Challenging violence

like Canada did in 1980 in condemnation of the violence against Afghanistan:
http://archives.cbc.ca/sports/olympics/clips/7334/

Does our complicity in the planned violence against Afghanistan today alienate enough to merit even a boycott?

Violence destroys the message.

Breaking windows or similar "tactics" while protesting does far more harm to your fellow demonstrators and the credibility of their message than it gains from being more visible.
A significant percentage of people are not as unconcerned as our local mainstream media idiots are about the consequences of hosting the olympics.
Vanoc and the Campbell government have failed to boost poll numbers beyond the initial support for the games. Many questions remain unanswered.

But the winter games are upon us and almost everyone can sense a good vibe in the city; our civic pride wants the games to be a success.
I have no sympathy for violent protesters endangering the public and enticing police to use force.
Enjoying myself for two weeks doesn't forgive Campbell for lying to us.

Enjoying myself for two

Enjoying myself for two weeks doesn't forgive Campbell for lying to us.
==========

hypocrite.

I prefer humour and sarcasm myself

As someone already suggested elsewhere, the protestors should dress in shirts and ties, pants with briefcases. Media attention and confusion all at the same time!

Choosing violence means you haven't bothered to think of a smarter response!

For example; when the a for A-Hole hooligans in black show up have a plan where all non violent activists disburse in 4 diferrent directions and re-group at the next block; leaving the black clad A-Holes to be dealt with by the police.

@leftofcentre You're either with us or your against us! G Bush.

Clearly you pretend to obfuscate the issues with your username and fake posturing about peaceful protesters having known about violent protests. You obviously knew about violent protests before they happened, I guess you should have been thrown in jail for that knowledge.

"leftofcentre" is a coward and a collaborator and is simply trying to discredit anyone who doesn't agree with him. If he were a leader, it would undoubtedly be as a dictator who disallowed any dissent on pain of jail and/or violence!

A leftofcentre-esque epiphany for sure ...

Gosh, it's all so true. These evil, nasty, foul anti-democratic jackbooters could have just joined the status quo and carried on meekly, tacitly, implicitly supporting peeing on the poor, closing schools and hospitals, denying dental care for anyone who isn't rich, speculating property prices up so high that no one but the rich can own a home in Vancouver, lying about everything, and selling the province and the country to the world, but no, NO, they had the audacity, the foul, nasty no doubt commie-based audacity to damage a few dollars worth of the insured property of a non-Canadian multibillion dollar corporation!

GASP!

Saint Dorothy preserve us! What's next? Giving the finger to the prime minister!?! Spitting on the sidewalk?!?

Lord save us, it's the end of the world for sure.

Adults in age, children in performance

What, l wonder, was accomplished by "revolutionaries" who masked themselve in black in order to act out their fantasies of bravery by trashing unguarded plate-glass windows.

In their eyes, I guess, it's a step up from their earlier protests of smashing school windows.

IMO, here was a legitimate case for the use of the Taser.

What a debate

I know that many people hate the methods of the black block protesters, and I'm not a fan either.

However, many people who hate those methods today, especially young people, will be singing a different tune in the future once the full scale of indebtedness and corporate financial obligation, as well as the shrinking of the tax base from retiring baby boomers and weak corporate taxes, is upon our government.

Imagine a medical system with surgery wait times many, many times longer than even now, way more user fees, and awful service. Imagine paying four times more on your electrical bills. Imagine stagnant wages, but prices having skyrocketed. Imagine having to pay endless service fees to send your kids to a private government subcontractor school, meaning no money for college, just so that that business can bank on 50-student classes. Imagine never owning a home, in Chilliwack, because the banks aren't lending without a ridiculous down payment and the prices are too high to ever pay off your mortgage with your crappy pay.

Would a future like that afford you enough anger that you could, for instance, smash a window? I hope not, but then, with this mountain of obligations flying at us, who cares about some silly punk-rock ninjas breaking some glass? That's a mole hill.

ME2 ...

So, a minor instance of damage to insured corporate property and you think a warranted response is an extremely violent physical assault that may very well lead to heart attack and death?

Well, aren't you just a lovely representative of the finer points of the Canadian ethos and democracy. Power to the Property; piss on the people. Way-to-go ME2!

LOL.

More on violence and non-violence 1

John Greg helps make clear the choices for "the resistance movement", whatever one thinks of violence, aye or nay: Make "non-violent" resistance then effective or clear the field for what WILL be other alternatives. Content yourselves with an X alongside your favourite liberal or social democrat at the next election, stop the pretence of serious resistance, and leave it at that. Hunker down in your hidey-hole.

And I really do think that there are serious forms of non-violent resistance that can and need to be developed. And I think it will be better in the end for all of us if this "effective" non-violence resistance comes to dominate. But the operative concept here is NON-VIOLENT RESISTANCE. As in, it must actually be "resistance", not a side-step around it. But condemn the black blockers, for all my doubts about who they really are and their seriously confrontational tactics? Not a chance.

They are the only real resistance currently happening, like it or not. Condemn them for throwing a metal box through a a BANK window?! Be serious. And something, anything, has to be happening to undermine the too smooth and non-confrontational "non-resistance" movement that feels it currently owns all "resistance rights".

Sorry folks, but it ain't true, except perhaps only in your own cruising along, I'm alright Jack, going through the motions minds.

The non-violence resistance movement has to demonstrate that it has what it takes, and is prepared to take the status quo on in ways that actually challenge it, or it will be left behind as being just too nicey-nice and ineffective. (A conclusion that large numbers have already come to.)

And, believe it or not, I'm a guy who wants this non-violence movement to stand up and demonstrate its real stuff, if it has it, and to project a real alternative. 'Cause, certainly at this stage, I think it is what is really needed, not this so-called Black Bloc. Hopefully, its contribution will simply have been to get the "non-violent" Resistance movement off its ass.

But if this is not destined to happen, then there is no REAL alternative. And it is going to take a serious Exlax Movement like the Blacks to get the shit moving again, stinking the place up a bit maybe, but at least you know "something" is finally happening there in the old toilet bowl.

Besides, I really have always been of the view that all sides of the resistance movement "need" and in the end "will have" each other, if for somewhat differing reasons, and whether each likes it or not. And the role the "violence" crowd may in the end play here, is to make it clear to those of us who don't want this to be the dominant trend force in the building of a Resistance, to finally hunker down and do the task ourselves.

Continued further on...

More On Violence and Non-Violence 2...

Continuing from above...

This other "Black" trend is not just going to up and disappear of its own anyway, is my view. And my or your condemnation is not going to change that. It is going to have to be made irrelevant as a consequence of the success of another or other alternatives. (Even then, it is always really there in the toolbox, gurgling and fuming, just in case. The potential for violence is never far away from the surface of human affairs, ever, ever.)

And that we are still here discussing this discredits and gives the lie to this wishful thinking that violence has no effect. It's even clear here that it sure as hell does. Do you hear of anyone seriously still talking about the recent "love-in" at the Art Gallery?

What Art Gallery? ... is the typical response

Nope. Didn't think so. Like you folks, everybody is talking about the Black Bloc, even way out here in the boonies. And negative attention is better that no attention... or respect, anyday.

Violence works... in the absence of any other alternatives. And I ain't advocating violence... not yet. :-)

Love and Peace
Coyoteman

coyoteman

I think many of the non-violent protesters have enjoyed the prosperity of recent years, especially younger folks (less than thirty) who have never had to try hard to get a job, for instance, and who have children so infrequently that they are unaware of the pressure of that obligation also - a bunch of Peter Pans in Neverland, myself included ;-)

Well, it's been a nice run. As in chemistry, when a solvent cannot absorb a solute, pressure and heat must be applied to make a solution... so it is with the radicals and the moderates in this "Resistance" you speak of.

Isn't it awesome . . . .

how the Vancouver games have calmed the world'
Every newscast I hear or watch is about the games and this country's medal count.
Afghanistan, Iraq, the Taliban and Barrack Obama have all taken time off in respect to our games.
Well, at least it appears that way as every tv or radio newscast is fully involved with those Vancouver games.
Hey, maybe we should keep these games going all year round !

Adam

"I think many of the non-violent protesters have enjoyed the prosperity of recent years.." Adam.

I hear you, brother. Except I would say we all have more or less enjoyed these "prosperity years". For my pre-baby boom generation, especially those from the end of the last Great
Depression and "Great War", with a bit of a bumpy ride, through to the late 70s/early 80s.
And I agree, if I read you right, that most folks, including "the left", still can't entirely believe that Prosperity Capitalism is over or will not at least "soon" return.

There is a catching up with reality need going on here, especially with my class, with some having less and others (of both the younger and older breeding herd especially) more to lose, or at risk from "adventurism". And hope is still springing eternal-, that it will all right itself without a fight.

It's just that my particular life has been a kind of ongoing war with the system. Fighting has simply been integral to it, here beneath the surface, there breaking out into open warfare again. (Though its actually better now that I'm retired.) So, I have come out of the period with fewer illusions... I think. :-) lol

My concerns mostly arise right now, out of observing the resurgent "difficult" times, with their echo of my own life, effecting my grown children and their families.

Nonetheless, your piece was an interesting set of observations, from another perspective.

Gandhi changed the world without violence

Enough said.

Phhhh

Give it a rest Left of center.

A few busted windows from an Amercan and a North Vancouver girl.

Stop the presses!!!!!