What?

Trickle down effect, not much impact to low income people?, please gimme a break already Hansen. No business would pass on savings to the consumer, in fact prices have gone up. Campbell and Co are mistaken in thier assumption and arrogant. Once again Campbell and Co's facade has failed. Recall is the one viable solution to this issue and it is a reality.

Crankypants

I really do think you have gotten smarter over the years I've known you here. Have you noticed that there is a "kind of" convergence of viewpoints been going on here... excluding the rwingnuts of course. (Though even there, there are one or two that seem to have got smarter as well. Snert, seems actually to have "evolved", unless this is not the same one of "an earlier time".)

What I find most interesting about the current period is, that there has been a dawning realization that all the parties to current capitalism are more fundamentally alike, than unalike... and I mean, that goes for them all, without exception, including the so-called Greens. They all think WITHIN the box. Never, never OUTSIDE it. And I think folks have actually come to realize this.

This so-called democracy is bullshit. Plain and simple. It has no real content of any heft, any real substantivity. The best we get to do is elect, as crankypants says, our own dictatorship for the next X number of years. And whatever our choice, they all produce essentially the same policies and practise result... that leave the ruling class and their power untouched and unthreatened,.

A way has to be evolved of wiggling and squirming, threatening and cajoling our way out The Box we are all caught up as wage slaves in.

Do you have to have big tits too?

To qualify under the Vander Zalm plan to start a recall campaign. Just wondering because with all the seats just waiting to fall right now, only three are going to be targetted and that won't even begin until Jan 1.
http://www.elections.bc.ca/index.php/referenda-recall-initiative/recall/faqs/

Driftwood....

There is certainly nothing written in stone or law anywhere that says only the Vander Zalm plan can proceed. That's just the Old Socred Guard attempting to set the agenda and control outcomes. Otherwise, it's pretty much up to folks in local communities, as to whether or not they can take it on and organize effectively.

Indeed, I would encourage, that "wherever" a Recall can effectively proceed, it be done, regardless who hold the given seat... Liberal or NDP. All deserve to fall.

The Old Socred Guard has thus far pretty effectively taken control of the issue for their own purposes of course (to become the new flag bearing rallying point for the Corporatist Right, as its hereto Liberal banner goe down.)... And eh, all's fair in love, war and politics. ...but they can certainly be outflanked and/or absorbed into something larger as MAY evolve no less.

I have doubts that The Left and Progressive forces are that sufficiently organized right now, but ehhh, I've been wrong before. (Once 8-) And if its true that the public mood has changed that much in mass, then all things become suddenly possible.

A Big Problem...

The indicators of a collapse of confidence within and about the NDP (and trade unions), into which The Left and Progressives have been much invested for a long time now, has created even more disarray on The Left than has, as I say, long been normal... since at least the early 80s, when it became obvious... though actually even longer, I would contend.

Hopefully, and I actually think, this is temporary, while these folks struggle with what to do with themselves, and where and if to go. They have "issues" they need to sort out.

Again, we shall see.

Your point MacLeod?

So the CPI increased in BC since the HST was introduced.
Yes. It also increased in all provinces at that same time, more so in some cases.
A large portion of the increase was higher gas prices. Gas is HST excempt in BC.
Whether or not the HST will do what its proponents say, lead to lower prices in SOME cases can not possibly be ruled on after a bare two months. Thats ludicrous to try to state MacLeod. Business 101 for you.
(back off people, I support the anti HST program, but this article is so grasping it does nothing)

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/subjects-sujets/cpi-ipc/cpi-ipc-eng.htm

Fatally Flawed...

I'm on the Daily KOS mailing list, out of the, in a US context, "left and progressive" faction within the their US Democratic Party. And when you read Vaughn Palmer's column in this weekends West Coast Section of the Vancouver Sun, on Carole James' leadership of the NDP, it is hard not to realize that Carole, as has actually been going on since the first selection of the "New Democratic Party" name, after abandoning the old CCF (Co-operative Commonwealth Federation) with its "leftwing" ring, continues to be positioning that party to in fact be an "echo party" of the US Democratic Party. (And I appreciate that at least the Federal Liberal's are seeking likewise.) Her leadership direction, and this tradition within "The Centre" position of Canadian politics, which she states in no uncertain terms is where the NDP leadership wants to go, I would contend, is itself, in these times, but another of those manifestations of the "Amerikanization" of Canadian politics, no less than the Conservatives. Which underlying political reality in turn is a reflection of the Amerikanization of the Canadian economy.

Where the economy goes, the politics is destined to quickly follow.

I urge you all to read this article by Vaugn Palmer. It helps make clear the intentions of James and, I think, separately, the advanced stage of the Amerikanization of this country, reaching into our very ruling class dominant "democratic" institutions themselves, including ALL the parties to it.

You want to be even a bit player in that cathedral, unless you are part of something much larger and pretty overwhelming itself, sooner or later you are going to have to play completely by their rules. This, the NDP, along with much of our trade union leadership, has pretty much clearly decided to do... holus bolus... entirely.

Sooner or later, if they have not already, the so-called "Left" within the NDP, has a choice to make... about whether to commit to a sovereign Canada, implacably opposed to this Amerikanization process, or to become a part of the Amerikanization and its NDP face as well.

(And there is a chance, if the recent polls are to be believed, that the NDP could win on this strategy in the next BC election. Unless the Old Socred Guard pulls off a stunner upset. Just keep in mind, that said, it is a minority of the eligible electorate that will decide this, with no other option even being available to those of us not prepared to support any of these parties to capitalism AND the Amerikanization of the province and the country.)

It is a flawed democracy indeed... fatally flawed.

Coyoteman

I did read the article you recommended and the only thing it made clear was the brand of journalism practiced by Vaughn Palmer. Take out his negative comments and what do you have left? The Carol James who believes in health, education, innovation for business in BC. Frankly, she's the broom we need to sweep corruption form the halls of power in Victoria. What's wrong with that? Especially compared to the Lieberals have already demonstrated their complete distain for the average BCer by cutting health care, education, and the right to a decent life in general.
No, what all this NDP bashing is about it the realization by the right wing that the Liberal party is about to implode; and they want to stick us with some other self-interest only right wing party before we discover that good education and health care only come from people who care about the ordinary BCer.
Carol James would give us a sane and honest government. Haven't you had enough of lies and a constantly lowered standard of living?

Driftwood...

Actually, I am bashing ALL the parties to capitalism and Americanization... which includes the Liberals and NDP... no less than the Conservatives. They are ALL at the heart of the problems to the period, including...

"Haven't you had enough of lies and a constantly lowered standard of living?" Driftwood.

Haven't you? 8-)

Coyoteman

My point is that we're not going to get a perfect government - now or ever - so it's much better to work with one which, if elected, will scrap the HST.
And the NDP initiative to recall the legislature and hold a referendum ASAP is much more hopeful than giving the liberals another year to schmooze us into paying more taxes because it's 'good for us.'
Dumping the liberals for the NDP would certainly be a step in the right direction. Holding the recall now would help us do that. It's a slim window because the dominant media; as we are all realizing, has long been slanted towards the interests of its owners and the corporations and right wing governments which butter its bread with advertising dollars. My guess is that the NDP should get into election mode right away and start building that platform and redesign their website so we can examine said platform and have access to all their latest speeches. That information is needed to debate the NDP's critics.
I share your concerns that most of the political parties are tweedledum and tweedledee and wish the NDP would do something to prove me wrong:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ellen-brown/job-losses-not-in-north-d_b_341131.html
... and stop sending 3 billion dollars a year in interest payments to private banks and corporations when that money could be used much more advantageously right here in BC. The Government of Canada used a very similar model when it used the Bank of Canada to fund medicare. Until they stopped doing it in 1974 and now we find ourselves up to our necks in bankers.

coyoteman

It certainly doesn't help that a recent survey found out that the Average Canuck is living paycheque to paycheque (like this is something new?). What it does mean though is that the prospect of a general strike grows more remote if Average Canuck is afraid to lose even one pay packet. And business (and the Lib government) would be well aware of this, so can push the proverbial envelope with little chance of repercussions.

Were I in a union, I would push for the dismissal of the present union leadership. It may not do anything, but it would make me feel good, getting rid of the bums.

Rick and Driftwood...

This is indeed a rather depressing time. Unless, of course, I am the only one. 8-D lol

I don't share your confidence in the good intentions of the NDP Driftwood, though I wish I could. Seriously. It makes the prospects for meaningful social change and re-securing the self-reliant sovereignty of the country so much more difficult, that there is nothing currently out there, from my perspective, to serve as a vehicle for that.

And for sure I know precisely the hack scumbag that Vaughn Palmer is, along with most of the official propaganda media in this country, but.... what is most startling about this article of his, to which I refer, is that he is quoting directly from Carole's speech notes, publicly given. He is using her own words to hoist her upon her own petard, and the NDP.

I have always tended to hold out some hope that the NDP would re-discover its early Co-operative Commonwealth roots, but frankly, by now, out of their own mouths, I fear even this wan hope too is dashed completely.

As for the country, being as all the at least "official" parties to it it are fundamentally agreed (and trade unions), openly or by their complicit silence, as well as for reasons indicated by RickW, of the ignorance,fear and vulnerability of the mass of the Canadian populace, my worst fear is that the country as well is fundamentally lost. And this is a very real enough danger. It would take a sudden and massive turn around in public awareness, sentiment and willingness to act, to save the country from Amerika now, I strongly think. And I don't see that happening, or even likely to happen, anywhere on the scale that there needs to be. (It is starting from scratch, back at the beginning, and late in the game, if the NDP is not even on board as a thin hope.)

Now, hopefully, this is one of those things that I will turn out to be wrong on. I desperately hope so.

It is appearing more and more to me though, that the writing MAY just be on the wall. If true, in which case, all those of us outside this process and opposed to it, may have a bitter pill indeed to swallow, coming up here in relatively short historical order.

It would be comforting at least, to be able to be a true believer like Driftwood. 8-)

need higher prices

Good to have higher prices for consumer crap. People have too much stuff, eat and drink too much. Higher prices, maybe people won't be buying and eating so much. Got to stop unions from wage incrreases because that just makes higher cpi in a death-spiral. If we don't buy so much, companies go bust and private sector workers fired, which helps keep cpi down. Downsize government so those government workers get fired too and that will keep public wages down. Need to stop so much consuming NOW! Its better for the planet.

...a bridge for sale

If anyone really beleives that business will pass on savings accrued by the HST... well I have a bridge I want to sell you... It simply isn't going to happen...savings will always be incorporated into the boittome line anbd the savings will then be used to fund occasional 'sales' or promotional advertising specials.

Kiddies... the iron mantra of busisnbess is to NEVER reduce msrp prces for any reason... use the savings for marketing.

Job creation

One of the companies that is supposedly saving money because of the HST would be the LOG EXPORTING company, Timberwest. I fully expect to hear that they will be building a multitude of new mills on the Island, and return to life as a LUMBER company.

They will be able to employ some of the thousands that lost their jobs through the Liberal/Big Business attack on unions over the past several years.

Mind you, I will not hold my breath while I wait. Blue doesn't look good on me.

New Party

How do I copywrite a name for a middle-of-the-road political party?

Middle
Of
THE
Road
Party

The MOTHER (gotta love acronyms) of all parties, and if we form this party, and win an election, we will have the MOTHER of all parties - on the taxpayers back - same as any other party parties.

Motherhood...

"The MOTHER (gotta love acronyms) of all parties, and if we form this party, and win an election, we will have the MOTHER of all parties - on the taxpayers back - same as any other party parties." Warped. 8-)

Yup.

Which is why I primarily advocate for a movement of the citizenry outside of all Party loyalties That said, it MAY prove useful over the course of that struggle to take back the economy and the country, and infuse both with a significant new model of democry, to have a political party on the "inside", helping to throw monkey wrenches into the gears of the status quo. It could advocate for and as well, create laws that facilitate the people outside taking power over the economy, and in the suppression of capitalist power.

Excuse me...

The truth about neocons

Alice in Wonderland
Thanks, just seeing if the links will work :)

Hmm...

Velly Interesting