First Nations Leader to Premier: Carbon Credits 'Belong to Us'
FNs not consulted on new emissions target laws: Porter.
Dave Porter of BC First Nations Summit.
As "the landowners of British Columbia," First Nations are entitled to profits from the potential sale of carbon credits, a First Nations Summit leader says.
"If there is going to be a recognition of carbon credits as a trading commodity, then we believe that those credits should belong to us, right?" Dave Porter told The Tyee. "Clear and simple."
The international drive to lower greenhouse gas emissions has created a multi-billion-dollar global market for carbon credits. Although carbon trading schemes are at a very early stage in Canada, the provincial government is looking at ways of selling credits.
For example, because forests absorb carbon dioxide from the atmosphere, polluters might be able to offset their emissions by paying for reforestation in B.C.
It's not clear at this point, however, how such a system would work or who should get the cash.
Carbon credits: 'New money'
First Nations believe that "in many areas the carbon credits should be recognized as an extension of First Nations jurisdiction and land ownership," said Porter, one of three members of the First Nations Summit Task Group, the political executive of the First Nations Summit.
"If you ask the question, 'How does the carbon credit accrue? Who does it accrue to?' it accrues to the landowner, doesn't it?" said Porter. "And so we're the landowners.
"And so it would follow by extension of that ownership that if there's an economic benefit to be derived from the utilization of that land and its resources, then the resources should flow to us."
Porter said that the government has always argued against sharing existing revenues with First Nations because that would leave less money to pay for services such as schools and transit for non-aboriginal British Columbians.
Carbon credits, however, represent "new money," Porter said. "This is the new economy. These are dollars that could possibly flow from other parts of the globe into British Columbia."
Face to face with Premier Campbell
Porter told The Tyee that he set out this claim to carbon credit revenues at a recent meeting with Premier Gordon Campbell and the cabinet committee for climate action.
He said he also argued that First Nations must play a role in designing the carbon credit system.
"We're saying to the government . . . if they're going to set some sort of public exchange in place in which to sanction or regulate that kind of trading activity, we want to be involved in the design of that process.
"We don't want to find out that government has moved ahead and set something up that doesn't work and doesn't reflect our interests."
While there was some discussion of the First Nations' position among the politicians, Porter said, he is still waiting for a formal response from the premier.
He said he has tried to arrange a meeting with Environment Minister Barry Penner.
Emissions law: 'We want to be at the table'
Porter said he was surprised to learn that the government plans to introduce legislation in the next few weeks that will set targets for reducing emissions in B.C.
First Nations were not consulted on this legislation, he said.
"In keeping with the new relationship that the premier has endorsed and helped forge collectively with us, we have said very clearly we want to be at the table in every area of discussion," Porter said.
"If this is going to be a collaborative effort, then there has to be total sharing of information. We may have some good ideas about legislation, who knows? And they won't know that unless they ask us."
Natives will 'feel the brunt'
First Nations deserve to be consulted because they are experiencing the effects of climate change first hand, Porter said.
"We more than anybody in this province are going to feel the brunt of climate change. Because that's where we live. We live out on the oceans, we live out along the rivers and the lakes, and we populate northern British Columbia, rural British Columbia."
Everybody, including the government, is trying to figure out what a war against climate change will look like, Porter said.
"I think it's one of those situations where the premier made a very bold statement. You know, climate change -- we're going to take it on, we're going to lead the country.
"The question is, Now what do we do?"
Related Tyee stories:
- BC Salmon Future in Hot Water
Climate change + pine beetle = trouble for Fraser sockeye. - Global Warming Demands Local Fixes
Half of greenhouse emissions are controlled at municipal level. - Global Warming's Threat to BC: Seeking Solutions
Floods and droughts on the radar. Can we adapt?
![[Tyee]](http://thetyee.cachefly.net/ui/img/ico_fishie.png){kind=small}
Jeffrey J.
20-11-2007
First Nations Logic Unassailable
Canada's Supreme Court urged the Federal and Provincial governments to recognize and negotiate with First Nations for years. But foot dragging was the order of the day, and the opportunity to reach agreements with First Nations was denied. And now, as time has passed, new property concepts have arisen. Like carbon credits. And we know how much Western society likes property. It has become the measure of everything.
So after polluting the realm, we've invented carbon credits to fix the pollution. Should First Nations have a say in this new process? I cannot imagine why not. At the very least, it's hard to imagine their input would make things any worse then what Western industry has done. Secondly, for those who object to sharing this process, they only have themselves to blame, as an early settlement of land claims would have changed everything. Great article Tyee.
freebear
20-11-2007
Belongs to the planet!
It does not matter who the carbon belongs to Mr. Porter!
Actually the carbon belongs to the planet and its ecosystems!
Besides, carbon based credits and trading of them, does nothing to cumulatively reduce carbon emissions in the short and long run, especially if the 'trade' means just moving it around while a continuing growing economy (more stuff - George Carlin - of course 'we' can not get a bigger 'house' to put our 'stuff' in!)means more carbon emitted.
Sounds like Harpers "intensity-based" carbon reduction targets-each unit of production reduces the carbon associated with producing it, but means nothing overall if the number of units increases at the same time.
A shell game with the planet's future (oh yes and humanity's future!).
Of course, some may suggest that using First Nation/common/shared/public land to sequester carbon and get paid for it is lazy!
I think most of the greenspeak and greenwash, and litle actual action indicates that whatever the talk, the assumption is, and all we know is - the economy must grow bigger (Oh Mighty God of Green!) (and they say we are getting obese-is a 'fat' economy actually a good thing?!)
Maybe I'll open a carbon sequestering business so I can kick back, watch the weed, I mean trees, grow and sell carbon credits! (I know that is one of the points about carbon credits and trading, but again, if the Economy God is not satiated?!).
I suppose someone, somewhere, is preparing the apology (a la BC Government) to future generations and Mother Earth:
Sorry we ate ourselves out of your house and home!
Rhea
20-11-2007
Deceptive crap
The whole concept of "carbon credits" that you can buy is an unbelievable scam. This is a play on the total laziness of today's population and the idea that you can buy your way out of actually doing any work, or in essence, get something for nothing. Too bad Mother Nature doesn't work like that...buying a few trees that will mature in 10-20 years is NOT going to compensate for Joe Schmuck who drives his SUV on a 50km round trip commute 5 days a week. It's the same mentality as the person who never exercises, then suddenly decides that they can "work off" that fudge brownie binge with a one-time session on the treadmill.
And for a people who profess to believe that land cannot be "owned", this guy is sure interested in grabbing it all for himself all of a sudden. Too bad for the older or poor people on the reserve who aren't his friends or family, since they won't see any of this money if he gets it.
People are getting stupider, and the carbon credit scam is only one example of this.
shmendrick
20-11-2007
What goes up comes down?
I recall reading somewhere that canada's forests may not in fact be a carbon sink any longer due to extensive forest fires... I'd imagine the property owner would need some hefty insurance to back up those credits then! I don't remember the source, but if is indeed correct then these carbon credits become even more or a scam.
shabbaranks
20-11-2007
Deceptive Crap?
Rhea, in response, you are only seeing one side of the issue. What about the extra incentive that carbon credits give, say wind power developers to build a massively expensive wind farm? The extra $$ that the carbon credits may pull in for the developer may make the difference between building a clean energy project, or conversely, without those credits, they may decide to go with a more economically sound development like coal or gas.
I'll agree with you that there are problems with green credits, but you have to recognize the positive impact of market-based economics on this one.
deeby
20-11-2007
Settled claims?
Will First Nations be accounting for treaties already settled (e.g. Douglas Treaties, Nis'ga, Tsawassen), and pro-rating their claims to carbon credits accordingly?
Just wondering....
Rhea
20-11-2007
Quote:What about the extra
You know, I'd take this a whole lot more seriously if I had actually seen any major evidence that developers will utilize this. After all, we've seen how well it worked with encouraging developers to build social housing in market housing developments in return for tax breaks. Carbon credits are even less tangible, and all the developer really cares about is making their money and getting out of Dodge as fast as they can. More likely the whole carbon credit idea is just going to become a way for developers to greenwash their image while busily building ever larger polluting projects elsewhere. Which isn't really much of a solution, especially when you factor in all the money the government will have wasted on policing and administering the carbon credit Ponzi scheme. Think gun registry, time ten. Perhaps I'm just cynical, but I don't trust any large government project that involves credits for intangibles. It's too easy to trade favours or breaks for votes or corporate donations.
Realist
20-11-2007
We are all Canadians
Nice try Mr. Porter but you forget one thing. I am a fourth generation Canadian and thus have as much right to Canadian resources as anyone at this point. If you want to claim anything, try getting it from those who are responsible like those who financed the colonization of Canada.(sorry they are dead leaving no one to try and get money from) We are here know and now just as native as you are. Don't try and rip off your fellow working Canadians by saying everything is yours because times have changed and your claims just are not valid in today's world.
Yammer
20-11-2007
Actually, it's mine
Some of my ancestors were in prison camps. Some of my wife's ancestors were aboriginal.
Frankly, that trumps just being aboriginal. Forget it, Porter, those are MY carbon credits. My ancestors suffered way more than yours, nyah nyah nyah.
G West
20-11-2007
Porter's position
Dave Porter's position, on behalf of the political arm of the First Nations Summit, doesn't seem all that unusual. In fact, it seems pretty damn clever to me.
He says "...In keeping with the new relationship that the premier has endorsed and helped forge collectively with us, we have said very clearly we want to be at the table in every area of discussion,"
"If this is going to be a collaborative effort, then there has to be total sharing of information. We may have some good ideas about legislation, who knows? And they won't know that unless they ask us."
My guess is that Porter's position has probably left Campbell speechless.
His much advertised 'new relationship' with First Nations, as a precursor to achieving the kind of 'business certainty' his advisers urged him he had to achieve, may involve a trifle more than he and his supporters anticipated.
Would it be wrong to suggest that the BC Liberals' real commitment to advancing Native land claims and treaty settlements didn't actually encompass including those new native governments as real 'partners' in the business of "developing the province".
pender paul
20-11-2007
another right wing scam
Carbon credits, the latest scam brought to you by the same mind-set that gave you common stocks, rights bestowed on business to do as it likes, when it likes, etc. Certainly carbon dioxide appears to be the culprit in climate change, but trading carbon credits will do nothing to reduce pollution to tolerable levels. Only a drastic reduction in population will save the planet and there are two choices--cut population voluntarily or let mother nature do the job. In the short term severe restrictions must be imposed on industry and if pollution continues then escalating fines, up to an including forfeiture of the business, must be imposed. Additionally, 'go green' scams such a bio-fuels must be exposed for what they are--fraudulent attempts and convincing the good folks of the planet that there really is a quick and easy fix to the mess we've created. And let's recognize carbon credits for what they really are--a way for business to continue to profit and pollute.
Stump
21-11-2007
economically sound
Coal and gas isn't economically sound... the total bill just hasn't been tallied or paid yet.
realisticman
21-11-2007
Seems to me..
..that if anyone is entitled to carbon credit moola it would be those hard working tree planters that plant literally millions of new trees annually. The planters, along with those that grow the seedlings and those that organize and fund this activity would surely be first in line since it is they that are contributing by far the most to this massive regeneration of CO2 gobbling forests.
freebear
21-11-2007
Tree Farm Planters to the rescue!
No one is entitled to anything!
Do all forests absorb equally-apparently not.
Besides according to Minister of Forests 'we' will be harvesting those planters' efforts in 25-40 years time instead of 100-800 years.
So trees may not be around long enough to do the absorbing job!
Stump
21-11-2007
ummm, no
I don't think so. They're paid to plant trees. Does the chef at your favourite restaurant eat your dinner as well as cooking it?
G West
21-11-2007
And I thought Emerson was going to "save" the forest industry
Too little, too late and too compromised by the fellas in his back pocket. I hope the First Nations folks will do a better job than Campbell and Harper have done.
http://www.pej.org/html/print.php?sid=6658
Time to give someone else a chance...we've blown it. 2050 is too damn late but measuring from unspecified datum points no one will even know how badly.
Ground all business air travel and more than half of the tourist nonsense and you'd be doing something at least.
G West
21-11-2007
Well Bobby Peru
You might be interested in another court decision - just out today.
Both Federal and Provincial authorities have been dragging their feet at every point of this case and Mr Justice David Vickers, just told them in a 485-page decision of the Supreme Court of British Columbia that aboriginal title does exist inside and outside the large area claimed by the Tsilhqot'in bands.
Vickers also ruled the province's Forest Act doesn't apply inside the aboriginal title land and that the province has no right to extinguish the aboriginal bands' title right.
Better get used to dealing with those, now how did you put it...
Welcome to the 21st century!
Here's a bit more for you to read and consider:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20071121.wbc_treatyruling1121/BNStory/National/?page=rss&id=RTGAM.20071121.wbc_treatyruling1121
That should make your day. Maybe those carbon credits will be going to First Nations after all.
DO you suppose the premier is speechless too?
Peter Dimitrov
21-11-2007
Much more at stake here
These comments by Mr. Dave Porter, put directly to the government, puts the "New Relationship" to the test. It is time for the BC government to fish or cut bait- which is it going to be?
The reality is, that not only is there a need to reconcile two different systems of 'property' - aboriginal title and Crown title, but more importantly, to reconcile two different systems of 'civilization' and governance. On the one hand there is the English derived civilization with it statutory and common law notions of property, the powers implict within the concept of the Crown, and a whole set of underlying values and rules - all of which today support the reproduction of big business - with resultant negative cumulative impacts on the natural world; and then there is the civilization of First Nations of this territory, with its own system of governance, an economy that was inherently not capitalistic, that was reliant, in a self-sustaining way on the 'renewable resouces' of this territory, and which still holds to a value system much more respective of the natural world and the rights of future generations.
Given that the BC government is very pro-big business, and very pro mega-developments, and given that it does not advance sustainable economic or land use policies with a 'lighter' eoololgicla footprint, ..it is, I assert in a conflict of interest to be the power responsible for designing a 'cap and trade' system for GHG's, rather, I say, let First Nations, and their experts, design such a system, with the revenues to be managed by a "trust' - whose management would have fiduciary responsibilities to future generations when the design the 'cap and trade' allowances.
sdgreen
21-11-2007
Prorated Profit
Since Mr Porter wants what money is made from carbon credits, I too want some as I am a 5th generation Canadian!
While I am not entirely convinced that the carbon credit regime is valid, seems to me that if the funds made, if any, should be expended entirely on measures to reduce the apparent threat of pollutants that are apparently killing our planet.
Never the less, any effort made by British Columbia in this exercise will have a miniscule effect on the overall problem.
G West
21-11-2007
sdgreen
Better head to the courts then - it's taken hundreds of years, millions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of ruined lives for the First Nations of this country to get anything out of the white man's justice system.
You and I and our colonialist ancestors are going to have to get in line.
alive
22-11-2007
Bobby Peru said:Quote:If you
Bobby Peru said:
Well said!
Everybody has a sobstory to tell, if they can find an audience!
People in other parts of this universe have been victimized to a far greater extent than the "our" natives were a long time ago.
People have been driven from their land and their belongings stolen, their country given a new name and a new dictator.
Some ended up in camps, with no means to prove their identity and nationality, some still live in such conditions.
So, the world is not a fair place, is that news?
To expect people of generations following to be held responsible is not reasonable; nobody claims the rip-off that say the Kennedy's did during the depression, people suck up their misfortunes, unless a bunch of doo-gooders are willing to pity them
clubofrome
22-11-2007
Time = Justice
Yes lets just declare a statute of limitations so we don't have to deal with anything we've done in the past! That way we can continue the crime wave forever! Wealth for everyone except of course the poor, lazy, sobs that can't get off the couch or reserves or welfare! Damn them anyway!! Oh ya, we already did...
If, and that's a really big if, society ever decided to change course and put people before profits, put ecology before economy, then maybe we could all pool our resources and make a better world. But the name of the game is dog eat dog, and what's in it for me. So everyone is getting while the getting is legal. Human rights are just a dream dangled by those wanting to appear like caring individuals when really they just want you to vote for them.
Good thing the oppressed have no memory of the past. I guess what happens is for some reason they just snap, on mass, one day and overthrow the government. Nothing to do with being organized and fed up with corruption and greed...