News

Money Tied to Gambling Interests Poured into BC Liberal Coffers

Total may top $250,000. Gaming industry rep denies he solicited contributions.

By Sean Holman, 27 Nov 2008, 24 Hours / Vancouver

slots2

Gaming has boomed under Liberals.

Private bingo hall and community gaming centre interests appear to have contributed more than a quarter million dollars to the provincial Liberals between 2002 and 2007.

But almost none of those donations were made via companies publicly-identified as bingo hall service providers in British Columbia Lottery Corp. annual reports released between fiscal 2002/03 and 2007/08.

Instead, a three week investigation by 24 hours shows 98 per cent of the donations came in the form of contributions from industry-connected individuals or companies whose president is a current or former gaming facility owner/operator.

And almost a quarter of the donations were recorded by the Liberals' as being made on the same day -- Feb. 15, 2005, three months before the last provincial election.

Of the seven individuals and couples who made corporate and personal donations on that date, six wouldn't or couldn't give details about those contributions.

The seventh was in Palm Springs and won't be returning to B.C. until Christmas.

When those donors -- as well as other owner/operators -- were asked why they contributed via companies other than their service providers, explanations ranged from "because [that was the company that] probably had some money in it" to "it was just the cheque I happened to have on me."

But John Becher, a Terrace bingo hall owner, volunteered a different explanation for his own donations -- one that has been denied by Tom Nellis, president of the association representing a majority of B.C.'s bingo halls and community gaming centres.

'That's what we usually do'

In a taped interview, Becher, who made those contributions in his own name, said Nellis has solicited donations for the Liberals at Registered Gaming Management Companies of B.C. meetings.

"And, generally, they don't want to have it through the actual company. They'd sooner do it on a private basis," said Becher, who has contributed a total of $10,000 to the Liberals, including a $4,000 donation on Feb. 15. "That's what we usually do. And then I'll just get a cheque back from my own company."

Asked about that practice, Becher -- who owns the Lucky Dollar Bingo Palace -- said, "It's just Tom's idea that it looks better than to have gaming supporting the government."

Otherwise, he added, "people will say, 'Gee, what's going on here. We can see why the government wants all these slots put in because they're being supported by the gaming association.'" -- a reference to a fiscal 2004/05 lottery corporation initiative that has resulted in the installation of 1,105 slot machines at bingo halls across the province.

No other current or former owner/operator contacted by 24 hours reported receiving advice not to donate through their service provider.

President of gaming group denies soliciting donations

For his own part, Nellis has denied soliciting donations for the Liberals at Registered Gaming Management Companies of B.C. meetings, stating in an e-mail that "RGMC is not a political fundraising organization. It is an industry business association."

Nellis also stated he has "absolutely not" advised owner/operators to make donations on a "private basis" because service provider contributions would look bad.

Although Nellis, who declined to name the members of the Registered Gaming Management Companies of B.C., wrote he has counselled "business associates to support the government of their choice."

Nellis, who is also chief executive officer of B.C.'s largest bingo and community gaming centre operator, hasn't made any donations through his service provider -- Playtime Community Gaming Centres Inc.

Instead, Dominion Catering Ltd., K&T Properties Ltd. and R&E Projects Ltd. -- three companies of which he's president -- have donated $121,849.

And he's also personally contributed $2,342 for a total of $124,191 -- the most of any owner/operator.

Asked why he hasn't made any contributions through his service provider, Nellis stated it was "a personal decision."

He described Dominion Catering and R&E Projects -- two lottery retailers -- and K&T Properties as "private" companies.

Elections BC 'reviewing' the matter

Elections British Columbia communications director Wendy Stewart says her agency is "reviewing and considering the information that has been provided" by 24 hours. "And we need additional time to review the matter."

Bingo hall and community gaming centre interests also donated $4,100 to the New Democrats between 2002 and 2007.

Other apparent contributions made to the Liberals by those interests have included:

* $30,000 from Newton Square Properties Ltd. According to a Liberal financial report, the company's principal officer is Len Stuart, a founding partner of Boardwalk Gaming and Entertainment Inc. -- Canada's largest bingo hall operator.

In an interview with 24 hours, Jordan Gnat -- who is president of both Boardwalk and Newton Square Properties -- said he didn't remember the donation, which was one of several gaming contributions made on Feb. 15, 2005.

But, according to him, Newton Square Properties is "a real estate firm. That has nothing to do with bingo... You're making a conclusion that's not correct."

Stuart is also identified as the principal officer for the numbered company 428675 B.C. Ltd., which contributed $31,000 between 2002 and 2003.

But Stuart, speaking to 24 hours while fishing in the Bahamas, said he doesn't know anything about donations from the numbered company or Newton Square Properties.

"The problem is, I'm retired," he said. "I've got investments in about 15 or 20 companies. I don't really follow what Jordan does, to be honest with you. And, unless somebody is making a big acquisition for millions of dollars, people don't really bother me."

On March 28, 2004, 428675 B.C. Ltd. was amalgamated into another numbered company -- 427967 B.C. Ltd., the service provider for two of Boardwalk's three British Columbian bingo halls.

Gnat is also the president of 427967 B.C. Ltd.

* $7,200 from Otter Properties Inc. and the now amalgamated Tower Plaza Inc. John Major is president of both companies, as well as Good Time Bingo Hall Inc. -- the service provider for community gaming centre Chances Good Time Prince George.

Asked about those donations -- along with the $4,200 in personal contributions made by Major and his wife -- Major said, "I'll donate to who I want, what party I want and I'm not ashamed of it. And I'll do it from whatever company I want to. But that's my business," before hanging up.

Six years ago, Major -- who is also the operator of the Treasure Cove Casino -- made headlines in the Prince George Citizen after making the biggest individual contribution to the Liberals in 2001 -- contributing $58,055.

* $23,000 from B-11 Holdings Ltd. and 7779 Ventures Inc. The companies' presidents are Patricia and Gary Hart.

Patricia is also president of Enterprise Entertainment Ltd., the service provider for community gaming centre Chances Kamloops.

Asked why she and her husband have made most of their donations through B-11 and 7779 Ventures rather than Enterprise Entertainment, Patricia said she didn't see the relevance of the question.

"We have various companies in B.C. and Alberta and have donated to a lot of things over the course of our business life," Patricia answered, adding she wasn't uncomfortable making donations via her gaming service provider.

In fact, Enterprise Entertainment donated $400 to the Liberals in 2007.

In an earlier interview, Gary said he couldn't comment on the $5,000 B-11 and 7779 Ventures each donated to the Liberals on Feb. 15 without looking at the couple's records.

Although he said, "I don't comment on who we support or why."

* $14,500 from MTS Enterprises Ltd. and 593904 BC Ltd., including $6,000 on February 15.

Merle Gardner is president of both companies, as well as Lucky's Ventures Ltd. -- the service provider for Chances Signal Point in Williams Lake.

Asked about her Feb. 15 donation, Gardner said, "It's a while ago. I can't give you any specifics on it."

She also said there was no reason that donation came from MTS -- a lottery retailer --rather than her gaming service provider.

"Possibly it was just the cheque that I happened to have on me," Merle suggested.

* $7,400 from V M Holdings Ltd., its president John Vetter and his wife Betty.

Vetter was also president of Vetter Management Services Ltd., the service provider for the now closed Bear Mountain Bingo Hall in Dawson Creek.

The company was sold to Great Canadian Gaming Corp. on Oct. 1, 2004.

All of the Vetters' donations -- including a $5,000 contribution on Feb. 15 -- were made after that sale.

"As far as that date, I really couldn't remember any significance to it or anything," said John.

* $6,500 from Kings North Development Corp., $6,000 of which was donated on Feb. 15.

Mark Eraut is the president of that company along with 319968 BC Ltd., the service provider for Bingo Bingo Esquimalt.

But Eraut didn't remember any details about his Feb. 15 donation.

In response to a question as to why he made those donations via Kings North Development rather than his service provider, Eraut said "I can't tell you [anything] other than the fact that I support the Liberals province-wide and I support them with whatever company" has money in its account.

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51  Comments:

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  • RickW

    3 years ago

    What's This?

    Bingogate II?
    and
    DECK, The Sequel?

  • Luke Skywalker

    3 years ago

    Gaming Contributions...

    Quote:
    Money Tied to Gambling Interests Poured into BC Liberal Coffers... Gaming has boomed under Liberals. Total may top $250,000.

    What seems not to be reported herein is that it is municipalities who decide whether to permit gaming within their individual jurisdictions. Yes, those municipalities controlled by both civic Liberals and New Democrats.

    With that taken into account, Vision Vancouver, the new centre-left Vancouver governing civic party, has been described by some as an NDP civic farm team.

    Looking at Vision Vancouver's 2005 contributors (2008 has not yet been filed) also provides an interesting result:

    Quote:
    Casino and gambling interests donated $205,785 [to Vision Vancouver]

    If one looks at the $250,000 provincial figure and the multi-millions spent on an election campaign compared to the much smaller Vancouver municipal campaign, Vision Vancouver certainly received better bang for their buck/voter.

    http://tinyurl.com/rzp7v
    [URL shortened for technical reasons. -Moderator.]

    To reiterate, it's the municipalities that are the key decision makers in permitting gaming within their jurisdictions, not the province.

  • jsinger

    3 years ago

    integrity

    I hope to be hearing about this in other places than the tyee. Sean Holman is a brave, intelligent, and persistent man. We're lucky to have him. I hope others in his profession will increasingly wish to be like him.

  • G West

    3 years ago

    Ummm!

    Private bingo hall and community gaming centre interests appear to have contributed more than a quarter million dollars to the provincial Liberals between 2002 and 2007.

    But almost none of those donations were made via companies publicly-identified as bingo hall service providers in British Columbia Lottery Corp. annual reports released between fiscal 2002/03 and 2007/08.

    Instead, a three week investigation by 24 hours shows 98 per cent of the donations came in the form of contributions from industry-connected individuals or companies whose president is a current or former gaming facility owner/operator.

    And almost a quarter of the donations were recorded by the Liberals' as being made on the same day -- Feb. 15, 2005, three months before the last provincial election.

    Of the seven individuals and couples who made corporate and personal donations on that date, six wouldn't or couldn't give details about those contributions.

    The seventh was in Palm Springs and won't be returning to B.C. until Christmas.

    When those donors -- as well as other owner/operators -- were asked why they contributed via companies other than their service providers, explanations ranged from "because [that was the company that] probably had some money in it" to "it was just the cheque I happened to have on me."

    I think not

  • Bailey

    3 years ago

    An offer they can't refuse?

    I find it very interesting how many connections there are between our esteemed government and what is commonly referred to as 'organized crime'.

    The police investigation that led to the legislature being raided and searched, and several key cabinet types suddenly finding their families needed them more than their party did is one. According to a police press release at the time.

    This money flow following the sudden legalization of numbers and gambling after decades of calling it organized crime is another.

    If this is a pattern, one would expect to find it mirrored in other recently legalized enterprises that used to be criminal behaviour.

    Mr. Holman, ever consider doing a similar investigation into contributions from loan sharks? I mean check cashing/payday loan places that charge hundreds or thousands of percent interest? Or from the escort industry, which now advertises in newspapers and the yellow pages after centuries of illegality? Or even,dare we think it, from the one that remains illegal, the monopoly that seemingly finances all the rest, the drug trade?

  • egmont rapids

    3 years ago

    Is anyone really surprised

    Need 40.000 hecters of land,donate to the BC Liberals.

    Need a river and transmission lines and a lucrative contractual agreement,donate to the BC Liberals.

    Need gaming and gambling to go unchecked and full steam ahead,donate to the BC Liberals.

    The best goverment money can buy!

    P.S. Give my regards to John Les and Ken Dobell

  • Skywalker

    3 years ago

    All together now!

    Bingogate!

    Luke, that is really a pathetic pro liberal response. I can not help but be amused.

  • Luke Skywalker

    3 years ago

    "Individual" Donors

    What's interesting about this story is that individual donors are now being connected to corporate donors.

    So what?

    In that vein, the same thing happens with the NDP provincially and municipally.

    Fer instance, one well known New Democrat contributes "individually" to the BC NDP:

    Quote:
    24 Hours columnist and party activist Bill Tieleman gave $15 on the 5th of every month last year.

    http://www.canada.com/theprovince/news/story.html?id=44ad3c82-435b-41c1-b7ee-95b9723954d8

    So what?

    Yet the same Bill Tieleman contributed to Vision Vancouver's mayoral race/candidacy through his corporate concern... "West Star Communications Corporation."

    http://www.votevision.ca/sites/all/files/Gregors%20Nomination%20Campaign%20Disclosure%20(Final%20Draft).doc

    So what?

    The point is that in some instances parties contribute individually and the same individuals also contribute corporately.

    If the issue here is gaming... the more interesting contribution story just might be at the municipal level where all of the power lies in terms of granting gaming rights in terms of approvals.

  • Baxman

    3 years ago

    Luke

    What are going to do after the next election and you have to get a real job?
    Public Affairs Bureau anyone!!!!

  • Skywalker

    3 years ago

    Luke, Luke!!!

    Does Bill Tielmann have a gaming license? Does he own a Bingo Hall? Does he even have a deck? Now all of a sudden it is Vancouver Council that is the major influence on provincial issues. Puleeaase. What a red herring.

  • RickW

    3 years ago

    L.S/walker

    Big difference between $15 and $250,000 wouldn't you say? Yes, yes, it's not the amount that counts (in a pig's eye it isn't). It's the act.

    Yeah, Right..........

  • G West

    3 years ago

    Promises...promises.... promises.....

    How soon they forget...

    Campbell promise:
    “Stop the expansion of gambling.” – 2002 Throne Speech
    Since then....

    Liberal government will be making $1 billion off gambling by 06/07 - a 78% increase.
    Under Campbell the cap on the maximum number of slot machines in B.C. was first increased to 5,400 (from 3000) - and then eliminated altogether.

    Not just casino capitalism but casinos have been expanded and deregulated.

    Under Campbell casinos began serving alcohol on the casino floor and, for convenience they permitted the installation of ATMs right on the premises.

    Campbell has been pushing municipal bingo halls to take on slot machines and online gambling was introduced to further boost revenues.

    Even the lotteries branch, exposed by a report last year as possibly corrupt, was 'handled' by firing the CEO AND giving him an enormous severance package.

    This government has NO credibility with respect to ANY of its promises but the gambling lies are probably the most flagrant...

    Still no increase in the minimum wage; still no response to child poverty and no effective answer to homelessness.

    I guess the young and the poor and the homeless and the sick and the old haven’t made enough political contributions to the little band of acolytes who run the province from the Premier’s office…..

  • Baxman

    3 years ago

    G West

    Quote:

    I guess the young and the poor and the homeless and the sick and the old haven’t made enough political contributions to the little band of acolytes who run the province from the Premier’s office…..

    Acolyte, are you refering to Luke?

  • SharingIsGood

    3 years ago

    No moral compass

    This government sails without a moral compass. Alcohol consumption, drug use, criimal activity and gambling all increase during bad times. With the highest national child poverty rate for five years running, a great number of BC citizens have been having bad time. With the current economy, many of these children are poised for far worse. For the Campbell government to actively promote gambling and alcohol sales like it has through increasing the number of venues and the times they can be accessed is unconscionable. Unrestrained greed and power lust guides this government. For having elected them a second time, BC has proven to be a ship of fools. It's time to abandon ship.

    I hope that, when this government finally washes up on the rocks, the bootlicks in the Public Affairs Bureau who spread lies and half truths with our hard-earned money might be able to be brought up on charges. Is there any legal precedent to catch and cage the rodentia as they are leaving the ship? Could their actions be considered malfeasance? In my books they are non gradus anus rodentum! I don't know why we must pay for them.

  • seth

    3 years ago

    The Vig

    How do taxi licenses end up being worth $500K in the hands the Favored Ones at Big Taxi (the great unwashed need not apply) , when the city issues them for only a few hundred bucks?

    Greasy palms at city hall?

    According to a study by Jenny Kwan, less than half of billions in dollars in Gordo and gang contracts go up for competitive bids. The contracts are simply handed to the Favored Ones. In exchange for campaign donations?

    Remember the Park and Float dude at Twassasen who Total Recall and his side kick Hawn tried to boot off the ferry causeway. Turns out that a few months before the election he gave Gordo's bagman the boot. A lesson from Gordo's enforcement arm?

  • driftwolf

    3 years ago

    "Free press"?

    Sure the "major" newspapers will pick this up! Soon as they receive instructions from above to screw their patron saint, Campbell. A guy who has been getting free ride in the Canwest/Black dominated press in this province because he's "so good for business" after all. Nevermind that this business is raping the province, what do they care, they're getting paid off now.

  • zalm

    3 years ago

    A pile of horsefeathers

    "What seems not to be reported herein is that it is municipalities who decide whether to permit gaming within their individual jurisdictions. Yes, those municipalities controlled by both civic Liberals and New Democrats."

    Yes, a permission forced on them by the 1999 NDP government who sought to exempt existing casinos from the rules and bylaws, who sought no remedies for the crime and social disorder that casinos cause, a provincial government hoping for a few more bucks in the provincial coffers, all the while knowing that the casino operators would never give them a dime toward their re-election campaigns.

    "With that taken into account, Vision Vancouver, the new centre-left Vancouver governing civic party, has been described by some as an NDP civic farm team."

    Described by who? VanderZalm zealot Alex Tsakumis? COPE has always been the closest thing to an NDP farm team. Vision is largely composed of a bunch of frosted flakes with few principles and no coherent political policy on anything. Very much like the BC Fiberals. Bend whichever way the wind blows and dance to whoever's piping the tune.

    See this summary of the issues raised by the 1999 Rhodes Report on Gaming in BC (a provincial responsibility):

    "The Provincial government's proposed legislation on gambling:

    1. Takes away municipal jurisdiction
    Proposed legislation gives the Minister power to over-ride local government. In Vancouver, this would mean Council's ability to regulate casinos would be undermined (e.g., the Minister could over-ride City by-laws for Zoning and Development, Building, Licensing, Noise, Signs, Parking, Street and Traffic).

    It would give the Minister ultimate authority over relocation of existing casinos (where they go, size, and the type of activities permitted).

    The White Paper suggests that, in the future, the Minister may be able to permit existing casinos in one municipality to be relocated into another municipality.

    2. Avoids dealing with serious social issues around expanded gambling
    The City of Vancouver may have as many as 7,800 pathological gamblers that could cost our society hundreds of millions of dollars per year.

    3. Ignores economic issues
    The proposed legislation does not say whether there will be any economic or social impact assessment of expanded gambling.

    4. Does not realistically address policing issues
    The proposed legislation does not adequately deal with the cost of increased demands on police resources to control legal or illegal gambling.

    What mayor or city council wouldn't shrink from such overweening power wielded as that? To me it looks like prison sex - no attraction when viewed from the outside, but once you're inside, it's worth a try, if only to avoid a worse punishment.

  • Grumpy

    3 years ago

    This story well illustrates.............

    ..........Gordon Campbell's & his Liberal government pay as you go policy. You pay into Liberal coffers and you go about your business with little or no political interference.

    Hell, CN Rail paid and guess what, they got a railway!

  • Jeffrey J.

    3 years ago

    Another Scoop

    Cheers to Sean Holman, another courageous BC news reporter. ALWAYS a pleasure to see his name in the Tyee. And what a scoop.

    What's particularly disturbing about this story is how small donations from one industry (gambling/crime) can grow into a life long relationship. It's happened in jurisdictions around the world. Now its here in BC, in spades. Without public discussion, citizens will never be able to stop it.

    Third world country status, here we come.

  • Grumpy

    3 years ago

    What do you mean..................

    .................."Third world country status, here we come." We have arrived, we are a third world country, with third world politicians.

  • Peter Dimitrov

    3 years ago

    are political parties immune from drug money contributions?

    given the following stats you got to wonder what goes on in this Province/country?

    According to the May 19, 2008 issue of Macleans:

    "There are an estimated 20,000 marijuana grow ops in houses across the province... It's conservatively estimated that marijuana is an industry with revenues of $5 billion to $7 billion a year.

    ...By some estimates, criminal activity amounts to roughly seven per cent of the province's total economy. .... it's safe to say that alongside construction and tourism, criminal activity is one of B.C.'s strongest growth industries. "We can quibble about a billion dollars here or a billion dollars there," says Darryl Plecas, a criminology professor at the University College of the Fraser Valley. "But the bottom line is there's no question this is a multi-billion [dollar] industry." Crime is big business in B.C., and business, unfortunately, is booming."

  • Grumpy

    3 years ago

    In Short peter D.................

    ............ NO!!

  • monty

    3 years ago

    I was going to make a comment

    but golly, gee, how could it be, I can't remember what I was going to say or when I wrote that last cheque on which bank account!

    Give us all a break--just another bunch of conniving fraudsters. Great work, Sean, naming them adds to our list of those of ill repute.

    Great scott, the list is loooooooooooooong.

  • Frank

    3 years ago

    Luke

    Luke buddy, you've gotta get away from that Liberal war-room desk now and then or you're going to have to add "my feet" to the list of things you haven't seen in years.

  • RickW

    3 years ago

    McMafia

    Quote:
    Canada is home, in my estimation, to the largest number of criminal syndicates in the world. According to the Royal Canadian Mounted Police there are now 25,000 marijuana-growing operations in the greater Vancouver area alone.

    http://news.newamericamedia.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=3f5abe053ce09b5abff23eca43cf02a0

  • Stump

    3 years ago

    Police and drug figures

    I'd be skeptical of police drug squad numeracy. These are the same people that regularly estimate the street value of marijuana on a by-the-joint pricing scheme.

  • dorothy

    3 years ago

    You say it yourself right there...

    "This government sails without a moral compass."

    "Unrestrained greed and power lust guides this government."

    There you have it, they do so have a moral compass!

  • Luke Skywalker

    3 years ago

    zalm...

    Quote:
    COPE has always been the closest thing to an NDP farm team.

    Methinks that ya should talk to former BC New Democrat premier Mike Harcourt.

    Not only did centrist Harcourt perceive COPE to be "too" left-wing, he ran as an "Independent" as mayor and also ran three council candidates under his "Civic Independents" municipal party during the 1980's.

    They were something akin to today's Vision Vancouver.

    So you are now sayin' that COPE's Tim "Che Guevara" Louis was/is a typical New Democrat? :)

  • Frank

    3 years ago

    Liberal farm team

    Used car salesmen and casino operators.

  • morechatter

    3 years ago

    Cocaine sells Rocket

    And no wonder you can pick it up easier than a loaf of bread as there are no shortages of dealers out there. I heard booze sells were up some 30% also. I also know for a fact child sexual abuse is right up there and the booze and the drugs just make it that much more easier. Kids for sale and lots of them as these kids don't get any help as they go on long waiting list as was just speaking to someone who said their 3 year old still hasn't seen anyone and she was told the child was number 50 for abuse on the list and there were a whole lot others behind her who have been waiting for ever and it was going to be a long long waiting list and that was just one community. Its becoming real popular as young kids walk the streets and out of towner's are caught leaving Vancouver as attendants phone police as fellow caught viewing the child he abused on cell phone. So BC has its bud and it rock and its real young kids that walk the streets to survive on kiddy stroll which is more a long hike than a stroll as more and more kids end up on the street desperate and alone.

  • morechatter

    3 years ago

    Right on Frank

    I knew they had a style just couldn't put my finger on it but used car salesmen its right on. You hit on the nail. And funny think around election time everyone going feel they were sold a lemon.

  • Tieleman

    3 years ago

    Tieleman on his donations

    First - congratulations to my 24 hours colleague Sean Holman on a truly great story that is far from over.

    Second - Luke Skywalker is really in outer space. Yes, I give money to the NDP - and in fact, CanWest Global got the amount wrong - it's a fair bit more!

    But I have also contributed to Vision Vancouver through my company - it is incorporated and anyone can find out easily that I own it.

    Sean Holman's whole point is that the gaming and bingo industry folks were not being straightforward about who was giving - they made other corporate or individual donations to apparently mask that they were coming from gambling owners.

    My case is straightforward. I own one company, and it is clear who owns it.

    Third - unfortunately, the BC Liberal government - and to be fair - the NDP government before them - has failed to put any sensible donation legislation in place for municipalities.

    Political donations should be encouraged by making them tax creditable. There should be spending limits and full accountability to voters.

    Until then what it means is that business owners like myself can make corporate donations as a business expense, while individual donors get no credit for their contributions. Very unfair.

    Lastly - Luke, I do have a deck. It came with my apartment.

    I don't have a gaming license or bingo hall - I wish I did, as I'd be rolling in money.

    Meanwhile, it's you who is rolling in red herrings.

    Bill Tieleman

  • Luke Skywalker

    3 years ago

    Bill...

    I was not insinuating anything... really!

    Reading the relatively recent media coverage regarding your donations, I did notice that you donated individually in one respect and corporately in the other.

    So it was obvious to take same as an example in terms of the referenced story.

    Quote:
    Luke Skywalker is really in outer space

    Good one! :) But most people that I know characterize me as pretty "down to earth".

    Quote:
    Luke, I do have a deck. It came with my apartment.

    But you were still Glen Clark's political strategist. ;)

    Quote:
    Meanwhile, it's you who is rolling in red herrings.

    Bill, I hate fish. Hate it. Read Herring, Yellow-Tailed Tuna... you name it

    Bill, I wasn't attempting to take a personal swipe (as you unfortunately heed) and I do like your journalistic work!

  • SharingIsGood

    3 years ago

    It sounded when I read it, Bill

    Having endured Luke Skywalker for what seems like years at The Tyee, it has been my experience:

    Rather than face a nasty truth about Gordon Campbell &/or the BC Liberal Party, Luke seems to swipe at just about anyone he can find outside his party in order to change the topic. If he can't find a way to deflect the topic, Luke loves to minimize the negative actions of Campbell and the Liberals. He can often be found to be twisting and amplifying any negative half-truths he can conjure up about the NDP that is now filled with many new MLAs. What a spinster!

    It is my experience that Luke loves to compare BC to when the NDP did excellent work in maintaining social and educational supports during very low commodity prices with the Campbell Government that has been doing a horrible job of managing the province during world record commodity prices. The trouble is, Luke doesn't understand that there is more to quality of life than an over-inflated GDP. It has been eight years, and people are not better off. The government had good economic weather and did not prepare for the huge storm that is only just beginning to take form.

    Luke always leaves out the bit about Campbell selling off the province's resources and farming out of the province's work to corporations outside of the province. He avoids talking about the tens of billions of P-3 bills that this government has contracted for us to pay; and we will own none of the infrastructure! Luke thinks Campbell is a great guy for making us pay for the health care buildings, hydro-electric power plants and the like so foreign and out-of-province corporations like Accenture and General Electric can collect money off of our labour and our energy.

    He has, at his fingertips, polls and government documents that seemingly come to him directly from his desk top. I am a great researcher and I often can't find the source of the documents he has at the ready. He is so fast with those heavily slanted point form "facts and figures", one might think he works directly for the Premier, himself.

    I wonder how much Luke will likes your jounalistic work if you publish more of it here, Bill. I think the Tyee needs a timely piece on the Basi-Virk proceedings.

  • zalm

    3 years ago

    ROTFLMAO

    "Methinks that ya should talk to former BC New Democrat premier Mike Harcourt.

    Not only did centrist Harcourt perceive COPE to be "too" left-wing,

    So now the NDP is "centrist"? This is rich!

    So, Luke, can Carol count on your vote in the next election? You self-proclaimed centrist, you?

  • Skywalker

    3 years ago

    Distinction to be noted

    Please be carefull not to confuse me with that other Skywalker. He has a Luke in front.

  • David Beers

    3 years ago

    Administrator

    Sharing Is Good, Bill has fulfilled your wishes

    Tieleman's timely piece on the Basi-Virk proceedings last night was posted on the Tyee's political blog, The Hook.

    http://thetyee.ca/Blogs/TheHook/Rights-Justice/2008/11/27/CrimeClaim/

  • G West

    3 years ago

    Thanks David

    I hope readers won't stop there though.

    They should also check out BC Mary's blog for a comprehensive archive of material on the case:
    http://bctrialofbasi-virk.blogspot.com/

  • SharingIsGood

    3 years ago

    Thanks David

    I am most happy to see that you are not letting this story, this continuing travesty of democracy, go without being reported upon.

  • Romeogolf

    3 years ago

    And the action?

    Will it actually come to anything, i.e. the perps put in jail? I doubt it.

  • RickW

    3 years ago

    G West

    I tired acdessing BC Mary's blog using your link (as have severalother people), and it comes up "operation aborted". Dare I think the obvious.........?

  • SharingIsGood

    3 years ago

    rickw and Romeogolf

    rickw
    For some reason BC Mary's blog is not working. I tried getting to it through several different portals; all had the same outcome as you did. It is fine with me if you think the obvious!

    Romeogolf: even if no one gets thrown in the slammer, if the information is published enough, the electorate may ditch the Liberals.

  • G West

    3 years ago

    Try using firefox instead of Internet Explorer

    There is a problem with the Google Maps API server and it doesn't see to recognize the request...I just got in using Firefox though.

  • BC Mary

    3 years ago

    BC Mary is having a bit of trouble, all right ...

    And I can't make an easy entry to The Legislature Raids myself (on Firefox) either. Today, I also get that Google Maps API message every time.

    I go past the message and -- with difficulty -- prepare a new posting but some things are impossible and the site itself is showing signs of corruption.

    My own guess that it's another issue with Bloggerworld and/or the Internet.

    The cry for help is out to Koot but he's having a happy time immersed in music these days so I haven't heard back yet.

    Thanks to all, especially G West and RickW for input. I hate to think of visitors not being able to read the Legislature Raids or contribute ... there's much to report and discuss at this critical turning point in the Basi-Virk Trial.

    You don't suppose ... ? Naaaaa.

    The curious thing is that the visitor-count went way UP yesterday.

    .

  • morechatter

    3 years ago

    How about those Cash Stores?

    How much are they donating? The amount of money they get for giving out a loan is criminal as its as much as 50%. And who are they lending money to well the disabled and elderly who are unable to eat through the month or drug addicts along with the mentally disabled as they lend them money at the charge of fifty percent of their welfare or pensions or disability cheques leaving them penniless as they end up with 50% of their cheques on welfare day or less as money store bleeds the poor. I know Campbell was lobbied by these groups and of course had no problem letting them have clients sign away their gst and pst and life. Only in BC and America of course do cash stores phone up drug addicts to see if they could use some cash before their cheques come out as stores get them to sign them away.

  • morechatter

    3 years ago

    And lets not forget the working poor

    As they rob them of what little money they have as they try to make it from pay cheque to pay cheque so I'm certain these cash stores must be doing something for the BC government as Liberals have made it highly profitable for them as they guage the low income and the sick and infirm with out of control charges.

  • morechatter

    3 years ago

    Luke Sky walker

    Whats the number on Cocaine users here in BC and particulary Vancouver as I know its out of control as rumors ran rampant of dealers being shaken up by cops and having their coke and cash taken by the cops and then let go. Also rumors of cops doing drugs in allies in their cars and people in the neighborhood talk about the bizarre sightings. Rumor or fact I guess its all police work but apparently their pretty busy rounding up the bums as reports talk about drug and alcohol use increase dramatically. Meth is down thank goodness but Coke is right up their as drug dealers are everywhere and despite having a technical recession were you have negative growth in two consecutive periods putting profits up in smoke. Here the profits are the smoke and its major, major money and crime but yet it prospers and grows and that makes you wonder why? Where do the profits go well I am certain some are ending up in Liberal pockets for the election as its another business Campbell has made very, very lucrative.

  • G West

    3 years ago

    Others have found the Leg Raids site

    can be accessed through proxy.org.

  • North of Hope

    3 years ago

    Morality in gov't

    When the NDP were in power, and they had a problem with gambling, those with responsibility resigned. With the BC Liberals, those with responsibility shout remember the NDP in the 90's and they do NOTHING. That is a major difference between the BC Liberals and the BC NDP. The NDP know how to accept responsibility while the BC Liberals do nothing but bluster and dig us in deeper into their immoral morass.

  • ME2

    3 years ago

    Zalm

    Thanks for your post above "A pile of horsefeathers" (2 days ago).

    It put me in mind of yet another reason I disliked Clark's gov't so much - its pursuit of gambling. I seem to remember that he was envisioning a huge downtown waterfront casino / convention center, as an investment vehicle for union pension funds.

    It is instructive to see how leadership which holds views contrary to a Party's traditions can be put in place by a special interest group, in this case, the unions.

    I wonder if he and his cynical buddy Dan Miller feel any shame.

  • zalm

    3 years ago

    shame?

    Of course not. But I hope this is not a slag against union pension funds for engaging in the same greedy operations that corporate owners do. Ban the corporate form of ownership and make business owners personally responsible, and there won't be any need for unions either.

    But I'm sure that wasn't what you meant.

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