And they wonder why...

...they are having trouble with funding with idiocy like "an "equity strategy' still in place. At least there was heated debate by my guess is that most of those who would have shot this nonsense down in flames have long since gone. Then again Carole blames the party inability to promote a vision last time around and,... gee whizz woman it was your job to do that. Much as I hate to give Luke another shot at the left, she has to go and along with her some of the misguided and useless MLA's still promoting the equity nonsense.

James isn't even last years

James isn't even last years news. The province was in free fall in the financial area, so why didn't the economy rank way up there? On the way out Ms.James, take a bunch of your advisors with you. Many of us still support the party but you are so out of touch with us.

time for a new approach

When it comes to amassing political fortunes and gaining power, honesty is not the best policy. It must be obvious that, with the on-going disasters at the polls, and the outcomes both federally and provincially, the NDP must become better liars.

No doubt education should be near the top of the list, but the outcome from focusing on education, whatever that means, won’t be felt for at least two generations. What’s worse, trying to link that to sustainability, in the face of primary resource collapse while, at the same time, trying to get business and labour to the table, is the wrong move.

The NDP need to borrow from the Libs and the Cons … promise the world and make sure those promises land at the feet of those with power and influence.

Hmmmm, on second thought … haven’t they tried that already?

Well, I guess the lies weren’t convincing enough. Where’s are the Canuck versions of Ronald Regan when you really need them?

No effing brains!

James get so few opportunities for a soundbite, and then she focusses on an issue that only is considered top priority by 3% of the electorate?
To me it proves she has no idea about how to promote her image or that of the party.
To make it worse she is consolidating her stand, while the sane members must be ready to form a new party!

Sustainability hot word at NDP convention

carol has no idea of what she is doing. Sustainability has become the catch phrase of losers.
bringing Sihota from the dead is going to destroy the party really fast.
Can't wait to see the NDP in the way of the Socred, Alliance and other useless luminaries.
Sihota cut the welfare, but didn't cut any of the waste brought on by his business buddies.
No wonder child poverty in BC is so high.
Carol and Sihota care about their pocket books.
NDP convention, what a waste of time.

Carole James/Moe Sihota...

Again, Carole James is past her "best before due date" politically and her negative ratings are higher than her positive ratings in the latest ARS. She comes across as a whiney and shrill school marm and the general public will continue to tune her out.

Wash, rinse, and repeat. Same with Gordo!

But James' political instincts are also questionable with her recruitment of Moe Sihota as party president. Unbelievable. Sihota was a staunch supporter of Glen Clark and Sihota's political shenanigans from the 1990's assisted the NDP dropping to an all time low of 13% in opinion polls.

James has just re-branded the party in a negative light and likely cost the NDP 5% in the polls with Sihota's presidency. It's akin to the Liberals appointing Bill Vander Zalm as party president. A political poison pill.

And James' statement in the Vancouver Sun is the penultimate eye-opener:

Yep.

Convention Comments

C'mon people where's your head at?, The NDP must change course and return to basics before any election. Sustainability?, what about the HST, the fact that BC has the highest rate of child poverty in Canada and the worst system of income support in Canada. To me more and more it looks as though I'll be voting Green next time.

Why did Carole make Education the #1 priority?

Because the BCTF ordered her to...

Commitment to what?

The word 'sustainability' is so meaningless now they may as well have made a commitment to breathing!

Current politics are not sustainable as common interests are ignored and demockery adds to growing low voter turnpout!

Rhea

I feel the same way about the Green Party. Your leader is an ex-Conservative and your policies all focus on how to make the world cleaner for the rich.

You support foreign takeovers of BC rivers and tax shifting from income to consumption which hurts the poor.

Elections for your party are nothing but trying to increase your treasury.

Green Party position on HST? Support the HST!

I've been critical of the BC NDP and was disappointed in Carole James speech - see my blog post below for reasons.

But the BC NDP solidly oppose the HST, as does the federal NDP - thank goodness.

Meanwhile, the Green Party is off in the weeds on the HST, supporting it but wanting a cut in the rate.

Here's their position federally, from their own news release:

"Asked whether the Green Party supports the HST, Erich Jacoby-Hawkins, Green Party Ecological Fiscal Reform Critic said, "We support the simplification of taxes to reduce costs of red tape, but do not support increasing the total amount of sales tax revenue. The government's HST proposal simplifies taxes but also raises them. We believe the HST rate should be lower."

And here's the BC Green Party position, also from a news release from Green Party Leader, Jane Sterk:

“Greens actually support combining the GST and PST but we also believe fundamental decisions like this ought to be made in the Legislature not by the Premier.”

The release continues: "In 2004 the Green Party of BC adopted a policy supporting a harmonized sales tax (HST) after consulting with small business organizations that said a harmonized tax would help them reduce costs and make doing business in BC easier. Support for the harmonized collection of the two taxes can be found in Green Book 2009 - 2013."

I hope Green Party members press both Elizabeth May and Jane Sterk to drop this ridiculous position and join the cross-party effort to defeat the HST here in BC, in Ontario and immediately in Parliament.

Who runs the BC LIberals?

I for one think that all this silly venting at Moe Sihota is pure bunk. Luke of course will make his attempt to show that it means the old Canwest allegations about the 90's are alive and well in the minds of the liberals. Moe has good political skills that if used in the background can work. It will take a leader who has some political smarts and sorry that ain't Carole. But "Green"? Give me a break!

Imagine how many folks with much less savory reputations than Moe's (assuming his is more than just racist stereotyping) work behind the scenes in the liberals. Who runs the BC liberals anyway? Any greedy corporate hack that's who.

The newest "Moe Moment"

"Let me put it this way. I am semi-retired and I have chosen to put aside that lifestyle and become a bit more active and the principal reason for that is I am a big admirer of Carole James, and I'll go back to my lifestyle after ... she is elected [premier]." (todays G&M)

Bad news Skywalker. Caroles not going. Although of course we know all politicians lie through their teeth so this could just be a diversionary tactic - you hope.

Skywalker

Who runs the Liberals?

Business writes almost every cheque they cash.

Anyone know of a single article by a business leader where he or she shows any concern for BC leading the nation in child poverty? Its a sincere question, I don't know of a single one.

Anyone spent time studying

Anyone spent time studying why Scandinavian economies embrace the free market with social justice? Does debate on this board always have to revolve around drivel using pedestrian terms one learns in political science 101.

Ask yourself this, or better yet go and study the process if you REALLY want to learn about a modern economy. A country like Denmark which has the highest level of unionization and no legislated minimum wage, and yet has one of the most flexible labor market with the lowest child poverty in the developed world. In other words you can be fired without much fuss and you don't end up flipping burgers for a 6 buck an hour training wage. Does the word flexicurity come to mind? Look it up and learn ...

In the real world you have to make compromises and that's why Gary Doer was an effective leader and premier. He knew how to speak and listen to everyone without hyperbole or pretense.

Hopefully for 2017 the NDP

Hopefully for 2017 the NDP have a new leader in BC. They can officially kiss 2013 off now. Carole is staying and Moe Sihota is now president like the BC NDP seems to be their own worst enemy so much of the time. It is worse than amateur hour a lot of the times.

Two years from now...

I don't believe James' new approach will succeed at all. All it will do is turn off NDP supporters and won't attract a single right-winger to the party regardless of how much she and Mike "let's boogie" Harcourt say nice things about Phil Hochstein in their speeches.

Ignorant Public

This merely displays the complete ignorance of the voting public, and shows how they cannot for the most part "think" past their freaking nose. It's getting so bad that the voting public ought to have to pass some sort of test to be able to vote.

The ONLY progress that has been made in the nations of the world has been through an educated populace. But as one poster observed here, the payoff takes a couple of generations, and so thanks but no thanks, we are only interested in nirvanna now.

And I defy a single environmental wienie to cough up the stats showing the effectiveness of Campbell's gas tax ('cause it sure as hell ain't a carbon tax). C'mon Suzuki -- show us what you've got! It's called "go big or go home".

doomed

as long as James leads the party they are doomed. She has nothing of substance to offer and under her the party has become a shadow, with out descernable policy. They can't even function as on opposition. The real opposition is a guy named Rafe Mair. they need to dump James and get a real leader. Gordon Campbell could get a monkey elected with her running against him...

Dear Carole

Carole are you reading anything of what the general public are saying? Its time to go!

carole will fail

I agree about Gary Doer, he walked that line don't forget he got very lucky. But with India and China rising, we have to compete but we cannot do that with 1950s style union mentality. We have to accept that 3rd world countries will increase their standard of living...and isn't that what we want? No. We want jobs for life, at a rate that will eliminate us from the competition.
We can kiss goodbye control of our oil and minerals to China and India. They have to buy in to gain profit to alleviate the high cost of doing business in Canada. We cannot have it both ways, a high cost and control of our resources.
James doesn't lead the NDP, union leaders do. For us to change we need unions as forward thinking as Denmark's, or we will not be able to compete. Simple. No income = no social justice. James affiliations are well known, and they will continue to alienate her. For the patriotic Canadian, there is no choice between opening the door to global business and rational cost control. The days of the $60,000/year floor sweeper at the mill are over, but we the people are not over it. Canadians don’t want to meet this challenge and the NDP will not change their old tune. The big businesses are eating us up because of this, and we are quickly losing control of our resources. The fat lady is warming up.

DavidN

In 2008 the Liberals received $5.1 million from business while the NDP received just $627,000 from unions. A number that represents about 21% of their income that year.

As for competing with India and China, if you think you can compete with low-cost labour by doing anything other than lowering your wages I'd be interested in hearing about it. Without the racism inherent in statements such as "we're smarter".

By the way, its the guys on the Right that thought it was a great idea to allow our resources to be sold to foreign companies.

Chicken Little Politics...

The NDP keeps running itself up the same blind alley, at least if it's intention is really to change the social order. Which it is not, of course, and I know that. It is to get elected in order to occupy the government seats, and go through the motions.

And no, the two are not the same thing, or even two separate aspects of the actually meaningfully changing the social order and securing formal governance process. Nor is it even possible in this bullshit rigged, ruling class veto controlled electoral system that passes for democracy. Yet they, the NDP keep acting, with their heads where the sun doesn't shine, acting as if one was the same as the other.

And we all really know, in our heart of hearts, that it is not.

One or the other can be achieved this side of what passes for democracy, not both. And the NDP keeps picking, as it is here about to again, its deep rooted careerist instinct to do whatever it takes to simply get elected within the bullshit system, while sacrificing any real socially transformative substance. Their sphincter muscle is clamped tight around their necks, keeping them forever there in the dank dark of career fulfilment and a desire to really be just another Liberal Party.

To really change society is going to take, like it or not, whether it seems fruitful right now or not, looking outside and building an alternative route to "meaningful" power. And that power route must take into account and include the building of a mass community and street level movement of "the people", to provide the backup muscle and intimidation factor that will work upon the ruling class and their robot minions, taking power initiatives in their own workplaces and communities, as well as providing a climate of support for those working on the "governance" front. Both fronts, the street and the political, must serve each the interests of the other, but especially the peoples' interest, in creating a more truly democratic and egalitarian governance and management structure over the economy AND, based upon and growing out of that, over the political system as well.

Without recognition of this essential dynamic to the process of social change and winning "real" citizen self-governance, the NDP will remain like some other kind of chicken little, only with its head in an even more unforgiving place than under its wing.

And I don't care whether there is not even the whisper of this essential prerequisite street movement or not right now. Without it, we, all of us, NDP or not, ain't going anywhere that really counts. Again we will just continue like that same chicken, standing out there in the barnyard of poo, standing on one leg for awhile, and then changing periodically to the other-, one conservative and the other Liberal-NDP. Living in eternal, unfulfilled hope, but providing careers to the careerists and opportunists.

Leadership people will follow

As a card carrying New Democrat I am greatly concerned with the astonishing lack of accountability excercised by Ms. James et al at the "leadership" level.

I recently stumbled across a newspaper article from April 2009 where Ms. James trumpeted the virtues of banning corporate and union donations, the latter an ill-informed insult to labour all under the guise of being middle of the road.

Voters want a leader who is principled. Clearly Ms. James needs to go back to the drawing board on this account. NDP voters want NDP politicians to stand for something. And Carole, the tired nonsense about "education" is just that in my view-more fluff and nonsense.

Stop insulting your base or do the right thing- resign for the good of the province. We need leaders we can believe in.

Not voting NDP

The next time I vote NDP will be after Ms. James is gone. I can only hope she gets the message and leaves. As she is not doing the party or the province any good. IF I VOTE AGAIN it will be for someone who has a strong social conscious and screams about the cut backs that have reduced the province to a place to move away from.

Hi Frank.

The NDP chased an economy out of here before, and they'll probably do it again. Reluctant to change, they will not be taken seriously by any size of business.
Maybe it isn't wages that need to take a kickin' but our currency, and being tied to an artificially inflated USD does put us into a situation where the fall could be enormous. Right Wing Left Wing whatever, we have to follow the money and our ideology and propoganda will adjust.
I admit I am in a quandry. Pay foreign labour as little as possible and export our technology, guilt and pollution, or change?
Compete on a cost basis and accept lower wages by comparison or shrink our economy?
What is the alternative?
It is too cold here to live in a shack here. I am going to study Denmark like bpither suggested earlier, maybe there is an answer there.

Also, what is the planet going to look like when every Indian and Chinese family has a car? What to do...
We need Global environmental standards and an end to Harpers stupochracy, and get ready for a levelling of the global standard of living if we are competing for the sales of commodities alone, which describes most of Canada's economy. It is not going to be fun.
No party out there serves people that don't buy into the LW/RW propoganda train.
I hate to agree with G. Bush, but it is the economy...We must pay whatever it takes to keep people active, but our currency is going to get hammered. If sustainability meant competing with the world using improved and level environmental standards and changing our culture I am in, but all it means to James or Campbell is a continuation of the big business/big union dichotomy and more environmental degradation. See you at Walmart!

DavidN

You make good points and I enjoy your posts but you gotta quit waving red flags in front of me like saying James is all about "big union" and how the NDP chased the economy out of BC. You may not like LW/RW propaganda but that's the hyperbole you're throwing at me. We've had the actual stats posted here about 17,000 times over the last 7 years so there's no reason for people besides Luke and Wilf to still be flogging that dead horse.

On the subject of competing with India and China, I think we all want to hear ideas as to how to do that, but we want it to be actual ideas and not rhetoric. I don't want to hear that we can only compete with them if we lower our standard of living because too few of us are enjoying that standard as it is.

We already have a lot of poor people, I want to hear how they won't get poorer so that companies owned by the rich can continue to "compete with China".

Here's my ideas, 1) don't allow Cdn companies to move jobs offshore and sell back to Canadians. That means trade and investment barriers. Our domestic market is not something we should grant access to for free.

2) Let India and China build an economy the same way we did, by selling to our own domestic markets. That will give them an incentive to raise their standard of living making us happy too.

The BC cupboard is bare. Grand theft of the public goods.

Ummmm....hello.

So what exactly is left in BC to "sustain", Ms. James?

workplace fables

"The days of the $60,000/year floor sweeper at the mill are over"

I don't think they ever existed. Hopefully this link reviewing mill worker pay can help dispel the myth of the overpaid mill worker. As it demonstrates, the big money in mill work remains in the administrative positions aka 'the bosses'.

http://www.strategis.gc.ca/cis-sic/cis-sic.nsf/IDE/cis-sic3211sale.html#wag2

DavidN

No business will willingly pay fair wages to its workers or willingly comply with environmental regulations or willingly pay its fair share of taxes. They just won't and that is why they will always support a government which lets them avoid these three things. That is the Campbell Liberals because the CL party has no hesitation in getting the rest of us to pay for the breaks given to business, Why would business ever vote left?

Skywalker

To be "fair", no individual will either. That's because few people really care about the future as a group. The capitalist system cares only immediate profits (witness the "bubbles"). But then (to be fair), the socialist system also didn't much care about a future either (witness the mess that was eastern Europe).

So what do we do next?

James' speech was a death knell for positive change and any hope for winning elections or convincing ordinary BC people that the NDP can responsibly govern. Education and sustainability are self-evident virtues. Who could ever disagree with them? Unfortunately, sustainability has been so overused that it's meaningless.

All of this means that the NDP will stay on its fire and brimstone, Lenin leftist keel although it appears that there is a growing opinion for it to adopt more sensible policies like: wealth creation is good and necessary for social stability; a partnership with business is necessary for prosperity.

It is sad to see Jim Sinclair and Ugly Unions take the stage and undercut James' invitation to business. It's useless for business 'to be at the table' when the likes of Jim Sinclair only want to drive business into the ground or don't even want to stage a meaningful dialogue. And why can't unions and business work together? Why must the response be that business will never vote for us anyways? That's a self-defeating argument that closes the doors to any ideas.Jim Sinclair, not Gordon Campbell is the NDP's worst enemy. Every time he speaks, he scares away ordinary BC workers.

Instead, I'm afraid we will see a return to bashing business and laughing at the loss of private sector jobs. Yes, I know the NDP is ahead in the polls by 14% or so. But, that's happened before - when the next election is a few years away. And any pollster can tell you is that lead quickly evaporates and people forget about today's issues two years from now.

And then you have people like FRANK, whose ideas are typical union centred, unrealistic barriers to prosperity. We live in a competitive, technologically driven world of free trade and ideas. Creating arbitrary salaries (like $50,000 a year unskilled, unionized jobs at plants) that can't be supported by productivity is not a long term solution. Cheap goods from China cost less than the same expensive goods made in Canada- hence, they enhance are standard of living.

Frank, if you put up barriers, business will only shut down or go around them. People, skills and resources are available internationally. Canada needs foreign markets, too. So erecting barriers only hurts us. Stop with the Stone Age ideas.

Stop demonizing business. Stop insulting Campbell- personal attacks only show that you are insecure and bankrupt of real ideas. If a guy who is so personally unpopular, an alcholic buffoon, callous and incompetent can beat you in two elections maybe the NDP should take a close look in the mirror.

The NDP has to cease acting like a political movement and start acting like a political party with policies that make it appear to be a party that has potential to truly govern.

Positive And Negative Signals....

Much like the party's mixed message of the '09 campaign, the NDP convention leaves it's supporters concerned or confused.
Carole James keeps her job, subject to review in 2011. Her critics on the party's left are vocal, but for now they have no challenger to rally around.
The party leads the post election polls, partly as the default choice of voters finally disgusted with Campbell.
To win the next election, the NDP must convince enough of these voters to stay with them over the next 3 years. And wake up to the reality that these voters are not impressed by either right or left wing dogma.
In her speech, James palys it safe with a focus on education. It may keep moderates parking their votes, but won't seal the deal. However, long time members, key organizers and volunteers still want James replaced. Will a divided party be electable?
Delegates were united though in electing Moe Sihota as president. This drifting ship, it's captain facing a potential mutiny, will get back on course.
I was amused and relieved to learn of Moe's return to active politics; his savvy gained from many battles with powerful opponents will soon be noticed. BClibs are already reacting with bottom of the barrel remarks hoping desparately something will stick. Nothing will, of course, and won't it be fun watching Moe frusrtate his critics again.

Brad

Somehow I think I'll have an easier time squaring what Layton said about profits than you will with what Iggy said about torture.

By the way, are Campbell and McGuinty also FOR torture or do they not quite see it as the same "lesser evil" that he does?

Speaking of Campbell and McGuinty, I thought they were pro-HST whereas Iggy and Rae don't seem that enthusiastic...

Are you sure Campbell and McGuinty are in the same party as Iggy and Rae?

Bobby Peru

You didn't like James speech either? That's interesting since she wants to be your friend. I thought what with her being so happy that many Dippers are no longer supporting the party and her wanting to reach out to businessmen like yourself that you'd be all smiles for the NDP today.

Yet you still seem a tad negative. I guess that's because she hasn't done the "full Gord" and called for more poverty eh?

Guess that strategy of hers didn't work.

As to your specifics...

"And why can't unions and business work together? Why must the response be that business will never vote for us anyways?"

You're kind of proof of that. James cozies up to you and you call her a Leninist... which I assume you think is a bad thing?

"Yes, I know the NDP is ahead in the polls by 14% or so. But, that's happened before"

In the last 15 years? Name when.

"And any pollster can tell you is that lead quickly evaporates and people forget about today's issues two years from now."

Brian Mulroney's pollster just called and said you're wrong.

"And then you have people like FRANK, whose ideas are typical union centred, unrealistic barriers to prosperity."

You've seen the sticker on my license plate?

"Creating arbitrary salaries (like $50,000 a year unskilled, unionized jobs at plants) that can't be supported by productivity is not a long term solution."

So tell me what is the solution, I think you've had time to think of one.

"Cheap goods from China cost less than the same expensive goods made in Canada- hence, they enhance are standard of living."

And all the stuff given to Africa at the price point called "free" has really enhanced their standard of living hasn't it? I fail to see how foreign labour putting domestic labour on the unemployment lines makes us a paradise but I'm willing to listen. If it wasn't for the Pacific Ocean being in the way there wouldn't even be service jobs.

Bobby Peru part deux

"Canada needs foreign markets, too."

Take the auto-sector out of the equation since its an example that supports my argument (make the other side "pay" for access to your domestic market) and you're left with a country that doesn't build that much for the export markets.

We sell resources Bobby. We buy back finished goods. Do you know of another developed nation that is as dependent on the primary sector as us? Perhaps Australia but all in all it would be a very short list.

We don't sell oil, lumber, power, potash, wheat etc because we managed to talk somebody into a great trade deal, we sell those things because other countries need them as inputs for their economy.

"Frank, if you put up barriers, business will only shut down or go around them. People, skills and resources are available internationally."

You're supporting my argument. Business has great trade deals but even Canadian flags are made in China. I agree that we shouldn't have any barriers to business moving away. We just shouldn't allow them to sell back into our domestic market. If they want to go build something in China for the Chinese market, by all means let them. Just don't build it in China for the Canadian market.

"Stop demonizing business. Stop insulting Campbell- personal attacks only show that you are insecure and bankrupt of real ideas."

Are you wearing your "martyr" clothes now? Great, please post links to your many letters to the editor back in the 1990's telling your right-wing friends not to demonize Clark and Harcourt. And I assume all the posts on the Tyee under your name attacking unions were made by a hacker?

"If a guy who is so personally unpopular, an alcholic buffoon, callous and incompetent can beat you in two elections maybe the NDP should take a close look in the mirror."

Why? We don't vote for him, you do. Ask yourself why you stay in such an abusive relationship.

"The NDP has to cease acting like a political movement and start acting like a political party with policies that make it appear to be a party that has potential to truly govern."

Smells like ...rhetoric.

Here's the thing about unions

All the armchair CEOs decry them, but if you've ever actually sat down at a negotiating table, the managers and decision makers in the real world are more than happy to find a deal. Everybody (on both sides) gnashes their teeth about the varying degrees of Armageddon each clause in a contract will bring, but the reality is both sides benefit from cost-certainty w/r/t wages and benefits, clear language on job requirements and progressive discipline, and sensible ways of handling layoffs and severance.

Unions built this country and if you want the good times to continue for everyone rather than a few elite at the top of the economic food chain, you better get down on your knees and pray to whatever God you have that they stay strong and influential.

RickW

All that means is that we need some hybrid of a moderate left-right government. I don't mean liberal because so far they are too easily moved to whatever direction the corporate winds blow. Spineless liberals are as bad as Campbell liberals.

Hi Frank

Good points as usual.
Except of course we built our economy through export not internal consumption of course, nuzzled up to the world’s #1 consumer as we are. Our economy has thrived on supplying everything from wood to Agent Orange to the US. Eliminating trade would destroy our economy. We can't turn turtle Frank, that'll do us in. I agree in part mind you.

Maybe the answer lies in the labour ownership in business in whole or in part, conserving and owning as much of our domestic resources as possible, finding efficiencies in public and private sectors, eliminating monopolies, global environmental standards and education. How about putting up a trade barrier for any goods produced that do not comply with our domestic human rights standards? Or for products like ½ of Wal-Mart’s stock that cannot be recycled? That would start levelling the playing field, the unions fought long to create safe and humane conditions for labour and we now allow importation of products made under conditions we would not allow here…exporting the pollution and poor labour conditions is not right. The NDP should be at the forefront of this but they not. They are happier being antagonistic than visionary.

Check the USDX for proof that our North American bastion is under siege. It is getting kicked. We can’t have it both ways. Without constructive levelling trade barriers and a better-educated populace we are doomed. My vote is we catch Angela Merkel and have her run the country for a while. German businesses work very well with Angela Merkel, who is ‘Lefter’ than the NDP (who are morphing into Liberals anyway), because she and her party is progressive and intelligent...something we can only dream of.

THAT'S the last straw for me.

Well, it's all very nice to argue the relative benefits of unions, choice of political parties and so on, but what difference does it make when the system can excrete the likes of the Nortel executives and then protect them? That's like trying to pick up a turd by the clean end.

We have spawned a management / executive class of citizens - not unlike the Aristocrats of old - who consider themselves above the law and the moral values the rest of us acribe to - or at least would not flout as in-your-face as they have just done and continue to do.

Their arrogance and claims of entitlement should merit precisely the same rewards given to the French aristocrats - a one-way ride to the guillotine.

Frank ME2

It appears neither one of us is well represented politically.

Some of these tariffs, like the auto sector, end up costing the public purse more through tax breaks and bailouts etc. than they add to the economy, especially when we sit on our duffs and let technology pass us by and watch the Japanese and Koreans take over the market.
This protectionism stopped us from competing and improving.

Also we don’t have a monopoly on resources, Potash is a great example of a market with competition from countries with low costs, the stock plunged in Sask. Admittedly, some commodities are getting good prices and create lots of jobs and that is part of a healthy economy if not environment, and that is good but it is not enough to carry our costs. There is no political will to reduce costs we only want to pour money into health care and education. The economy has to get much worse before do what needs to be done to the public sector so we can improve the economy overall, and the NDP will never do anything except promote bloat.

And the same goes for the corruption and collusion in government and P3s, where we stick 500K managers BC Rail or 1.2 for BC Ferries for example. All this seems to surprise the Liberals, as though they had no idea. Try not paying taxes and see how long you are ignored, for peanuts.

Exporting wood and buying back a chair only benefits the relatively few people it now takes to run a feller buncher. There is rarely more money made in supplying raw materials than value adding. And business that controls the resource is often foreign owned anyway, so the high wage for the very few is more payola than benefit. We even import the feller bunchers. Then the day the coal mine is done or the price drops or the foreign source comes on line we have economic disaster. And we still import products no matter what they do to their labourers.

How about we start a new party and shake things up! I’ll talk to Angela when I am in Germany next June and see if she wants to move.
Hard not to agree with ME2, except I through the union executive in there as well.

rank

I guess now that I read what I wrote, I want protectionism based on our culture of human and environmental rights which should be more defined and more strict, not for the sake of protecting jobs to spite our economy. Walmart would suffer, and we would have trouble putting all that landfill under our trees. Culture must change, and that is up to us. And we need visionary brave gov't.
We are trying our best to buy locally and buy less, and next things you know we are happier, have less stuff and more money for good local grub.
Its a win-win, it starts with us but man the local Walmart is busier than ever. The public lacks the motivation. Maybe turning the TV off is a good start to depart from the hyper-consumtion culture that is creating the problem.

How the greedy float bloat........

"There is no political will to reduce costs we only want to pour money into health care and education. The economy has to get much worse before do what needs to be done to the public sector so we can improve the economy overall, and the NDP will never do anything except promote bloat."

I would agree that optimal health care and education isn't all about just throwing money around. But I do think the real question is about who is benefiting from increased funding. It is important to follow the money trail.

The BS Liberals love to brag about their increasing levels of funding for health care etc.....but the increased funding is not going to vital services, to senior care, to our paramedics, it is going to CEOs, boards of directors, "private managerial" bonus and bloat.

Social services are not bloat.

For a truly healthy economy, these beneficial services must be in place first. To imply that we must wait for the economy to get healthier before we address social infrastructure is putting the horse before the cart.

We can't afford to wait.

Our culture is a family unit in all regards....and to use a comparative example, we know that healthy well-educated and cared for children have a much better chance at life.

Economies flounder when people are floundering.

And, yes, most wise parents don't just throw money at their children, they guide, provide and care for them both emotionally and economically.... and when we do spend money, ( to speak metaphorically here as well), we don't buy the Olympic-sized swimming pool or gamble on Vegas.... when what our children really need is healthy food, a warm winter coat, medical care....and a good education.

Right now we have governments who are continually opting for the Olympic-sized swimming pool, the CEO flash...... money, money, money.....bigger and bigger private profits for a few...... over a strong public social system that will benefit the many.

That is what the recent economic collapse made very clear.

That greed always fails.....

because the sly purveyors of greed always intentionally paint the "Olympic"-sized swimming pool, the CEO salaries and bonuses etc as affordable necessities....and the school books and long term care beds as ill-affordable exorbitant costs.... and bloat.