it isn't.

And if the premier wanted to save money he didn't have to buy their silence.

West

You know why they don't want a public inquiry. A lot of dirty laundry and politics would get exposed.
But does that make it criminal? Not by the letter of the law it doesn't.
If Basi and Virk have a clear conscience thats great. They also own a criminal record now. For life.
Would you accept that if your conscience was clear and all it took was time to clear your name? Not on your life you wouldn't.
To reiterate: Gordo and friends are guilty of dirty politics. No question. Goes with the territory.
But guilty of a criminal act? Well, the RCMP said no and if you know something they don't....

Looks like Mason was wrong

VICTORIA/CKNW AM 980
Sean Leslie
10/20/2010

Attorney-General Mike de Jong says the two men who pleaded guilty to breach of trust charges in the BC Rail corruption case are free to talk to the media.

Mike de Jong is flatly denying a report that Dave Basi and Bobby Virk were made to sign a non-disclosure agreement.

He says "..absolutely not--there is no such provision".

Frank

Stacking phone lines and fake protests. Wow. Your right, I don't care. My "criminal act" bar is slightly higher than that.
Seeing as how we're going tit for tat then how about good old Moe advising the troops to work with the Recall group "under the table" so to speak so the public doesn't know how the NDP is involved.
Is that criminal? Not by my standards. Just business as usual in Victoria....

happy

You're ignoring the fact they pleaded guilty to taking bribes.

That may be the way things are done on the Sunshine Coast but for the rest of us we sorta frown on government doing favours for whoever has the fattest wallet.

If you want to defend corruption I'm sure you'll find plenty of like-minded souls like Gidget and r'man although there's less of you everyday according to polls.

As for Moe, what's wrong with supporters of the NDP being involved in recall campaigns? Should only Liberal supporters be allowed to recall Liberal MLAs?

happy

So they join the estimated 10%(conservatively) of Canadians with criminal records. That's not counting those who have been pardoned - and who cares to bet that Basi/Virk WILL be pardoned?

Frank

I'm ignoring nothing. Taking bribes is criminal, stacking phone lines isn't. I don't see how much clearer I can get. I don't condone dirty politics, it seems you do as you won't say squat about the NDP's record. They have lots of black marks. Lots.
So if there is nothing wrong with the NDP working on Recall why did Moe say to keep the public in the dark then?
Your normally excellent memory seems to have forgotten when the libs tried Recall in the 90's all the NDP supporters claimed they were trying to refight the previous election.
So now if the NDP gets involved they would be guilty of same.
What goes around comes around.

DRUNK DRIVING

IS A CRIMINAL ACT IN BC...the fact he hid from responsibility by getting caught in Hawaii doesn't hold much water in my book...He's a confessed criminal and there's no way that's gonna change. Just like the daughter of a certain former MLA.

@happy

Giving away public assets in a rigged deal where the other bidders don't have all the information is criminal...just because Campbell hasn't been charged with it and all the questions haven't been answered doesn't mean it didn't happen.

People with nothing to hide are open books - Campbell has lots to hide and you and I both know it.

The NDP record was on trial - and Glen Clark was acquitted - I guess you and gidgit have forgotten that.

Now, please answer me one question - why should these guys have their legal bills paid for them? You think that would happen for someone else - like, say, Willie Pickton?

This is a sweetheart deal where guys with a so-called 'clean conscience' have copped a plea for the benefit of their old boss - the guy who signed the Orders in Council and the same guy who issued all the orders.

I guess you forgot that Martyn Brown lost his memory on the witness stand - if he wasn't giving the orders - Campbell was.

r/man

That's not what the non-disclosure agreement is all about...DeJong is being disingenuous.

For him that’s not difficult.

West

"Giving away public assets in a rigged deal where the other bidders don't have all the information is criminal..."

Absolutely. Thats why the RCMP stepped in.

"just because Campbell hasn't been charged with it and all the questions haven't been answered doesn't mean it didn't happen."

nor by the same token can you claim it did

"The NDP record was on trial - and Glen Clark was acquitted - I guess you and gidgit have forgotten that."

Please show me where I said Glen was guilty of a criminal act. Maybe Gidget did, not I.

"Now, please answer me one question - why should these guys have their legal bills paid for them?"

They shouldn't and I've already answered, dirty politics to keep the dirty laundry out of sight. To repeat, thats not illegal, just sleazy.

"This is a sweetheart deal where guys with a so-called 'clean conscience' have copped a plea for the benefit of their old boss - the guy who signed the Orders in Council and the same guy who issued all the orders."

Thats just your opinion I'm afraid. That was the defence strategy too. Why didn't they present any evidence when they had the chance? The defence team is the one thats taken us all for a ride and they are the ones laughing all the way to the bank....its obvious why so many lawyers get into politics eh. It takes one sleaze to know one

thanks zalm

My pleasure!

happy

Liberal party men took bribes while in government. The NDP government didn't.

You want to keep calling Basi-Virk "dirty politics" and saying its equivalent to a fudge-it budget, it isn't and you know it, you're just being loyal to the Liberal party.

The NDP government had some black marks while in government but nothing like this. And this isn't Campbell's only issue, his government is so dirty it makes the NDP look like Anne of Green Gables.

"So if there is nothing wrong with the NDP working on Recall why did Moe say to keep the public in the dark then?"

Optics probably. Which I think is silly. Many people on the Left who hate Carole James have been calling for the NDP to take leadership of recall for a long time. James and Sihota refuse to.

"Your normally excellent memory seems to have forgotten..."

Not relevant, and unlike Kevin Falcon and the BC Liberals I doubt Vander Zalm is getting payments from the NDP party.

"What goes around comes around."

That's just a little too cynical for me. Corruption is here now, we should deal with it.

I said that The BC LIBERALS ARE DIRTY

THEY'VE BEEN DIRTY SINCE DAY ONE - THE DAY CAMPBELL USED HIS TYPICAL SLEAZE TO STEAL THE PARTY FROM GORDON WILSON.

THE ROT IN CAMPBELL'S SOUL GOES BACK A LOT FURTHER THAN 2001 AND THIS LATEST VERSION IS JUST MORE OF THE SAME.

THE SUGGESTION THERE IS ANY COMPARISON BETWEEN WHAT HAS GONE ON SINCE CAMPBELL GOT THE POWER BUTTON WITH WHAT WENT ON BEFORE UNDER ANY OTHER GOVERNMENT IN THIS PROVINCE SINCE AT LEAST THE MIDDLE OF THE LAST CENTURY IS LAUGHABLE.

YOU'RE A SMART GUY WHO ISN'T USUALLY AFRAID OF THE TRUTH.

HOW COME YOU'RE DODGING IT?

Yes Frank

But did the POLITICIANS take bribes or get a payoff or order B/V to take bribes. That is the question that has been basically, answered in court. No evidence. Why didn;t the defence present any. They sura told us they were going to. Leading us on to pad the bill?
No point arguing over which party is more scandal ridden. What people here consider "crimes", like ROR, is government policy and the public at large doesn't agree with you. They've had two chances to throw them out over these issues and haven't.
What do you mean Sihota refuses to work the Recall file. He's on the NDP written record as wanting to do exactly that, just doesn't want the public to know. Would you at least call that dirty? Probably not.
Final word is yours, Cheers

Anyone who works the recall file

On any of these scoundrels is a hero in my books.

They've lost the right to be treated as normal.

Tar and feathers

Tar and feathers is what all Lieberal sleaze bag politicians are deserving of. Citizen arrests and citizen courts are the only alternative to the corrupt system. Revoke consent or go back to sleep.

I'm not deaf West

And just b/c we have a difference of opinion is no reason to do that.
I've told you before I've had personal experience with defence lawyers so I know how they play the game. Try to drag everybody else down into the muck and hope you can sling some mud that sticks. That was the strategy here from what I saw and no evidence was presented to show any different.
I'm just not going to buy that B/V would admit guilt to a serious criminal offence, with a lifelong record so they could "get on with their life"
Bull. If I'm going down I'm taking everyone with me and so would you.
So allow me my personal opinion if thats ok with you. Yes I've been wrong before.....and so have you.

Can't talk anymore,not near a computer and am sending this from my phone. I'm a terrible typist to start with and a 4" touchscreen is too brutal.
Cheers for now

Just in time

I agree with an earlier post that this trial had to end to prevent Gary Collins from taking the witness stand. Having the former finance minister under oath was too dangerous...worth six million bucks to keep that time bomb from exploding.

happy, it is illegal

"Now, please answer me one question - why should these guys have their legal bills paid for them?"

happy ~ They shouldn't and I've already answered, dirty politics to keep the dirty laundry out of sight. To repeat, thats not illegal, just sleazy.

If the intention was to spend the money to keep the dirty laundry from airing, it is called a breach of trust, an illegal act.

But such illegalities, offenses by the letter of the law, are not pursued due to the power of the political paradigm.

Nonetheless, it is a crime in the eyes of right-thinking persons.

happy

The trial had only begun, as Mark Hume at the Globe said, the interesting part of the defence was just about to start when the payoff came and it all ended.

NADA - I'm not yelling

That's not what's happened...AND, as Frank points out - there was virtually NO evidence presented. If there's been foot dragging (and there has been) it wasn't the defence doing the dragging, it was the prosecution.

If you'd like, I can provide you with the list of evidence the defence asked for YEARS ago and which the prosecution did everything in their power (including ignoring a decision by the BC Court of Appeal) to waylay.

I think the Basi Boys were doing their political and bought and paid for duty - just like they were doing their jobs when they phoned the open mouth shows to plump Gordon's pillows and bad mouth the opposition - and they happened to get caught doing something they'd been told to do by their bosses...namely, string along one of the stalking horses that had been set up to make CN's bid look legitimate.

They got caught in a manipulative and self-serving trap whereby the bastards on the other side were going to stretch the trial out till hell froze over. And so they pled guilty - but it was all a sham - a deal worked out to save them the potentially ruinous costs of throwing the dice with a jury...which is why both the accused said that they have a clear conscience. These are the same guys who told Gary Mason in an interview published on December 23 2006 that there was 'nothing' to these charges.

At the time he said: “This case has dragged on and on and we've said nothing. We can't stay silent any longer. We are innocent of all the charges. We've said that from Day 1. It's been difficult to say nothing, especially given how we've been treated."

That was almost 4 years ago - to Dave Basi and Bobby Virk - stacked up against the might of the RCMP, a hired gun (who donated to the BC Liberals), a constitutional expert from Legal Services Branch who was working full time to keep the Premier's Office out of the limelight and a bizarre situation in which the sitting judge was switched in the middle of preliminary hearings - to mention only a few of the bullshit moves the crown employed to stonewall this thing - it may very well have reached a point where a phony guilty plea and a get out of jail free card looked awfully good. Especially with the promise of special treatment in terms of ignoring the rule about enforced indemnification for legal fees paid on behalf of crown employees.
And besides, you’re purposefully ignoring the lack of character of the man behind the curtain – the guy whose malign presence lurks behind every one of those ridiculous ‘Best Place on Earth’ adverts.

Use your imagination!

And, even if I’m wrong about everything else, the fact the indemnification rule is being dumped into the trash can ought to be more than sufficient evidence of incipient corruption and the perversion of the justice system in this province for anyone – especially a critic like you happy.

there comes a time, happy

... when the circumstantial evidence pointing at Gordon Campbell's involvement becomes so overwhelming that he must offer a more plausible explanation of events or stand guilty (as he now stands if only in the eyes of the public).

Happy

Well,I can see how it would look like that to you, and it wasn't clear that I was feeding Gidget the Troll - never a wise thing to do. The troll's second rant mentioned,

"There is absolutely no evidence that this mishap went any higher than it did...."

Which, of course, courtroom observers, both professional and amateur, have said just the opposite on blogs and media from here to Europe. But, as pointed out on BC Mary's blog for many years now, it's been remarkably difficult to interest any of the major Canadian media in any aspects of this case, at least, since right after the RCMP's earthshaking announcement about organized crime in the Leg back in 2003.

"BTW, look at the horrorfying disaster that Mayor Gregor Robertson and his so-called Vancouver Vision has become."

Speaking of flinging mud.... Mayor Moonbeam was anointed the elected one some 5-6 weeks in advance of the election, and some four weeks prior to Vision Vancouver releasing their election platform, which ended up being the most conflicted political document I'd ever read, promising more services but lower taxes, more bike lanes, but freedom to move in a car and more transit besides, eco-friendly neighbourhoods and developer-friendly engineering departments.... all dutifully swallowed by the aforementioned media.

Sigh. You can think I was quoting The Scum like I believe it, but I can assure you, I wasn't. All those quotes were from various Scum writers and editorialists who do their best to provide maximum heat and hilarity for minimum effort and fact-checking.

After all, a stopped clock is right twice a day. Is it the right time now? How else to explain Palmer's new-found balls? Why the apparent concern for legality now when the drunken premier was given a free ride by the same editorialists 7 years ago? Lend me your watch and I'll tell you what time it is, because it's later than you think. Then you can do us all a public service and inform our anonymous "idget", who seems to be stuck in the same time warp.

If the distinction eludes you, I can try again. Or we can just go back to feeding the troll.

Wait a minnit...

On second thought

I misspoke. There is one press that at one time was relatively interesting, free, and vigorous in pursuit of fact and truth. The Indo-Canadian Times.

Until Tara Singh Hayer was murdered.

more humour from "idget"

"And, as a member of Team A, I am very happy with all of the disunity in Team B."

Uh, I'm quite sure you meant The A-Team, right? With,
- Richie Coleman as Hannibal Smith, stogie in mug, ordering everyone around,
- Kevin Falcon as Mad-Dog Murdoch, psyched on his own version of reality
- Colin Hansen as Faceman Peck, charming the bankers out of their shorts while hiding the bankruptcy papers for the provincial treasury behind his back, and,
- you-know-who as B.A. Baracus - the one and only Mr. T. at the wheels of the bus, pedal to the metal, driving the province over a cliff shouting "Who you callin' fool, fool? Who you callin' fool, fool?" The Gordo hisself in a full-metal jacket.

Oscar Wilde in his 1889 essay The Art of Lying was so right - life imitates art far more than art imitates life.

A few points then

first off - samuidave...your point about breach of trust is well taken, if it could be proved I agree 100%
second - zalm...ok thanks, understood. Very insightful comment on the Indo times. Gidget seems to be channeling the now departed BC Boy "with an edge"
third - West...for me to accept what your saying means I have to believe that political interference and corruption has taken place at the highest levels of the Supreme Court of British Columbia and the RCMP. This would be the most explosive case of political corruption in the history of Canada. I'll just wait for further developments as something like that with the number of people you alledge are involved would NOT be able to be covered up. It just couldn't.
Further now the story has changed with respect to a jury trial. The defence was the one that demanded a jury before the trial started. Now thats turned into "rolling the dice" and it was the defence that reccomended to B & V to take the plea bargain as "the best deal your going to get", one can only conclude the defence didn't have much evidence after all. Even if they had nothing, if B & V were innocent all they would have to do would be to demand to be put on the stand themselves and name names, dates and places and make Gordo or Collins or whoever take the stand themselves and call them liars and make them prove it.
Thats my view which I consider objective. Yours is the entire thing was rigged, full stop. Until more information, if any develops I don't see any movement here.

happy

You're spinning. Basi and Virk aren't claiming they weren't bribed. They're claiming they're not the only guilty people.

But 7 years and $6 million has a way of smoothing that over I guess.

Of course if you want to continue to believe they spent $6 million and 7 years to avoid giving their bribe money back then go ahead.

Why a Plea Bargain and a Confidentially Agreement

If innocent, why would Basi and Virk sign agree to plea bargains and sign confidentially agreements?

They are definitely not innocent, but they agreed to these terms because they have been isolated for 7 years. Although they thought their political masters were going protect them, they woke up to the fact their illustrious leaders were going to hang them out to dry. The deep pockets of the Campbell Regime would break them both financially and emotionally.

Many innocent individuals or victims stuck in difficult situations sign confidentially agreements, usually on the advice of their lawyers. This often happens to whistleblowers, as well as others that are pushed into unethical circumstances.

Employees caught in this trap also become isolated. After termination of their employment, they find themselves ostracized. Their former co-workers are afraid to speak up, because their fear loss of their own livelihoods. The deep pockets of the deviously rich and powerful are nearly impossible to challenge. Financial losses are inevitable and their self esteems can be severly damaged.

I will Frank

Because they weren't fighting 7 years to avoid paying back bribe money.
They spent 7 years fighting to avoid going to jail.
And jumped at the chance to avoid what now appears to have been a real possibility.
Thats from the mouths of their high paid lawyers, not me.

happy

Exactly.

But in the end they didn't go to jail, they didn't lose any assets. All they had to do was give back the bribe money. Pretty nice.

And meanwhile all the people around them such as those they worked for and those that did the bribing weren't punished either.

In the end government officials were bribed, favours were done and nobody got punished for it. And the guy that made that decision was Basi and Virk's boss.

Yes Frank

Thats what the defence team said verbatim for years too.
Too bad they couldn't walk the talk when the time came to produce. Bluffing only works when the other players fold.
Or were they part of the conspiracy too, or just plain incompetent

happy

Its not the defence team, its the facts. Its what everyone in the province that pays attention understands.

No one was punished in spite of government officials doing favours in return for bribes.

If you want to call that a conspiracy theory then I nominate you as the biggest Liberal supporter in BC.

Big sigh

Frank, show me a substantiated fact other than personal opinions and unsubstantiated allegations and I might reconsider.

Wrong, two people were punished and now have criminal records. The punishment was bunk but thats our court system. The special prosecutor is on the record for taking 100% responsibility for the deal. Thats what I call a substantiated fact.

The conspiracy theory is not mine. Look up thread.

happy

Fact : 2 members of the Liberal government admitted to accepting bribes in return for favours.

Fact : The people offering the bribes admit they did so.

Fact : No one was punished. No jail time, no loss of property, no court costs, no fines beyond what they received in bribes. The house arrest they were under allows them to work and attend events.

Fact : The special prosecutor didn't have the authority to hand the guilty $6 million.

Frank

Like I said. The prosecutor is on the record for taking full responsibility for the deal that addresses all your points. He is on the record saying the politicians did not know of the deal until it was given to them to sign off on.
So the bottom line is - you are stating flat out that the prosecutor must be lying, as he says Gordo knew nothing of it. Is he lying?

And now this news....

"B.C. holds five-year-old mortgage on Basi’s home
ROBERT MATAS
VANCOUVER— From Thursday's Globe and Mail
Published Thursday, Oct. 21, 2010 3:00AM EDT
Last updated Thursday, Oct. 21, 2010 3:08AM EDT
The B.C. government struck a deal with former political aide Dave Basi five years ago to advance him funds for legal fees, and if necessary recoup that money by forcing the sale of his $857,000 family home.

That deal, undisclosed until now, contradicts claims by B.C. Attorney-General Mike de Jong that the government – as part of a settlement in the long-running political corruption case – agreed to pay $6-million in legal fees because Mr. Basi and his fellow defendant, Bobby Virk, had no ability to pay. “The government won’t pursue what isn’t there,” Mr. de Jong said at the time of the settlement on Monday."

happy

Your answer conflicts with what the deputy attorney general said :

"Based on the above, in our respective capacities the Deputy Minister of Finance and I decided to release Mr. Basi and Mr. Virk from their liability to repay. I communicated that decision to the Attorney General on October 8, 2010."

From today's Province.

So does that mean the special prosecutor is lying? Someone is.

Not at all, happy

I'm not saying the SCC is corrupt - I'm saying that the Crown Prosecutor used an appeal to the supreme court in order to subvert a decision by: (a) the Trial judge, and
(b) the BC Court of Appeal,
thereby creating at least a one-year delay in the prosecution of this case. And that is only a tiny portion of the time – the crown in this country is bound to full disclosure and full disclosure in a timely fashion.

The flaws and delays in this case ARE NOT THE RESULT OF FOOT DRAGGING BY THE DEFENCE…

You claimed that the defence was the party which had stretched out and obfuscated matters to the point where the Basi boys could have their guilt 'bought' for a promise to pay legal fees - the enormous amount whereof was a chiefly the result of delays by the CROWN PROSCECUTOR. In fact, I can point out exactly when and how much defence council were paid up to the last set of provincial blue books available for the most recent fiscal year…equally, I can show you the billings of the prosecution team(s) from time to time over an even longer and more attenuated period.

If you want more details into these aspects of the case (some of which did not come to light because the new trial judge placed an embargo on a whole lot of things which happened in the courtroom) I suggest you have a look at this:
http://tinyurl.com/3567sv9

And, if you’re still curious after that, I can provide you with a lot more information – including the relevant sections of the Attorney General Act (RSBC 1996) Chapter 22

I believe that there is convicing evidence that delay and deception was the prime and almost only characteristic of the case presented by the Crown... in fact, the crown called a grand total of TWO WITNESSES.

Pathetic and at arguably VERY damaging to the reputation of the Crown in its responsibility to serve the needs of a fair, speedy and impartial justice system in this province.

OK then West

So the court isn't corrupt then. But the prosecutor is?
That seems to be the gist of the link you provided, along with many more questions than answers.
And the bottom line is that Basi and Virk were flat out framed then.
As I said, that would be the biggest case of political corruption in Canadaian history.
Theres been plenty of MSM reporting on this. I honestly don't see any public reaction whatsoever, the HST issue garnered far more attention.
I think the facts will dribble out slowly in the coming days, heres one today from the CBC

"Loukidelis said a letter was sent to counsel for Basi and Virk on Wednesday releasing them from a condition not to publicly discuss the financial matters of the deal."

Grab a couch. This could take a while

And, happy, further to what freebear says

You might care to have a close look at all of this:

http://tinyurl.com/25kydtj

The Campbell ‘government’ had already arranged an indemnification for Basi's legal fees as long as five years ago - as they should have. That’s what their own policies and practices set out.

The suggestion that Basi had no ability to pay is clearly a lie (and I use that word for good reason) - he had plenty of ability and I'd wager a similar agreement existed over Robert Virk's property(s) too.

IN fact, DeJong's suggestion that there would have been 'costs' associated with the seizure of these assets (the charge is already registered on the title) and that there was no prospect of a successful collection of a good portion of defence attorneys' costs is absurd. Defrauded investors frequently have to settle for five cents on the dollar - the privy purse could have done a lot better than that on this 'deal'.

What do you suppose will happen to that mortgage now?

If readers can't see that the crown got exactly what it wanted from this farce then there is no longer a viable market for objective truth in this province.

BASI AND VIRK sold their guilty plea for 6 million beans and a get out of jail free card.

There is no other possible conclusion. Every decent reporter in this province should refuse to report on anything this government says until they open the books on what happened to BC RAIL.

Anything else just encourages the rascals.

NO MORE BUSINESS AS USUAL WITH CROOKS.

It’s time to step up and tell them where to go. If it takes recall to send these bastards to the dugout – so be it. Bring on the petitions – the province can’t afford another of Gordon Campbell’s brainstorms.

Oh, a second thought

Yes, about those two witnesses. Things were just starting to roll when out of the blue His Royal Highness announced a two month summer vacation.
That made me see red as you know how I feel about public employees and their excessive perks.
So would you consider that a stall tactic....or the norm.

THIS IS

THE BIGGEST CASE OF POLITICAL CORRUPTION IN BC AND PROBABLY CANADIAN HISTORY - IT'S ON A PAR WITH THE PACIFIC SCANDAL THAT BROUGHT DOWN MCDONALD'S GOVERNMENT AND IT MAKES THE SOMMERS AFFAIR LOOK LIKE CHOPPED LIVER.

The AG says the forfeiture of the defense costs.....

....is out of his hands. It's the assistant AG who decided to forego collection.

So - is this a tacit admission that the Liberal government is not in fact running the province? Or does the sum of $6M constitute "chump change" to the point where the AG needn't bother finding out just what the assistant AG is doing?

I heard that too RickW

In fact, Stephen Quinn asked the 'wrong' questions. It was an appallingly bad interview.

What the AG should have been asked was the following:
1) Attorney, as the Attorney General for the province of British Columbia, it is your responsibility and duty to 'superintend' all matters connected with the administration of justice in British Columbia; you must advise the government on all aspects of the law and matters of law connected with all ministries; ...in keeping with those statutory responsibilities what have you done to ensure that the plea bargain agreement arrived at in this case is in the best interests of both the law and the finances of the province?

2) Since you have purported to delegate the authority given to you in the Act to subordinates in both your ministry and the ministry of Finance, are you now willing to direct these officials to speak on the record with respect to all aspects of the agreement reached with respect to the plea-bargain and the concession of monies due and payable to the province for legal services rendered from time to time?

3) You know, Attorney, that it is a principle of fundamental importance that justice must both be done and seen to be done in order for the administration of law to continue to be held in high repute by the public. The taxpayers in this province are now responsible for the legal bills of two convicted criminals and the public has a right to know exactly how this came about. Therefore, Attorney, will you open all the files and records of the Special Prosecutor in this matter so that the public can be assured that there was no political interference or bargains made which are not in the interests of both the justice system and the finances of this province?

4) You have said, Attorney, that you were NOT involved in any negotiations but you have not provided any evidence that negotiations did not take place - in order to clear the air, will you order that all matters which came before the court in the matter of Basi, Virk and Basi vs the Queen be made public forthwith - exactly as has happened traditionally in criminal cases of a similar nature in the country for generations?

If you have nothing to hide, Attorney, you cannot have any reason, under the circumstances, to providing the openness and accountability that real justice requires.

The people of this province are not children - they have a right to know the facts - particularly in respect of items that cost them money and credibility.

They always ask the wrong questions, don't they?

And I must wonder at the lack of incisiveness. Are they merely "doing their jobs" to collect their paycheques? Or (in the best traditions of paranoia) is there an undercurrent of fear and intimidation at work here?

After all, the CBC's neck is on the block, and I can understand that, as long as "Peewee" is confined to a minority government, the not-so-proverbial ax may not fall. So CBC personnel might be disinclined to stir the pot any more than is "acceptable", no matter that it is, in this instance, provincial (and theoretically lightyears removed from Ottawa - save for the fact that Harper lusts after federal seats in BC).

More news stories, please

Please, Tyee, I trust you have more news stories upcoming on the BC Rail/Basi-Virk Plea Bargain. We're not getting a hell of a lot out of the mainstream press, for sure. Other than - you know it's bad when even The Province is calling for a public inquiry (Oct 20).

The best CBC Radio interviews on the subject this week have been with local criminology academics and, even more ironically, Gordon Wilson, today (Oct 21).

Of course, what were they thinking bringing AG on radio? What is he going to say? The stink, slime and sleaze of the BC Rail case announcement this week is shocking and appalling enough. To hear de Jong permitted on airwaves to spew his government's propoganda defending it - worse. The insult to the intelligence of all citizens in the explanation and defence of this outcome could not be any worse. The Liberal party has lost all bearings. They would not recognize an honest politician if one came up and slapped them with a lawsuit. 10 years is enough. Time to hand over the reigns, boys, and give another party a chance at beginning to ATTEMPT to clean up the destruction and corruption you have wreacked on our province, its citizens, its environment, its economy and, not least, its justice system. The Liberal party under Gordon Campbell shall go down in annals of BC's history as the most closed, corrupt and destructive government ever - topping even the final years of the Socred government.

I wonder how he will compare......

...to the Devine government in Saskatchewan?
http://business.highbeam.com/5587/article-1G1-30299689/stolen-revolution-corruption-and-incompetence-devine

Or Duplessis in Quebec?

Aurora

You're absolutely right... of the politicos (or former politicos) Gordon Wilson was absolutely the best of the bunch.

He was spot on in his critique of the whole affair AND he widened the discussion to make the point that the Crown had hardly begun to present its case when the axe fell - even though, as he pointed out, the delaying tactics of the Crown (in direct opposition to the Supreme Court's findings relative to full disclosure) seemed to be the main objective of the special prosecutor.

And, he made the necessary and fundamental connections between the ‘real’ cause of the action – the incontrovertible fact that the whole structure of the sale of BC Rail (and the complicity of the government) has been called into question. Not only were there bribed parties – there were bribers and there were highly political go-betweens linking the two…

Gordon Campbell’s judgment (and the character of his friends and associates) has been called into serious question too often for any rational person to believe this mockery.
In the absence of a complete public airing of the whole matter, especially now that we know the official facts surrounding the declined indemnity are “questionable” – if not outright lies – there is no possible way that this province can avoid one more black ball to add to the bunch we already have: the highest rates of child poverty; the lowest level of arts funding; the most laughable minimum wage in the country. We are now, without doubt, inheritors of the title of the most corrupt and secretive provincial government in the nation.

One can only wonder what politics in this province might be like today if Gordon Wilson had remained at the head of a 'real' liberal party.

Grant Devine

I think the best read on that history is a book called "Privatizing a Province : The New Right in Saskatchewan" by 1 prof from U of S in Saskatoon (Pitsula) and another prof at the U of R in Regina (Rasmussen).

It would be difficult to pick between Devine and Campbell as worst premier ever. Of course some Devine Conservatives went to jail afterwards and they even had to create a new party but then that's not that weird in BC where the Socred/Liberals have pulled that stunt.

G West

The tramp, Gordon Wilson, did have a third alternative. It was called the Progressive Democratic Alliance, the PDA, and present Liberal Party of Canada MP for Vancouver South, as NDP Premier of BC (Ujjal Dosanjh) paid him off, gave him a cabinet post, and killed his career.

[OFFENSIVE COMMENT REMOVED. -MODERATOR.]

Gidget - The Socialist hordes are at the door.

Gordon Campbell had an alternative.

Instead he descended to the dark side and he's been there ever since.

Sadly, there are a lot of people (9%) in British Columbia for whom that reality still hasn't set in.

What I can't understand is why, but it is consoling to know that a tool can self-identify!

Earlier Tyee Article Says it All

This article by courageous Bill Tieleman, with direct quotes from wiretaps of Gary Collins, pretty much says it all.

http://thetyee.ca/News/2007/05/04/CollinsWiretap/

Say Frank

Re your comment on the neo-conning of Sakatchewan. Very timely, I'm sure you saw the news report today about Wall rejecting the takeover of Potash Corp br foreigners.
Were you surprised? It sure doesn't fit the template that many of us (me too) like to pin on political parties, does it.
On a second note I also see today a development co. (don't know who) plead guilty to bribery in the B/V case over the ALR issue.
Which kind of validates what I said above, lets take a deep breath as the facts will slowly dribble out.

happy

The facts can't 'dribble' out if there's a non-disclosure agreement in place which prevents the parties from talking about their role in the main matter we're all concerned about...

As for the Brad Wall thing - Saskatchewan people, even conservatives, understand how important the Potash Industry is to the province - the only question now is whether or not Pee Wee understands - the 'participation' of the province (or not) in the decision about whether another Canadian asset should be sold offshore is up to the Feds.

Don't hold out much hope on that score...

The interesting thing about the ALR case which involves a couple of Island developers is that it was being heard by a different judge here in Victoria. Why the case has been moved to Vancouver and given to Anne Mackenzie IS a good question.
Never fear, I'm sure the crown has this all wrapped up too and covered with a convenient guilty plea.

I suppose you also heard Brian Keiran speaking out too. I hope you noticed he said how 'surprised' he was that his partner had made the payments in question and his 'firm' had been used to pass on secret government documents.

Might have been nice to get those details in open court, don't you think?

BTW, the news isn't all bad - apparently Pilothouse went tits-up after their role had come to light. I'm told Kieran is selling cars here in Victoria now.

I think he should fit right in, don't you? Maybe there will be a job for Campbell and Hansen at the same dealership….

Mybe, maybe not West

Don't forget Harpo's the only PM in Canadian history to prevent a foreign takeover of a national asset, MacDonald Dettwiler. Lightning could strike twice.
You just kill me sometimes, if the development co. had got off you'd be blaring from the rooftops about how obviously Gordo had bought people off, now its described as wrapped up in a "convenient gulty plea." You should be a lawyer yourself, your perfect for it....:>
What, only a car salesman soft landing job for Kieran? Wheres all these high paying corporate rewards I've read about in the Tyee. Sure he's not a politician but still....if he isn't taken "care of" properly he may be tempted to sell his story for big bucks eh.

No big rewards for the pond scum who get caught

And remember, Socreds and BC Liberals HAVE ALWAYS had a high proportion of car salesmen in their midst - I don't see it as a demotion, I see it as going back where he belongs.

As for the Young and Duncan part of the situation - maybe they were able to call on the prosecutor to give them immunity - just like Kieran's (how do you spell his name?) former partner Erik Bornman(n) did...

Doesn’t it seem a little rich to you that the people doing the bribing ended up with smiles on their faces?

And, I don't get your point, I've never ever suggested Basi and Virk were angels - just that they were political go-to guys - and that they DID what they were told...

That's the problem - that and the fact that, as I said before, the Special Prosecutor is the fella who distinguished himself by NOT COMPLYING with the RIGHT of the accused to full and prompt disclosure.....

As for Pee Wee, I'll keep my fingers crossed...Seems he's more interested in putting destitute brown-skinned refugees into detention just now.

And you must know I was joking about Campbell and Hansen – of course they’ll get a nice soft landing…I just hope it isn’t in this province – they’ve done enough damage here already/

Addendum

I did a bit of checking - seems like the most likely route to safety for Young and Duncan - who should have had the book thrown at them (in my view) for illegally getting land out of the ALR - is that it's now their company that's being charged and will undoubtedly pay the fine.

They must have tied the whole steaming turd into the same shiny package this past Monday.
I expect that'll mean no criminal record for the boys and a deductible expense for their company. Was it Campbell's birthday?

Step right up, everyone wins in Gordo's world! (Except the taxpayer and the justice system - but try to keep that one quiet...shhh!)

You know happy, whatever I might have said about CEO government and the destruction of the province in the past, I’m now going to have to take it all back.

I was wayyyy too easy on these guys. I actually thought they might have a scruple or two among them. These are the same fart catchers who came to power promising to be open and accountable - remember?

Have a nice weekend.

Potash Fears.

Who was premier of BC when MacMillan Bloedel was sold to a US company for $2.5 billion- without so much as a whimper?

The Prime Minister was a federal Liberal, Mr. Chrétien.

happy

"Which kind of validates what I said above, lets take a deep breath as the facts will slowly dribble out."

I don't know how that validates what you said above, you'll have to draw me a picture.

The facts remain as I stated, corruption of government officials happened and no one got punished and no one is going to get punished.

Works both ways Mr West

And what "individual" was it that had the book thrown at them over the NCHS scandal? Oh, none. It was the uh, "society" that did it all. No actual peole involved.
Say are you going to retract what you said about Mason? He's really giving it to the libs, front pg G & M today.
Thanks for the good wishes but my weekend will be spent like many. At work.

It was in reference to this Frank

Quote: "I think the facts will dribble out slowly in the coming days, heres one today from the CBC"

That was yesterday. And today we know a little bit more.
Nothing to say about Pot Corp? I thought you'd be pleased

I think you'd have to talk to Dave Stupich about that...

He and his family suffered pretty significantly (and unjustifiably in my view) in that example of Right Wing 'dread'....

By the way, I don't accept that there was ANY real scandal whatsoever about NCHS - and, I think I can justify that statement with lots of proof.

It was simply another example of the black cloud that certain people have put over politics in this province.

You know exactly who I mean. And, in fairness, I don’t think you’re really dealing with what I’ve said. Still, have a good weekend – even though you’re not the only one who’s working.

As for plumping Chretien's pillow r/man - I'd like you to tell me when I've ever done such a thing.

Irrelevant, and off topic. But not unusual.

The sad part about the potash corporation of Saskatchewan is that Romanow sold off the company in order to pay the debt Devine had rung up ... that, in my view, was a mistake...but, NDP governments run fewer and lower deficits than right wing governments so you have to take the good with the bad.

Total Cost = BCRail + 6 Million Legal fees + 18 Million Court

I can see why the courts system is having trouble if petty criminals are racking up legal bills for 24 million. Total cost for Basi and Virk is 24 million + BC Rail and of course the people's trust.

But Stupich walked

with one of those "plea bargain" deals.
Retired to his gulf island estate.
So my point....was that I see no difference between that, where a Society ended up being charged, or here, where a company ends up being charged.
No doubt you do.
Stuffs happening, must leave. Cheers

No he didn't

He didn't even mount a defence because he had already been ruined - losing virtually all his assets to legal bills - very different from Gordon's two little friends.

happy

Its not up to Brad Wall, the fact that he doesn't want it taken over is nice but he can't stop it. Only Harper can do that.

"And today we know a little bit more."

Which means what?

As for BingoGate being compared to RailGate... first, Dave Stupich retired 3 years before the NDP became government. Therefore nothing he did was government corruption because he wasn't in it. The NDP government didn't help anyone out because of a bribe.

In fact there's very little commonality between the two cases at all.

Yet, the NDP launched a public inquiry, Campbell doesn't. The NDP premier took responsibility and resigned, Campbell didn't. The government didn't pay Stupich's legal fees.

So if you want to draw parallels the Liberals will look even worse.

@happy - DO you get the Globe and Mail?

If you do, please take a look at Mark Hume's story on page A7 today.

Everything I told you yesterday about Tony Young and Jimmy Duncan is confirmed in black and white...along with a self-serving 'explanation' from Janet Winteringham (who happens to be Bill Berardino's junior on the BC Rail file).

If you can't smell the odour coming off this pile of shit - move along down to paragraph 18 and 19 of the article.

Are you just a little pissed off yet?

This case WAS being heard in Victoria, a different venue and a different judge - it ended up all tied into the same rotten deal that gave Aneal Basi a clean slate and put Dave Basi and Bobby Virk back on the streets almost all the time with little more than a slap on the wrist.

You suppose Basi's cheque for the fine is gonna bounce?

Time for all British Columbian's to wake up - the province was put up for sale 10 years ago and a lot of the benefits are going to convicted criminals...all the taxpayers get is the bill.

Oh, and while you're at it, have a look at Christie Blatchford's column inside the front page - I don't always agree with her but she's hit another one out of the park this morning.

Nice to see someone still believes in the rule of law.

@happy - I suppose you don't get the Times Colonist...SO

I'll provide a link for this one:

http://tinyurl.com/329x4qd

Y'see, it's not just yours truly who's making car dealer analogies...

Isn't this getting to you yet?