Defusing Family Violence
'Men Speak Up' targets silence, and pain, in resource towns.
Workers urged to look for signs.
In the days before he allegedly killed his daughter, Blair Donnelly had been acting strangely at work. People noticed, but no one knew exactly what to say or do. Then, on Nov. 23, 2006, the 48-year-old Kitimat pulp mill worker acted upon a message he thought he'd gotten from God. According to reports on the trial, he'd originally planned to kill his wife, but found his 16-year-old daughter at home that night and stabbed her to death instead.
British Columbia has a growing list of horrible crimes men have committed against their wives and children. In Merritt, Allan Dwayne Schoenborn is charged with killing* his three children while his wife was out of the house; in Victoria, Peter Kyun Joon Lee murdered his wife, child and in-laws in the family home in Oak Bay then turned the gun on himself; in Quatsino, Jay Handel was convicted on six counts of first degree murder in the premeditated slaying of his children.
Donnelly's strange behavior had been noted outside of the pulp mill where he worked -- he went to church and had friends -- but it may be that those in the workplace, where people rely on each other for eight hours a day, are in a unique position to respond.
If his coworkers had been able to take action, it might have made a huge difference, said Sandra Beggs, a Queen Charlotte-based victim assistance worker, who is involved in a project aimed at resource workers in British Columbia.
Early clues, lingering trauma
The goal of the year-long anti-violence initiative called Renewing Resources for Safer Communities is to help workplaces find a way to respond to employees dealing with violence in relationships. At a recent workshop in Terrace, union members from the pulp mill in Kitimat were still feeling the trauma of the two-year-old murder, Beggs says.
The men said there had been all sorts of clues in the workplace and they had been cautious around Donnelly, says Beggs.
If the company or the union had a policy in place to help workers deal with a man they knew was in trouble, that might have helped, says Beggs.
A strong workplace policy on violence in relationships is one thing, but men must also be willing to break the cone of silence that often surrounds offensive behavior.
Whether an intervention would have helped in Donnelly's case may never be known, but silence can become the permission an abuser needs to act.
Developing workplace policies
To help encourage men to speak out against violence in relationships, the project is focused on forestry and mining -- two male-dominated industries -- says Beggs. It's not that violence is more common in these industries, but the two organizations partnered in the project, the B.C. Association of Specialized Victim Assistance and Counselling Programs and Ending Relationship Abuse Society of B.C., are committed to working in rural and isolated communities and making sure men are involved, she says.
"The majority of offenders are men, but the majority of men are not offenders," says Dr. Harry Stefanakis, the chair of the Ending Relationship Abuse Society of BC.
He was one of the co-facilitators of the workshop in Terrace and said another group came with the story of a man who came in to a workplace with a gun, removed his wife's belongings and told the employer she was quitting.
This led the company to develop policies around violence in the workplace but they wanted to do more. Stefanakis hopes other corporations will follow a similar lead.
The intent of the workshop is not to train the workers to become therapists, but to make them more aware of the community resources that are out there already, he says.
Layoffs, stress and anger
But even if a man sought help, he may be hard pressed to find a program in rural communities like Terrace.
That's why Dr. Stefanakis hopes raising awareness among men and at workplaces will help create pressure to increase resources, whether it is through government programs or corporations coming up with programs to deal with potentially costly human resource issues stemming from situations that reach crisis points.
"When someone is being abusive at home, that behavior is likely to show up in the workplace," says Robin Austin, NDP MLA for Skeena, the riding Donnelly lived in when he murdered his daughter. Austin appears in a 30-minute film along with 15 other high-profile men called Men Speak Up: Ending Violence Together as part of the Renewing Resources project.
Austin, a former social worker living in Terrace, once worked at the local jail and met men who had been incarcerated for spousal abuse. "Most felt extreme guilt. They knew it was wrong, but their lives had become so chaotic," he said.
In his experience, chaos is often brought on by financial reasons. With downturns and layoffs in the forest industry and other resource sectors, the stresses mount, says Austin. The men he met would serve three to six month sentences and then be put on a bus back into the same situation they left. In prison they had access to counselling, but at home those supports don't exist.
Social problems in his constituency can be extreme. For example, some First Nations reserves in the northwest have more than 90 per cent unemployment. "People are so isolated and trapped." he said. Women can't even hitchhike on the highway to get away from any trouble, he says, referring to Highway 16, where 18 women have gone missing over the last four decades. "It's not a safe place."
To make matters worse, the kinship system in many communities means it's even harder for a woman to find a safe place in a crisis situation.
"If the abuser is well-connected to an important family, people don't want to be seen helping the victim." Not to mention that if the social worker works out of the band office, everyone knows who is going to see her, he says.
'Men Speak Up'
Spousal assault statistics only show the tip of an iceberg. According to fact sheets provided by Renewing Resources, 10,273 incidents of violence in relationships in B.C. were reported in 2005. But statistics also show that 72 per cent of assaults are not reported to the police. Although assaults happen both ways, 74 per cent involve a male offender.
The voices of men involved in the Men Speak Up film come loud and clear. "Violence against women is simply unacceptable, and it's up to men to be part of the solution," said B.C. Federation of Labour president Jim Sinclair.
"It's not a women's problem. Women are the victims. Men are the perpetrators. Therefore they have to be part of the solution," said Liberal member of parliament Ujjal Dosanjh.
"There aren't any barriers. You can be a poor person or a rich person. You can be part of any ethnic group. It doesn't matter. It transcends all barriers," said Howard Chow, spokesperson for the Vancouver Police department.
"If the minority of men involved in violence against women realize that the majority do not accept their behavior, it will be much easier for them to understand that this is unacceptable," said Harry Bains, NDP MLA for Surrey-Newton.
The harm in turning away
But men in the film also speak of times when they didn't take action -- when they knew someone who was thinking of violence or making excuses for violence, but didn't know what to do.
"It was like the kind of stuff people don't show the world, right. What happens behind the door or the window of your home," said Corky Evans, NDP MLA for Nelson-Creston, of a situation he encountered several years ago. "There was this obvious long term, year-after-year kind of bullying."
Steve Hunt, director of the United Steelworkers Union, says one of the reasons his union got involved and why he spoke on the film, is to try to educate employers so interventions can happen before a crisis is reached.
"When someone gets fired, it might be gambling or drugs, but when we've been able to step in, we've found there might also be a problem at home," he said.
Being aware of the signs and what goes on in communities and in the workplace is the first step, he says.
The film will be available to union members at all education opportunities and he hopes that will provoke discussions around the issues.
Silence a 'tragedy'
In January of 2008, Donnelly was deemed not criminally responsible for the murder and his attack on his child was attributed to a mental disorder that first revealed itself 12 years before the slaying. But Dr. Stefanakis says the fact remains that Donnelly's behavior manifested in him killing a member of his family. Why did the message from God tell him to target his family, he asks.
He suggests there is a cultural acceptance of the power imbalance that turns women and children into the property. It's these core values that he hopes men speaking out against violence will help to address.
In the film, Dr. Stefanakis quotes Martin Luther King: "The tragedy of violence is not only the violence caused by those we consider bad, but the silence of those we consider good."
To that end, he hopes men, the majority of whom are not violent, will find the courage to speak out against actions behaviors and attitudes that lead to the abuse of women.
*The line noted with the asterisk was corrected at 4:50 p.m., June 2.
Related Tyee stories:
- When Known Stalkers Kill, Should Police Pay?
In a case with sweeping implications, Bonnie Mooney is suing the RCMP for failing to stop her murderous partner. - How We See 'Missing Women'
If we care, we must consider them human beings, period. - Bullies and Jerks
Reflections on sports culture and masculinity.
![[Tyee]](http://thetyee.cachefly.net/ui/img/ico_fishie.png){kind=small}
- Appeal court upholds ruling on protection of orca habitat
- Foreign takeover score is 14,218 to two calculates Mel Hurtig, who speaks Saturday
- Abbott blames teachers' union, hints at legislation
- Greens exaggerating fracking fears 'to control you': Santorum
- Prime Minister Harper mixes oil with human rights on visit to China
- Civil jury finds former BC premier Vander Zalm guilty of defamation
- Vancouver theatre runs down curtain on section of BC's outdated liquor laws
- BC Premier Clark to replace throne speech with radio appearance
- Shadow Workers of the World, Revolt!
- 'The Kids Are All Right'
- 'Leave Your Shoes On'
- Glaciers, BC Hydro's Melting 'Batteries'
- Frankie Rose Makes Life Tougher for Journalists
- Too Much Energy Used to Mine, Move Bitumen Says BC Firm
- Becoming the Ethical Hunter
- Could SOPA Pervade Canadian Copyright Law?
- Would You Buy a Used Car from These Libs?
- Economist Calls Gateway Pipeline an Inflationary 'Threat'
- Shadow Workers of the World, Revolt!
- Economist Calls Gateway Pipeline an Inflationary 'Threat'
- Bill Rees' Last Lecture
- Too Much Energy Used to Mine, Move Bitumen Says BC Firm
- Is Canada Ignoring Signs of a Coming Economic Collapse?
- How First Nations Are Gearing Up for Legal Battle Against Gateway
- Eleven Oily Questions for Every MP
- Harper in China
- BC Child Care Advocates in Geneva to Complain to UN
- Portrait of a Riot
- Shadow Workers of the World, Revolt!
- Make It the Canadian Webcasting Corporation
- Harper in China
- When the Prize Is a Chance to Toil on BC's Farms
- Three Ryan Gosling Pickup Techniques that Don't Work in Real Life
- BC, You Love You
- Would You Buy a Used Car from These Libs?
- Foreign Trade Zones Eyed for Vancouver, Prince Rupert, Prince George
- Skating into 2012, More Resolutions
- Glaciers, BC Hydro's Melting 'Batteries'
- Scientists unveil bold new definition of addiction
- The most hellish ‘internships’: China sends 100,000 teens to work for a pittance at Foxconn making gadgets for Apple, others
- World Press Photo Contest: Editor’s choice pictures of the day
- Banks come first in a Greek rescue plan
- We’re more unequal than you think
- Cambodia launched restaurants for vultures
- Flavored vodka: sign of the imminent apocalypse?
- With Obama’s new foreclosure deal big banks win again
32
Login or register to post comments
nightbloom
3 years ago
Quote:"The majority of
Is it not already well established that women are statistically more likely to use violence (broadly defined) against their partners?
BC Mary
3 years ago
The canary just dropped dead in the mineshaft.
As British Columbia's legendary Tree Farm Licences are given away, B.C. forest-based industries and Forestry jobs vanish forever with nothing to replace them. The men who, for generations, had been trained for those jobs, in that industry, under those specialized conditions, are abandoned and they know it. But this can be corrected by means of counseling?
What kind of sick society have we become, where no mention is made of reclamation and reforestation of the forests, which is the only cure for the human tragedies unfolding.
How weird is it, that we can afford all the counselling and hospitalization we'll need as desperation develops throughout British Columbia, but we can't afford to keep our forest lands -- and our forest-based industries -- intact?
BC Mary
3 years ago
Counseling should begin here ...
HEARINGS DEMANDED FOR JORDAN RIVER PLANS
Forest firm's bid needs public review, green group claims
Judith Lavoie,
Times Colonist - Monday, June 02, 2008
Lawyers for the Sea-to-Sea Greenbelt Society are calling for the provincial approving officer to hold public hearings before deciding on the application by Western Forest Products for 319 subdivisions on sensitive stretches of land around Jordan River, Otter Point and Shirley. (Snip) ...
The submission, supported by community, environmental, recreation and labour groups, and some local First Nations, says it would be unacceptable for Bob Wylie, the highways ministry approving officer, to make a decision on the application in secret.
"My client takes the position that this is the most momentous subdivision application in Capital Regional District history," lawyer Irene Faulkner wrote in the submission.
"It would not only enhance urban sprawl and destroy our forests and wild coast, it would be a catastrophe for climate change," she said.
"In this day and age, such momentous decisions should not be made without full public hearings."
The forest company applied to develop the acreages, ranging from two to five hectares, just before the CRD brought in controversial bylaws rezoning much of the southwest corner of Vancouver Island to 120-hectare minimum.
The zoning changes were in response to WFP trying to sell more than 2,500 hectares of former tree farm licence land, stretching from Sooke Potholes to Port Renfrew, to developer Ender Ilkay.
WFP made the subdivision application during a hiatus when the bylaws were waiting for the signature of Community Services Minister Ida Chong.
That means the applications are grandfathered for one year.
As the subdivisions do not require rezoning, the decision will be made by Wylie.
Ray Zimmerman of the Sea-to-Sea Greenbelt Society said Wylie is in a position to permanently undermine the public's vision for the entire region and to blast a massive hole in the western side of the Regional Growth Strategy.
"A series of backroom decisions -- including the deletion of the TFL lands and the delay in the minister signing the new CRD bylaws -- has brought us to this point," Zimmerman said.
"We say the region's future must not be transformed without finally giving the public a chance to have its say." (Snip) ...
nightbloom
3 years ago
I strongly doubt that there
I strongly doubt that there is a general excess of counselling services...and very little of it is tailored to men. In fact, services and outreach option for men to help them address a whole range of problems - from domestic assault to career stress to sexual abuse - is extremely rare to come by. The irony of a system built on the principle of male expendability is that even when men snap it's all their fault.
Suck it up and shut up, and if you can't then you're a failure as a man. That's what keeps the system running. Pretty effective, except that it's astonishing that men don't snap more often than they do. The sensational and spectacular cases cited by this article are extremely, extremely rare examples.
BC Mary
3 years ago
Saving the costs of justice
Quote from Heather Ramsay article:
Allan Dwayne Schoenborn killed his three children while his wife was out of the house;
Isn't this jumping the gun a little? I thought it was "innocent until proven guilty" even in B.C.
VERY GOOD POINT, AND THANKS. WE HAVE MADE THE APPROPRIATE CHANGE. -- TYEE EDITOR
G West
3 years ago
I think it's a lot more complicated than that nightbloom
Furthermore, the study (Steinmetz, 1977-78) that suggested female intimate partner violence was more of a problem than its reciprocal has been criticized for its methodology.
I just don't think it's possible to generalize in any meaningful way about the phenomenon. Maybe violence in intimate relationships isn't a 'gender' issue at all.
Do lesbian relationships tend to be more violent than male/male homosexual partnerships? I think it would be interesting to look at studies that explore the phenomenon.
In fact, I wonder if the dependent variable isn't poverty.
Good point about legal 'innocence' Mary.
I welcome respectful comments to my posts at Tyee.
G West
Geoff
3 years ago
Jumping the gun...
Good point, Mary. We've now corrected that line.
Thanks for the heads up.
Geoff.
nightbloom
3 years ago
There are more recent
There are more recent studies, and their methodology hasn't been questioned. You'll find that most of the received truths about gender that were brow-beaten into our heads by the campus stalinists throughout the '80s and '90s (and that with a vengeance following the execrable and diabolical but totally anomalous Gamil Gharbi/Marc Lepine shootings at Concordia, which occurred three months into my sophomore year) have been utterly debunked by the data.
Just to provide one example from a massive catalogue of such debunkings: Factor in sexual assault stats within the almost entirely male prison system in the U.S. and you get a rate of male rape victimization that dwarfs the worst paranoid nightmares of the feminist left, and totally up-ends the feminist sexual-oppression narrative. The whole kit and kaboodle was dreamt up to buttress liberal-left ideology on gender, and it's a trite pile of shite.
That isn't to say oppression isn't happening, but the meta-narratives that have been spun out of it by liberal ideologues, campus chickenhawks, and grant-hungry social-welfare agencies to explain why society is the way it is are total balderdash.
G West
3 years ago
Like I said, it's complicated
But your observation about male on male violence doesn't necessarily mean that the major victims in heterosexual marriages aren't women and the major perpetrators aren't men. Because I believe they are - in both cases.
Of course there are reporting issues and gender identification issues which complicate the picture as well.
Many men may not want to report examples of being battered by their wives or partners but I'd wager an even larger group of women don't report violence upon their person for dependency reasons - not being in a position to fend financially for themselves it isn't hard to understand why a woman would put up with minor battery for years in certain circumstances.
As I said, it's complicated and it certainly isn't just the actions of your favourite target that cause the problems.
Any review of the literature will indicate that there are a variety of interpretations and arguments which include serious discussions and disagreements - the field is, as they say, in flux.
However anomalous the particular shootings you cite (and ‘Sophomore year’ what’s that all about - are you an American?) there is no doubt that serial killers, from all the evidence I've seen, are almost invariably male.
And, irrespective of how those guys treat their intimate partners - that has to be a problem for man and the way they're raised and socialized.
I welcome respectful comments to my posts at Tyee.
G West
reality_check
3 years ago
And why do guy snaps?
Now that we have 2 person working to make ends meet, trying to pay that 1 million dollar house,... is it any wonder why this is taking place. I echo the sentiment of Nightbloom. Men have to put up or shut up! And when they come home, what do they have to do? Be a good man from Venus and listen to the wife who complains and does not want to solve her problem! WHat happens to a husband who loses his job or does not put bread on the table? Have you seen what happens to the chemist in the movie The insider! She leaves him and takes the kid! There are thousand of cases like that! Lawyers and unscrupulous/bias lobbyist women's groups decide the fate of a husband, who has to be a bad husband 9 times out of 10. The difference between men and women is that men have been raised to shut up and it is time to start to assert our rights. Where are the equal men's studies courses in university? Where are the status of men's groups? Where are the ministry of men's rights? UNicef's response to the Burmese was to help women and children. Men? Are you kidding me? Of course, Unicef is run by a woman! Women know how to work the system: whine, whine, whine (cry, cry, cry) until you get what you want or need! They may be right some of the time, but it is time for men to do the same!
paisley
3 years ago
To bad the author's stats not reasearched
If the author had read the federal report commissioned after Marc Lupine killed those female students in Quebec. The author would have discovered that 67% of incidence's of physical violence between spouse's, women struck the first blow.
Fii
3 years ago
Wow- it never ceases to
Wow- it never ceases to amaze me (and I knew, before I even posted, that there'd be some man stating "What about all the violent women out there wah wah?!") how defensive some men get when this topic comes up.
Reality_check, what the hell is this:
"Where are the equal men's studies courses in university? Where are the status of men's groups? Where are the ministry of men's rights? UNicef's response to the Burmese was to help women and children. Men? Are you kidding me? Of course, Unicef is run by a woman! Women know how to work the system: whine, whine, whine (cry, cry, cry) until you get what you want or need!"
Do you seriously think men are at as much of a physical threat from women (on a global level) as women are from men? Are you freakin' serious??? Is your head buried in the sand?? I wish women didn't need the help of UNICEF, I wish there were no need for a special ministry of women's rights. I wish all women on this planet felt as secure and strong as I do. Whether women strike the first blow or not, Paisley- THEY DON'T END UP SLAUGHTERING THEIR FAMILIES!! WHAT exactly are you people trying to say??? You're freaking me out!
G West
3 years ago
Well put Fii...but, as in most things context is everything
There are some studies that deal with the 'battered' husband syndrome - most of them seem to show more 'symmetry' than anything else.
And these findings are often used to challenge feminist claims of partner violence as part of a problem of gender and power (Currie, 1998). Men's rights groups have often picked up findings (like Steinmetz's) to support their claim that feminist activists and scholars have hidden the problem of husband-abuse from public view (Messner, 1998). Researchers in the family violence tradition have proposed that domestic violence perpetrated by women is a social problem worthy of greater attention and investigation and it probably is(Stets & Straus, 1990; Straus 1993). Unfortunately and sadly, the sex-symmetry controversy has also been used to divert funding from battered women's shelters (Currie, 1998).
Certainly, I am very suspicious about the kinds of actions that 'battered husband' promoters suggest are the appropriate conclusions to draw from very skimpy information.
Most of the studies I've read are unconvincing and leave out important contextual information.
I welcome respectful comments to my posts here at Tyee.
G West
nightbloom
3 years ago
You inadvertently touched on
You inadvertently touched on the heart of the matter: the competition for grant-funding by social welfare agencies. It warps everything. It's about money, not the truth. That's why women's advocates are always obliged to minimize male pain in order to protect their meal-ticket (thereby reinforcing the system of male expendability, and contributing to the victimization of women and children in society by troubled men). That's why troubled men get prison, while troubled women get counseling and welfare. Male expendability.
G West
3 years ago
Oh c'mon nightbloom
Virtually all the studies are 'self' reports.
You know enough about social science to know such reporting is self-serving for both sexes.
Fact is, context (as you're so fond of saying) is everything.
These are chicken and egg arguments - in the end, the real statistics are crime statistics and there is NO rash of beaten and bruised husbands showing up in emergency departments.
When there is, I'll joing one of your drumming groups and do a few yowls in the woods myself.
Until then, cry me a river. Families, of all kinds, need more support - PERIOD,
Males are 'expendable', in my opinion, when they make that kind of claim.
I welcome respectful comments to my posts at Tyee.
G West
nightbloom
3 years ago
Quote:Virtually all the
What? No way bud...whatever it means.
What on earth does that mean? So it's a continual rondo of spin and untruth, ultimately meaningless...and you're okay with that?
No chickens or eggs here, just an attempt to get away from all the spin and the money-getting strategies of social-welfare outfits.
That's hyperbole. Besides, men don't complain - it's against the male code. The econometrics are clear: women are statistically more likely to employ violence (of all kinds) and verbal abuse in relationships.
More erroneous stereotypes from the feminist songbook designed to ridicule and pathologize men who attempt to address this issue in a truthful manner. The Oprah episode you're alluding to is well nigh 20 years old (the one that featured "Iron John" author Willian Bly).
Look around buddy - Nobody's crying here. Families include men. So what's your problem?
NO ONE is expendable. That's the problem with "male feminists". They internalize the worst aspects of the ideology, yet uphold the code of expendability with their eagerness to self-annihilate just to defend it.
Yammer
3 years ago
Of course men are more dangerous than women
You're not crazy, Fii.
The men's advocates have certain points to make in the field of family law.
I don't think that any sane person forgets that our relative size, strength, and social conditioning makes us far more likely than women to use deadly force, whether against women or each other.
I certainly don't. I have been the guy in the elevator that makes the woman shrink into the corner, regardless of the fact that I was trying my best to appear harmless and totally indifferent.
That part sucks, but the answer is not to try to overcome masculinity. After all,
it makes perfect sense that we are like this. We come from those who made it home from the wars. Size and aggression are curses but also gifts.
The answer is not to change our nature but to reframe the conflict.
I believe it was Lt. Worf of Star Trek who put it best: "You look for battles in the wrong place. The true test of a warrior is not without, it is within."
Deco
3 years ago
Disbelief
"The sensational and spectacular cases cited by this article are extremely, extremely rare examples."
I would say the cases cited are the exact opposite of sensational and spectacular. I wouldn't even say the cases were sensationalized on the news. I believe it demonstrates how the judicial system and the health care system still have very big cracks for people to fall in.
A man going on a murderous rampage and killing his whole family may be "rare", but the reality is that a history of violence and abuse existed in that home long before the murders happened. The point is to end the violence before it escalates to that. Furthermore, it's to prevent the children in the home from growing up and not knowing how to deal with these problems in a more constructive and respectful manner.
If we stand up and say we're against violence (not just men's violence against women, but all violence), it doesn't mean we're "anti-man". It simply means we don't think anyone has the right to harm another person (mentally, physically, or sexually)for any reason.
Fii
3 years ago
"That's why women's
"That's why women's advocates are always obliged to minimize male pain in order to protect their meal-ticket"
Meal ticket? Are you in a time warp, Nightbloom?
I agree women can be very emotionally/verbally abusive, to both women and men. I recall, I was about 6 years old, my mum and dad having a big argument (probably about finances, it was around the time my brother was born) and I walked into the kitchen and my dad- not my mum- was crying, because (I think) she had said something hurtful to him about not being able to support the family. I'll never forget that. He knelt down and hugged me and told me not to be scared (I guess I looked pretty stunned to see my dad crying), but this didn't cause him to react with violence toward my mother. He is a very sensitive man and never laid a hand on us. This article is about men speaking up and not being afraid to show their feelings (like my father wasn't afraid to), in hopes that men who ARE afraid to can be helped- before they do something they can't possibly really want to do- it's not about whether women can say or do things that cut to the core. Of course we can!
nightbloom
3 years ago
No, the man who snaps and
No, the man who snaps and commits murder-suicide in the family home is an extremely, extremely rare case, and is not representative of males generally, nor even is he representative of the minority of males who are violent in the family home. That's why I say this article is talking apples and oranges. There's a big difference between a gentle soul who goes insane one day, and the jerk who displays violent/abusive tendencies towards women as a casual aspect of his normal life. Big diff. This article makes no such distinction.
It is also an important piece of the puzzle to remember that the majority of victims of male violence are other males in society.
Nope. If you read my comments, I've been discussing the money-seeking strategies of social-welfare agencies (and their spokespersons). It's the same whether you're talking about women's shelters, gay outreach organizations, what have you. They present the one side of the problem that justifies their budget. They have to. They know as soon as they concede that the problem is bigger than their mission statement, more complex that the mandate described in their annual report, or more nuanced that their organization's goals listed on slide one of their powerpoint presentation or their pre-budget submission, then the money is going to start moving elsewhere. If you don't like the example of women's advocacy, then take a look at what queer advocates and AIDS groups did with the meth issue. Secure government grant funding takes some pretty creative strategy, but let's not fool ourselves into thinking that these strategies are in any way reflective of the entire truth of the matter.
You'll see. As soon as people realize that acknowledging other injustices doesn't take anything away from their fixation on their own "legitimate state-sanctioned victimhood" then everyone else can start healing too. But as I said, it's not about the truth or about healing - it's about money.
G West
3 years ago
How about a little less hyperbole
And a few more facts my friend.
If you don't know what self reports are then I can't help you. They are unreliable for obvious reasons - the material cannot be independently verified. It's hardly a surprise that many men when confronted with the 'fact' that they've broken the cheek bones of their wife/partner would want to spread the blame by asserting that 'she' hit me first.
C'mon! This stuff is notoriously unreliable. I'm no fan of militant feminism much of the time but on this subject I think they have the goods on us. Men are almost always free to walk out on abusive women – the reciprocal is almost never the case – in many cases because the shelters and safe houses and helping services have gone the same way Tony Clement wants to take INSITE.
Men have more power and more strength and we exercise it, sadly, and all too often in a physically dominant way.
Nothing left wing or radical about it - just plain facts.
You show me why all the folks with the injuries in emergency are women and why all the people who have restraining orders against them are men.
I think you're the one who's fooling himself - especially when you trot out the same old queer politics which hasn't a thing to do with the issues under discussion.
There are a lot more big jerks out there apparently and the rest of us men have a good deal to live down.
It goes with the territory.
I welcome respectful comments to my posts at Tyee.
G West
nightbloom
3 years ago
You're talking nonsense,
You're talking nonsense, Gwest. The econometrics behind these stats are reliable, and their margin of error is fairly standard. And you haven't addressed my critique that this article has selected the most pathological examples and applied them to the general population. There's a big difference between a well-adjusted male suddenly "snapping" and committing murder, and the casual abuser. Denying this difference might suit the blinkered polarities favoured by gender-ideologues, but it's not reality. Can we not be grown-ups and talk about the whole reality of the matter?
"We" are not exercising our physical strength to dominate anyone. If you're going to make a pitch based on collective guilt, then you have to look at the whole picture.
You clearly haven't spent much time in an emergency room.
The point about AIDS groups was merely to illustrate a similar point about advocacy strategy without singling out women's groups. I apply my critique across the social-welfare sector as a whole. They have to say what they say, even when they know its not the whole truth. They'd lose their funding otherwise. We have to be mature, thinking, reflective citizens by applying our own insight and by taking their sell-jobs with a grain of salt.
G West
3 years ago
Selective quotation and no sense of context
Old tricks - but not very effective.
The simple fact that women show up bruised and battered and men who end up with the law trying to restrain them is the immutable barrier all the tricked out studies and crocodile tears about female violence toward men cannot overcome.
The fact that typical 'male' hegemony has tried to use questionable self-reporting social science report to restrict funding for programs that assist battered women and terrorized children is just another crime that needs addressing.
Some feminists are a pain in the ass - but they are nowhere nearly as annoying as the men who try to argue black is white on this issue - in my experience.
Yep, there are battered males in the emergency rooms I know about - and not more than a miniscule fraction of them are there for anything other than being beaten on by other MEN.
And there would be a lot more women in the emergency wards if their violent and domineering male 'partners' weren't preventing them from showing up.
I welcome respectful comments to my posts at Tyee.
G West
nightbloom
3 years ago
"Tricked out studies" ...
"Tricked out studies" ... "crocodile tears"...? Give your head a shake Gwest - there's none of that here. And now you're accusing the social sciences being a "male hegemony" for taking econometric studies at face value rather than the self-referential pronouncements of activists, ideologues and french theorists with pointy heads?
I mean really, when was the last time you were on campus? The suggestion that the humanities and social sciences are a "male hegemony" is absolutely laughable. Your absurd cliché reminds me of a black & white photo of a Yale lecture hall taken in the early 1950s filled with earnest 20-something men in collars & tweed jackets smoking pipes in their seats and striking poses of deep contemplation. GWest, get off it already. Besides, I know plenty of young 20-something women who only wish there was a tad more "male hegemony" in their arts & social science lectures. The running joke is if there's a man in the class he must be gay. The girls are getting a little lonely.
Besides you're missing the fundamental point: this is only an "either/or", a "win/lose" scenario in the eyes of the ideologues and those who whose meal-ticket is based on one-sided distortions of reality. That's the box in which social advocates do their thinking. They can't acknowledge anything that isn't encompassed within their raison d'etre. Thinking people have to be a little wiser than that. It takes absolutely nothing away from women-in-need to acknowledge the full reality of violence, abuse, power, and the psychological limits of regular people trying to find their way in a perverse world. This article is comparing apples and oranges on several levels.
And I still say that the bizarre stories of perfectly functional family men suddenly going berserk at age 45 after being laid off is totally, totally, totally different from the "casual" everyday sexism and violence of the serial abuser. If you want to compare the two, you've gotta zoom out and take in a lot more of the picture.
profeminist
3 years ago
counselling for men?
A week ago I took part in the 30th Annual Walk for Rape Relief in Vancouver. I saw many men actively doing something about violence against women. Here is the link:
http://www.rapereliefshelter.bc.ca/walkathon/index.html
Rather than counsellors, we need to listen to the women around us. And one thing we definitely need to talk about is how we can get active to support the struggle for women's equality. It would be great to see many, many more men at events like the Walk for Rape Relief.
Deco
3 years ago
back to your first comment -
back to your first comment - if you want to "broadly define" violence then how is comparing the murderer who "snaps" and the "casual abuser" (which by the way is a term that makes me feel nautious) apples to oranges. It's all violence. Also, do you really believe "gentle souls" just go "insane" one day?
I would like to address your critique: "this article has selected the most pathological examples and applied them to the general population"
Men who are well adjusted don't "snap" and kill or even use any violence. There is a big difference between the murderer and the abuser and there are a number of similarities too. The most obvious one being that they're both using violence to have control and power over a situation or another person.
I don't think this article is comparing apples to oranges but rather Galas to Granny Smiths. This is not an attack on us, it's pointing out the extreme tragedy that domestic violence can result in.
The comments you've left in response to this article are concerning. Nightbloom, you might disagree with several points of the article but it's about Men Speak Up; asking men to be part of the solution.
In using terms like "casual abuser" and saying it's apples and oranges, you're minimizing the abuse that thousands of people are victim to each year in BC.
YlaReina
3 years ago
The White Ribbon campaign
There's a world-wide campaign, based on leadership taken in Canada, for men working to end men's violence against women.
See www.whiteribbon.ca for more information.
nightbloom
3 years ago
Yes, I do believe that
Yes, I do believe that perfectly well-adjusted men who have never harmed anyone can suddenly "snap". There are many ways that they "snap", and few of them are as far-out as the examples provided in the article. Most people can think of examples of this peculiar phenomenon. Give it a try. We only notice the headline-grabbing cases, or the ones that present activists with a platform, not the garden variety nervous breakdowns. If you're an adult male who hasn't noticed an instance of this before among your peers, then there's a good chance you were part of the problem (or at least an oblivious by-stander to it). It's something we need to learn more about, but we won't because of the long-standing censorious ideological climate governing gender-politics and what can/cannot be spoken of. Anyone who discusses it from a non-feminist point of view is "nauseating" "concerning" "offensive" and anything else that will shut down the true dialogue.
Yes, I believe there are "casual abusers". If you don't already know intuitively what I mean by that, then you've lead a very, very sheltered life, and I'm envious. To be clear: these are the people for whom all sorts of abusive behaviour is second nature, and is a regular and unselfconscious part of their routine interaction with family, partners, coworkers, or even perfect strangers. Everyone should learn to recognize these people. If you're still confused about it, then ask a woman. Just spare me the "nautious" routine. You sound like a drama-queen.
I'm not minimizing anything - I'm maximizing it to such an extent that you seem to be on sensory overload (or at least nauseated). That's a way of shutting out opposing viewpoints in order to turn dialogue back to monologue. If anything, you're minimizing just how much larger the problem of violence in our society really is. As I said: acknowledging the extent of the issue doesn't take anything away from women-in-need. Unless, of course, you're worried about having the share a wee bit of grant-funding for new programs that will actually do something help troubled men. You seem to be more comfortable lecturing them than reaching out to them. Have you ever asked yourself why that is?
snert
3 years ago
Deco
Mental illness comes in many forms. It's got nothing to do with men or women it's the symptom of a disease that can afflict both sexes. Figure out how to treat that and the violence will stop.
G West
3 years ago
Nightbloom my friend, If I'd said ...
"...that the humanities and social sciences are a "male hegemony" is absolutely laughable"... it would have been risible.
I didn't say that though - as usual you attack what you'd like to think I wrote instead of confronting what I actually DID write.
This is what I said: "The fact that typical 'male' hegemony has tried to use questionable self-reporting social science report(s) to restrict funding for programs that assist battered women and terrorized children is just another crime that needs addressing."
Remember.
I'm on campus every day by the way - I'm just not too impressed by any of the social scientists I see there of either gender.
In my experience the honest researchers in the field are hopelessly outnumbered by clones who spend much of their time manipulating results and massaging them into the 'desired' conclusions. There's a 'male' hegemony; a 'female' hegemony; a gay and Trans- gendered hegemony, several religious and political hegemonies and a few other special pleading varieties that seem to change with the weather…none of these groups is capable of speaking to each other in a meaningful and respectful way a lot of the time.
What else is new? As I’ve told you before, get hold of Richard Russo’s excellent book ‘Straight Man’, read it and have yourself a few laughs.
The immutable fact for me is that men beat the shit out of women and children with a depressing regularity which makes me question my own masculine identity a lot of the time.
I don't care what 'box' these characters come out of or how long they've been there and under what auspices. They need to take responsibility for their actions.
Of course there are exceptions to the rule and some women do lose control and beat on their partners - but, that's hardly a reason to re-invent the wheel or to pretend that women and children don't frequently need the kind of help and protection you seem perfectly willing to deny them.
There is no smoke without a lot of fire nightbloom and most of the people getting the stick are women, not men.
I welcome respectful comments to my posts at Tyee. I also encourage accurate references to what I've written.
G West
nightbloom
3 years ago
This will be my last post on
This will be my last post on the topic, since this discussion seems to have run its course. I'll wrap up by saying that expanding our perspective on violence beyond the feminist gender-myopic won't take anything away from women. It would do a world of good. Continuing to suggest that I'm somehow trying to take something away is dishonest and censorious. No one here is trying to deny assistance to women who need it - the reverse is true (men are being denied). Show me where I have argued that women should be denied assistance.
I've learned that it's important to occasionally look at gender-issues from a non-Marxist-Feminist perspective. The issue of male violence, male expendability, and the chronic invisibility of troubled men in society (except on the rare occasion that they do mortal harm to someone other than themselves), and the lack of services and outreach for men in difficulty is a travesty. Unfortunately the ideology and money-seeking strategies of people who claim to speak on behalf of women have become a significant obstacle to getting help to the men who need it, because they know the resources are finite and they worry that it will come out of their own pot. So let's no pretend the resistance to men's services has anything to do with the truth or the level of need - it has to do with money, money, money.
G West
3 years ago
Um! This'll be my final
Um! This'll be my final too.
If you were as willing to spend money, money, money on non-gendered issues such as housing, health and poverty I'd have no argument with you.
Violence and stress is a terrible problem that would respond much better to a multi-faceted approach whereby all the various decision making and tax spending authorities and opinion-makers recognized peoples' common interests and spent a lot less effort catering to special interests.
Whether those are male, female, black, white or transgendered.
On that point (although I doubt he really 'means' it) I'm an Obama fan.
It's time we stopped playing the blame game.
Have a nice weekend.
I welcome respectful comments to my posts at Tyee.
G West