Early morning typos-apologies!

I should proof read more often!

You lost me right there

"there are quite a number of uninformed opinions on this thread."

There are people who have seen aspects of this issue, which may be different from what you think you know. Where the deuce are you coming from talking down to others in that fashion? If you have some opinions/solutions to offer, why don't you just do so, instead of instructing people to buy a beginner's book? I assume you have read it, so get started on giving us a summary, particularly the parts that are missing in everyone's picture as you say.

I don't get very impressed with anyone who starts trying to pound other people into the ground the way you do, without actually offering anything in the way of substance, but simply massive condescension.

You do not expound your credentials; you demonstrate them through the merits of your argument.

And don't tell me again to take any deep breaths. Until I live in the facility for which you are a board member (over my dead body), you don't get to decide when and how I breathe.

doggone

I'd be interested in your story in Free State

For zalm

Where did I lose you? At "general strike"?

Certainly not. You may have seen in my reply to Coyote man’s post exactly what I think of that notion.

You lost me when you started your post by saying “... there are quite a number of uninformed opinions on this thread.”

Because you cannot make people listen to you by beating them over the head with superior knowledge and in effect try to make them feel small. Schoolteachers do this, and that’s why we live in a nation of beaten-down underdogs with few people of leadership grade, such as yourself.

I understand now, that you are a tired, disgusted man caught in the mucky system, attempting to cure a lot of ills that were never your doing and make it stick with inadequate resources at hand. I am sorry that I treated you in a somewhat facetious fashion, but I think the quality of the three posts that my ways elicited is perhaps worth it. For this is stuff we all badly need to hear, and you would not have said it except to put me in my place. Thank you for doing it.

I am not going to defend most of what I said. As far as the economic parameters and how they ‘should’ work, I know well enough that they don’t. That fact stated opens up the way to us all seeing where we are bafflegabbed on a daily basis, and to shoving the bafflegab back in the faces of the perps.

One claim I will explain is:

“what's this crap about sloppy and inept negotiating skills? Where on EARTH does that come from?”

It comes from being the end user of endless amounts of garbage (read: poorly designed technology and equipment) that had been decided on over the heads of such as myself, by puffed-up managerial types, who never themselves would get to lay a hand to using the tools they chose, but were too high-and-mighty to seek advice from the drudges on the factory floor, who could have told them in the blink of an eye that the stuff would not work. Likewise, inflated prices are often paid for the stuff, because it fits someone’s snobby idiosyncrasies about getting ‘a new one in a box’. If you ask me, public money is far too often made the stuff of people’s private hang-ups about something, and there is no check on managers and supervisors making poor decisions and their staff being stuck with the fallout for years. So there are your bedpan washers. How many nurses and/or bedpan-cleaning people were consulted? Nah, for they would have a vested interest in being naysayers, right? OF COURSE these people are lowlifes who don’t care about the big picture, but only about their own bellies.

As far as ‘greed and shareholder value’ goes, it doesn’t compute. Isn’t that where those business-savvy types we pay more for are supposed to earn their keep, in getting public facilities ‘better deals’. If they don’t know how to haggle, what are they getting paid for?

to be continued

for zalm, continued

The best and most important thing you say is:

“If you actually happen to work IN the system, train up or educate yourselves professionally to add value to the system in your jobs. Figure out ways to do things cheaper with the equipment you have instead of demanding new…”

Having maxed out on this one, and thereby having earned a solid reputation for being ‘clever’, ‘crafty’ and slightly scary (read: unpromoteable), I now dedicate myself to helping avoid waste by keeping peace in the workplace within my jurisdiction. As you probably know, a lot of stupid stuff that goes on simply arises from managers and supervisors not seeing it as a needed part of their professional acuity to know and thoroughly understand the terms of the contracts under which they work. So, instead of applying the boundaries under a contract as a framework for their decisions regarding staff, they simply sally forth until someone cries foul and they’re in a mess. I see it as a worthwhile effort to be the educator on this, seeing the personnel handling done right the first time, being aseptic rather than antiseptic if you get my drift. I believe this to be the best and biggest way I can contribute to avoid ‘stupid waste’ from where I sit. I am a disciple of W. Edwards Deming and have GREAT respect for the reality of ‘hidden cost’.

I know that seeking rhyme and reason from the big, dumb ‘system’ is banging your head against a brick wall. You could talk about complexities, and you do. If these were genuinely inherent, they could be taken apart, for complexity is simply a big bundle of details, so big that most people would shy away from the task of trying to sort them out. Obfuscation, which I think we’re facing here, is quite another matter. I believe that as ‘our end’ would earnestly try to penetrate the unnecessary complexity, other people will, elsewhere in the system, carefully patch up the clearings we have accomplished, because their goal is to never have things black-and-white, but rather ‘open to interpretation’, which allows them discretionary powers.

ERGO, the only way I believe one can work within that system, try to uphold decent standards and not go insane, is to set one’s course, decide on one’s principles, turn to true North and keep going, regardless of what ‘others may think’. You may, this being said very guardedly, influence to the better by your steadfast example. But you have to learn a little trumpet-blowing. People will enjoy stonewalling you and trying to kill you with silence.

Is this more in the nature of a conversation in your book?

Thanks, by the way, for your kind reflection on my usual standard..

Here's what I know, Zalm:

Herself and I signed up with V.S.O. to work in an hospital in QuaQua - one of the few "Homelands" that had it's own flag. As one South african put it: "It ain"t a Town and it ain't a Ship - it's a "TownShip"
We were parachuted in - her as a Physio and me as the "maintenance engineer".
She was supposed to fire the existing physio (they do use NGOs for this) and I was backpacked because they wanted her to do one dirty deed. We spent two years there: herself refused to be used as a terminator and I learned something about 10 ton/day coal fired steam boilers and Rolls Royce diesel backup gen sets and Merlin Gerrin 11 K.V. switchgear. The hospital was about 6K square meters per floor and five floors. This was not a "Mud Hut"
I have been in (and built) "Mud Hut" clinics.
NRGH (with planned expansion) might someday rival my charge then.

disgusting, you mean

I understand now, that you are a tired, disgusted man...

You got that right. And I don't see much of "leadership" material in myself any more - not since I took charge of that department at VGH. This one's gonna defeat me.

But as far as the change to the bedpan-cleaning process goes, it wasn't that simple. SPD was only too happy to get rid of drudge-work, and the nurses liked the idea of having the bedpans kept closer to the patient instead of sending them down all the time, and never getting enough of them back. But nobody looked seriously into the work needed to make it all come about - and now everyone is.... after they bought hundreds of them and found there's no guarantee they'll work right every time. (and the space shuttle was never supposed to blow up either.)

And that's what I see over and over. I don't see much of what you describe - the snobby manager pushing his pet project over the objections of underlings and against logic or common sense. But I do see a lot of people who don't understand the process perfectly before they try to improve it. It happens at all ranks including worker-bee.

And it happens at outside agencies like WCB, City building and inspection departments, NFPA, ASHRAE, CSA and many others, and their work has done as much as every lazy bastard who ever shirked his duties to hinder medicare becoming the pride of Canada.

Seriously, Dorothy, I don't see the kind of malice your or others describe when I look around the system - or even outside it. I just see a lot of busy ants moving things around, sometimes without the faintest shreds of a plan. But other posters, and I sense even you, are ascribing malice to it where none exists. And that's what I'm trying to get at in my grumpy, asinine schoolteacherish way....

Step into my shoes

Right from the first post:
Stop medical supply companies from ripping off the government. The cost of medical supplies is ridiculous!

Perhaps if we legalize euthanasia, instead of forcing treatment on people who don’t want medicalized lives we could reduce the deficit? But would a captive audience and high paid jobs in health care be gone too?

The liberals are obliged to make profitable private clinics the only way to go, because they are put in power to help their friends, by the same media.

The health budget is 7% of GDP,it was 7% of GDP 12 years ago and it is still 7% of GDP.......

And I haven't even gotten to General Strike or contracted services or managerial paybacks yet, never mind your own thoughts.

I apologize for ripping your face off in CAPITALS. It's whoever suggested General Strike that deserves that treatment.

Sigh. It's late, and I've had a snootful of wine to help compensate for a long morning overseeing a heating coil replacement and scratching up missing parts that someone forgot to order (only one guess who) last week. Should have put in a 66 hours last week - it might have saved some trouble today.

Maybe more tomorrow.

Livin' the life, doggone

Our visit to Zimbabwe, Zambia & Botswana left me with similar impressions. You'd think Mugabe had stripped the place bare from what's written, and I don't condone his behaviour anyway, but we saw plenty good hospitals and clinics in all three countries. We'd gone over on holiday to see about terms of service there, but really, they don't need our help, they just need our partnership.

Was your education there all by seat of the pants and whatever manuals you could find, or did you have some experience and help? That must have made you a real asset to the Regional now.... and how are those washers doing now anyway?

Wouldn't mind being a fly on your beer glass some day....

zalm speaks out against HST

and says this tax will not effect any members of his family, etc.,etc. What about his proposed huge housing project in Merrit? Will the HST make it more difficult to see homes with the HST attached. One would thing at aged 75 this man would have more sense than to babble on "with a snootful of wine."

This is just another developer trying to protect his ....?

Big Pharma and OUR Medical Plan

Many years ago our Federal Liberal Government, aided and abeited by big Pharma, increased protection of Patents to 20 years from 10. This prevented generic manufactures of the same products from producing generic drugs and selling them at about 1/3rd. the price of Brand Name drugs. Guess what? Our Health Care System took a huge jump in medicine costs.

Now we see the same thing with our LIbEral government. Only this time, with Big Pharma donating and "friends" (private medical centers) donating huge amounts of money to re-elect the LIARS, and make our Health Care system fail. Is total privitaztion just around the corner? YOU BET IT IS! I wounder what they will call it? CN? BC Ferries? Perhaps BC Private Schools? Geez! I'm sure they will find a appropriate name with fancy colours!

This government has no morals or ethics. They all want a good job with "guess who" after politics or huge gains in share prices. Hmmmmm sound familiar? Just look at the FDA in the US for a on-going working example.

"Sunday mornin' comin' down"

Zalm, your comments reminded me of this song by Kris Kristofferson.
It may be a bit of a streach but it's Sunday morning. And I'm not implying anything, I just heard Kristofferson sing this song on TV a few days ago and I find it quite touching. A few words,

"On the Sunday morning sidewalk,
Wishing, Lord, that I was stoned.
'Cos there's something in a Sunday,
Makes a body feel alone.
And there's nothin' short of dyin',
Half as lonesome as the sound,
On the sleepin' city sidewalks:
Sunday mornin' comin' down."

Maybe the leaner, meaner health care will result in this.

Health Pirates: Wealth by Stealth

"But the health authorities are not government agencies, they are independent organizations operating their own budgetary process. And although the vast majority of their funding comes from the province, they don't know how much they will get until the Ministry of Health Services divvies up its own budget."

And what a convenient "independent" "set-up" this has been.

Intentionally deceptive.

Intentionally deviant.

Intentionally unaccountable.

Here they both go....round and round... government and health/business authorities hand in hand.... round and round "the round table" endlessly passing the buck and making lots of bucks while intentionally dismantling our public health system and "forcing" it (haha!...like those one dollar BC Rail land purchases onto CN) into the waiting money-grubbing hands of the privateers.

Same old corrupt game by the same old corrupt crew.

They've just learned to hide the parrots and the bottles of rum....

arrrgh....and the plunder.

Zalm ... you need a different User Name!

I could be mistaken ... but I get the impression that some of our commentors believe that "zalm" is former premier and friend of Li Ka Shing: William Vander Zalm.

Not.

meanwhile

Meanwhile, the Campbell government continues to pour millions into the Olympics(tm) in order to guarantee the very high profits of certain corporations.

So it's not so much that there's a shortage of funds, it's just that the funds are going to something much more important than health care, namely the pockets of Campbell party contributors. Who, in turn, will then give some of that money back in bribes, sorry, party donations.

the party that will change things...

"There is only one way to change things, and that is to vote for the party that will change things."

And which one of the current "co-operating crop" to the bullpoop democratic system is that?

I'm wanting a good laugh here. Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition? :-D

I'm laughing in anticipation already.

"Same old corrupt game by the same old corrupt crew.

They've just learned to hide the parrots and the bottles of rum....

arrrgh....and the plunder."

To which quote I would only add an "s" to pluralize "crew". They are all in on the scam.

Zalm: what do you mean: Washers? have you been reading archives?

I have yet to do that - what did I say, anyway?
Yeah, it was fun.Our kids and what's left of my parents came and we had a car and a place to stay for them. We wandered into Botswana and Lesthoto and Zimbabwe. Really liked the "Game Parks" like Kruger where the tourist is fenced instead of the "Big Five".

'Do not ascribe to malice...'

“..I don't see the kind of malice your or others describe when I look around the system - or even outside it.”

I never really operate with the concept of malice, or evil for that matter. The way I see it, most pernicious (in their outcome) things are perpetrated by people who have never managed to come to terms with the fact that no one gets out of here alive. They run, they secure, they protect, they build fortresses, and they try to get to a safe place where no one can threaten them. Threaten I mean in the sense of threatening their legitimacy.

This is simply the thing known as the human condition. It can get extreme in its manifestation when, as is the case now, the normal mechanisms of eugenics have been put out of commission for a long time, and the snivelling conniving ones among us have prevailed. Try to read any old epic chronicles, and you will see that a lot of behaviour that passes for normal or at least ‘forgivable’ today would have earned swift retribution back then, due to it being against the basic rules of honour and community. Also, many who thrive today under the nanny state’s caring wings would have perished in the face of the unforgiving nature around them, simply being too dumb to show respect for the nature of the beast.

Another ramification of ‘modernity’ as it floats around now is the crowding, which makes everyone, or nearly everyone, lean more towards the psychopathic modus operandi on their way through life. When we have our backs against the wall, we get more hard-as-nails about taking care of ME. Everyone knows this, but it won’t do to admit that there are too many people on Earth, for whom should we get of rid of? Maybe we could apply intelligence to the problem and just hit the brakes on procreation. It is already happening, and if you go under the address

http://www.census.gov/ipc/www/idb/informationGateway.php

(It becomes a little easier to understand it all, when population pyramids are available, but they are currently down. So be patient.)

...more

'..what can be explained by common stupidity.'

More:

You can see for yourself why the economy is getting leaner and meaner, and why this will not just be a blip, but the new reality. The problem with it, of course is, that it may very well be those of us with the most brains in our heads, who are hitting the brakes first and hardest. We may be going towards dark times until the whole picture evens out maybe ten to fifteen generations down the line. That is, if the unevenness of the downturn does not give some nations big ideas of taking it all over and we end up in bloody wars over turf. That would truly be ironic, but we have been ironic before. It is just so hard for people to resist the urge to secure themselves any way they can and to the greatest extent they can, an unfulfillable quest, as security of course is not to be had anywhere in this universe, hence the desperation.

Malice? No. Not even those who act with ‘malice aforethought’ in the legal sense. We just take care of US, and some of us do it in not so classy or noble a fashion. This is why I believe in the active obfuscation. It is done by people who are scared shitless of facing each day and not being up to’t and have everybody know that and be dumped out of the bottom.

All those who run after Campbell and cohort, hoping to be taken to the Money River, suffer from the same ill. It is fundamental, it has to do with life and death. That’s why it is so hard to make these people see sense. They’re freaking out. They are obsessed with fear of being caught naked out in the open landscape.

Need a leader for the revolt

BC MARY

dorothy, I doubt you're unpromoteable....

Deming led the way, but truly, the greatest understanding of where it all went wrong came from those little diagrams in Peter Senge's The Fifth Discipline. Hospitals are absolutely chock-a-block full of "shifting the burden" strategies. On a positive note, there are people there who know what I'm talking about, and are hard at work looking past the symptomatic solutions to the fundamental ones. Those are the ones, hard to recognize, who are worth following and working alongside. I can think of one infection control practitioner, and one,.... what... nurse?... who now deals in "human factors" and resistance to change. She's really very good.

Those who seek real change recognize those traits in others. I wish more would look around, see who manifests the change they're looking for and join up.

Sorry, zalm

I thought you were that publicity seeking former premier. He self-published a book a while ago and seems to be seeking attention whenever and wherever. I see BC MARY has suggested you get a new name. How about zowie? I see sunshine girl made the same mistake. Apology:)

Looking for Revolt Leaders...

"Need a leader for the revolt
BC MARY"

BC Mary would make a damn fine leader for the revolt. Better than any of the current "simpatico" crew on all sides. Certainly Campbell and James aren't anywhere near in her league.

But until "the masses" start demonstrating a desire to "move", with a little fire and brimstone, even the most sainted "great leader" is just going to be beating his/her head against the proverbial brick wall.

As KWD frequently says here, it's what tells us that more pain is coming . 'Cause they's testing how far they can push the working class, and what they can squeeze out of them before they start to stiffen their collective backbone in resistance.

No doubt leadership is important, but without the nurturing milk of a movement fighting to be borne, for which I certainly see no serious contraction signs yet, little sense one lying there with their legs spread in the stirrups, in all their naked vulnerability, pushing against empty space, just for the sake of it
.
To everything and in good time there is a season, and the sands are running in the glass, and the nature of the period continues to mature and become ever more obvious. And no doubt, the popular mood is increasingly vexed. Gotta be more than that though.

It will be obvious enough.

Give Me A Life!

Falcon does for BC Health what he has done for BC Tran slink as entire system was overhauled and left broke and is unable to meet the ridership demands of all the new residents nor rider's safety demands. Its just like the ambulances, all over again just wait until the Olympics!

What ever happened to saving for a rainy day as Campbell has Government Strip the Ministries to the bare bone while roads and building sprout up everywhere with labor from out of town as its full steam ahead, the Olympics is doing BC.

Campbell put in legislation making the Ministries Accountable until Ministers were found in a deficit and were going to be held accountable and Liberals scrapped that law.

So Sports aren't necessarily a healthy choice for residents expected to put their life's on hold so the Olympics goes on. Its all part and parcel of the Sporting event as the poor became the sport as Ministries leave many on the streets and emergency rooms are closed. Only the money isn't there anymore, in transfer payments and taxes as Ministries scampbell for cash for operations and general revenue. As BC citizens in need of health care and services feel like they been asked to leave their hearts on the table as BC leads up to the event and everything else is put on hold, and not of the life support kind.

Talking beans and power...

And what the bean counters of the status quo party system don't get, or choose not to get, talking health or anything else is, that in the final analysis, after all the beans have been counted and the balance sheets have been tallied, it's really all about "power", who has it and who doesn't. It's about the distribution and balance of power, even more so within the economy than within the formal state structure, that determines whose set of priorities get served over what others. And this is no less true when one is talking about health care than any other major socio-economic issue, like say unemployment insurance, taxation and wealth distribution, or the other social service needs of "the people".

"Power", individual and class power, is the key to the door, who gets in and served, and who does not.
You bean counters need to factor this element more into your preaching about fiscal responsibility and distribution of scarce resources et al.

Which is why it is that "the people's needs" are always expendable and sacrificed first, and briefly considered only after the corporate pigs have all eaten at the private and public troughs first.

Power. Direct and manipulative power over the governance and priorities of the economy, and from that power base, the State. Never underestimate its importance . The ruling class certainly never does.

coyoteman

“..the sands are running in the glass, and the nature of the period continues to mature and become ever more obvious. And no doubt, the popular mood is increasingly vexed. Gotta be more than that though.”

And yet, when you look back on the tipping point for most previous revolutions, it got pretty far into ‘rotten’ territory before getting there. The revolts. When they happened, were just plain ugly and bloody, and where are they now? The revolution eats its own children!

In this, more than anything, the notion of Buckminster Fuller comes to mind, the one about building a new model that makes the old one obsolete. We need new models, of both revolt and of the social contract we want to achieve.

morechatter

“..Its all part and parcel of the Sporting event as the poor became the sport as Ministries leave many on the streets and emergency rooms are closed. Only the money isn't there anymore..”

The money for the Olympic juggernaut was never there. The premise was that it would be such a tremendous money-maker that we would end up with more cash in our hands than we forked over to begin with, as in ‘it's just a loan’. The tragedy is that enough BC’ers believed in that bafflegab instead of getting rational and looking at how big, or small, this province really is as an economy, and how far out of proportion the whole thing is. The Feds – well, they were always known to screw provinces when it came too close to their own comfort zone. It is just another case of everybody being so zonked out in their comfy chairs, lattes in hand, that they could be subjected to a high degree of disneyfication without a hitch. Cry the beloved province.

coyoteman - 2

‘ "Power", individual and class power, is the key to the door, who gets in and served, and who does not.’

But how about finding kinds of power that does not run on the same monorail as ‘their’ power? They only have it because we let them have it. Don’t stand in front of their dumb door. Don’t oblige them. Find out how not to need the service you will not get from them. Find out so successfully that you can even steal most of their customers away. It has been seen just recently, how fragile corporate power is. It rests on a knife-edge. It is much better to take it down by the perfectly legal means of starvation than mounting revolts. I could not believe my eyes when I saw that people are running for the cash-for-clunkers deal and buying yet another product from the clunker-makers. They are now starting to show us their ‘new face’. How too little too late. They don’t deserve our support. I know, people will be out of work and some may starve. Do you suppose your kind of revolt will cost nothing? This trouble was started by us, the people, when we bought our first package of manufactured rubber or celluloid buttons instead of going to our shop and making the buttons we needed. It’s a long time ago, and we have travelled far since then. It will equally be a long way back, and it will cost us. I absolutely believe this is the only way it can be done. we’re only slaves as long as we believe we are.

Violence or not...

"And yet, when you look back on the tipping point for most previous revolutions, it got pretty far into ‘rotten’ territory before getting there. The revolts. When they happened, were just plain ugly and bloody, and where are they now? The revolution eats its own children!" wrote Dorothy.

And have you ever heard me advocate that folks should take up arms.

No, you have not.

You are the victim of your own stereotypical thinking, ma'am.

The question of whether a social transformation is violent or not is much determined by a ruling class refusal to concede to the legitimate demands of "the citizenry". For example, the violence of the English Civil War of 1642 to 49, which brought the Cromwellian merchant class and its "parliament" to power, from which the current ruling class inherited its power history, was much determined by Charles I violent repression attempt against the supremacy of the new merchant class "parliamentary democracy". There are many other examples I could give you, but this should suffice to make the point. Any attempt to transform society, and move it to a new level, is, if not always then near so, met by the violent repression of the old ruling class system. This is the violence that is the problem.

I advocate the transformation of society, which is really all a revolution is, as in a technological revolution, or a revolution in science. I certainly do not advocate violence, only the right of "the people" to defend themselves against violent repression attempts, as the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto against the Nazis, and insist upon the democratic will. With luck and a change of ruling class heart, hopefully future transformation or revolutionary change will occur peacefully, and is what should be aimed for.

I would certainly not advocate though, that anyone such as the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto should compliantly and peacefully walk to their deaths at the hands of any would be violent oppressor. You might, but I would not.

Though the people have the right to insist upon the change in society such as they may come to desire. And again, peaceful change is always preferable, and the ideal. But old and bloody minded ruling classes, unfortunately, often have a great deal to say about the matter as well.

"We need new models, of both revolt and of the social contract we want to achieve."

I would certainly not disagree with that-, to the degree that is entirely controllable by me, thee or Buckminster Fuller.

Again, power... funny

The ruling class and their "management strata" aides, often lawyers, frequently speak of power, who has it and who doesn't, how to exercise it in any given situation, as well as its uses, and it, of course, seems entirely natural and as the Gods would have it.

On the other hand, whenever it is the working classes that speak of "power", how to secure, exercise and wield it, a chill passes around all the intelligentsia, faint of heart, and of course, those who advocate for status quo power. Visions of violent sugar plums suddenly dance in their heads.

A further example of the old Marxian observation that, the ruling ideas of any age are the ideas of its ruling class. Ditto notions of what is right and proper, and what is not. Even for large sections of the working class itself, who are no less subject to and influenced by these ruling class notions/ideas.

I find it some amusing.

The fact is, the working class, if it is ever to break out of its "wage slave" status in society, needs to be as aware and understanding of the issues of "power" no less than the privileged rulers over him, their presumed "betters".

That's it for today. I'm outta here. :-) All very tres amusante.

don't be absurd

"I would certainly not advocate though, that anyone such as the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto should compliantly and peacefully walk to their deaths at the hands of any would be violent oppressor. You might, but I would not."

I think you know better. And know me better. I do not object to violence per se, but it would truly be a last resort for me in any situation. Certainly being trapped in the Warzaw Ghetto would qualify.

It is grossly facetious to advocate not being violent, but daring others to be, when you can expect them to guard their turf as they see it by any means at their disposal. Who, Me??

I simply advocate applying intelligence to the problem, and it suits you to call me ‘faint of heart’. Well, be my guest. I hope my that my enemies, present and future, are listening. I cannot ask for a better position to be in than having them underrate me.

Thank you, zalm

To Zalm

First, don’t be bullied into ‘a new moniker’ just so others don’t have to twirl their brains around the similarity. I went through some stupid rigmarole long ago involving my name being the same as one of Tyee’s writers. I think everyone now sees that we are nothing alike and don’t take interest in the same things generally. I also think that if old Bill were to ever grace this medium with this presence, he would write his name in full and even try to squirm in a blatant amount of his particular kind of wit, so people could have absolutely no doubt. I kind of like the man, without really knowing why, as I am sure from an objective point of view, I wouldn’t define him as likeable in my book.

Thank you from the bottom of my heart for the reference to Peter Senge and his work. There is so much stuff there that I have been running parallel with, in a much fragmented way, as it was usually elicited by encounters with management and colleagues. Interestingly, some three to four years ago, I came across a copy of Mary Walton’s ‘The Deming Management Method’ in a used-book place. I was greatly amused, when I opened it and found it had been pre-owned by a department head in the place where I work, and for whom I have a great deal of respect. I brought it home triumphantly, and my significant other, after patiently waiting for me to bubble off, told me: Now you must find out what she needed the room on her bookshelf for!

Maybe the book you refer to was it…

Thanks again

newer book by Senge...

Peter Senge et al in The Necessary Revolution say that though superficially different, “talking nice” and “talking tough” are both ways of working to preserve the status quo, but:
"Both empathic listening and generative dialogue ultimately involve people becoming more open and more vulnerable, opening both their minds and their hearts. For pragmatic managers, opening the heart may seem ‘soft’ and a long way from what is needed for tackling difficult problems, but just as there is a ‘thinking of the head’, we believe there is a ‘thinking of the heart’. The former has to do with reason and logic, while the latter has to do with meaning and becoming fully engaged, two qualities that are essential for tackling systemic problems"(Senge, P., Smith, B., Kruschwitz, N., Laur, J. & Schley, S., 2008).
Without the curiosity to enable the story to unfold, that propels the inquiry framework, we are unlikely to see past events to patterns that shape systems. It is the spirit of inquiry, not as interrogative questions but as invitation to conversation, that makes individuals empowered…and leaders successful by empowered individuals.

Riding high horses...

"I do not object to violence per se, but it would truly be a last resort for me in any situation."

I, presumably then, according to you, advocate violence as my first resort. Again, you will have to show me where I have ever said that.

"I simply advocate applying intelligence to the problem..."

Again, presumably, I then advocate applying stupidity to the problem.

You are beginning to sound like a petulant child here, who has been caught out... in addition to deliberately attempting to misrepresent me.

Though we have it here now that, you, " ...do not object to violence per se."

Come down off your high horse, women. You are beginning to talk silly up there.

let's get together

and feel all right!
You guys are threatening to work against each other. seems to me there are not that many B.C.ers who even care, nor Canadians, nor world wide citizens.
Everyone is trained to look after their own immediate needs - that is not a bad thing - it simply does not work in any long term.

Coyote, did the heat get to you?

Good Golly do you ever take things personally! This ain’t about you, but about what you’re trying to slap on others. You all but called me a coward.

No I did not say you advocated violence, but that I find it a convoluted way to approach the subject, when in fact you do advocate confronting and then leave it to the adversaries to become violent, which, according to you as I understand, they can almost be counted on doing as surely as a clockwork.

Again I did not say your approach was anything like ‘stupid’, but simply that my own suggestions went in the direction of creating a new game, rather than plug into the well-known one. You do not need to be wrong in order for my views to have any merit whatsoever.

Horse? No, no, I am winding my way up Mount Meru on foot, the way it should be done. Whaddaya take me for?

VivianLea

"..just as there is a ‘thinking of the head’, we believe there is a ‘thinking of the heart’. The former has to do with reason and logic, while the latter has to do with meaning and becoming fully engaged, two qualities that are essential for tackling systemic problems"

Thank you for explaining this. It is very important stuff. It leads up to the idea of what ‘comprehensive’ approaches mean, i.e. based on comprehension and not on dogma.

To many old-school managers, this is scary stuff. They are so used to lean on the old secure dogma. I have even, more than once, seen the botching of changes that people on the floor might have welcomed, because the manager ran scared, pushed too hard, and ended up folding. In the place where I work now, over the last one-and-half decade or so, we have run through TQM, Mission, vision etc., ‘Steps’, ‘empowerment’, ‘engagement’. Every single of these efforts have run into the sand in the end, because management were not taking ownership, but just putting it on like a new suit of clothes, which was discarded as soon as staff did not pay intense attention, or, as soon as the imported-for-the-occasion experts had gone home.

I think we must keep chipping away at it.

thanks for your comment, Dorothy

The Necessary Revolution is an interesting book...also a fellow named Theodore Zeldin who is talking about the 'new conversation', and David Whyte, who wrote "The Heart Aroused: Poetry and the preservation of the soul in corporate America".
I wrote countless papers on these, but will spare you - however, if I could seek to distill the essence; it is that everyone (thinking of the workplace here) must engage in the conversations that will make our work lives humane, and human.
I cannot think of anything more important, for it is, of course, the people having these conversations who will change the delivery of health care...I think as zalm has pointed out, it cannot be done by fiat. It applies to virtually any work place of course...but would seem to be particularly important in work that involves the 'emotional labour' of caring for, or serving others.
Somehow we must go from people who go to work resigned to carrying out ridiculous policy and directives and feeling brutalized and ineffective to people who actively buckle down to the task at hand with what is available...It can be initiated by leaders but it does require full engagement, and therein lies the problem.
I take the trouble to write my thoughts here partly because I consider it my life's work; but I also see it as profoundly political.If we could change the structure of work and how people view and perform their work the revolution is on the way to happening.

Ok, you have my attention

It can be initiated by leaders but it does require full engagement, and therein lies the problem.
end quote.
And what "leaders" do you have in mind?
I might follow Muhatma if he was still around (yeah, I know he and Timothy are just outside).
We have no leaders
For now Obama will have to do.
Canadian "leaders" are a disaster!

how charming to have your attention...

I was thinking of leaders like myself, and zalm, and Dorothy, and you, doggone...

The kind of leaders you speak of I should refer to as servants of the people - I am an old-fashioned kind of girl (but not girlie) who believes in democracy...

Yes, this is so true

"It applies to virtually any work place of course...but would seem to be particularly important in work that involves the 'emotional labour' of caring for, or serving others."

This is so because in a health care facility, the recipients of service are in a uniquely poor bargaining position, essentially defenseless. Some years ago, we had a discussion in my workplace, where part of my input read:

" Compassion and empathy should compel us to consider every job
we are being asked to do, big or small, glory-imbued or mundane, under the assumption that the result may be vitally important to somebody's health, welfare, and possibly even life.
Seeing that this is true, not only for every job we ourselves are doing, but also for every job each of our colleagues is doing, this will, in turn, mean that the compassion and empathy, the willingness to serve, to put someone else first, will transfer to our colleagues in a vicarious fashion, but nevertheless with real and practical impact on the way we interact with them."

Nothing in my view on this has changed, so I can totally agree that health care is avery special task.

No input from me for the next few hours is not due to lack of interest, but I need to sleep. Thank you for everything I have learned from so many here. It is really important to have these exchanges so we don't feel too alone and get frayed and cynical.

monty

No apologies necessary. You'd have figured it out in time....

There was one thing I liked immensely about our former premier with the headband-wearing wife.... his absolute honesty of speech. He told you what he thought, and his voice could never keep the secrets that come with governmental power, so I never, ever had any hesitation about who to vote for as a result.

I chose that name to remind me to strive to be just that honest in my speech. I'm sure none of you will mind terribly if I follow in the footsteps of one of our other shining lights, skywalker, who declined to change his/her name simply because a vicious no-mind prepended a "Luke" to it.

Dorothy

Walton's book has great examples in it. It's still on my shelf.

thanks VivianLea

...but if Senge's The Necessary Revolution is as dense and impenetrable as The Fifth Discipline one was, I'll wait for the Coles notes version. I spent months on that one, over and over again, drawing things out....

And ultimately, it's done damn little in truly changing some of the systemic thinking in all my workplaces. It's much more important to, as you say, be fully engaged with the work lives, and even the personal lives of your workers and your managers in order to effect some change, however small, and to accomplish some understanding of a bigger picture. Speaking in terms of the possible, rather than cutting off possibility, often had a lot more to do with some of the successes we had, no matter how small.

It's rare that I get to participate in systematic explorations of systemic deficiencies. Even in my current job, which is as high-level as I've ever been, I can't get to that kind of task more than once a day for a few minutes until long afte3r everyone else has gone home, and never more than once a week with other people, for not more than half an hour or so. And that isn't enough to effect change.

doggone

Sorry, I assumed you were also a "maintenance engineer" here, at Nanaimo Regional, and hence might have had something to do with Tornados:
http://www.timescolonist.com/news/Leyne+Nanaimo+hospital+botched+battle/1716424/story.html

My apologies. Whatever your trade, anybody who can take over coal-firing a 10MBtU/hr boiler and running h.v. gensets by the seat of his pants has more than a little on the ball.

This add that, and a thank you to zalm

“Even in my current job, which is as high-level as I've ever been, I can't get to that kind of task more than once a day for a few minutes until long afte3r everyone else has gone home”

Thanks, man. You just made me realize how privileged I am. I now really see, what I have suspected for a long time, that never getting the upward move I did spend some years hankering for actually has been a lucky escape for me. I also often spend time after everyone has gone home, or before they arrive, or in most of my lunch breaks, or in the evening at home, or even Sunday afternoon if a staff member in distress calls on me for help. But I am a much more free agent than you are, not so weighed down on the work side. I have become the master of my trade and can check out every day after a job well done, end of story, which is not nearly so easy to achieve for you with the much more hairy responsibilities that really have no cut-off point. Thanks for sharing.

So, you work in Nanaimo. I spent a few years there a couple of decades ago. One of the happiest times in my life as it turned out. Our first child was born during that time. I work in one of the big places in Vancouver, but it hasn’t grown in the same horrible way as VGH, as the nature of the clientele makes it impossible not to live up to DTA principles. I never knew Vancouver General well until I had occasion to visit a family member there during a longer period recently. I will agree with your assessment of the place. I am often amused (and sometimes not so amused) at the reverse situation regarding parking in the two places. At VGH, the lot is declared ‘full’ so as to hold places for staff, and patients must scramble around the side streets. Where I work, there are large areas ‘reserved for patient parking’, and the staff are those scrambling. Does that provide a degree of selection? Maybe.

Many years ago when I trained at St. Paul’s, there were a couple of funnies on the wall, which I think are worth sharing. One was a page with print: 'We have been doing so much for so long with so little that we now consider ourselves qualified to do everything with nothing.' I think that was a well-known quote. The other one, which I loved, I have not seen elsewhere. It was a cartoon of chubby little bean-men rolling on the floor with laughter. The caption read ‘You want it when?’

Together, it seems to me, they tell us almost the whole ball of wax. It’s never been any different. But I believe that ‘we shall overcome some day’. Too bad Pete Seeger made that sound so bloodless, but I can’t phrase it better in any other words…just imagine it said with vigour.

…and don’t forget we must start with elementary school.

Not enough caffeine, I see

Made a typo in the HEADLINE, for Pete's sake!!

It should have read 'This and that...'

My apologies

There is also this.

Seeing that this column must be on the chopping block, I would like to share a note of optimism.

As I mentioned, the place where I work has passed through a lot of upgrade efforts in the quality and cooperation department. To this end, at some point it was decided that policies for Human Rights as well as for Respectful Communication in the Workplace should be written up. A committee of ‘stakeholders’ was struck, and I got to participate as a rep for my group of professions.

The committee was headed by one of those ‘imported experts’ I mentioned before, who still today works for The Neutral Zone. Particularly the Human Rights Policy was a super paper; many labor and professional reps thought it the best one they’d ever seen.

Well, the tides of change swept over us. A set of new brooms with new ideas were put in charge, and like a school of piranhas, they ruthlessly skeletized our pride and joy, the Policy we had so carefully written up. The miserable remains could not have guided the running of a single-stall public washroom.

I went into a deep depression over this. So many steps backwards all at once, but it was drowned out by much bigger ensuing labor strife, of which Zalm knows far more than I do, having felt its real bite.

SO, when I came up for air a few months later, I found an ‘update’ of the Human Rights Policy. I read it, and it now had a little flesh on the bones, the patient had hope! Lo and behold, over the next couple of years, I saw a succession of such ‘updates’ until in the end, the finished paper was bare distinguishable from the original, except the complaint process had changed to fit the new administrative configuration.

There ARE things they just can’t screw with!