Squinting to Confirm a New 'Earth'
Does exoplanet Gliese 581 c exist? Could it support life? UBC team key to finding out.
Earth 2.0? Artist's rendition of Gliese 581 c
Canada's space telescope has spent the past two weeks straining for a glimpse of what an elite group of European astronomers claim is the first habitable planet discovered outside this solar system. The suitcase-sized Canadian satellite, called MOST, is the only instrument capable of quickly verifying the historic claim.
The extrasolar planet -- or "exoplanet" -- is named Gliese 581 c, and is thus far the only other place in the universe believed capable of supporting liquid water, and therefore extraterrestrial life. It was discovered using the HARP instrument at the European Southern Observatory's 3.6-meter telescope in La Sille, Chile.
How to Detect a Planet
Radial velocity pioneered in BC
Stars wobble when the gravity of orbiting planets tug at them. As a star wobbles toward and away from its observer, the light it emits is slightly blue and red shifted, respectively. In the early 1980s, Canadian astronomers Bruce Campbell and Gordon Walker fitted a telescope with a tube of hydrogen fluoride gas, creating an interstellar spectrometer that enabled them to measure such shifts.
After tests at the Dominion Observatory in Victoria, they took interstellar spectrometer to the Canada-France-Hawaii Telescope on the summit of Mauna Kea. Campbell and Walker detected what appeared to be several large planets. But within a decade, they began to suspect they were simply observing movement within the stars themselves. By 1992, there was only one star they were still fairly certain was under the sway of an exoplanet. They published a paper in the fall of 1992 with the circumspect title, "Gamma Cephei: rotation or planetary companion?"
Three years later, Swiss astronomers Michel Mayor and Didier Queloz announced the detection of an exoplanet orbiting the star 51 Pegasi. More than 200 exoplanets have been discovered since, all but a handful using variations on the precision radial-velocity technique pioneered at the University of Victoria. One of these planets orbits Gamma Cephei, just as Campbell and Walker suspected.
"Everyone in the field recognizes that Campbell and Walker were the first ones to see evidence for a planet around a Sun-like star in 1992," said UBC astronomer Jaymie Matthews. "Bruce and Gordon could have legitimately gone out and told everybody they'd found a planet." He sighs. "But being good scientists -- and maybe being conservative Canadians -- they didn't make the proclamation that it was definitely a planet."
–-Monte Paulsen
Excerpted from Far From Home, published last fall in The Walrus.
But even before the April 25 announcement splashed across the pages newspapers, the European astronomers had quietly contacted the MOST mission control team at the University of British Columbia. The Europeans sought verification of their ground-based observation, because they hadn't actually "seen" the new exoplanet. Rather, they deduced its presence using the radial velocity method, in which the presence of a planet is deduced based on how its mass causes the orbit of its host star to wobble.
"The radial velocity signal is quite low, and there is a lot of scatter," said Jaymie Mark Matthews, principal investigator in charge of the MOST mission. "There is justifiable skepticism within the exoplanet community about whether this planet really exists."
To remove all doubt, astronomers need to catch a glimpse of the planet itself. MOST circles the Earth in a polar orbit, its 15-centimetre telescope unfettered by our murky atmosphere. Launched by the Canadian Space Agency in 2003 for a mere $10 million, MOST is the only space telescope sufficiently agile to re-point on relatively short notice.
Rather than watch for wobbles, MOST detects what astronomers call "transits." Just as a mosquito passing in front of a light bulb blocks the light ever so slightly, an exoplanet passing between its star and Earth dims the amount of light reaching MOST. By measuring the miniscule reduction in light, the MOST team can estimate the size of the transiting object.
"If we observe a transit, that will take away all ambiguity," Matthews said. "We'll know we're looking at a planet."
And MOST will secure its role in an international adventure the likes of which this world has not witnessed since the era of Drake and Magellan -- a race to determine whether or not we are alone in the universe.
To glimpse a passing planet
Matthews figures the odds of MOST catching a fleeting glimpse of Gliese 581 c at about one in 30. That's because for MOST to observe a transit, the exoplanet's orbit must pass directly between its host star and Earth. Astronomers do not know the inclination of the Gliese 581 c orbit, but assume that orbital planes are inclined randomly throughout the universe. Because Gliese 581 c orbits much closer to its dim star than Earth does to the Sun, the geometry improves MOST's odds.
MOST has already watched one potential transit period, and will observe several more before returning to its day job, stellar seismology.
"We had our first chance earlier this week," Matthews told The Tyee. "We'll have another intense stakeout in less than two weeks."
If MOST does catch a transit, astronomers will be able to combine MOST's data on the planet's size and speed with HARP's observations of mass. "We would be the first to measure the density of an Earth-like planet. No ones ever been able to do that," Matthews said. "We would be able to tell whether it was an ocean, or rocky."
Even more important to the scientists, MOST will return baseline information about the star itself. Gliese 581 a is a red dwarf, a type of star that tends to be more turbulent than stars like the Sun. MOST will likely determine whether or not that "variability" is sufficient to mislead the HARP instrument. This is precisely what MOST -- an acronym for Microvariability and Oscillations of STars -- was built to study.
Likewise, MOST could determine if the Gliese 581 system's habitable zone is actually habitable. If it splashes periodic waves of intense heat toward its companion planets, "that might not be all that great an environment for life to gain a foothold," Matthews said. "On the other hand, the star is remarkably quiescent for a red dwarf. That would be a good sign that that 581c could be a solid world that could support liquid water on the surface."
"We're lucky we live near such a boring star," Matthews added. "If the Sun's energy varied the way some red dwarfs do, we wouldn't be here. Our climate would be changing even more dramatically than the global warming everyone is currently concerned about."
Habitable, but not just like home
What makes the Gliese 581 c discovery so remarkable is that of the 233 planets discovered thus far, it is the only one that does not suffer from what some astronomers call "the Goldilocks paradox." All the other exoplanets discovered to date are either too hot (because they orbit too close to their stars) or too cold (they orbit too far out) for water to remain a liquid, which is regarded as a precondition for the existence of life as we know it.
Gliese 581 c is just right. Researchers predict its average temperature to be somewhere between 0 and 40 degrees Celsius. (The Earth's mean surface temperature is currently about 15 degrees Celsius, and is projected to increase between one and six degrees by 2100.)
But even if it does prove to be a wet, rocky planet, Gliese 581 c probably wouldn't feel much like home. It's about 50 per cent larger than Earth. It's also five times as massive, so its gravitational pull would be greater. And because it completes a full orbit of its dwarf star every 13 days, birthdays would be celebrated more or less every other weekend.
Gliese 581 c orbits 14 times closer to its host star than Earth orbits the Sun. To anyone standing on the surface of Gliese 581 c, the star would appear two or three times larger that than the sun does from Earth. "Red dwarfs are the Honda Civics of the Universe," Matthews said. "Being relatively dim, they don't use up their fuel at such a rapid rate. So they last a long time."
If there are creatures living on Gliese 581 c, they probably see things differently than we do. Our eyes have evolved to be most sensitive to the strongest light frequencies emitted by our Sun. The Gliesians, noted Matthews, "would likely possess vision skewed to red or infrared, because that's what their star emits."
The neighbourhood is bit different, too. Whereas Earth's solar system has eight full-patch planets -- plus Pluto, Xena and an icy crew of hang-arounds -- only three have been identified in the Gliese 581 system: The Neptune-sized 581b (15 times the mass of Earth) that orbits in only 5.4 days, the Earth-like 581c that orbits in 13 days, and 581d (eight times the mass of Earth) that orbits in 84 days.
Modern-day Magellans
If verified as a habitable planet, the discovery of Gliese 581 c will boost the reputation of the team led by Swiss astronomers Michel Mayor and Didier Queloz, who in 1995 became the first earthlings to identify an exoplanet. (See sidebar.)
Gliese 581 c was idenfitied with the HARPS (High Accuracy Radial Velocity for Planetary Searcher) instrument, a precise spectrograph operated by the European Organisation for Astronomical Research in the Southern Hemisphere.
"HARPS is a unique planet hunting machine," said Mayor, who serves as principal investigator. "We can say without doubt that HARPS has been very successful: Of the 13 known planets with a mass below 20 Earth masses, 11 were discovered with HARPS."
"The discovery of Gliese 581 c is an important stepping stone," said UBC's Matthews. "Even if it turns out that this isn't a planet, we anticipate that HARPS will uncover more Super-Earths. Once we've got 15 or 20 to observe, the odds are good that one of them is going to transit."
Matthews said MOST will likely release preliminary findings related to Gliese 581 c sometime next month.
If Canada's diminutive space telescope observes a transit of Gliese 581 c, a next step would be to use a larger colour space telescope to determine whether there is water vapour in the exoplanet's atmosphere. (MOST is a black-and-white instrument.) The first identification of interstellar water was recently deduced using infrared data from transits observed by the $3 billion Hubble Space Telescope.
"This might or might not be it," Matthews said. "I have no doubt that within the next five to 10 years, we will find another Earth-like planet."
Close, but still far away
Gliese 581a is among the 100 closest stars to Earth. It's located only 20.5 light-years away in the constellation Libra ("the Scales"). "You could observe this star with an amateur telescope," Matthews said. "You could probably see it with a decent set of binoculars."
Xavier Delfosse, a French member of the ESO team, released a statement declaring: "Because of its temperature and relative proximity, this planet will most probably be a very important target of the future space missions dedicated to the search for extra-terrestrial life."
Delfosse added, "On the treasure map of the Universe, one would be tempted to mark this planet with an X."
But getting there is another matter entirely.
In order to visualize 20.5 light years, imagine a model in which the Sun is about the size of a cherry. The Earth would be a grain of sand, revolving around the cherry at a distance of one metre. Pluto would be 40 metres away. If the cherry is in Vancouver, the next closest star (Proxima Centauri) would be just south of Seattle. And Gleise 581 would be in San Francisco.
These distances cripple fantasies of Star Trek–style travel. The fastest spacecraft ever launched left Earth last year. Travelling at 50,000 kilometres per hour, it will take nine and a half years to reach Pluto. That same spacecraft would require 350,000 years to reach Gliese 581 c. In order for that spacecraft to reach Gliese 581 c this decade, it would have had to have left Earth about the same time pygmy-sized hominids first stood erect.
Radio communication is more practical. The non-governmental Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence (SETI) listened for signs of life in the Gliese 581 system in 1995 using the Parks Radio Telescope in Australia, and again in 1997 using the Green Bank Radio Telescope in West Virginia. No signal was detected. Senior astronomer Seth Shostak has announced that SETI will listen to the system again this summer when the new Allen Telescope Array begins operations.
Just as intriguing is the question of whether Gliese 581 c has been listening to Earth.
Radio signals travels at roughly the speed of light. So Gliese 581 c would only now be receiving radio and television programming broadcast in late 1986. "Walk Like an Egyptian" was the Bangles' hit single. Knight Rider was in its fourth (and final) season, and Alf had just premiered.
"Knight Rider," Matthews mused. "If there is intelligent life on Gliese 581 c, that probably explains why they haven't contacted us."
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Frank
4 years ago
Thank you
Good article!
But we need a telescope that tells us how the Giesians vote. I'm sure they're Reds but if they lean to the Right can we just ignore them?
freebear
4 years ago
No New Earth!
Just great!
Finding an earth-like planet may seal the fate of current one!
Or maybe we have been abusing the current one because we hope to find a new one?
Nevertheless, I wish all the resources spent on going to space would rather have been spent on looking after our space ship - EARTH!
dolphin
4 years ago
The Noah Plan
Reminds me of Peter Schilling's sci-fi song the Noah Plan, where survivors depart a dying Earth for a habitable planet far off in space.
clubofrome
4 years ago
Aliens
The Giesians visited earth in 6000BC, where they planted the defective genetic code that would lead to human greed and eventual self destruction. They are a patient bunch, these Giesians, and they will soon be rewarded with a planet devoid of human meddling. Of course one wonders why they didn't just vapourize us way back then. Must have been against the prime directive of the universe, do not interfere with evolution no matter how destructive. You think any Alien culture is going to let our species roam the Galaxy at will? Give your head a shake, We're trouble and they know it.
freebear
4 years ago
The Glesians
Actually we are descendents of the Glecians, they destroyed their home world and colonized Earth!
But they did learn their lesson and now are destroying Earth!
Joke is on us Glesians!!!!!
freebear
4 years ago
Oops!
It should have read:
But they did not (!) learn their lesson and now are destroying Earth!
bob the cat
4 years ago
Gliesian Nation
The Gliesians walk among us!
Gliesian agents have been on planet earth for many years now. They don`t blink.....much if at all.
They communicate with fellow agents through second rate paperback novels which are actually code known only to Gliesians.
Their purpose on earth is to gather information and observe the comings and goings of the earthlings...occasionally inserting probes and monitoring devices up the noses of unsuspecting earth people.
They don`t blink.
Frank
4 years ago
I want it noted that I am
I want it noted that I am the first to welcome our future Gilesian overlords and on a sidenote add that I am willing to run a Terran concentration camp for little or no pay or whatever else it takes to protect my bodily fluids.
Frank
4 years ago
Oh, and I should point out
Oh, and I should point out to the Lord Gilesians that I think Elliot is planning a coup.
clubofrome
4 years ago
Purity of Essence
Flouridation of water. Perhaps it wasn't the Russkies that hatched that monstrous evil plan to impurify our precious bodily fluids after all...
bob the cat
4 years ago
Gilesian free marketers
The Lords of Greater Gilesia are well aware of Elliot and his plots, plans and machinations.
Elliot is being monitored.
The usual nasal orifice insertion of the probe wasn`t possible with Elliot so an alternate orifice insertion point had to be utilised.
Fortunately the process escaped detection as the subject had a well proportioned opening well suited to penetration with the probe due largely to familiarity with, and the frequency of taking, of fitting.. varying
fruits, vegetables and assorted free market items up the aforementioned free orifice.
clubofrome
4 years ago
Coincidence?
The CBC and the Gildeacian show.... We're not meant to understand it!
Jaymie Matthews
4 years ago
I appreciate and understand
I appreciate and understand "freebear"'s reaction to the research on exoplanets like Gliese 581c (a name only an astronomer or an alien marketing guru could love). "freebear" wrote: "Nevertheless, I wish all the resources spent on going to space would rather have been spent on looking after our space ship - EARTH!"
Rest assured we are not looking for and studying alien worlds to find a place to evacuate if we screw up our home world. The stars are so remote that the prospects of sending one robotic probe - let alone one
human - let alone billions of humans - are almost too remote to contemplate.
But by exploring from a distance these alien stars and planets, we are learning to put our own star, the Sun, and our home planet, Earth, in context. I wouldn't have a very complete picture of human nature if I only interviewed and studied one person - say, Howie Mandel. If I were an alien student of human biology, anthropology, pyschology and sociology, I would need to study a very broad variety of humans. Astronomers need to do this with a range of stars and planetary systems to understand the nature of the interactions between the Sun and the Earth, and how our world has changed - and will change - over time.
Keep in mind that before 1995, we knew of only one system of planets around a Sun-like star: our own. This is an age of discovery that is teaching us how to be better passengers aboard Spaceship Earth.
clubofrome
4 years ago
One who goes by...
To the one who goes by Jaymie Matthews. Greetings, (just nod , as I'm aware you can't blink) and welcome. Please accept a laurel and hearty handshake from our welcoming committee. The one you are looking for, "Elliot" is not here right now. Look for the guy walking around like he's trying to hide a surf board...
This age of discovery you're talking about, when exactly do you think the lesson will begin? I see a lot of passengers butting in line and grabbing everything they can without regard for future generations.
bob the cat
4 years ago
Egliesiacttical understanding
There are rumours of a "cult" being formed around the "probees" or "contactees"
Supposedly one can attain a state of "Gliesian Oneness"..and it bears a remarkable similarity with the neo conservative ideaology of our own Lord Gordo.
I`ve myself heard Gordo acolytes talk of
achieving perfect "Gordness" and of being " at Gord" with the universe.
This state is only attainable to those with intimate knowledge of the workings of " the magic hand!" of the free market. Thats why they`re almost always smiling.
This is where the left misses the boat and Elliot has it right. They don`t get it. The magicof the whole thing. The HAND in the background..
guiding us..the Gliesian mystery of it all!
Be at Gord..may greatness and excellence and being the best you can be lead to the realization of your very own dream of wealth, power and domination and control over everything.
Perfect Gliesian Gordness.
Right to Bear
4 years ago
Crap Jaymie...!!
club said...
Spot on comments of which I agree...!! Freebear nailed it as well.
We need to be spending more money on taking care of our Mother.
Myself, I do not believe for a minute this "exploration" of other planets is GOOD for our Earth... That is crap. Because of our abuses, our Mother is starving and a project such as this proves an unwillingness by us (or those who pretend to represent us) to take steps towards the necessary change towards the living in harmony with the Earth imo.
Peace,
Bear
hova87
4 years ago
i hope
they can figure out a way to move everyone who doesnt belong here out there, well in canada atleast, while the resources are somewhat okay.
Fii
4 years ago
Wet and rocky, aye?
Sounds like a place we know... though who is going to want to live there if there isn't a Starbucks on every corner...
Umslopogaas
4 years ago
Gliesian Vacations
I wonder if they have laws against drunk driving there?
Right to Bear
4 years ago
Good question...
Yeah, I wonder Unslop. If they did, that wouldn't be good for Iamc eh??
Bear :-)
Right to Bear
4 years ago
cont..
or Cappy for that matter :-)
Jaymie Matthews
4 years ago
Lessons learned
I agree that we need spend more money, and energy, and thought, towards "taking care of our Mother" Earth. Research into other planets (in our Solar System and beyond) and other suns is a small but important part of that effort.
Our environment is not just limited to the top of the Earth's atmosphere. If that were the case, we could ignore the Sun - (not a good idea, I suspect) - and the Earth's magnetic field, and cosmic rays, and asteroids and comets which have played a significant role in the history of life on this planet, and quite likely its future as well.
What lessons about caring for our Earth are to be learned from studying other planets?
Take the example of Venus, our "sister planet" (so nicknamed because of its similar size and mass to Earth). As early as 1940, there were suggestions that concentrations of carbon dioxide could raise the temperature of the planet. But measurements showed the surface temperature of Venus to be over 400 C! This was a mystery to astronomers and planetary scientists.
A young Carl Sagan, in 1960, demonstrated that it was very possible that Venus was a planetary greenhouse run amuck. By the early 1970's, scientists speculated that Venus might have been hospitable to life in the past, but that the runaway greenhouse effect had transformed it into a hellish place.
This raised an urgent question: If it could happen on Earth's sister world, why not on Earth itself, if the delicate balance of carbon dioxide production and trapping in limestones was upset? Mounting evidence for a gradual increase in the Earth's surface temperature may not have triggered widespread recognition of the potential threat as quickly without a planet-sized example of how this could happen, right next door.
Studying other worlds to learn about our own is not crap. It's common sense.
At a human scale, the Earth seems almost limitless. At an astronomical scale, it can be seen as very limited indeed. The image of the Earth as a tiny blue-white marble in the vastness of space - is an eloquent lesson in awareness of our environment.
Right to Bear
4 years ago
Jaymie, it's about VALUE really....
Thanks for your response Jaymie as no doubt interesting stuff.
My thoughts still go back to VALUE. Is studying the solar system giving us the "save the Earth" information we need in trade for the limited time and money we spend on it. As interesting as Venus is relative to the Earth, what benefits really are we receiving when it comes to stopping the obvious heating of our planet. Will having an extended time evaluation of global heating on Venus help us to stop the heating of the soon uninhabitable Mother Earth itself?? We and everything else die long before it gets to the extreme heat of which you referred to.
So, from where I stand now, I can see minimal at best VALUE in pursuing this intergalactic study when the obvious threat to our Mother is undeniable and right here in front of us all...
Eloquently put though Jaymie, and very interesting, just not relative to the urgency of the times in my view.
Ultimately, survival is more basic than this my friend...
Peace,
Bear
Jaymie Matthews
4 years ago
A big bang for the buck
Hi, Bear,
Thanks to you too for your thoughtful response.
Obviously, I believe that astronomical research is good value for the money, but you might naturally expect me to be biased in that direction.
It's important to put the costs of that research in perspective. NASA's Mars Global Surveyer (MGS) was an expensive mission launched in 1996 to study Mars and search for evidence of water on that world. Was Mars once a waterworld?
Launched the year before MGS was Kevin Costner's movie, Waterworld. It cost more (about US$974M) than the space mission (about US$154M). Waterworld left theatres after a few weeks and took up residence in discount DVD bins. Mars Global Surveyor functioned for ten years and taught us a lot about the red planet, and showed us many analogues for geology and climatology on Earth.
Should we stop making films? (Well, maybe ones like Waterworld, yes.)
Astronomical research and space exploration cannot be - and are not - the big ticket items in the budgets of even very rich countries. (Trust me, I'm not in astronomy for the money or the social life. ;>) We spend a lot more money on a lot of other things, not all of which are as beneficial to our understanding of or care for the Earth's environment.
Like film, literature, music and art, astronomy is also a cultural endeavour, not just a scientific one.
People are curious about the Universe around us. Are there other worlds which can support life? Are there other living beings out there? You don't need to be a rocket scientist to ask these questions,
which have been asked for a very long time throughout human history. And the "age of discovery" to which I alluded in a previous message includes the first steps towards possibly answering these questions.
Sharing these discoveries with everyone is part of what enriches our lives. We must ensure that we can continue our lives (and the lives of other species) on our home planet. We must also ensure that we continue to treasure those lives. Without art, history and science, without sheer curiosity and wonder, the value of life would be greatly diminished.
A fellow passenger
on Spaceship Earth,
Jaymie
Right to Bear
4 years ago
Value...
Jaymie said:
That is a beautiful paragraph friend...!!
I do understand a wee more about what you are trying to say, and where you are coming from on this issue. There is definite Truth in your words. Still, my only precaution is in keeping with the word VALUE. Much money spent, many starving in our country of plenty and abroad, much money spent, many people and other living things dying from a toxic environment that hasn't had the money allotted to clean it up, much money spent, as our resources, that should be promised to our children’s children, are being sold out to other countries, much money spent, and not enough spent on homeless, mentally ill, or impoverished communities in our own country... Anyways, you know I could go on, but I think you understand what I am saying...
I wonder Jaymie, can we not get just as excited and perhaps even more so, by saving the life of a child, or investing in sustainable ways of living? On the subject of sustainable living, some might say we are spending enough money in search of good alternative solutions to this problem, but some might also say we will have spent enough when we have found these solutions and implemented them...
Art, history, and science all hold an important place in the motivation of the human spirit on this we agree, but as like the story of the death of the inhabitants of Easter Island, as humans, passion and adventure have to be checked at times in order to obtain a healthy balance within a society…
Bottom line my friend, if even one child dies of starvation, while we toil for indulgent adventure with the curiosity of cats... The VALUE is not there for me. Once again, my view.
Peace Jaymie,
Bear
Jaymie Matthews
4 years ago
The value of life and of curiousity
Hi, Bear,
I suspect we agree much more than we disagree.
I just think that if one wants to identify activities where resources are being squandered that could go towards saving lives or supporting sustainability, astronomical research, or studies in medieval history, or grants to poets, or similar activities of ________ [you fill in the blank], are not really culprits. They represent small amounts of money in the scale of things, and they provide inspiration, innovation and hope to many people, including children.
I know of medical doctors and environmental scientists who were drawn to science by their early fascination for astronomy, and who otherwise might not have adopted the careers they have. We cannot say where some of the next big revelations in medicine or ecology will be found. For example, doctors are now using software developed to spot faint galaxies in Hubble Space Telescope images to detect the precursors of breast cancer in digital mammograms. If we cut off our curiosity, we cut off our future survival as a species.
We cannot spend huge amounts of our resources on astronomy, nor should we. Nor do we. If humanity's future is something like a game of chance, then we should put most of our bets on what will give us the safest fastest recognisable returns. But like a prudent gambler, we should reserve a few chips for the scientific and artistic long shots. Because when these pay off, they can be the jackpots for all of humanity.
Thanks for a thought-provoking exchange of ideas and principles.
Jaymie
Right to Bear
4 years ago
Jaymie...
Thanks once again for sharing your insights Jaymie,
On the thought that we do not spend very much on astronomy, to me, astronomy and space travel run hand in hand, and there has been a lot of resources used up on these projects instead of supporting the Human Journey right here on Earth.
As you, I do suspect we come together on many things. I believe one of which is the understanding some of the needed “ingredients" for the fullness in human’s lives, it is amounts that we yet to agree on or not :-)
Thank you too Jaymie for such an interesting discussion on a subject that for me, needed to be visited. They always say, "a mind stretched is never the same". My mind indeed has been stretch today. Be well...
Peace,
Bear
clubofrome
4 years ago
Attention: Trekkies
And other dreamers stuck in the future. We need help now. Just wondering if you can use a bit of that human curiosity for a moment to help figure out what we can do here and now to feed 7 billion people and deal with all of the waste? Hmm? Yeah, sorry it's not as sexy a thing to research as the stars and planets but it's still a worthy challenge. Save your breath on comparisons between earth and venus or what looking through the hubble tells us. You're missing the point. What ever small tid bit of trivia you gather pales in comparison when you try and solve the mystery of life on this planet. The greatest lab in the known universe and you're letting in be pulled out from under you. Intellectuals my ass!
freebear
4 years ago
BREAKING NEWS!
This just in:
The 'Gliesens' have announced themselves to humanity and welcome their new neighbours.
The good news is that they wish us no harm!
The bad (re: good) news is that they are on a long journey and will be taking all of our oil, coal and natural gas to fule their cosmic ship, as they drove their old planet right into the ground!
Good Luck Earthlings!
Jaymie Matthews
4 years ago
The greatest lab in the known Universe
Please save your insults, "clubofrome". You may think astronomers and other scientists are wasting our time but if weren't for careful study of the Sun and other stars, the Sun might still be considered the prime culprit for recent climate trends, allowing people to let humanity totally off the hook.
If you think we will better understand the Earth and the Sun, and "solve the mystery of life on this planet", without studying other planets and other stars, then you are the one missing the point. It was not that long ago that early data pointing to a slight change in the mean temperature of the Earth over recent history was considered "a small tidbit of trivia", even by scientists of the day. However you interpret it now, it has become a major issue in our world.
The known Universe is the greatest lab we have. If we ignore the lessons we can learn from it, then we're stuck in the past and our future will be even less certain than it is now.
clubofrome
4 years ago
The Point
Take off your rubber spock ears and concentrate for a moment. No one said the study of the universe is a waste of time only a low priority compared to what we plan to do about the coming challenges. The warming of the earth being just the first of many ELE's. No I'm not talking about asteroid impacts, but human impact in the name of progress/growth. We haven't managed our resources with any thought for the future period! So while you're looking out at the stars from the bridge of your imaginary star cruiser, this planet you are still standing on is getting ready to kick our butts! In Gaian principles it's the equivalent of an eviction notice. How societies choose to fail or suceed is the subject of Diamonds' book Collapse and we ignore the signs at society's peril. The problem with most humans is they can't see past their own needs. Some even think we as a sociey are so evolved that we can handle anything now with technology. So the fatal flaw that you and almost everyone exhibit is you don't think it will happen to us. I like looking at the stars and wondering what it all means too. But for those who can't see the beauty here on earth and realize we need to find our own place in the web of life they are missing the point. No earth no future, period. Live long and prosper young Jedi Jaymie!
Jaymie Matthews
4 years ago
Padewan Jaymie
My rubber Spock ears are in the drycleaners at the moment, but that's beside the point.
You make an unjustified assumption that I don't think catastrophe can happen to us, nor do you know anything about what I do in my life and work to address those issues. And you assume that because I appreciate the beauty of the stars, I don't appreciate the beauty of life on Earth. Very bad assumption, even worse stereotype.
I've read "Catastrophe", and even other books that don't contain equations, believe it or not. How many of the ideas and pieces of evidence in "Catastophe" came from seemingly trivial research in anthropology, history and zoology? How many were being discussed in public even a few years ago? How many other threats to life and civilisation are we facing that we don't even recognise yet? And how many solutions to those do we recognise and understand?
Science and technology are not panaceas, but if we stop investigating, here at home and elsewhere, then that's when we won't be able to see beyond what we think are our immediate needs.
I don't plan to respond to any more of your messages. No offence, but I'm sure I can find sources of abuse for my uber-astro-geeky traits elsewhere, if I really feel I need it. And I don't need strangers questioning my commitment to life on this planet because I've chosen to be an astrophysicist. You are apparently committed to a particular path ('sorry if that sounded Jedi-ish, it just slipped out) and I hope it bears fruit for you and maybe for all of us.
clubofrome
4 years ago
SETI headphones!
You seem unable to tell the difference between commentary and abuse. Nothing personal pal, but you're not the centre of this feature. I'm sure you're more than aware of what threats lie ahead of humanity. Since it's astronomers who would realize we as a species aren't going anywhere. The distances are too great. The best you've got is radio telescopes, but correct me if I'm wrong. Perhaps someday we can use them to send an SOS! Certainly there are enough human units on this earth that we can spare a few of you and other resources to study places we will never go to. Just remember you're the one who said this is the age of discovery to help us be better passengers. I'd like to know who is in charge of maintenance on space ship earth? So perhaps you could indulge us just one more time as to what you perceive to be the threats to humanity and society we will soon be facing. We'd just like to know if you understand the "smaller" picture. No offence intended grasshopper.
clubofrome
4 years ago
Close study indeed!
Thanks for proving my point by the way! It may yet be determined that the sun is indeed responsible for global warming. Humans have an impact on ecosystems and climate but warming is probably the worst excuse for changing our behavior. The earth has warmed and cooled and will continue to do so with or without us. At least that's what some say, and it's just like us to think we're the centre of the action! Personally I'm more worried about water. How we've altered the natural course of almost every major waterway with damns and diversions. What does make it's way to the oceans isn't nearly enough to help replace what we've taken from the sea. Pollution now replaces the nutrients that used to feed the abudance of sea life once found in our oceans.
I'd like to thank Truman Green for his open minded observations and obvious dedication to research on warming and HIV misinformation, that inspired me to do more reading on these subjects.