Bull Crap Mr. Harcourt

Salt Lake City 2002 deficit $1.2 billion

Athens 2004 deficit $12 billion

Turin 2006 threatened bankruptcy 2 months before their Games and have still not tallied their total losses

Beijing 2008 a $40 billion+ farce

Vancouver 2010 into overruns for $6 billion+

London 2012 already into overruns for $22 billion+

Not one of these cities has reported a proportionate return respective of tourism or foreign capital investment even close to the tax money sunk into an event that for at least the last ten years has used a broken business model.

Just this week it was reported Greece is in extremely dire economic straits. In 2004, right after their Games ended Greek Prime Minister Costas Karamanlis revealed that the country's deficit jumped more rapidly and higher than all other European countries. It shot up 4 times its projected level and twice the legal limit allowed for European Union member countries.

As a result, bond-rating agency Standard & Poor's dropped the country's debt-rating outlook from "stable" to "negative" blaming "an accelerating loss of fiscal discipline" partly related to the Games. They also reported Greece's fiscal position is the weakest of any major European economy.

Karamanlis placed the blame squarely on the Olympics.

Standard & Poors dropped Vancouver`s credit rating long ago `because of the Olympic Athletes Village boondoggle.

Paying three times the cost for infrastructure under an unforgiving Olympic timeline is a scam lazy politicians foist upon unsuspecting taxpayers time after time. If BC politicians were smarter, less corrupt, and worked harder they could have built everything for at least a third less the cost and had money left over to house and feed the homeless.

So please Mr. Harcourt, explain how Vancouver is going to make this work.

You still regard the Olympics like you did when you were a child.

Grow up.

There is however a solution to this gargantuan mess.

Send VANOC back to Olympic sponsors and tell them to pick up the slack.

Olympic sponsors are making off like bandits while Canadian taxpayers hold the bag.

kind of whacked-out

ideas about what "citizens can enjoy". I should be on the hook for 2.8 billion bucks for a subway and convention centre I may use several times a year, if that?

I could have put 2.8 billion bucks into a hell of a lot of other things with more direct and lasting positive impact.

We ain't all rich here in Vancouver Mikey, and it's going to take a lonnng time to squeeze us all out. Be prepared for a struggle to match.

Like we should listen to Harcourt

Harcourt?

This was an elected NDP (and I'm embarassed I voted for him back then) that was willing to clear cut the Clayoquot Sound. I'll never forgive myself for that error.

Now, he declares the Olympics "are well worth it".

Anyone who would beieve anything he says ... is dreaming in technicolor.

World class

I agree with "If you are world class you don't say it". The corollary is that "if you are classy you don't say it".

I used to have a bit of respect for Harcourt. Now I think he's resorting to boosterism. That's the trick about being introduced to privilege. You develop a taste for it and forget your principles.

...

"Former premier comes out swinging against naysayers, says billions invested will pay off."

Yeah, but pay off for who?

For the Faithful

For the Faithful, Mike Harcourt was even worse than Gordon Campbell. He was too optimistic for an NDP premier. He was, and still is, upbeat about things. This is not what the Faithful want. They want doom and gloom.

Mike makes some excellent points but they will be lost on the Faithful Class Warriors. They can't see anything good in life, only bad. And they get passed by for it and get even more angry and bellicose.

Canada Line.....

" I should be on the hook for 2.8 billion bucks for a subway and convention centre I may use several times a year, if that?"

Takuan, the Canada Line was funded 2/3 by the feds. I live in the area and ride it all the time. It is very convenient and fast and much easier than driving downtown. I don't drive downtown anymore, I ride the Canada Line, which is kind of why it was built. City Hall to YVR is like 20 minutes door to door. Zip to Richmond for Chinese food? Piece of cake and no bridge traffic to worry about. You should try it, it is fast and convenient. The stations are always busy and many new businesses are popping up around them. But I guess small business are bad for the Faithful.

Canada Line...

The Canada line is a great addition, but besides that, its all BS. $6 Billion is a lot of money. What else could have been done to improve the lives of everyone in BC? Should the foundations for a fair and successful society and economy have been laid? I don't see how the Olympics are going to place BC in a position to overcome numerous shortcomings. Example, Child poverty is at 22% (ish) - but this is a doom and gloom view. 78% of kids are great, there I being positive. Go Canada!

Why Should We Care What Mike thinks?

I always liked Mike. He's been pretty quiet for years now and he probably should have kept it that way.

Folks opposed to the Olympics aren't just ticked off with the way Vancouver tax dollars have been wasted. They're annoyed because tax dollars from all levels of government have been wasted. Harcourt is talking down to an awful lot of people in this interview.

Wake up and smell the coffee Mike. There are 'a large number of critics' (I"m one of them) If you really understood the issues you would know that. My opposition has nothing to do with feeling self-important but reading this interview gives the impression that you must think you're pretty important.

It's total farce to make comparisons to any international event that took place before 9/11 with any event taking place after 9/11. The entire security budget for Expo likely consisted of the members of the musical ride and some bouncers.

I'd like all you nay-sayers to just STFU

Three cheers for Mike, the best Premier this province has ever had, forced out only by the utter greed and ego of the Kingsway Mafia.

Really. What is to be gained at this point in time by bleating about your perceptions of inequity, cost and general schadenfreude regarding the Olympics?

Shouldn't you civic-minded folk turn your energies toward trying to help this expensive and world-facing exercise succeed? Why are you jumping on the anti-BC bandwagon?

To be Anti-Olympics right now is to be anti-BC. We need to make this work in our favor. SO much invested. SO much attention. If you try to draw the eye of the world toward your fucking complaints, that's what they will see. They are not coming to rescue you. The world will be impressed by the Pacific Jewel, not the decrepit hovel you negativists portray.

Really. For the next month, why not just STFU?

I really despise you negative people. You suck. Period. You don't get it. You are feeding some inner demon with your constant negative shit. Look in the mirror.. Why do you want your city and province to fail? Does it help you in some way? Ya maybe so you can continue to lament something. Lamenters unite. Lame-enters. Lame.

Unreal.

Mike, you wretched embarrassment you...

First Mike says:
""We're going to encourage new investment to come here. Green conservation. Renewable energy. Green building approaches. Green transportation."

Then Mike says:
""What is the cost?.... Six hundred million dollars for an improved highway to Whistler, [which is] the golden goose that lays a golden egg into our economy every year."

Can you hear yourself when you talk? Shutting down a perfectly viable rail link to Whistler that could have handled all our transportation needs to Whistler for a century? All in favour of spending 8 times as much on highway to nowhere that is still killing people at a ferocious rate? What's green about that? Haven't you ever heard of Zermatt and Val d'Isere where you can't drive a car to the resorts - instead you have to take a train? That doesn't seem to have hurt their ritzy status any.

Mike, first you say how bad it is that cities developed business centres that emptied every night as people fled to the suburbs, and then in the next breath, you champion a highway that was expanded only to develop the suburb of Squamish as a place to flee Vancouver to every night at 5:00.

I think that fall from your hot tub must have hurt you worse than some people think.

ecstaticist

"Shouldn't you civic-minded folk turn your energies toward trying to help this expensive and world-facing exercise succeed?"

I've got no time. I'm spending up to twenty hours a week beyond my job volunteering on the board of a small extended care home in Richmond and a social housing project in South Van that have been decimated by funding cuts - I'm trying to help find resources for major repairs and upgrades while keeping jobs and reducing the tax burden.

I don't see you helping me. All I see is you (and a few people like you) plugging your ears and shouting "La-la-la, I can't hear you!" and then stamping your foot when we won't go away.

Go enjoy your Olympics. 90% of the money's been wasted already - a few more bucks won't make any difference. I'm going to keep protesting as little I'm able, not for Vancouver's sake - she's a corpse already - but to get the word out to other cities thinking of supporting these nefarious crooks in the IOC and their scam-baiting associates that the Olympics aren't worth having in your city - the cost is too high. It would appear that media and people around the world are starting to get the message. And they're going to continue coming to the Olympics, if only to see the truth for themselves, in between watching the medals ceremonies on TV in their hotel rooms.

We're paying a heavy cost here in BC, but you don't want to look at it. You and your ilk didn't want to look at nasty things like "costs" in 2005 when we voted, or in 2003 when the bid was proposed, or in 2006 when the overruns and business failures were happening or in 2009 when the poor were being evicted. And you don't want to look now. So, when DO you want to look at the price we're paying in money, livelihoods, even lives? Or are you just going to run away from everything?

Go enjoy your Olympics. I'm not out to change your mind because you can't help being a Pollyanna who's addicted to a different drug than the junkies on the DTES - you're addicted to the drug of escapism. And I can only pity you like I pity them.

Looks like Mike is "all in"

And why wouldn't he be? Correct me if I'm wrong, but Mike has always been game for compromise in his political career.

This isn't 1986, though, Mike, and this isn't expo. Like you said, this is a much bigger, higher intensity event. God willing it is as successful as possible, but it is going to be a lot more expensive than expo, and there are a few problems regarding the aftermath of such expenditure today.

Corporate taxes are at record lows, and the government is getting fleeced through a steady accretion of corporate sweetheart deals like the various PPP's, cheap sell-offs of viable assets, and, of course, the "independent" power projects with their free leases on public land that only receive financing if the government agrees to buy their overpriced electricity. Oil and gas exploitation could mean additional revenue streams in the future, but the huge discounts on royalties and weak environmental standards mean few benefits, especially if we're on the hook for environmental cleanups (we will be). And just try to roll any of these rip-off deals back, and you'll run into something else you didn't have in 1986: NAFTA.

Add to all this the wildcard of the strange economic twilight zone in America, where they continue shedding jobs and printing money, but the dollar, and prices, remain relatively static somehow and markets are "recovering." What will happen if the bubble pops?

The bottom line is, Mike, a new lottery ain't gonna pay for this shit!

Game plan to get there - Harcourt on Olympics

A thoughtful article.

what Mike doesn't say

Mike was a chief naysayer of Expo 86. Rewriting history are we?

Mike also likes to play up the role he played in stopping the freeways from cutting through the downtown and Point Grey. There were over 250 organizations working together to stop the freeways coming into Vancouver. Harcourt's role is to be questioned.

Mike also won't talk about his role in defeating a long time and very good constituent focussed NDP MP, Bob Prittie, in 1968. He was a Liberal then and perhaps still is.

Harcourt talks down to those who speak of costs and seems to want you to believe that costs have been the focus of the Games discourse. We have had benefit hype since 1998 with the most unbelievable reports suggesting as much as $20 billion from the Games, this figure continues to be downgraded since Gordon Campbell's 1st Edition of Economic Impacts to $1 billion. However, even the federal government recognizes that economic impacts are not benefits in its Federal Hosting Policy.

It's too bad the interviewer didn't ask about the
Athlete's Village and the commitments, monetary, made and paid by the city for this venue and the other venues in Vancouver. Just what is the city of Vancouver on the hook for?

Another impact from the Games, the loss of revenue from the thousands of parking meters during the Games and the fact that 1/3 of city staff have been working on the Olympics and these costs are being incorporated into accounts not identifying these costs to the Olympics.

Mr. Harcourt was once one of Vancouver's social reformers but now has settled for a position within the privilege class of Vancouver. How many tickets did he receive for his endorsement of the Games.

Many have written about the benefits of Expo 86 and Harcourt talks about Vancouver only. When the rest of the province weighs in to the conversation the response is that Expo 86 meant nothing to them in terms of business or interest in their communities and like the 2010 Games.

As far as the impact 86 had on the redevelopment of the former fair's land on False Creek North...well one can see a large portion of the eastern end still not developed after 24 years and when one calculates the number of housing units created over those years it works out to less than 200 units per year. Hardly a significant development or benefit.

Expo 86 has done a great

Expo 86 has done a great damage to the Interior of BC, with businesses losing and going broke, because nobody came and the locals went to Vancouver.

We've lived in Vancouver from 1955 to 79 and for the first 10-15 years it was a great place, but by the mid 70s it was becoming a dump.

Now, I haven't been back for 22 years and my wife for 30 and when we see the skyscape of the city on TV, we shudder what a "worldclass" dump for humanity it has become. Never want to go there, or even see it on pictures.

Harcourt was a poor apologist for ruling classes all his life and his fall must have damaged his head even more.

The Olympics are no longer a sporting event, but an advertising racket for some of the most disgusting corporations.

We're paying and will be paying for this showbiz extravaganza for ever, with absolutely no benefit to real people.

Ed Deak.

rav-canada line costs

wilf and zalm

Here is the rundown of public or quasi public contributions for the Canada Line:

Govt Canada $450 million
Govt BC $435 million
Translink $334 million
Vancouver $ 29 million
YVR airport $300 million

TOTAL $1.548 billion

remaining amount from so called private source...but just who did SNC Lavalin borrow from to pay for their share of the Private Public Partnership.

It was reported back in the heady days of the Canada Line that both the Quebec Public Pension Plan and BC Govt Employees Pension Plans were the "private" dollars behind SNC Lavalin's financial contributions through their investment arms which incidently are suppose to be at arms length from government policy. Hmmm...

ecstaticist

Put down that Olympic Koolaid you and your boy Mikey are sharing and consider...

There's absolutely nothing that this Games can do "succeed" by having "naysayers" jump on board with you and Harcourt waving the Coca Cola Canada flag.

We taxpayers are screwed by this corporate branding bonanza and we need naysayers to voice that side of the story.

What's unreal is that so many NDP hacks and even past Premiers like Harcourt and Clark have actually bought into this money-losing corporate charade, simply because they think it would be really fun and cool to see Canada win gold on home ice. They cloak that pride in nonsense-speak about economic benefit, infrastructure, exposure to the world, blah blah blah....

No Koolaid for me thanks.

Two billion dollars for the Canada Line.

Actually Mr. Harcourt, according to documents in the Susan Heyes(remember her Mr. H, she was a Cambie St. merchant screwed over by the Canada Line) successful lawsuit, the cost of the Canada Line was put at $2.5 billion.

What what is more, we built a white elephant because for a billion dollars less we could have built a much longer LRT line, with a larger capacity!

Mr. Harcourt, you are a shameless one time Vancouver mayor and Premier, who has grossly inflated your importance. Retire and go away somewhere and shut up.

At least former Premier Van der Zalm is fighting for the little people, by fighting against the HST.

Harcourt you are a bore and let us have done with you!

@plwg

Sources have told Grumpy that there are also now over seas banks involved with the finacing and that they have not been included in the original cost estimates. There has been some fancy finacing with the BC Governemnt, SNC Lavalin and ?

Remeber the BC government loaning SNC money?

As the costs for the subway rose, finacing became tricker and unless there is a forensic audit of the project, the publuic will never know the true cost.

ecstaticist

"I'd like all you nay-sayers to just STFU"

Gee, why don't you take your own advice and don't be a naysayer to all the social problems that your party has exacerbated over the last 9 years?

Why don't you stop watching Belarus vs Norway long enough to lend the homeless a hand?

Instead of being a naysayer when it comes to child poverty, why not donate the $500 a day it costs to party at Molson House and instead help out a single mum in your neighbourhood?

But no, you'd rather bitch and complain that the poor are beyond help and any money we divert from partying to help them would just be a waste of money, unlike partying.

For the record

Don't like the vibes coming from this guy either. Wouldn't buy a political platform from him...nor a five-ring circus neither.

Booster for sale!

Iv'e met the man and he is all rhetoric, no time for answering questions, except with motherhood statement; likes the sound of his own voice!

Still a politician!

Mike, what has happened to

Mike, what has happened to you? You must be having a brain fart. Is your memory starting to fade? I do remember when you became Mayor and that was after Expo was awarded to Vancouver. You were against Expo but accepted it grudgingly. Oh, I see now, you being a lawyer; to fudge the facts, create a fog.

I'll STFU...

...if I can just get Vancouver to pay for this whole thing. But no, just like Expo 86 we'll get SFA in the "hurtland" but we still pay and pay and pay and.....

We are all spectators rather than participants

My five year old son loves to play sports and he is quite good. This year, the fees associated with Pitching Machine Baseball have quadrupled. They have quadrupled because the Provincial Government has stolen gaming money allocated for community sports, arts and other social profits. I believe the cost overruns of the Olympics and the cuts to child sporting programs across the province are directly linked. 975 Million for Security and still counting--The chain link fences with 24 hour security might be stopping "threats", but the real threat has become a reality. The IOC and apologists like Harcourt will turn a generation of children into big screen spectators, rather than active players. Drink the Cola.

Can't they see past the outskirts of Greater Vancouver

The "benefits" from these games will bearly more than a few thousand dollars outside of Vancouver. By the time they reach Kelowna there will be nothing left.

All the Tax payers of BC have paid for these game but they are affordable to very few.

What about the people in Fort Nelson, Fort St. John. There is absolutely no benefit to them but but millions of dollars from their taxes and from the revenues of the oil and gas industry are being spent on this farce.

The only real benefit for anyone in BC, and it is short term, is part of the service industry which can over charge for rooms, sandwiches and ice cream cones. No benefit for the businesses that are cut of from their supplies byr road closure.

It even seems that the laws of the IOC override the laws of Canada for the duration of the game. It is forgotten that IOC is an organization of overpaid Shysters who have more influence on our government officials than do the taxpayers of BC.

Mind you Gordo and his gang will be able to sip wine and rub elbow with a bunch of other shysters and then he will be able to tell us what a great event it was and how good it was for us. Not for me Gordy, I'm on a fixed income and cannot afford to stay in Vancouver during the games. The people that can most afford tickets get the best tickets in the house for free, wow am I excited to help these poor soles get to their 3rd or 4th Olympics with having to endure any out of pocket money.

Kudos to the most of the athletes that give their free time to train and complete and supply great entertainment but it would be nice if the average taxpayer could afford a premium event or two. And to the people in Central and Northen BC just wait for a year and then you will able to afford to go to Vancouver see how your 6 to 10 billion dollars is working for you. Watch the potholes in the roads on your travels and remember if you have to come down via air ambulance for specialized medical procedures you will have to make your way home at your own expense (most cases).

The Groundhog...

Old Tyee is really out to challenge our sensibilities clearly, first with more centre-right from Glavin, and the same from this guy. I think I'll join the groundhog for six more weeks. :-) Clearly a more sensible fellow.

It is sad ...

when politicians and ex politicians don't know what a billion dollars is worth or where it comes from. Apparently Mike would rather BC have little more than a week of games than say, daycare for 200,000 kids for 10 years, or 400,000 university degrees paid for, or 140,000,000,000 trees planted, or 8,000 low cost housing units, etc. etc. Mike and the like minded Mr. Harper, who has spent over $10 billion on a offensive war, cannot differentiate between the needs of the country and what they want personally.
And for those who think that these games should be supported because they are a done deal. Do you support the destruction of our salmon stocks because that is a done deal?

Our roads in the Interior

Our roads in the Interior are falling apart, the ore trucks are cutting grooves in them, without repairs, apart from come crack fillings.

Schools are closing down, the arts and sports programs have been decimated, the teachers' 2% salary increases are loaded onto the local school boards, big business is forcing people into part time jobs, poverty, sickness and homelessness is growing, businesses are closing down, but "we're welcoming the world" for a couple of weeks.

What world? Well at least a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of 1 % of the world.

And they call this racket "games" ?

Ed Deak.

corporate olympics

I was born in downtown Vancouver and I don't consider myself a "naysayer" so much as a guy who can call bullshit when I see it...

Mario's Gelati

Another example of the destruction being wrought on local business by the Olympics.

http://www.straight.com/article-286257/vancouver/marios-gelati-owner-threatens-sue-city-over-olympic-street-closures

HANG HIM HIGH

We have a former NDP Mayor who can actually say something positive about the possibilites the Olympics present for this province and everyone from the left wants to HANG HIM HIGH. No wonder everyone else in this country calls us the looney left province.

I actually was quite surprised to hear this come from Mr. Harcourt's mouth, seeing as he is NDP. But to hear the venom against the man from the same leftist people here, all i am left to wonder is does anyone in this province enjoy anything?????? lol

"No wonder everyone else in

"No wonder everyone else in this country calls us the looney left province. "

It would be more honest to say they think of us and our immediate neighbour as the "looney Right" part of the country.

"all i am left to wonder is does anyone in this province enjoy anything"

Enjoy? Sorry, too busy fixing the problems you create.

One wonders if Mike will be

One wonders if Mike will be endorsing the HST and the fuel taxes as good for BC as well. The day he fell off his deck and damn nealy drowned some water must have gotten to his brain. He was lucky the medical system of the day kept him alive and he got all the therapy he needed to recover. Don't fall off your deck again Mike because Gordo has stipped a lot of services so badly the folks now have to wait. The circus is a big drain on us lower waged or retired folks who keep seeing large amouts of money going to real important things like hauling snow. giving away tickets to"important folks" wonder if Mike got some free tickets as he is such a supporter

Politicians

Politicians today are a bunch of liars that perfect the art of deception to further their personal agendas. These Olympics prove that.

The voters of the province were not consulted in the referendum on the Olympics, just voters in Vancouver but it's all the citizens of the province that'll have to pay for it for generations to come. Sweet deal for the IOC, VANOC, Campbell and his friends.

The only people that'll benefit from these games are the corporations and the people they pay off to get these games off the ground.

The saddest part is the way these politicians can and do manipulate the public getting them fighting and arguing among themselves. It's the perfect distraction while they do their dirty deeds.

The only good result of these games would be total failure. The athletes would be collateral damage if this happens and they don't deserve that. But failure would open the eyes of citizens from other cities and countries that are asked to host one of these financial boondoggles.

I have lived in 4 countries,

I have lived in 4 countries, under every known ideology burped up by the last century, fought and was wounded in WW2 when I was 17, sentenced to death by the nazis at 18, for "high treason", but saved by the end of the war, then sentenced to the gulags by the commies, "for high treason" but they didn't catch me.

Yet still don't know what the hell the "right" and "left" wings of politics are supposed to mean?

Nothing logical, for certain. When the faithful believers run out of childish arguments, they call everybody a "leftie", which in their warped imagination is supposed to be at the level of a child molester.

So, what and who is a "leftie" kiddies, what is the definition and why is it any worse than a "rightie" ?

Ed Deak.

Vancouver Olympics - Made in China

People stop bitching about the Canada Line costs. This is just a small fraction of the money that was spent on the Olympics. And in my opinion it was a must.

Canada is 25 years behind! Europe when it comes to public transport. People in this country are born with a car attached to their ass. It is ridiculous.

In any big city in Europe you can use public transport and it is well organized and serves the PUBLIC. I wish Canada would follow but people in North America still think about one person only. Me, me and me.

I am mad about the Olympics as the money was mismanaged and officials lied to the public. It is actually insulting that our politicians treat us tax payers as little kids who need to be told what to do.

I am also mad about the many gifts that are made in China and the American bus company that was hired to transport spectators.

If you want to be mad about something then be mad about that and not the Canada Line. Where is your pride people?

I'm a non Canadian - immigrated here many years ago and I say it is sad that even the red mittens were made in China. In a sense I feel shame that we as a country couldn't produce something where the label says 'Made in Canada'. Instead we gave the work to another country. We could have given work to people in this country but no we wanted cheap labour.

We could have hired bus companies in Canada that are Canadians but no we had to ask the big brother on the South.

The Olympics are here but there is nothing Canadian about it. Mr. Harcourt seemed to miss on that one. Everything is made in China.
The only thing that is Canadian are the tax payers.

Give us what we need

""What is the cost? Two billion dollars for the Canada Line. Six hundred million dollars for an improved highway to Whistler, [which is] the golden goose that lays a golden egg into our economy every year. A quadrupling in size of the convention centre."

It's too bad that what we really need is more locally-grown food, more buses, and more affordable housing. All three of the 'improvements' mentioned rely on the incredibly carbon intensive tourism and travel sector and a reliance on outside visitors. I see no reason to bet the farm on that sector doing anything but shrinking and I have to say the "Let's be Monaco West" mantra is wearing thin fast.

From hewers of wood to flippers of burgers and makers of beds isn't progress is it? I'd hate to think we are being led by politicians of so little vision. Tell me what B.C. looks like fifty or a hundred years from now, not how it appears in ten, and then I will start to believe the 'powers-that-be' have a plan that's proactive rather than reactive.

can you believe this shit?

http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Anti+Olympic+activists+plan+massive+disruption+opening+Vancouver+Olympics/2528970/story.html

I hope they are successful

I hope they are successful in disrupting things. Down with the games. I hate this corporatism as well. Down with corporatism and corporate welfare.

Another reason to protest.

Ohcanada says, "People stop bitching about the Canada Line costs. This is just a small fraction of the money that was spent on the Olympics. And in my opinion it was a must." Yep its all for Vancouver because they needed the infrastructure and the rest of us pay in reduced services. We should be happy that our tax dollars are spent In Vancouver. Oh the herd instinct when governments give us bread and circuses. And they can't tolerate the protests. Oh dear I should feel bad.

GWest, I'll not let it offend me.

Willie my man........

Would have served a far more useful purpose were something built out to the Tswassen ferry terminal for the increasing volume in walk-on traffic, and (as noted by the Suzuki Foundation) had some funds been put into improving the rail link to Whistler instead of a boondoggle highway.

Ed (Fiat Lux)

Observant as usual, Ed! Too bad that the average BC'er, living as they do mostly in the lower mainland, just don't give a damn about anything outside the LML.

you're dreaming Mike

I agree with Ed, that Expo 86 did nothing for the average citizen in Vancouver, or elsewhere.
It has been no benefit that real estate prices skyrocketed once the expo land developments started to advertise in China.
It helps nobody if we get classified as a great place to vacation. (except the miserable hospitality industry).
And like it or not snarling traffic so that some yuppies can stroll along the waterfront, is hardly justified.
As usual I vote NDP but shake my head at some of their policies.
Mike was good at compromises, but look what Gordo has accomplished by sticking to his goals!
Being a "goodie" is not the answer Mike!

Steppeup

I have news for you. Mike has never been left and there were a lot of people that thought he was a liberal even as Premier. I'd be very surprised if he is left now. Either way he's wrong on the Olympics for the province. If you did an honest cost benefit analysis the numbers would show it. If you did one for outside of Vancouver it would be damning for any of those politicians who now are "going along for the ride". Got that Carole!

Goodies and The Street....

"As usual I vote NDP but shake my head at some of their policies." Alive.

Well, I don't vote NDP anymore, but I do shake my head all the same.

"Being a "goodie" is not the answer Mike!"

Yup.

Don't vote. Take to the streets. Tiume to kick some ass..

Their Olympics

I felt like Expo 86 was my Worlds Fair. I feel like this Olympics is IOC and VANOC's party, not mine. They are arrogance personified. Plus, the security is ridiculous.

That's my opinion. We will soon know, what the deficit will be.

comparing the Olympics to Expo...

...is ridiculous. The successful event was 7 months long and affordable to all; this fiasco is a sham, and wrong in so many ways it is now laughable.

The Olympic athletic events most of us do enjoy are merely the flashy lure we have been baited with; these so-called 'legacies' are not gifts. They aren't bonuses we derive from hosting the Olympics. They are mere expenditures we made at a time when we did not need them and could not afford them, at least not if prioritizing our needs was of any 'accounting' concern.

Harcourt was never much of a thinker or a visionary, and here is more proof. His name being linked with the NDP and these comments do not bode well for Carol James and her gang. Financial mismanagement is written all over this project.

The Positive

On the positive side, if this event causes our population to grow, we
1.will get more Starbucks , 7-11's and MacDonald's
2.the price of land, homes, condos and rent will continue to rise, Owners and landlords will be able get more money and raise rents further.
3.Tiffany's will be able to open another store as the elite class will continue growing.
4with so many more people sharing the tax burden, taxes will go down.
5. All the undesirables with low incomes will have to leave, freeing up more opportunities for developers.
6. As the gap between the" haves" and the" havenots" continues to grow, the haves will have a more significant"lower class" upon which they can gauge their success.
The list goes on.....

Myths About Landing the Olympics

Here is an article about Olympics' costs. This is just the 1st part.

Myths About Landing the Olympics
By Stefan Szymanski_Sunday, October 4, 2009

For the rest, go here.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/01/AR2009100103891.html

LONDON -- So you didn't get the Games, Chicago. Relax. It's not as tough a break as you think. We Londoners should know. Watching the festivities in Copenhagen on Friday, I couldn't help but recall the International Olympic Committee's announcement in Singapore in 2005 that, to the astonishment of the world, our city had beaten Paris for the 2012 Summer Games prize. Four years later, the Parisians have come to terms with their loss, while U.K. taxpayers have learned to curb their enthusiasm for an event that is currently estimated to cost $15 billion, though many expect that price tag to go even higher. For the triumphant Rio citizens, there are many lessons about the burdens of hosting that you will have to learn for yourselves, but here's a head start.
1. The Olympics will pay for themselves.
Nope, they never do. The Olympics have always needed a public subsidy, but in recent years the cost has ballooned as the number of cities vying for the big prize has grown. This is no coincidence. More competition means brasher promises and bigger purses. Representatives of national Olympic committees, governments and other interest groups are fond of saying that the revenues from ticketing, broadcast rights, sponsorship and merchandising will cover the operating costs. This leaves out the cost of the Olympic infrastructure -- the stadium, velodrome, aquatic center and the rest. London is building a 12,000-seat handball arena. Most Brits don't even know what handball is. Add to that all the transportation that has to be created or enhanced to get an estimated 250,000 fans into and out of the Olympic site quickly and safely. Operating costs are the tip; infrastructure is the iceberg. Moreover, much of this infrastructure has limited value after the Games and will never generate much income. In 2007 the U.K. government announced that the real cost of the Games would be closer to $15 billion than the $4 billion they had initially promised. Olympic accounting is shrouded in mystery, but since Los Angeles in 1984, there have been no cases where the Games can show a net profit.

Stuck in the middle

It is to much like whining to put this large scale event down, we see it to often in BC. Coffee shop enviromentalists, If it isnt negativity towards governments past and present then its towards forestry or something that is an easy target, Just let the naysayers whine, you cannot please them, no matter what you do. Mike Harcourt good for you, I like your positive outlook. Interestingly enough the three Olympic committes have a knack of making themselves look like fools, foot in mouth disease, As for the debt, well I believe one must spend money to make money, Lets see what comes of this Federal/Provincial 17 Day Circus

samu.....we paid for that

samu.....we paid for that "affordable" Expo here in the Interior. Expo cost me about $5,000 and I never went near the bloody thing.

Many businesses, especially in the tourist trade, went bellyup and even the supermarkets were losing.

Ed Deak.

Who to Congratulate? Who's Legacy?

1998

January 5 – Premier Glen Clark meets with Arthur Griffiths and Rick Antonson, President and CEO of Tourism Vancouver, and announces the province’s support for the games.

"The new edition of left-wingers had seen how popular Expo 86 was with the public, and the NDP leader of the day revelled in big projects. Premier Glen Clark, riding high, jumped on board the bid in March 1998 after Antonson and Griffiths paid him a visit. He gave the group $50,000. "

http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:OWx3R9xvjBkJ:www.vanmag.com/News_and_Features/How_the_Olympics_Came_to_Vancouver%3Fpage%3D0%252C1+glen+clark+expo+86&cd=15&hl=en&ct=clnk

"There is still much a lot of work left to do, says B.C. Premier Glen Clark, including improving the road between Vancouver and Whistler."

Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/1998/12/01/olympicsI981201.html#ixzz0ejtzJEwh

"I still support the Olympics, having voted "yes" in Vancouver's February 2003 referendum. Even if only for the job creation, economic development and international profile, they are well worthwhile."

http://billtieleman.blogspot.com/2009/10/2010-vancouver-winter-olympics-should-i.html

Ignatieff on the Olympics and Vancouver

New York Times

"We Canadians are immensely proud of our country, but we try to be soft-spoken about it, so we aren’t looking for the Vancouver Games to be a grandiose exercise in self-promotion. Instead, we want to demonstrate that we’re a people the world can count on. We’re proud that we brought in the Games on time and on budget. The venues are ready. ...The Olympics let us tell the world: Ask us to do a job, and we get it done right."

"Visitors will take the Canada Line, Vancouver’s spiffy new light rail system, instead of taxis."

"The Games will also mark Vancouver’s emergence as a global city. Canadians hope that visitors arriving in Vancouver for the first time will be awed by the city’s sublime mountain and ocean setting, its diverse yet integrated population and its status as a multicultural metropolis facing out to Asia."

RAV line financing

Thans PWLG for the reminder. My files are gone since I turned over the pension portfolio to the new guy.

Which is where I got the information Grumpy alludes to. MacQuarries was in for $600 million originally, and the Caissse and BCIMC in for either $40 million or $60 million each. Then the Caisse dropped out, so BCIMC was persuaded to pick up their portion by what was described as a secret guarantee of return on investment which made lie of the P3 principle of the "private partner bears the risk". Then Macquarries dropped out when they ran into trouble in the general wind-down of credit markets, and thereafter the trail goes cold. It appears that the contract for the RAV line was in default at that point, and so someone (the province?) worked hard to write a new contract complete with ridership guarantees and financial penalties to Translink if they failed to provide enough revenue that were never in the old contract. This is only suspected because the contract was ostensibly signed with a new consortium called Protrans, and we are forbidden to find out what occurred under FOI because it's proprietary business information.

Even if we do have to pay the piper.

And, Oh Canada, there's a lot of good writing on this site about why the RAV line was very nearly the last choice we should have made for building rapid transit, except for the Olympic optics of it. Too expensive, too few riders, wrong direction, lack of developable real estate, contra to GVRD Livable Region Strategic Plan etc. etc.

Just start on Tyee home page at the top of the page, pick the "Topics" drop down and look under Transportation. More than half of the links in the last five years will lead you to the information you need to know.

And when you find it, be sitting down with a stiff drink and a box of kleenex. You're going to need it.

Thanks Zalm

As I said, with the Susan Heyes case it was revealed that RAV/Canada Line's true cost is somewhere about $2.5 billion, which is a figure also alluded to by the DoRAVRight Coalition.

The truth is we don't know the real cost of RAV because the details are secret.

What Gordo did do is give U-Passes to students at Langara college, which has flooded the Canada Line with students using cheap tickets.

Figure this:

U-Pass $25 a month which means it costs under a $1.00 a day to use transit.

If a student uses a bus then Canada Line to go to school and back, the portion allowed for RAV is under $0.50.

If the student uses the transit system more than going to school. the portion for RAV maybe as low as $0.20.

Here is the problem; TransLink have flooded RAV with students using cheap tickets but is the fares are apportioned properly, between bus and RAV,
TransLink is loosing its shirt on the deal!

RAV maybe crowded, but I'll wager it is not making money, unless TransLink has fiddled the U-Passes in favour of RAV, then it is the buses that are getting financially screwed.

http://railforthevalley.wordpress.com/2009/08/26/the-apportioned-fare-what-is-it-will-translink-do-it/

Oh yes.......................

RAV's costs are the direct costs only and doesn't include debt servicing and other annual subsidies.

Ha, ha, almost forgot, Susan Heyes got $600 thousand from TransLink and now every other merchant is suing TransLink for nuisance - the true cost of RAV rises every day!

Now Mr. Harcourt, applaud that!

So what if Glen Clark, or

So what if Glen Clark, or any politician of any hue have endorse anything ? Is that supposed to be a demand for "lefties" to shut up when seeing all the damage and waste for no logical reason ?

I'm still wondering what the hell a "leftie" is ?

Or what is there "realistic" in the support of the present crime wave of neoclassical economics destroying humanity and the Earth ?

Ed Deak.

Here's my laugh of the day

"We’re proud that we brought in the Games on time and on budget." Iggy's half right I guess and R/man thinks it means everything must now be peachy.

Honalulu Mugshot

Excellant idea Dr.A! I had a 8x10 glossy copy of dear Gordo's drunk driving mugshot but I used it on our Guy Fawke's effigy that year.... There's nothing saying that we can't flood the rest of the Province, outside of their precious protected sites, and get the word out! Too bad more forests and wildlife won't have that kind of money spent on their protection.... Stephanie, Northern BC

Olympics worth it

With all due respect Mike - you are only looking at Vancouver. The rest of us have had our budgets slashed and our services almost dissolved out here in the Heartland (read anywhere outside of Vancouver).

Vancouver voted for this expense - not us but Gordo is making us all pay for Vancouvers improvements once again.

I hope the Olympics is a hugely sucessful event so the DEBT will be smaller. I think this debt rightly (and more importanly legally) belongs on the heads and bankbooks of the citizens of Vancouver not small town BC. Gordo is killing our communities and now every budget cut is met by the same response "we have to pay for the Olympics somehow"! We can't aford to look after our elderly in a respectful and dignified manner, kids scholarships and sports programs are being cut or cancelled instead of supported and it is all to make Gordo look good. These criminal can't manage a budget yet our media keeps alive the false illusion that they can. I didn't vote to pay the Olympic BILL!

"Here we go round the prickly pear...."

I can't bear it anymore.....this mindless and silly salaam, salaam to the great flaming Doobie God - the incessant and truly feather-brained kowtowing of those who while children go hungry and the homeless die on our streets, bow to the Deviants whose twisted logic includes the irresponsible extravagance of trucking snow endless miles to melting mountaintops.

To witness the spoiled-child antics of this farcical charade is to watch the process of religious conversion unfold before your very eyes.

So praise ye of little faith, those who refuse to BELIEVE.... for the sanity of your voice of protest.... in a clearly insane world.

Well Stephanie, Thanks for the Thanks

But I must give the credit to the Powell River Persuader who mentioned the idea of having t-shirts made up that feature Gordo's mugshot.

That being said, I cannot see how the Olympic Poster Police can have any say over anyone having clothing with Charter of Rights and Freedoms-protected political expression of having Gordo's mugshot displayed on their person.

The Olympic Logo should have a sixth ring.

The Brown Ring.

To commemorate Gordo's contribution.

realistically, the Owe-lympic legacy

... may include an epistemological epiphany for recovering Reformers to finally shed their false faith in neo-liberal policies of wealth transfer from wage-earners and businesses toward global corporations.

Well, maybe after the Harper holidays:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJA80XiNjg4&feature=video_response
[coarse language warning]

Yes, Skywalker it's all

Yes, Skywalker it's all Campbell's fault - Kim Campbell.

Kim Campbell achieved historical fame as the first woman to become Prime Minister of Canada in 1993. Her term in office for the Conservative Party was short and she soon after became Consul General to Los Angeles, she begat Jean Chretien of the Liberal Party of Canada who became the new Prime Minister of Canada and he begat David Anderson who had won a silver medal for rowing in the 1960 Olympic Games, became the regional political minister for British Columbia, and later the Minister of the Environment for the Liberal Party of Canada, he is said to have refused NDP Premier Glen Clark any support for the new Vancouver Convention Centre. Since the plan was to build on the water this became a Federal issue. Glen Clark did give money for the Olympic BID after meeting Rick Antonson of Tourism BC and a sports enthusiast named Arthur Griffiths while Vancouver Mayor Philip Owen was onside too. Mayor Owen had succeeded Gordon Campbell before Larry Campbell became Mayor during which time Clark begat Dan Miller who just waited until the party begat Ujjal Dosanjh, who then quickly lost to Gordon Campbell of the Liberal Party of BC and a year later Larry Campbell became mayor of Vancouver. He voted for his plebiscite on support for the Olympics although he had earlier said that didn't support the Olympics. The people of Vancouver voted and a majority voted in support too. Two years later Gordon Campbell won another election retaining his job as Premier of BC. Two more years later and Larry Campbell quit as Mayor of Vancouver and became a Senator of Canada later that same year.

Glen Clark went on to be president of various companies in the conglomerate of his fellow East Vancouver raised buddie Jimmy Pattison. In 2008 Philip Owen was named a Member of the Order of Canada. Ujjal Dosanjh went on to be an elected member of the Liberal Party of Canada, Senator Larry Campbell has bought a condo in the Vancouver Olympic Village. Premier Gordon Campbell is still Premier in Victoria but lives in Vancouver and Avril Phaedra Douglas "Kim" Campbell, is quite happy and living in France.

Pass this on to the visiting press, let them read it and then give them a quick test to make sure they have it all correct.

planned distraction

"Back to the time of Rome at the peak of their empire historians at the time wrote about how as the empire got more and more corrupt it consciously funded more arenas, more sports stadiums, more gladiatorial events… as long as the people had a spectacle to invest their psychological worth and future in then they didn’t mind if they were becoming poorer, or over taxed, or being enslaved."

Alex Jones
February 6, 2010

Devilo

Businesses spend money to make money and in most cases they spend it wisely. Politicians spend money to buy votes and to placate their financial backers and in most cases not so wisely. Unfortunately the politicians are great at spending other peoples' money, that of the taxpayer, but not so quick to part with their own.

In the end, yes

There will be bills to pay. Libs, NDP, makes no difference does it. They are both on the same page when it comes to the Games.

As to what government is "worse" thats a matter of opinion. I have my reasons, you have yours. No point going round in circles, we've been there.

Its my religous holiday tomorrow, Super Sunday!
I'm taking the night off work, I've earned it.

Cheers for now

cranky.....It is true that

cranky.....It is true that politicians are spreading other people's money, but so are businesses.

Where do you think "their" money comes from, if not from the public?

Where do the multimillion salaries of executives, or the fancy office towers and offices, or the minimum wages of their employees, come from if not from the public. Or shall we say, stolen from the public's pockets.

An "investment" is a small loan the public has to repay endless times, forever. Investors don't bring anything, their purpose is to take and take and take.

I've been in business here in BC since 1957 and without monies coming from my customers and now in our pensions, we couldn't have survived, or survive.

But the customers must get their monies to pay businesses from somewhere else, which means that there are no "users who pay", but everybody pays for everybody else, for everything.

Benefits don't trickle down, but liabilities do/

The purpose of "globalization" is to spread the area of extortion and the killing fields.

Ed Deak.

Mikey - I can smell the Kool Aid on your breath.

Hey Mike - How is it that building a wider highway (the "golden goose"!) and building in infrastructure so that more cruise ships can come here is "showing the world about sustainability"?
Think about it Mikey. Listen to what you are saying. Are you that disconnected from reality?

I used to respect Mike Harcourt, but after this interview, where he talks out of both sides of his mouth - or at least out of two different orifices - I'm hugely disappointed in him. He makes no sense at all.

Billions sqandered - Really Mike? It's still worth it?

Let's see... from $178 million budgeted for security, to over $1 billion. Yup, that's money well spent.

Then there's the men-only ski jump facility and the luge facility in Whistler -- $90 million so that a few dozen elite athletes can hurtle down the hillside like fools. You can be sure the general public will never be able to use these.

And let's compare that $90 million to the $90 million the provincial government spent to buy a number of dive SRO hotels from slumlords at the height of the real estate boom. Not a single new living space added, and not what anyone could call proper housing - sub-standard transitional housing at best.

Yup, so we have a speed-skating oval in Richmond (should've been in Burnaby)that I know I'll never use, but will pay for. And there's that billion dollar highway, of course, to whisk the rich and famous in comfort to their $1000 a night penthouse rooms in Whistler.

I would have thought better of you Mike. But it seems you've sacrificed your conscience like everyone else to the flawed notion that the Olympics will spur an economic rennaisance. It won't, and a recent economic analysis proves it.

Not to mention........

........helicoptering snow in at $10,000 a pop!

Mike Is Right

I recall Mike wrote a letter to the International Bureau of Expositions in the early 1980's, as mayor of Vancouver, requesting the IBE turn down any application for a world's exposition in Vancouver.

Mike finally realized that Expo '86 was a boon for the city during the 6-month event and thereafter. Mike has finally matured.

Steppeup said: "But to hear the venom against the man from the same leftist people here, all i am left to wonder is does anyone in this province enjoy anything?????? lol"

Well at least Carole James is taking a page from Mike and attending two Olympic events!

Maybe Mike should listen to one of David Beers' heroes

By that I mean cultural icon Douglas Coupland.

Seems he has this to say about what's necessary for a 'healthy culture'.

To have a healthy culture you have to have stable health care financing and stable arts financing and stable sports financing, and if you don’t have that, your culture becomes a parking lot.

Of course I'd add a couple of other requirements but, given what BC and Canada look like today from the perspective of addressing social and cultural needs I think you'd have a hard time calling this place anything but A PARKING LOT

cue Joanie Mitchell

time for a mature, reasoned level headed response:

First: we must organize at a federal level and revoke the repeal of capital punishment in Canada. Then we must give Drunko and his friends a fair and public trial for treason and general malfeasance. Them, after finding them guilty, guilty, guilty in a court of law, drag them in chains to the most expensive olympic white elephant whereat a sturdy gallows has been erected (by unemployed construction workers) and stretch their collective necks in a public demonstration or real justice. After throwing the corpses to the dogs we can immediately repair back to Ottawa, re-ban capital punishment and get on with reconstructing our country. Oh hell, might as well fit in Harper and a few other traitors while are at it.

There you have it: a civilized, legal and sane approach. That is how true Canadians get things done.

For once we agree...

By that I mean cultural icon Douglas Coupland.
GWEST wrote...

Seems he has this to say about what's necessary for a 'healthy culture'.

To have a healthy culture you have to have stable health care financing and stable arts financing and stable sports financing, and if you don’t have that, your culture becomes a parking lot.
_________

I agree completely. And it's worth noting that Douglas Coupland has been a vocal supporter of the Vancouver Olympics. He even has an article in the official program.

EDITED...

"These guys, our grand and wonderful political and corporate leaders are and have been for many years enacting legislation, policy, and practices that don't just marginalize and impoverish us, they kill people -- or at the very least, put people directly in harm's way when they are at their most vulnerable."
SicPreFix

Many of us here will understand, brother. Wouldn't even be surprised if their was a modicum of agreement.

Hand in there. The water is just starting to come to the boil.Simmering.

Glen

Yep those are Coupland's words; he also suggests that, comared to the US, Canada is a socialist country....

The interview in the Sunday's New York Times Magazine and it's actually pretty funny...which for chunky Dougie (there's a photo of him in a heritage type Canada jacket) is something new.

On the other hand, I agree he left a couple items off his little list - but I think you covered most of the items I'd list about Dougie and his 'career'...

Cheers!

And yeah, seriously, 'stable sports financing'. He must have been a disappointed fan of Arthur Griffiths!

Doing Gordon Campbell

Mike had me rolling on the floor laughing. His impression of Gordon Campbell was right on. Same bullshit, same spin, same lies. Unfortunately, Mike, while you're good for a laugh, that's about all your good for. You had me fooled years ago with your nice guy demeanor but I'm wiser now. You and Gordon are cut out of the same cloth. I know who you are now, Mike. You've pulled your last scam on me.

Y'all have to remember......

....that ALL of the people who make such remarks as did Mike, DO NOT rely on the outcome of the Games for their incomes. They have nothing to lose...........

Harcourt and 2010

Well there is no snow as was expected in this El'Nino year and I don't support the games, never did and never will even though I am an NDP. Gordo is sure soaking up the freee publicity. This will probably help him in the next election, maybe he'll win again and really make BC a 3rd world place that spends money on luxuries rather than the future of our children.