Caveat Emptor

Kinda like buying a house next to the RR tracks then complaining about the trains.

An aerial photo

would be worth something here.

This group (I was at the meeting in Vernon) is not your usual band of local activists. Its interesting to hear them speak out against the Liberals (who they admit they have voted for in the past). Will they change their vote next time?

Butchart Gardens

used to be a gravel pit

Butchart Gardens

Was a limestone quarry. THere is a difference.

It Can Never Happen To Me

It's easy enough to be dismissive except when it happens near your home. Then let's see if the above posters remain flippant.

Hell hath no fury...

Hell hath no fury like a scorned retired Civil Servant. How ironic....and seen it many times.

Queen Elizabeth Park is an ex - quarry, is it not ?

What's your point G West? ... a hole is a-hole.

Back to the same old property rights issue. There are none...its all a myth. The Public are simply the sheep and the cattle on Regina's Land. Those of us that know this " first hand " are now seeing our fellow citizen /comrades slowly coming to the same epiphany.

PS Thank the (2) Roys, Pierre, Jean, Dave, etc. etc. Talk about seeds sown that grow all over regardless of the conditions .

Accuracy and truth.

The fact that the Butchart family had no immediate neighbours they'd be offending at their Tod inlet property in the years around the turn of the 19th century is also a small consideration maestro. It’s called change and its called progress. Women didn’t get the vote definitively in this country until after the First World War.

I was pretty sure this story would get your ALR and land-issue antennae all aquiver.

Alciabides:

Where did I S-A-Y that, G West ?

Ya want to point it out ?

Yer starting to go a bit postal G West. Signs are there.

You imply the Butchart families' " RIGHTS ", = YES but that was OK waaaay back then....but if they had immediate neighbours = NO ? That is an inconsistent argument...typical from ideologues.

BTW : What First Nations group would lay claim to Butchart Gardens ?

Butchart Gardens

I believe they logged the shit right out of that whole area first, then it became a quarry. So what? The wood and stone was used to build Victoria, provided jobs to people, what the hell do you freaks want? What do you think they use for road base, for concrete? To make the roads all of you travel, to make the biuldings you are sitting in as you whine. Snivel servants are good whiners Maestro, you got that right. Queen Elizabeth park, yes, it was a quarry, the rock helped build the city. I cut down trees there a while back so they could expand the resevoir there, they poured thousands of meters of concrete to do this. That gravel had to come from somewhere to make that concrete. If we start getting gravel from far away where there is no one to offend then the cost will go up, there will be more pollution to transport it and so on. Really, makes me shake my head.

climber

Someone hinted at a facile analogy between the current topic and the Butchart example.

I simply demonstrated how inapt it was. We no longer live in the past and continual references to what happened ‘back then’ are not all that helpful – don’t you agree?

Finding ways to buffer and negotiate the interface between industry and residential interests is not a simple matter and it will become more fraught and difficult as time goes on.

The same is true when ALR lands are threatened by suburban growth. The people who start the streaming and the name-calling always seem to be you and maestro.

Is this practice in direct relation to the fact that you haven't thought very deeply about what you're saying or is it the only tactic you have left?

I see exactly the same thing (executed by the same two labels) going on concurrently on the farm workers thread and I begin to wonder you haven't realized it is getting a little stale.

A bit of a side bar...yet Gravel related.

Given gravel and other aggregate also comes from the rivers....

Flooding is a concern in the lower portions of the Fraser this year. The solution is apparently either(i)Higher dykes or (ii) dredging of the River.

Given what I have read...dredging makes the most sense for a number of reasons.

A few recent articles on the Province newspaper come to mind, and involve the First Nations bands around Rosedale. Now, apparently the Fraser river deposits large amounts of gravel in the Frasers' upper reaches. Local Band members claimed in a recent article that they can actually hear the gravel moving underwater, it is so plentiful.

There are some parties who claim that dredging etc. upsets the Department of Fisheries and Oceans(DFO), and DFO is to blame for this potential flooding problem . The First Nations members interviewed claim that the lack of dredging harms the salmon,ie shallower water = higher water temperature = higher salmon mortality.

So... DFO = " the bad guys" ?

Well , in a recent Letter to the Editor in the Province, a DFO spokesman stated they have no problem with the dredging/gravel extraction from the river , the required Permits for gravel mining from the DFO are approved, and this DFO approval process is often done in a timely fashion. The DFO recognizes the Public Safety issue ie flooding potential and the balance required to also minimize the impact on fish habitat. However, the DFO Spokesman claims the First Nations Band has not acted on the approved permit, citing funding and high costs to access and transport gravel.

I find this all very strange, and a potential Win - Win situation turning into a Lose - Lose one instead . The potential of spring flooding and the salmon runs commencing over the next few months. Time is quickly running out. This same Band apparently loses approx. 10 acres of land a year due to erosion...aka river related...the river needs dredging, and gravel is a valuable commodity. If this river gravel was extracted, with the DFO's literal blessing,...then there would also be less impact on dryland gravel pits and all their collateral impacts .

Makes little, if any, sense.

shows you how desperate the

shows you how desperate the left is when they'll jump on just about any excuse to criticize this gov't. i almost feel bad for them, then i think about the mess the ndp made.

Climber:

Just to brief you, since its been a while since you posted until recently:

.....along the lines of " Pot Calling the Kettle Black ".

Many TYEE posters began to be suspicious when other TYEE parties posted comments and coincidentally certain other TYEE parties would jump -in almost on cue. Allegations were made that some so-called separate TYEE parties were actually ONE and the SAME.

Unless you have already heard this , G WEST was also posting as ALCIABIDES.

He admitted it and did not deny it. Check with the TYEE archives. G WEST feels it was OK and he had a " the ends justifies the means" type of excuse, and roundly chastised by many for this deceptive stunt. However, others of like mind feel he has done no wrong.

In his ALCIABIDES persona, he mentions " keeping F-I-L-E-S " on people.
Just a friendly advice aka a warning when engaging with " his type " and " his supporters ". They are full of stereotyping , misinformation and unknown agendas. They often want to play TYEE editor and BAN people, unlike the rest of us who defend their basic right to free speech, but simply challenge their credibility, as (i)free speech and (ii)credibility are often separate when it comes to their types.

ADVICE: Keep a healthy distance and be very skeptical. Many others on the TYEE may be engaged in the same sort of shameless deception.

Thank you maestro

For anyone who doesn't know the story behind what the maestro is writing about here, and I can hardly believe there is anyone who doesn't, here's a link to the comments that spell the whole story:

http://thetyee.ca/Views/Teacherdiaries/2007/02/27/BoyTrouble/

Thanks again for the publicity. Next time please provide the link as well, ok!

No Problem : G WEST

No problem G WEST:

However, you be the " www. LINK - master " .

Otherwise ...Nice try/nice tactic, my compliments, though I've seen it before.

Very formulaic counter - strategy.

Just honesty and the truth maestro

Devoid of ad hominem name calling.

You might want to try it sometime.

It's called having principles and it has nothing to do with strategy.

Trolls by another name...

micetro, elliot and flattax are probably the same person too. You invented the game and spread the conspiracy theories as part of your subterfuge. It's because you can't deal in truth. Proven over and over again in every thread. Acknowledged by Tyee posters far and wide. You think everyone who cares for this earth and its passengers are weak and you resort to calling them names. You don't have any understanding of compassion or of what it's like to look at what's best for community. You and your ilk are a selfish bunch who think you are strong. I know that you are the real cowards. You're "herd" mentality is old and exposed as lies. You don't even make a good monkey. Please try harder for that Darwin Award your aiming at.

Excellent informative posts by some

Excellent informative posts, as always G. West.
..and who are these anonymous bravehearts (or is it quintessential cranks) to talk about "authenticity" with a straight face?

Climber et al :

Point proven, as per usual, as shown in posts above.

(aka the Shoe ....and the GLOVE " fits " to a " T ").

Glad you mentioned him.

Oh you mean this post:

Quite right.

I'm sure club didn't mean to leave climber out of that little list.

BC is the land of cheap aggregate

Look at Polaris or Ascot. Canadian companies, shipping aggregate to California by barge. Yes...the socialist state of California!

I call it stupidity arbitrage. If the Californians are too stupid to mine their own aggregate, let's take advantage of it. They are very anti-development down there, and we make money from it.

I know that we are shipping them coastal aggregate and not interior aggregate. But due to the expense of transportation, it is best to mine near the end use. Would you prefer our aggregate mined in Alaska and transported down here with associated greenhouse gas emissions that you preach about so much? Besides, if it is not aggregate, it is forestry products we will be using for construction.

Yes people, economies grow, people reproduce. The population increases! Resource use increases! Shocking.

If you don't line the mine moving in next door then sell! All you left wingers should agree that the mine is there for the greater good of society...

As an aside, radon gas is a problem in the interior and is not due to aggregate mining. New construction can mitigate radon gas problems.

Californians stupid flattax?

If California were to separate from the U.S. they would have the fourth largest economy in the world.

Pulpmills here are importing woodchips from California.

Anyone else find it amusing

Anyone else find it amusing that there is a link in the story, "aggregate" so that people can find out what aggregates are? I find it funny, it just shows how far removed the target audience here is from the realities that make our world go around. Dredging the Fraser, what a simple no brainer, they dredged it for years, in years in which there were some of the best salmon runs ever. Has anyone here driven out there, like past Chilliwack and looked around? Gravel gets deposited, the river rises, thats how deltas are created, you build on the deltas, you had better dredge, or build 80' high dykes. Even children can understand this shit, you guys make me howl.

De-programmed?

No matter how many times you tell them different they still come back with leftie! I could be standing on their right and they would still see me on their left. This proves you are all one in the same stupid dolt. Under the name maestro, as I mentioned a few weeks ago, there can't be this many stupid people here all at the same time. The odds would be astronomical. My calculator doesn't go that far! I could bash you directly in the face with the cartoon frying pan a thousand times and you would still say "Left, please sir may I have another." KABANG! "Left, please sir may I have another..." A thousand times, maybe more. Consider yourself exposed maestro/flattax/elliot/climber... you pathetic blowhard.

Deluded

Club of Rome, put down the crack pipe, I refuse the label of right or left. Prochoice, anti-death penalty, pro-seal hunt, pro-logging, anti-Bush, pro-American people. All over the map, I calls 'em as I sees 'em. Quit the b.s. and talk about gravel.

Well - on the gravel thing

Seems to me I read this in the column:

"Farmers have found out that they can't make an honest living out of selling apples any longer, so they've decided to turn their farms into gravel pits."

Did you miss that climber? Seems to me that tearing up agricultural land and turning it into gravel pits is something someone ought to be concerned about.

As a fellow with no pre-set agendas I'm surprised you didn't notice.

Have you been following the other articles about mining and provincial regulations as well?

This seems to me more than just a question of a few people complaining about noise and dust, eh!

A fair minded balanced individual like you wouldn't want to come down too hard on one side of an issue before you'd checked out the facts, right?

Wrong!

What elludes you and almost all of your Pepsi generation is respect. You don't get it by asking for it. You can't buy it, nor can you barge into a room and shout or demand it. You can earn it though, but it takes time. You start by giving it away. Sayings like you never judge a book by it's cover are woven into this fabric. You can be cocky and confident without pissing off your elders, but it's becoming a lost art. It's what separtates people from junk yard dogs. All bark and no comprehension is what we get from maestro, and from some of your early remarks you don't have much room for error. That is if you want to debate intelligently. We'll know when you're trying to be funny, but please try to understand what makes people act and behave the way they do. It's critical to understand this to get along in the world. Then at the end of the day when you can't see eye to eye, then nothing works better than a good old fashioned fuck you contest! Then it's over. I think you'll find more creative partners in bed here than maestro. Please tell me you'll aim higher than that...

Under Chief Louie...

...rule, does everyone get an equal share?

ooops...wrong thread

sorry...

Shipping Aggregate to California ? :

( While G WEST diligently finds a link to both corroborate and condemn this and tie it to Global Warming, Afghanistan and Neo -con ism )

Hey.

Let me guess, that progessive First Nations band up around Sechelt/Sunshine Coast area ,who run a gravel/aggregate extraction enterprise. I'll bet they are in on this market.

Hope they are ...and GOOD for them if they are, you racist Lefties.

G West: Good One !!!!

Good one, .....it shows you are paying attention.

Re: Farmers can't make an honest living....etc. etc. so they turn their farms into gravel pits etc etc.

So what do you propose, G. West ?
That's a good one for you to muse over.

Are YOU up to IT ?

PS: We are waiting.

Apples/Gravel

So they can make money selling gravel instead of apples, what is wrong with that? After the gravel is gone they can grow food again, or be hay fields or houses or whatever. I could pay $5lb. for apples, I like them and could afford that but I think others would have a problem with it. Now respect, Club of Rome, I have all kinds of respect for hardworking decent people, the kind that built this province. Not as much for the whiners who quickly organize to stop any logging, mining or development proposed in this province. Thank Christ W.A.C. made shit happen first, it would never happen now, the roads, the dams, they would never be built now. Never.

Land use issues are usually

Land use issues are usually local problems. Some questions I have that weren't answered in the article:

Why did the town allow development so close to mining sites? Did the residents inform themselves of staked mining claims in the area before buying? What have they done to try and solve the problem other than complaining?

There is an easy solution to the speeding trucks. Get a sympathetic cop to set up a speed trap and ticket every dump truck going 5 kms over the speed limit. Do safety checks as well. The industry average fail rate is something like 25%. Atleast you'll hurt them financially. You could even apply to get the speed limit lowered.

Let's see now.... What did

Let's see now.... What did they do before dredging? Hmm.... Take about 125 years of industrial impact on the area, compared to fossil records dating back over 140,000 years, carry the 10... and looks like it's a man made problem! How much dredging has ever really been done in the past that would even compare to the natural solution of a flood plain delta. So the "big picture" putting things in "perspective" is that we altered the natural state of what would be normal occuring regulating events, like floods, and I don't see any dykes of any size before we got here, and now we only have two choices? What about Holland? They have a slighlty bigger problem than we do and they are wondering if they might want to let the water in. Keeping it out is just beyond the scope of reality especially with rising sea levels predicted. Or without. Witness New Orleans. So the answer is halting development in risk areas and then trying to maintain what we have after a long and thoughtful study and plan for the future. Dredge and maintain dykes until it's beyond the risk assessment then you walk away. That's right I said walk away. See: New Orleans. There are limits to growth, it's a book, you can read all about it. While it needs a new edition with new dates, the principles are still solid. Once you understand the physical limitations of this planet to bath billions of human in gold and silver you'll see that we have a few other problems on the horizon the least of which will be protecting people living under the rising sea level. Once again politicians and other numbskulls will try and tell you this is a complex issue, all based on money and whose jurisdiction it is. Bull shit, the rules of life are not that complex. You have to get along with your neighbours. Not all of them are human. They include the ecology of rivers and forests and deltas. Humans tend to not see themselves as animals, we're somehow above nature and the consequences of our actions. Somebody stop me if this isn't making sense.... Lots of past cultures extinct, and we have lots in common with them. The scale is different that's all.
The politics and global economics fuel this ultimate crime wave as Ed calls and it's other victim is our life support system. Fish depletion, crop stores at all time lows, missing bees for pollination a few more years of drought/flood and we're looking at empty shelves down at super food mart, where the lowest price is the law.... El nino becomes more the norm and then sea levels rise some more. ah what the hell you've heard all this doom and gloom before. Never mind.

Like I said climber

Read some of the other journalism on the subject. And, if you don't know what's wrong with ruining ANY of the small amount of good agricultural land in this province then I hope you'll enjoy a bowl of stones with your milk and cookies before bed tonight.

WAC Bennett and dams is a non sequitur in this debate and so is the idea that anyone is suggesting we don't need construction aggregates. The question, and this is something I'm surprised you don't understand given your response to club, is one of balance.

I think this story and the other ones I've mentioned are examples of exactly how out of balance this province has become.

Now, either you want to have a rational civil discussion or you don't. Alternatively, you can play nasty music and call names to the maestro’s baton. The choice is up to you.

Chris H

This is an topic I know very little about, but the piece does address the issue of local input:

Under changes to legislation covering mining in B.C. passed in 2002, bureaucrats have little choice but to approve mining applications, Templeton said.

"This province is wide open for mining companies and operators to do any damn thing they want right now," Templeton said. "Absolutely anything. And there's no way whatsoever to stop them."

Regulations trimmed

A year after winning a landslide victory in the 2001 election, the Liberal government introduced legislation designed to "streamline processes and encourage mineral exploration by clarifying rights and cutting red tape."

The changes attracted little attention at the time.

Similar problems were encountered as a result of the cited legislative change in the other articles Tyee has published on the subject.

Sink in

Let in sink in climber, what you said, what I said. Maybe, just maybe we've over built? Just maybe a little bit... Do ya think?

New farmland

Did you guys here about the six or so sections (640 acres) of land the province is basically giving to farmers around Vanderhoof? The gently sloping land was logged of pine beetle wood, this new plan is to get food or hay production from it. If all this global warming bullshit comes to pass then more B.C. land will be good for farming. Always a silver lining, if you stop whining and lokk for it.

The funny thing climber

The funny thing is that it's actually you and the maestro who do most of the whining.

Take a quick tour back through a dozen of your own creations and you'll see what I mean.

Once again, slamming your interlocutor and dodging the issues.

G. West :

G West: = The " art " of the artful dodger. Ad hominem attack by default.

G West still can't answer a straight up question about farmers, apples and gravel pits . Actually there is a Win -Win solution, no actually many solutions to that issue, but it appears G West "The Brain" is STUMP-ed.

PS CLIMBER
Did you notice that as well ?
Tried to keep it simple for G West and all I saw was tap dancing. You sure didn't miss much when you were gone. ALSO: careful ...don't take C of R's bait. Just read their past posts in the TYEE archives. Started a contest but can't finish it.

You missed this?

Read some of the other journalism on the subject. And, if you don't know what's wrong with ruining ANY of the small amount of good agricultural land in this province then I hope you'll enjoy a bowl of stones with your milk and cookies before bed tonight.

and this, apparently:

WAC Bennett and dams is a non sequitur in this debate and so is the idea that anyone is suggesting we don't need construction aggregates. The question, and this is something I'm surprised you don't understand given your response to club, is one of balance.

I'd say that's as straight up as one can get, and not an ad hominem word among them.

Amazing innit?

Back to the subject

How much gravel can you put in a 3/4 ton pickup a) 1 yard b) 3 yards c) what is a yard. Answer is a, for sure, maybe a little more. So where is the gravel supposed to come from guys? Abbotsford?, oh, too close to people. The Sunshine Coast?, same thing. Way out in the bush?, you can't destroy the pristine wilderness etc. How about some ideas? Where the fuck is it going to come from? We are talking about aggregates remember?

O.F.F. Sakes....

Still dancing eh G West ?.

Suggestion: Either

(i) Wave the white flag or

(ii) Go into politics

....sky

BTW: Not a total loss, maybe some farmer who can't make an honest living (and won't try to make a dishonest one) will read this TYEE story and go Hmmmm.

" Old MacDonald had a farm

e-i-e-I-owe

and on his soon -to -be- EX- farm he is mining "gray gold"

e-i-e " he no -longer -owes "

with a backhoe here and a dump -truck there

here a client, there a client, everywhere some black ink...

etc. etc.

Straw men climber

Did you miss the part in my post about about 'balance' and the part about not suggesting we don't need construction aggregates?

My view we don't need gravel that badly, nor is it in such short supply that:
a) we need to develop 6 gravel pits w/in a 2km radius of ANYWHERE, and;
b) sacrifice good agricultural land for gravel, and;
c) that it should be possible to have a discussion about anything without resorting to that kind of language.

My view, it just weakens your case.

I don't dance maestro

I leave that to the fellow in the monkey suit waving the baton.

Awesome little tune Maestro.

Awesome little tune Maestro. Anyways, I am glad the gravel is sourced nearby (remember that 100 miles from home food deal?) I am also glad that farmers are making money with thier own pits. Nimby whiners, howling funny. We all have to share the good and the bad, can't get an omellette without breaking a few eggs and all those good old sayings. Again, where the fuck is it going to come from G.West?

Can't you read climber?

-six gravel pits in a 2 km radius.

-no local input allowed on mining and related issues

-no attempt to consult or to achieve a balance of valid but competing interests

Not once did I say shut any gravel pits down, not once did I say there was no need for construction aggregates.

All you do is stamp around in circles saying the same thing in ruder and ruder ways.

The simple point is that homeowners and property owners have a valid interest in what goes on in their neighbourhood and the current regime doesn't seem to understand that.

I can't make it any simpler. Just don't accuse me of having written things I haven't written, and, if you use language like that with me again I'm going to contact the editor. Civility doesn’t just apply between homeowners and the operators of gravel pits.

What? Going to get me

What? Going to get me banned?, Uhh, maybe I missed something but were you not using two names here at the same time? What happened about that?, and I was away for a while, what happened to the master of name calling and abuse, the Coyote? Did someone get him with a .22?

update

First of all the coyote has been banned.

You can read about it here:
http://thetyee.ca/Books/2007/01/31/Solidarity/

There never was a rule against posting with two labels - still isn't and I was far from the only one and certainly not the first. And I never hid it or denied it. Old news

You can read all about that here:

http://thetyee.ca/Views/Teacherdiaries/2007/02/27/BoyTrouble/

But, third point, I can't 'get' anyone banned and don't particularly want to, Coyote didn't get banned for language anyway as you'll see if you read the comments on that Glavin story.

Anyway, I think the whole idea of actually having a civil discussion where people discuss ideas (even if they disagree) is a lot more interesting that throwing mud and swearing. That's all. Basically I agree with you that we need to support industry and construction but we need to do it in a way that's respectful of others' needs and desires too. Right now in this province that simply is not happening.

My view, it's like you pissing in a bottle when you're working in a watershed.

Climber:

See:

Can't say I didn't warn you.
I envy ya too.

Ya missed a lot of action...most of it B.S.

The TYEE is being ambushed by "Those" types.
" They " can't debate...even when you spoon fed them to prime the pump...all they do is bait...but it backfires. Then they want to BAN you.

"G West" the TYEE organ grinder's minion-monkeys continually use foul language and
off colour comments, and still fed bananas. Good Leftie monkey.

BAN ?...don't sweat it, tired old threat.The TYEE would then collapse, as these types would be left to themselves and eventually either start cannibalizing each other or boring each other to death.

BTW, I have bought gravel for years from a small contractor in the BC Interior . Most of the land is crap, yet within the ALR. Anyone with any experience knows much of the surface land is crap " overburden " , glacial till, with gravel just below the surface.

If one wants good topsoil, they dig into the peat bog , mix in some sand and whatever barnyard manure they can scrape up. Still not great soil. The local rancher has called it quits. Whatever land is not crown forest is basically good for Hay only , one crop per year, big deal.

Apples are not a natural crop in many areas...simply an introduced species. If one likes apples...go grow your own, and let the farmer earn an HONEST " Non Plantation /Non Societal sharecropping" real living. Didn't Lincoln help ban slavery?

BTW G WEST, the answer to the Pop Quiz you failed (Again !) is not unlike any other mined property. Scrape off the so -called top soil, store it...mine the land, then place the topsoil back.
Start over(unless you uncover gold etc. Eureka !!!)

" Old MacDonald had a claim
e-i-e-I own a Rolls..."

Aha:

He said P*ssing !!! Hypocrite !!!

Should we BAN him-sky ?

I was quoting climber

No doubt he'll confirm it.

DO you ever stop dancing?

What I mean is that it is a gesture of respect

What I was trying to say is that it's a question of having respect for others needs and desires, for their hopes of living in any place peaceably with others who may have different kinds of jobs and interests. Somehow, we all have to get along, find a place to live and a way to make a living and have a decent shot at happiness.

To me that's what this story is all about.

Is it reasonable or unreasonable for people like this guy Templeton and his neighbours to expect that their needs and desires, their complaints and concerns will get a fair hearing?

Is it unreasonable for him and his neighbours to think they might have at least some nominal interest in what goes on with a few meters of their homes?

I don't think that's happening and this government is expecting the average citizen to bend too far to accommodate mines and gravel pits and asphalt, that's all.

More and more folks are noticing it every day - that they are not respected or honoured by the people in Victoria who are meant to be our servants. It's happening with BC Ferries, with the Justice system, with the environment, with development, with rapid transit, with the poor, especially with the handicapped the disabled. I ran into a blind woman in the store the other day who hasn’t had an increase in her disability pension (Provincial) since 1988. She has a guide dog that costs her several thousands of dollars a year and her provincial tax claim form for those expenses has been audited 3 times since 1990.

These ought to be good times, great times for all British Columbian but they're not. Far from it.

That's what I think this is about climber, respect. You show it when you play by the rules - even if you think the rules are silly, like 'pissing in the bottle'. Right now Gordon Campbell and his friends are refusing to piss in the bottle. That's all.

Instead, they're playing footsie with their friends and ignoring everyone else.

Simple.

My view. Moreover, no, I don't think 'everyone' makes valid points. In fact far from it.

Sybil

Is climber your redneck side maestro? Why don't you cancel all those other log ins and just use Sybil?

G West

Life in general has a continuum of past inequities that not only move forward to affect the present and future, they often compound as well as these inequities manifest themselves .

It's all catching up and coming to pass now...the potential was always there. Much of it is rooted via a complacent public letting others mind the store. Much of it is also self-induced ignorance and apathy.

I look at this Gravel Pit issue as a prime example of this. Years ago the Okanagan was a prime fruit growing area. Nowadays its a prime destination area for people to visit and reside in . That attracts people and impacts on the existing status quo. However, nothing illegal about that..its called times inevitably change and progress will ultimately happen.

The farmer who has likley lived and farmed there for years before the newcomers came can't make an "honest" living under the new status -quo, but this same farmer then enacts another existing law..the right to extract minerals ( in this case gravel) to feed the NEW status quo. Previous to this, there was no need to enact this pre-existing law and right to mine gravel.

Now someone moves into the area, which is also their right, but ironically , impacts the farmer, who now needs some sense of balance , which is achieved by also taking advantage of the opportunities which the new status - quo of progress create.

In other words...if you can't fight them, join them. Screw the apples, feed them gravel.

Problem is Templeton and other NIMBY types should more and more realize the potential that now exists, and plan accordingly. The fact that they came and stayed a while has ultimately changed the old playing field and they are, in fact, the authors of their own problem.

Old classic Catch - 22..if they didn't come,they wouldn't build it, there wouldn't be demand for gravel...but if they liked apple pie...and apple strudel...and apple fritters and apple cider...well you catch my drift.

to all whiners!

Same old, same old!
When you have nothing positive to say about a subject, and have no solution to a problem..........you start name-calling instead!

New idea:
If you have nothing to say, then shut the f*** up!
Get a hobby, have a life!

Club of Rome=racist/classist

C.o.R. uses the term redneck, a pejorative racist and classist label. Meaning ignorant, poor, white person. What an appaling double standard some of the "tolerant" and "progressives" have.

Dear Vermin

That's strange, you quoting a book of any kind. What dictionary are you using? The Aryan guide to English? Lets just see how far you go on the "Gay in Alberta" thread. It should start to get pretty nasty after you finish your first 6 pack of the day. But I digress, you don't need my help to expose your ignorance. Tell us, what else does your god tell you about life here on earth? Eye for an eye? Maybe you prefer to settle things outside when you can't win a debate? Do you like movies about gladiators?

Climber:

Just some more advice.
Ignore " the IT entity or entities " .

Way back when " IT " started what " IT " referred to as as an " F -U " contest. Just doesn't know when to quit, after IT got IT's ass kicked over and over. If you want to check it out...refer to the TYEE archives.

"It " and others are running around trolling to bait people posting on the TYEE to get them BANNED ...so advice is don't take the bait.

"It" types can't even think of an original thought...I used the " Sybil " reference way back to other TYEE posters who dual - identity post. It's getting more and more clear there are more dual (or triple or more) posters. You can I.D. most of them...as they often come out of the blue and contribute squat except more evidence of their ideology = ignorance.

Maybe you should take them out Logging...Lesson # 1: " How to start a Chainsaw "...tell them to squeeze the bar with the newly sharpened chain between their legs and pull hard on the cord...(no, not THAT one ! )

PS Now just be patient ....these " It " types will get all lathered- up and retort soon...oh boy....aka yaaaawwwwn.

Retort

King Kong of plagarism speaks! I feed you better than your mother!! You should be paying me royalties. The only original thought you've come up with is "Sky" or is it "Ski" and no one knows what it means you fool. You're right about one thing though, I'm baiting you for exposure. I could care less if you get banned, we like laughing at you taking the bait. Have another banana, and quit repeating everything I say.

Captain Howdy

Maestro and the climber are the best tag team duo since screwtape and wormwood.

Wild Bill and Jingles

Red Ryder and Little Beaver

I peese on the graves of your ancestors.

Hey Doc E-vole: What's up-sky ?

Correction ;

You and " IT " are I-T ,unchallenged and by default. Talk about posting coincidences. We don't want to know where you hide the banana, but we'll continue to laugh____ya'll ,but certainly not with ya'll .

Regards to Fat B*stard, Mini-thee-sky and rest of the Circus act.

By reason of insanity.

Just let it out, no judge would convict you! Abused since childhood, unloved, untouched. Ridiculed by everyone on the Tyee. Gotta take it's toll...

Spare us C-o-R-sky

No need to write your memoirs, its obvious .

Even Michael Jackson is scared to call you. Given your obvious distress, I won't spring the bad news about Santa.

reminds me of the clearcuts...

you used to see ! every where in B.C

like dragging the oceans ! like all the great ideas of the SIMPLE MINDED...

and talking about SIMPLE MINDS...HEY MAESTRO ,HOW YOU DOING ...STILL,PISSING OFF PEOPLE SMARTER THAN YOU ,I SEE.

it would be a GIGGLE,except for the fact,you really think you have something to say/offer.

well....A TROLL IS A TROLL IS A TROLLLLLLL

Hey Mr T.

Thomas IQ = - 49

Thanks for the Bio in the past.
It sure explained a lot.

My sympathies.

Waste of valuable time

Some of you who are blogging at this site are wasting a lot of time and energy entering boring, self-serving rhetoric and personality slamming comments. Why don't you do something constructive like writing letters to the editor, MLA's and MP's, attending forums and expressing intelligent views that will help to resolve some of the problems that we are facing. So much of this stuff is a load of horse dung and serves no purpose whatsoever, except making 2 or 3 of you feel like you are really important in this world! I, for one, am tired of reading your crap.

Posting

I don't know which is sadder; the stupidity of the right wing posters here, or the grandiose names chosen by these same individuals who apparently couldn't find their own backsides with both hands and a flashlight...

Do any of you honestly think that you will convince the other side by serial abuse? Name calling? Rants about "lefties"? If you don't like the subject matter here, go somewhere else. Like Jesusland. We'll be only too happy to swap future members of the KKK for nice atheist treehuggers....

CBC Interview

today,17th april/07,there was a good interview with CBC morning person MARION WHATSHERNAME and some dude from the area talking about the issue...

it is under the mining act...so no one has to be told SQUAT !!!! about anything

THAT'S RIGHT....THEY CAN JUST START DIGGING AND SCREW YOU,J.Q.PUBLIC AND YOU TOO JANE...

and the POLITICIANS SEEM TO THINK...IT'S ALRIGHT !!!!!!!!!!!!!

must be NEOCONS...CAUSE THE LIKE TO RAPE AND PILLAGE EVERYTHING THEY CAN GET THEIR DIRTY LITTLE HANDS ON..............

oooooops....gotta get back to work,can't stay any longer,that's the problem with being your own boss,you suffer the consequences really fast...not like a politician ,who won't be around for long and thinks only of SHORT TERM ideas that will benefit him/her/friends....

ciao babies .....gotta pay some taxes